jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I think Chord's voice is on the same level as Darren's. He's not amazing, but his voice is pleasant enough. On the Tina/Mike thing, Artie is the last person who should be giving relationship advice, but I don't think this is about race. He's probably just concerned Tina is rushing things, and he's right if so. It's not about race, I just meant it as another example of the hero white boy, lecturing a women. It just feels worse when it a women of colour, also Tina spent season 5 pretty much being patronised by Artie, Sam and Blaine. I can think of three performances off the top of my head that were them patronising Tina. They have no subtlety. It's the last mediocre white boy they have for Rachel. Who cares if he hates NYC and being with him would mean she has to give up all her dreams. She's a girl. They expect that sacrifice. Ugh. Worst possible ending. Much as it would be an awful rehash of season 3's awful ending I'd much prefer to see Sam tell Rachel to peruse her dreams even if it means leaving him. Link to comment
ComfySweater January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I think that's overstating things. Not all females on this show sacrifice their careers for men. Mercedes and Emma didn't, and I doubt Rachel will either. Mercedes is, as best I can tell, playing the sassy black woman who don't need a man and every plot Emma has gotten since marriage has been about her ability to produce a child. I'm not sure those are good examples of anything. 3 Link to comment
Sara2009 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Mercedes is, as best I can tell, playing the sassy black woman who don't need a man and every plot Emma has gotten since marriage has been about her ability to produce a child. I'm not sure those are good examples of anything. Emma has been in 2 episodes since her marriage, and only one of them was about producing a child. I don't find that to be outrageous. Link to comment
Advance35 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 They have no subtlety. It's the last mediocre white boy they have for Rachel. Who cares if he hates NYC and being with him would mean she has to give up all her dreams. She's a girl. They expect that sacrifice. Well they gave in interview in Season 3 that the reason Rachel lost her virginity was because Finn had been through a lot and he "deserved it". HE deserved HER virginity because of everything he was going through. Comments like that are why I've never really bought into the "Rachel is the writers pet". They'll let her sing but in terms of storylines and character development, they will shank her like they do other characters on canvas. I am I kind of surprised at the number of Samchel people I have seen on tumblr, and other forums. Likewise. I like them together just because of Chord's muscle tone, but there isn't a couple on canvas that isn't shallow and tepid IMO. All of Sam's relationships have been either trite or boring IMO, Rachel's had other potentially entertaining romantic interest but the writers didn't explore them because Finn "deserved" her. So Sam/Rachel is a step-up in my view. Link to comment
fakeempress January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I think Chord's voice is on the same level as Darren's. He's not amazing, but his voice is pleasant enough. I don't find anything interesting about Chord's voice, he's the epitome of bland to me. While I do like Darren's lower register, he has an interesting timbre, and can bring energy (not always a good thing, depending on the song, but still something more than Chord imo). Link to comment
Sara2009 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) Anyway, my point about Emma was that she never sacrificed her career for a man. The fact that she's a wife and mother doesn't change that. JMO Edited January 30, 2015 by Sara2009 Link to comment
fakeempress January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) They have no subtlety. It's the last mediocre white boy they have for Rachel. Who cares if he hates NYC and being with him would mean she has to give up all her dreams. She's a girl. They expect that sacrifice. What I liked about the other love interests of Rachel's is that they had an edge to them -even Finn - and bring the energy comparable to Rachel's. I'm speaking of Puck (for the minute it was on), Jesse, Brody. Sam is amorphous, he's just there ready to fall "in love" with the next available girl, and then fall out of love when it doesn't work out. Edited January 30, 2015 by fakeempress 2 Link to comment
