Spoilers and Discussion

[Craphole Island]

Ya know, all this Mercedes talk has me wondering...how long before they have Amber sing "All About That Bass"? I just feel like they couldn't resist that.

[camussie]

There is a rumor it is being used in 607 and indeed Mercedes is singing it.  

[ComfySweater]

There is a rumor it is being used in 607 and indeed Mercedes is singing it.  

I like that song, but context is everything and Glee almost never makes that look good.

[Hookian]

This is the f*ckery this season is shaping up to be. Everyone is propping up Rachel like their lives and careers don't matter. Hell its like none of them can exist if they don't make sure that Rachel is taken care of first. I hope they are not trying to do another contrived love triangle. Mercedes deserves so much better than to be there encouraging the woman who gave no regards to her feelings while trying to get with her ex-boyfriend. The writers of this show SUCK and that's the best way I can describe them. I really don't want to see Mercedes hurting over this crap or another triangle for goodness sake. If you have no story line for her that's independent of making sure Rachel is okay then just let her fall to the wayside like the rest. They should have just called season 6 "The Rachel Berry Comeback And Friends" cause to date all we know is a. Rachel has failed b. Beiste will get a transgender story c. Brittana/Klaine will get married d. Sue will continue her same story line since season 1 and most or all of this will some how involve Rachel. But nothing solid on Mercedes, Artie, Will or the other members that made up the Glee club. It's the final season and Glee still can't do right by anyone else who's name isn't Rachel.

 

It doesn't sound much like a love triangle. It sounds like Mercedes is just there to support Rachel and probably also she's gonna support Samchel as well. She's being used as a prop for that storyline and while I called this happening. This is the last season and I would like something for Mercedes and Artie fans. They don't know anything at all about the characters storylines.

If Samchel is going to be so epic and true love, why ever would they need a prop?

I personally don't have a problem with Rachel having the main story. Glee has mainly been about her journey (even though when it started it was kind of Will's journey as well). The thing is, they then gave us glimpses of the journey's of some of the other characters along the way. I think there is just a hope that they can have some type of satisfactory resolution as well. I just don't want Mercedes (or anyone else for that matter) only story at the end to be about servicing Rachel's story. If they can just throw in a few lines somewhere that are about her I'd be happy. I'm not expecting a story line.

 

BC this is Glee and every story on Glee needs a prop. Or it needs to have an afterschool message attached to it.

[ComfySweater]

BC this is Glee and every story on Glee needs a prop. Or it needs to have an afterschool message attached to it.

Somebody get the plus sign on the pregnancy stick and we can move past this. 

[Hookian]

I don't mind any of the supporting characters, including Mercedes, being supporting characters.  I mind it when they are props  To me there is a difference.

• Mercedes encouraging Rachel to go back to her Broadway dreams?  Good use of the character since she is someone who had a professional setback but is now in a better place.  
• Mercedes being all nope it doesn't bother me at all that you are dating the guy I was just declaring my love to 6 months ago and that you encouraged me to break up with?  Stupid use of the character to prop an insipid romance.  Again if they thought they were going to do Sam/Rachel this year then it was absolutely a brain-dead move to spend so much story on Sam/Mercedes last year because in order for it to work, without Rachel ending up looking like an absolute horrible friend, Mercedes has to react like a emotionless robot who has no history, let alone recent history, with Sam.

 

 

Couldn't it just be simply that Mercedes has moved on and found someone else maybe? I don't think she has to act like some emotionless robot or anything like that.

Ya know, all this Mercedes talk has me wondering...how long before they have Amber sing "All About That Bass"? I just feel like they couldn't resist that.

What to prove that she doesn't need a man or something? Wouldn't surprise me. Isn't 6x07 the episode where Klaine find out about Sam and Rachel or something?

[tom87]

Well  Mercedes's meteoric rise to success has been told.  So it seems most characters get either success or relationship.

 

 

People are mixing a lot of unconfirmed rumors into things too.

 

All about that base is pure speculation on a tweet or something and Rachel and Sam dating in secret is not confirmed either.

Edited January 14, 2015 by tom87

[camussie]

Which is why I said it was specifically a rumor regarding All About the Bass.  

 

Couldn't it just be simply that Mercedes has moved on and found someone else maybe? I don't think she has to act like some emotionless robot or anything like that.

 

 

Here is where it falls apart. I feel if Mercedes started dating Finn while Rachel was was shacked up with Brody (thus giving the impression she had moved on) it would be dumb and contrived writing for Rachel to be all supportive of it considering 6 months before she and Finn were declaring their undying love for each other.  Once again if they thought they were going to go there with Rachel/Sam this year it stupid to give so much story to Sam/Mercedes last year and beyond story have them declare such deep feelings for each other while Rachel of all people said they were soulmates.

 

Dumb writing is dumb writing and being able to predict it (which isn't hard considering glee is 75% dumb writing)  doesn't make it any less dumb 

Edited January 14, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Who is the most "reliable" source for the Samchel spoilers?

Didn't I read somewhere that they date in secret , Klaine discovers their courtship, they don't utter the 3 little words, etc?

