Barry Allen

[wayne67]

Since Iris' life was threatened, I think Barry should tell her. Also, Barry flirting with Iris as the Flash pushes this from just being his secret to squicky territory for me.

 

I hold it more against Joe than Barry about Barry keeping The Flash secret secret. I still don't understand Joe's motivation in keeping that knowledge from Iris as it doesn't make her any safer as she still got kidnapped by Metal man.

 

I think the whole Barry Iris thing is squicky but why is Barry flirting with Iris as The Flash squicky? I mean she's still emotionally cheating on Eddie regardless of whether Barry is doing it in a costume or not. Is it the fraudulence aspect ?

[phoenics]

I hold it more against Joe than Barry about Barry keeping The Flash secret secret. I still don't understand Joe's motivation in keeping that knowledge from Iris as it doesn't make her any safer as she still got kidnapped by Metal man.

 

I think the whole Barry Iris thing is squicky but why is Barry flirting with Iris as The Flash squicky? I mean she's still emotionally cheating on Eddie regardless of whether Barry is doing it in a costume or not. Is it the fraudulence aspect ?

For me it's the fact that she doesn't know it's Barry - and he's keeping that from her. It's kinda insult on top of injury. The injury being that he's her BFF and hasn't told her the biggest secret in his life (that's what BFFs do) and then the insult being that he's flirting with her too (and wishing... and hoping... and praying... that she breaks up with Eddie - though that part I get).

It's not like I don't enjoy the scenes with Iris/The Flash, but yeah - Barry's shady for that - as Cait pointed out.

All the versions of the Flash I've seen have been goofballs, or jokey. Isn't that one of his major characteristics? I don't have a problem with that. I'm glad Barry and this show isn't so serious.

 

And is being a nice guy a bad thing now? Or is this code for something else? Please explain.

Barry Allen's flash has always been the more serious out of all of them - probably due to his mother.

It's the Wally West, Bart Allen flashes that have been more jokester-ish. The Flash on the Justice League Animated Series show was a constant jokester and he was Wally West. I loved him though.

[phoenics]

It does seem to get misapplied a lot IMO. I don't think Barry has been like that, I think he and iris have genuinely been friends, but there was one line I didn't like where I could see that applying. I don't think the Caitlin thing was anything but a hack line, and nothing with Caitlin showed Barry himself in a bad light.

I think it's a combination of Caitlin's "peek" comment, and then Barry's anger after Iris wouldn't change her plans to hang with him after he promised to be a NiceGuy and help her out over her reporting thing.

That's when the NiceGuy part crystallized for me. And the way he's been acting since has only made me align with the NiceGuy thinking more.

 

I don't think iris is Lana, but I could see that being the most likely bad way they would take her character. Lana was sweet and nice and bland and pretty and iris is all of those things. They just need to give her more spark onscreen if they put her with Barry because like lokiberry I am enjoying Linda with the flash. Partly because they are just having fun, low drama entertaining fun. I can't see iris and Barry being low drama fun anytime soon if ever.

The last word I would use to describe Iris is bland.

And I find calling Linda a "spark" problematic given that she's done nothing but chase after Barry and basically stalk him since she came onboard. That's not endearing her to me. I do like that she seems confident (though calling some dude's job after a couple of dates does NOT seem confident) and we've gotten nothing to show her inner life at all.

Right now, Westallen is the angst-ridden couple. There have been plenty of times where Iris has been completely happy go lucky and happy. And she definitely has a spark with Barry and The Flash.

But, YMMV.

I do hope the writers give us more of Iris' PoV soon. They're being unfair to the character.

Edited February 16, 2015 by phoenics

[Sakura12]

I think we can all agree that the Barry/Iris relationship is being terribly handled and written. 

 

These writers really have no idea how to write for female characters, they only write them so the male looks cool. Hence Barry's "Nice Guy" syndrome. 

[Carrie Ann]

I don't think Barry is a Nice Guy, personally. I love Barry. But this trope--the guy in love with his friend who is oblivious--tends to drag its characters into that dynamic. The writers need to be very careful to make it clear that Barry doesn't resent Iris for her relationship with Eddie, or for not returning his feelings (yet). Some of his reactions to Eddie and Iris, pre-admission, were a little too close to eye-rolling irritation for my taste, but in general, I think the show has stayed on the right side of the line with him so far.