camussie January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) And in my view Sam is a step down mainly because they are selling him as Finn 2.0 instead of his own character. For example, this week, when he is recruiting Spencer he supposedly references how Finn started out being the link between glee club and football including recruiting Sam and now it is Sam's turn. If Sam is such a great character they should sell him on his own merits instead of using Finn's ghost/memory to do it. I will never like Sam/Rachel but I wouldn't loathe them so if they would just leave Finn out of the Sam hard sell. They were right to back off of it in season 2 and they were stupid to come back to it last season in "City of Angels" where they co-opted the Will/Finn friendship/mentorship to drop a thousand anvils that Sam is the new Finn and they are stupid to come back to it again this season. As far as careers I am 50/50 on whether Rachel goes back to Broadway. I think it is entirely possible she will and either she and Sam break-up in a rehash of the end of S3 or, if RM is feeling really petty, he will give Sam/Rachel the ending many Finn/Rachel fans always wanted for them - for Sam to find his way to NY. I could totally seeing him do this because of how widely rejected his planned ending was had Cory not passed. I think he expected people to say "I'm home" would have been a brilliant and touching way to end the series and instead people were like that is what you had planned? How stupid. As far as Mercedes, sure she gets the career but the "sassy black woman who don't need no man" trope (as evidenced by her soloing on All about the Bass while other characters duet with their love interests) is tired, predictable, and offensive. Edited January 30, 2015 by camussie 1 Link to comment
fakeempress January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) They were selling Sam as Finn even before they needed a "new FInn" for Rachel specifically (how they rolled back on Finn in the beginning of Season 2 to benefit Sam). I wonder what would've been Sam's story if Finn/Cory hadn't passed, because I don't think Rachel/Sam would've happened if they still had Finn. Edited January 30, 2015 by fakeempress Link to comment
ComfySweater January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 What I liked about the other love interests of Rachel's is that they had an edge to them -even Finn - and bring the energy comparable to Rachel's. I'm speaking of Puck (for the minute it was on), Jesse, Brody. Sam is amorphous, he's just there ready to fall "in love" with the next available girl, and then fall out of love when it doesn't work out. Sam is the man you date or crush on (no homo!) when the one you want isn't available. I'd feel bad for him if he wasn't so lame. I just hope Rachel escapes him as her endgame. They clearly don't work in any fashion anybody paying attention would see, but I'm not so sure the writers of this mess are paying attention. This could go terribly wrong. Link to comment
camussie January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) They did when they first brought him in in season 2 (and don't even get me started on how everything that happened in "Theatricality" was erased to benefit Sam) but they backed off of it in the second half of that season only to come back with the really hard sell last season, probably in anticipation of doing Sam/Rachel eventually. I still think that is a mistake for all of the characters involved. For Finn because it says he is completely replaceable. For Rachel because is she really moving forward if she is dating a character that is being sold as Finn 2.0 and for Sam (although I don't give a hoot in Hades about him) because it calls into question does Rachel like him for him or because he is the next best thing to having Finn. As for what Sam would be doing had Finn not passed - I think we would be having a lot of Blam! Let me add that Blam! became the leads of McKinley in the second half of S4 while Finn was relegated to the white board but even then I didn't feel like they were selling Sam as a Finn replacement. If they were doing that with anyone it was Blaine which is what made Will's declaration in COA that Sam was Finn's successor all the more WTF. This is not to say Matthew wasn't good in those scenes, because he was, but the concept those scenes tried to sell was not really backed up by what we had seen since early season 4- that Blaine had, for all intents and purposes, become both Finn's and Rachel's successor in New Directions. Edited January 30, 2015 by camussie Link to comment
Pink ranger January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 The thing about that original ending is that how do we know that Rachel hadn't been offered an amazing role in a pre-Broadway out of town try out in Chicago? The outrage was that everybody assumed that she was completely throwing away her career ambitions and setting her sights on being bare foot and pregnant in Lima. I think that had the originally planned two seasons had played out then the storyline might have added nuances that made the storyline a lot better than how Ryan described it. Maybe by the end of Season Six Finn was only a couple of months off getting his associates degree from Lima university and then he agreed to transfer to a New York university for further study. Link to comment
ComfySweater January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 As for what Sam would be doing had Finn not passed - I think we would be having a lot of Blam! That might be the best thing we avoided due to a tragic event. What even were they trying to do there? They made a gay/straight friendship that seemed nice enough if you accept total personality changes needed to make it happen, but then they were unable to avoid the gay guy desperately wanting to do the straight guy in awkward ways complete with song. So ... gay and straight guys can't be friends without the gay guy wanting to screw the straight guy? Um... what was that? Link to comment
