The Official Re-Read Project: Book 2: A Clash Of Kings

[Lady S.]

I get his reasoning, I just disagree with it and I think it's just guilt-avoiding to say that Stannis is as much to blame as the Lannisters themselves. As far as the common people are concerned, every king is part of the problem but that doesn't mean they share equal blame.

[Avaleigh]

I'm sure you think the Field of Fire reference is a clue, but I think that would be a natural comparison for anyone. I have to inwardly shake my head at Tyrion thinking Stannis is to blame for his own men and Joffrey's burning alive. 

What stood out to me about the Field of Fire reference is that Tyrion thinks of how Aegon would have felt during the battle as opposed to having any thoughts on the Lannister king who was involved. Tyrion sees himself as the Aegon in this situation. I also see that it would be a natural comparison for anyone to make but think it's an nice little detail if Tyrion turns out to be a bastard after all. 

 

I also like how he and Cersei have similar reactions in terms of thinking that the wildfire weirdly beautiful.

[DigitalCount]

I get his reasoning, I just disagree with it and I think it's just guilt-avoiding to say that Stannis is as much to blame as the Lannisters themselves. As far as the common people are concerned, every king is part of the problem but that doesn't mean they share equal blame.

Yeah, this is the idea behind the modern concept of felony murder. You don't get to just break the law in a manner likely to get someone killed and then blame the lawful actors for the deaths that result from crossfire. Stannis has the advantage here of actually being the king by the rules everyone has agreed to. As annoying as he is, as insufferable, he is the king. Joffrey is fully Lannister and has no right under the law to the throne. Power may reside where men believe it to reside, but that sort of thinking is a luxury afforded by the agreement they have made to have a system they live within. By the rules of that system, Stannis is king.

The worst part is, Tyrion knows this to be a fact. He is at this point 100% certain of the truth of Joffrey's parentage. Maybe he has to act as he does out of family loyalty, but his thoughts are not a fair or accurate assessment of the situation.

[Avaleigh]

I know this isn't popular but I'm hesitant to call Stannis the rightful king by all the rules they've agreed upon because Dany is still alive. Did the people of the Seven Kingdoms not technically swear their allegiance to House Targaryen once upon a time, especially the noblemen? 

 

Stannis certainly expects his men to follow Shireen if he ends up dying, so to me this is just one more way that Stannis is basically a hypocrite. 

 

If the idea is that Stannis is simply following the new rules that were put in place by Robert the new guy in charge, then why is it wrong for the new people in charge to follow their own rules the way that Robert did?

 

I have to agree that they're equally to blame. It's not like Stannis is fighting to protect people at this point or is behaving in a way that indicates this is for the greater good. He wants a crown that he believes is rightfully his and if a bunch of people have to die to get his ass on that throne, then he's totally fine with that. Tyrion on the other hand seems to be fighting for survival because he knows that there's no reasoning with Stannis and that his head is going to be mounted on a wall along with Joffrey's and Cersei's if he doesn't help to fight back. It's win or die for Tyrion and he can't help which family he was born into. I feel like Stannis had more options in general than Tyrion had regarding the war. 

[Avaleigh]

Sansa VI

 

Osney Kettleblack comes into the Queen's Ballroom to give Cersei an update on the progress of the battle. Osney isn't good at whispering, so Sansa hears everything that he has to say and learns that the fleets are locked in battle and that Tyrion has given orders to raise the chain. A bunch of drunk people are looting down in Flea Bottom, so Bywater has sent some gold cloaks to deal with them. Cersei asks after Joffrey and is told that after he went to the sept to receive a blessing from the septon, he's been walking the walls with Tyrion while he tells the men to be brave and attempts to lift their spirits.

 

Cersei signals for more wine and Sansa notices how heavily she's been drinking. A young woman starts crying uncontrollably, so Cersei has Maester Frenken give the woman some dreamwine so that she can be put to bed. Cersei scoffs to Sansa about the woman's tears and says that her mother once told her that tears are a woman's weapon while a man's weapon is a sword. She mentions that Jaime once told her that he only truly feels alive when he's in battle or in bed.

 

Cersei claims that she'd much rather face swords in battle than sit around with a bunch of frightened women, and Sansa points out that Cersei asked these women to come. Cersei admits that she only invited them because certain things are expected of a queen and says that Sansa will have to go through the same motions if she ever marries Joffrey.

 

Sansa asks what will happen if the castle falls and Cersei replies that she knows Sansa would like that to happen very much. Cersei says that if she's permitted to yield to Stannis in person that this will spare them the worst. She says if the castle falls before Stannis arrives then she's pretty sure that her guests are going to be raped and possibly worse.

 

Sansa is horrified when Cersei says this and protests that the women in the ballroom are all unarmed and highborn. Cersei admits that their birth will protect them to a point and that many of the women will likely be ransomed, but says their protection is uncertain at best. Cersei says that men seem more inclined to seek flesh after a battle and thinks that while lowborn women like Lollys's maid are going to be the most at risk, even the old and ugly will suddenly seem as attractive as Sansa to a bunch of drunk and battle weary soldiers. Sansa seems surprised that Cersei is complimenting her looks.

 

“Try not to sound so like a mouse, Sansa. You’re a woman now, remember? And betrothed to my firstborn.” The queen sipped at her wine. “Were it anyone else outside the gates, I might hope to beguile him. But this is Stannis Baratheon. I’d have a better chance of seducing his horse.” She noticed the look on Sansa’s face, and laughed. “Have I shocked you, my lady?” She leaned close. “You little fool. Tears are not a woman’s only weapon. You’ve got another one between your legs, and you’d best learn to use it. You’ll find men use their swords freely enough. Both kinds of swords.”

 

The Kettleblack brothers return to the ballroom and Sansa notices how well they get along with everyone. The Kettleblacks are especially popular with serving women and Sansa has heard women say that Osmund is as strong as the Hound only younger and faster. Sansa wonders why she'd never heard of the Kettleblacks prior to Osmund being made a member of the Kingsguard.

 

Osney tells Cersei that the hulls with the wildfire have gone up and at least a hundred ships are on fire. Cersei asks after Joffrey again and is told that he's at the Mud Gate with Tyrion and the Kingsguard. Osney says that Joffrey spoke to the archers and gave them a few tips on how to handle a crossbow. Osney claims everyone agrees that Joffrey is a brave boy.

 

A groom and two female servants were caught trying to steal three of the king's horses in an effort to flee the city. Cersei tells Osfryd to have Ser Ilyn have the traitors' heads put on spikes as a warning to anyone else with similar ideas. Cersei tells Sansa that if she ever hopes to rule at Joffrey's side then she needs to learn to make the people fear her more than they fear the enemy. Sansa thinks that if she ever becomes queen that she'll make the people love her.

 

During dinner, Lollys eats too fast and pukes all over herself and Lord Rosby drinks and coughs until he passes out at the table. Cersei looks at Rosby in disgust and wonders why she bothered to demand his release.

 

Osfryd tells Cersei that there are some rich merchants in the square who are asking to take refuge in the castle. Cersei tells Osfryd to command the merchants to return to their homes and use the crossbowmen to kill a few so that they get the message; she won't have the gates opened for any reason.

 

Cersei starts babbling about how she wishes she could use a sword to deal with the men on her own and Sansa notices that the queen is starting to slur her words. Cersei reminisces on how she and Jaime used to look so much alike when they were children that they would dress up in each other's clothes and spend the entire day as the other. She says even their father couldn't tell them apart and she would wonder why she and Jaime would be treated so differently when they looked so much alike. She remembers the day that Jaime got his first sword and how she felt when she realized that she wouldn't be getting one of her own.

 

"...Jaime learned to fight with sword and lance and mace, while I was taught to smile and sing and please. He was heir to Casterly Rock, while I was to be sold to some stranger like a horse, to be ridden whenever my new owner liked, beaten whenever he liked, and cast aside in time for a younger filly. Jaime’s lot was to be glory and power, while mine was birth and moonblood.”

 

Sansa says that Cersei was still the Queen of all of the Seven Kingdoms and Cersei replies that queens are still women at the end of the day.

 

Cersei's wine cup is empty and when the page goes to give her a refill she turns her cup over and says that she wants to keep a clear head. When she's informed that Tyrion has gone to drive men away from the Mud Gate and that Joffrey is having the Antler Men flung into the river, she gives orders to have Joffrey brought back to the castle immediately. Osney makes a half assed attempt to protest and Cersei threatens him by saying that he and his brother can lead the next sortie if he doesn't do as he's told.

 

After dinner, there's entertainment from a singer and his songs move several of the women to tears. When Sansa's eyes grow moist, Cersei tells her that she should work on practicing her tears for Stannis. Cersei says things must be really bad for Team Lannister if Tyrion is out there leading the men, so they might as well be straightforward with each other during the time they have left. She tells Sansa that she knows about the treason she's been committing in the godswood.

 

Sansa tells herself not to look at Dontos and claims that she's only been going into the godswood to pray. Cersei says that it's treason that Sansa is praying against them and Sansa claims that she's been praying for Joffrey. Cersei questions why she would do that and sarcastically asks if it's because Joffrey is so sweet to her.

 

Cersei forces Sansa to drink some wine and tells her that maybe it will help her find the courage to face the truth. Sansa nearly gags as she's forced to down the sweet wine and feels dizzy after she drains her cup.

 

After Sansa finishes the drink, Cersei looks at her and confesses that she lied to her about the real reason Ser Ilyn is with them. She asks Sansa if she wants to hear the truth and then asks Ser Ilyn to tell Sansa why he's there. Ilyn opens his mouth and makes a kind of choking sound while Cersei speaks for him. She explains that Ilyn is there for them and that Stannis isn't going to have the chance to take either of them alive. Sansa notices Cersei's choice of words and gets confirmation that Cersei means to have Ilyn kill her as well if Stannis ends up winning.

