S03.E12: I Am Abassin Zadran

[txhorns79]

I'm not sure what the point of the Abassin Zadran storyline was - to show just how little it takes to get dimwit mujahideen to turn on each other?

 

I think that's right.  The idea is to make the Mujahideen look unstable/crazy so the CIA will withdraw their support for them, which would make them easier for the Soviets to defeat. 

[John S]

On Mad Men, I believe that Kiernan Shipka will one day be a star.

On The Americans, I believe that Holly Taylor will one day be a star. Her abilities, at both verbal and nonverbal communication, are fantastic.

It's sad that they make previews so deceptive. I so wanted to see who was going to end up in handcuffs. MAYBE that will be next week. I thought that it might be Paige as a "punishment" for acting out but that didn't happen.

That WAS creepy when Philip pulled off his wig.

[RedHawk]

Does anyony else think that POV shot from the hallway was a sign that Henry overheard Paige talking with P&E in their bedroom? He's way too clever and curious not to have figured out that something is off with Paige.

I don't think Martha is on her way out, yet. Philip feels some loyalty to her and I think her story of the girl who left her small town for a life in the big city got to him.

If Paige does drop the church in favor of more typical teen rebellion I may get that 9:30 Club scene I've been dreaming of.

Edited April 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[John S]

After being "spoiled" in the U.S. for almost 20 years, I wonder if Elizabeth will enjoy life in the Soviet Union again.

I find it hard to believe that Paige would like it there.

[DrSpaceman]

Well I have been somewhat defending pastor Tim so far, but having Paige stay at his house overnight just shouldnt happen, even if her parents knew. 

 

So......wow, did not expect that ending.  I am trying to remember, obviously Martha knows Clark is not clark, but does she know he is Phillip, and that he is friends with Stan?  I can't recall if she would be able to make that connection or not. 

 

Pretty now Martha is all in, she I would imagine either has to conspire with Elizabeth and Phillip, just disappear out of the country to never return, in which case I think the KGB would be all over her and likely targeting her for death, or just be killed by Elizabeth and Phillip.  I can't see any other way for her. 

[solargal]

I didn't see anyone mention this yet.  After Stan and Aderholt finished talking, did anyone else hear the mail robot?  I watched it twice and to make sure I heard it.  I think they were standing in the hallway, not in the safe room, and the robot was in the hallway next to them, altho it wasn't shown.  Meanwhile, Oleg and the other Russian woman talk Arkady into keeping Project Zephyr going, which means they will eventually read the conversation between Stan and Aderholt and find out that the bug in the pen was found.  Or does the Center already know that.  I thought Philip and Elizabeth didn't tell anyone the bug was found.

[DrSpaceman]

Just taking a shot in the dark here for discussion......if Paige goes to Russia with Elizabeth, does she return to the US?  If I am the KGB and I know there is this type of big problem with Paige, my solution is you get her to Russia and you don't let her go back to the US.  And does Elizabeth know of this plan if its in place?  Phillip I can't imagine going along with it, so its the perfect situation to have Elizabeth and Paige go back, Elizabeth goes along, they have a short trip than at the end elizabeth tells Paige she is staying in Russia/Soviet Union

[John S]

Just taking a shot in the dark here for discussion......if Paige goes to Russia with Elizabeth, does she return to the US?  If I am the KGB and I know there is this type of big problem with Paige, my solution is you get her to Russia and you don't let her go back to the US.  And does Elizabeth know of this plan if its in place?  Phillip I can't imagine going along with it, so its the perfect situation to have Elizabeth and Paige go back, Elizabeth goes along, they have a short trip than at the end elizabeth tells Paige she is staying in Russia/Soviet Union

Would Paige be a prisoner, locked in a jail cell, locked in a hotel room, unable to move without an escort, or what?

If Elizabeth were to do something like that, HOW could she ever feel that Elizabeth was her mother? Paige would HATE her for the rest of her life.

Edited April 16, 2015 by John S

[RedHawk]

I noticed that Elizabeth has dropped her "Michelle" persona around Maurice and Lisa. She speaks in her normal voice and gives Lisa directions in the way only a pro would. Lisa's aware that "Michelle" was a cover. I won't mind at all when Elizabeth drops a car on Maurice. I hope Lisa gets out of it ok because all she ever did was try to be a good AA sponsor to Michelle.

 

When Martha met with Clark after Hans dropped her off, Clark said, "We may have to go away somewhere... somewhere new." He's still doing the Clark persona and trying to convince her that he's going to get her out and they will be together. That was sad for me, and yet I think Philip will try to find a way to extract her and give her a new life. Maybe it will be a life in Russia, but she'll be alive. My impression is that he feels some responsibility for conning her so deeply (marriage!) and putting her in a situation where she could lose everything. 

 

After Stan and Aderholt spoke in the conference room, and Stan told him to look elsewhere, in the background I heard the mailbot beeping! Ha! I don't think it could pick up their conversation as they were too far away, but the next shot was of those women typing up transcripts of the mailbot's recordings. 