camussie January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) No. RM's planned original ending happened several years later - when Finn was already a teacher and after Rachel had a few plays/musicals and a movie or two under her belt. My guess is what Rachel still would have done FG in season 5 (since that was set up in season 4 before Cory passed) and still would have tried other opportunities after that (for most of S6) but instead of returning back to Lima a failure she would have had a string of successes. Either way it was not a good ending and I say this as a Finn/Rachel fan. I abhor slapped together endings. It is cheap fan service when instead writers should serve fans by crafting journeys that are engaging and rootable for both the individual characters involved and the couple. Unfortunately slapped together endings have became the de rigueur ever since TV show runners bought into the "Moonlighting Curse" lock, stock and barrel. That is why I appreciate show that don't do that all the more (see Jim/Pam on "The Office"). Edited January 30, 2015 by camussie 1 Link to comment
fakeempress January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) The thing about that original ending is that how do we know that Rachel hadn't been offered an amazing role in a pre-Broadway out of town try out in Chicago? The original ending, at least according to Ryan - was about Rachel being "home" or coming back "home", doesn't seem to matter where she was coming home from. It was about Finn, imo. Edited January 30, 2015 by fakeempress Link to comment
ComfySweater January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 The original ending, at least according to Ryan - was about Rachel being "home" or coming back "home", doesn't seem to matter where she was coming home from. It was about Finn, imo. Which is exactly like Emma once she accepted her story was about marrying a man who taught show choir. Emma was hardly seen except for her ability to produce babies. Her career stopped being shown or cared about. All she ever did was serve his plot. Rachel was grabbing for that same dubious brass ring in the end, and still might. Sam is the lesser 2.0 option, but they're selling it hard. Link to comment
Pink ranger January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 My point was that I don't think that Ryan would have written Rachel as giving up her career ambitions for Finn. There would have been some form of opportunity that she was pursuing while being with her " endgame". Looking at the many very successful actors who keep an arms length away from the hollywood scene while still reaping its benefits. Jeff Daniels for example who lives in Michigan and has successfully maintained a 36 year marriage while also gaining 4 golden globes acting nominations. Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Mercedes is, as best I can tell, playing the sassy black woman who don't need a man and every plot Emma has gotten since marriage has been about her ability to produce a child. I'm not sure those are good examples of anything. Ugh! I'm actually starting to wish they'd left Mercedes with Shane in season 3. Six seasons and she's never had a decent boyfriend. Unless you count the human form of Chlamydia with decent abs. Which is exactly like Emma once she accepted her story was about marrying a man who taught show choir. Emma was hardly seen except for her ability to produce babies. Her career stopped being shown or cared about. All she ever did was serve his plot. Rachel was grabbing for that same dubious brass ring in the end, and still might. Sam is the lesser 2.0 option, but they're selling it hard. I think they'll maybe play it as Rachel deciding teaching is for her and staying in Lima with Sam, but not for Sam. But still, ugh. If they get Tike back together all the women bar Mercedes end up with someone. If they don't the only women of colour to end up in a relationship does so because she's with a white woman. Link to comment
fakeempress January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 My point was that I don't think that Ryan would have written Rachel as giving up her career ambitions for Finn. There would have been some form of opportunity that she was pursuing while being with her " endgame" .Oh I got that was what you were saying. I'm just not sure that Ryan wouldn't have made it all about the tru wuv to the disservice of both characters, and write Rachel as making a choice there that isn't tied to open opportunities. Link to comment
indeed January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Jeff Daniels for example who lives in Michigan and has successfully maintained a 36 year marriage while also gaining 4 golden globes acting nominations.I think his Emmy win is slightly more impressive (and yes other nominations for stuff over many years)...but that isn't the point you're making. Just giving him a shout-out!Anyway, I think Sam and Spencer have more chemistry. And the look that would be on Blaine's face?? Priceless. LOL 2 Link to comment
