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Barry Allen


Lisin
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That issues also shows me that these writers don't have much a plan of this show. They basically do the same thing every episodes. Meta human shows up, Barry runs to them, gets beat, runs back to the lab, they figure out who the person is, Barry runs to them again, gets beat up, runs back to lab, the team figures out how to defeat the bad guy, Barry runs to them again and finally gets the upper hand and throws them in a tiny cell with no amenities.

 

Throw in Easter eggs from the comics, and there you have it. You'd think that having a blueprint via the comics would enable great storytelling. 

 

I don't expect him to be the bestest hero ever immediately but it takes him up to 3 fights usually to overcome humans with weapons or metahumans with obvious weaknesses and the only person to call him out on his continual ineptitude was Oliver who he basically ignored. Then there's everyone giving him free passes for nearly killing Eddie and engaging with the stupidest super prison ever and having no curiosity about the motives of Dr Wells and I'm like UGH with the hero propping.

 

It's like how they showed he was super smart in the first episode and then made a point that he could process information faster than any human ever and yet... He just spends every other episode bumbling around fighting petty crooks and thugs. Even the genius supervillains come up with the stupidest plans ever, lure Flash onto a bridge with equipment you don't totally control; or lure Flash to some random office buildings with cops all around the place. None of which makes much sense for a 12 year old to come up with, let alone purported genius level villains.

 

Yeah, I feel you, wayne67.

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Barry was under a meta humans power when he beat up Eddie, So I kind of understand the pass on that. Normal Barry would never done that. 

 

I agree with Barry's stupidity on dealing with the meta humans with no planning. He just runs there and hopes for the best. That's not really showing me that he's super smart. I would like more team work with the planning before he just runs out there. 

 

That issues also shows me that these writers don't have much a plan of this show. They basically do the same thing every episodes. Meta human shows up, Barry runs to them, gets beat, runs back to the lab, they figure out who the person is, Barry runs to them again, gets beat up, runs back to lab, the team figures out how to defeat the bad guy, Barry runs to them again and finally gets the upper hand and throws them in a tiny cell with no amenities.

 

I also wish he's stop calling himself a hero. A real hero wouldn't need that validation. They save lives because it's the right thing to do, not for the glory. 

 

The formula is repetitive and ridiculous.

 

I find him waiting for approval after he saved that woman from a car fire shows that while Barry may have a big heart *cough cough* he also wants the validation of hero worship even though it puts him at risk of being captured by the police for vigilantism. Then again it's not like the police are putting any effort into dealing with the metahuman issue that's been ongoing for the last 13 months apparently.

 

Also the metahumans influence only brought out the inner frustrations of the person involved as far as I could tell. Barry said a part of him meant those things. He does find Eddie a threat and he didn't like Oliver getting attention from Iris. He also doesn't think he should have to do his actual day time job answering to mortals.  He's a jealous insecure man child who hasn't grown up properly but noone touches those issues because "he means well."'

 

That said. I like that Barry has flaws I just wish that people would stop ignoring them and think it's sweet... It's deeply frustrating.

Edited by wayne67
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....

Also the metahumans influence only brought out the inner frustrations of the person involved as far as I could tell. Barry said a part of him meant those things. He does find Eddie a threat and he didn't like Oliver getting attention from Iris. He also doesn't think he should have to do his actual day time job answering to mortals. He's a jealous insecure man child who hasn't grown up properly but noone touches those issues because "he means well."

I'm not sure I would go quite that far, but I do see your point about the metahuman influence only revealing what he was feeling already. He has been jealous and frustrated and he has been acting out on those emotions even when he has been himself. A true friend and good guy would be happy for Iris and Eddie since Eddie has only shown the best intentions and Iris seems happy with him. Instead, he has made strange comments about it, openly flirted with her as the Flash (and shown smug enjoyment of the effect on her), and spilled his feelings when she was happily moving in with another man. Not cool. But he gets a pass.

As for the superhero stuff, I think his immaturity with that and the frivolous use of his powers is a plot point and I expect him to grow.

Edited by cynic
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I'm not sure I would go quite that far, but I do see your point about the metahuman influence only revealing what he was feeling already. He has been jealous and frustrated and he has been acting out on those emotions even when he has been himself. A true friend and good guy would be happy for Iris and Eddie since Eddie has only shown the best intentions and Iris seems happy with him. Instead, he has made strange comments about it, openly flirted with her as the Flash (and shown smug enjoyment of the effect on her), and spilled his feelings when she was happily moving in with another man. Not cool. But he gets a pass.

As for the superhero stuff, I think his immaturity with that and the frivolous use of his powers is a plot point and I expect him to grow.

I think of the red light like being like some people with alcohol it brings out the worst in them . I don't necessarily blame the alcohol for them acting out badly, it's a factor but it's not necessarily a complete excuse.

