S20.E05: Disney Songs Night

[sinkwriter]

 

Eh, see I feel like picking Ursula was an "of course" moment for Rumer. There was no challenge for her in it. It's too in her wheelhouse. And I think there are plenty of other women who have been on the show who would have picked non-princesses.

 

Ultimately, what difference does it make? In an evening of Disney saccharine sweetness (which isn't always a bad thing, I'm just saying), it was refreshing to have at least one dance offer up a fun alternative.

Edited April 16, 2015 by sinkwriter

[Andiethewestie]

Ultimately, what difference does it make? In an evening of Disney saccharine sweetness (which isn't always a bad thing, I'm just saying), it was refreshing to have at least one dance offer up a fun alternative.

 

There was strategy to picking the villain. Definitely it was the alternative which if done well will always trump the sugary sweetness of a disney princess. If this is Rumer's wheelhouse then I applaud her for knowing her strength. I would definitely want Rumer as Rizzo in Grease, she's just so much more earthy than Sandy:). Nastia danced the hell out of her routine, but in the end it was meh, because the subject was bland. Willow was helped by the offbeat production of the Alice in Wonderland routine, but I still think the girl gets swallowed up a bit by the production, so Mark throws in Quickstep runs for a Foxtrot, nobody noticed anyway.  Riker also had a great character choice, definitely pick a fan favorite that's based on Johnny Depp's portrayal of Keith Richards, what could be more edgy?

[sinkwriter]

But that's my point. What difference does it make if it's in Rumer's wheelhouse or if there was strategy to her choice? People are going on and on about whether or not she should have gone with playing a villain or if it's too obvious or easy for her, and what it boils down to is that I just don't care. Ultimately none of that matters to me in the long run. It was simply an entertaining performance that I enjoyed very much (and ended up watching more than once because of it).

[katha]

But could they all choose? This is something I don't quite get. Because it didn't seem to me that Nastia had much of a choice at all, she was just stuck with the cheese. And others were stuck with characters that didn't quite suit them either. I also think that all the pros were basically railroaded into using loads of production because it's Disney night and the show wants it that way. Same with the use of the troupe, at this point I suspect that there's a certain amount of dance time they have in their contracts so they get shoved into the routines no matter what. And then some get called out for it by the judges, others aren't. Some get called out for technique issues, others aren't.  It's all inconsistent because they're following a script to "shake things up" or to "make it more exciting" or whatever. This week was really obvious about those machinations IMO.

Edited April 16, 2015 by katha

[truthaboutluv]

I can think of plenty past celebs who would have jumped on Cruella

 

 

Nene was Cruella actually, in Season 18 when they first did Disney night. 

[sinkwriter]

 

Nastia danced the hell out of her routine, but in the end it was meh, because the subject was bland.

 

Personally, I think Nastia's performance seemed bland because of how the showrunners chose to film it. They were trying to create some big Disney finale performance with the "moments" where Nastia and Derek are in shadow and we just see their silhouettes moving, and all the other long-range shots that were created simply to show off that they could create a live-action Disney performance.

 

But I think the performance itself suffered because it became more about creating the Disney look and less about showing Nastia actually dancing. I can't even remember seeing her face except for at the very beginning when they were lip syncing to each other. Then it became all about the production. Which is fine, I guess, but it was blah to me because I couldn't see her face. Here she was, dancing her heart out and apparently showing some great smiles and fun instead of her usual serious focused face, and I couldn't see her because the cameras were all over the place and pulling back far away, way too often. I felt like they ruined what could have been a lovely, sunny performance for Nastia.

[Andiethewestie]

But could they all choose? This is something I don't quite get. Because it didn't seem to me that Nastia had much of a choice at all, she was just stuck with the cheese. 

 

It would appear that the contestants were offered parts that the producers wanted to showcase, we see that Rumer didn't want a princess but its more than possible that Nastia wanted a princess.  It's what the pros and their choreography does with the production that will make it great, especially on Disney night where the focus is on the production values.    

Edited April 16, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[Padma]

Eh, see I feel like picking Ursula was an "of course" moment for Rumer. There was no challenge for her in it. It's too in her wheelhouse. And I think there are plenty of other women who have been on the show who would have picked non-princesses. Just last season, Sadie was Ellie from Up. Disney week is fairly recent. I can think of plenty past celebs who would have jumped on Cruella, Maleficent, and Ursula, among others, just for the character factor. Ricki Lake, Margaret Cho, Marissa Winoker, Lil Kim, Debi Mazar, Kelly Osbourne, Hope Solo, Niecy Nash, Kirstie Alley - maybe they would have gone the princess route, but I could easily see them choosing the campy villain route instead.

