S20.E01: Episode 1

[Wings]

I agree that height is a major factor in assigning dance partners!  

[realdancemom]

Besides height, I think the producers knew that Alfonso and Witney were tappers.  I think they were hoping that tap would be included in their freestyle.  I'm assuming that they thought that Alfonso would make the finals.  I'm glad that Alfonso was paired with Witney.  He is really versatile and Witney is heavily cross-trained.  It was fun when they could add elements like the Carlton and Apache to their dances.  Their trio with Lindsay is also one of the most fun pasos that I've seen.  That's because both Witney and Lindsay are used to songs like "Turn Down The What" so they can effectively use the beat and add a little swag to it.  And Alfonso was talented enough to do it with them.

[Sunhusky]

Yeah, but the reason she got him wasn't about dues paid on the show and was clearly more about ABC doing their usual scheming to draw in various viewership segments from outlying fanbases. 

And she is trained in tap dance.

[trubellcurve]

speaking of Height and pairing's, Now that Maks is gone. Which men are the tallest. In the earlier season's this would be a reason that Maks, Tony D and Jonathan Roberts got the women they did. Does anyone know which 3 males of the current cast/troupe are the tallest.

It was nice to see Val with Zendaya even if she was taller than him. So I know that Height isn't the only factor when assigning partner's but it does play a role in it.

[Kromm]

It was nice to see Val with Zendaya even if she was taller than him. So I know that Height isn't the only factor when assigning partner's but it does play a role in it.

Mr. Google disagrees.  He says she's 5'10" and Val is 6' even.

 

She wore heels.

[trubellcurve]

I was going by her own remarks in interviews during the season and the reason she had to wear low heels. Good to know that Val is 6 foot. How tall was Maksim then. I do recall her addressing the height issue during the show and the after show interviews . Maybe I imagined it.

My main point was that Val took it as a creative challenge and worked with it.

[Rrrhumba]

No way is Val 6ft. He's the same height or even slightly shorter than Derek, who's only ever claimed to be 5'10". There was a lot of criticism that season that Zendaya was in tennis shoes a lot... The tallest male pros now are Tony and Keo.

With regards Derek, my biggest problem is that when asked about an upcoming season, most of the other pros will publicly state that they would love to do the show and "if the show wants me back, I will be." This also used to be Derek's line. Now it's "I wanted to come back so the show moved heaven and earth to make it happen for me." It's completely disrespectful to his fellow pros and gives the impression that he really does think he's bigger than the show. I also read his book (really to see if he addressed Julianne's claims about London and how she was "abused" there. He didn't). He really does seem to believe he's something special. I personally can see that he's a great dancer and can strike on some cool choreo/production moments but personally I've found both Val and Mark's choreography to be more memorable and interesting in the last few years. Mark in particular would have to be very unlucky if he misses out on an Emmy nod for his work with Sadie last season.

[CED9]

speaking of Height and pairing's, Now that Maks is gone. Which men are the tallest. In the earlier season's this would be a reason that Maks, Tony D and Jonathan Roberts got the women they did. Does anyone know which 3 males of the current cast/troupe are the tallest.

It was nice to see Val with Zendaya even if she was taller than him. So I know that Height isn't the only factor when assigning partner's but it does play a role in it.

I think Keo is the tallest (and why he's had 2 lanky non graceful partners) then Tony. And other than Sasha who I think is 5'6ish, the rest of them are like 5'8-5'10.

[Kromm]

No way is Val 6ft. He's the same height or even slightly shorter than Derek, who's only ever claimed to be 5'10". There was a lot of criticism that season that Zendaya was in tennis shoes a lot... The tallest male pros now are Tony and Keo.