 

I don't know if Barry is actually growing, he seems to be regressing. He returned back to his childhood home (or at least between the ages of 11 to 18?) , he's indulging in a 12 year old fantasy fighting crime in a silly outfit naming all the bad guys ridiculous names, he's not thinking through the consequences of any of his actions and he gets cranky if someone steals his spotlight.  I haven't really seen much in the way of actual growth.

 

He may be trying to run faster and train harder with missiles but it doesn't seem like any of it's actually improving his combat thinking at all.

 

Should Barry need more motivation to take things seriously ?

 

Doesn't he want to free his father from prison legally and avenge his mother's death? Shouldn't that motivate him to take the training somewhat seriously over the last 4 months. Shouldn't he be spending more time training than watching NetFlix alone at nights?

 

Or at least track down the loose ends of Captain Cold, Pied Piper and Reverse Flash?

Edited by wayne67
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I see what you're saying. I do share some of the same frustration. It's like the characters are written much younger and more immature than their ages would suggest sometimes. Maybe they should have been made then actually younger if the show wanted to do these sorts of story lines. (Except for Caitlin, who seems like she should her older and more mature based on her story and I wish they had cast someone who at least didn't have such a childish demeanor.)

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I wonder if they'll bring Wally onto the show? 

Before I would've said no, because this is Barry's show, but Arrow doesn't seem to care that it's called Arrow anymore. So it's entirely possible to bring in more heroes on this show. 

 

They've teased about Wally enough times that it's obvious they're thinking about it. Wally is most people's favourite Flash so it's only natural. And I wonder if they're thinking about the day Grant's contract is up and the chance that he might want to leave, because then they'll have Wally to replace him with. 

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Per the wiki, he was born in 1989, do he should be 26 this year if that's accurate.

 

He comes across as a very young 20 something... I aged him up because he's a CSI with no oversight which implies at least a few years of actual experience then again it may just be laziness regarding researching CSI positions.

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He comes across as a very young 20 something... I aged him up because he's a CSI with no oversight which implies at least a few years of actual experience then again it may just be laziness regarding researching CSI positions.

Didn't they have Martin Stein say he looked really young to be a CSI? Barry said something like, "that's what they tell me" or something?

Or did he say he was a genius or something? Now I can't remember.

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That said. I like that Barry has flaws I just wish that people would stop ignoring them and think it's sweet... It's deeply frustrating.

 

Exactly.  This is why I can't just handwave Barry's issues as just flaws.  I think you made a good parallel regarding the metahuman's powers vs alcohol.  I'm glad that Iris called The Flash out at the end of that episode, since everyone else just dropped it like he wasn't warned about what was happening to him.  That he had foreknowledge doesn't put him in the same spot as the regular humans who were influenced, not to mention his superhuman metabolism.  I stated in that episode thread that the show wasn't going to explore Barry's issues, though.  And they haven't.  I feel like the show is implying that it's just growing pains, but Barry isn't a kid. 

 

That's why I think they should have just had Barry be younger, perhaps a teenager/college student, since that's more or less how they're writing him. Grant Gustin already has a babyface, so it could have worked.       

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Aside from the points folks have made about things that are frustrating about Barry, I have to add one.

Iris before the mid season finale, never blew Barry off or made him feel like a 3rd wheel when she was with Eddie. She routinely did things with Barry and hung out with him and spent time with him. They still hung out as besties. When Iris came into an area with Barry and Eddie - she NEVER made Barry feel like he was barely there - she always spoke to him and treated him as her BFF. The ONLY time she ever treated him awkwardly was when Barry told her they needed to spend time apart... and once they had an awkward meeting after Barry's confession, but that wasn't because Eddie was there or because she was putting Eddie first - it was just ... awkward.

But since Barry has started seeing Linda post-confession, he's been acting like a butthurt little b#tch, honestly. He's actually upset that Iris hasn't fallen into his arms. Barely acknowledging her when he comes to HER job to meet up with Linda (that's a b#tch@ss move), nearly running over her when leaving Linda and barely saying hi... after Iris came to him as a friend again after they had the fist bump (we'll be back to normal soon speech from Barry) and he said he'd help her - but then popped up on her without seeing if she had plans - well since then he's been acting like a straight up punk. He's literally acting like Iris OWED him something and sadly it seems like he only does BFF stuff with her because he thought she'd fall into his arms eventually.

No woman needs a friend - or man - like that.

And don't get me started on all of the lies.

Yet - Iris is the one who got pilloried over her verbal diarrhea? Barry is acting with some deep-seated resentment towards Iris repeatedly, but "that's okay", but Iris is getting flamed out of control for ONE slip up.

I may want WestAllen, but I'm gonna need Barry to get his life first. And I'm gonna need to see Iris go the freak off on him at some point - don't sweep Barry's foolishness under the rug.