 

Cersei advises Sansa to pray again for a different outcome and insists that House Stark isn't going to enjoy what happens if House Lannister falls.

[Jazzy24]

Cersei is beyond disgusting and repulsive in every way in this chapter. Poor Sansa having to be in the presence of someone like Cersei.

[Avaleigh]

Cersei is beyond disgusting and repulsive in every way in this chapter. Poor Sansa having to be in the presence of someone like Cersei.

Even though she's horrible in every way I think that Sansa is totally learning from Cersei because she's seeing what works and what doesn't. She knows that she doesn't want to turn into this woman and seems to already have better instincts than Cersei. The most obvious example is knowing that Cersei is wrong when it comes to her comments about whether or not it's better to be loved than feared but I feel like there are other examples.

 

It's the way she understands people in a way that Cersei is simply incapable. I think of the suspicion that Sansa has for the Kettleblacks whereas Cersei seems very quick to trust a trio of jumped up sellswords or the contempt Cersei has for the ladies who are under her protection whereas Sansa genuinely would be able to achieve the desired result that Cersei speaks of when she talks about how the women will talk about how brave, comforting, and courageous she is. IMO the person that Cersei was describing when she was talking about how these highborn women will tell their men how strong she was is really describing the Sansa that we get to see when she's in the sept singing, joining hands with random people, and being a kind of comforting presence. 

[Lady S.]

It's a little unsettling to read about Cersei touching Sansa and playing with her hair after admitting that she plans to have Sansa murdered out of pure spite.

 

I know this isn't popular but I'm hesitant to call Stannis the rightful king by all the rules they've agreed upon because Dany is still alive. Did the people of the Seven Kingdoms not technically swear their allegiance to House Targaryen once upon a time, especially the noblemen? 

 

Stannis certainly expects his men to follow Shireen if he ends up dying, so to me this is just one more way that Stannis is basically a hypocrite. 

 

If the idea is that Stannis is simply following the new rules that were put in place by Robert the new guy in charge, then why is it wrong for the new people in charge to follow their own rules the way that Robert did?

I think the idea is not that Dany is not just disqualified because she's a girl if that's what you're getting at, but that she and Viserys both lost their claims because they were the Mad King's children and the Mad King was rejected in favor of his aunt Rhaelle's line. Robert didn't make up new rules, he was acclaimed king by a sizeable coalition and the rest of the nobles accepted his kingship and agreed to serve him after he was crowned. I think it would be more hypocritical to acknowledge Robert as a true king but not care who his rightful heir was, unless one takes Renly's view that anyone should be eligible for the throne. Nobody agreed to a fully Lannister king or owed Cersei any allegiance. She was never going to give up power peacefully and I think a more devious method of wresting control away would have been difficult as she already considered Stannis an enemy and wanted to have him killed. She wasn't going to hand her kids over to Stannis the way Richard III was given his nephews.

[Jazzy24]

It's a little unsettling to read about Cersei touching Sansa and playing with her hair after admitting that she plans to have Sansa murdered out of pure spite.

I think the idea is not that Dany is not just disqualified because she's a girl if that's what you're getting at, but that she and Viserys both lost their claims because they were the Mad King's children and the Mad King was rejected in favor of his aunt Rhaelle's line. Robert didn't make up new rules, he was acclaimed king by a sizeable coalition and the rest of the nobles accepted his kingship and agreed to serve him after he was crowned. I think it would be more hypocritical to acknowledge Robert as a true king but not care who his rightful heir was, unless one takes Renly's view that anyone should be eligible for the throne. Nobody agreed to a fully Lannister king or owed Cersei any allegiance. She was never going to give up power peacefully and I think a more devious method of wresting control away would have been difficult as she already considered Stannis an enemy and wanted to have him killed. She wasn't going to hand her kids over to Stannis the way Richard III was given his nephews.

Actually Robert did make up new rules when he took the throne. He became an usurper the first Westeros ruler in almost three centuries that wasn't a Targaryen. Robert by taking the throne from the Targs set up new and very dangerous rules. And the Baratheons having Targ blood played very little in Robert being declared king it was might that got him that ugly chair.

Also Renly had it right that anyone who had the right sizable army, and the power to keep the throne has a right to it. This is the very very very dangerous precedent that Robert set up for Westeros concerning that ugly chair. By overthrowing the Targs and putting a new dynasty in(The Baratheons)Robert told Westeros that it is okay to overthrow the king and than sit on the throne. So for many years to come anybody who has a large army can bring about war for the throne.

[Avaleigh]

It's a little unsettling to read about Cersei touching Sansa and playing with her hair after admitting that she plans to have Sansa murdered out of pure spite.

 

I think the idea is not that Dany is not just disqualified because she's a girl if that's what you're getting at, but that she and Viserys both lost their claims because they were the Mad King's children and the Mad King was rejected in favor of his aunt Rhaelle's line. Robert didn't make up new rules, he was acclaimed king by a sizeable coalition and the rest of the nobles accepted his kingship and agreed to serve him after he was crowned. I think it would be more hypocritical to acknowledge Robert as a true king but not care who his rightful heir was, unless one takes Renly's view that anyone should be eligible for the throne. Nobody agreed to a fully Lannister king or owed Cersei any allegiance. She was never going to give up power peacefully and I think a more devious method of wresting control away would have been difficult as she already considered Stannis an enemy and wanted to have him killed. She wasn't going to hand her kids over to Stannis the way Richard III was given his nephews.

I agree with everything in Jazzy24's post. I feel that Robert made up new rules when he decided to take the throne. 

 

Stannis is very rigid when it comes to thinking about who is a traitor and who isn't. To me, by his own rules, he's a traitor. He doesn't think that his claim suddenly ends if he dies in the fight or when people reject him and decide that he isn't fit for the job. 

 

Renly had the support of a sizeable coalition of people and nobles who wanted him to wear the crown and were willing to fight for it. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Avaleigh

[benteen]

 

But this is Stannis Baratheon. I’d have a better chance of seducing his horse.

 

That line does make me laugh.

 

In Westeros, all that matters is power.  Aegon had power and he took the Seven Kingdoms.  Well, six of them anyway.  Robert overthrew the Targaryens by force of arms and make himself king.  Under the new dynasty, Stannis is the king although in truth, it's only who is the strongest and most successful who rules Westeros.

[nodorothyparker]

Still catching up, but I do like Tyrion's line that the fiery hell on the river is as much Stannis's work as his.  Sure, Tyrion deserves the lion's share of the blame for lack of a better word because he is the one who put the wildfire into play, but he's repelling an invasion that Stannis chose to make without any regard for who or how many might be killed in the process.  Men on both sides were going to die in large numbers one way or another once he declared himself the rightful king and set to attack the city.  The thing is that neither Tyrion or Stannis or really any of the big names at this point in the story really care all that much about the death and destruction they're raining down on everyone around them.  It's all about their right to keep or claim the throne and whether they have the means to do that.

 

One of the things I like so much about this series and particularly about the War of Five Kings is that you can make a pretty good case both for and against any of the claimants.  Is Dany's claim the best because of three centuries of Targaryen rule or was it invalidated by the rebellion and death of the mad king?  Is the Baratheon claim the best because they won it by might and it's now a clear matter of succession?  Is Renly's best because he has wide popular support and a strong coalition even though his claim successionwise is weak?  Is it military might and wealth and the fact that you're already sitting on the throne that makes a king? Joffrey's already sitting right there and at this point the only people who can really say for sure that he has no blood claim certainly aren't going to confirm it.

 

Varys sums up the whole mess pretty well when he says it's all about power and that power resides where men believe it resides.

[nodorothyparker]

Finally caught up.  Joffrey is such a child, whining about his ships being afire like it was a complete surprise that that would happen in a river battle using wildfire and then positively gleeful about torturing and flinging the Antler Men into the river.  Part of me wishes we could have seen Tyrion's great chain and the resulting fallout from it in the show battle.

 

Cersei's rather ugly and crass in her chapter, but she's drunk and not guarding her words as closely as she might and I think tells us quite a lot about herself and how her mind actually works.  It's all about appearances and inspiring fear for her.  Like in the earlier chapters when she and Tyrion were completely unable to fathom why the city's wealthy Antler Men would try to sell them out to Stannis, it doesn't occur to her at all here either that if they survive the night the rich merchants seeking refuge with the highborn aren't going to be feeling very charitable toward the crown after they're turned away and fired upon.  She has a huge amount of resentment about being born female and all its accompanying disadvantages in their society yet is horribly disparaging toward other women and what she perceives as their weaknesses.  The story she tells about her and Jaime as children is fascinating both as a great example of this and because it makes me wonder how much of their entire relationship, which we'll be told she was largely the instigator of and did much of the work to keep it going, is one giant fuck you to everything, to their father, even to Jaime himself because he stood to inherit everything while as she puts it she was to be sold and ridden.

 

I like that for a character who's often labeled stupid by detractors, Sansa's noticing a lot here and thinking it all through.  And yeah, that ending is much worse than it was painted on the show, where Ser Illyn Payne's presence is explained as a sort of mercy stroke alternative to the women being raped and tortured if Stannis's men break down the gates.  Cersei touching Sansa's hair and neck while telling her he's there to make sure she doesn't live to be free of the Lannisters even if the city falls is downright chilling.

Edited April 8, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Constantinople]

I know this isn't popular but I'm hesitant to call Stannis the rightful king by all the rules they've agreed upon because Dany is still alive. Did the people of the Seven Kingdoms not technically swear their allegiance to House Targaryen once upon a time, especially the noblemen?

Even in Medieval times there those who contended that kings were subject to the law, or that kings had what we would call a contract with his people, usually in the form of his coronation oath. Kings that violated the law or broke their oaths could be removed (that was one of William the Conqueror's justifications for overthrowing Harold II). Sometimes this meant the overthrown monarch's heir would become the next king, sometimes it meant jumping the queue in the line of succession and sometimes it meant a new royal family.