Sara2009 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Which is exactly like Emma once she accepted her story was about marrying a man who taught show choir. Emma was hardly seen except for her ability to produce babies. Her career stopped being shown or cared about. All she ever did was serve his plot. Rachel was grabbing for that same dubious brass ring in the end, and still might. Sam is the lesser 2.0 option, but they're selling it hard. It's true that Emma has mostly been shown as Will's love interest throughout the series, BUT the writers have also hammered home how much she enjoys working at McKinley as the guidance counselor. This was particularly evident in season 4.She's never been shown to want another career, so IMO she's not settling for anything.To me that's completely different from the proposed Lima ending for Finn/Rachel. Link to comment
Cranberry January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Some of this conversation is veering away from spoilers again. I just went through and checked 10+ posts and was planning to move them, but some of them are tied up in the spoiler discussion and moving them would have broken two conversations, so I didn't. However, I'd ask that you continue any non-spoiler discussion in the proper threads. 1 Link to comment
Sara2009 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 To get back on topic, when do y'all think Will leaves VA( if he does)? From spoilers it seems he spends an awful lot of time at McKinley in 6x10 and 6x11. Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 To get back on topic, when do y'all think Will leaves VA( if he does)? From spoilers it seems he spends an awful lot of time at McKinley in 6x10 and 6x11. If Rachel leaves he goes back to New Directions, I think they might have Rachel stay and become a teacher and I think Will becomes Principal. Link to comment
Sara2009 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I don't think Will would be happy not coaching a glee club. I could see him and Rachel co- directing when Kurt returns to NY, though. Link to comment
Hookian January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 They have no subtlety. It's the last mediocre white boy they have for Rachel. Who cares if he hates NYC and being with him would mean she has to give up all her dreams. She's a girl. They expect that sacrifice. Who the heck made the suggestion that she has to give up her dreams to be with Sam? It's called he can go with her and they don't have to live in the city. You do know people live outside of NYC in the suburban area as well right? Plus there's always the very real possibility that Beiste will help him get a head coaching position somewhere in New York. Beiste is a National winning football coach, Glee could always twist it so that he can have connections that can make things very easy for Sam. Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Who the heck made the suggestion that she has to give up her dreams to be with Sam? It's called he can go with her and they don't have to live in the city. You do know people live outside of NYC in the suburban area as well right? Plus there's always the very real possibility that Beiste will help him get a head coaching position somewhere in New York. Beiste is a National winning football coach, Glee could always twist it so that he can have connections that can make things very easy for Sam. Sam left New York, why would he go back. How on earth would a young couple on nothing be able to live in the suburbs? As for Sam getting a head coaching position. It's ridiculous that someone who hasn't been on his schools football team since he was a sophomore would get an assistants position, but I'll buy Bieste giving him a break. But the worst school on earth wouldn't hire Sam. Link to comment
Hookian January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) And in my view Sam is a step down mainly because they are selling him as Finn 2.0 instead of his own character. For example, this week, when he is recruiting Spencer he supposedly references how Finn started out being the link between glee club and football including recruiting Sam and now it is Sam's turn. If Sam is such a great character they should sell him on his own merits instead of using Finn's ghost/memory to do it. I will never like Sam/Rachel but I wouldn't loathe them so if they would just leave Finn out of the Sam hard sell. They were right to back off of it in season 2 and they were stupid to come back to it last season in "City of Angels" where they co-opted the Will/Finn friendship/mentorship to drop a thousand anvils that Sam is the new Finn and they are stupid to come back to it again this season. As far as careers I am 50/50 on whether Rachel goes back to Broadway. I think it is entirely possible she will and either she and Sam break-up in a rehash of the end of S3 or, if RM is feeling really petty, he will give Sam/Rachel the ending many Finn/Rachel fans always wanted for them - for Sam to find his way to NY. I could totally seeing him do this because of how widely rejected his planned ending was had Cory not passed. I think he expected people to say "I'm home" would have been a brilliant and touching way to end the series and instead people were like that is what you had planned? How stupid. As far as Mercedes, sure she gets the career but the "sassy black woman who don't need no man" trope (as evidenced by her soloing on All about the Bass while other characters duet with their love interests) is tired, predictable, and offensive. ...I don't see this Sam/Finn thing but sure whatever, anyways