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But since Barry has started seeing Linda post-confession, he's been acting like a butthurt little b#tch, honestly. He's actually upset that Iris hasn't fallen into his arms. Barely acknowledging her when he comes to HER job to meet up with Linda (that's a b#tch@ss move), nearly running over her when leaving Linda and barely saying hi... after Iris came to him as a friend again after they had the fist bump (we'll be back to normal soon speech from Barry) and he said he'd help her - but then popped up on her without seeing if she had plans - well since then he's been acting like a straight up punk. .

I didn't see any of that. He came to the place his date (iris doesn't own the office!) worked to pick her up and was perfectly friendly with iris even a bit sheepish about meeting someone not her.

It was stupid for him to run to meet iris without calling when she was with Eddie that time but he wasn't impolite to anyone.

Edited by Shanna
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I didn't see any of that. He came to the place his date (iris doesn't own the office!) worked to pick her up and was perfectly friendly with iris even a bit sheepish about meeting someone not her.

That's fair - except I was referring to his behavior since then once he kinda knew he had Linda on the hook. I stand by my view of how Barry has been acting. It's not like it's not uncommon. Boy tries to get girl. Girl rejects guy. Guy gets butthurt and then behaves in a way to subtly and passive-aggressively shove new girl in old girl's face.

Barry couldn't pick Linda up anywhere else - like her HOME? Come on - half of that was a show for Iris.

It was stupid for him to run to meet iris without calling when she was with Eddie that time but he wasn't impolite to anyone.

I'm referring to the "nice guy" call he placed to Caitlin directly after where he acted like a punk and was clearly mad that Iris didn't just fall into his arms. That was punk b#tch territory. He acted like Iris owed him something.

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That's fair - except I was referring to his behavior since then once he kinda knew he had Linda on the hook. I stand by my view of how Barry has been acting. It's not like it's not uncommon. Boy tries to get girl. Girl rejects guy. Guy gets butthurt and then behaves in a way to subtly and passive-aggressively shove new girl in old girl's face.

Barry couldn't pick Linda up anywhere else - like her HOME? Come on - half of that was a show for Iris.

 

Seemed like Iris ignored Barry's love confession and Barry moved on to someone who basically did all the work to get the relationship started. Iris is the one being passive aggressive about her jealousy when she's got a boyfriend she's living with. Barry doesn't need to hide his new relationship from Iris because Iris never professed any feelings about Barry's love life and shouldn't care if he's dating someone.

 

That said. I think they're both acting like teenagers and it makes me frustrated at the both of them. Barry because he's coming across as some kind of lame creeper and Iris because SHE HAS A BLOODY BOYFRIEND and she's flirting with a super hero in a skin tight costume and hiding Barry's love confession from Eddie.

Edited by wayne67
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Seemed like Iris ignored Barry's love confession and Barry moved on to someone who basically did all the work to get the relationship started. Iris is the one being passive aggressive about her jealousy when she's got a boyfriend she's living with. Barry doesn't need to hide his new relationship from Iris because Iris never professed any feelings about Barry's love life and shouldn't care if he's dating someone.

 

That said. I think they're both acting like teenagers and it makes me frustrated at the both of them. Barry because he's coming across as some kind of lame creeper and Iris because SHE HAS A BLOODY BOYFRIEND and she's flirting with a super hero in a skin tight costume and hiding Barry's love confession from Eddie.

My point was that Iris had ONE bout of verbal diarrhea, but she's getting her 1 actions compared and equated to Barry's list of crazy. I find that unfair.

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Barry doesn't have to hide his relationship, but he could have been more sensitive to the feelings of the girl he claims to love and be best friends with. I tend to agree with those that think it was a bit passive aggressive to make plans at Iris' workplace. If he was just thinking that she wouldn't care, why didn't he mention it to her beforehand? Aren't they best friends? Wouldn't you mention it to your best friend that you meet someone they work with and would be showing up there for a date?

I think the pepper thing was partly for Iris too, to really drive home that he was into another girl instead of her. Why else make a scene at her work place? Why not just send her flowers with a sincere letter? And honestly, I'd be kinda bent if some guy I went out with 1.5 times, who is apparently isn't over some other chick, who lied to me, and who I already called things off from due to his weirdness, showed up at my job and broadcast my personal business to all my coworkers while pressuring me to give in due to public awkwardness. I honestly can't believe Linda went for it. She seems too together for that.

As for Iris, I'd be kind of irritated that he pulled that stunt no matter who it was directed at. She already used having trouble getting taken seriously. She doesn't need for people to associate her with stuff like that.

Plus, I agree that he was semi-rude in a way that Iris has never been to him.

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Barry couldn't pick Linda up anywhere else - like her HOME? Come on - half of that was a show for Iris.

 

Absolutely it was a show for Iris. He's still in love with her, and wanted to make her jealous.  It worked.  Despite herself -- or maybe because deep down she has feelings for him -- she's wondering about Barry (just a little) in ways she never did before. 