There was also the idea that actions affecting one's status were hereditary. For example, if a free man decide to become a serf, which they sometimes did for economic reasons, the man's descendants would be serfs through the end of time. If a nobleman turned traitor, his title and lands were seized and his heirs no longer had any legal claims to them. Kings might later restore the land and titles to someone in the traitor's family, but there was no legal requirement to do so. Similarly, the heirs to an overthrown king had no more rights to the kingdom than the overthrown king, i.e., zero.

Of course, these weren't universally held opinions, but there was no guarantee that the children of an overthrown monarch would be seen as having a legitimate claim to the throne.

For that matter, even in Westeros, the throne hasn't always passed in strict rules of traditional primogeniture. One of the Great Councils settled on Aegon V even though one of his dead older brothers had a living son, partly because his father was nuts (the guy who tried to turn into a dragon by drinking wildfire). Thus, even in Westeros, there's a precedent that insanity of one's parent extinguishes a child's claim to the throne. It also suggests that the realm, at least in the form of its premier nobles, has the right to choose the king. Robert's Rebellion was, in effect, a very bloody Great Council. Perhaps Robert should have held a Great Council after the rebellion, but it was a bit superfluous at that point.

So there's an argument to be made that Daenerys has no claim to the Iron Throne and Stannis is the rightful king.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Constantinople

[Avaleigh]

Tyrion XIV

 

Tyrion and his men are riding in formation and he has a moment where he nearly falls off of his horse before they even reach the enemy. When he lifts his axe he shouts "King's Landing!" and is soon killing men wherever he can. As he takes off half of one guy's head with his axe, the shock of the impact numbs his shoulder and he takes a moment to think that Shagga would probably laugh at him.

 

Pod and Mandon Moore are fighting by Tyrion's side and Tyrion can hear cheers from the wall as he and his men succeed in getting the attackers to drop the battering ram. Their foes are soon fleeing and Tyrion has a close call with an arrow as he starts looking around for Pod.

 

The Blackwater is still burning with wildfire and Ser Balon Swann is leading a group of men on the riverfront who are trying to push the enemy back into the water. Tyrion tells Moore to give the command to head for the Mud Gate and as they're all riding over, Tyrion can hear calls of "Halfman!" and wonders who taught the men to say this.

 

When Tyrion sees the fire everywhere he suddenly understands why the Hound was so afraid. It's increasingly chaotic and Tyrion is starting to think that he should have turned back. Men are crawling from the river so Tyrion leads his men over to start finishing them off. He kills a bunch of men and is starting to feel drunk with 'battle fever'. He thinks about what Jaime has to say about the subject.

 

“You don’t feel your wounds then, or the ache in your back from the weight of the armor, or the sweat running down into your eyes. You stop feeling, you stop thinking, you stop being you, there is only the fight, the foe, this man and then the next and the next and the next, and you know they are afraid and tired but you’re not, you’re alive, and death is all around you but their swords move so slowly, you can dance through them laughing.”

 

Tyrion knows that he's drunk with battle fever and basically wants the enemy to bring it. He kills several men who try to attack him and eventually encounters a gore covered Ser Balon. Ser Balon directs Tyrion's attention to the Blackwater and Tyrion is dismayed to see that hundreds of men are now able to cross the river because a bunch of wrecked ships are packed closely enough to form a kind of unstable bridge.

 

After Tyrion leads his men onto the bridge, he and Balon both end up being unhorsed and Tyrion loses his axe in the process. His horse has a broken leg and is screaming in pain, so Tyrion ends up slitting the poor animal's throat. He kills more men and starts using a broken spear at one point. Balon and Mandon are both fighting at Tyrion's side and soon the bridge begins to break apart.

 

Just as Tyrion realizes that the bridge is going to collapse and that the ship he's on is about to tear away, he feels the deck move and he finds himself sliding down into the water. He manages to climb out and eventually notices that he's been hit with an arrow. He focuses on trying to get off of the ship and hears someone calling his name. He tries to shout back to the voice for help as he clings to a rail and suddenly Mandon appears on the deck of the next ship. He reaches out and tells Tyrion to take his hand. Just as Tyrion is about to take Mandon's hand, he wonders why the knight is extending his left hand before Mandon slashes at his face and makes contact.

 

Mandon is about to go in for the kill when he's pushed overboard into the river by Pod. Pod leans over Tyrion and Tyrion thinks that it's Jaime and can't think of anyone else who would be willing to save him other than his brother. Pod tells Tyrion not to move and tells him that he's hurt. Tyrion is dazed and thinks it doesn't make sense that he's hearing Pod's voice.

[Lady S.]

The ending of this chapter always gets to me, with Tyrion thinking of Jaime because he can't imagine anyone else trying to save him. I also like the part at the beginning where he tries to protect Pod by keeping him away from the combat, before realizing it's no use.

[Avaleigh]

I kind of have to agree that there's a kind of inconsistency when it comes to Tyrion's physical strength. At first I thought there were only a couple of lines from the first book like when he does that bit of gymnast tumbling but for somebody who seems like he can barely make it up the stairs in certain chapters, Tyrion's physical issues don't seem to factor in much during this chapter. Not that I need to read anymore descriptions of Tyrion waddling, it's just the inconsistency that I can't help but notice. 

[benteen]

As much as I enjoyed this chapter, I have to admit reading about Tyrion in action also took me out of the story.  Tyrion at times is described as a deformed dwarf and someone who waddles when he walks.  I can see being on a horse giving him some advantage but even when he's not on a horse, in this chapter he's the second coming of Jaime Lannister, cutting down men left and right.  I just don't buy it and it seems to be a Mary Sue (or in this case Gary Stu) moment for GRRM's favorite character.  It doesn't mean I didn't like the chapter.  I just didn't buy Tyrion could fight like this.  The show was much more realistic about his fighting ability.

 

I forgot to mention earlier but the Hound riding his boat into the water, up a gangplank and into a ship, cutting down men left and right is awesome.  I completely understand why they didn't film something like that on the show.  It would have dangerous as hell to both the stunt performers and the horses.  But damn...that was an awesome moment in the book. 

 

It's a bold move too, something you would see reserve for the likes of traditional heroes like Barristan.

 

On the subject of the right to rule, I've seen it argued on other message boards that Robert and company were justified to rebel against Aerys because Aerys have broken a kind of contract a liege is supposed to have with those under them.  Basically executing Rickard and Brandon without any kind of a trial and wanting to do the same to Robert and Ned.  The idea being even a King can do that to his Lords without giving them at least the trial by combat.

 

One thing is clear...Tyrion, Stannis...none of them give a damn about the smallfolk.  The only person who shows any kind of concern for them is Edmure, which makes him a truly worthy leader even though he is not a great leader.

Edited April 8, 2016 by benteen

[nodorothyparker]

I have to chalk up a lot of Tyrion's battle antics to adrenaline and knowing you either do it or die and try not to think too much about it beyond that or yeah, it quickly becomes too ridiculous that this dwarf with twisted legs who often exhausts himself on stairs is suddenly Jaime, Ser Barristan, and reincarnated Robert all rolled into one.  I know I've read somewhere that Martin later acknowledged when he wrote the first book he didn't have a clear understanding of just what Tyrion's physical limitations might be, but this just feels more like he was writing heroics for his favorite character because he could.

 

I like the Hound moment too.  I also thought it was a realistic touch that someone who had been burned horribly as a child took one look at the fiery hell that they'd turned the river into and thought nope, no, hell no. Fight your own damn battle.  One of Tyrion's few coherent thoughts here shows that he got that too.

 

If Tyrion is right, and I'm pretty sure we're supposed to believe that he is in thinking that Cersei sent Mandon Moore to kill him, that makes her all the more of an awful nitwit.  We know Tywin's not really going to care if he's killed, but putting the brother-sister thing aside this is the person who's launched a fairly decent defense of your city with no real experience or standing army to speak of while your stupid son swanned around and couldn't think of anything more productive to do than catapult Antler Men.  If you somehow manage to not end up with your own head on a spike, someone's going to have to clean up all the mess when it's all over with.  The Lannisters just never ever stop being their own worst enemies.

Edited April 8, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[benteen]

Unrealistic heroics aside, I did like Tyrion getting caught up with battle fever and understanding the thrill Jaime got when he fought.  It's a good moment of understanding.

[nodorothyparker]

I like it too.  You throw in Tyrion's thinking that only Jaime would come to rescue him at the end and you get picture of familial affection that's generally often missing in Lannister interactions.  So often they don't seem like they even talk to each other so it's nice to see here that they do at least about some things.

[Hecate7]

Finally caught up.  Joffrey is such a child, whining about his ships being afire like it was a complete surprise that that would happen in a river battle using wildfire and then positively gleeful about torturing and flinging the Antler Men into the river.  Part of me wishes we could have seen Tyrion's great chain and the resulting fallout from it in the show battle.

 

Cersei's rather ugly and crass in her chapter, but she's drunk and not guarding her words as closely as she might and I think tells us quite a lot about herself and how her mind actually works.  It's all about appearances and inspiring fear for her.  Like in the earlier chapters when she and Tyrion were completely unable to fathom why the city's wealthy Antler Men would try to sell them out to Stannis, it doesn't occur to her at all here either that if they survive the night the rich merchants seeking refuge with the highborn aren't going to be feeling very charitable toward the crown after they're turned away and fired upon.  She has a huge amount of resentment about being born female and all its accompanying disadvantages in their society yet is horribly disparaging toward other women and what she perceives as their weaknesses.  The story she tells about her and Jaime as children is fascinating both as a great example of this and because it makes me wonder how much of their entire relationship, which we'll be told she was largely the instigator of and did much of the work to keep it going, is one giant fuck you to everything, to their father, even to Jaime himself because he stood to inherit everything while as she puts it she was to be sold and ridden.