[cynic]

...

I think the whole Barry Iris thing is squicky but why is Barry flirting with Iris as The Flash squicky? I mean she's still emotionally cheating on Eddie regardless of whether Barry is doing it in a costume or not. Is it the fraudulence aspect ?

I think "emotionally cheating" is a bit far, unless you consider anyone who has ever fangirled over or was charmed by meeting a celebrity (or even just someone really attractive) to have emotionally cheated.

Squicky was not really the best choice of words for me. I think Barry flirting with Iris as the Flash is kinda a dick move. One, because he knows she's in a relationship and he deliberately uses his hero celebrity persona in an unfair way to flirt with her. (For the record, I think she's charmed and flattered by it, but she doesn't really flirt back.) Second, if he was a stranger in a mask, it wouldn't bother me, but he's her best friend basically pretending to be someone else, listening to her talk about him, and then flirting with her knowing the stuff he knows. And then he smirks about the effect he has on her.

Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy it, but I do think it's a bit jerky. I appreciate that he's not perfect though.

[phoenics]

I think "emotionally cheating" is a bit far, unless you consider anyone who has ever fangirled over or was charmed by meeting a celebrity (or even just someone really attractive) to have emotionally cheated.

Squicky was not really the best choice of words for me. I think Barry flirting with Iris as the Flash is kinda a dick move. One, because he knows she's in a relationship and he deliberately uses his hero celebrity persona in an unfair way to flirt with her. (For the record, I think she's charmed and flattered by it, but she doesn't really flirt back.) Second, if he was a stranger in a mask, it wouldn't bother me, but he's her best friend basically pretending to be someone else, listening to her talk about him, and then flirting with her knowing the stuff he knows. And then he smirks about the effect he has on her.

Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy it, but I do think it's a bit jerky. I appreciate that he's not perfect though.

I cannot WAIT for Iris to find out about this... I just want to hear her reaction. I hope the writers give it to us - it would be such a disservice not to.

Also - I wonder if Eddie eventually finds out that Barry is The Flash. I wonder if him realizing that The Flash had been flirting with his girlfriend this whole time is part of the reason why Iris left him - especially if it's for Barry (who is The Flash).

I guess the feud has to start somehow.

[Xander]

Both Barry and Iris are guilty of doing their ish and we can't take one to task while giving the other a pass. And this goes both ways. Iris shouldn't have been having her little flirtation with the Flash when she has a boyfriend just like Barry shouldn't have been flirting with her under a different identity. They both did wrong but it's no big deal. I found it fun and it's just a tv show. 

[phoenics]

Both Barry and Iris are guilty of doing their ish and we can't take one to task while giving the other a pass. And this goes both ways. Iris shouldn't have been having her little flirtation with the Flash when she has a boyfriend just like Barry shouldn't have been flirting with her under a different identity. They both did wrong but it's no big deal. I found it fun and it's just a tv show.

Fangirling is not the same as flirting. Iris looked at The Flash the same way she looked at Oliver - with hero worship. That's completely and utterly different than how Barry was behaving. Not to mention the smug looks he would get whenever he overheard something that made it seem like he had an effect on Iris - or that she was flustered by the Flash.

And even IF we say Iris was flirting - sorry, but that doesn't even things out since Barry is still flirting with her in disguise. That's just not cute - even if I enjoyed watching their chemistry.

[cynic]

Both Barry and Iris are guilty of doing their ish and we can't take one to task while giving the other a pass. And this goes both ways. Iris shouldn't have been having her little flirtation with the Flash when she has a boyfriend just like Barry shouldn't have been flirting with her under a different identity. They both did wrong but it's no big deal. I found it fun and it's just a tv show.

The reason I look at it as more flirtation on his part is because his motivation in talking to her as the Flash is obviously wrapped up in his feelings for her and he says stuff like "You're worth being on time for" trying to get her to think of him like that. She hasn't been meeting him for the same reason and she doesn't say stuff like that. I can see she was charmed before the Eddie thing though and it would have been bad to continue, so it's good that she stopped it.