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Absolutely it was a show for Iris. He's still in love with her, and wanted to make her jealous.  It worked.  Despite herself -- or maybe because deep down she has feelings for him -- she's wondering about Barry (just a little) in ways she never did before. 

 

Perhaps it was to show he was moving on. Then again considering he had been crushing on her for a decade or something, I'm guessing his love is more of a festering wound rather than anything healthy.

 

I wish we knew how Eddie and Iris were doing so we knew how messy this was supposed to get.

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They basically do the same thing every episodes. Meta human shows up, Barry runs to them, gets beat, runs back to the lab, they figure out who the person is, Barry runs to them again, gets beat up, runs back to lab, the team figures out how to defeat the bad guy, Barry runs to them again and finally gets the upper hand

 

And sometimes, he just gets lucky. Who saw Iris knocking out Girder? I still have no idea what happened with Blackout.  And Captain Cold has pretty much had his number.

 

My only real problem with Barry is that he does dumb stuff and rarely suffers the consequences: Removing his mask to brag to girder about finally beat him ( even though it was Iris), humiliating Caitlin and not even bothering to apologize to her, threatening that scientist  in order to get her to hand over that device and then losing it. I get this is TV and that nothing horrific is ever going to happen to Barry, but if there are never any negative consequences for his bad actions then there's no tension.

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Seemed like Iris ignored Barry's love confession and Barry moved on to someone who basically did all the work to get the relationship started. Iris is the one being passive aggressive about her jealousy when she's got a boyfriend she's living with. Barry doesn't need to hide his new relationship from Iris because Iris never professed any feelings about Barry's love life and shouldn't care if he's dating someone.

That said. I think they're both acting like teenagers and it makes me frustrated at the both of them. Barry because he's coming across as some kind of lame creeper and Iris because SHE HAS A BLOODY BOYFRIEND and she's flirting with a super hero in a skin tight costume and hiding Barry's love confession from Eddie.

Yes all of this. Iris has not had any feelings for him as far as he knows. He has no reason to think that she would give a damn he was dating anyone else. I don't think that was passive aggressive, just a guy going on dates with someone who hit on him at a bar a happens to work at the same place iris does. She has probably worked their longer. I didn't think the pepper thing was directed at iris since I think it took place in Linda's department which is probably different from Iris's.

I do get frustrated that Barry is immature but this week did not really reflect that for me. All of Oliver's teaching down the drain because he didn't seem to learn anything although it was funny as hell when he got shot with an arrow. This is one reason I never really saw great relationship chemistry with felicity-he always seemed too immature compared to Oliver.

Edited by Shanna
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I have a problem with Team Flash as a whole. I just dont see a great dynamic between them and find Caitlin and Cisco for the most part useless. They have to kind of dumb Barry down and weaken his powers to make them useful.

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I'm more inclined to agree with Wayne67's & Shanna's views. Barry didn't go seeking a girl who works with Iris. It just happens that the girl who hit on him does. And that's because the writers want to use her to make Iris jealous. Barry's confessed to his BFF who as far as we know, never gave him a response so I find his behavior to be pretty natural. 

 

Barry has got a ton of issues but I think that's perfectly fine. I don't find them frustrating because they are all part of his personality/character. But in order to grow, he needs to be called out on them. I'm not an Oliver fan but I like his relationship with Barry. He needs someone like that in his life. 

Edited by Xander
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I'm more inclined to agree with Wayne67's & Shanna's views. Barry didn't go seeking a girl who works with Iris. It just happens that the girl who hit on him does. And that's because the writers want to use her to make Iris jealous. Barry's confessed to his BFF who as far as we know, never gave him a response so I find his behavior to be pretty natural.

I agree that Barry didn't seek out Linda because she works where Iris does. That's not at all what I said.

What I said was that Barry made the choice to meet Linda at work and see her constantly at work BECAUSE Iris is there as well. He is putting on a show for Iris and I find that to be reprehensible.

He couldn't pick Linda up at - oh I don't know - her HOME? Like a real date?

Nah - he's doing this to put on a show for Iris and shove Linda in her face.

Also - Barry immediately got up from the couch after his confession and gave Iris no time at all to process or give him a response. Apparently, according to Iris, she didn't reciprocate (at the time), but we were never shown that (darn you writers!). And I do wonder if Iris meant, she didn't reciprocate as in "I can't think about that right now cause I have a boyfriend and we're moving in together" or "I don't have those kinds of feelings at all for Barry". I'm not sure now which she may have meant. We never got to see her vocal reaction to find out what was in her head.

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Let's see. 

 

The first date was a lunch date so he showed up at her job. 

They met in front of her apartment complex for their second date. 

She came to his house for their third date. 

Then he showed up at her job to apologize for leaving in the middle of their make-out session. I don't know, should he have waited till night time before trying to explain himself?  Iris wasn't even in the office for their conversation. She only saw him as he left. On the same day, he eats hot pepper to prove that he's into her. 