 

 

Cersei's story about trading clothes with Jaime made me wonder what Jaime learned, because honestly the brothers Lannister have always seemed to me like the two most feminist male characters in the whole narrative, Syrio Forel notwithstanding.

[Lady S.]

Cersei's story about trading clothes with Jaime made me wonder what Jaime learned, because honestly the brothers Lannister have always seemed to me like the two most feminist male characters in the whole narrative, Syrio Forel notwithstanding.

I think Jon Snow or Sam Tarly better deserve that title, but really, none of the characters can be called feminist since they are all products of a feudalistic patriarchy where gender equality would be a laughable foreign concept. A certain joke about a male feminist walking into a bar and falling because the bar was set so low comes to mind. In a family ruled by Tywin "gangrapes make good lessons" Lannister and whose most prominent woman is Cersei "hahaha everyone but me is getting raped if the city is sacked" Lannister, the bar is set pretty damn low, but least gross =/= feminism.

 

If Tyrion is right, and I'm pretty sure we're supposed to believe that he is in thinking that Cersei sent Mandon Moore to kill him, that makes her all the more of an awful nitwit.  We know Tywin's not really going to care if he's killed, but putting the brother-sister thing aside this is the person who's launched a fairly decent defense of your city with no real experience or standing army to speak of while your stupid son swanned around and couldn't think of anything more productive to do than catapult Antler Men.  If you somehow manage to not end up with your own head on a spike, someone's going to have to clean up all the mess when it's all over with.  The Lannisters just never ever stop being their own worst enemies.

Are we supposed to share Tyrion's perspective on Cersei, though? I think he understands her very well but they're both pretty biased by emotion, though he's nowhere near as irrational as she is and I think that, prior to Tyrion XII, he would have gladly forgiven most of their past if she'd truly accepted him as an ally. I've seen other people point out the oddness of this never coming up in Cersei's PoV. She gives insight into her past before she ever was a PoV and bitterly thinks of all the foes and obstacles she's endured, but she never thinks of her idiot KG friend who couldn't even manage to murder a dwarf properly. In her mind, Joffrey would still be alive and she herself would be saved if Mandon Moore had killed Tyrion when he was supposed to, yet she never thinks of that failure or even obliquely refers to it as she obsesses about Tyrion. Unlike the bastardicide, I'm not sure the show was whitewashing Cersei by blaming this one on Joffrey. There's also the third fan theory that Moore's being a knight of the Vale is significant and that, before leaving for Highgarden, Littlefinger induced him to off Tyrion if he ever got the chance. Honestly, none of these theories are really satisfactory to me, just like the reveal of the assassination attempt on Bran still left me unsatisfied, but I lean toward Joffrey being the answer to this one as well as Bran's because it was so stupidly done. 

 

Anyway, back to Tyrion's unrealistic battle fever (I too thought he was supposed to have an advantage ahorse at first, but then he's also somehow a killing machine on the bridge on ships), what I've been thinking about is how he and Jaime are so often contrasted as Tywin's heirs, but would Tywin have been this bold even when he was a young knight? Certainly the calm and deliberate rearguard-leading lord his children know wouldn't have been anywhere near the bridge of ships. In this chapter I think Tyrion was purely Jaime writ small, not Tywin writ small.

[Avaleigh]

Sansa VII

 

Lancel is telling Cersei that they've lost the battle. Cersei asks her cousin to inform Tyrion of this and Lancel gives her the news that Tyrion is more than likely dead. Lancel is covered in blood and says that Tyrion was on the bridge of boats while it was breaking apart. He says that Mandon Moore is lost too and no one knows where the Hound is. Lancel asks Cersei why she gave the order to have Joffrey brought back to the castle. He says that the men lost all heart once they saw Joffrey leaving and now hundreds of gold cloaks are trying to make a run for it.

 

Osney says that there's fighting on both sides of the river now and says the battle is all confused and no one is sure exactly what's going on. The enemy are trying to ram the King's Gate open and Osney confirms that the gold cloaks are deserting the walls and even killing their own officers. Flea Bottom is in a full blown riot and there are mobs of people at two other gates fighting to be let out.

 

Sansa worries about how she's going to lose her head just as Joffrey will. She looks around for Ser Ilyn but doesn't know where he's gone. She's sure that she can feel his presence and is convinced that he's going to cut off her head.

 

Cersei gives the order to raise the drawbridge and says that no one is allowed to enter or leave the Maegor's holdfast without her permission. Osfryd asks about the women who left to pray and Cersei replies that these women chose to leave her protection. She comments that maybe the gods will defend the women since they've been praying.

 

When Cersei is told that Joffrey is at the castle gatehouse commanding the crossbowmen, she immediately demands to have him brought back to the holdfast. Lancel is furious when Cersei says this and refuses saying that they'll have another Mud Gate situation on their hands. Cersei tells Lancel to prove that he's a Lannister by doing what she says. Lancel pleads with Cersei to allow Joffrey to stay and says that he'll keep the king by his side, but Cersei isn't having it. She gives his wound a vicious slap and tells him to get out of her way; Lancel nearly passes out from the pain.

 

As Cersei leaves the room, she doesn't so much as look at Sansa and Sansa thinks this means that Cersei has forgotten about her. She thinks that Ser Ilyn is going to kill her and thinks that Cersei won't even notice if it happens.

 

When Cersei leaves, the atmosphere in the ballroom turns to despair. One old woman cries that the battle must be lost if the queen is leaving and a bunch of kids start crying. Sansa looks around at everyone and sees that the room is full of fear. She wonders if she should stay or go after Cersei and attempt to plead for her life.

 

Sansa stands up and tells everyone not to be afraid. She says that Cersei has given the order to raise the drawbridge and points out that they're in the safest place in the city. She says that their men are continuing to fight bravely and that Joffrey is unhurt. She lies and tells them that Cersei is going to return and then tells Moon Boy to make them all laugh.

 

Sansa commands two serving men to help Lancel and one of the men looks her for a moment before turning around and running. More servants begin to bail, so Sansa and one serving man manage to get Lancel on his feet so that he can be brought to Maester Frenken. Sansa feels like she's being stupid for helping Lancel but admits to herself that she doesn't want to see him dead.

 

Ser Dontos eventually tells Sansa to return to her room and says that she'll be safer there. She briefly considers asking Dontos to defend her but decides that he'd only end up dying with her.

 

Once she's inside of her room, she watches a little of the battle from her window and then decides to go to sleep. She thinks when she wakes that someone will tell her whether or not she'll be allowed to live. She whispers her direwolf's name and wonders if she'll meet Lady again in an afterlife.

 

Sansa notices something move behind her and soon a hand is grabbing her wrist. She tries to scream but her mouth is covered, and the Hound tells her that he'll kill her if she screams. The Hound is super drunk and asks Sansa if she wants to know who's winning the battle. He tells her that he's lost and Sansa realizes that she's never seen him so intoxicated before. She also wonders what he wants and why he was sleeping in her bed. She asks him what he's lost and he replies that he's lost everything and wants to leave King's Landing. She asks him where he's going to go and he says that he'll probably go north.

 

Sansa asks the Hound why he's come to her room and he tells her it's because she once promised him a song. She tells him that she can't and asks him to let her go. She says that he's scaring her and he tells her that everything scares her. He forces her to look at him and she has a moment where she thinks about how awful he smells.

 

“I could keep you safe,” he rasped. “They’re all afraid of me. No one would hurt you again, or I’d kill them.” He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened. “Still can’t bear to look, can you?” she heard him say. He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. “I’ll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said.” His dagger was out, poised at her throat. “Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life.”

 

The fear is starting to intensify for Sansa and no songs are coming to mind. She wants to scream at him not to kill her and feels the dagger pressing against her throat. She doesn't sing about Florian and Jonquil and instead sings the hymn to the Mother. She can't remember all of the verses and when she stops singing she fears that he's going to kill her. The Hound doesn't say a word and finally takes the dagger away from her throat.

 

Something makes Sansa decide to cup the Hound's cheek and she can feel the tears on his face mixed in with the blood. He calls her "Little Bird" once more and gets up from the bed. He rips off his cloak and leaves the room. 

 

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering.

 

Sansa stays on the floor for awhile and only gets up when she hears the ringing of the bells in the city. She wonders what the bells mean and goes over to her window to look. The bells sound different than they did when Robert died. The sound is joyous and Sansa can hear cheering from the streets. Dontos comes to her room all drunk and excited to tell her that the city has been saved. Stannis's host has been broken and Stannis is either dead or has fled. Dontos say they ought to be celebrating and asks her if she has any wine.

 

Sansa shakes Dontos and asks him to tell her what's happened. Dontos explains that all of the might of Highgarden and Casterly Rock joined the fight and were able to overwhelm Stannis's men. Dontos says that the vanguard basically won the fight and excitedly tells Sansa that it was Renly who led them.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Avaleigh]

This is the chapter that has me convinced that Sansa will be queen and is the YMB(Q) from the prophecy. She's doing everything that Cersei should be doing in this chapter right down to making sure that Lancel is taken care of. I love this side of Sansa's personality and that's why I cringe when she says that she'll teach her children to hate Lannisters because I think/hope that she's ultimately going to be better than that.  

 

I really like the moment where she's choosing between staying in the ballroom or going after Cersei to beg for her life. She doesn't choose the option where she's just thinking about saving herself. Instead she reaches out to others and does what she can to try and comfort them. It's things like this that make me love her character. 

 

Even though their situation is totally frightening there are a few moments with the servants that are kind of funny. Like Sansa asking that one guy for help only for him to turn and run away and take the wine with him. Or the guy she bumps into who's stealing candlesticks and jewel covered cups.  

 

Lancel really does try here with Cersei for all of the good it does him. Logic never works with that bitch. He tells her that Joffrey is at risk either way so why not have him stay and try to keep the men from breaking. She's just so dumb. I would have enjoyed getting a POV with Cersei's thoughts about the battle though just because I think it would be funny. 

