Spoilers and Discussion

[camussie]

I just don't agree it is stupid.  It isn't unheard of people to think they are not ready for the "big leagues" and instead want to get more experience/education instead.  See Jessica Williams who has been talked about as a replacement for John Stewart on "The Daily Show" and who has flat out said she isn't ready.  In Rachel's case she proved last spring she wasn't ready.  I applaud her for recognizing that and choosing the option that builds a career.  Obviously it works because she gets a Tony (of course).

 

Let's be real to, most 19 year-olds are immature.

 

 

Most are but if they are expected to carry a multi-million dollar production they need to temper that immaturity some how.  Some can rise to the occasion through mere determination.  Rachel obviously could not.  That is Glee canon now so her choosing NYADA is her saying this was a weakness and before I can really build a Broadway career I need to work my way through it.  

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[KatWay]

In the UK, many performers study acting at University before getting long-term roles. Most people don't try out for gigs right out of high school, but go to college first. Acting education is valued and these people are respected because they actually put in the time and effort to study their craft.

[jaytee1812]

In the UK, many performers study acting at University before getting long-term roles. Most people don't try out for gigs right out of high school, but go to college first. Acting education is valued and these people are respected because they actually put in the time and effort to study their craft.

Do you remember the show Over The Rainbow. For those that don't it was a TV show with a public vote to cast Dorothy in the west end production of the Wizard of Oz. There were a few of these shows in the UK to find other leads but because of the nature of the role 'The Dorothys' were particularly young. And it was interesting that apart from the winner and a couple who were already post education most chose to go into education and complete their degrees despite the TV exposure they had. Most of them are done now and seem to do pretty well work wise.

https://twitter.com/msleamichele/status/569185908148170752

 

Lea, Chris, Darren, and Matt I presume from todays filming

 

Amber, Jenna, and Kevin are also filming today

  

Hmm.  I wonder if Will, Blaine, and Kurt are at the Tony's after all and we see them right before she wins.  Or maybe they are dressed up for Rachel's party.  

 

Becca is also filming today and I am going to assume Chord and Jonathon are as well.

I hope Tina, Mercedes and Kitty aren't at The Tony's, although this being Glee they might as well go the whole hog and put them in Cheerios uniforms given their only purpose seems to be being Rachel Berry's cheerleaders.

[camussie]

We know Jesse is.  I think there is an off chance Will, kurt and Blaine are since supposedly Rachel thanks both Kurt & Will.  I wouldn't expect the rest to be.   I would expect the 5 originals, Will, Blaine, and Sam to be at the party celebrating her Tony.  As for Kitty, the newbies 2.0 are filming today as well so I wonder if there are a couple of more NND scenes to film.  That would make more sense to me than Kitty being at that Tony celebration party.  The NND are not filming a performance, though, because the last performance in the auditorium was the 30 person strong future ND and that was filmed either yesterday or early this morning,  

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[rlj67]

Yes there is a MHS scene and the after party for the Tony being filmed today

[dizzyizzy01]

The choice between a paying legitimate starring role and paying thousands of dollars for school is more like the winner of over the rainbow deciding nope I won the show but j/k don't want the gig, I'm going back to school.

And comparing Jessica Williams situation to Rachel's is also pretty apples and oranges. She has a career. She's not turning down the opportunity to go back to school to try and get a similar opportunity later. Also I don't think Jessica's actually in serious contention for the job anyway.

Edited February 21, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[camussie]

That makes sense then.  The newbies + Kitty and maybe Will/Kurt/Blaine are at McKinley High school.  This will probably be a current year flash forward i.e. few months,  Then there is the Tony party which seems to be a 5 year flash forward.  It seems that will include Jesse, Will, Kurt, Blaine (who also may be at the Tony's), Sam, Mercedes, Tina & Artie.  

 

And comparing Jessica Williams situation to Rachel's is also pretty apples and oranges. She has a career. She's not turning down the opportunity to go back to school to try and get a similar opportunity later

 

.

Not at all.  She is turning down a chance at one of the most coveted jobs on TV because she feels she isn't ready.  Likewise Rachel is turning down a Broadway role because she feels she isn't ready.  More than that she has proven she isn't ready.  It isn't like she is going to school in Siberia.  She is going to school, that in the Glee-verse is very connected to the Broadway community  I think the best real world comparison is the Drama Division at Julliard.  If you look at the people who have come up through the different groups the list is endless of those who finished their education and made it in theater, TV, and film.  Yes some dropped but many also saw it through.  

