S01.E11: Part 11

[radishcake]

 

After John confronts Carlos about Danny's illicit behavior, John, Kevin and Meg figure out a plan to save the family.

 

Please note that you should NOT discuss episodes that are numerically after the one in the thread you are in. Thanks!

[rippleintime17]

This is the episode where it really hits home how Danny has managed to grab a strong hold of his siblings. In general, there is nothing wrong or out of place with what happens here. Danny picks up his niece, who likes him and enjoys spending time with him, at school and takes her for a ride on the boat. Something that she's likely done with him before so something she thinks nothing of, even though her parents have told her to stay away from him. She sees no reason to and so she doesn't. But because this happens, you have John losing his mind with worry, calling in a missing persons report and absolutely sure his daughter is in terrible danger all because his brother picked her up at school. Because no one else but Janey and Diana know that she's not supposed to be with Danny, there's no reason for anyone else to be like "um, Danny, why is Janey with you" even if they see them together. But damned if I wasn't worried too, trying to figure out if Danny really wanted revenge badly enough to harm his niece. Really well done storytelling here. 

[Eegah]

So, were we really supposed to be in any suspense that Danny might kill Janey? Because that was a huge fail for me. When you ask "Why is the character doing this?", the answer should never, ever be "Because he's the bad guy," and that's exactly what killing Janey would be for Danny. His stated motivation just before the sequence was to make his family feel just what he felt that day, and simply copying the incident deliberately would do the exact opposite of that. Though I am definitely happy that the writers avoided it.

[Guest]

If I was John I would've smacked her across the face.  Ugh.  Why are all tv teens horrors?  

 

Lowry was kind of stupid to not consider that John might stumble upon idiot Danny's operation, right there under his nose.  I doubt men like that trust someone like Danny that quickly, with that much merchandise.  

 

I wonder if Danny pictured Sarah at his Miami apt. picking up the mail and reading the "more to come" notes?  He sees her, he talks to her, he might be that delusional.  He actually has signs of schizophrenia.  

 

Ben Mendelsohn should've learned how to actually smoke for this role instead of just letting cigs dangle from his lip and fingers.  

[panthergirl13]

Ben Mendelsohn should've learned how to actually smoke for this role instead of just letting cigs dangle from his lip and fingers.  

And I don't think it was in this episode, but here's another show where people smoke joints like cigarettes. That drives me absolutely nuts. It's such a simple detail to get right...

[Guest]

Yeah, I saw that, too.  What I don't get is that virtually no actor can believably drink on screen.  They lift a cup to their lips and pull it away and talk without any pretense of swallowing.  How hard is to mime drinking?  

[enchantingmonkey]

If I was John I would've smacked her across the face.  Ugh.  Why are all tv teens horrors?  

Are you showing your age?  :D  I think it's taboo for parents to hit their kids these days.  I'm sure it still happens in some circles but I can see John and his wife being the kind of parents who don't hit their kids.  

 

It was nice to see Danny become more humanized again in this episode.  I wish they would have played the boat scenes without all of the creepy looks.  Why did we need to feel like Jane was in some kind of danger?  I think it would have been more effective to have John losing his mind while we were seeing an innocent trip out on the water.  

[Guest]

I'm a parent who doesn't hit her kids but when you tell them repeatedly, "Don't hang out with uncle psycho", willfully ignoring me would be my exception!  

 

I was glad he didn't hurt Jane.  They'd been dropping hints all season that he might so I knew he either was going to or we'd get the psych out over it.  

 

I figured the men being in the seersucker suits at the end was a hint that he didn't hurt her, because who dresses for a wedding if a kid is hurt or missing.  But even with Jane fine, them being in those suits is an odd thing, with the wedding not even back on the rails and two eps left and them all knowing Danny's not really groomsman material.  Though I suppose they could use the suits for another event, like the pier dedication.  

[enchantingmonkey]

Yeah, at this point it looks like the wedding isn't going to happen.  Perhaps those suits were meant to throw us off?  

[Cabarb]

The whole boat scene with Janey and Danny made me very uncomfortable.  It was never stated (or even insinuated) but I felt this weirdly flirtatious vibe between the two of them.  When he swings around on that pole and Danny tells her that he got her a present for missing her birthday, she sort of giggles and asks about it.  Then he smirks and says that he hasn't decided whether to give it to her. She giggles and calls him a tease.  Then they're playing around in the water.  I may just have a sick, twisted mind that has watched way too much gritty tv, but that whole scene made me uncomfortable.