Not to belabor my (very minor point), but many Disney villain(esses) are beautiful, glamorous, too, they're just older, darker, etc. I consider Cruella, Maleficient and quite a few others to be in that group. Ursula? Not so much. But it made a fun number, regardless of how people may or may not agree with me in finding the choice of Ursula refreshing.

[saber5055]

Eh, see I feel like picking Ursula was an "of course" moment for Rumer. There was no challenge for her in it. It's too in her wheelhouse.

 

 

I don't see where chosing to portray a princess or a villainess makes any difference to how one dances. So what's the difference if Rumer danced as Ursula or The Little Mermaid or Cinderella? Hopefully, judges judged on the performance (yeah, right, like that happens) and not the character chosen or best costume. Talking about wanting to be a villain was just pre-dance package stuff plus let them film underwater for something different. Probably nothing else happened in the Rumer/Val rehearsals that week so TPTB had to create SOMETHING to show.

[luvthepros]

 

Probably nothing else happened in the Rumer/Val rehearsals that week so TPTB had to create SOMETHING to show.

Why not just show the couple rehearsing? That is what the packages used to show if I recall correctly. The show has evolved into something that barely resembles what it was in the early seasons. It was a huge hit back then with great ratings.

[skittl3862]

Actually, that's not true. The songs for the classic Disney movies were written specifically for those movies. Disney song writers wrote them prior to 1950, and Cinderella was the first  movie for which Disney solicited the song writers of "Tin Pan Alley." Broadway shows are another animal but that's a different subject; I'm speaking specifically about classic Disney songs, the subject of this week's episode.

 

 

Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella again. And I bet most Disney fans could match the songs to the films quite easily. 

 

You may be right about the "progression of the American musical" but to my tastes, that translates as "we have crappy song writers today that don't write good songs." Whatever the hell Mark and Willow were dancing to, for example - that's not something you walk out of the movie theater humming to yourself. It's not catchy or memorable. It may service whatever plot point it's intended for but it doesn't stand on its own as a "song" in my book. Dialogue set to music isn't a "song" in my book.

 

Plenty of people walked out of the movie theater humming Let It Go or Love Is An Open Door. Ask the poor parents who had to listen to it for the next year solid.

 

Sure, Someday My Prince Will Come was written for Snow White, there's nothing about the song that is specific to Snow White. It could be sung by Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Rapunzel, Anna and no one would notice the difference. Hell, Nala could have sung it too. That doesn't make it a good song, that makes it a pretty, empty song that adds nothing to the movie except killed time and a soundtrack to sell. But not every song post-Walt is "dialogue to music" to the extreme that Love Is An Open Door is. The lyrics just have inherent meaning to those specific characters and the scene.

 

I wasn't aware Jerry Herman posted on Previously TV. Give it up, dude, Sondheim won that war.

 

 

That does bring up something I found slightly odd about this night, though, which was the use of those two pieces of music. Both dances turned out well (I agree with those who found Allison's choreography a little too ON ON ON as usual, but Riker did a good job with it), so I guess all's well that ends well, but when I hear "Disney Night" I think "Songs from the animated Disney canon" not "soundtracks from live action Disney films." I'd rather them have a separate movie night for that kind of thing, though it's a small nitpick.

 

I thought the same thing. I guess with all the Disney live action reboots lately, they want to draw attention to non-cartoons since, Frozen excepted, the traditional Disney cartoon musical has been dead for about 20 years, but there is more than enough from the Disney cartoon catalog to choose from. Did they not want to repeat movies from last Disney night? What about some of the songs highlighted in the intro? I was shocked that they introduced Keo with Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah (geez guys, tact?), but even that seems more fitting than Pirates of the Caribbean scoring.

[Uke]

These are very valid points and It makes me wonder who is driving the song choice.  I know people say that the pros submit their lists about what songs they want to choreograph too but I also know that Val has a history of deferring to his partner a lot on song choice (remember Elizabeth and Cher week?).  Furthermore, with this being disney week, I wonder what songs they got clearance for and there have been too many changes (they were originally slated to do a tango but switched to the samba) while other times the song choices are producer driven (remember Val and Janel during Broadway week wherein there was a possibility they couldn't use the song unless he changed the choreography?).   Just as I typed this, Afterbuzz's Kristyn Burtt's voice popped up in my head shouting, "This is a highly produced show."  Maybe because it is true. 