 

I love Oleg and I don't care who knows it! When he re-enacted the conversation about "The King of Comedy" that the mailbot picked up I was laughing so hard. Tatiana is also growing on me. Arkady was really, "Are you joking?" Love the Rezidentura.

Would Paige be a hostage, locked in a jail cell, locked in a hotel room, unable to move without an escort, or what?

 

 

What would that achieve for the Center? How would Paige possibly want to spy for Mother Russia when they treated her that way? It doesn't at all line up with the scenario of "she's an American citizen, can get a top secret clearance, we'll use her that way" that would make sense.

 

I'm also skeptical that seeing her dying Grandma would make Paige feel any connection with Russia or the Soviet Union. Are P&E even thinking? Sure, they've seen plenty of death but slow death by cancer is not pretty. Paige is going to see an old woman very ill and in pain, or totally out on pain medication. None of it seems likely to me, although the show may do it in an interesting way. 

[DrSpaceman]

I don't think they would have to lock Paige up anywhere.  How would she get away to go anywhere?  Where would she go in Russia and what would she do?  She couldn't get back to america without a passport.  She knows no one there.  She has no money.  I don't think she would be physically locked up, but just put in a house/apartment somewhere, watched by the KGB and they could work her over psychologically for awhile.  I don't think there is any chance of her spying for russian anytime soon so that would not be the intent.  The intent for the time being would be to make sure she doesn't blab to anyone in america about her parents

[RedHawk]

I'm not sure what the point of the Abassin Zadran storyline was - to show just how little it takes to get dimwit mujahideen to turn on each other?

 

 

And I guess so we could see that nothing has changed in Afghanistan in 30+ years, and that we went into a destroyed country and destroyed it even further, and that tribalism and codes of honor and such were as confounding to the Soviets as they are to us. Also, we got to watch Philip and Elizabeth keep calm as Abassin gloated about cutting the throats of young Soviet soldiers (Misha, anyone?) after they swam in a river. Whew, I'm sure they were itching to break every bone in his body.

If Elizabeth wants to "prove" anything to Paige, why doesn't she just let her listen to a tape? She could translate what her mother is saying. I think that would be a huge emotional moment and forge a connection that going on a clandestine trip to Russia never could.

 

Henry totally knows what's going on. Not only do we have Martha's Chekovian gun, we have Henry's hidden key to that apartment Philip had. I wonder if that ever will come into play.

[RedHawk]

I think another moment that made Paige angry was when Pastor Tim mentioned the information Philip had sent over about the Africa trip. Paige is standing there knowing that the travel agency is just a cover, and just another lie. She's angry about the lies and wants to know how deep they go. Her world has been shattered. Keep in mind, she is not asking to meet Grandma, P&E are thinking that will help her reconnect with them.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not sure the writers would risk having Paige kept in Russia after her grandma visit, but it is one option.  The Stockholm Syndrome could work.  She is held by her captors and over time identifies with them and even commits crimes for them.  Like Patricia Hearst, but on a more organized scale.  The only other option I see is that they put Paige into a hypnotic trance and erase any memory of what she has been told about her parents being spies.  lol I know that sounds extreme, but how else do they get out of this pickle of a situation?  

 

I've never cared for Paige. I"m not sure if it's the character or the actress that I don't care for, but now her mouth is driving me crazy.  I don't care how angry she may be.  Her bratty attitude and smart mouth really annoy me.   I don't really mind the idea of her staying behind in Russia.  I guess her parents could explain that she's at boarding school, though, I could see Pastor Tim trying to go visit her.  That is if he makes it back alive from his trip to Africa.  Wink wink.

 

If Philip and Elizabeth didn't get the freaky vibe when Pastor Tim, Paige and the cover wife got out of the car, then they are the dumbest spies on the planet, IMO.  I hope they deal with him as soon as they put the Paige fire out.  He has to be after her for some unnatural reason.  I know a Pastor who used to allow kids to spend the night with him. He's on parole now and on the register list.  

 

Can someone please tell me why Granny was so snappy with the waitress?  Did I miss something.  Okay, she wanted tea. Why bite the girl's head off?

 

I sure do hope they create some way for Martha to survive.  I want her to stay on the show.  Can they keep her and Stan both on the show?  If Martha's parents became ill and needed her, that would be a good cover story, but it would have to be legit since the FBI would certainly check it out.  Well.....I guess they would. Who knows with this group. 

[ToastnBacon]

Does anyony else think that POV shot from the hallway was a sign that Henry overheard Paige talking with P&E in their bedroom? He's way too clever and curious not to have figured out that something is off with Paige.

I don't think Martha is on her way out, yet. Philip feels some loyalty to her and I think her story of the girl who left her small town for a life in the big city got to him.

If Paige does drop the church in favor of more typical teen rebellion I may get that 9:30 Club scene I've been dreaming of.

Was the 9:30 Club around back then?

I think the wildest DC club scene during that era was Tracks. Although it was primarily a gay bar, they had college nights and mix nights.

Plus, it was right across the street from a covert CIA/NPIC building. During the Cold War it was simply referred to as Building 913, but everyone in the area knew it was a super secret CIA building, it was were they analyzed imagery from spy satellites.