there is a third possibility you know. They go long distance off screen and leave it ambiguous as well, unless they do a FF which won't be ambiguous. Though I do think Sam will find his way to New York thanks to help from Beiste. It's definitely in Beiste's character to help others and make their dreams come true. So I can easily see him giving Sam help landing a head coaching position in New York so he can be with Rachel. Sam left New York, why would he go back. How on earth would a young couple on nothing be able to live in the suburbs? As for Sam getting a head coaching position. It's ridiculous that someone who hasn't been on his schools football team since he was a sophomore would get an assistants position, but I'll buy Bieste giving him a break. But the worst school on earth wouldn't hire Sam. He hated the city, you don't have to live in the city to live in New York. Plus Sam is the kind of guy that follows his heart so I do see him going w/ Rachel in the end. However he's not going just for Rachel because I think Beiste will help him land a head coaching job in New York. Screw logic it's Glee. Don't even worry how a young couple can afford living in the suburbs? How could 3 teens afford what is likely a very very expensive loft on a waitressing job? Yeah logic doesn't exist on Glee. Edited January 30, 2015 by Hookian Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 ...I How could 3 teens afford what is likely a very very expensive loft on a waitressing job? Yeah logic doesn't exist on Glee. Mummies and Daddies. Kurt, Rachel and Santana all had well off parents paying at least in part for their New York life. We know Rachel's Dads aren't as well off as they were and Sam's folks sure can't help. Honestly Sam and Rachel in New York together looks like she still wants Finn but will accept Finn-lite (Finn2.0 makes him sound like a better version). Him being a head football coach has given me my best laugh of the day. Link to comment
tom87 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 The writers never figured out that Finn could go to school to be a teacher in NY and be with Rachel why would they all of a sudden figure that out now with Sam? No they set it up for Sam to be the new Finn country boy who doesn't like the big city. If any of the character ends without an significant other I think it will be Rachel tbh. Link to comment
camussie January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) It goes back to if they were indeed thinking of doing Rachel/Sam this season and making them some sort of endgame, ambiguous or not, then why in the world would they write Sam finding success in NYC and leaving anyway because he doesn't like it? That was a very clear plot point last season and it makes buying Rachel/Sam as an endgame all the more difficult if you want Rachel to give Broadway another go as I do. Edited January 30, 2015 by camussie Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 The writers never figured out that Finn could go to school to be a teacher in NY and be with Rachel why would they all of a sudden figure that out now with Sam? No they set it up for Sam to be the new Finn country boy who doesn't like the big city. If any of the character ends without an significant other I think it will be Rachel tbh. Because it the end of the show. Keep Finn in Lima was both to anchor the Lima side and keep the will they/won't they going with Rachel. I'd actually like to see Rachel end without a significant other, but with a sign that she's ready to date again, and not some Finn substitute. Link to comment
Hookian January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) The writers never figured out that Finn could go to school to be a teacher in NY and be with Rachel why would they all of a sudden figure that out now with Sam? No they set it up for Sam to be the new Finn country boy who doesn't like the big city. If any of the character ends without an significant other I think it will be Rachel tbh. Actually the writers did something with Sam that they didn't do with Finn. They did not lock him in Lima Ohio. They locked Finn there because he took passion in the Glee Club at Mckinley. With Sam they showed us his passion is to be a head football coach. That could be done anywhere. He won't be the head coach at Mckinley because that job belongs to Sheldon, so the question is where is he going to be a head coach at? Sheldon is likely going to help him secure a job as a head coach somewhere so... seems clear to me it would be in New York. I disagree. If any character is ending up single it's gonna be Mercedes and likely Artie as well. Two regulars from the cast end up single but they have the most success as a compromise. They focus on their careers, and it pays off for them. It goes back to if they were indeed thinking of doing Rachel/Sam this season and making them some sort of endgame, ambiguous or not, then why in the world would they write Sam finding success in NYC and leaving anyway because he doesn't like it? That was a very clear plot point last season and it makes buying Rachel/Sam as an endgame all the more difficult if you want Rachel to give Broadway another go as I do. If Sam finds his passion is coaching football and Beiste finds him a position in New York you honestly don't think he would take it? He