[tom87]

Who is the most "reliable" source for the Samchel spoilers?

Didn't I read somewhere that they date in secret , Klaine discovers their courtship, they don't utter the 3 little words, etc?

From what I remember that was from a tumblr that has since been taken down.

 

Right now there are no reliable sources.  We did get one from a Brittana twitter who gave other details about the wedding that they were dating but nothing on if it was in secret or when they start dating.  The only other rumor that seems to be very possible is that they sing a duet in episode 6 Chord confirmed he was singing  a  duet and some random witness said Rachel/Sam sing I'll never fall in love again which now seems very plausible due to the Burt B songs.

Edited January 14, 2015 by tom87

[Hookian]

Who is the most "reliable" source for the Samchel spoilers?

Didn't I read somewhere that they date in secret , Klaine discovers their courtship, they don't utter the 3 little words, etc?

 

A person that had their tumblr deleted said that it's not a rebound relationship. They have feelings for each other but they haven't said the 3 words yet. Which I'm sure they will by the end of the series. 

Which is why I said it was specifically a rumor regarding All About the Bass.  

 

 

Here is where it falls apart. I feel if Mercedes started dating Finn while Rachel was was shacked up with Brody (thus giving the impression she had moved on) it would be dumb and contrived writing for Rachel to be all supportive of it considering 6 months before she and Finn were declaring their undying love for each other.  Once again if they thought they were going to go there with Rachel/Sam this year it stupid to give so much story to Sam/Mercedes last year and beyond story have them declare such deep feelings for each other while Rachel of all people said they were soulmates.

 

Dumb writing is dumb writing and being able to predict it (which isn't hard considering glee is 75% dumb writing)  doesn't make it any less dumb 

 

Well you can't compare the two. Finchel were close to getting married, Samcedes... not even close. But yes I understand what you're saying, unfortunately though the writers could not start the storyline when they wanted to because it was still way too soon after Finn died. 

 

Mercedes is probably gonna be okay with Samchel and probably gives her support to Rachel, bc she'll likely either have been shown to have moved on or she has the "I don't need no man attitude"

 

It's just strange if this was a love triangle, this is not the spoilers we would be getting. Plus we have yet to even hear if Amber/Chord have filmed anything together alone meanwhile there's tons of scenes that have been filmed with only Chord/Lea. To me it just seems like Mercedes is being used to prop Rachel/Samchel. Which is kind of sad for her.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hookian

[camussie]

I am unclear if Brittany/Santana are touring with Mercedes anymore.  On one hand it seems they are getting some of the same time off.  On the other it seems that B/S are back at times when Mercedes isn't and vice versa.  

Edited January 14, 2015 by camussie

[Pink ranger]

Don't buy any of that. Will is plain wrong to get his show choir to tank just to build up ND's, well really Rachel's, confidence. If he can't connect with the kids that is on him. Not them since he is the one being paid to do exactly that - connect with them. If he is miserable there he should quit and run back to McKinley rather than not give it his all.

Also it appears nothing is failing with VA. With the exception of

2013 they have been first or second in every nationals competition this show has had since it began. Not to mention as far as we know they don't have members trying to give each other eating disorders, etc. Why would a program like that need to be overhauled?

Wouldn't Will asking VA to take mercy on a fledgling Glee club who are only 5 members strong, to use invitationals as a collaboration exercise to makes friends with like minded Musically inclined kids be a Will way of trying to " humanise" them?

If Will wants to bond with VA it's seems that he either has to become a soleless machine him self or infuse heart into his club.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Pink ranger

[Advance35]

Mercedes was always a supporting character so it makes sense that she's being brought back to support a main character's story. Btw, I think none of these stories are any good, including Rachel's.  The writers totally blew up Rachel's character arc to force her back to the town she vowed to leave and never look back.

 

I'll also add, I don't think the "actress" does nuanced rage well.   I find she's better when not given too much heavy lifting.   Last season she was servicable if unremarkable, because her storyline was basic and uncomplicated.   Past seasons have shown when she's given anything approaching momentum.......um.....yea.  Please don't. IMO.

 

Well you can't compare the two. Finchel were close to getting married, Samcedes... not even close. But yes I understand what you're saying, unfortunately though the writers could not start the storyline when they wanted to because it was still way too soon after Finn died.

 

I'll always regret that the writers did this.  Finn and Rachel weren't together during this period, they were just very good friends.   Based on the episode where they flirted with Sam/Rachel, I think Lea was professional enough to do her job, so that wasn't the problem, I think as usual it was fan pandering.   And honestly after the tatoo episode and the little talk between Rachel and Mercedes, I never felt like Rachel was in mourning (nor should she have) I felt like she was young woman living her life.

 

Though I've never felt emotional gravity with any relationship between any of the Glee Characters.  Finn/Rachel, deep as a puddle and as appealing as a mud puddle.  Sam/Mercedes - limited actors, uninspired b-storylines and as interesting as an uncooked carrot.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Advance35

[jaytee1812]

Is that the twins doing Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?

 

Actually was autotune broken for that one too?