With regards Derek, my biggest problem is that when asked about an upcoming season, most of the other pros will publicly state that they would love to do the show and "if the show wants me back, I will be." This also used to be Derek's line. Now it's "I wanted to come back so the show moved heaven and earth to make it happen for me." It's completely disrespectful to his fellow pros and gives the impression that he really does think he's bigger than the show. I also read his book (really to see if he addressed Julianne's claims about London and how she was "abused" there. He didn't). He really does seem to believe he's something special. I personally can see that he's a great dancer and can strike on some cool choreo/production moments but personally I've found both Val and Mark's choreography to be more memorable and interesting in the last few years. Mark in particular would have to be very unlucky if he misses out on an Emmy nod for his work with Sadie last season.

Speaking of Derek's massive ego, have we all seen this?

 

Can Derek Hough save the Rockettes?

 

My head (and likely Derek's ego) explodes at the idea that it takes Derek Hough to do such.

There's even a section there about how he promised to NOT do Season 20 of DWTS to dedicate himself to this and... decided he was up to doing both (flying between them).  Because you know... he's Derek Hough.

Allegedly this is the so-called "reason" he has Nastia Liukin as a partner (because she lives in NY and will also be flying back and forth). Her being the ringiest ringer in years has zero to do with it apparently, riiiiiiight?

[trubellcurve]

.Thank you CED9

 

for this information.   It also explains Keo as  he is getting what happened to Maks, Tony D. and Jonathan R. in their early season's.  

 

Hopefully, they will get some new men with Ht.   I say this as the show likes to recruit Model's and other women of Ht.   

 

I am really surprised that the show hasn't recruited taller men either as a pro or in the troupe for this reason.  I say this because as a woman of Ht  myself ,  It is what drew me into the show from season 1.  

Seeing women of ht dance and so on.  Not the only reason because I had already been watching PBS when they showed the Ballroom/Latin final's before the show premiered but  the show gave me hope that a woman of Ht could dance.

 

YMMV.  just my own thoughts

[truthaboutluv]

Her being the ringiest ringer in years has zero to do with it apparently, riiiiiiight?

 

 

Nope, sorry, Meryl still has her beat and Nicole years before. Nastia was a gymnast, a gymnast who hasn't competed in a few years by the way, she is not a dancer. Yes, she has advantages with her flexibility, strength and movement much like that Riker kid probably has the advantage of great musicality because he's a musician. And musicality is a big advantage to have in dance competition. But that does not make her a ringer imo.

 

But I've always felt the ringer label gets flown around quite liberally with regards to this show. Hell, in my opinion, if you think Nastia is such a big ringer then Alfonso was the ringerest ringer ever having danced with Michael Jackson at one point, or Corbin Bleu who studied with Debbie Allen at her famed dance school. Not only do I hardly consider Nastia a ringer but frankly the list of people with far more dancing background than her that's been on this show is very, very long. Which speaking of, I notice many are fairly mum on how much dance and musical background training Rumer has had growing up. 

 

eta: For the record, I have no issues with ringers on the show and never have. YMMV but I don't want to see two hours every week of poor to mediocre dancing. IMO, the show needs some celebrities every season, capable of delivering amazing performances. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[realdancemom]

When Maks left for one season, they had Gleb as the tall pro.  It looks like Keo is now considered the tall pro with Maks and Gleb gone.  It seems like the pros have their roles.  Val and Derek have partners with potential to make it far (now that they established themselves).  Mark sometimes does too but he also gets the conservative and/or young stars.  Poor Tony is usually stuck with the senior citizen or difficult partner.  Tristan and Artem also usually get older contestants.  Sasha will get short partners just based on his height.

 

Emma is like the women's version of Tony.  I don't think she's had one partner that has been a great dancer.  Bill made it far but it was because of his personality.   The other women take turns getting ringers or not so great partners.

[howmanywords]

Nope, sorry, Meryl still has her beat and Nicole years before. Nastia was a gymnast, a gymnast who hasn't competed in a few years by the way, she is not a dancer. Yes, she has advantages with her flexibility, strength and movement much like that Riker kid probably has the advantage of great musicality because he's a musician. And musicality is a big advantage to have in dance competition. But that does not make her a ringer imo.