 

Iris didn't have a chance to respond on the night of the confession but she didn't say anything during their awkward phase nor when they were hanging out at Jitters after Barry told her that he saw a future where they could be best friends. She had plenty of opportunities to respond but she never did. She says she rejected him but we're left to believe she never really said anything and it's was assumed by both of them that her silence was rejection. 

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I didn't think Barry was throwing Linda in Iris' face. I'd have to believe he was truly interested in Linda for that, and I've not seen enough of them to know one way or the other.  But I think the writers had him go to Linda at work to continue stirring up the "Iris is jealous" angle.  A phone call to Linda could have achieved the same thing as unexpectedly showing up at her job.  Or, you know, Barry could have just told Linda that their date could be cut short because he was expecting an important call. No drama required. The pepper thing is just more...immaturity.

 

But again, I really think the writers don't think of Barry having any issues that detract from his character, otherwise, there would either be demonstrated consequences for his actions, or someone holding him accountable.  Even Peter Parker got the "with great power comes great responsibility" speech pretty early on, right? We got a couple of minutes with Oliver several episodes ago; otherwise, crickets.

 

I think cynic makes a good point in Barry not telling Iris about dating Linda.  Why wouldn't BFFs tell each other about dates? And it also goes back to Oscirus' (I think) point of Barry only being friends with Iris because of his romantic feelings.  Now that she doesn't appear to reciprocate them, their friendship dynamic has changed, at least on Barry's part.  I understand that, even if I've never felt Iris was required to reciprocate his romantic feelings.  Maybe he can't handle being friends anymore, and should just say so? He's had no problems doing that before, even when the reasoning didn't make much sense.

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He probably didnt tell iris about Linda because they are kind of trying to pretend their talk didn't happen or something. And. Because he might feel awkward about it in a way he didn't before.

But he didn't get weird when she asked why he was there and try to hide it. Plus, it was a first lunch date. Which is not really a big deal. Maybe he just wouldn't have bothered to tell her until things were getting serious. I actually am forming a but of a head canon that he has never really gotten into his dating stuff with iris because I surely don't believe he hasn't had dates the way he acted with felicity and the way he is adorable. Iris doesn't seem to really know about then from her talk with Linda so I think that makes the most sense.

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The question becomes does Barry have to tell Iris about who he's dating?

 

He was meeting Linda for a first date and she found out literally minutes before they went on a first date.

 

At that point he'd only have I met this woman at a bar and she touched her phone to mine and left... or he left and we're meeting for lunch. It's not exactly groundbreaking news especially since he didn't seem that enthused about the prospect anyway.

 

If we're going with the BFF aspect than Barry should have told Iris about The Flash thing months ago or that he was in love with her YEARS AGO when she wasn't dating someone. Barry doesn't tell Iris lots of things, at this point I don't consider him not telling her about a first date indicative of some vast elaborate plan to rub a first date in her face.

 

If he really wanted to rub it in her face he'd make out with another woman. Then again at this point she's still in a relationship with someone else while he's trying to date after a year hiatus from the dating world so if she was his friend she would be happy for him moving on.

 

At this point I don't think they're really friends anyway for a whole bunch of reasons.

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There is literally know reason for Barry to think even sleeping with Linda on the desk in front of iris would be rubbing it in her face if he had no reason to think iris feels anything but friendship for him. Which he doesn't. Iris rejected him and stayed with her boyfriend. She doesn't feel the same about him. Why would she care if he is dating someone else?

(I mean I know the only reason People think it's an issue is because comics and because the writers are going with the cheap trope here but BArry himself has no reason to think any of this would bother iris in the slightest).

Edited by Shanna
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There is literally know reason for Barry to think even sleeping with Linda on the desk in front of iris would be rubbing it in her face if he had no reason to think iris feels anything but friendship for him. Which he doesn't. Iris rejected him and stayed with her boyfriend. She doesn't feel the same about him. Why would she care if he is dating someone else?

(I mean I know the only reason People think it's an issue is because comics and because the writers are going with the cheap trope here but BArry himself has no reason to think any of this would bother iris in the slightest).

 

Thanks Shanna now I'm picturing Barry super speeding his way through sex with Linda on Iris's desk while Iris remains clueless about the act.

 

Which would mean that he trusts Linda with his secrets more than Iris but that's a whole another bag of worms.

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Thanks Shanna now I'm picturing Barry super speeding his way through sex with Linda on Iris's desk while Iris remains clueless about the act.s.

I would totally watch that show and now I'm sad that it will never happen.
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I would totally watch that show and now I'm sad that it will never happen.

 

It would be over in a flash... lol

 

On a semi related subject does it bother anyone else how inconsistent Barry's speed is ? At some points the Flash Gang is like you have to work to break the speed of sound when he disappears from sight frequently.

 

How did Peekaboo's bf escape him when he had been shot 10 show minutes ago.