I found it fun too though.

Edited February 16, 2015 by cynic

[Xander]

Again, is this a competition of who is worse? They both did wrong. Can the wrong Iris did be acknowledged without pulling in Barry to show that he's worse? 

 

From what I saw, Iris was fangirling and flirting. That's why many people thought that all Barry needed to do to make her fall into his arms was reveal that he's The Flash. I don't really consider it the same as how she interacted with Oliver. 

 

 

The reason I look at it as more flirtation on his part is because his motivation in talking to her as the Flash is obviously wrapped up in his feelings for her and he says stuff like "You're worth being on time for" trying to get her to think of him like that

 

She was also the one who said "I bet you say that to all the girls" and she grinned like a Cheshire cat when he replied, "What other girls?" She was enjoying the flirtation but as you said, we haven't seen it since Ep 8 anyway. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by Xander

[Shanna]

Iris looked at Oliver like he was a hot piece of man, not hero worship. She was also flirting with the flash, IMO. It was wrong of Barry to do that for sure.

I am glad they quit all that because I was dearly afraid that was going to be another superman/Lois lane parallel which I don't enjoy.

Iris initially claimed to be doing all this looking into the flash for Barry's sake, but with the journalism thing it doesn't seem like they are still saying that.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Shanna

[phoenics]

Iris initially claimed to be doing all this looking into the flash for Barry's sake, but with the journalism thing it doesn't seem like they are still saying that.

I think they still are. Iris said that she started into it for Barry, but then later when Barry tried to make her stop the blog, she said (to the flash) that she was doing it for all of the other people who needed to believe in the impossible too. I think that was the leap - from doing it for Barry to doing it for the whole world --> reporting. That's how I saw it.

[wayne67]

 

...

    I think the whole Barry Iris thing is squicky but why is Barry flirting with Iris as The Flash squicky? I mean she's still emotionally cheating on Eddie regardless of whether Barry is doing it in a costume or not. Is it the fraudulence aspect ?

 

I think "emotionally cheating" is a bit far, unless you consider anyone who has ever fangirled over or was charmed by meeting a celebrity (or even just someone really attractive) to have emotionally cheated.

 

 

 

I'd give Iris a free pass on the Oliver thing because she just randomly saw him at the coffee shop.

 

With The Flash she has spent weeks thinking about him and reporting on his activities meets up with him in secret and engages in flirting all without telling her actual boyfriend. It's one step away from actual cheating. There's already the lying and meeting in secret and the quasi relationship tones of "I don't think I should see you any more" that The Flash said to end it.

 

Oliver was fangirling over a hot celebrity, The Flash was something much more (IMO).

 

These threads are getting so confusing to keep track of. I feel like I'm having the same argument over three different threads. Should we have a Barry/Iris/Eddie love triangle thread, though adding Eddie's name feels kind of superfluous at the moment.

Edited February 16, 2015 by wayne67

[phoenics]

I was just thinking the same thing, wayne67. I keep losing track of what I'm saying in each one. Maybe we should all be a little more careful about where we post about what... it's just hard... the conversations keep spinning out and then focusing on one character and then spinning out again.

I can't keep up, lol.

[Oscirus]

Well to be fair the last villain he exposed himself was his school bully he was gloating over as he sentenced him to life imprisonment. It did turn out to be a short life though as that prison sucks.

 

You got bigger and stronger but I got faster and I beat you all by myself. I totally didn't need help from Iris. Nope all by myself.

 

I get my episodes mixed up but when did he strip that mugger?

[phoenics]

I think that was in Power Outage?

[Xander]

 

I get my episodes mixed up but when did he strip that mugger?

Ep 7: "Power Outage"

[cynic]

Again, is this a competition of who is worse? They both did wrong. Can the wrong Iris did be acknowledged without pulling in Barry to show that he's worse?

From what I saw, Iris was fangirling and flirting. That's why many people thought that all Barry needed to do to make her fall into his arms was reveal that he's The Flash. I don't really consider it the same as how she interacted with Oliver.

She was also the one who said "I bet you say that to all the girls" and she grinned like a Cheshire cat when he replied, "What other girls?" She was enjoying the flirtation but as you said, we haven't seen it since Ep 8 anyway.