[flutist4fun]

I didn’t really think Danny would harm Janey either. But I guess he signed his own death warrant by bringing John’s daughter into it. I’m not condoning murder, but I can understand that John’s going to feel like his family is vulnerable as long as Danny is out there. So he'll do whatever he has to, however reckless or wrong, to protect them. I felt some sympathy for Danny again in this episode, since the drowning was obviously an accident and he tried to save Sarah, and is haunted b/c he couldn’t. Again, so much of the blame lies with the useless parents, who were so busy hiding from their own guilt and neglect. It seems they never realized that they needed to help their children through their grief and guilt about Sarah. Danny’s line to John in the flashback when he was taking off in the boat with Sarah sums it up: ‘We’re the only adults here!’ No kidding.

 

Can’t believe John would put his career on the line by working with Meg and Kevin to hide the drugs. Wouldn’t the DEA be following him to make sure his story pans out? Maybe they don’t have enough staff in this small Florida town. Seeing Meg the lawyer and John the cop pull all this hide-the-drugs, lie-to-the-police stuff boggles the mind.

[Guest]

Danny’s line to John in the flashback when he was taking off in the boat with Sarah sums it up: ‘We’re the only adults here!’ No kidding.

Is that what he said?  I thought he was yelling at Danny not to take Sarah out because she needed an adult along.  "There aren't any adults here!" or something.

 

How old was Sarah supposed to be?  I don't know the laws in Florida but where I live, kids need to wear a life jacket in open boats until age 14 or 15.  I would think a family that lived on the water would be sticklers about that.  

[JBC344]

I think Sarah was probably around 11 or 12, since John was fourteen in the flashback.  I think Sarah might be older than Kevin so the order is Danny, John, Sarah, Kevin and Meg.

[flutist4fun]

Is that what he said?  I thought he was yelling at Danny not to take Sarah out because she needed an adult along.  "There aren't any adults here!" or something.

 

How old was Sarah supposed to be?  I don't know the laws in Florida but where I live, kids need to wear a life jacket in open boats until age 14 or 15.  I would think a family that lived on the water would be sticklers about that.

John yelled at Danny that he wasn't supposed to take Sarah out in the boat without an adult, and Danny yelled back, We're the only adults here!

I don't know how old Sarah was, but she looked somewhere between 10 and 12. It's a good point about the life jackets, especially given the family business. They run boat charters; you'd think all the kids, particularly the older boys, would have boating safety drilled into their heads, and throwing on a life jacket would be automatic. To put it bluntly, drownings would be bad for business.

The more time I spend with this family, or even just think about them, the more I kind of despise them. But it's a great show. ;)

[DeLurker]

On 4/12/2015 at 9:57 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

 I don't know the laws in Florida but where I live, kids need to wear a life jacket in open boats until age 14 or 15.  I would think a family that lived on the water would be sticklers about that.  

I'm pretty sure current law requires a PFD (personal flotation devise) for all boaters (at least powerboats), but not sure what laws were in effect the 30 or so years ago when the accident was to have taken place.  Plus, kids would normally look at something like that as a nuisance.

 

On 4/8/2015 at 1:06 PM, Cabarb said:

The whole boat scene with Janey and Danny made me very uncomfortable.  It was never stated (or even insinuated) but I felt this weirdly flirtatious vibe between the two of them.  When he swings around on that pole and Danny tells her that he got her a present for missing her birthday, she sort of giggles and asks about it.  Then he smirks and says that he hasn't decided whether to give it to her. She giggles and calls him a tease.  Then they're playing around in the water.  I may just have a sick, twisted mind that has watched way too much gritty tv, but that whole scene made me uncomfortable.

Not just you.  There was a little undercurrent going on and I really did not know where they were going to take that scene.  But I thought Danny often had the same weirdly flirty vibe going with his Mom in some of their scenes.

 

Because I mainlined the last few eps today, I think the scene where

Spoiler

Lowry's hired killer goes to Chelsea's house is in this ep.  The one stand out error they made to me, and it is such a small thing, is they show the guy using his knife to slice the screen so he can open the screen door onto her patio.  In Florida, no one is going to lock a screen door because everybody knows that you just need to push out the screen to reach in and unlock the door (you'd never bother with a knife).  I grew up there and still have family there - seriously, no one I ever knew ever locked their screen door unless there were high winds and no one I knew ever had a screen door you could lock from the outside.

[Auntie Anxiety]

What with Danny's excessive drinking, I thought it was weird that they even allowed him to take guests out on the water in the boat.  In an emergency, he'd be too drunk/hungover to act responsibly.