 

*sigh*

Edited by wayne67
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As many problems as I have with the show, I'll just hand wave Peek A Boo's bofo disappearing as Peek a Boo being the more important prisoner so they just let him go while worrying about securing her.

 

As for the thing with Iris I tend to believe it's not so much that she's jealous of Barry as much as it's that she wants to be the woman that Barry's paying attention to esp at her job.

 

I've always wondered how the hell that Eddie doesn't have a problem with the stuff that Barry does with Iris. I know  he was jealous early in their relationship but Barry has gotten worse since then. I'm not expecting him to be a caveman but at least have a talk with Barry.

Edited by Oscirus
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As many problems as I have with the show, I'll just hand wave Peek A Boo's bofo disappearing as Peek a Boo being the more important prisoner so they just let him go while worrying about securing her.

 

As for the thing with Iris I tend to believe it's not so much that she's jealous of Barry as much as it's that she wants to be the woman that Barry's paying attention to esp at her job.

 

I've always wondered how the hell that Eddie doesn't have a problem with the stuff that Barry does with Iris. I know  he was jealous early in their relationship but Barry has gotten worse since then. I'm not expecting him to be a caveman but at least have a talk with Barry.

 

Except Peekaboo and The Flash just sat there sharing an awkward depressing moment noticing that her bf ran off... It's not like Barry couldn't superspeed her to a prison cell or a basement for the literally 3 seconds it would take to run up and down the streets to catch an injured human and cart him off to jail.

 

Iris talks about her reporting job enough at her other job? or the other place she used to work discussing personal stuff with her BFF at reporting job would just be weird. Iris's story is so patchy it's hard to tell what's going on with her. Is she supposed to be studying still? is that reporting job full time? Did she quit her waitressing job?

 

As for Eddie he gets even less of a POV than Iris because he's the placeholder bf so he comes across like Cyclops in the Xmen movie franchise, a dull impediment to the supposed romance between people who've never ever dated. Which is a disservice because Eddie and Barry have actually had a few nice moments together with the boxing lesson and the trivia night. Despite The Flash nearly killing him once.

 

Eddie seems to be fading into the background, he doesn't seem to care about the Flash task force or about his girlfriend flirting with a costumed hero or Barry being all super weird with his girlfriend.

 

At the very least Eddie should tell Barry off for disrespecting Iris.

 

Ugh. I'd be willing to overlook Barry's flaws if he ever had to deal with the consequences of that flawed behavior.

Edited by wayne67
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Except Peekaboo and The Flash just sat there sharing an awkward depressing moment noticing that her bf ran off... It's not like Barry couldn't superspeed her to a prison cell or a basement for the literally 3 seconds it would take to run up and down the streets to catch an injured human and cart him off to jail

 

I think I can counter this. hmm.... Since Peekaboo derives her powers from lights, he had to stay around the lab in case something went wrong like she escaped.

 

Eddie seems to be fading into the background, he doesn't seem to care about the Flash task force or about his girlfriend flirting with a costumed hero or Barry being all super weird with his girlfriend

 

 

I'll take this over into the Eddie thread

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I think I can counter this. hmm.... Since Peekaboo derives her powers from lights, he had to stay around the lab in case something went wrong like she escaped.

 

He could have just knocked her unconscious for a red hot minute. I mean he's going to ignore her civil liberties anyway why pull any punches when completing his mission. After all the bf was the one who shot him. Hell he could have taken a sedative with him and just jabbed her at any point.

 

That's why the Barry fights are always so lacklustre to me... They consist of running and punching. He works with super scientists with a million dollar setup and he just punches people at super speed over and over again. How boring.

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I think they do need someone on Team Flash that will call Barry out on his flaws, like Diggle used to on Arrow. Wells won't because he's trying to get Barry to do something that will play out in the future, Caitlin is just as weird and needy as Barry is and Cisco is mostly just the comic relief. They need a stronger presence in the lab. 

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I think Cailin is supposed to be that person. She tends to call him out on his Iris fixation and she's normally the dissenting voice whenever he tries to do anything too crazy. However, it's hard to take her seriously when she's starting to act more and more like Cisco.

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I think Cailin is supposed to be that person. She tends to call him out on his Iris fixation and she's normally the dissenting voice whenever he tries to do anything too crazy. However, it's hard to take her seriously when she's starting to act more and more like Cisco.

 

Caitlin seems like she's the person that points out the flaws in Barry's plans but Barry doesn't really listen very often so it lacks real meaning. Caitlin can't inflict any consequences for Barry's failures, she often seems to console him after his failures.

 

She pointed out that he could have died from the bullet but he doesn't take her seriously and he doesn't modify his behavior at all. When someone points out your flaws and you don't care about it, that's not a consequence. At least Oliver got to shoot him with arrows even though that had little long term impact. Caitlin just patches his wounds and essentially tutts over him like a mother... It's a disservice to both characters.