 

I am just glad I have one thing to applaud Rachel for in this mess of a story.  To me the NYADA re-admission, the role Rachel won based on an audition Mercedes landed her, and a Tony win merely 5 years later are all completely undeserved but at least Rachel realizes she has some seasoning to do before she should tackle Broadway again.  After all if she was so ready she would have been out there pounding the pavement for a job herself before Mercedes called in some favors for the audition.

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

So say I get a job one that I am qualified for and one I had to interview for and prove my capabilities to to the employer is undeserved becasue a  friend referred me for the job?  Wow a heck of a lot people out there in undeserved jobs.

[jaytee1812]

So say I get a job one that I am qualified for and one I had to interview for and prove my capabilities to to the employer is undeserved becasue a  friend referred me for the job?  Wow a heck of a lot people out there in undeserved jobs.

I'll bet every single person on this thread has work with someone who isn't great at their job and either got it or keeps it because of who they are friends with.

Haven't we suggest that some of the actors on this show are undeserving and get more screen time because they're liked rather than they're better?

[fakeempress]

I get the narrative they're trying to sell here, but nobody hones their craft over taking a paying role. Lea Michele herself tossed over Tisch to do Spring Awakening. It's what sane people do. Legit work is so hard to come by for even extremely talented actors that you don't toss over real work to go to acting school. It's not what actual working actors do. Some do go to college because they want to go to college, but they don't think that is the better career longevity choice. It's a huge risk to wander off for four years of navel gazing and beer pong. If you can book work, the best bet is to book that work before they decide to go with the dozen other just as talented people in line behind you.

 

 

James Franco also, however they're all different. They had already all made it, were famous, very rich. They had the liberty to say no to and just take time to go to school.

Struggling actors who haven't made it big, won't say no to paying jobs.

I thought of Claire Danes as an in-between exampe, after her success with MSCL and Romeo and Juliet she went to Yale for a while but dropped off iirc to concentrate on movies which didn't exactly pan out as getting her into the big leagues. Decisions irl are individual and circumstances different. 

 

However, in case of fictional Rachel and NYADA, they create their own logic - and then completely mess it up. It's like twice removed from what real life would be.

Edited February 21, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

My point was that Rachel had to be pushed and coddled to take advantage of that opportunity Mercedes offered her.  She didn't have the fortitude to  pound the pavement on her own before Mercedes set up the opportunity and even after Mercedes set it up she had to have an entire cheering section pushing her to go.  That all of that had to happen, before she auditioned, does not speak well of her having the internal strength to stick with a Broadway show.  At this point I think one bad review could easily do her in.  

 

As for Rachel deserving that job I don't think she does.  Not because Mercedes referred her, rather, because I don't think a few months later any producer or director would be willing to take a chance on a girl who bailed on a multi-million investment because TV came a calling.   I don't think she deserves another shot at NYADA either.  I am just glad when presented with the two choices she makes what I feel is the right choice.

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[fakeempress]

My point was that Rachel had to be pushed and coddled to take advantage of that opportunity Mercedes offered her.  She didn't have the fortitude to try on her own before Mercedes set up the opportunity for her and even after Mercedes set it up she had to have an entire cheering section pushing her to go.  That all of that had to happen before she auditioned does not speak well of her having the internal strength to stick with a Broadway show.  One bad review could easily to her in.  If it was one pep talk, sure , but it wasn't.  It was much more than that.  

 

As for Rachel deserving that job I don't think she does.  Not because Mercedes referred her, rather, because I don't think a few months later any producer or director would be willing to take a chance on a girl who bailed on a multi-million investment because TV came a calling.   I don't think she deserves another shot at NYADA either.  I am just glad when presented with the two choices she makes what I feel is the right choice.

Sorry, who didn't get your point (I wasn't addressing that at all if it was me)?

[camussie]

Tom87 didn't get it and I don't know why because it is well known I don't think she deserves any of the opportunities that are coming up for her.  Specifically the fact that she wasn't out doing something for herself, even before Mercedes got her that referral, means Rachel still hasn't built up the spine she will need to make it on Broadway.  This is a girl whose nearest and dearest think she needs an intervention at every turn lest she dissolve into a puddle of tears.  To me someone like that is not ready for the often brutal world of professional theater.  Hopefully her time at NYADA can toughen her up some and give her a foundation of professionalism she so desperately needs.