[RedHawk]

Pretty now Martha is all in, she I would imagine either has to conspire with Elizabeth and Phillip,

 

 

I agree that she's all in. Taking a quote the film Gorky Park, which came out in 1984, she might as well say, "Clark, you are my only country now." She may not quite be there yet, but her phone call to her parents was a "just in case you never hear from me again" contact. She may not feel certain she's in mortal danger -- or she didn't until the wig came off -- but she knows she can't stay in DC, maybe not even in the U.S. 

 

Was she really going to her parents' house? I think maybe she was just doing that to show Clark she was serious about wanting to get out, and maybe see if he would allow it. She could have left, called in to work that she had to take emergency leave because of a parent's illness, and got on the next plane. Edited to add: But then, she knows she would have to return to her job sometime, because if she just quit suddenly (even with "sick parent" as an excuse) Stan would really be suspicious and have her investigated. 

 

I keep remembering that Martha, while loyal to the USA and the FBI, also has embedded in her memory that conversation where Stan and Gaad called her ugly and laughed at her. She is much more loyal to "Clark" and has been ever since he played that (altered) tape for her. She thought at the time that she was helping him to "oversee" her department and she willingly did it for him and their marriage. Now she knows it was way more than that, and that she has betrayed her country. He's the only hope she has.

Edited April 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[ToastnBacon]

@SunnyBeBe

Granny had just finished commenting that Americans have too many choices, then the waitress starts rattling off their tea list.

Granny was more annoyed at American culture than the waitress.

Edited April 16, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[RedHawk]

Can someone please tell me why Granny was so snappy with the waitress?  Did I miss something.  Okay, she wanted tea. Why bite the girl's head off?

 

 

The waitress started to list choices of tea, and Grannie and Gabriel had just been discussing how the U.S. had too many choices for everything, so she was annoyed. I thought, geez Grannie, at least specify if you want a black (caffeine) tea or an herbal tea. Back then there were maybe three choices for tea at a diner like that anyway. "Earl Grey"? Not likely. Lipton all the way, or some similar brand.

Was the 9:30 Club around back then?

I think the wildest DC club scene during that era was Tracks. Although it was primarily a gay bar, they had college nights and mix nights.

Plus, it was right across the street from a covert CIA/NPIC building. During the Cold War it was simply referred to as Building 913, but everyone in the area knew it was a super secret CIA building, it was were they analyzed imagery from spy satellites.

 

 

It sure was, and was as wild as or wilder than Tracks. The 9:30 was also around the block from the FBI building. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[soapfaninnc]

While I think Paige is acting like a typical teenage girl would - given the circumstances of finding out much of her life as she knew it is a complete and utter lie - I cannot suspend disbelief any longer about special snowflake Elizabeth. She's still getting exactly what she wants - and after she was about to put her hand - her murdering hands - over her child's mouth - her utter amazement that her child could possibly not fully embrace communism just because Mom said so.....

 

Sorry, I just can't any longer. Especially since Martha is probably going to die. It also makes zero sense to me that the Center wants the Paige thing to move more quickly? WTF for? 

 

Justified just ended - as a show should have - despite a lackluster season 5. I can't help but contrast this one - that started out with a lot of promise - then became the Elizabeth aka Betty Sue show to me. I just don't get it. I can't stay faithful to a show where Elizabeth always gets what she wants when she's a selfish, idealistic, bitch who yells at her husband that he had no right to tell her how to handle HER own daughter. She's Phillip's daughter too and frankly, Elizabeth is handling Paige exactly the wrong way but still getting everything she wants. Now she gets to take Paige back home to meet her sainted mother and I'm sure that will turn out rainbows and kittens and sunshine. Because that's the way it works for Elizabeth. 

 

Ugh.

[John S]

I don't think they would have to lock Paige up anywhere.  How would she get away to go anywhere?  Where would she go in Russia and what would she do?  She couldn't get back to america without a passport.  She knows no one there.  She has no money.  I don't think she would be physically locked up, but just put in a house/apartment somewhere, watched by the KGB and they could work her over psychologically for awhile.  I don't think there is any chance of her spying for russian anytime soon so that would not be the intent.  The intent for the time being would be to make sure she doesn't blab to anyone in america about her parents

If Elizabeth would do this to her, she would hate Elizabeth for the rest of her life - and probably her father also.

I'm not sure the writers would risk having Paige kept in Russia after her grandma visit, but it is one option.  The Stockholm Syndrome could work.  She is held by her captors and over time identifies with them and even commits crimes for them.  Like Patricia Hearst, but on a more organized scale.  The only other option I see is that they put Paige into a hypnotic trance and erase any memory of what she has been told about her parents being spies.  lol I know that sounds extreme, but how else do they get out of this pickle of a situation?  

 

I've never cared for Paige. I"m not sure if it's the character or the actress that I don't care for, but now her mouth is driving me crazy.  I don't care how angry she may be.  Her bratty attitude and smart mouth really annoy me.   I don't really mind the idea of her staying behind in Russia.  I guess her parents could explain that she's at boarding school, though, I could see Pastor Tim trying to go visit her.  That is if he makes it back alive from his trip to Africa.  Wink wink.