 

But I've always felt the ringer label gets flown around quite liberally with regards to this show. Hell, in my opinion, if you think Nastia is such a big ringer then Alfonso was the ringerest ringer ever having danced with Michael Jackson at one point, or Corbin Bleu who studied with Debbie Allen at her famed dance school. Not only do I hardly consider Nastia a ringer but frankly the list of people with far more dancing background than her 

Absolutely.  Every single season there is always that one contestant who has the slightest bit of dance background and all of a sudden they are the biggest ringer ever. But yes the word "ringer" even in general does indeed get used too often.  Out of all the gymnasts we've had over the years I certainly dont think Nastia is the most accomplished in dance.

[CED9]

Absolutely. Every single season there is always that one contestant who has the slightest bit of dance background and all of a sudden they are the biggest ringer ever. But yes the word "ringer" even in general does indeed get used too often. Out of all the gymnasts we've had over the years I certainly dont think Nastia is the most accomplished in dance.

I think in a show like DWTS, the only real advantage the "ringers" have is the ability to learn choreography and thus have seemingly more impressive dances. Ballroom is a completely different ballgame to other dance.

[SnarkyTart]

eta: For the record, I have no issues with ringers on the show and never have. YMMV but I don't want to see two hours every week of poor to mediocre dancing. IMO, the show needs some celebrities every season, capable of delivering amazing performances. 

So much this.  If DWTS didn't deliver those amazing performances, I wouldn't be nearly the fan that I am.  Even the most controversial "ringers", such as Meryl, have been able to show improvement over the course of the season.  Whenever I see one come out of the starting gate as strong as Meryl or Alfonso, I get excited to see what they're going to be capable of at the finish line.  Barring injuries along the way, I'm rarely disappointed by the "ringers".  It's rare that a contestant with almost zero dance background ends up delivering performances that leave me cheering -- Kellie Pickler and Brooke Burke were two.  But, if I had to wait several years between seeing contestants like those, I wouldn't be a happy camper. 

[Rrrhumba]

"Out of all the gymnasts" Nastia is definitely the most trained 'dancer.' Shawn and Aly were both known as power gymnasts.

For non-gymnastics fans: in 2007/2008 the Shawn & Nastia rivalry was a big deal. Both girls went professional as teenagers and raced each other for endorsement deals and sponsors $. Nastia's USP was that she was more artistic and graceful, she had dance training and was quick to publicise in her comeback that she had worked on her floor routine with Travis Wall. Many gym fans expressed disappointment when Shawn got DWTS in 2008 and not Nastia but the general conclusion was that Nastia may have been too much of a ringer.

Now, Nastia can't have it both ways. You can't claim to have never danced when previously you've tried to play up your associations with award winning choreographers and implied you're the better gymnast because of your "dance" ability.

Nastia isn't the ringiest ringer to have rung on this show, but she is definitely a few rungs above Shawn, and definitely Aly, who I'd only classify as slightly above average.

[Kromm]

Well said Rrrhumba.  Better than I could have.  Maybe not the ringiest, but Nastia's entire rep was based on being the most dancer-like gymnast of her generation. And while we always have the "different types of dance are not the same" rigmarole, at the very least she combines the TWO traditional show ringer aspects of 1.) having SOME dance background of a different type and 2.) being a world-class athlete (thus having endurance far beyond most other contestants, as well as athletic discipline).  Ergo the feeling she's a major ringer, even if we can debate the "ringiest" thing, because having both of those in one contestant is a big deal.