This is Barry's thread, so I think "pulling in Barry" should be expected.

I thought the "I bet you say that to all the girls" was a joke. I frequently say stuff like that all the time. Barry's reply made me go "Oh!" and fan myself a little. I can't blame the girl for liking it. I thought it was hot too.

As for acknowledging things, we just don't agree. It's okay to not agree. We don't have to arrive at a consensus.

[Xander]

This is Barry's thread, so I think "pulling in Barry" should be expected.

I thought the "I bet you say that to all the girls" was a joke. I frequently say stuff like that all the time. Barry's reply made me go "Oh!" and fan myself a little. I can't blame the girl for liking it. I thought it was hot too.

As for acknowledging things, we just don't agree. It's okay to not agree. We don't have to arrive at a consensus.

 

Yes, it's Barry's thread but that doesn't mean we have to downplay everything Iris does by mentioning Barry. Or perhaps we should just stick to only talking about these characters in their respective threads. 

 

I think there's a difference between disagreeing and just coming up with different ways to twist everything to always arrive at the same conclusion. But I agree that we don't have to arrive at a consensus. 

[Xander]

dbl post. 

Edited February 17, 2015 by Xander

[cynic]

Yes, it's Barry's thread but that doesn't mean we have to downplay everything Iris does by mentioning Barry. Or perhaps we should just stick to only talking about these characters in their respective threads.

I think there's a difference between disagreeing and just coming up with different ways to twist everything to always arrive at the same conclusion. But I agree that we don't have to arrive at a consensus.

Yes, it would probably be for the best if we tried to do a better job of keeping the threads separate. There will naturally be a little overlap, but we should do the best we can.

As for me "twisting everything", if that's what you think of my opinion, there's not a whole lot I can say to that. I do think people can disagree without being insulting though. Maybe something else we could all work on is talking about the show instead of each other.

[Xander]

As for me "twisting everything", if that's what you think of my opinion, there's not a whole lot I can say to that. 

 

I wasn't referring to you specifically but something I've noticed in the last few days. However, I definitely don't want to insult anyone so I apologize if you feel that way. 

[cynic]

Thanks, Xander. I appreciate that. I'm sorry for assuming you were directing that at me.

[driedfruit]

Yes, it's Barry's thread but that doesn't mean we have to downplay everything Iris does by mentioning Barry. Or perhaps we should just stick to only talking about these characters in their respective threads. 

 

Iris' treatment of Eddie isn't relevant to the conversation about Barry/Iris. Yes, Iris isn't perfect. But regarding her relationship with Barry, she hasn't done anything remarkably bad other than blabbing to Linda. 

Edited February 17, 2015 by driedfruit

[wayne67]

Based on the latest episode, does anyone think Barry will ever learn to think before rushing into a battle with an enemy ?

[bluebonnet]

No.  One of the problems with him being a thinking superhero is that there would never be any drama because he'd always win.  He almost has to be dumb for there to be any tension.  

[wayne67]

No.  One of the problems with him being a thinking superhero is that there would never be any drama because he'd always win.  He almost has to be dumb for there to be any tension.  

 

Lol he's going to win anyway as he's the main character but is it so hard to make him win in a less contrived way ?

 

I knew Buffy was going to win every fight too but they often did scenes where the characters did research together and bonded a little with wry humor.

Edited February 18, 2015 by wayne67

[bluebonnet]

But knowing they are going to win and not having any obstacles to winning are different things.  I agree they need to be less contrived with some things.  Barry can be smart and still have obtacles.  The general's weapons are a good example.  I just don't think this show on this network will explore better ways for Barry to experience drama and tension.  

[wayne67]

I don't mind if Barry wins, I just want Barry to stop bumbling into situations and super speeding out of them when they fail. There's very little actual tension because I know that no matter how stupid he is, he'll either be left for dead and recover (Tony) or someone else will do the heavy lifting of thinking for him (Pied Piper).

 

Firefly had some great moments where the 'heroes' would make a plan and it'll all go sideways due to unforeseen circumstances and they'd have to try and talk/shoot/outwit their way out of the situations they got themselves into. I feel like Barry doesn't have to think to succeed and that grates on me considering his earlier characterisation as a little goofy but really smart.