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[Glorfindel]

https://twitter.com/msleamichele/status/569185908148170752

 

 

Lea, Chris, Darren, and Matt I presume from todays filming

That makes sense then.  The newbies + Kitty and maybe Will/Kurt/Blaine are at McKinley High school.  This will probably be a current year flash forward i.e. few months,  Then there is the Tony party which seems to be a 5 year flash forward.  It seems that will include Jesse, Will, Kurt, Blaine (who also may be at the Tony's), Sam, Mercedes, Tina & Artie.  

In that picture Lea tweeted Kurt and Blaine both have their current hair (Kurt's hair is way up and Blaine has his gel helmet). In the flashforward pics we already got of them they both have different hair (without much gel).

 

So, unless the make-up and hair department screwed up, or unless Chris and Darren just happen to be in this picture but are not dressed for the Tony party but another scene they're filming, Rachel will win her Tony Award this school year (Spring 2015), or at least not 5 years into the future.

[jaytee1812]

So let me get this straight. In just over a year Rachel debuts in Funny Girl, breaks her contract, shoots a TV pilot, is a complete failure, hides away for a while, goes back to Ohio, restarts the glee club, walks out on that, gets another Broadway role, and wins a Tony.

What 12 year old boy is writing this FanFiction?

[camussie]

I don't think she wins her Tony in this year.  Either hair and make-up messed up or they were dressed for a different scene or, because this would be a formal party, Blaine slicks his hair down again.  Since Rachel has NYADA friends attend her Tony party she would have to be at NYADA again at some point.  That tells me that happens first and then we have a Tony win in the future.  Still wish fulfillment fanfic though.  

[tom87]

Tom87 didn't get it and I don't know why because it is well known I don't think she deserves any of the opportunities that are coming up for her.  Specifically the fact that she wasn't out doing something for herself, even before Mercedes got her that referral, means Rachel still hasn't built up the spine she will need to make it on Broadway.  This is a girl whose nearest and dearest think she needs an intervention at every turn lest she dissolve into a puddle of tears.  To me someone like that is not ready for the sometimes brutal world of the theater.  Hopefully her time at NYADA can toughen her up some and give her a foundation of professionalism she so desperately needs.

Oh believe me I know your stance.  

 

I just do not agree with all of it.  The employer thought she deserved the job by her audition.   If you said she didn't  deserve an audition I could see that.  But if she did what she needed to prove herself in that audition then imo it was deserved. 

 

Also  this bit about her not  going out and doing it herself is twisted imo.  Rachel has said she was going back and she wasn't ready YET.. That does not mean she would not have done it.   So again back to her being "wrong" for taking advantage of an opportunity doesn't sit right with me.

 

I  totally get  she is lucking into everything with help of others. I just do not think that  it means if she got the job  it was not deserved.  Now her  getting back in NYADA I do not see  how that is deserve (I'd' prefer they had her try for another school) but the role again if she won it she won it.   I would bet money others got auditions from contact as well.

Edited February 21, 2015 by tom87

[jaytee1812]

They could be pretending she had friends at NYADA the first time around.

[Glorfindel]

^Or Rachel could do both again, NYADA and a Broadway show.

Hey, it's Glee.

 

I don't think that they would have Blaine put the gelhelmet on again for a fancy party in the future. The only reason they (Blaine and Kurt) have different hair in the flashforwards is because it makes them look different from their current selfs, so we know they're in a flashforward.

[camussie]

And comparing Jessica Williams situation to Rachel's is also pretty apples and oranges. She has a career. She's not turning down the opportunity to go back to school to try and get a similar opportunity later.

 

 

It follows if I think the role she won is undeserved the audition itself is undeserved and in my opinion it is.  There is no way after he behavior just 6 months ago in Glee time any producer or director, should spend a second auditioning her no matter how much juice Mercedes has.  

 

As for Rachel not being ready yet.  That is fine but if she wasn't ready yet to put herself out there for auditions (and she obviously wasn't given the large scale intervention to get her to go) then she certainly isn't ready yet to handle the sometimes brutal world of professional theater.  I doubt the chorus of whatever show she gets is going to sing her a song because she is completely torn up to the point of inaction over a bad review.  

 

To be clear there was nothing wrong with her not being ready yet.  I get why she wouldn't have been but that means she isn't ready for all of it.  Not just an audition,  After all doing the show is going to much more of a challenge than auditioning for it.  I think that is what she realizes too and why it looks like she may choose NYADA over Broadway this time.  