Edited January 14, 2015 by jtrattray

[KatWay]

 

I'll always regret that the writers did this.  Finn and Rachel weren't together during this period, they were just very good friends.   Based on the episode where they flirted with Sam/Rachel, I think Lea was professional enough to do her job, so that wasn't the problem, I think as usual it was fan pandering.   And honestly after the tatoo episode and the little talk between Rachel and Mercedes, I never felt like Rachel was in mourning (nor should she have) I felt like she was young woman living her life.

Yeah, why would Rachel mourn the guy she had dated for three years and came closing to marrying and still had a deep emotional connection with. Out of sight, out of mind. I'm sure it would have gone over really well if they had moved her on to Sam after five episodes.

Finn 1.0 is dead? Never mind, here's Finn 2.0 who can seamlessly replace him! It's a polarising enough storyline now, after more than a year has passed, but back then enough people were pissed off at even the flirting in S5 (and honestly I was annoyed too, because it couldn't have been more obvious that the writers had decided to pave the way for Rachel + last able bodied white male available).

[Advance35]

Well again, I never found Finn/Rachel deep, maybe the writers wanted me to, but it never worked.   So there was no attachment, not even in a nostalgia kind of way.   I won't get into the Finn 2.0 thing because I don't see it and others do, so whatever.

 

If not Sam, they should have still gone forward with Peter Francinelli as a love interest for Rachel (maybe even "Endgame"), I maintain Rachel was sad and missed him but I only got a "best friend" vibe from them in the end.

 

And I would have thought that by that point, RIB knew Glee fandom is always outraged about something. shrugs.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Advance35

[KatWay]

Yeah, but that's completely leaving out the real life events that even led to all of it on Glee. They only decided to kill off Finn because Cory died, so this needed to be handled with more sensitivity than Glee's usual "how do we piss off as many people as possible" policy.

 

And while they were friends till the end (And Finn and Rachel usually were, when they were not dating), I'm pretty sure we were meant to see them as more than that - in 4x14 "I do", they reconnect sexually and Finn even basically tells her they'll find their way back to each other, in 4x17 "Guilty Pleasures" Finn beat up Brody (nevermind how much I disliked that storyline, clearly that wasn't just BFF talking). And in the last episode I'm fairly sure that Rachel's important phone call would have been Finn not Will, if Cory hadn't gone to rehab. So maybe you never felt it and that's fine, things work for some and not for others, but their connection was always emphasised on Glee (whatever you might think of that). So it absolutely made sense to me that Rachel would take a break from dating after losing the first boy she was really in love with and the one she maybe still thought she would end up with.

[truthaboutluv]

Whether one found Rachel and Finn "deep" or not, the point is, canonically it was established that this was a guy she'd been in love with for something like three years, like Katway pointed out, and that she had even contemplated marrying and clearly still had feelings for even after they broke up considering she slept with him while with Brody the gigolo. And then he died - he didn't just up and move to another city, another country - he died. And as was shown in The Quarterback, she was clearly in a lot of grief about it.

 

So yes, the notion that she would have just happily moved on to some other guy who was his friend barely a month or two after, was a weird pill to swallow and I find it more surprising that one thinks viewers being bothered by that is what was strange. As for the Peter Facinelli thing, again, the rumor was that he was planned as a love interest BEFORE Season 5 started, meaning before Cory and by that token Finn passed away, much like Finn was going to date Nurse Penny. So far as I know, they didn't plan that love interest for Rachel with the knowledge that Finn would be dead. And once that happened, they seemed to quickly move away from that idea. 

[Hookian]

Whether one found Rachel and Finn "deep" or not, the point is, canonically it was established that this was a guy she'd been in love with for something like three years, like Katway pointed out, and that she had even contemplated marrying and clearly still had feelings for even after they broke up considering she slept with him while with Brody the gigolo. And then he died - he didn't just up and move to another city, another country - he died. And as was shown in The Quarterback, she was clearly in a lot of grief about it.

 

So yes, the notion that she would have just happily moved on to some other guy who was his friend barely a month or two after, was a weird pill to swallow and I find it more surprising that one thinks viewers being bothered by that is what was strange. As for the Peter Facinelli thing, again, the rumor was that he was planned as a love interest BEFORE Season 5 started, meaning before Cory and by that token Finn passed away, much like Finn was going to date Nurse Penny. So far as I know, they didn't plan that love interest for Rachel with the knowledge that Finn would be dead. And once that happened, they seemed to quickly move away from that idea. 

 

Yep to all of this. I mean of course people were upset, they gave Sam/Rachel these anvils 3 episodes after Finn's death episode, that's just ridiculous. Fans wanted Rachel to mourn Finn for at the very least an entire season before thrusting her back into the love game. This is the guy she called her person, was gonna marry, he called her his future wife(cringe at that awful Twilight-esque line) So that's what the writers did, they stupidly brought back Samcedes but as Ian said in the S5 DVD.

 

Ian Brennan: The Sam and Mercedes relationship is one of the relationships, one of the few relationships on the show that we hadn't really paid off, we sort of teased it and then it sort of disappeared, it was always something we had an eye to paying off.