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There is literally know reason for Barry to think even sleeping with Linda on the desk in front of iris would be rubbing it in her face if he had no reason to think iris feels anything but friendship for him. Which he doesn't. Iris rejected him and stayed with her boyfriend. She doesn't feel the same about him. Why would she care if he is dating someone else?

(I mean I know the only reason People think it's an issue is because comics and because the writers are going with the cheap trope here but BArry himself has no reason to think any of this would bother iris in the slightest).

People do stuff like that all the time. "Maybe s/he will see me differently if only" crap. An ex losing weight, dolling themselves up, and flaunting dates after being dumped to either instill jealousy or to signal how over them they are is fairly common (sadly). Barry isn't an ex, but he was rejected (apparently since we have no idea how Iris dealt with it unfortunately). Also, we don't even know Iris doesn't have any feelings towards him or if she just didn't feel like blowing up her relationship with Eddie in order to explore them since Barry has the worst timing in the world. Even if Barry isn't trying to make Iris jealous, I could see him subconsciously wanting to signal to Iris just how over her he is, if only out of the embarrassment and awkwardness of confessing feelings and then having to go back to being best friends. Anyway, I think that's actually less of a reach than theorizing Iris blocked Linda due to her jealousy or wanting all of Barry's attention. Edited by cynic
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Also - I think you guys have your timeline of events wrong.

  1. Barry picked up Linda at the office (that's when Iris and Linda met - being introduced by Barry right before he took her out on their first date).  This happened at the end of the crazy for you episode (Barry picking her up at the newspaper office in front of Iris).  
  2. Then, when this past week's episode came on, Barry is eating a taco that's too hot.  We know it's their first date because Linda kissed Barry and when he asked why she said it was because she wanted to make sure she wanted a second date.  All of this happened before the opening credits rolled.
  3. Then Barry is talking with Cisco and Caitlin at Jitters about him going on a second date and Iris overhears (sad that she's BFF with him and she has to overhear it - I really dislike Barry right now) and asks about it. When Barry says he's going out with Linda again, Iris goes, "That's great - you're great... so great!" and Barry's face does this weird little thing between a scowl and a pout.
  4. Then Barry and Linda go out again - for half a date, because Barry ran out.  Notice that Linda met him at his home - the ONLY time Barry doesn't pick her up at the office happens to be when SHE comes to HIM?  Yeah - that's not suspicious at all.
  5. Then Barry runs out on his make out session with Linda (she apparently just wanted to make out and not go out) for Flash business.
  6. Then Barry shows up at Linda's job to apologize I guess - though - he couldn't have called?  He just HAD to show up at her job that he knows Iris works at too?

 

Sorry - the sequence of events could be taken innocently - if you give Barry the benefit of the doubt.  But considering he finally called Linda up for a date AFTER he got peeved at Iris for daring to have plans she couldn't cancel for him I think she's serving a dual purpose:  letting Barry move on and giving Barry something to shove in Iris' face.  Barry really seems like he's putting on a show for Iris - and worse, he's not really looking like much of a friend to her right now.  If he can't be friends, he should just say so.  Prior to her verbal slip with Linda, Iris hadn't done anything wrong - yet Barry was kinda being an ass to her (that moment he got mad at her because she wouldn't cancel plans with Eddie and his parents?).  Since he met Linda, it's almost like Barry is acting like Iris is no longer relevant to him at all.  He's definitely NOT being a good friend to her at this point and actually seems to resent her a bit.

 

When you add up all the pieces it certainly is more d@mning to Barry than Iris.  Barry's got a whole list of shady going on (see above), while Iris had ONE slip.

 

Worse, I'm sure the writers don't even see it - and are likely never going to hold Barry accountable for it.

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People do stuff like that all the time. "Maybe s/he will see me differently if only" crap. An ex losing weight, dolling themselves up, and flaunting dates after being dumped to either instill jealousy or to signal how over them they are is fairly common (sadly). Barry isn't an ex, but he was rejected (apparently since we have no idea how Iris dealt with it unfortunately).

Also, we don't even know Iris doesn't have any feelings towards him

Anyway, I think that's actually less of a reach than theorizing Iris blocked Linda due to her jealousy or wanting all of Barry's attention.

To the first point, yes some people do irrational things like that but as I don't think it really played like that on screen ( blocking, sketchy looks and what have you) I don't see any reason to assume those are Barry's motivations. I certainly think the other option, that he was pretty innocently picking his date up at her job for a lunch date, and later went specifically to her office to try to make nice, seems more likely. Ymmv.

Second point, I think this show being what it is, iris probably IS developing feelings for him but he has no way of knowing that. So there is no reason for him to think any of this would Iris's feelings.

Third point, I don't actually think iris blocke Linda due to jealousy, but I do think she overstepped her bounds and blocked him a bit on accident and it was perfectly all right for Barry to be a little pissed. I'm sure he's already over it so it's not really a big deal.

Phoenics, I personally was pretty clear on the sequence of events I just disagree with your read.

