Spoilers and Discussion

[SevenStars]

I wanted better for ALL characters in the final season. Yes they have made a mess of this. However, some are finding ways to justify this pairing. I really don't understand but maybe that is my logic and total disgust for how they are writing this with no regard for Finn or Mercedes IMO. Lord how I would love for it all to be revealed and Sam is standing there with his usual confused face saying "I feel so violated" cause in all honestly he is being done just that!

 

I agree, I  wanted more for all the characters, I just mentioned Sam and Rachel, because they were the ones I was discussing in my post. 

 

I think this story-line violated Sam physically, mentally, emotional, while it exploited Rachel at her her most vulnerable time. There is no way I can root for them in this story because it is just so wrong for me, even without the Finn or Mercedes factor. 

[camussie]

I hate Sam/Rachel more for the Finn lite factor than anything but since they obviously aren't going to address that I guess they needed to find some other obstacle for the two of them - queue Mercedes.  Why can't they just leave her out of it beyond her saying you know it bothers me but I am not going to stand in your way.  Toodles.  Using her to create an obstacle they must come over is awful

 

And don't even get me started on Sam teaching a class now.  Is Sheldon going to use his pull to get him that job too since we have been told over and over that is how Sam will end up in the NY area (never mind that RM & team have never understood there are actual suburbs to NY)

Edited February 6, 2015 by camussie

[Ann Mack]

I hate Sam/Rachel more for the Finn lite factor than anything but since they obviously aren't going to address that I guess they needed to find some other obstacle for the two of them - queue Mercedes.  Why can't they just leave her out of it beyond her saying you know it bothers me but I am not going to stand in your way.  Toodles.  Using her to create an obstacle they must come over is awful

 

I'm really not seeing Mercedes as an obstacle but more of the writers to try and "undo" all the things they had Sam and Mercedes say to each other in season 5. I think Sam keeps saying he is in love with Mercedes because for once maybe the writers recalled what came before. Hence why I also think that is why they are using her to say its okay for Rachel and Sam to date. NEVER in the history of Glee do I recall one of the ladies having to "give their blessing" for that incestuous bunch of friends to date, so what has changed? Oh they need to try and sell the audience see Mercedes is okay with it so can you all please get on board too. Plus it eliminates or at least tries to that Rachel is still such a self-absorbed bad friend. I really don't know any woman with any self-pride that would continue to pursue a man after being told numerous times he still feels more for someone else than you. Also, lets be real no woman is going to come back and bless the "love of her life" getting with her friend. So they get the satisfaction of killing 2 birds with one stone (Mercedes) 1. She didn't love Sam enough to fight for him (so those will say that don't want them together, so Mercedes is damned if she does or damned if she doesn't) and 2. She's okay with Sam & Rachel moving on so hopefully there is little to no backlash (however there are still lots of pissed off fans). Any way that is how I am interpreting this mess of a story line.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ann Mack

[tom87]

Not sure it tries to eliminate Rachel being a bad freind since most of the characters including Mercedes has been involved with friend's exes.    It come off as though the writers do not see that as a problem.  

 

But for her to be interested even after he says he is MORE interested in Mercedes than that just comes off sad, even if he is giving her mixed messages.  

 

The story line in the end does not benefit any of them. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by tom87

[indeed]

The story line in the end does not benefit any of them.

Which is a shame because, if they just had to have this pairing, they could have written an interesting story. Anyone with the tiniest bit of talent and five minutes could have outlined a decent story arc to follow that had some actual substance, unlike this dreck. True, I haven't seen the finished product, but I'm highly doubtful I'm going to look back on this season and go "Ahhhh!"

[camussie]

For me it is a little different with Sam/Mercedes.  They didn't just have a high school romance i.e. in the vein of Tina/Artie, Sam/Quinn, Sam/Santana. They were living together 5 months ago. I see that as a lot more serious than the standard high school romance which is why I think, as a friend, Rachel and Sam should make sure Mercedes is okay with it especially since Rachel herself called Sam/Mercedes soul-mates.  And no this isn't just a standard I hold Rachel to.  If, for example, Tina and Finn started dating after Finn/Rachel ended in season3/4 I would have expected both Tina and Finn to talk to Rachel about it beforehand.  

 

As for whether Mercedes is an obstacle perhaps that is the wrong word.  More like they see everything that happened with Sam/Mercedes last season is something that needs to be addressed but instead of truly addressing it they want to check the box so as to say see Mercedes is fine with it so you (the viewers) should be as well.  More than being fine with it she is giving it her blessing. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by camussie

[Ann Mack]

For me it is a little different with Sam/Mercedes.  They didn't just have a high school romance i.e. in the vein of Tina/Artie, Sam/Quinn, Sam/Santana. They were living together 5 months ago. I see that as a lot more serious than the standard high school romance which is why I think, as a friend, Rachel and Sam should make sure Mercedes is okay with it especially since she herself called Sam/Mercedes soul-mates.  And no this isn't just a standard I hold Rachel to.  If, for example, Tina and Finn started dating after Finn/Rachel ended in season3/4 I would have expected both Tina and Finn to talk to Rachel about it beforehand.  