 

If Philip and Elizabeth didn't get the freaky vibe when Pastor Tim, Paige and the cover wife got out of the car, then they are the dumbest spies on the planet, IMO.  I hope they deal with him as soon as they put the Paige fire out.  He has to be after her for some unnatural reason.  I know a Pastor who used to allow kids to spend the night with him. He's on parole now and on the register list.  

 

Can someone please tell me why Granny was so snappy with the waitress?  Did I miss something.  Okay, she wanted tea. Why bite the girl's head off?

 

I sure do hope they create some way for Martha to survive.  I want her to stay on the show.  Can they keep her and Stan both on the show?  If Martha's parents became ill and needed her, that would be a good cover story, but it would have to be legit since the FBI would certainly check it out.  Well.....I guess they would. Who knows with this group.

So just HOW should Paige act?

[gwhh]

Once, again does not the ENTIRE intelligence/law enforcement community of the USA not have ONE safe house to store there important guest in!

I am sure the KGB got a whole army of safe houses to store there "guest" in when needed!!

[crashdown]

Justified just ended - as a show should have - despite a lackluster season 5. I can't help but contrast this one - that started out with a lot of promise - then became the Elizabeth aka Betty Sue show to me. I just don't get it. I can't stay faithful to a show where Elizabeth always gets what she wants when she's a selfish, idealistic, bitch who yells at her husband that he had no right to tell her how to handle HER own daughter. She's Phillip's daughter too and frankly, Elizabeth is handling Paige exactly the wrong way but still getting everything she wants. Now she gets to take Paige back home to meet her sainted mother and I'm sure that will turn out rainbows and kittens and sunshine. Because that's the way it works for Elizabeth.

 

 

If you're expecting puppies and rainbows, you're certainly watching a different show from the electrifying one that I'm watching.  There's nothing about any of this that will end happily for ANY of these characters, including Elizabeth.  it's all very dark and hopeless, not the least because of the fact that the Soviet Union will be falling in a mere eight years.  Neither Elizabeth nor Philip will be getting exactly what they want, or even ANYTHING that they want.  

[RedHawk]

It also makes zero sense to me that the Center wants the Paige thing to move more quickly? WTF for?

 

 

I feel this way as well. What could Paige do for the Center at this point in her life? It's a big WTF for me. They are seriously screwing it up (again!) by wanting to push their "asset". But I guess that's part of the story. The KGB aren't infallible. They're making the same mistake again, just in a different way. 

 

Yes, Paige made it happen sooner than Philip wanted and now he and Elizabeth are handling the fallout. What WAS Elizabeth's plan, if she'd had time for a slow reveal? 

 

That said, I'm still loving this show.

Edited April 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[SailorGirl]

Here's what I'm wondering about Martha. Do her parents live in the DC area? Is she still going to go to work every day, just from her parents' house? If she decides to "take vacation" in the midst of all of this and within a day or two of Stan visiting her and making it clear he suspects her, its going to be pretty obvious that she feels guilty about something, and that will put the spotlight on her even more. 

If her parents live in the area and she's planning on still going to work and is staying with them only to be away from Clark for a bit, then okay, that's understandable. 

 

Edited April 16, 2015 by SailorGirl

[RedHawk]

Here's what I'm wondering about Martha. Do her parents live in the DC area?

 

 

No, they live far away. I think somewhere in the Midwest or farther. Wasn't there some mention of their house "at the end of a dirt road"? Small town, rural it seemed. 

 

Martha mentioned to her mom that she has 21 days of leave. She may be calculating that she has 21 days before the FBI (Stan) starts to look into whether her story of why she would go to her parents suddenly was real. I think a sudden absence would tip him anyway and he'd be checking up on her in his "friendly coworker" guise.

 

She knows her options are so very limited. That's why she'll do whatever Clark tells her.

Edited April 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[bluebonnet]

Yeah, I really don't get that. I think that your life is what you know. If it turned out that I was adopted, and my biological parents were not the people who raised me and whom I loved,  I honestly think that I would have no interest in meeting my real parents. Why would Paige be interested in meeting her biological grandmother? It baffles me. And really, why does it matter to Paige if Henry is her biological brother? He is the guy she loves, the person she agreed to never tell her parents about his fear of being eaten by a bear on that trip. She has certain feelings for Henry whatever he is. Would anything change if she learned he is not her biological brother?

I think you underestimate how much people want to know about their biological history.  Humans have been obsessed with lineages since the dawn of time.  Furthermore, this situation with Paige isn't really comparable to finding out one was adopted (and adoptees often seek out their biological family).  Adoption is something that's acceptable.  People grow up knowing that adoption exists and that it's a good, positive thing.  