 

I would bet money others got auditions ffrom contact as well.

 

 

I can't recall anyone saying people don't get auditions from connections and I certainly have not said it.  I am saying that all of the connections in the world shouldn't open a door for Rachel this soon after blowing off FG.  That is why I think the audition and the subsequent role are both undeserved as is the second bite at NYADA.

Edited February 22, 2015 by camussie

[Glorfindel]

So let me get this straight. In just over a year Rachel debuts in Funny Girl, breaks her contract, shoots a TV pilot, is a complete failure, hides away for a while, goes back to Ohio, restarts the glee club, walks out on that, gets another Broadway role, and wins a Tony.

If my speculation is correct: yes.

And it's pissing me off.

[Myrna123]

What galls is Rachel's future didn't have to be so colossally unearned. Neither did Kurt and Blaine's nauseatingly unavoidable reunion.

Even the most casual Glee viewer knew where Rachel would end up less than five minutes after they first glimpsed her on their screen whether they started watching season one or season five. It's just a shame RIB couldn't be bothered to get her there with even a modest degree of care. Instead, it's just been a parade of lazy writing, telling and telling and telling because they can't be bothered to show and looking for any and every possible opportunity to display their very obvious contempt for viewers who bothered to care about characters RIB didn't want to be bothered with.

[dizzyizzy01]

Not at all.  She is turning down a chance at one of the most coveted jobs on TV because she feels she isn't ready.  Likewise Rachel is turning down a Broadway role because she feels she isn't ready.  More than that she has proven she isn't ready.  It isn't like she is going to school in Siberia.  She is going to school, that in the Glee-verse is very connected to the Broadway community  I think the best real world comparison is the Drama Division at Julliard.  If you look at the people who have come up through the different groups the list is endless of those who finished their education and made it in theater, TV, and film.  Yes some dropped but many also saw it through.  

 

I am just glad I have one thing to applaud Rachel for in this mess of a story.  To me the NYADA re-admission, the role Rachel won based on an audition Mercedes landed her, and a Tony win merely 5 years later are all completely undeserved but at least Rachel realizes she has some seasoning to do before she should tackle Broadway again.  After all if she was so ready she would have been out there pounding the pavement for a job herself before Mercedes called in some favors for the audition.

 

LOL.  Jessica Williams isn't turning down anything.  Unless there was some report I missed, she hasn't been offered the job, and honestly, I don't think she was ever in serious contention.  I mean, I'd love to see a woman in late night, but you're basing your argument off of a tweet addressing fan rumors.

 

I still think it's an illogical premise that Rachel needs NYADA.  People go to school to get the opportunities at auditions, roles, getting agents, etc.  Unless she's turning down an ill-suited opportunity, it makes little sense.  Nobody pays 35k/yr in tuition to learn this so-called skillset Rachel supposedly needs to learn if the right opportunity to achieve your goal is already in front of you.  You put a team around you of agents/managers/lawyers to help you make smart decisions.  Hopefully family support also.  Anyway, no amount of school can save you from a complete character retcon.

 

Anyway, I don't know why I'm trying to base anything in Glee in reality so I guess it doesn't matter.

Edited February 21, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[ComfySweater]

They could be pretending she had friends at NYADA the first time around.

She had sycophants who followed her around after she won winter showcase. They'd be gone in an instant if she did half of what we'e told, but she had them for a brief time.

Edited February 21, 2015 by ComfySweater

[jaytee1812]

If my speculation is correct: yes.

And it's pissing me off.

It's ridiculous even without the Tony win.

[camussie]

I still think it's an illogical premise that Rachel needs NYADA.

 

 

How is it illogical?  Carmen predicted she wouldn't have the foundation she needed to make a career out of Broadway and lo and behold a month into it she bailed.  You may not like it but in canon that is what Rachel did.  She has the talent but she certainly proved she didn't have the needed skills

 

You put a team around you of agents/managers/lawyers to help you make smart decisions.

 

 

And yet Rachel wasn't professionally astute enough to do this.  All the more reason she needs attend a school that has a rich connection to Broadway and all of the BTS people who support its performers.  She can learn that a team like this is needed and build up the right team for her.  