 

I guess I'm tired of the dumb hero motif.

Edited February 18, 2015 by wayne67

[Chicago Redshirt]

Lol he's going to win anyway as he's the main character but is it so hard to make him win in a less contrived way ?

 

I knew Buffy was going to win every fight too but they often did scenes where the characters did research together and bonded a little with wry humor.

The difference between Buffy and Barry is vast.

 

Buffy is fast, strong and all that. But at the end of the day, she's only human and one person.

 

Barry is superhumanly fast with superhuman reflexes. Eventually so ridiculously fast that he can move at light speed or near-light speed and that he can go back in time. If the writers took his powers to their logical conclusion, there really would not be someone he could not beat if he spent a half-second thinking about how to defeat them. Captain Cold, Heat Wave and all those people with various weapons? He should be able to strip them of their weapons in a blink of an eye. Or punch them five hundred times in a second. Or grab protective gear and then beat them up. 

 

In basically a worst-case scenario, he should almost always be able to effect a retreat and plan a second attack. 

[wayne67]

The difference between Buffy and Barry is vast.

 

Buffy is fast, strong and all that. But at the end of the day, she's only human and one person.

 

Barry is superhumanly fast with superhuman reflexes. Eventually so ridiculously fast that he can move at light speed or near-light speed and that he can go back in time. If the writers took his powers to their logical conclusion, there really would not be someone he could not beat if he spent a half-second thinking about how to defeat them. Captain Cold, Heat Wave and all those people with various weapons? He should be able to strip them of their weapons in a blink of an eye. Or punch them five hundred times in a second. Or grab protective gear and then beat them up. 

 

In basically a worst-case scenario, he should almost always be able to effect a retreat and plan a second attack. 

 

I'm aware that Barry is overpowered compared to Buffy. My point was he could plan something, even if the plan involves a 3 second glance at the Army base layout before he goes off to rescue someone. He could still get hit with an energy weapon or unmanned by a trip wire but his lack of any planning at all before an enemy encounter takes me out of the show as I just think he doesn't take it all that seriously so why should I. YMMV

 

I'd just like Barry to face some actual consequences for his actions, or deal with problems that super speed can't solve like a police inquiry into his actions at the CSI lab or getting investigated by his friend because he keeps lying to her, or dealing with his anonymity being broached for the 3rd time? by a super villain of the week. Or take some more care with his secret identity, on the Iris thread quarks made the point that 13 people know of Barry's secret identity and we're only up to episode 14. I'd just like some indication, no matter how small that there is some impact on this city with all the metahuman mayhem other than Iris's blog becoming popular enough to get her a job at the local newspaper. 

 

There's a wealth of tension to be mined for Barry as a character but I'm not feeling any of it as he doesn't seem all that burdened by the weight of responsibility of being a hero. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by wayne67

[Xander]

Barry is supposed to be smart but the current setup has him as the muscle while STAR Labs is the brain. But Barry is brainy so they need to show that. He'd dumbed down too much. 

[Oscirus]

Barry is superhumanly fast with superhuman reflexes. Eventually so ridiculously fast that he can move at light speed or near-light speed and that he can go back in time. If the writers took his powers to their logical conclusion, there really would not be someone he could not beat if he spent a half-second thinking about how to defeat them

 

I think that both the Captain Cold episode and the Pied Piper episode showed  easy ways to beat/ outsmart Flash without his acting like an idiot. As a matter of fact, I still don't get why Cold changed up his obviously successful tactics against the Flash the second time around.

[Trini]

 

There's a wealth of tension to be mined for Barry as a character but I'm not feeling any of it as he doesn't seem all that burdened by the weight of responsibility of being a hero.

 

Eh. I'll take adorkable, still-learning, upbeat Barry and leave the weighty burdens to the sister show.

[wayne67]

Eh. I'll take adorkable, still-learning, upbeat Barry and leave the weighty burdens to the sister show.

 

But learning implies character growth. All that seems to be happening is that he's speed training to run faster. He seldom seems to be mildly inconvenienced by the burden of being a super hero and responsible for the safety of the humans in the city.