 

Russian spies are completely different.  All of Paige's life has been spent learning that the Soviet Union is bad bad bad, Russian spies are bad bad bad bad.  Not only have her parents lied to her, but they are also the sort of people that she's been indoctrinated to think are super extremely bad, the enemy of enemies.  I imagine it would be like learning your parents were high-ranking nazis or high-ranking jihadists or some version of what we define as really terribly horribly bad people.  Paige's reaction is completely normal, might even be a little too calm.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I think I could sympathize with Paige if she seemed to be afraid and cautious.  Her flippant, in your face, I don't care who hears me witching doesn't ring true to me. With this kind of news, I would imagine a more toned down and careful approach, not, smarty pants.  Her repeated insistence that she talks loudly when Henry could over hear, tells me that she may be hellbent on exposing her parents.  IMO, the warning of her parents going to prison, doesn't bother her that much.  That's my take on it. Perhaps, her teen mind is not capable of absorbing the implications of her behavior.  But, whatever the reason, I'm over her and really would appreciate seeing less of her and more of the rest of the family.  

[RedHawk]

Hey, anyone want to bet that if this (what I still believe improbable) trip to Russia actually happens that just as Elizabeth and Paige are leaving the house Henry walks up with his knapsack and says, "If you're taking her to Russia then you're taking me, too."? Fanwank all the way, but I'd LOVE to see how Philip and Elizabeth would handle that!

[DrSpaceman]

I also don't understand why the center is wanting to move so quickly with Paige, especially given what happened with the prior recruit, ended up killing his family

 

I also don't understand how they don't have a more detailed plan or strategy for recruiting the kids and telling them about what their parents do, again given what happened last season especially.  Just seems to be kind of "Well if they ask, tell them as little as possible and see how it goes"

 

Still, all that really has become beside the point now with Paige.  The question is how best to deal with her and minimize her potential interfernce with the team in place.  And if I am in charge of that decision, what I see as the best chance is keeping her in Russia for the time being once she is there with her mother. 

 

Maybe Elizabeth stays too. Maybe they both stay and Elizabeth, isolated from Phillip, works on recruiting over to the Russian side as a spy. 

[AGuyToo]

I don't think they would have to lock Paige up anywhere.  How would she get away to go anywhere?  Where would she go in Russia and what would she do?  She couldn't get back to america without a passport.  She knows no one there.  She has no money.  I don't think she would be physically locked up, but just put in a house/apartment somewhere, watched by the KGB and they could work her over psychologically for awhile.  I don't think there is any chance of her spying for russian anytime soon so that would not be the intent.  The intent for the time being would be to make sure she doesn't blab to anyone in america about her parents

 

If the KGB were to prevent Paige from leaving Russia, they would certainly lose P & E for good. A lot of the tension in this show comes from the idea that, dedicated as they are, P & E love their children more than their country. I can't see either one going along with a plan to kidnap Paige.

 

Also, lots of other people know Paige (Henry, Stan, Pastor Tim). How would they explain that she suddenly disappeared without saying goodbye to anybody? I don't think even Henry would buy that. And Pastor Tim knows that there have been problems between Paige and her parents. If she disappeared without a word, I'm pretty sure he'd go straight to the cops.

[ToastnBacon]

If you're expecting puppies and rainbows, you're certainly watching a different show from the electrifying one that I'm watching.  There's nothing about any of this that will end happily for ANY of these characters, including Elizabeth.  it's all very dark and hopeless, not the least because of the fact that the Soviet Union will be falling in a mere eight years.  Neither Elizabeth nor Philip will be getting exactly what they want, or even ANYTHING that they want.

For some reason your post made me think of the U.S. Serviceman who defected to East Germany in the 1980s.

He had been a German linguist for the USAF in West Berlin before he defected. He started working for East German intelligence after he defected, he translated scripts of radio intercepts for them, and was awarded several medals from the East German government.

The night the Berlin Wall came down, FBI agents were outside his apartment photographing him watching the celebration with this damn big frown on his face.

He was in custody within a couple of days. I'm pretty sure he is still in Fort Leavenworth.

When this show ends, I hope they flash forward to show us how the survivors are living in the 1990s.

[RedHawk]

I think you underestimate how much people want to know about their biological history.  Humans have been obsessed with lineages since the dawn of time.  Furthermore, this situation with Paige isn't really comparable to finding out one was adopted (and adoptees often seek out their biological family).  Adoption is something that's acceptable.  People grow up knowing that adoption exists and that it's a good, positive thing.

All of Paige's life has been spent learning that the Soviet Union is bad bad bad, Russian spies are bad bad bad bad.  Not only have her parents lied to her, but they are also the sort of people that she's been indoctrinated to think are super extremely bad, the enemy of enemies.  I imagine it would be like learning your parents were high-ranking nazis or high-ranking jihadists or some version of what we define as really terribly horribly bad people.

 

 

While I totally agree with the first part, I can't give thumbs up to the rest of the post. I don't agree that Paige has grown up thinking the Soviet Union and Soviet spies are bad bad bad and comparable to how we saw Nazis then or terrorists today. I was born in 1962 and never felt that way about the USSR. We were not "indoctrinated". I studied Russian in college -- many educated people already knew that the Soviet Union was collapsing economically and was a shithole where the citizens were miserable. '50s era blacklisting was an embarrassment from the past. Fallout shelters and duck-and-cover were jokes to us. Our impression of Russian spies was Boris and Natasha!