[DeLurker]

There's a LOT of drinking going on around the water, especially in the Keys.  And lots of "functioning alcoholics" working the tourism industry which is filled with people who start drinking early in the day because they are on vacation in the Keys and trying to live out a Jimmy Buffet song in 7 days/6 nights.

[metalchik]

I just finished this series last night.  Loved it!  I'm not sure if it was this episode or the last one but I've seen a couple of posts asking about Danny and the toast...can anyone elaborate on that?  I remember the scene of him eating the toast but not sure if I missed something else....

[LateJuliet]

I absolutely loved this episode, best hour of TV I've seen since Breaking Bad.  No, I didn't think Danny killed Janie but the tension was well executed.  From the creepy-incest vibe between them to John's panic that he'd once again oh-so-screwed up (honestly, dude, when are you gonna get you're an amateur next to Danny?), just superb performances and writing.  Then we the viewers were also double crossed by the siblings...John's going to the DEA, Meg and Kevin doing a snatch and dump behind his back, but NO that was the plan all along. 

 

If Ben Medelsohn doesn't get an Emmy nom, I'm gonna be pissed.  The whole series he's walked this line making us alternately pity him and fear him.  Really amazing work.

[pearlite]

Not just you.  There was a little undercurrent going on and I really did not know where they were going to take that scene.  But I thought Danny often had the same weirdly flirty vibe going with his Mom in some of their scenes.

Oh, good! I sort of thought I might have been supplying the pervy-uncle vibe there, and I haven't got that far into my second viewing. But I really picked up on the sexual thing with John's daughter, and wondered how far they were going to push this border. I think Mendelsohn played the charm-card well where Danny's character is concerned. I definitely picked up on the stuff with his mother, as well--the scene with his bare butt on the dock may have added something there though. His character is louche, and effortlessly charming to some women--the bar outing with John, where he says something like, "You can keep them [women]. I can get them--I just can't keep them.'

[ShellSeeker]

The whole boat scene with Janey and Danny made me very uncomfortable.  It was never stated (or even insinuated) but I felt this weirdly flirtatious vibe between the two of them.  When he swings around on that pole and Danny tells her that he got her a present for missing her birthday, she sort of giggles and asks about it.  Then he smirks and says that he hasn't decided whether to give it to her. She giggles and calls him a tease.  Then they're playing around in the water.  I may just have a sick, twisted mind that has watched way too much gritty tv, but that whole scene made me uncomfortable.

 

 

Not just you.  There was a little undercurrent going on and I really did not know where they were going to take that scene.  But I thought Danny often had the same weirdly flirty vibe going with his Mom in some of their scenes.

 

It was definitely there. Whoever wrote and/or directed this series really understands all these weird family dynamics. My brother struggled with addiction all his life and I see many similarities between him and Danny. One of those is the inappropriate flirting. He would do that sometimes and it would make everyone really uncomfortable. I don't think he meant anything by it, I think it was just the only way he really knew how to interact with people, and he didn't have any boundaries. It was like he'd spent so much time hanging out in bars, that the boozy bullshitter was the only guy he knew how to be. Ben Mendohlson completely nailed it.

 

Danny really is just pure evil. I didn't think they'd go so far as to have him actually hurt Janey, but he knew it would be the most fucked up thing he could do to John, so that's why he did it. Obviously he wanted John to think he was going to hurt her, when he left the message about her being with an adult so everything would be fine. Even though I didn't think he would do anything to her, the tension was still intense. And it's weird that part of me feels sympathy for him because clearly he's been haunted by what happened to Sarah his entire life. Really great episode.

 

So it looks like Sarah had a fight with Sally, took off with Danny on the boat, her necklace fell overboard, and then she drowned trying to get it. Then Sally, instead of staying with her family in the wake of an awful tragedy, packed up all her stuff and hopped onto a bus. Unbelievably selfish and despicable. I get that she was also grieving, but as a mother I cannot imagine abandoning my children at a time when they need me more than they ever have. Ugh. She really is awful.

[flutist4fun]

So it looks like Sarah had a fight with Sally, took off with Danny on the boat, her necklace fell overboard, and then she drowned trying to get it. Then Sally, instead of staying with her family in the wake of an awful tragedy, packed up all her stuff and hopped onto a bus. Unbelievably selfish and despicable. I get that she was also grieving, but as a mother I cannot imagine abandoning my children at a time when they need me more than they ever have. Ugh. She really is awful.