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

How is it illogical?  Carmen predicted she wouldn't have the foundation she needed to make a career out of Broadway and lo and behold a month into it she bailed.  You may not like it but in canon that is what Rachel did.  She has the talent but she certainly proved she didn't have the needed skills

 

 

And yet Rachel wasn't professionally astute enough to do this.  All the more reason she attend a school that has a rich connection to Broadway and all of the BTS people who support its performers.  

Just because the shows tells you it happened, doesn't make it not illogical.  99% of the show is completely illogical.  

 

By the way, getting a BFA or MFA doesn't suddenly teach someone how not to get bored after 1 month of performing on Broadway.  It can't overcome writer inconsistencies.  There's no salvo for overcoming bad writing and sudden re-characterizations!  Just saying!

[ComfySweater]

And yet Rachel wasn't professionally astute enough to do this.  All the more reason she needs attend a school that has a rich connection to Broadway and all of the BTS people who support its performers.  She can learn that a team like this is needed and build up the right team for her.  

Rachel being too stupid to live (kind of like Karen in Smash) does not mean this is a decent portrayal of somebody trying to make it on Broadway. Most schools don't teach useful how to work life lessons. They have crazy method actors who teach you to dance like nobody is watching. You listen to your fucking agent/manager/publicist and screw that acting teacher who told you to feel the air because that air can't book anything. 

[camussie]

It won't magically teach someone not to become bored but the classes will teach them how to keep a performance fresh.  As for Rachel getting bored in the first place agree that was out of character for her but my point is, as out of character for her as it was, it is now canon.  i am just glad they are addressing that canon by seeming to have her go to NYADA again versus blowing off an education because she thinks she doesn't need it.  

 

Most schools don't teach useful how to work life lessons.

 

 

No but a place like NYADA has been portrayed in Glee canon would give Rachel access to a network of seasoned Broadway professionals who could mentor her in how to build a long career including putting together a good team and learning to listen to them.  

 

My impression is many don't like that Rachel got bored by Broadway after a month and just want it to be forgotten completely by giving Rachel a do over as if it never happened.  While I think Glee is already doing this by giving her an audition this quickly, the one thing they are tempering it with is Rachel apparently revisiting Carmen's parting words and determining she was right about Rachel needing the training NYADA can offer.  I for one am glad they are tempering it like that because it is the one thing that I like in this otherwise wish fulfillment fanfic story.

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[Myrna123]

Rachel being too stupid to live (kind of like Karen in Smash) does not mean this is a decent portrayal of somebody trying to make it on Broadway. Most schools don't teach useful how to work life lessons. They have crazy method actors who teach you to dance like nobody is watching. You listen to your fucking agent/manager/publicist and screw that acting teacher who told you to feel the air because that air can't book anything.

But that has never even for a single beat been how Glee has portrayed a professional life in the arts. Why would they in this one final moment of Rachel's journey all of a sudden introduce the idea of performing as a career loaded with advisors and assistance and a management team? Nothing you're saying is inaccurate but it has as much relevance to Glee as a recipe for homemade pie crust. Edited February 21, 2015 by Myrna123

[dizzyizzy01]

It won't magically teach someone not to become bored but the classes will teach them how to keep a performance fresh.  As for Rachel getting bored in the first place agree that was out of character for her but my point is, as out of character for her as it was, it is now canon.  i am just glad they are addressing that canon by seeming to have her go to NYADA again versus blowing off an education because she thinks she doesn't need it.  

 

 

No but a place like NYADA has been portrayed in Glee canon would give Rachel access to a network of seasoned Broadway professionals who could mentor her in how to build a long career including putting together a good team and learning to listen to them.  

Again, logic in Glee canon is still absolutely bonkers in reality.  

 

It's like saying Finn's stuck in Lima storyline made total sense just because the show said it did.  Or that Sam can totally be a health teacher without a college degree because Glee canon says so!  It's still an awful portrayal of how stuff actually works, and ultimately completely illogical.

[camussie]

Well as I said I am not one who needs Glee to be completely in line with reality as long as it follows its own internal logic and like it or not Rachel needing the training NYADA can offer is internally consistent with the story we have had since Rachel blew off FG.  Of course her blowing off FG was not consistent with her character but,unfortunately, what is done is done so I appreciate them not handwaving it away completely.

 

As for Sam being a health teacher without a degree I would argue that is against Glee's internal logic.  After all when Finn wanted to coach Glee club he was only allowed to do so because it was an after school activity and he didn't teach any classes. And when he finally decided he wanted to do that as a career it was made clear he needed to go to college for it.  With Sam they are blowing off that construct completely.  