[truthaboutluv]

Nastia pretty much stated in her opening package that she and Shawn had different styles because Shawn was more powerful as a gymnast while she was more graceful. So she really doesn't seem to be moving from the narrative of her being graceful and artistic. As I stated above, I don't think anyone is denying that Nastia has advantages - of course she does. It's the idea that she is this massive ringer, possibly the biggest we've had in years that I completely disagree with. I don't care how many little lessons she had to make her gymnastics routines more graceful and dancer-like. That to me does not compare to people who literally trained in dance - like Alfonso Ribero, Corbin Bleu, Nicole Scherzinger and yes Meryl David and Charlie White who were ice dancers. And for the record, I had no issues with any of these people on the show. And as I noted, it's interesting that no one is talking about Rumer's background. 

[RemoteControl88]

"Out of all the gymnasts" Nastia is definitely the most trained 'dancer.' Shawn and Aly were both known as power gymnasts.

For non-gymnastics fans: in 2007/2008 the Shawn & Nastia rivalry was a big deal. Both girls went professional as teenagers and raced each other for endorsement deals and sponsors $. Nastia's USP was that she was more artistic and graceful, she had dance training and was quick to publicise in her comeback that she had worked on her floor routine with Travis Wall. Many gym fans expressed disappointment when Shawn got DWTS in 2008 and not Nastia but the general conclusion was that Nastia may have been too much of a ringer.

Now, Nastia can't have it both ways. You can't claim to have never danced when previously you've tried to play up your associations with award winning choreographers and implied you're the better gymnast because of your "dance" ability.

Nastia isn't the ringiest ringer to have rung on this show, but she is definitely a few rungs above Shawn, and definitely Aly, who I'd only classify as slightly above average.

It's funny I really like watching the Olympics and I knew about Shawn/Nastia (Meryl & Charlie as well) before DWTS.  I think you summed it up very well the history of Nastia and what she's known for in the gymnastic world.  

 

A debate of what level of a ringer she is could be splitting hairs.  It's all relative to the season....unless you are comparing her against all other ringers in the history of the show...or all other gymnasts on the show...etc.  

 

For this season... compared to Riker & Rumer...I think Nastia has a clear advantage over both of them.  And I don't think that is a bad thing at all.  I think both Riker & Rumer bring musicality and performance value to their dances so it all balances out.  Nastia can hit some gorgeous lines and create beautiful pictures with her flexibility....but Riker's routine was so high energy and fun to watch...while I connected with the emotions of Rumers dance.

 

Having now seen Week 1 dances I'm excited for the season because I know Nastia, Rumer & Riker will each probably produce some memorable dances. 

[RemoteControl88]

 And for the record, I had no issues with any of these people on the show. And as I noted, it's interesting that no one is talking about Rumer's background.

 

From what I've heard her background includes aerial workouts and she learned a choreographed piece for show that she was in. Shes a singer so has some natural rhythm....I haven't heard about any kind of trained dance background for her.

 

Riker also being a musician has natural rhythm....but I've heard conflicting info about whether he's taken some form of dance class/lessons in his past.

[truthaboutluv]

I have heard that Rumer did some musical theater training when she was growing up which included acting and dance lessons. Which of course doesn't mean she can do ballroom as I imagine that stuff was probably more jazz like training. It's just as I've said, I think the ringer label sometimes gets thrown around too liberally and when one starts nitpicking on one, then you can point to someone else and say they are just as guilty. If Nastia being a gymnast and taking some dance classes in her gymnastics career makes her some huge ringer then yeah someone having musical theater training could also qualify, imo.

Edited March 23, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[RemoteControl88]

 If Nastia being a gymnast and taking some dance classes in her gymnastics career makes her some huge ringer then yeah someone having musical theater training could also qualify, imo.

 

Well to be fair she's done a bit more than just taking some dance lessons as you say.  She has some serious training in ballet. Below is an interview with her ballet coach and choreographer.  Her mother was a rhythmic gymnast, however I'm not sure if officially coached Nastia.  However, Nastia's gymnastic style looks similar to her mother's at times especially with the flexibility.