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So - Shanna - are you sure you were clear? Because you said this:

Plus, it was a first lunch date. Which is not really a big deal.

I read from you and several others that Barry and Linda's first date was at lunchtime and that's why he was there - but it wasn't lunchtime actually. That's not how it went down. Sure - I understand we disagree about the ramifications of Barry's actions and why he did stuff - but the timeline you were using to support that was incorrect.

As I listed out what happened, I believe it lent credence to the way I took it - that Barry WAS putting on a show for Iris.

And I disagree that there weren't any sketchy looks. When Iris overheard Barry and the Scooby Gang talking about his second date coming up and then she did the whole "Great, it's great!" (lol) thing, Barry DID have a weird look on his face in response - almost like he was disappointed that she didn't look disappointed (though if he had a scrap of sense, he would have seen that she WAS disappointed and putting on a fake show).

Sorry - I'm sick and home (on Valentine's Day!) and all I have are The Flash episodes and Empire. Oh and Avengers, right now. And orange juice, lol. It's a marathon day.

But - that being said - I do agree that Barry wouldn't necessarily know Iris was feeling stuff - he's convinced himself that she wouldn't (hell, he got up from the couch that fast because he assumed she wouldn't). But that doesn't prevent him from trying to put on a show for her anyway to say, "Ha! See what you rejected!?"

It happens all the time.

Edited by phoenics
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The problem with the theory that Barry's trying to make Iris jealous is evidence that you guys already presented. The fact that he didn't tell Iris that he was going on a date with another girl. Wouldn't that be the best way to make Iris jealous. Even if we chalk that up to forgetfulness then why wouldn't they go on a date to the coffee shop where he knows that Iris would be?

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The problem with the theory that Barry's trying to make Iris jealous is evidence that you guys already presented. The fact that he didn't tell Iris that he was going on a date with another girl. Wouldn't that be the best way to make Iris jealous. Even if we chalk that up to forgetfulness then why wouldn't they go on a date to the coffee shop where he knows that Iris would be?

Um - Barry picked Linda up for their first date at Iris' job... where he knew Iris would be. So - that's how Iris knew about the first date.

That's kinda been my point?

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The problem with the theory that Barry's trying to make Iris jealous is evidence that you guys already presented. The fact that he didn't tell Iris that he was going on a date with another girl. Wouldn't that be the best way to make Iris jealous. Even if we chalk that up to forgetfulness then why wouldn't they go on a date to the coffee shop where he knows that Iris would be?

 

If Barry was trying to make Iris jealous shouldn't he be happier to have succeeded? If the entire relationship with Linda was just a ploy to get back at Iris shouldn't he be doubling down on that emotion for whatever rather than dissing Iris? Maybe he had a subconscious desire to rub his emotional progress in Iris's face but when the relationship with Linda hit the rocks he went after Linda.

 

That said I really wish they'd stop with this stupid love quandrangle.

Edited by wayne67
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Um - Barry picked Linda up for their first date at Iris' job... where he knew Iris would be. So - that's how Iris knew about the first date.

 

 As opposed to telling Iris about a girl he was dating ?  That seems like a needlessly complicated plan to me.

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 As opposed to telling Iris about a girl he was dating ?  That seems like a needlessly complicated plan to me.

 

I think we have 13 episodes of evidence that Barry doesn't really plan things even when civilian lives are at risk so I doubt he had an elaborate plan to make Iris jealous of some random woman he met in a bar.

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Phoenics, Barry picked Linda up for the first date. LUNCH. Ep 12

The second date was in the evening when he was trying on different outfits and gave her a flower when he went to pick her up in front of her apartment. This was the second date (the show called it the first date) 

The third date (the show called it the second date) was when she met him at his place. Also in the evening. 

 

 

Barry was kinda being an ass to her (that moment he got mad at her because she wouldn't cancel plans with Eddie and his parents?).

 

This isn't even true. He was perfectly polite to her when he met her and Eddie. Afterwards, he expressed his frustration to Caitlin but are you going to call him an ass to Iris when she wasn't even there to witness this? 

 

 

Since he met Linda, it's almost like Barry is acting like Iris is no longer relevant to him at all.

I don't get it. Is he supposed to be kissing her feet or something? He's finally making strides to get over her so it stands to reason that he won't want to be around her as much. It doesn't mean they aren't still friends. If he'd informed her of his dates, some will accuse him of throwing Linda in his face. He doesn't, and he's not being a good friend. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

 

The show is clearly going for a jealousy storyline and you're holding it against him because Iris gets to see him at her job. This is Iris who has a boyfriend that she lives with but apparently, Barry is wrong for showing up to talk to the girl he's dating. Explaining himself to Linda in person is better than a phone call.

 

This is the same show that has Barry witness all of Iris and Eddie's make-out sessions for his jealousy storyline. Clearly, that's just their style.  

Edited by Xander
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