I'm not an apologist for Sally (I think she's an awful, narcissistic mother), but I don't think she left after Sarah died. I think she was in the act of abandoning her family (packing in her room when Sarah came looking for comfort, Sally sends Sarah off with Danny, then leaves), and I believe is on the bus when somehow she hears what has happened...maybe she hears the news since they wouldn't have had cellphones then. I'm pretty sure that was the sequence of events, so Sally didn't abandon her family AFTER the drowning. I guess it doesn't matter much though; she is still a pathetic mother IMO. I'm wondering, is there anyone who sees any redeeming features in Sally? Just curious.

[DeLurker]

Danny really is just pure evil. I didn't think they'd go so far as to have him actually hurt Janey, but he knew it would be the most fucked up thing he could do to John, so that's why he did it. Obviously he wanted John to think he was going to hurt her, when he left the message about her being with an adult so everything would be fine. Even though I didn't think he would do anything to her, the tension was still intense. And it's weird that part of me feels sympathy for him because clearly he's been haunted by what happened to Sarah his entire life. Really great episode.

To me (and my siblings), messing with someone's kid is never going to be all right.  If any of us did what Danny did with Janey, regardless of actual harm, there'd be a good chance of a beat down and none of your other siblings would say "No harm, no foul" in Danny's defense.  You add that to all the other shite Danny's done since being back in town and it would surely be a blood bath.

 

ETA:  It isn't clear from the ep, but I too thought Sally had left before the drowning took place. 

 

And I find nothing redeeming about Sally.  I might actually hate her most - depends on the ep.

Edited April 27, 2015 by DeLurker

[ShellSeeker]

I'm not an apologist for Sally (I think she's an awful, narcissistic mother), but I don't think she left after Sarah died. I think she was in the act of abandoning her family (packing in her room when Sarah came looking for comfort, Sally sends Sarah off with Danny, then leaves), and I believe is on the bus when somehow she hears what has happened...maybe she hears the news since they wouldn't have had cellphones then. I'm pretty sure that was the sequence of events, so Sally didn't abandon her family AFTER the drowning. I guess it doesn't matter much though; she is still a pathetic mother IMO. I'm wondering, is there anyone who sees any redeeming features in Sally? Just curious.

 

That actually would make sense, since a pretty good chunk of time probably passed between the time Danny and Sarah left and everyone else finding out about the accident.

[millennium]

I'm not an apologist for Sally (I think she's an awful, narcissistic mother), but I don't think she left after Sarah died. I think she was in the act of abandoning her family (packing in her room when Sarah came looking for comfort, Sally sends Sarah off with Danny, then leaves), and I believe is on the bus when somehow she hears what has happened...maybe she hears the news since they wouldn't have had cellphones then. I'm pretty sure that was the sequence of events, so Sally didn't abandon her family AFTER the drowning. I guess it doesn't matter much though; she is still a pathetic mother IMO. I'm wondering, is there anyone who sees any redeeming features in Sally? Just curious.

 

Sally's largely responsible for Sarah's death.   She set in motion the events that led Danny to take Sarah out in the boat.   Meanwhile, Sarah's dead husband is responsible for the ruination of Danny's life.   Yet Danny, like the coward he is, has never been able to confront either of them and instead turns his hatred and vengeance on his siblings, who were just kids like him when it all happened.   Danny's vendetta is so misdirected.

 

I'm not impressed by Sissy Spacek in this role.  It feels like outtakes from In the Bedroom.

 

The guy who plays John is very good, though.

Edited May 1, 2015 by millennium

[Rahul]

Am I the only one who finds the rflashbacks extremely repetitive and annoying at this point? Just show the whole scene in its entirety, damn it! I'm fed up of seeing the same few seconds over and over in an effort to amp up the drama.

[monakane]

Am I the only one who finds the rflashbacks extremely repetitive and annoying at this point? Just show the whole scene in its entirety, damn it! I'm fed up of seeing the same few seconds over and over in an effort to amp up the drama.

 

Yes!  This is my first time watching and I find it extremely annoying.

[Inquisitionist]

I'm fed up of seeing the same few seconds over and over in an effort to amp up the drama.

 

This is the show creators' style -- they employed it a lot in Damages, as well.

[peggy06]

I was so tense during that boat scene that I almost hit the fast forward button. Yeah, I know we saw the scenes of what looks to be the wedding, which would point to everything being OK, but Danny's whole demeanor is so creepy and his feelings toward John are so hostile, that it seemed like anything could happen.

 

The flirty vibe, which has also been present in other scenes with Danny and Janey, added an extra dose of creepiness. Makes my skin crawl whenever he talks to her. Good catch that Danny uses a similar manner with Sally. It's creepy there, as well, and Sally is dumb not to notice it.