 

 

Make of that what you will but that doesn't sound like Samcedes was ever intended as endgame. This to me sounds pretty final in regards to Sam/Mercedes relationship, not happening. Sounded more like they were a stepping stone and something the show was doing as a checklist sort of thing, probably also to place Sam and Rachel on hold till the necessary time. 

 

When you look at the spoilers we've received, there's absolutely no indication of a love triangle. Which I'm shocked about because I expected it. We just simply have so far Mercedes being used as a prop for Rachel and the Sam/Rachel storyline.

 

Now if we find out Mercedes plan to get Rachel to Broadway has in any part to deal with getting her away from Sam then that's clearly a love triangle set up. However, it would be so OOC of Mercedes to do that, not to mention it wouldn't work, and it would paint Mercedes in a negative light ala Terri. 

 

Still absolutely zero information on individual storylines for Artie and Mercedes in the final season.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hookian

[Myrna123]

I think however the series ends, Season 6 will be an unsatisfactory journey with an ending that only a handful of viewers liked or appreciated and for the next 20 years we'll have to listen to RM say how universally beloved Glee was every single minute it appeared on TV and how the ending was exactly what every single viewer to a person wanted to see.

 

Would anyone be entirely surprised if the three minute "Here's What You'll Miss the Next 20 Years on Glee" wrap-up has Artie becoming an astronaut, Emma curing all dread diseases and Becky being elected Governor of Ohio?

[ComfySweater]

Would anyone be entirely surprised if the three minute "Here's What You'll Miss the Next 20 Years on Glee" wrap-up has Artie becoming an astronaut, Emma curing all dread diseases and Becky being elected Governor of Ohio?

All of that makes more sense than Blainofsky. Lord Tubbington can be a runaway groom with a guy who has an unusually large on the inside police call box while we're tossing out absurd things that make more sense than canon. 

[fakeempress]

Yep to all of this. I mean of course people were upset, they gave Sam/Rachel these anvils 3 episodes after Finn's death episode, that's just ridiculous. Fans wanted Rachel to mourn Finn for at the very least an entire season before thrusting her back into the love game. This is the guy she called her person, was gonna marry, he called her his future wife(cringe at that awful Twilight-esque line) So that's what the writers did, they stupidly brought back Samcedes but as Ian said in the S5 DVD.

 

 

Make of that what you will but that doesn't sound like Samcedes was ever intended as endgame. This to me sounds pretty final in regards to Sam/Mercedes relationship, not happening. Sounded more like they were a stepping stone and something the show was doing as a checklist sort of thing, probably also to place Sam and Rachel on hold till the necessary time. 

 

When you look at the spoilers we've received, there's absolutely no indication of a love triangle. Which I'm shocked about because I expected it. We just simply have so far Mercedes being used as a prop for Rachel and the Sam/Rachel storyline.

 

Now if we find out Mercedes plan to get Rachel to Broadway has in any part to deal with getting her away from Sam then that's clearly a love triangle set up. However, it would be so OOC of Mercedes to do that, not to mention it wouldn't work, and it would paint Mercedes in a negative light ala Terri. 

 

Still absolutely zero information on individual storylines for Artie and Mercedes in the final season.

I'd hardly call "teasing" the stories on the Sam/Mercedes relationship before they brought them back together in NYC. RIB could've left it at them not working out and off to new pastures, if the intent was to show yet again they won't work out, so NYC is completely superfluous in that regard. I don't know what Ian meant in this quote.

 

As to the whole busines of "soulmates" and "endgame": Had Cory not died, necessitating the dying of Finn, Sam wouldn't be in the picture re Rachel's possible endgame at all. There was nothing in the story before Cory's passing to anchor Sam/Rachel with Finn alive and present. The anvils were dropped afterwards in S5, and the fans rebelled. At that same point of the show, there was more than enough past canon to anchor Sam/Mercedes as endgame, if they so intended, and there still is, if they still intend to do it. What I'm saying is, unlike Sam/Rachel which is based on an outside factor (real life intervening), Sam/Mercedes being thrown back together in NYC, or potentially ending the series together, has and can be based off the characters themselves. Sam/Mercedes have canon reasons if they turn out to be the "soulmates", Sam/Rachel don't. As for endgame, we don't know. If Sam/Rachel end together, I'll definitely take it as a Finn substitute relationship, i.e. RIB still insisting on their Finchel ending, thus having to use the Finn 2.0.

Edited January 14, 2015 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

I don't mind any of the supporting characters, including Mercedes, being supporting characters.  I mind it when they are props  To me there is a difference.

 

 

 I feel both individual characters, Kurt and Blaine are now just props for the "relationship Klaine".  At first Blaine was the prop, but now it's also Kurt.  Neither character really gets to function.   Blaine gets more songs , but he's still as vaguely defined as ever, and Kurt just mouths now he's either pissed at Blaine or that Blaine is the love of his life. 

[Hookian]

I'd hardly call "teasing" the stories on the Sam/Mercedes relationship before they brought them back together in NYC. RIB could've left it at them not working out and off to new pastures, if the intent was to show yet again they won't work out, so NYC is completely superfluous in that regard. I don't know what Ian meant in this quote.