 

I just can't ship Sansa and the Hound. Even taking away the fact that she's a child (which I can't personally do), this guy is putting a knife to her throat. It didn't exactly help that he was reeking of vomit, booze, and blood. 

 

That being said, I love the moment with the cloak and wonder if it means anything.  

 

Another moment that made me laugh was Dontos asking a twelve year old girl if she has any wine on her. 

[Lady S.]

Even though their situation is totally frightening there are a few moments with the servants that are kind of funny. Like Sansa asking that one guy for help only for him to turn and run away and take the wine with him. Or the guy she bumps into who's stealing candlesticks and jewel covered cups.  

I like those rare times when Cersei's predictions come true. Even a broken clock is right twice a day and even the unhinged Evil Queen can't be wrong about everything.

[John Potts]

Well Cersei WAS right about the fact that if the city fell, every woman would be raped, so there's that... Of course she was only saying it because, as the saying doesn't go, "If you can't make yourself happy, make somebody else miserable!" Sansa also shows that she'd actually be a good Queen, doing a far better job of keeping up the spirits of the women than Cersei was. Scenes like these really make you see how Sansa IS learning from her experience and why her storyline on the show is so disappointing - all she is is a victim of others (Yes, as of the end of Book 5 she's still at the mercy of others but she's got at least some influence on her situation).

[nodorothyparker]

The atmosphere in this chapter is great, from Sansa's descriptions of everything outside being on fire of various colors to all the random drunkenness and panic and people trying to flee when it seems all is lost.  Sansa does do a nice job here of trying to maintain calm.  What an awful position she's in though.  If the Lannisters lose, she has to fear being raped or beheaded and if they win there's still that marriage to Joffrey hanging over her head.

 

Cersei likes to make pronouncements to show how wise and all knowing she supposedly is but she doesn't really do anything but repeat conventional wisdom about war in these chapters, and as we see the moment it looks like things are going bad all that bravado is gone and all she can think to do is run and order her miserable kid to run as well.  For being a wounded kid himself, Lancel here is trying to give her some decent advice and get her to see the bigger picture, but of course she's awful to him as well.

 

I'm fascinated by whatever's going on with the Hound here.  In the middle of all the fire and blood and death, he chose to hide out in the room of the one person in the past he's derided for her innocence and naivety.  Something about Sansa resonates with him even if he shows it in typical Hound fashion by being gross and threatening.  I don't go in for the shipping either, but I can sort of see from this chapter why some people do.  I had forgotten until this reread that his offer to take her with him when he escapes Kings Landing was a show only thing.  It could probably be implied in his line about how "I could keep you safe," but he never comes out and asks and she certainly never takes it as any kind of offer.

[vibeology]

This is one of my favourite chapters of the entire series. I love Sansa here and am so proud of her. She isn't someone who can go into battle and kick asses, but she excels at her own role in the fight. She steps up and tried to lift spirits and maintain calm. She understands how her actions will change the mood of the room and behaves in a way to maintain as much order as possible. She's never been in anything close to this situation and while I'm sure she's heard a few bits of stories from the past, the truth is none of her female role models could actually prepare her for this. Cersei, for all her talk in this chapter and the ones before, wasn't in King's Landing last time this happened. As far as I can tell, even during the rebellion, she was pretty safe at Casterly Rock and the Ironborn uprising while Robert was King happened far from where she was living. Catelyn spent most of the Rebellion at Riverrun, so she probably had more experience with this sort of thing, but even there the danger was never as serious or real. Sansa actually turns to her romantic ideals and pulls off something pretty amazing.

 

The stuff with Lancel is impressive too. Here's this guy who we've seen be intimidated over and over by his older and more powerful cousins, but when the heat of battle is on, he tries to stand up to Cersei and do what's best for the city. Lancel is still a pretty young guy and in his family there clearly isn't any nurturing of talent so the fact that he shows real leadership is very impressive. Then Sansa gets him medical help, showing that for all of her "I hate all Lannisters" talk (which does get worse for many good reasons later in the story) Sansa isn't the sort of person who can leave anyone to die.

 

Then the scene with the Hound happens and I love it. I'm not a shipper because he's a pretty awful person, the age difference is gross and a few other reasons but I do like seeing what Sansa and the Hound bring out in each other. Once again, she's in way over her head yet somehow manages to instinctively do the right thing in a difficult moment.

[Avaleigh]

Daenerys V

 

Jhiqui is braiding Dany's hair and adds a bell to the end of the braid when she's finished. Dany tells her handmaid that she's won no victories yet but Jhiqui says that she won one over the warlocks. Dany thinks that the House of the Undying was Drogon's victory but keeps the thought to herself since she knows the Dothraki will hold her in higher esteem if she starts adding bells to her hair.

 

Dany leaves Rahkaro in charge of guarding the dragons and her people, and then sets off with Jorah and her bloodriders to the waterfront. As they travel through the city, Dany can tell that she is unloved and thinks about how Xaro has told her that the warlocks are looking to make a move against her. Dany reminds Xaro that he basically told her that warlocks aren't supposed to be much of a threat and he replies that he isn't as sure about that as he once was. He tells her that glass candles that haven't burned for a thousand years are burning, ghost grass is growing, and implies that a warlock has deliberately driven a Qartheen noblewoman mad.

 

Xaro tells Dany that it'll be better for her to leave Qarth altogether and repeats his offer of marriage. Dany knows that he only wants to get his hands on one of her dragons and again refuses the offer. Xaro's expression turns cold and he tells Dany to leave. She asks him where she should go and he says anywhere that's far from Qarth.

 

Dany thinks about how she's lingered too long in Qarth and of how restless her people have become. Ever since the collapse of the House of the Undying, the earlier welcome that the city gave Dany has turned sour and now the Qartheen are starting to think that Dany and her dragons are dangerous. The Tourmaline want Dany expelled from the city and the Ancient Guild of Spicers are calling for her death.

 

When contemplating where she'll go next, Dany asked Xaro if he will give her a ship and he responds by offering to give her ten ships for one dragon. Dany asks Xaro if he would ask a mother to sell one of her children and he says he doesn't see why not since a mother can always make another child; he adds that mothers sell their children every day. He increases the offer to twenty ships for one dragon but Dany refuses and says even if he offered her a hundred ships that she'd still say no.

 

Eventually, she tells Xaro that one of her dragons would be roughly worth a third of the ships in the entire world and he tells her that the trip through the House of the Undying must have turned her mad. Dany hasn't seen Xaro since this conversation. He only delivers messages to her through his seneschal and each message is icier than the last. He tells her to get out of his house, he tells her he's done with her people freeloading off of him, and he takes back all of the gifts he's ever given her. Dany is relieved that she had the good sense not to accept his offer of marriage.

 

Dany thinks again about her experience in the House of the Undying and wonders about the three treasons the warlocks mentioned. She feels certain that the first treason was from Mirri Maz Duur but doesn't think that Pyat and Xaro qualify for being the second and third treason.

 

Her bell rang softly, and Dany found her thoughts returning to the Palace of Dust once more, as the tongue returns to a space left by a missing tooth. Child of three, they had called her, daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire. So many threes. Three fires, three mounts to ride, three treasons. “The dragon has three heads,” she sighed. “Do you know what that means, Jorah?”
“Your Grace? The sigil of House Targaryen is a three-headed dragon, red on black.”

 

Dany says there are no three headed dragons and Jorah says that the three heads were Aegon and his sisters. Jorah asks Dany why she cares about what those lying warlocks would tell her but Dany can't stop thinking about the visions.

 

“A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood... what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer’s dragon, you said. What is a mummer’s dragon, pray?” “A cloth dragon on poles,” Dany explained. “Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight.”

 

Dany talks about how she saw Rhaegar in one of the visions and mentions how Rhaegar talked about the song of ice and fire and about how his infant son is the 'prince who was promised'. Jorah says that any hope of Prince Aegon being the prince who was promised died on the day the Lannisters had the baby's skull smashed in. Dany knows about the manner of Aegon's death and brings up the murder of little Rhaenys too. She mentions that there was no Visenya for this next generation and thinks again about how the dragon has three heads. She asks Jorah if he knows what the song of ice and fire is but he says it's a song that he's never heard before.

 

Once they're on the waterfront, Dany and Jorah go to speak to the ship captains while Aggo and Jhogo are left behind to watch the horses. The captains that Dany speaks to aren't receptive. Some outright laugh in her face, one doesn't believe she is who she says she is, another thinks that dragons are too dangerous to transport, and another is okay with taking the dragons but balks at the idea of having any Dothraki people on his ship. There are a couple of captains who seem willing but the price they are asking is way too high, and the other captains who are willing don't have ships that will suit Dany's needs.

 

Jorah notices that two men have been following them and gives Dany a discreet alert. Dany can see that one of the men appears to be from Westeros while the other has the look of a eunuch. She remembers that the Usurper offered a lordship to the man who successfully kills her and wonders if this is why the two men are so far from home. She also considers that they might have been sent by the warlocks. 

 

The men continue to follow Dany and Jorah and soon a Qartheen man steps in front of her to present her with a beautifully carved wooden box. Dany takes it and once she opens the box she sees a scarab that appears to be made of onyx and emerald. As she goes to touch it, the man who handed her the gift says, "I'm so sorry." Suddenly, the scarab unfolds and starts hissing at her.

 

The scene turns chaotic and a few things happen at once. The box flies out of Dany's hands, she cries out in pain and clutches her wounded hand, other people start screaming and pushing to get out of the way, and Dany soon hears the scarab hissing again. Aggo rushes over, Jhogo cracks his whip, and Jorah starts fighting with the eunuch who was following Dany.