 

As for Finn being in Lima I would have been fine with that if they simply followed the story they set out for him from day 1 - that he wanted to prove himself away from Lima.  Had they given him something like Sam - where he went to NY or really anywhere but Lima, found some degree of success, then decided even with that success Lima was where he wanted to live I could have accepted that story.  As a Finn/Rachel shipper I would have been disappointed but as a Finn fan I would have been fine with it because it would have been faithful to the story they set out for him at the beginning.  

 

As i said, for me, it boils down to a story being internally consistent, not realistic.  Hell I watch every bit of the Ice Princess story on GH (where the Cassadines) were freezing Port Charles and loved it.  You know why?  Because as outrageous as the premise was the story went from A to B to C and the characterizations didn't change on a dime to suit whatever outrageous plot point they wanted to hit that day,  

Edited February 21, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

Again, I think most if not everyone understood what the story Glee is trying to tell is.  I and I think some others just believe it's not a good story to tell makes little sense even if it can plausibly happen in the Glee world.  Then start bringing in real-life examples like Emma Watson and Jessica Williams that don't even really relate, and you further confuse the discussion.

 

Also, to say consistent storytelling existed in Rachel's storyline is pretty absurd.  The girl went 5.5 seasons all about Broadway and NY.  Then because they wanted to reboot Lima and do a stupid television pilot she suddenly wants to abandon it all for LA?  Yes, that's some internal consistency within Glee.  Sure.

Edited February 21, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[ComfySweater]

But that has never even for a single beat been how Glee has portrayed a professional life in the arts. Why would they in this one final moment of Rachel's journey all of a sudden introduce the idea of performing as a career loaded with advisors and assistance and a management team? Nothing you're saying is inaccurate but it has as much relevance to Glee as a recipe for homemade pie crust.

Wildly off topic, the best pie crust I ever found was this one. Grandmother approved. I will one day inherit the cookbook that came from.

[KatWay]

As always with Glee, the whole storyline could have played out much (much, much, much) better, but I'd say the choice of education over the next gig makes more sense with Rachel's journey as they've portrayed it. Ultimately, she'll benefit more from learning how to function within the upcoming and existing theater community than from being thrust right back into the limelight after everything that has gone down.

 

Sure, realistically, she should have neither of these options and realistically, she'd choose a paying gig over student loans, but it's Rachel and she's capital S Special, so she has those options, and she has unlimited funds so NYADA 2.0. is going to feel slightly more earned than another starring role on BW regarding the events of S5.

Edited February 21, 2015 by KatWay

[camussie]

I and I think some others just believe it's not a good story to tell makes little sense even if it can plausibly happen in the Glee world.  Then start bringing in real-life examples like Emma Watson and Jessica Williams that don't even really relate, and you further confuse the discussion.

 

 

I fail to see how it is confusing to say that despite the claims this would never and has never happened in the real world, not everyone blows off an arts education or more experience to jump at a professional opportunity they may not be ready for.  It both has happened in the real world and it is consistent with the Glee-verse.  Surprisingly enough Carmen's speech to Rachel when she quit the way she did foreshadowed everything that happened so it makes sense in the Glee-verse they are closing that loop and bonus it has happened in the real world as well.  

 

Let me ask this what would be a good way to tell the story?  Rachel taking the role and not revisiting her education?  What makes you think she is any more prepared for the long haul this time around?  Nothing in her current narrative tells me she is ready for the rigors of Broadway

• She had to be cajoled, to put it mildly, to audition after Mercedes set it up for her
• She obviously still isn't all that good with team work considering her and Kurt haven't bothered to get to know their students
• Her friends are so concerned she will fall apart at moving they blow use the glee club lesson of the week to cheer her up and she let instead of saying no we need to focus on sectionals.  I am an adult and can handle this

 

I wish they had spent some time over these last few weeks showing us a Rachel gaining confidence as steeling her spine for another run at Broadway but they haven't.  That is why i think some formal education that will require teamwork, rigorous training, and learning how to deal with criticism will be exactly what she needs

 

Also, to say consistent storytelling existed in Rachel's storyline is pretty absurd.  The girl went 5.5 seasons all about Broadway and NY.  Then because they wanted to reboot Lima and do a stupid television pilot she suddenly wants to abandon it all for LA?  Yes, that's some internal consistency within Glee.  Sure.