 

Most of my generation weren't afraid of b-b-b-bombing (anyone remember that Regan open mic gaffe?) until Raygun Ronnie came up with the "Evil Empire" moniker and conservatives grabbed hold of it. Many of us were less afraid of the Soviet Union than Regan's policies. "The Day After" and all that nuclear panic was mid '80s, not '70s when Paige was a kid and the Cuban Crisis was a distant memory. The anti-nuke movement was indeed about getting rid of the danger of mutually assured destruction but also the danger of meltdowns and nuclear waste. 

 

Edited to add: Regan's Evil Empire speech was in March 1983 and "The Day After" was released in November 1983. What I'm saying is that anti-Soviet doctrine did not saturate the media when Paige was a child and young teen as it's about to now. In the story, the date is late February 1983. We saw a TV ad for the finale of MASH, which was February 28, 1983.

 

Edited April 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[Latverian Diplomat]

I had a feeling Philip might take off his wig but still, big moment that delivered.  There's a LOT of maintenance to keep that wig on.  I'm not sure what Philip's play here is.  He doesn't love Martha but he definitely wants to keep her safe.  

 

I think he *will* kill her.  I saw a lot of sadness in him as he took off his disguise--he's being forced to do something that he does not want to do.  I agree that his taking off his disguise would be partially a matter of respect, but I think he also would want to spare Martha the horror of being killed by someone she thought she knew and loved. 

Cynical me, I was thinking "Is it just hard to get blood out of a wig?" 

 One a more serious note, Martha's parents are kind of a problem too, aren't they?

 

Just taking a shot in the dark here for discussion......if Paige goes to Russia with Elizabeth, does she return to the US?  If I am the KGB and I know there is this type of big problem with Paige, my solution is you get her to Russia and you don't let her go back to the US.  And does Elizabeth know of this plan if its in place?  Phillip I can't imagine going along with it, so its the perfect situation to have Elizabeth and Paige go back, Elizabeth goes along, they have a short trip than at the end elizabeth tells Paige she is staying in Russia/Soviet Union

I think having your teenage daughter disappear is pretty tough to explain. People will ask questions, not something they would want.

 

The stuff with Hans is to show that they can train new operatives in the field.

[gwhh]

What kind of car was Hans driving when he dropped Martha off to meet Phillip?

[SunnyBeBe]

They can always say that Paige went away to boarding school.  And Pastor Tim doesn't have to stay around. He could be eaten by lions or encounter a head on car collision.  And Paige could always send a letter to her girlfriends saying that she's attending school abroad to concentrate on missionary work. She could be enticed to write the letters or they could be forged by the Centre.  It's an option to get her out of Elizabeth and Philip's hair, (pardon the pun), so I'll buy in to it. 

[DrSpaceman]

Its not tough to come up with an explanation as to why Paige would not be back in DC if she stayed in russia.  Heck that is the easy part.  She wouldn't disappear.  They could just say she went off somewhere to school, she decided to go live with a relative for personal problems (which, technically, would not be a lie), she joined some overseas year long mission associated for religous reasons, I can come up with any number of plausible explanations.  They wouldn't just have her disappear with no reason.  Plus everyone pretty much knows she is unhappy where she is, so its completely believable and not out of nowhere. 

 

If the KGB were to prevent Paige from leaving Russia, they would certainly lose P & E for good. A lot of the tension in this show comes from the idea that, dedicated as they are, P & E love their children more than their country. I can't see either one going along with a plan to kidnap Paige.

 

Also, lots of other people know Paige (Henry, Stan, Pastor Tim). How would they explain that she suddenly disappeared without saying goodbye to anybody? I don't think even Henry would buy that. And Pastor Tim knows that there have been problems between Paige and her parents. If she disappeared without a word, I'm pretty sure he'd go straight to the cops.

 

They might lose Phillip, but I disagree about Elizabeth.  I can completely see her buying into such a plan. 

 

Elizabeth is just extremely high risk right now with what she knows and is proving to be volatile.  I don't think just talking and gently cajoling her to "shut up and fly right" is going to work with her. 

[RedHawk]

One a more serious note, Martha's parents are kind of a problem too, aren't they?

 

 

Philip gave her a strange look when she said she'd called them. He realized, yup, now he has to deal with them, too. But I don't think that means "kill them", just that she's added a layer of complication to the whole situation. 

 

In some ways, I think Martha is being very smart in the way she's dealing with Clark/Philip. She handled Stan calmly and well. (I guess she was staring at his nose.) Letting Clark know that she's recently talked to her parents -- and she did mention that things are "not easy" with Clark -- may be a way of tipping him that she's leaving clues if she disappears. And we saw, she does have a wedding photo!