[peachmangosteen]

He seldom seems to be mildly inconvenienced by the burden of being a super hero and responsible for the safety of the humans in the city.

 

I think he was pre mid-season finale. I think the writing has shifted in a number of ways in the second half.

Edited February 19, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[driedfruit]

I wish Barry was allowed to have interesting interactions with the metahumans he hunts outside of the cool special effects. He used to in the earlier episodes, but these days he's become a Star Labs machine more so than a superhero. We barely got to see him reacting to Peek a Boo's dilemma or Piper's. Does he even know what he is doing anymore and why? 

 

I like Barry as upbeat too, but these days I don't feel emotionally connected to him as a superhero. Maybe because he doesn't even seem to drive his own heroic vehicle, or rather just gets the directions and completes--rinse, repeat.  

[phoenics]

I think he was pre mid-season finale. I think the writing has shifted in a number of ways in the second half.

Yes I noticed this too and wondered if I was just being overly sensitive... but has there been some kind of change in the writing staff? Because some of the changes feel contrived and OOC - not just for Barry, but most of the characters... I feel like Harrison is the only character who has been written consistently... oh and maybe Joe. Everyone else? A crap shoot.

Another thought about Barry: remember when Barry was under the red-eye influence? And Arrow shot him with the horse tranquilizer? And he just shook it out of him? Those are the kinds of smarts that I expect Barry to have in general - he's a brilliant scientist - even his shock and awe at not being able to drink made no sense to me - he's like halfway and genius - you'd think he'd be able to figure out half of this stuff on his own?

Or maybe I'm asking too much.

I just feel like the whole Star Labs thing has taken away 2 things that worked really well in the comics: Barry being really really intelligent in his own right (especially as The Flash), and also his partnership with Iris from a case perspective (Iris and Barry worked together on a lot of cases, her as a reporter and him as a CSI). I don't hate Star Labs - I just think that it's trying to copy the Arrow formula, and in a way it's forced. I get that it's all tied into the origin plot on the show, and it works for the whole Harrison plot, and I like C&C at times, the dumbing down of Barry grates.

[wayne67]

I just had a random thought with the episode with Captain Cold and Heat guy it would have made much more sense for Cisco to upgrade Barry's suit with the shields he gave to the police which would give Cisco greater significance in the Flash gang. The extra weight of the suit would give Barry a legitimate reason to not smack the guns out of their hands during the confrontation because he'd be heavier than normal and would build up the sense that Barry is working towards greater speed with weight training.

 

The writing feels clunky and disjointed for Barry, he's supposed to be smart but he acts stupid which would make sense if they were going with him being reckless and arrogant but it seems like we're supposed to swallow that he's SUPER IMMATURE 26 year old with a good heart.

 

Is Barry ever going to try and figure out who Reverse Flash is so he can free his father or is he just going to erase his entire timeline with no forethought? Martin Stein made a point of saying that Barry would have to achieve a speed to punch through the space time continuum but Barry doesn't seem to care about the time space continuum or erasing himself or erasing the good he's done since then as Flash.

Edited February 20, 2015 by wayne67

[Oscirus]

Yes I noticed this too and wondered if I was just being overly sensitive... but has there been some kind of change in the writing staff?

 

No it's just a matter of the writers starting to listen to the recappers/ reviews hence the emphasis on more father/son stuff and special effects while completely ignoring the character development.

 

Another thought about Barry: remember when Barry was under the red-eye influence? And Arrow shot him with the horse tranquilizer? And he just shook it out of him? Those are the kinds of smarts that I expect Barry to have in general - he's a brilliant scientist

 

That was such a weird episode. He beat down Arrow worse then any other person on the show. I get that he was under the influence but still you'd think they'd improve his fighting a bit after that episode.

 

but Barry doesn't seem to care about the time space continuum or erasing himself or erasing the good he's done since then as Flash.

 

At the moment. saving his mom's life trumps everything else which is understandable. However, eventually, he'll probably be forced to let the events play out as is.

[Actionmage]

Buffy is fast, strong and all that. But at the end of the day, she's only human and one person.