 

As to the whole busines of "soulmates" and "endgame": Had Cory not died, necessitating the dying of Finn, Sam wouldn't be in the picture re Rachel's possible endgame at all. There was nothing in the story before Cory's passing to anchor Sam/Rachel with Finn alive and present. The anvils were dropped afterwards in S5, and the fans rebelled. At that same point of the show, there was more than enough past canon to anchor Sam/Mercedes as endgame, if they so intended, and there still is, if they still intend to do it. What I'm saying is, unlike Sam/Rachel which is based on an outside factor (real life intervening), Sam/Mercedes being thrown back together in NYC, or potentially ending the series together, has and can be based off the characters themselves. Sam/Mercedes have canon reasons if they turn out to be the "soulmates", Sam/Rachel don't. As for endgame, we don't know. If Sam/Rachel end together, I'll definitely take it as a Finn substitute relationship, i.e. RIB still insisting on their Finchel ending, thus having to use the Finn 2.0.

 

Ian was referring to the Samcedes relationship and going back to it because it was something they left off without it being paid off, and it was one of the few relationships on the show that they left off. Essentially that gives a sense of finality of Sam/Mercedes coupling from the S5 finale and the writers were basically using them as a checklist. From what Ian said that's not how you tread an "endgame" coupling, it's how you treat baggage that has to be finished before the season is done and you move on to the next and in this case final one. 

 

The fans rebelled not because of the idea of Sam/Rachel, it was the fact that it hadn't even been 3 episodes since Finn died and they were already placing anvils on Sam/Rachel when it was still way too soon. RIB doesn't give a crap about fans rebelling, they just realized that it was too soon. Even Falchuk referenced that when someone brought up Sam/Rachel and he said "not yet". This basis that IF Cory did die is irrelevant. Cory did tragically die, we all know Finchel was endgame, period. Plus during the Sam/Mercedes relationship there were several hints to Samchel, from Rachel especially. It was not just Movin' Out. 

 

I generally don't see Rachel ending up with Sam to be a Finn substitute but YMMV. I think it would be great because Sam's one of the people that wouldn't expect Rachel to ever give up her love for Finn. He loved Finn as well, they all did. He understands her in ways that some random LI popping in could not. Finn would want Rachel to move on, presumably with a good guy that will treat her the way she deserves. Sam is someone that he called a friend and trusted. 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hookian

[jaytee1812]

 

I generally don't see Rachel ending up with Sam to be a Finn substitute but YMMV. I think it would be great because Sam's one of the people that wouldn't expect Rachel to ever give up her love for Finn. He loved Finn as well, they all did. He understands her in ways that some random LI popping in could not.

He's not a Finn substitute, he's Finn-lite. He's always gonna be second place to Finn in her eyes, because if he's anything more she's lost her freakin' mind. And she's throwing away her friendship for it. Even if they have Mercedes give her blessing it still looks like Rachel can't be friends with a women unless she beats them in competition, even if it's one in her own head.

[camussie]

Essentially that gives a sense of finality of Sam/Mercedes from the S5 finale and the writers were basically using them as a checklist. From what Ian said that's not how you tread an "endgame" coupling, it's how you treat baggage that has to be finished before the season is done and you move on to the next one.

 

 

If that is indeed what Ian meant (and to be clear NONE of us know for sure it was) that it was dumb writing for Sam to tell Mercedes no matter who he's with, or what he's doing, he'd rather be doing it with her and for Rachel to call them soulmates.  I would actually say BEFORE the Sam/Mercedes revisit last year nothing needed to be "checked off" with them. There was NO baggage. They were DONE.

 

Unfortunately NOW there is baggage because they revisited them last spring and had them declaring there everlasting love to each other.  That isn't to say that RM and his inept team won't ignore what they wrote but it is to say that IF they wanted to avoid any Sam/Mercedes baggage before going forward with Sam/Rachel they went about it in exactly the wrong way,

 

Sam's one of the people that wouldn't expect Rachel to ever give up her love for Finn. He loved Finn as well, they all did. He understands her in ways that some random LI popping in could not.

 

 

Unless Rachel dates a sociopath (and I assume she wouldn't) I doubt any guy she was with would expect her to not hold a special place in her heart for Finn even as she moved forward with him.  Tragic as it is, it isn't that uncommon for someone to lose a person they were in love with and plenty of people who never knew that person handle it fine every day.  See Burt/Carole.  That is why I just don't buy the "well only those who knew both Finn and Rachel would understand what Rachel needs" argument.  

 

That is why all of these spoilers annoy me so.  It is like, shortly after Cory passed, RM and team made a list of what to do to make this Sam/Rachel romance as muddled and annoying as possible and they are checking off every box on it.  It is either that or they are just that inept at running their show.  Of course neither one would be a surprise since the only thing more true than RM and team can't write a multi-season show to save their lives is that they live to troll their audience.  

Edited January 14, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

Even if they have Mercedes give her blessing it still looks like Rachel can't be friends with a women unless she beats them in competition, even if it's one in her own head.