Speaking of: I liked that we got a clear shot of her left hand on the table when Stan was visiting. No, she wasn't wearing her wedding ring. Then we saw the wedding photo in the drawer. I wonder, has she stopped putting on the ring as soon as she gets home? Did she put the photo in the drawer soon after she realized Clark was not who he said he was? It's possible that she has to "buzz" people into her building via a security door so when she knew it was Stan she had time to hide the photo and ring, but I wondered about that. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by RedHawk

[TimWil]

That looked an awful lot like an East German checkpoint in the preview. I do think my hunch that the rendezvous would happen in East Germany and not Russia might hold up!

I totally agree that US schoolchildren weren't generally taught that the Soviet Union was "bad." I grew up in a suburb of New York in the 1970s and never got that impression in my Social Studies classes. I was fascinated by totalitarian regimes, though, and loved looking at back issues of Life magazine. I also vaguely remember a book of photographs called The Soviet Union Today.

Edited April 16, 2015 by TimWil

[ToastnBacon]

Well I have been somewhat defending pastor Tim so far, but having Paige stay at his house overnight just shouldnt happen, even if her parents knew. 

 

I've suspected him as a pervert child molester from the start, and this is just another plank to add to the platform.

I can't wait to see Phillip mess him up.

Phillip already can't stand him, but if he tries to put the moves on Paige. It will be a great ending to his story line.

I'm hoping for something better than the carving fork that he jammed in the thigh of the pervert from season one.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yes, but I think that Philip will have to be very careful of how Pastor Tim is handled.  If murdered, it could lead to an investigation and they would likely take a hard look at the fact he's so involved with a teenage girl.  Thus, looking into the Jennings family, which should be avoided at all costs.  That's why I think that an accident in Africa would make more sense.  

[ToastnBacon]

About Martha's parents:

Would they only be able to give crappy descriptions for another police artist sketch of P&E, or was a camera pulled out at somepoint during their wedding?

Hard to believe that there wouldn't be at least a Polaroid or two of their ceremony.

Also, wasn't Granny at the wedding too?

[shura]

I think another moment that made Paige angry was when Pastor Tim mentioned the information Philip had sent over about the Africa trip. Paige is standing there knowing that the travel agency is just a cover, and just another lie.

 

I thought the travel agency was real? They use it as a cover, but it's a real business, employing regular, non-spy people and selling trips and tickets to actual clients.

 

I am sure the KGB got a whole army of safe houses to store there "guest" in when needed!!

 

The KGB has a different business model - they use their agents' actual houses for the purpose. The houses also double as dental offices when needed.

 

I think I could sympathize with Paige if she seemed to be afraid and cautious.  Her flippant, in your face, I don't care who hears me witching doesn't ring true to me. With this kind of news, I would imagine a more toned down and careful approach, not, smarty pants.  Her repeated insistence that she talks loudly when Henry could over hear, tells me that she may be hellbent on exposing her parents.  IMO, the warning of her parents going to prison, doesn't bother her that much.

 

True. Does she or does she not want to expose them? If she does, then go and tell someone, what's with the half-measures? And if she does not, or isn't sure yet whether she does, then why doesn't it occur to Paige that yelling secrets at the top of her lungs is likely to attract attention and expose them?

[spaceghostess]

Yes, he did look very creepy. As he was unmasking himself, I kept thinking, "Run, Martha, Run." That scene was well done - incredibly tense without actually showing horror or violence.

 

I like the thought that Philip revealed himself as a measure of respect for Martha before he killed her. And I want to agree that Martha will not be killed off-screen...mostly because I don't want Martha to be killed. (Yeah, I know, not likely.) I'm hoping that Philip hesitates one moment too long and Martha can make a move. There is the gun. Maybe its in her purse? 

Ah, but I meant (although didn't communicate clearly) that I believe Philip will kill Martha -- he'll just do it offscreen. I think Umbelina might be on to something with the idea that Philip could set up a "suicide" using Martha's (Chekov's) gun. Could definitely see this happening, with us finding out next week that her body has been discovered. :-(

 

I also kind of (OK, totally) love Oleg and wish there'd been more for him to do this season. Guess I'll have to be satisfied with "Beeeeeep" for now.

 

Oh, and did anyone else actually find the opening scene with Henry kind of creepy? I don't know, there was a weird vibe with him. The shot from behind the couch of him playing the game while the t.v. babysat certainly conveyed the message of disconnection and isolation I'm sure was intended, but it somehow felt more than just sad to me. Maybe it was intended to underline the irony that Henry, content to be on his own and possibly already tuned in to--and accepting of--the nefarious weirdness of his family, is the better Spy School candidate. But we all figured that out a long time ago!

Edited April 16, 2015 by spaceghostess

[RedHawk]

To add to my comments above, while we children of the '60s and '70s were not indoctrinated that the Soviet Union was bad bad bad, spies and espionage were big in film and books, especially James Bond and Soviet spy novels like Gorky Park. Spies were usually portrayed as intriguing rather than scary, but we knew they could be heroes or villains. Also, in the DC region, many young people had friends whose parents worked for the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if Paige had school friends whose fathers or mothers worked at those agencies. It would be odd if Stan were the only Fed she knows, although he is of course the one most involved in intelligence work.