 

Not exactly. Buffy was the titular hero, like Barry, but the show revived the term 'Scooby Gang' for a reason. Much like on this show, the main hero has a back-up/support team. They are more tech than mystical, but Barry isn't alone when he has instant response with Wells, Caitlin and Cisco. Plus, they can look at real-time physical monitoring of Barry, so they even can tell when he's dangerously in trouble ( like his second 'fight' with Hartley/Piper.)   Buffy isn't built for super-speed, but she is built to be resilient, agile, and strong. Both main heroes are supposed to be smart; Buffy, in spite of the Valley Girl stereotype.

 

But this is where my gripe with the writing for Barry comes in: Barry, who can talk about various fields of sciences and showed fanboy tendencies toward the particle accelerator, doesn't think that the Evil Army Guy won't have stuff to stop him from interfering in his shenanigans? Because Barry, given the episode title "The Scientist", could not dope out that the Army has it's own R&D on weapons and that Eiling has funding and a grudge against Barry for keeping Plastique away from his custody?

 

There is Because Plot Contrivance and then there's insulting the character.  I don't believe that there is a dichotomy of Light, Fun Super-hero vs. Dark, Brooding Super-hero. I think there is a spectrum. You can be light, fun and smart, at least to the level your character is supposed to be. Yes, he's not killing chess, but that isn't the end-all on a character's level of smarts. It's a lazy, hack shortcut.

 

Another thought about Barry: remember when Barry was under the red-eye influence? And Arrow shot him with the horse tranquilizer? And he just shook it out of him? Those are the kinds of smarts that I expect Barry to have in general - he's a brilliant scientist -

 

That was the spookiest, scariest sequence on this show, to me. Seeing an amoral Barry vibrating to work through the tranq? ::shivers:: Oliver looked like he resigned himself to the worst ,and last, beating of his life.  But in the last episode, we have Wells tell Barry how to counter white phosphorus! Whatever, writers.

 

I like Grant and Barry, but my gripes are firmly on you, Writers.

[phoenics]

No it's just a matter of the writers starting to listen to the recappers/ reviews hence the emphasis on more father/son stuff and special effects while completely ignoring the character development.

 

That was such a weird episode. He beat down Arrow worse then any other person on the show. I get that he was under the influence but still you'd think they'd improve his fighting a bit after that episode.

 

but Barry doesn't seem to care about the time space continuum or erasing himself or erasing the good he's done since then as Flash.

 

At the moment. saving his mom's life trumps everything else which is understandable. However, eventually, he'll probably be forced to let the events play out as is.

About Barry not caring about the space/time continuum - that's kinda part of the flash mythos - if I had to guess, this is a lesson he's going to have to learn - that you can't just go around changing things you don't like. Some things you have to live with. Like the garbage New 52.

Have they finally killed the New 52 yet?

[phoenics]

There is Because Plot Contrivance and then there's insulting the character.  I don't believe that there is a dichotomy of Light, Fun Super-hero vs. Dark, Brooding Super-hero. I think there is a spectrum. You can be light, fun and smart, at least to the level your character is supposed to be. Yes, he's not killing chess, but that isn't the end-all on a character's level of smarts. It's a lazy, hack shortcut.

From what I know - this is exactly who Barry Allen is supposed to be - brilliant and smart - but also with a sense of humor. Not dim-witted and silly. He is also supposed to be a planner as well.

I think the problem is that they are trying to play him a little bit like the Superman to Arrow's Batman. That has rather type cast Barry in a way that is inconsistent with his usual comic persona.

It makes me a little sad. Hopefully they will allow him to GROW into being the Barry Allen he can be. I guess Lois Lane on Smallville didn't start out being the Lois Lane we all knew and love - she grew into it (Chloe was actually more like Lois Lane from jump - for a while I thought they might kill Chloe to force Lois to come into her own). Maybe they'll have Barry grow into it.

I think that this time travel episode is going to force some growth... I think some catastrophic stuff will happen as a result of Barry trying to go back to save him mom - it always leads to disaster in the comics - that's how we got this crappy new 52.

[wayne67]

I'm kind of lost as to why Barry isn't using the magic mirror projector to free his father as it is evidence that his father didn't kill his mother...