 

Some of the pros themselves have stated in interviews that they submit song lists at the start of the season. Mark said in one of the interviews at the start of this season that he submits a list of 5 or 6 songs for EACH dance style that might be assigned. That tells me he puts considerable thought into this.  Val might want to re-think his deferring to his partner on song choice. While it's great he wants to include his partners in song choices, they likely don't know what songs will go with which dances while it's part of his skills to know that (in other words, he should guide their choices). 

 

For last season's America from West Side Story, what I heard was that the holder of the song's rights (not DWTS producers) required changes to the choreography so that Janel's dance wouldn't look like the stage/movie version.  DWTS producers messed up by not making clear to Val at the outset what the song rights permitted/restricted.

 

For this week, I think this is the first instance I can recall where the showrunner foisted his song choice on a couple, any couple, because he wanted the Frozen song played and performed.

[Sile]

 

 

That does bring up something I found slightly odd about this night, though, which was the use of those two pieces of music. Both dances turned out well (I agree with those who found Allison's choreography a little too ON ON ON as usual, but Riker did a good job with it), so I guess all's well that ends well, but when I hear "Disney Night" I think "Songs from the animated Disney canon" not "soundtracks from live action Disney films." I'd rather them have a separate movie night for that kind of thing, though it's a small nitpick. 

 

I didn't find it odd at all, just look to the sources.  Two showboats that like to play dress up.  Riker gets to spend all week pretending that he's Johnny Depp and Mark gets to go all "creative" with the set and smoke machine and completely pull focus with as ridiculous and outlandish a costume as he can muster.

 

I happen to love Frozen (the movie, not the DWTS dance) and found two things hilarious about Nastia and Derek's dance.  One, that Derek's portraying what seems to be  Prince Charming, but turns out to be a conniving, calculating villain.  Two, when they copied the film's exact synchronization movements in front the clock face, they were completely out of synch with each other.

 

Did anybody time the dances?  It seems like Rumer and Val's was over in a flash and Nastia and Derek's went on forever.  But that could be because I loved R&V's routine and the music, while the Open Door number in Frozen is my least favorite part of the movie.

 

 

For this week, I think this is the first instance I can recall where the showrunner foisted his song choice on a couple, any couple, because he wanted the Frozen song played and performed.

 

I don't think they were pressured to do it.  I'd bet Derek ate up that lip synching prince cheese with a spoon and he also got an out on creating choreo this week since it was pretty much just a cut and paste of the number in the movie.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Sile

[Uke]

Lifts must have been allowed for the sake of the big productions or something, because there were several and none were called out. In addition to Patti at the end of her waltz, Chris carried Witney down the stairs like a bride toward the beginning of their dance, and the troupe picked Rumer up by the arms and carried her over Val's head to the stage.

 

Oh yes, thanks!, this reminds me that they are allowed a few seconds at the beginning or ending for a lift without getting docked.

[Andiethewestie]

Why not just show the couple rehearsing? That is what the packages used to show if I recall correctly. The show has evolved into something that barely resembles what it was in the early seasons. It was a huge hit back then with great ratings.

The weekly liveaction rehearsals are actually interesting viewing, the troupe members dance classes are cool.  Considering all the other reality shows wanting attention and amount of time people spend not on tv shows these days, the ratings are still pretty strong. Besides, I always find the video packages have a point of view that pushes the narrative for the week, rather than just letting dancing happen organically,it is the show steering the direction of the eliminations and it gets pretty annoying.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[Uke]

This isn't a "Disney films post-Walt" thing. It has to do with the progression of the American musical. Musicals prior to about 1940 were just a bunch of random songs from the composer's files that they threw into a preexisting plot. "Oh, we need a love song? I have one of those lying around." Post-Rodgers and Hammerstein era, that changed. Most of the songs were written for that show, and usually for a specific moment, always with the intention of progressing the plot. There's no question which show The Sound of Music and Edelweiss belong to. I bet most people couldn't match the movies to these songs without checking: So This is Love, Some Day My Prince Will Come, Once Upon A Dream. A Dream Is A Wish Your Heart Makes. They're just interchangeable love songs that kill time.

 

Sorry for the theatre nerd tangent. I agree they could have a better mix, but I'd prefer "exposition" songs to a night full of waltzes to dreary old princess songs.