I thought the travel agency was real? They use it as a cover, but it's a real business, employing regular, non-spy people and selling trips and tickets to actual clients.

 

 

Yes, it's real, but Paige knows her parents aren't just mild-mannered travel agents, and so to her that's another big lie.

Oh, and did anyone else actually find the opening scene with Henry kind of creepy? I don't know, there was a weird vibe with him. The shot from behind the couch of him playing the game while the t.v. babysat certainly conveyed the message of disconnection and isolation I'm sure was intended,

 

 

Yes, it seems they're trying to show us that Henry is now being neglected (even more!) and maybe that's building toward something. While it may appear to P&E that he's happily absorbed in his electronic game and TV, he may be quietly listening to their interactions and coming up with his own conclusions about what's going on in his house. HE may be the one who goes to Stan!

[SunnyBeBe]

I just think that while her disrespect for her parents might be quite common now, in the 1980's it wasn't that common.  Instead of bombarding them about family tree trivia, I would think she would be concerned about what rules there are for spies in this country.  And wouldn't she wonder about who might be watching them or just how safe they are.  Maybe, her teen brain isn't capable of that, but if she's so precocious, I don't see it as a stretch.

[DrSpaceman]

I think teenage disrespect for parents goes back to the first parent and the first teenager. 

[txhorns79]

Yes, but I think that Philip will have to be very careful of how Pastor Tim is handled.  If murdered, it could lead to an investigation and they would likely take a hard look at the fact he's so involved with a teenage girl.  Thus, looking into the Jennings family, which should be avoided at all costs.

 

Pastor Tim appears to have a large flock that includes teenagers aside from Paige.  I think it's inappropriate how he appears to be actively undermining her parents, but we really haven't been given an indication as to whether his attention to her is special, or if that is just what he does with everyone.   

 

 

I just think that while her disrespect for her parents might be quite common now, in the 1980's it wasn't that common.

 

I mean this in in the nicest way possible.  Kids have been disrepsecting their parents for many, many, many generations.  It happened in the 1980s, it happened in the 1970s, it happened before that.  Add that to the fact that Paige has a legitimate reason to disrepsect her parents (i.e. that their entire life is a huge lie) with the added bonus that she now has leverage on them, and it's like a teenager's dream scenario.        

[Auntie Anxiety]

The fear of the Soviet Union was ongoing and certainly didn't start in the 70s or 80s. In the early 1960s, we had air raid drills; go under your desk, cover your head, duck away from the windows......all of which would have been useless if a nuke was dropped and it just basically scared the crap out of elementary school students. We all knew it was in relation to the Soviet Union and Cuba.

I hope we see Elizabeth's mother. Been wracking my brain thinking about the actress who would be right for the part.

[RedHawk]

Instead of bombarding them about family tree trivia, I would think she would be concerned about what rules there are for spies in this country.

 

 

I do think Paige is putting a lot of focus -- for me, it is too much -- on "family" (Is he really my cousin? Is she really my aunt?) and I can see it's mostly to serve the "Grandma in Russia" plot line. I agree that Paige also should be wanting to know the exact situation her parents are in, are putting her and Henry in, etc. But maybe that's just what she's grabbed onto in her confusion and anger. The thing of wanting to stay overnight withTim and Alice is a clue that she wants a "normal" family situation where everything is just as it seems. 

 

[spaceghostess]

I just think that while her disrespect for her parents might be quite common now, in the 1980's it wasn't that common.  Instead of bombarding them about family tree trivia, I would think she would be concerned about what rules there are for spies in this country.  And wouldn't she wonder about who might be watching them or just how safe they are.  Maybe, her teen brain isn't capable of that, but if she's so precocious, I don't see it as a stretch.

Oh, I was a total pain in the ass at that age -- and I was just a few years younger than Paige (closer to Henry's age, probably) in 1984. I probably would have mouthed off similarly, not in public, but behind closed doors at home. That scene felt very real to me, but maybe I was just that type of brat, and not typical.

 

I mean this in in the nicest way possible.  Kids have been disrepsecting their parents for many, many, many generations.  It happened in the 1980s, it happened in the 1970s, it happened before that.  Add that to the fact that Paige has a legitimate reason to disrepsect her parents (i.e. that their entire life is a huge lie) with the added bonus that she now has leverage on them, and it's like a teenager's dream scenario.        

Yup. And this is why if Paige were to break bad next season, there wouldn't be a damned thing her parents could do about it.

[SunnyBeBe]

Teens can be rebellious and act out, but IMO Paige gets away with a lot and always has.  I'm not that much older than Paige and I would NEVER have thought of talking to my parents the way she does and neither did most of my peers.  Recall when she skipped school and lied about it?  She got punished, but my parents would have really gone off on something like that. My world would have come to stand still.  Her parents are quite tolerant of her behavior.  Then to leave a note about spending the night without prior approval?  I can't imagine it.  It's not normal for a 15 year-old, IMO, but I was raised in the south.  Backtalk wasn't tolerated very well and not falling house rules had consequences.