 

The old man who was following Dany kneels and tells her that the scarab is dead. He apologizes for hurting her and explains that he had to knock the box out of her hand before it was too late. Aggo and Jhogo both attack the old man, tell Dany that they saw him strike her, and ask her if she wants him dead.

 

Dany gets Jorah and the eunuch to stop fighting and explains to everyone that the old man and eunuch were trying to help her. She realizes that the Qartheen man who gave her the box was a Sorrowful Man and that the creature inside of the box was actually a manticore.

 

Dany asks the old man his name and he introduces himself as Arstan. The eunuch's name is Belwas and he hails from the fighting pits of Meereen. Belwas says that he allows men to cut him once before he kills them and asks Dany to look at his numerous scars if she wants to get an idea of how many men he's killed.

 

Dany learns that Illyrio sent Belwas and is told that Arstan is there to squire for Belwas. Dany notes that Arstan is from from Westeros and he tells her that was born in the Dornish Marches. Jorah tells Arstan that he's a bit old to be a squire and Arstan reveals that he's seen Jorah fight before including during tourneys held at Lannisport and Pyke. Jorah frowns at Arstan and tells him that he looks familiar.

 

More introductions are made and Dany tells the newcomers that they're welcome. She asks why Illyrio sent them and Arstan says that they were sent to find Dany and bring her back to Pentos. He goes on to say that the Seven Kingdoms need Dany now that Robert is dead and Belwas informs her that they've already hired three ships to take them. Dany says that she'll tell her people to get ready to leave and says that she wants to rename the ships that are going to bring her home. Arstan asks her which names she would prefer.

 

“Vhagar,” Daenerys told him. “Meraxes. And Balerion. Paint the names on their hulls in golden letters three feet high, Arstan. I want every man who sees them to know the dragons are returned.”

Edited April 12, 2016 by Avaleigh

[Avaleigh]

I like that we got a mention of the glass candles burning. 

 

I think it's forgotten that Illyrio had anything to do with sending Belwas and I'm curious how he would have reacted if Dany had returned. 

 

I'm sure I should know but I'm blanking on who the dead man at the prow of a ship is supposed to be referencing. 

 

I know he was just pissed and annoyed that he wasn't getting what he wanted but Xaro's line about how the House of the Undying has left a madness in Dany stood out to me all the same. 

 

That one guy had no idea what he was in for trying to sell Dany that platter. I kind of laughed when she bought it anyway and wondered what she'd do with it. Then he gets the fright of his life and has a brush with a manticore and pisses himself in fear. I thought it was nice that Dany gave him a silver after all was said and done. 

 

I like how Jorah is instantly suspicious of this old squire. 

 

ETA:

 

We're up to everyone's final POV. Only six chapters left. Arya is up next. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Avaleigh

[vibeology]

I feel like if Dany had gone back to Illyrio right away that would have worked for him too. He was sending for her after all. I assume his plan would have been to marry Dany to Aegon to give him more legitimacy and access to the dragons and give her the sellswords that are loyal to Illyrio (and the Blackfyres) Then he'd send them over to Westeros as soon as Varys sent word that the timing was right. I can see that working out if they showed up once Joffrey dies. Tommen is young enough and the war has left a big mess; I can see Westeros responding to Targs with dragons including some families who fought for Robert in the rebellion.

 

The actual problem with Illyrio's plan is there's no way Dany just goes along with marrying Aegon and becoming a Queen with no power. She's gotten used to being the one in charge and I don't see her agreeing to marry someone who will have a better claim than her. She might marry him eventually but not before she takes Westeros herself and keeps the power.

[Avaleigh]

At this point in the story I can see Dany maybe being receptive to the idea of teaming up with Aegon and even marrying him since she keeps wondering about what she saw in the House of the Undying. I can't decide if she'd make the connection of the mummer's dragon and feel like she'd be inclined to think/hope that her nephew did indeed survive. She seems like someone who would be beyond thrilled to think that she isn't alone after all in terms of family. 

 

Where I see her balking is upon actually meeting Aegon. I can't help but suspect that she'd be deeply unimpressed with how childish he seems at times.  

 

Post acquiring her Unsullied though I'm kind of inclined to agree that she wouldn't be as interested in sharing power. 

[Lady S.]

I'm sure I should know but I'm blanking on who the dead man at the prow of a ship is supposed to be referencing. 

Nah, that's one of the more mysterious parts of the Undying babble. Unlike the mummer's dragon or the blue rose in ice, I don't think there's any consensus on that one.

[nodorothyparker]

Before she's acquired the Unsullied or had a chance to rule much of, well, anything?  I have to think she would have at least seriously considered any Illyrio plan to marry her to Aegon or hell, even the Martell plan to marry her off to Quentyn if it would have speeded up getting her back to Westeros,  She's seriously wearing out her welcome in Qarth and we're only a couple of chapters off of her remembering how Viserys spent his entire life with his hand out and got nothing to show for it.  She's rightly wary of a similar fate because right now she's really queen of nothing other than having an entourage and some still fairly small dragons.  But of course that begs the question of where the hell any of these plans were when she was being sold off to Khal Drogo in the first place.

 

After she's got an army and a taste of ruling in her own right, it would likely be a much harder sell.  Probably not impossible though because as we saw she did eventually give in and marry Hizdahr for purely political reasons.

[Avaleigh]

Arya X

 

Now that Roose Bolton is running the things at Harrenhal lots of people have lost their heads and Arya thinks about what's happened to various people ever since the takeover. Maester Tothmure is killed for sending ravens to the Lannisters to inform them of the fall of Harrenhal, Lucan the armorer is killed for making weapons for the Lannisters, Goodwife Harra for giving orders for the Lannister soldiers to be served, and the steward for giving Tywin the keys to the Harrenhal's vault. Pia and the other women who had sex with Lannister soldiers are stripped, shaved, and thrown together so that they can be used by any man who wants them.

 

Arya has an encounter with Goodwife Amabel who has been half crazed ever since Harra's murder. Amabel is angry with Arya and tells her that she's going to end up being treated like Pia when Roose Bolton falls. She threatens to sexually assault Arya herself and Arya tells the woman that if she threatens her again she'll kill her.

 

Gendry sees Arya looking at the tarred and decapitated heads one day and asks her if she's proud of her work. Gendry is angry because he liked Lucan and Arya is upset that he's blaming her. Gendry says that things weren't as bad under Ser Amory and Arya admits to herself that she can't disagree with him. Part of her wishes that she'd gone across the narrow sea with Jaqen.

 

Elmar Frey calls to Arya to help him move a barrel and then tries to order her to help him with his duties as squire, but she tells him that she needs to bring water to Roose. She thinks that Elmar can be friendly when he wants help but knows that he ultimately sees himself as being above her because he's a squire and she's a serving girl. He tells her how he's a trueborn son of Walder Frey and says that he's been promised a princess to marry.

 

Roose's bedchamber is full of people when she returns and she sees that he's in the process of being leeched. The men are discussing the risk of becoming trapped and besieged at Harrenhal and say that if the Lannisters end up surrounding them then they'll run out of food within a moon's turn. Roose seems confident that Tywin will be kept in King's Landing for awhile but the Freys are worried about the Lannisters retaliating now that they have the support of Highgarden. Ser Harys Haigh says that if Tywin can defeat a seasoned man like Stannis then what chance is a boy like Robb going to have. Ser Hosteen thinks that Robb needs to be made to understand that they've lost and Roose reminds them that Robb has won every battle he's ever fought.

 

Hosteen goes on about how Robb has lost Winterfell and mentions that Bran and Rickon are dead. Arya feels as though she's forgotten how to breathe and thinks that it can't possibly be true. She feels the tears welling in her eyes and fights the urge to cry. Hosteen says that Robb is going to have to bend the knee and make peace with the Lannisters. Roose smiles and asks who's going to tell this to Robb. He tells the men that he'll think on what they said and dismisses them.

 

Arya begins to remove the leeches from Roose's body and Qyburn reads Roose a letter from his wife. Lady Walda writes to Roose constantly and tells him that she prays for him all day everyday and is counting down the days until he can share her bed again.

 

Roose wants a letter sent to Ser Helman Tallhart to put the captives of Castle Darry to the sword in the name of King Robb. Tallhart is then commanded to join forces with Robett Glover so that they can give Duskendale a taste of the war. Arya is glad that Castle Darry is being put to the torch and remembers her fight with Joffrey and how Lady was killed there.

 

Roose decides that he wants to go hunting for wolves and complains that their howling has been keeping him awake at night. He mentions how direwolves used to roam the north in packs of a hundred or more. He says that it's odd to see common wolves being so bold especially in the south.

 

Arya is left alone to clean up Roose's rooms and reflects on the blow she's just been dealt. She cries and thinks about how Robb will kill them all for what they've done and knows that he'll never bend the knee. She wonders if she's still Arya Stark now that Winterfell is gone.      

 

As she's cleaning she notices a map of the lands of the Trident and sees that Riverrun isn't that far from Harrenhal.

 

When she's done with her work she takes some time to practice the drills that Syrio taught her. She pretends she's fighting the people on her list and includes the words valar morghulis.

 

When Roose returns from the hunt they bring nine wolves back with them and Roose gives orders to use the fur to make him a blanket since winter is coming. Roose sends Arya get his dinner and when she goes to the kitchens, she sees that Hot Pie is sullen and he asks her not to help him get Roose's wine ready. She feels sad that Hot Pie's attitude towards her has changed.

 

Arya brings Roose his dinner and he gives her leave to go. Something in Arya gives her the courage to ask Roose if he'll take her with him when he leaves Harrenhal. Roose gives her a little shit for having the nerve to question him but eventually answers her question and tells her that when he leaves she'll remain at Harrenhal with Vargo Hoat. Arya tries to protest for a brief moment and Roose asks her if he'll need to have her tongue taken out. He allows her to leave and tells her that he'll forget about her moment of insolence.