 

 

All this talk about Sam/Rachel is headache inducing when nothing's even aired yet, but there's no indication that is is a competition to anyone.  People move on and drift apart.  It's not a big deal that Sam/Mercedes broke up and Sam moves on even if it is a mutual friend.  I still don't want to see it because I think Sam's a moron, but Rachel is not doing anything wrong here.

[caracas1914]

He understands her in ways that some random LI popping in could not.

Not necessarily, considering he lacks ambition/drive , wants to stay in a small town and doesn't seem to want any kind of performing arts career ( which is perfectly fine) , one could argue that Sam probaly doesn't relate to Rachel on several levels.

In the show Sam is more portrayed as a laid back dim witted chameleon who adopts to whichever girl he's with, aka Quinn, Santana, Mercedes, Brittany , Nurse Penny and then back to Mercedes. They could pair with Becky and the same argument " he understands her in some ways" could equally apply.

In some ways he's the perfect match for Becky, her temper tantrums wouldn't bother Sam , both have a sense of humor, and since she seems to have a healthy libido and Sam can't stay celibate, even physically they click. There are glances between Sam and Becky that presage an amazing chemistry.

Edited January 14, 2015 by caracas1914

[tom87]

All this talk about Sam/Rachel is headache inducing when nothing's even aired yet, but there's no indication that is is a competition to anyone.  People move on and drift apart.  It's not a big deal that Sam/Mercedes broke up and Sam moves on even if it is a mutual friend.  I still don't want to see it because I think Sam's a moron, but Rachel is not doing anything wrong here.

Exactly, acting as if Rachel is going after Sam just to  one up Mercedes is nonsense.  Also  twisting things is when some people go back to the part that Rachel (but exclude that Kurt and Brittany did too) encouraged her to break up with Sam like this has been a long term plan of Rachel's.    What next Rachel gets Sue to hypnotize Sam so her will kiss her?

[jaytee1812]

All this talk about Sam/Rachel is headache inducing when nothing's even aired yet, but there's no indication that is is a competition to anyone.  People move on and drift apart.  It's not a big deal that Sam/Mercedes broke up and Sam moves on even if it is a mutual friend.  I still don't want to see it because I think Sam's a moron, but Rachel is not doing anything wrong here.

I don't think she's doing it to one up Mercedes or that Mercedes being Sam's ex is a consideration for her. But it adds up to having no female, except possibly Brittany she hasn't competed with whether it being glee or a man. It looks like she has to win, although I doubt it will be played like that.

[Myrna123]

 

but Rachel is not doing anything wrong here.

I think it's slightly disingenuous to act like everyone always starts dating their good friend's ex shortly after they break up and no one cares even one little tiny bit.  That's not how human nature works 99% of the time, even though everyone who wants Rachel to end up saddled with Sam has a good friend who started dating another good friend shortly after the one good friend broke up with the other good friend and they're all, you guessed it, really good friends.  Most women I know would not date a good friend's ex, especially right after they broke up--it's an issue of personal integrity and being the kind of friend you want to have and not being douchey to one another.

[camussie]

I don't think Rachel deliberately goes after Sam to get back at Mercedes and I also don't think she (and others) encouraged Mercedes to break up with Sam to have a chance with him.   I do think before a person starts dating a guy, who was living with a good friend, who they called the good friend's soulmate, and who they encouraged their friend to break up with 6 months prior, they should at least talk to said friend about it. There is a lot of room between Rachel being malicious (which she isn't being) and possibly doing something wrong.  

Edited January 14, 2015 by camussie

[Ann Mack]

If that is indeed what Ian meant (and to be clear NONE of us know for sure it was) that it was dumb writing for Sam to tell Mercedes no matter who he's with, or what he's doing, he'd rather be doing it with her and for Rachel to call them soulmates.  I would actually say BEFORE the Sam/Mercedes revisit last year nothing needed to be "checked off" with them. There was NO baggage. They were DONE.

 

Unfortunately NOW there is baggage because they revisited them last spring and had them declaring there everlasting love to each other.  That isn't to say that RM and his inept team won't ignore what they wrote but it is to say that IF they wanted to avoid any Sam/Mercedes baggage before going forward with Sam/Rachel they went about it in exactly the wrong way,

 

 

Unless Rachel dates a sociopath (and I assume she wouldn't) I doubt any guy she was with would expect her to not hold a special place in her heart for Finn even as she moved forward with him.  Tragic as it is, it isn't that uncommon for someone to lose a person they were in love with and plenty of people who never knew that person handle it fine every day.  See Burt/Carole.  That is why I just don't buy the "well only those who knew both Finn and Rachel would understand what Rachel needs" argument.  

 

That is why all of these spoilers annoy me so.  It is like, shortly after Cory passed, RM and team made a list of what to do to make this Sam/Rachel romance as muddled and annoying as possible and they are going down it making sure to check every box.  It is either that or they are just that inept at running their show.  Of course neither one would be a surprise since the only thing more true than RM and team can't write a multi-season show to save their lives is that they live to troll their audience.  

 

What interview or statement is everyone talking about from Ian if you have it or know what he specifically said can you share it please? Thank you.