can do what he loves to do and be with Rachel. There is also always the chance that they end it ambiguous and just choose to date off screen long distance. Though I don't see that happening. Mummies and Daddies. Kurt, Rachel and Santana all had well off parents paying at least in part for their New York life. We know Rachel's Dads aren't as well off as they were and Sam's folks sure can't help. Honestly Sam and Rachel in New York together looks like she still wants Finn but will accept Finn-lite (Finn2.0 makes him sound like a better version). Him being a head football coach has given me my best laugh of the day. Klaine will likely be in New York as well, married. If Rachel leaves he goes back to New Directions, I think they might have Rachel stay and become a teacher and I think Will becomes Principal. I do see Will becoming the principal at the end of the series. Matt and the writers have wanted this endgame for Will for a while. Edited January 30, 2015 by Hookian Link to comment
Cranberry January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 They wanted Will to be a principal? Link to comment
camussie January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) Nope. Finn expressed a passion for teaching and pursued that when coaching ND didn't look to be an option for him. He enrolled in college AFTER Will froze him out so as far he knew he would have been getting a degree to teach and coach glee somewhere else. For that matter, for all he knew, Will was going to continue to be the coach of ND for a good long while. That means even after he and Will made up he had every reason to believe that, while helping out at McKinley was good training, it wasn't going to be where he ended up after he graduated and had his own accreditation. Nothing Will said in that very last Finn scene indicated he was planning on leaving McKinley anytime soon. To break it down Finn was to Will in S4 as Sam is the Sheldon now. Assistants who were able to step in when the accredited coach/teacher steps back for a while but still only fill-ins who had no reason to believe what they were doing was going to lead them to landing the "head" position anytime soon. Given that it would make sense if Sam enrolled in college and worked toward coaching somewhere besides McKinley. What wouldn't make sense would it being in the NYC area because they had him clearly stating last season that NYC is not for him even AFTER he found success. I mean why make that a plot point if they were just going to back out of it this season all so Rachel can have some sort of endgame with a character they are selling as Finn lite? Of course that won't stop these writers because they have no consistent internal logic or characterization in their writing. If Sam finds his passion is coaching football and Beiste finds him a position in New York you honestly don't think he would take it? He can do what he loves to do and be with Rachel . Given how adamant he was about not liking NY after he found success there yes I would expect him to turn it down. It wasn't like he was beat down by NYC. He realized his dream there (to have his junk on a bus) and he still turned his back on it. As for the Rachel aspect it would depend on how serious they are. From what I know there are really no spoilers for them after whatever happens in 607 besides them sitting together at the wedding and some other scenes where they are with others. They wanted Will to be a principal? I have never seen any article or interview where that is mentioned by RM or any of the writers. I haven't seen it in any MM interviews either but I also haven't read/seen all of those so he could have said it. Edited January 30, 2015 by camussie Link to comment
tom87 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 They wanted Will to be a principal? Again no source is provided. 1 Link to comment
Hookian January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) They wanted Will to be a principal? Yes there were several interviews around S4 where they asked Matt what his endgame would be and he wanted Will to be the Principal at WMHS. The writers shared this same notion as well. I feel Will's endgame should be something more than what he already is, a Glee club coach. Plus I took Will's vow to Sue in the last episode as potential foreshadowing to this exact scenario happening. Will being the one to banish Sue from her throne and he becomes the principal. Edited January 30, 2015 by Hookian Link to comment
Cranberry January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Can you post some sources? I'd be interested in reading those interviews. Link to comment