 

So Sarah's arm got stuck and Danny couldn't get her free. Was he racing back to shore to get help? BTW, I think it was clear from an early episode that Sally was gone when the drowning happened. Det. Potts said she wasn't there. I don't like her much, but I hardly think she would leave in the face of her child's death. After all, she did come back.

 

My mouth dropped when the perfect lawyer started in on all the reasons why they couldn't go to the DEA. Yeah, it would be tough for the family, but I did not expect that of Meg. Then my mouth dropped again when John turned out to be the mastermind behind hiding the drugs. Whoever said he's not very competent as a cop was dead on. First, he hides evidence to protect a brother about whom he himself has suspicions. Then he tips off said brother. Then, when he finds a literal boatload of cocaine that the brother stashed on his family's property, he consults with his siblings and waits till morning to go to the DEA. If I were them, I'd be taking a hard look at John Rayburn. Actually that may be how the series ends. In one episode, John says in the voiceover that he puts himself in "your" hands. Maybe talking to a disciplinary board or court?

Edited August 11, 2015 by peggy06

[nicepebbles]

I'm finally catching up on this show. 

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that felt the creepy vibe between Janey and Danny. I was really hoping the show wouldn't go there and I'm glad they did not. I never got the creepy vibe like that between him and his mom. I do always get uncomfortable when he is around because his just oozes sleaze. 

 

I don't think is an incompetent cop. He clearly knows how to do his job. The problem is he isn't thinking straight so he's convincing himself he's doing the right thing. I'm wondering how far ahead he's really thinking. 

 

I don't think Sally is largely responsible for Sara's death anymore than Danny is. Neither one expected that to happen from Sally not comforting the kids and Danny taking her on the boat. Sally and the dad (can't remember his name right now) are responsible for how that tragedy f'ed the family up. I can understand the dad being so upset and taking it out on Danny. I can understand John deciding to protect his dad. I can even understand the dad not owning up to what happened to Danny to the cops. I can't understand at some point down the road not apologizing to Danny one on one. The dad really should've done. Then mom and dad should've talked to him. Then they needed a family meeting about it. I mean Sally feels so guilty but doesn't do anything, as far as we can tell, constructive to heal her family. I hate people who say shit like that then do jack shit to actually fix things. 

 

I'm actually surprised the only instance of violence between the family was the dad beating on Danny. For some reason I had a feeling he was abusive towards Sally. 

 

I don't feel sorry for Danny at this point. At some point you have to get your shit together as far as the damage your family has done. As far as what his siblings did as kids, I'm not going to blame them for that. He should forgive them for that. Once they got to be adults they should've been understanding of why he acted out. After a certain point though, people can't use the past to keep acting like an ass. I can't tell if Danny really ever tried to get his shit together and his family wasn't having it so he said forget it. Or his family really tried to give him another chance and be blew it. Perhaps it was a combo of both with some family members on board and others not and Danny believing he could change but then changing his mind. 

 

So I don't feel sorry for any of these characters except for the kids, Marco and a bit for Carlos. 

[Readalot]

Yup high key creepy factor from Danny towards all females he encountered. The parents are the worse parents ever. They really fucked over the boys. Too much to say but best episodes so far. Glad to see Ben M got an Emmy nod, I thought Kyle C deserved one too

[FnkyChkn34]

On 4/8/2015 at 2:06 PM, Cabarb said:

The whole boat scene with Janey and Danny made me very uncomfortable.  It was never stated (or even insinuated) but I felt this weirdly flirtatious vibe between the two of them.  When he swings around on that pole and Danny tells her that he got her a present for missing her birthday, she sort of giggles and asks about it.  Then he smirks and says that he hasn't decided whether to give it to her. She giggles and calls him a tease.  Then they're playing around in the water.  I may just have a sick, twisted mind that has watched way too much gritty tv, but that whole scene made me uncomfortable.

I thought the same thing.  I was totally creeped out.

On 4/12/2015 at 10:57 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Is that what he said?  I thought he was yelling at Danny not to take Sarah out because she needed an adult along.  "There aren't any adults here!" or something.

 

How old was Sarah supposed to be?  I don't know the laws in Florida but where I live, kids need to wear a life jacket in open boats until age 14 or 15.  I would think a family that lived on the water would be sticklers about that.  

John was yelling that Sarah was too young to go out with Danny, and that she had to be with an adult.  After witnessing their parent's fight, Danny said he and John were the only adults there.  

They both probably should have had life jackets.  I thought I heard someone say early on in the season that Sarah was 9 when she died.  I think the order is Danny, John, Kevin, Sarah, Meg.