[Advance35]

All this talk about Sam/Rachel is headache inducing when nothing's even aired yet, but there's no indication that is is a competition to anyone.  People move on and drift apart.  It's not a big deal that Sam/Mercedes broke up and Sam moves on even if it is a mutual friend.  I still don't want to see it because I think Sam's a moron, but Rachel is not doing anything wrong here.

 

For me (Nothing at all against Chord, I think he's a serviceable actor, the only really good male one's in Glee's deck of cards being MM, JG, GG, MA) the best thing about Sam are his looks.   If he ends up with Rachel, I can enjoy it for her sake and I could see why she'd want him on a physical level.    Rachel once proclaimed undying love to Mr. Schue, she did it with Finn, Jesse St. James and at one time thought Blaine would be for her.   She can be very mercurial on an emotional level.  The only thing that would see like carry over to me is the fact that Rachel doesn't mind a lack of intelligence.   Everyone has a fetish.

[Hookian]

Exactly, acting as if Rachel is going after Sam just to  one up Mercedes is nonsense.  Also  twisting things is when some people go back to the part that Rachel (but exclude that Kurt and Brittany did too) encouraged her to break up with Sam like this has been a long term plan of Rachel's.    What next Rachel gets Sue to hypnotize Sam so her will kiss her?

 

Yeah and we just know how much Rachel loves getting stomped on especially with how fragile her heart is after losing Finn. She hasn't been with anybody since episode S4.

[Hookian]

What interview or statement is everyone talking about from Ian if you have it or know what he specifically said can you share it please? Thank you.

 

No interview with a sharing link. If you have a S5 DVD, Ian talks about why they brought back Sam/Mercedes. 

Ian Brennan: The Sam and Mercedes relationship is one of the relationships, one of the few relationships on the show that we hadn't really paid off, we sort of teased it and then it sort of disappeared, it was always something we had an eye to paying off.

 

 

That's not what I would say about an endgame pairing. Saying that makes it sound like Samcedes was essentially just there to check it off the list of things they still had left to do. Plus to me this has a sense of finality to it, and I know I'm not the only one that interpreted it this way. I've been saying that they used Samcedes to stall Samchel and it looks like that has some validation to it. 

 

Also take in Falchuk's quote from a couple days back. A fan specifically asked if Samcedes would find happiness together in the end. Falchuk responded with they both are and will end up very happy. That is hella ambiguous and Falchuk is the farthest thing from. That to me was them not so subtly saying that they can still end up very happy despite not ending up together.

 

Spoilers also do not appear to be showing any kind of triangle at all forming.

[caracas1914]

Rachel doesn't mind a lack of intelligence.

 

I beg to differ.  Jesse St. James may have lacked  a bit of self discipline while studying (who knew UCLA didn't supply like VA people to do his exams for him?) but his self centerdedness didn't stop that he had a smart show choir mind, he was a choir whisperer after all.  Brody was both pretty and had stage ambitions ,and while easy going he certainly seemed to have a serviceable IQ.  Blaine , well, he was  oblivious but he wasn't stupid. 

 

Certainly none of them entered the depths of placing cereal on a floor to lure a girl or assume all Black people know each other. Even  Finn would have looked at something doing that and say, :"fuck they're stupid."

 

I like Sam in some ways, but his levels of stupidity are awe inspiring even for Glee.

[jaytee1812]

For me (Nothing at all against Chord, I think he's a serviceable actor, the only really good male one's in Glee's deck of cards being MM, JG, GG, MA) the best thing about Sam are his looks.   If he ends up with Rachel, I can enjoy it for her sake and I could see why she'd want him on a physical level.    Rachel once proclaimed undying love to Mr. Schue, she did it with Finn, Jesse St. James and at one time thought Blaine would be for her.   She can be very mercurial on an emotional level.  The only thing that would see like carry over to me is the fact that Rachel doesn't mind a lack of intelligence.   Everyone has a fetish.

If we're going by looks Sam's pretty near the bottom of the pile too.

[Hookian]

 

I think it's slightly disingenuous to act like everyone always starts dating their good friend's ex shortly after they break up and no one cares even one little tiny bit.  That's not how human nature works 99% of the time, even though everyone who wants Rachel to end up saddled with Sam has a good friend who started dating another good friend shortly after the one good friend broke up with the other good friend and they're all, you guessed it, really good friends.  Most women I know would not date a good friend's ex, especially right after they broke up--it's an issue of personal integrity and being the kind of friend you want to have and not being douchey to one another.

 

 

What is your definition of shortly or right after because on the show it's been more than half a year since they broke up.

 

That is plenty of time to move on from a relationship. 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hookian

[ComfySweater]

It will never be not weird because Rachel advised Mercedes to drop him. Time passing is not ever enough if you fan the breakup. That will always be awkward times.

[Hookian]

It will never be not weird because Rachel advised Mercedes to drop him. Time passing is not ever enough if you fan the breakup. That will always be awkward times.

It wasn't just, Rachel. Many of their friends suggested the same thing. Why does Rachel get all the blame?

[jaytee1812]

It wasn't just, Rachel. Many of their friends suggested the same thing. Why does Rachel get all the blame?