 

I mean the police know there is The Flash around since there's a photo circulating throughout the press now.

 

I guess Barry would rather fiddle with time than free his father by introducing some doubt in his conviction...

 

One of my biggest issues with Barry is his actions make no sense when compared to his supposed motivations. He apparently wants to free his father but expends very little energy on screen to tracking down who Reverse Flash is. He supposedly loves Iris but he makes no real effort to pursue her as a romantic interest after blurting out his love confession. He is supposed to be a scientist but he appears to have no interest in studying his own altered physiology or fiddling about with the metahumans in the basement.

 

I don't get Barry. He doesn't really make much sense.

[Oscirus]

I'm kind of lost as to why Barry isn't using the magic mirror projector to free his father as it is evidence that his father didn't kill his mother...

 

How would that be presented in court? I'm pretty sure that evidence wouldn't pass the Frye test. The only way he can use such info is the way he's currently using it.

I do wonder what his endgame is with regards to getting his father out of prison. Even if  the man in the yellow suit confesses on tape to being the murderer it's not like Barry can put him in prison or use said confession to get his father out since that would lead to quite a few questions that I'm sure that Barry doesn't want to answer.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Oscirus

[wayne67]

How would that be presented in court? I'm pretty sure that evidence wouldn't pass the Frye test. The only way he can use such info is the way he's currently using it.

I do wonder what his endgame is with regards to getting his father out of prison. Even if  the man in the yellow suit confesses on tape to being the murderer it's not like Barry can put him in prison or use said confession to get his father out since that would lead to quite a few questions that I'm sure that Barry doesn't want to answer.

 

I suppose he couldn't present it in court but considering he works for the police and Joe who was the lead investigator believes that Barry's Dad is innocent, they could reopen the case to investigate it further using the magic mirror as leverage.

 

I'm also confused by Barry having a wall of investigation in early episodes apparently never revisited the crime scene to see if he could use his new skills to find something that might have been missed in the original investigation.

 

Also The Flash could appear at the police station to prove that lightning fast guys do exist and maybe lend some credence to 10 year old Barry's claim that the super fast yellow guy did it. Or The Flash could dress in a yellow suit and confess and speed away before being arrested.

 

It feels like Barry says he wants his dad out of jail but I'm getting no indication that he's trying that hard to free him. Probably a writing failure.

[bettername2come]

Also The Flash could appear at the police station to prove that lightning fast guys do exist and maybe lend some credence to 10 year old Barry's claim that the super fast yellow guy did it. Or The Flash could dress in a yellow suit and confess and speed away before being arrested.

It feels like Barry says he wants his dad out of jail but I'm getting no indication that he's trying that hard to free him. Probably a writing failure.

 

The police know lightning fast guys exist now and they don't seem to care to apply it to a 15 year old murder; otherwise they would have probably issued a warrant for the Flash for Nora Allen's murder already. And I think that after years of trying to convince the police he wasn't lying for his father, Barry wouldn't try to get his father out of jail by lying for his father. 

 

Now that I think about it, it seems like someone (possibly Iris?) would say "OMG, Barry you were right! Your story makes sense now! The Flash did it!"

[wayne67]

The police know lightning fast guys exist now and they don't seem to care to apply it to a 15 year old murder; otherwise they would have probably issued a warrant for the Flash for Nora Allen's murder already. And I think that after years of trying to convince the police he wasn't lying for his father, Barry wouldn't try to get his father out of jail by lying for his father. 

 

Now that I think about it, it seems like someone (possibly Iris?) would say "OMG, Barry you were right! Your story makes sense now! The Flash did it!"

 

That's an interesting idea since Iris apparently wanted to blog about The Flash to give credence to Barry's story about the supernatural/unnatural and give hope to the city. Maybe now that she is on the paper she could report on The Flash and somehow relate that to Nora Allen's death. That could create drama for Barry, his alter ego blamed for his mother's death. I mean Iris has seen The Flash acting psychotic at least once before, maybe she could think he had some deep seated psychological issues along with his messiah complex and report on that .

 

Or Barry could run and punch things without thinking things through some more... I'm sure the latter is far more likely sadly.

[Xander]

I personally would have broken my father out a long time ago.