 

The Freys have taken up residence in the Wailing Tower and Arya hears arguing as she passes it. She sees Elmar sitting on the steps by himself and she sees that he's been crying. He tells Arya that a raven arrived from the Twins saying that their family has been dishonored and he won't be allowed to marry his princess after all. He tells her that his father told him that he'll either have to marry someone else or become a septon.

 

Arya can't believe that Elmar is crying over some stupid princess, but decides to confide in him and tells him that her brothers might be dead. He tells her that nobody cares about a serving girl's brothers and she responds by telling him that she hopes his princess dies.

 

Arya goes to the godswood and prays to the gods to tell her what to do. She listens for a few moments and then hears a long cry of a wolf. She suddenly hears her father's voice telling her that the lone wolf dies but the pack survives. She whispers to the weirwood that there is no pack anymore and gives the reasons she's been separated from her siblings. She hears her father telling her that she's Arya of Winterfell and reminds her that she once told him that she could be strong. He reminds her of her wolf blood.

 

“The wolf blood.” Arya remembered now. “I’ll be as strong as Robb. I said I would.” She took a deep breath, then lifted the broomstick in both hands and brought it down across her knee. It broke with a loud crack, and she threw the pieces aside. I am a direwolf, and done with wooden teeth.

 

Arya goes to find Gendry and quietly wakes him so that they don't disturb the others. Gendry asks her what she wants and she tells him that she wants a sword. She asks him to run off with her and explains that Roose Bolton is going to give Harrenhal over to Vargo Hoat and the Bloody Mummers. She lies and tells him that Vargo is going to cut the left foot off of all of the servants to keep them from running. She tells him to go to the kitchens to tell Hot Pie to get them food. She'll deal with getting the horses and Gendry can be the one to bring the swords.

 

Arya makes sure to dress up in the Bolton livery, grabs the map of the lands of the Trident, and steals a dagger just in case Gendry ends up not bringing the swords. Arya tells one of the stableboys that Roose needs three horses to be saddled immediately and when the guy starts questioning her, she tells him that Roose isn't in the habit of being questioned by servants. Arya hopes that the stableboy isn't hurt when they realize what's happened but knows that he probably will be.

 

Arya waits for Gendry and Hot Pie and they eventually join her. Arya tells them to wait for her while she deals with the guard. Arya walks up to the guard and tells him that Lord Bolton sent her to give each of his men a silver coin. She holds out the coin that Jaqen gave her but drops it on the ground so that the man has to bend over to grab it. She slits his throat as he's reaching for the coin and whispers 'valar morghulis' as he dies. She grabs the coin and soon hears the howl of a wolf outside of the castle walls.

 

It's raining by the time Gendry and Hot Pie bring the horses around and Hot Pie is amazed that Arya killed the guard. Arya climbs onto her saddle and the three of them ride away from Harrenhal.

[vibeology]

Love this chapter too! The end of this book is so pack full of action. I just adore it.

 

I love Arya and Elmar talking to each other, not realizing they're talking about Arya. I'm a sucker for that sort of thing. On the Frey scale, Elmar isn't the worst but he still sucks. Telling a girl no one cares about her dead family? Awful. The way Arya finds out and how strong she is in that moment is so impressive. I'd be sobbing on the floor.

 

I remember reading this for the first time and not picking up on the fact that anything was wrong, but clearly even if the Red Wedding itself hasn't been planned yet (and it can't be since the Jeyne wedding has only just happened) Roose is already considering how best to make his move. He sends men away to die, reducing Robb's numbers and has no worries that he'll get trapped at Harrenhall. Even the wolf hunting symbolism went right over my head.

 

Arya's escape plan makes me so happy. I'm not pleased that the stable boy will be punished and I think for her own sake, if Arya could be less stabby that would probably be good, but here she's made the decision to act, gets a plan, finds her people and gets a job done. She's smart how she goes about each step; grabbing useful things like the dagger, wearing Bolton clothes so she can move around more freely and the trick with the coin are all signs that she's really learned so much and is so capable.

 

I also really like how Gendry points out to Arya that just because its your side at the top doesn't mean things are better for the people down below. His life was much better with Lannister control as was Hot Pie's, Pia's (not that either situation was great for her, but at least she wasn't chained up naked) and most other people. The fact that Arya knew they had to flee because Hoat was coming further shows that for the smallfolk who is at the top matters far less that who is the person right above you and how do they treat you?

[benteen]

God, Roose is a creep.  He's another one of those people you would just be uncomfortable to be around.  Though he'd be a better dinner guest than either his son, Joffrey or the Mountain.

 

I wish Arya could have learned that she was the Princess that Elmar was supposed to marry.

 

I wish they had filmed the scene where Arya kills the guard on the show.

Edited April 12, 2016 by benteen

[Lady S.]

What happens to Pia and the other women like her here is just so vile, and shows that even a more restrained, older Roose still has similarities with Ramsay. He's just not the one doing the raping and torturing himself anymore.

 

I remember reading this for the first time and not picking up on the fact that anything was wrong, but clearly even if the Red Wedding itself hasn't been planned yet (and it can't be since the Jeyne wedding has only just happened) Roose is already considering how best to make his move. He sends men away to die, reducing Robb's numbers and has no worries that he'll get trapped at Harrenhall. Even the wolf hunting symbolism went right over my head.

Roose being in treason mode even before learning that Jaime was freed or that Robb married Jeyne shows that the loss of Winterfell and Bran/Rickon was what really doomed Robb, which Roose basically confirms later when he thanks Theon for giving him the North. It's also telling imo that Roose apparently had already sent loyalists away to re-capture Castle Darry. He must have wasted no time in making sure it was mostly Freys surrounding him, the better to have total control over Harrenhal and have these Frey-only councils.

 

But Robb's cause wasn't necessarily lost yet, the Freys were just being defeatist because they thought Tywin's was the winning side. There had been several sudden turnarounds in this war already. Renly's sudden and inexplicable death should have left people who didn't know how Stannis managed kill him confused and a bit less certain that assembling the biggest army meant you were the side to back. The least they could do is wait a little longer, but instead they're panicking as if Tywin and the Tyrells are already marching on Harrenhal. And if that were to happen, they'd be much safer in Harrenhal than in the open field or any other castle. The huge-ass besieging army should be the ones having trouble feeding themselves if the defenders had time to scour the land and hoard their stores. That's what the Blackfish did when he held Riverrun, and as the Freys showed they didn't know what they were doing in that siege, I'm inclined to think they don't know what they're talking about here either. If Robb hadn't married Jeyne but met up with the Freys and made it clear he wasn't interested in bending the knee, I wonder if Walder would be the one breaking the marriage contract or if his sheer pride at the notion of a Frey Queen could win out over his desire to be on the strongest side. 

 

More importantly, Roose has the least reason to worry here because he's a northman, if he helped Robb re-take the North as planned, he could sit safely in the Dreadfort knowing the Lannisters could never successfully invade and subdue the North. So Robb's big mistake was releasing Theon which set the ball rolling for everything else, but temporarily losing the North shouldn't have doomed him if Roose had any loyalty to begin with. 

 

I'd also like to point out that though she lied to them, Arya was doing Hot Pie and Gendry a favor by getting them out of this haunted hellhole. IIRC, by the time Jaime gets there on his second Riverlands tour, Pia and the other former Whent servants are the only smallfolk left. I doubt the peasants captured were missing because they were all just released. The Mountain probably killed them all when he took the castle from Vargo Hoat, and Hoat probably did kill or mutilate a number of them too.

[WearyTraveler]

There was a reference in an earlier chapter in Harrenhal about ravens flying in and out all the time, and I can't help but think that Tywin already had some sot of deal with Roose before he finally decided to leave Harrenhal.  I know there was a line on the show given to Tywin who said that wars can be won by words, or something like that.

 

In this chapter we get Roose making himself a wolfskin blanket and that just makes me a bit more sure that Roose was in Tywin's pocket way before the Red Wedding was even planned. 

[nodorothyparker]

As usual I'm trying to get caught up and I'm laughing at the sound of all the eye rolling that's clearly going on as Dany's trying to convince any of the Westerosi ship captains to give her crew passage by introducing herself as queen of the Seven Kingdoms. If any of them had taken her seriously, what exactly was the plan for invading with 100 Dothraki and three baby dragons?

Strong Belwas is dressed like a cast member from Aladdin.

[nodorothyparker]

Finally finished up with Arya's chapter, also known as part 17 of gods damn, it really truly sucks to be smallfolk in this world.  Practically half the castle staff has been brutally punished or killed for doing jobs they didn't really have much choice in doing for the Lannisters and now it will be the other half's turn when Roose hands the keys over to Vargo Hoat.  Between this and how every military campaign we've been told about seems to involve setting the Riverlands on fire and killing everybody they see, I'm surprised there's anybody left there at all.  Maybe they're not happy with her and don't want to go, but Arya dragging Gendry and Hot Pie out of there is likely saving their lives.

 

Despite the grimness of the chapter, I can't help but laugh at Arya and Elmar Frey's bickering.  That right there is a walking advertisement against arranged marriage and one of those things she'd probably look back on one day and laugh about what a bullet she dodged if everything hadn't gone so horribly wrong from here.  I do love how Elmar's crying over his own broken betrothal is our first hint that Robb's about to lose the Freys wholesale over breaking his own betrothal even if we don't know the details yet.  

 

Arya hearing about the loss of Winterfell and her brothers and wondering who that makes her now really gets to me.  So much of identity in this series is wrapped up in family name and what your house is.  It's interesting to see how each of the characters who lose that react to it.

 

It escaped me too until rereading this chapter that Theon taking Winterfell and Robb not being able to do anything about it is where the Northern cause starts to become lost.  When I generally think about it, I usually remember it being when the Freys leave over his breaking the marriage contract followed shortly by having to execute Karstark.  Because as Roose himself points out here, Robb is still winning battles.  But yeah, with Renly dead and Stannis defeated so the Lannisters have full Tyrell backing and don't have to divide their attention anymore while Robb clearly will in dealing with the Ironborn invasion and disgruntlement in his own ranks, it's just no longer doable.  I wonder too about the ravens coming in and going out, whether Roose is already talking to Tywin since he clearly has already come to his own conclusions about this and is laying the groundwork.