Hookian January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Nope. Finn expressed a passion for teaching and pursued that when coaching ND didn't look to be an option for him. He enrolled in college AFTER Will froze him out so as far he knew he would have been getting a degree to teach and coach glee somewhere else. For that matter, for all he knew, Will was going to continue to be the coach of ND for a good long while. That means even after he and Will made up he had every reason to believe that, while helping out at McKinley was good training, it wasn't going to be where he ended up after he graduated and had his own accreditation. Nothing Will said in that very last Finn scene indicated he was planning on leaving McKinley anytime soon. To break it down Finn was to Will in S4 as Sam is the Sheldon now. Assistants who were able to step in when the accredited coach/teacher steps back for a while but still only fill-ins who had no reason to believe what they were doing was going to lead them to landing the "head" position anytime soon. Given that it would make sense if Sam enrolled in college and worked toward coaching somewhere besides McKinley. What wouldn't make sense would it being in the NYC area because they had him clearly stating last season that NYC is not for him even AFTER he found success. I mean why make that a plot point if they were just going to back out of it this season all so Rachel can have some sort of endgame with a character they are selling as Finn lite? Of course that won't stop these writers because they have no consistent internal logic or characterization to there story. Mckinley is where he ended up though, in the original version of the ending he was the glee coach at WMHS in the end. So Finn was cemented to stay in Lima, that is not at all the case for Sam. I did not say it had to be in the NYC area, there are suburbs around New York you do know this right? You do know people live outside of NYC right? Sam follows his heart so if the opportunity arises and Beiste can help him secure a coaching job in New York than I can easily see him going. It's Glee, logic doesn't exist. We're in S6 and yet some people still don't get it. You honestly don't think Beiste would do something like that for Sam after taking over the team for him in his absence? This is the same person that bought Artie a machine to be able to walk in AVGC just so Brittany could believe. Beiste would easily be able to get Sam a head coaching position anywhere. It's Glee. Link to comment
Pink ranger January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I think I've read most of the interviews Matts given and I honestly don't think he's ever said that he though Will should be principle. He's most common response for long term goals was for him to become a father. 1 Link to comment
Sara2009 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I'm pretty sure I've read/seen every Matt interview, and I don't recall him ever mentioning Will becoming a principal. Of course, I could be forgetting something. 4 Link to comment
tom87 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) If there is a Principal change I would assume Figgens would be back. I never understood this whole Finn would take over for Will anyway. Will is 35 he could teach for 30 more years. Edited January 30, 2015 by tom87 Link to comment
camussie January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) The point is Finn's passion to teach was not rooted in teaching ND at McKinley unlike what you claimed when you posted" "They locked Finn there because he took passion in the Glee Club at McKinley." His passion was to teach. Whether it be at ND or not because when he finally started going to college to to be a teacher he had every reason to believe he would not end up coaching ND. Not even in an assistant capacity, given that he and Will were very much on the outs So Finn was cemented to stay in Lima, that is not at all the case for Sam. I would have agreed with that before Sam found success in NYC and rejected it anyway. To me that was a clear indication that the writers think of Sam as someone who is not meant for the city. Much like when they had Finn saying that New York was "too fast" for him they used that to indicate that Finn was not meant for the city. The only difference I see is in Finn's case there was more room to backtrack given he said that at a time when he was really down on himself in general. I could have easily bought a story where as he gained confidence he decided he wanted to give college life outside of Lima a try and NY was one of the options (seeing as how getting out of Lima was his goal for the first three seasons). Comparatively Sam said that at a time when he was riding high so him rejecting NYC, despite that success, tells me he really just didn't like it there. And yes I do know people live outside of NYC but I don't think RM realizes that since he certainly didn't realize it for Finn. If he suddenly realizes it I will see it as one big screw you to Finn and Finn/Rachel fans who wanted nothing more than ending like that for him and them. If it happens I can easily visualize RM saying they didn't bow at the genius of my "I'm home" ending. I will show those ungrateful "fans" It's Glee. Sure it is and I said it could happen but that doesn't mean it should happen. I know RM and his team like to use that as an overall excuse for their awful nonsensical writing but that doesn't change that their writing is awful and nonsensical. Frankly the "It's Glee" excuse to paper over their WTF writing bugs me to no end - both when fans use it but especially when the people who produce Glee use it. Edited January 30, 2015 by camussie Link to comment