 

 

As a review this is exactly what I posted.

 

Well as I said I am not one who needs Glee to be completely in line with reality as long as it follows its own internal logic and like it or not Rachel needing the training NYADA can offer is internally consistent with the story we have had since Rachel blew off FG

 

 

So not absurd at all.  I fully recognize her blowing off FG was not consistent but as I pointed it is done so now they should address it and it appears they are.  So exactly sure.  

Edited February 22, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

Yea, for the story they want to tell it's fine.

 

People were just suddenly pulling in real-life examples of Franco, Watson, Williams, etc. as if it's the same thing and somehow supports the bizarre storylines Glee does.  It's not.

[camussie]

The point of the real life examples is people said it NEVER happened that someone chooses an education or more experience over a role in the performing arts world and that simply, like most absolutes, is not true.  It does and has happened in real life despite the claims here.  And beyond that like you said it actually makes sense in the Glee-verse which is a bonus considering so much of the show doesn't.  

[dizzyizzy01]

I fail to see how it is confusing to say that despite the claims this would never and has never happened in the real world, not everyone blows off an arts education or more experience to jump at a professional opportunity they may not be ready for.  It both has happened in the real world and it is consistent with the Glee-verse.  Surprisingly enough Carmen's speech to Rachel when she quit the way she did foreshadowed everything that happened so it makes sense in the Glee-verse they are closing that loop and bonus it has happened in the real world as well.  

 

Let me ask this what would be a good way to tell the story?  Rachel taking the role and not revisiting her education?  What makes you think she is any more prepared for the long haul this time around?  Nothing in her current narrative tells me she is ready for the rigors of Broadway

 

Never of course is always a hyperbole.   That's why the saying never say never exists.  

 

The examples that were brought up just don't apply at all.  How do you compare a child actor that was in one of the biggest movie franchises in history that decided to go to school to study something completely unrelated to acting or an established writer/actor/comedian that is saying she's not ready for a job she isn't even offered to a aspiring performer being presented with a legitimate professional opportunity and instead going back to school for a BFA.  

 

I just never would have presented this decision in the first place.  She should have been going back to NY to work and audition.  I mean if it were up to me, they wouldn't have squandered 5 prior seasons of characterization to suddenly decide she's no longer interested in Broadway after a month.  

[KatWay]

I don't know if any of them were offered roles at the time (but they might have been), but these actors went to university before they made it big to study acting/drama/english lit which has drama classes etc.: Ian McKellen, James MacAvoy, Rosamund Pike, David Oyelowo, Meryl Streep.

 

And those are just a few examples. I'm sure if I took the time to google, there'd be lots more. It's hardly unprecedented or inherently "stupid" to pursue an education instead of taking any role offered right away. Not a lot about Rachel's storyline makes sense, but this is hardly the big problem with it.

Edited February 21, 2015 by KatWay

[dizzyizzy01]

The point of the real life examples is people said it NEVER happened that someone chooses an education or more experience over a role in the performing arts world and that simply, like most absolutes, is not true.  It does and has happened in real life despite the claims here.  And beyond that like you said it actually makes sense in the Glee-verse which is a bonus considering so much of the show doesn't.  

But I said even if it makes sense in the glee-verse, I still said it's a stupid storyline.  Sense in the glee-verse is still pretty much nonsense the majority of the time.

 

BTW, when did I even say NEVER.  I said it was illogical and made little sense, but I'm pretty sure I never actually said it never happens.  So maybe you're putting words in my mouth?

Edited February 21, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[morgankobi]

I am *almost* starting to miss the Samchel!is!endgame talk at this point.

 

Thanks for the link, ComfySweater!

[dizzyizzy01]

I don't know if any of them were offered roles at the time (but they might have been), but these actors went to university before they made it big to study acting/drama/english lit which has drama classes etc.: Ian McKellen, James MacAvoy, Rosamund Pike, David Oyelowo, Meryl Streep.

 

And those are just a few examples. I'm sure if I took the time to google, there'd be lots more. It's hardly unprecedented or inherently "stupid" to pursue an education instead of taking any role offered right away. Not a lot about Rachel's storyline makes sense, but this is hardly the big problem with it.

It's kind of interesting that most of those actors are not from the US.  Just a curious observation.  A lot of people do pursue degrees, but again, it's hard to compare the unknown (e.g., they really had the opportunity to choose between a legitimate professional opportunity vs. pursuing a degree with thousands of dollars of debt that honestly doesn't really translate to better job opportunities).  Meryl is also kind of an interesting case in that she didn't start to seriously pursue acting until she was already well into college.