 

Nastia stood out from other gymnasts like Shawn and Aly because I think she really included her ballet & flexibility into her gymnastics.

 

Ok my Olympic nerd rant is over....lol.

 

http://www.gymnastike.org/coverage/234086-WOGA/video/72100-Nastia-Liukins-Ballet-Coach-Choreographer#.VRBFVPnF-HS

[realdancemom]

That's what I remembered about Nastia too.  Since her parents were Russian gymnasts, she danced more like a Russian gymnast.  Shawn and Aly were power tumblers.  You could tell from Nastia's routines that she had a lot of ballet training and it's evident when you watch Russian gymnasts too.  I also remember sportscasters talking about Nastia's ballet training during the Olympics.

 

I'm not going to say that she's the biggest ringer.  Dance-wise, I would think that's somebody like Corbin or Nicole.  She does have the unique combination of taking lots of dance and being an elite athlete.  However, I'm with those that don't mind ringers on the show.  I want to watch good dancing.  I don't want to watch a bunch of uncoordinated people.  This is not a real dance competition anyway.  Otherwise, Bill E. would have never made the finals.  It's very difficult for the judges to walk that fine line with Noah.  He doesn't want to be treated differently but at the same time, he is.  They can't be too harsh with him because viewers will get mad.  But he shouldn't score really high either.

Edited March 23, 2015 by realdancemom

[Kromm]

Hmm.  Maybe the debate should be less if Nastia is the biggest ringer ever and more that Nastia + Derek is such a power combo that it almost seems pre-ordained that they're in the final.

 

Then again, we often have a lesser variant of that level of surety.  This may just be that at a slightly higher level.

In other words, the show shouldn't be putting the ringers with the Golden Boy.

[RetailTherapy]

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I wasn't all that impressed with Nastia.  As typical of the past few seasons, her partner has been cruising along with the same old tired tricks of "hope you don't see" lifts and props to hide bad footwork.  She would have been better served by getting a pro who had even a fleeting interest in seeing her do well and not so much about him getting to the finals.

 

One could hope that there are others like me who are tired of seeing the same pro get the season's anticipated "ringer" each time and will cast their votes accordingly.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The really stupid thing about Derek allegedly trying to hide that lift with Nastia's skirt is that if she had just done an aerial without Derek touching her (which she could easily do!), it wouldn't count as a lift. So did he decide to put in an illegal lift so they would get docked in the scores and elicit some sympathy?

[Mbeaker]

Nastia doesn't need sympathy votes. Especially not in week 1. Derek has said many times that he cares more about creating a fun routine for the people watching from home, than what the judges say and score. I'm thinking he just saw it as a cool trick that he wanted in the routine. He could have just owned up to that because, of course, his skirt excuse was silly.

[truthaboutluv]

In other words, the show shouldn't be putting the ringers with the Golden Boy.

 

 

Derek has gotten plenty of people who weren't ringers - Bethany wasn't, Amy wasn't, Kelly wasn't - and people still complained. The fact is if we're being honest, yes Derek will always get people who are at least capable because yes the producers likely want him around and so no matter who he gets, some will find a reason to complain and cry unfairness. 

 

So did he decide to put in an illegal lift so they would get docked in the scores and elicit some sympathy?

 

 

I doubt it was for sympathy. I can't see anyone "feeling sorry" for the gorgeous gymnast many seem to expect to be amazing, who is paired with the five time champion. My guess is he threw it in because he wanted to and thought it would look cool and figured they might get called out and docked for it and that's fine. Note, other than his weird, crazy tantrum years ago on his season with Shannon, Derek rarely gets upset or argues when he's marked down for something because he usually does it knowing he might get called out for it but as long as the viewers like it and they get votes, it's fine. 

 

He could have just owned up to that because, of course, his skirt excuse was silly.

 

 

Well he kind of did. He just said he was hoping the skirt would have hid it.

Edited March 24, 2015 by truthaboutluv