fakeempress January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) Sam follows his heart so if the opportunity arises and Beiste can help him secure a coaching job in New York than I can easily see him going. Sam follows that the writers write for him. If they write he follows Rachel, he'll follow her, and previous characterisation be damned. It won't be the first time the writers would retcon a character to fit their plot, since you mention Beiste. I am also not aware that Beiste is such an influence in the coaching world that he can now secure jobs for barely qualified people. I'm sure that imaginary suburban NY state school has a Sam of their own to find a coaching job for. But the writers can find a job for Sam there too, if they want. That doesn't mean I will be buying either Rachel staying back in Lima, or Sam moving to NY and some magic coaching job. Edited January 30, 2015 by fakeempress 1 Link to comment
indeed January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 So Finn was cemented to stay in Lima, that is not at all the case for Sam. In your opinion. Finn graduated McKinley and immediately left Lima for the Army and then when that didn't work out, he traveled, then wound up back in Lima. Sam graduated McKinley and went straight to NYC where he couch-surfed for a few months, became a model, and then decided to return to Lima. Both roughly the same amount of time away from Lima, both returning due to plot necessity. So, really, Sam's situation--shocker!--is not that different than Finn's. If Sam decides to make a legit career out of coaching, he could wind up taking the same path as Finn--college then full-time as a teacher/coach--you just know with all the pairing off going on Karofsky and Sheldon could run off together and leave the permanent position just waiting for Sam! But, since it's Glee, no higher education or actual experience is needed for Sam at all to take over the dangerous sport of football. And this is the last season with only a few episodes left, so Sam can decide to do whatever the hell the writers want him to do, no matter what he's said or done in the past (that goes for every character!).It was brought up many times that Kurt and Rachel lived 45 minutes outside of Downtown NYC, so I think everyone is aware that there is life outside of NYC (there's even *gasp* New Jersey)...except maybe Carrie Bradshaw. 1 Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I really want Sam to end up a Lima loser with a dead end job, no girlfriend, and no friends outside Blaine because honestly I don't understand how he would get anything that isn't that. I don't understand his appeal, he's the most uninspiring character the show has ever had. the only girlfriends I understood were the UHT. Quinn and Santana were basically using him, and Brittany is as uninspiring as Sam. There is no performance that has been improved by Sam, and no song performed by him that wouldn't have been better performed by someone else. I know he has nice abs but honestly if I was grading them he'd be behind Blake Jenner, Harry Shum, Jacob Artist, Mark Salling, Chris Colfer, and Darren Criss. 1 Link to comment
SevenStars January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I can't believe we are discussing whether Rachel will really decided to stay in Lima or go forward to reach her dream in the big City. Are we actually talking about RACHEL BERRY? RACHEL BERRY, the one that stepped on everyone and everything to be a star? Wow, this really telling us how far the writing for the show have gone down. 6 Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I can't believe we are discussing whether Rachel will really decided to stay in Lima or go forward to reach her dream in the big City. Are we actually talking about RACHEL BERRY? RACHEL BERRY, the one that stepped on everyone and everything to be a star? Wow, this really telling us how far the writing for the show have gone down. I'd actually only like if she stayed in Lima and became bitter and twisted and Sue like. But happy with that decision, no way. Much as she pissed me off I want the show to end with Rachel alone (in a good way) working her ass of in the theatre. 1 Link to comment
Sara2009 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) I really want Sam to end up a Lima loser with a dead end job, no girlfriend, and no friends outside Blaine because honestly I don't understand how he would get anything that isn' t that. I don't understand his appeal, he's the most uninspiring character the show has ever had. the only girlfriends I understood were the UHT. Quinn and Santana were basically using him, and Brittany is as uninspiring as Sam. There is no performance that has been improved by Sam, and no song performed by him that wouldn't have been better performed by someone else. I know he has nice abs but honestly if I was grading them he'd be behind Blake Jenner, Harry Shum, Jacob Artist, Mark Salling, Chris Colfer, and Darren Criss. Matt Morrison has a great body too. He's not everyone's cup of tea, but his abs are up there with Blake's and Harry's when he's been working out. Just watch clips from " South Pacific" ha ha. Edited January 30, 2015 by Sara2009 Link to comment
jaytee1812 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 I can't believe you forgot Matt Morrison. LOL. He's not everyone's cup of tea, but his abs are up there with Blake's and Harry's when he's been working out. Just watch clips from " South Pacific" ha ha. Or I could just google 'Matt Morrison shirtless'! Damn! Link to comment
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