[Hana Chan]

NYADA has never been portrayed as wandering off the Broadway reservation.  If anything it has been portrayed as being very entrenched in the Broadway community.  A place where directors and producers routinely scout for talent.  A place where students can build up a professional network,  

 

Rachel returning to NYADA would be improbable (at best) in the real world, but for those of us who want to see her finally start growing up and stop thinking that her shit doesn't stink, this is a far preferable option than having her waltz into another Broadway role right off the bat. Because going to NYADA will really force her to grow, whether she likes it or not. She left NYADA with a plum professional job opportunity and thinking that she was above what NYADA could offer.

 

At best, she's returning an abject failure. The faculty and student body is going to be very aware of how she threw away her big opportunity and whatever privileged status she enjoyed when she left, she's now going to be at the bottom of the heap. There won't be any special treatment or sycophants hoping to ride her coat tails. She's going to be a laughing stock and Kurt will likely be her only supporter there. But if he can tough it out, she can earn her way back. She can prove that she can be a team player and that she can learn. She can earn respect and start healing the battering that her professional reputation took. That would make her eventual return to Broadway and Tony award at least somewhat defensible because it will at least have some foundation of having been worked for and earned. Otherwise, we're back to Special Snowflake who gets things because the writers are too half asses to give a fuck.

[Higgs]

"Performance Studies" at Tisch (NYU): http://performance.tisch.nyu.edu/page/courses.html

Rachel needs the above kind of practical education (but not as a full-time student), some therapy, and a horse (pony?) to get back on ASAP, by taking some role in a professional production. (Might there be a nightclub or ten which would give a gig to the critically-acclaimed star of a Broadway FG?)

I hate this flashforward. 6FU had to do it to show the deaths of its main characters, which was in keeping with their theme. Glee's theme is hopes, dreams, and life enhancement through the arts, not stardom. ("Just a city boy, born and raised in South Detroit" is all I needed to know about what would happen to Rachel and ND, as it was designed to do in case the show died with the pilot.)

And Jesse in the wings? There had better be some hella prior conversation between him and Rachel to get me to give her hand in marriage to that onetime fatuous twit. (Sorry Sam, not even if last-man-on-Earth.) This would be one aspect in which they emulate 6FU, where Claire's former boyfriend, and future husband, doesn't show up again until many years later, when he literally walks into her mother's funeral.

[caracas1914]

No news of Amber filming today?

[jaytee1812]

No news of Amber filming today?

Yeah she's there. They couldn't have Rachel Berry's biggest day without her biggest cheerleader!

[fakeempress]

I don't know if any of them were offered roles at the time (but they might have been), but these actors went to university before they made it big to study acting/drama/english lit which has drama classes etc.: Ian McKellen, James MacAvoy, Rosamund Pike, David Oyelowo, Meryl Streep.

 

And those are just a few examples. I'm sure if I took the time to google, there'd be lots more. It's hardly unprecedented or inherently "stupid" to pursue an education instead of taking any role offered right away. Not a lot about Rachel's storyline makes sense, but this is hardly the big problem with it.

The British tradition seems different, the academies are more valued as a stepping stone to a career. Probably because of their still very strong stage theatre scene that requires some formal training (this seems also a European tradition overall).

 

OT but there is a current debate in the UK about how recently successful British actors came from posh schools and families who could afford the education. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

She was there.  Here is an instagram from Kevin,  Seems like it was NND including Kitty and Figgins which would fit with a McKinley high scene.  Then the originals plus Chord & Blaine and Will.  Some of those folks may be in the McKinley high scenes too.

 

So maybe you're putting words in my mouth?

 

 

Nope.

 

ComfySweater posted "Nobody goes to acting school over taking a paying gig."

 

I posted some examples where people did exactly that and then you jumped in and said my examples were not relevant.  

 

Then you posted "Nobody pays 35k/yr in tuition to learn this so-called skillset Rachel supposedly needs to learn if the right opportunity to achieve your goal is already in front of you.

Edited February 22, 2015 by camussie

[shantown]

I am *almost* starting to miss the Samchel!is!endgame talk at this point.

 

Thanks for the link, ComfySweater!

Haha, whatever happened to that person?

 

This is the last day of filming, correct? They certainly are cramming a lot of people into the last day.