 

Appreciate your theatre nerd tangent! I never actually realized this.

Now I wonder even more, and it irks me, that the producer asked Rumer the directed question about which princess she wanted to be. 

[katha]

For this week, I think this is the first instance I can recall where the showrunner foisted his song choice on a couple, any couple, because he wanted the Frozen song played and performed.

Yes, that was my impression as well. Wade was determined that someone was going to do it, and the "lucky chosen ones" were Nastia and Derek. I know that Willow wanted to do Alice and wanted to do the Tim Burton version because she thought it was "edgier" LOL. Which, I can see that...she's a bit of a hipster, with her hats, and her fashion and music choices and her Charles Bukowski quote on her instagram.  Of course Mark was in heaven that he could be the nightmare bunny, heh.  Riker got what he wanted. Chris' song choice, dance style, costume, everything OTOH was super unflattering IMO. Yeah, he's not good, but all these things really emphasized that. I mean, in season 18 some couples also had stuff foisted on them, so that's nothing new. But since the discussion was about contestant's choices...my impression was that it wasn't a level playing field in that regard.

[Uke]

Yes, that was my impression as well. Wade was determined that someone was going to do it, and the "lucky chosen ones" were Nastia and Derek. ... Chris' song choice, dance style, costume, everything OTOH was super unflattering IMO. Yeah, he's not good, but all these things really emphasized that. I mean, in season 18 some couples also had stuff foisted on them, so that's nothing new. But since the discussion was about contestant's choices...my impression was that it wasn't a level playing field in that regard.

 

 

Hmmm...now I'm wondering if Nastia and Derek were the "lucky chosen ones" or if they leapt at the chance, assuming they'd get a little preferential treatment like dancing last, maybe kinder judges' comments, etc.  It might have actually been a good strategy for Chris and Witney to volunteer to perform to the showrunner's choice song. For that matter, even Suzanne/Tony for a more mature version.

[TeeMo]

Hmmm...now I'm wondering if Nastia and Derek were the "lucky chosen ones" or if they leapt at the chance, assuming they'd get a little preferential treatment like dancing last, maybe kinder judges' comments, etc.  It might have actually been a good strategy for Chris and Witney to volunteer to perform to the showrunner's choice song. For that matter, even Suzanne/Tony for a more mature version.

I suspect that Rob Wade not only wanted that song to be performed but he wanted it performed by one of the more capable couples - hence we see Rumer and Val turning it down and Nastia and Derek ending up with it. I don't think someone like Chris or Suzanne were likely ever even given the option of using that song. 

[realdancemom]

I suspect that Rob Wade not only wanted that song to be performed but he wanted it performed by one of the more capable couples - hence we see Rumer and Val turning it down and Nastia and Derek ending up with it. I don't think someone like Chris or Suzanne were likely ever even given the option of using that song. 

I agree.  I also think Rob Wade wanted a Frozen song because it was a big Disney hit.  Let It Go was done last year so he didn't want that song done again.

[Guest]

Didn't Derek say in the package that they were happy to do the Frozen thing because Nastia could show a warm connection (no pun intended), or whatever it was they've been saying she lacked?  

 

To be fair, that was a soundtrack piece from Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland. Despite technically having words, it was never intended as a stand alone song -- it's the equivalent of the Pirates of the Caribbean music Riker danced to. It's not meant to be catchy, just atmospheric. (And I personally love it in that context, but I'm always a huge Danny Elfman fan.)

 

That does bring up something I found slightly odd about this night, though, which was the use of those two pieces of music. Both dances turned out well (I agree with those who found Allison's choreography a little too ON ON ON as usual, but Riker did a good job with it), so I guess all's well that ends well, but when I hear "Disney Night" I think "Songs from the animated Disney canon" not "soundtracks from live action Disney films." I'd rather them have a separate movie night for that kind of thing, though it's a small nitpick. 

I loved hearing the Pirates score because it plays in my house all the time, thanks to Xbox Lego Pirates game.  So for us it was watching them dance to Xbox music.  