Because she's the one who going to be sleeping with him. She gained from it, no-one else.

Although I'm not sure how much of a gain I'd call Sam.

[ComfySweater]

It wasn't just, Rachel. Many of their friends suggested the same thing. Why does Rachel get all the blame?

She's the only one trying to date him and succeeding. I'll fling Blaine under that bus too if Sam ever decides to collect those particular germs and trip to the free clinic.

[Myrna123]

What is your definition of shortly or right after because on the show it's been more than half a year since they broke up.

 

That is plenty of time to move on from a relationship. 

But not enough time to keep both Rachel and Sam from being crappy people for dating one another.  Fictional characters make decisions all the time that show them lacking in personal integrity.  This is one of those decisions.

 

All RIB really had to do was have Mercedes come back in the first ep of this season and tell Sam she's met someone else and will always treasure the time they had together.  Instead, we have Sam checking in with her to make sure she's still available, and we have a spoiler that Sam actually says he's still interested in Mercedes.  They're dangling the relationship as something viable because why exactly?  They want to make Rachel and Sam look extra awesome for hooking up later?

[Hookian]

Because she's the one who going to be sleeping with him. She gained from it, no-one else.

Although I'm not sure how much of a gain I'd call Sam.

 

I must have missed that spoiler where it said Rachel and Sam were gonna have sex.

 

From spoilers all you can tell is they're taking it slow and they haven't said "I love you" yet you know that's gonna happen. That's why they sing that song from Promises, Promises. Probably gonna have a whole episode leading up to that moment. Wouldn't surprise me if it's the series finale. I don't know how they can be having sex, if they're taking the relationship slow. 

 

After how much they've both been burned in the past by love, taking it slow is a necessity.

But not enough time to keep both Rachel and Sam from being crappy people for dating one another.  Fictional characters make decisions all the time that show them lacking in personal integrity.  This is one of those decisions.

 

All RIB really had to do was have Mercedes come back in the first ep of this season and tell Sam she's met someone else and will always treasure the time they had together.  Instead, we have Sam checking in with her to make sure she's still available, and we have a spoiler that Sam actually says he's still interested in Mercedes.  They're dangling the relationship as something viable because why exactly?  They want to make Rachel and Sam look extra awesome for hooking up later?

 

They're not dating, yet. Even in the episode Mercedes comes back in they're not dating. They sing "I'll Never Fall in Love Again" does that sound like they're dating to you? 

 

Well I guess they couldn't fit that in when there was so much Sam/Rachel crap going on and all they did was fling a throwaway line for Sam to say to Mercedes. I mean that's all the interaction they had in the premiere and compare that to Sam and Rachel's interactions and it's just pinpointing where the focus is. Mercedes even looked annoyed and if she wasn't interested. Mercedes returns in 6, whose to say that isn't when she gives Sam some more heartbreak while also telling him exactly what you've just said? BC essentially that would be the go ahead for Sam/Rachel right? If they use Mercedes in 6 to be a prop for Sam and Rachel?

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hookian

[Advance35]

Certainly none of them entered the depths of placing cereal on a floor to lure a girl or assume all Black people know each other. Even  Finn would have looked at something doing that and say, :"fuck they're stupid."

 

Now at this point I must disagree.   I feel like Finn was at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of brains.   And it's not like he ever improved in my view.    He was always easily manipulated, easily tricked, just....sigh.   But I guess one can view that as subjective perception as well.  But again take into account that I think Sam surpasses Finn in terms of Physical appearance by a notable margin as well.   Given the writing of this show, I will admit the superficial can sway me on occasion.

 

And agreed Jesse St. James was MOUNTAINS ahead of dumb as a smashed tomatoe Finn, but Rachel ended up choosing the eggplant anyway.

[jaytee1812]

I must have missed that spoiler where it said Rachel and Sam were gonna have sex.

 

From spoilers all you can tell is they're taking it slow and they haven't said "I love you" yet you know that's gonna happen. That's why they sing that song from Promises, Promises. Probably gonna have a whole episode leading up to that moment. Wouldn't surprise me if it's the series finale. I don't know how they can be having sex, if they're taking the relationship slow. 

 

After how much they've both been burned in the past by love, taking it slow is a necessity. No sex yet.

What else are they doing together? Talking?! And when has Sam been burnt by love?

[camussie]

Actually all they had to do was never revisit Sam/Mercedes last season in the first place or at the very least not end them on a note where they are declaring their unending love for each other and their friends are calling them soul mates.  Since it has been decreed they always planned on doing Sam/Rachel , but just had to bide their time until this season, the WTFness of the whole Mercedes issue would have been solved had they NOT gone there last season.

 

Sure there would be other WTF issues but that at least the whole Mercedes angle wouldn't be one.  

 

As far as Sam/Rachel unless both are born again virgins I think it is safe to assume they are going to have sex since they are dating each other.  Neither one has the same world view towards sex before marriage as Mercedes and there is nothing wrong with that.  

Edited January 14, 2015 by camussie

[ComfySweater]

They had Sam check in on the status of Mercedes's v-card. I'm going to call that gross and some sort of setting up of a triangle.