Edited April 13, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Lady S.]

There was a reference in an earlier chapter in Harrenhal about ravens flying in and out all the time, and I can't help but think that Tywin already had some sot of deal with Roose before he finally decided to leave Harrenhal.  I know there was a line on the show given to Tywin who said that wars can be won by words, or something like that.

Also remember that the only prisoners Tywin ransomed were the Freys. I think he at least thought it was possible that Walder might break the marriage contract to bend the knee if Lannister generosity was made clear. Though I think breaking with Robb to bend the knee was as far as they'd go in that scenario without feeling like Robb had insulted them. I think it took a lot of bitter, petty resentment to get to the extremes of the Red Wedding. Before that, Walder was mostly known for trying to be on the winning side while avoiding conflict.

 

What do we make of Arya's cool scene in the godswood?

[Avaleigh]

I hate that Castle Darry is being put to the torch in the name of King Robb. It sucks to be one of the smallfolk and the northerners are making people's lives miserable just as the Lannisters are. 

 

That Amabel woman is a disgusting nightmare. I wonder what happens to her after Roose leaves.

Also remember that the only prisoners Tywin ransomed were the Freys. I think he at least thought it was possible that Walder might break the marriage contract to bend the knee if Lannister generosity was made clear. Though I think breaking with Robb to bend the knee was as far as they'd go in that scenario without feeling like Robb had insulted them. I think it took a lot of bitter, petty resentment to get to the extremes of the Red Wedding. Before that, Walder was mostly known for trying to be on the winning side while avoiding conflict.

 

What do we make of Arya's cool scene in the godswood?

This was my favorite part of the chapter. I didn't remember what a connection she had to the old gods and we've had two powerful scenes where we see her gain strength from a visit to the godswood. I love the moment when she decides that she's done with wooden teeth. 

[Avaleigh]

Sansa VIII

 

Tywin is riding through the throne room and everyone at court is dressed to impress. Tywin dismounts in front of the Iron Throne and his warhorse takes a shit right at the base of the throne so that Joffrey has to walk around it in order to receive his grandfather. Sansa covers her mouth to hide her amusement when this happens.

 

Joffrey puts the chain of the Hand of the King around Tywin's neck and Tywin accepts the responsibility for the governance of the realm until Joffrey comes of age. Tywin then joins Cersei at the council table and Joffrey begins bestowing honors on various people including allowing Loras to become a member of the Kingsguard.

 

Ser Garlan Tyrell steps forward and tells Joffrey that his sister Margaery never consummated her marriage with Renly. He tells Joffrey he thinks it would be a great idea if Joffrey and Margaery got married so that their Houses can be joined together. Joffrey tells Garlan that he's already promised to another, so Cersei says that the councillors have decided that it will be for the good of the realm for Sansa to be cast aside in favor of Margaery.

 

The people in the throne room start chanting about how they want Margaery but Joffrey says that he swore a holy vow, so the High Septon assures him that the gods are totally cool with him dumping Sansa and says that there is no betrothal as far as the Faith is concerned. Sansa is nervous that this is all too good to be true and worries that Joffrey somehow won't say the words that will set her free. Joffrey appears sullen as Tywin looks at him but he eventually announces that he'll be marrying Margaery Tyrell.

 

People are staring Sansa now and she has to remind herself to not look happy because Cersei doesn't want her humiliating Joffrey. Sansa asked Cersei what will happen to her now that she's no longer betrothed to the king and was told that she'll remain a ward of the court. Sansa tells Cersei that she wants to go home and Cersei says that Sansa should know by now that nobody gets what they want in life. Sansa thinks to herself that she's been given what she wanted but does her best to look sad and abandoned.

 

Other men of the Blackwater come forward to receive rewards and when the heralds are finished telling the court about all of the heroic deeds from the battle, Ser Kevan gets to his feet and starts announcing title upgrades and other gifts for various men. Lancel Lannister is made a lord and is given Castle Darry and all of its lands. Lancel isn't there to accept his reward and people are whispering that his wounds might be fatal. Tyrion is said to be dying as well.

 

Littlefinger is the next to be rewarded and he's given the castle of Harrenhal as well as the title Lord Paramount of the Trident. Sansa thinks Littlefinger looks especially pleased and notes that she didn't hear about him doing anything especially heroic. When Littlefinger thanks Joffrey he jokes about how he'll see about getting himself some sons and grandsons.

 

Joffrey laughed, and the court with him. Lord Paramount of the Trident, Sansa thought, and Lord of Harrenhal as well. She did not understand why that should make him so happy; the honors were as empty as the title granted to Hallyne the Pyromancer. Harrenhal was cursed, everyone knew that, and the Lannisters did not even hold it at present. Besides, the lords of the Trident were sworn to Riverrun and House Tully, and to the King in the North; they would never accept Littlefinger as their liege. Unless they are made to. Unless my brother and my uncle and my grandfather are all cast down and killed. The thought made Sansa anxious, but she told herself she was being silly. Robb has beaten them every time. He’ll beat Lord Baelish too, if he must.

 

More than six hundred new knights are made and by the time the last knighthood is granted Joffrey is looking visibly restless, so this is when they decide to bring in the captives. The captives who changed their allegiance during the battle are only required to swear their fealty to Joffrey. Those who fought on until the bitter end are required to speak and their words will decide their fate.

 

The people who beg forgiveness are allowed back into the fold and are even allowed to keep their lands, but there are a handful of men who chose to remain defiant. One man says that the Lord of Light is protecting Stannis and another man starts shouting about how Joffrey is an abomination born of incest. Joffrey orders both men to be killed and gets so upset that he ends up cutting himself on the Iron Throne. Joffrey cries for his mother as his arm starts to bleed and the man who's shouting about how Joffrey is an abomination points to this as proof that Joffrey isn't the rightful king. He shrieks about this until Meryn Trant puts a sword through the guy's chest. Cersei leads Joffrey away to have his arm taken care of and Tywin takes over for Joffrey in listening to the rest of the captives.

 

Sansa feels happy when she goes to meet with Dontos in the godswood later that night, but Dontos tells her that she's still at risk since Joffrey could still find a way to have her in his bed if he really wants to. Dontos tells Sansa to continue being brave and tells her that they're set to leave on the day of Joffrey's wedding. He says that people will be so drunk and distracted that people will forget about her and then they'll have their chance.

 

Dontos gives Sansa a hairnet and tells her that the stones in it are black amethysts from Asshai. He says that the hairnet is magic and says it represents justice, vengeance, and home.

[benteen]

Heheh on that little shit Joffrey calling out for mommy after cutting his arm on the Iron Throne.

 

Littlefinger's being raised to Lord Paramount of the Trident was something bizarrely not included on the show.  Especially strange considering it was this raise in his station that helped him being "big enough" to marry Lysa.

[Jazzy24]

Tywin continues to be the character most associated with shit. Literally.

[Avaleigh]

I love what a good day Sansa is having. She starts out with that moment where she's suppressing a giggle over Tywin's horse. She's released from her betrothal, she gets to see the throne cut Joffrey, she even gets a date for when she'll finally be able to leave King's Landing, and she gets a pretty awesome hairnet. I'd say this book ends on a fairly positive note for her and Arya both all things considered. 

 

I thought the description of Jalabhar Xho looking as though he's about to take flight was kind of amusing. I'm just sort of imagining what his closet must look like. 

 

Joffrey being cut by the throne made me wonder if there's any truth to that rumor that the Iron Throne killed at least one Targaryen in the past. It seems like the throne would have gotten rid of Aerys II if this were really a thing. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Avaleigh

[nodorothyparker]

The packed throne room is quite a contrast to how sparse attendance at court has been since Joffrey took over.  Everybody loves a winner indeed.

 

The bit of theater from all parties when Garlan Tyrell "suggests" Margaery as an alternative bride to Sansa is amusing. Oh, she's a widowed virgin who's come to love me from afar?  Well, you know I would since an alliance with your house kept all of our heads off of spikes, but I've got this prior commitment.  But hey, there's conveniently a septon right here who can assure everyone in earshot of the honor and legality of breaking that deal for a new one with you.  Yay for all of us.  Even Sansa's in on the act, pretending she's not about to do a jig of glee.

 

I kind of love that Harrenhal is the thing that everybody is awarded but nobody ever seems to collect on.     

 

I had forgotten the bit with the Stannis supporter screaming at Joffrey being a bastard of incest rejected by the throne in front of the entire court.  It is funny that Joffrey cuts himself on the throne and immediately calls for mommy, but the day is now not quite the grand triumph Tywin probably wanted to legitimize the Lannisters as the ruling family.

[Lady S.]

Littlefinger's being raised to Lord Paramount of the Trident was something bizarrely not included on the show.  Especially strange considering it was this raise in his station that helped him being "big enough" to marry Lysa.

Being raised to Lord of Harrenhal was enough for that, the Lord Paramountcy was just icing on the cake. Not like a daughter and widow of LPs could only marry another LP. Lysa's mother was a Whent of Harrenhal, after all.

Joffrey being cut by the throne made me wonder if there's any truth to that rumor that the Iron Throne killed at least one Targaryen in the past. It seems like the throne would have gotten rid of Aerys II if this were really a thing.

I think Maegor was more likely the first king slain by one of his own Kingsguard. Or else one of his wives did him in, or he killed himself.

I wonder why Tywin only sat on the steps to the throne, and not the throne itself, when he took over for Joffrey. False humility feels weird in the midst of this Lannister celebration. Did Joffrey's blood need to be cleaned off the throne first or something?