 

I also liked the offbeat Ursula & Flotsam choice.  And it felt appropriate for Rumer, who is beautiful but has been accused of being heavy and unattractive in the past, and is also not into the princessy thing.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I missed last week's episode and finally had time to watch it - I can't believe I had to wait a whole week for all of this pomp and circumstance. What struck me as I was watching is that the kind of over the top performances we get during Disney week with very specifically themed dances with songs and costumes to go along with the characters and the bigger productions with huge backgrounds and crazy lighting - that's what Mark does EVERY week. I think that a lot of times, people are so charmed by the theme and the costumes that they aren't watching the choreography for content. For example, while there was a lot of actual dance in Willow's Alice in Wonderland routine, there was also a lot of time wasted. How long was that segment where the playing cards surrounded her and she turned around? And because people are so distracted by the spectacle of it all, they don't notice how much arsing around (TM Len) is happening vs. how little actual dancing there is. I got annoyed and started checking the time stamp as I watched and some of these routines had about 30 seconds of actual dancing which means there was a full minute of junk.

 

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy a good theme and a good show. I just dislike the fact that we had an entire episode where the theme of each dance was more important than the dancing itself.

 

Another thing that really bothers me is when the judges have blatant double standards. If Carrie Ann thought it was so "confusing" that Nastia didn't lip sync the entire time, why didn't she say the same thing about Rumer who sometimes made a show of lip syncing and other times looked like she was barely moving her lips and sometimes wasn't singing along at all? I have done dance routines where we pretended to sing and you really have to commit if you're going to lip sync because people DO notice. You can't just barely move your lips like your mumbling under your breath. You have to make an effort to show that you are really moving your mouth or it comes across as half assed. And if you decide to lip sync, you have to do the whole song (the exception is if you don't lip sync and there's one big moment where everyone pretends to yell one specific word or phrase).

 

I have Disney nostalgia from my childhood so I didn't hate this episode, but I couldn't understand why they had the band sing some of the songs live. Surely you can get permission for all of these songs, ABC. When I hear someone else sing iconic songs from my youth, I find it distracting. Granted, they weren't as bad this week as they've been in some previous episodes this season but that's not saying much.

 

Erin needs to STFU. "Hurry up! We're running out of time! Now let's see a picture of you with Minnie Mouse! Val, stop trying to thank the makeup department for covering you and your partner in body paint because I need to drag Minnie Mouse over here! What's going on? La la la la! Oh, right, we're running out of time!" I also hated when she asked Tom if he washed his hands after peeling Mark's wayward contact off his face. I'm not saying Tom should have licked his hands afterward, but it was just a contact. It's not like he picked up a turd with his bare hands.

 

ETA:

Did anybody time the dances?  It seems like Rumer and Val's was over in a flash and Nastia and Derek's went on forever.  But that could be because I loved R&V's routine and the music, while the Open Door number in Frozen is my least favorite part of the movie.

Everyone's dances are supposed to be 90 seconds and but there was so much arsing around that some of the dances seemed longer/shorter. For example, Willow and Mark spent the first 15 minutes of their dance walking around in the trees and smoke. They then danced for just under 40 seconds. Then Willow spent 12 seconds arsing around with the playing cards and they finished with another 25 seconds or so of dancing.

 

Rumer and Val's routine was 90 seconds long too. It may have seemed shorter because Rumer spent the first 15 seconds standing behind the cauldron. Then there was about 10 seconds of Val entering while she came down the stairs and then did some poses before they actually started dancing. The rest of their routine was mostly dancing but there was still the brief arsing around at the judges' table and then the last 10 seconds was more arsing around. They had under a minute of actual dancing.

Nastia and Derek's routine was actually slightly longer. If you start the clock as soon as you hear the first beat of the cymbal and stop the clock when they are staring at the moon, their entire routine was 12 seconds longer. That's including the 7 seconds of lip syncing dialogue at the beginning before they start the leg bouncing bench choreography and another 10 seconds of lip syncing the proposal dialogue at the very end. I personally start the clock as soon as the music starts and end the clock when they hit their final pose, but if you disregard the dialogue at the beginning and the end, the dancing part of their routine was actually less than 90 seconds. But yeah, they went longer than the usual 90 seconds in my opinion. My guess is that TPTB were fine with it because they wanted to pimp Frozen some more (as if that movie needs any more pimping).

Edited April 23, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[tessaforever]

The funniest part of Derek & Nastia's dance (which was definitely sub-par for both their talents) is that Love Is an Open Door is sung by Anna and a guy who tries to MURDER her. Once you know the movie, there's no way that song can just be a cute love song. So that was ruined for me from the start. My 11-year-old daughter (a huge fan of the movie, obvi) thought their "arm heart" was awful, and it was. There was really not much to praise in that routine except that the skirt on Nastia's dress was gorgeous especially when she twirled.