 

True but it doesn't lessen my point at least I don't think it does that they are still using Mercedes to erase all of their love-filled proclamations and move Sam and Rachel ahead with hopefully no backlash by having Mercedes be the one to give them the nudge. Do any of us really believe that Rachel would not have continued to pursue Sam even if he relentlessly continued to tell her he still had feelings for Mercedes. She has already proven that regardless of what he says she has "feelings" and will not stop until she gets him. I might be exaggerating a little but I don't believe anything would have stopped Rachel. They are doing her, Sam and Mercedes a tremendous disservice with this writing. Poor Finn doesn't even get as much as a sigh from Rachel. I know she is trying to move on but damn!

[tom87]

I still laugh at the assertion the whole Rachel calling them soul mates means anything. The scene was clearly her teasing with Mercedes and Mercedes teasing back. 

 

Rachel did mention she hasn't dated and it has been over an year and 1/2 since he died.   Plus the whole they weren't even dating when he died. They have been broken up  for over 2 years now.  But I really thought the whole  point was to show her ready to move on and Sam if nothing else was used cause he was safe.  Now they seem to be sweeping that under the rug.

 

I still say Rachel and Sam do not end up together in th end,  but not sure what will happen with Sam and Mercedes.  The writers probably think it is romantic to have them come back from this after selfless Mercedes set Sam free bah, blah.

Edited February 6, 2015 by tom87

[fakeempress]

Well, from the spoilers Mercedes comes back to both bestow Rachel with a magic Broadway audition, and with her "blessing" for the Sam / Rachel romance. This seems to me using Mercedes as a prop. 

[Hookian]

Well, from the spoilers Mercedes comes back to both bestow Rachel with a magic Broadway audition, and with her "blessing" for the Sam / Rachel romance. This seems to me using Mercedes as a prop. 

 

Pretty much yeah and giving Samcedes closure. As Sam said "with a nudge or two it can grow into a big thing" so there's your foreshadowing of what Mercedes role in the episode is. 

 

I definitely believe Sam and Rachel is what they're building towards as ending up together. Also remember that this is like the second scene of the episode. The reason I say that is because Rachel's wearing the same clothes she wears in the choir room when re-introducing Mercedes, teachers lounge as well. This all takes place on the same day.

 

It's also obvious the date they blew off is "I'll Never Fall in Love Again", the opening of the episode.

[camussie]

I don't think it was clear Rachel was teasing Mercedes about her and Sam being soul-mates.  I thought she meant it at the time.  Obviously she doesn't now.  

 

True but it doesn't lessen my point at least I don't think it does that they are still using Mercedes to erase all of their love-filled proclamations and move Sam and Rachel ahead with hopefully no backlash by having Mercedes be the one to give them the nudge

 

 

Oh I agree with that. Using Mercedes as a prop would have been frustrating enough but to add Sam saying he still has feelings for her on top of that makes it all the more frustrating that she is the one to give the nudge.  I mean it could be Mercedes makes it clear to Sam she doesn't return those feelings but then what does that make Rachel - the back-plan?  On the other hand what if Mercedes still has those feelings but she gives Sam that push anyway?  Then we have her sacrificing her own happiness for Rachel.  

Edited February 6, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

Well, from the spoilers Mercedes comes back to both bestow Rachel with a magic Broadway audition, and with her "blessing" for the Sam / Rachel romance. This seems to me using Mercedes as a prop.

It's awful, one of the original characters reduced to nothing more than a prop. And on top of that the trope of a black woman being used as nothing more than a way for a white girl to get what she wants. And add to that the other trope of her being the only women left single because 'she don't need no man'.

[Ann Mack]

I don't think it was clear Rachel was teasing Mercedes about her and Sam being soul-mates.  I thought she meant it at the time.  Obviously she doesn't now.  

 

 

Oh I agree with that. Using Mercedes as a prop would have been frustrating enough but to add Sam saying he still has feelings for her on top of that makes it all the more frustrating that she is the one to give the nudge.  I mean it could be Mercedes makes it clear to Sam she doesn't return those feelings but then what does that make Rachel - the back-plan?  On the other hand what if Mercedes still has those feelings but she gives Sam that push anyway?  Then we have her sacrificing her own happiness for Rachel.  

 

Oh I'm sure it will be the latter but as Glee goes:

 

https://33.media.tumblr.com/e5c5d3fd6d4e166abf7d2a5b1902f436/tumblr_nj3h22Xdux1txrwdoo1_250.gif

 

A bit ironic isn't it. Still shaking my head at this dumb ass and disgusting story line!

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ann Mack

[SevenStars]

 Do any of us really believe that Rachel would not have continued to pursue Sam even if he relentlessly continued to tell her he still had feelings for Mercedes. She has already proven that regardless of what he says she has "feelings" and will not stop until she gets him. I might be exaggerating a little but I don't believe anything would have stopped Rachel. They are doing her, Sam and Mercedes a tremendous disservice with this writing. Poor Finn doesn't even get as much as a sigh from Rachel. I know she is trying to move on but damn!

 

Base on Rachel's past history in the whole Quinn/Finn/Rachel situation I would have agreed with this statement. But in the last episode Rachel is the one who stopped Sam from kissing her because she reminded him that two days ago he was telling her that he was still in love with Mercedes.

 

I think the reason Rachel is still considering a relationship with Sam is because despite the fact that Sam keeps telling her that loves/in love with Mercedes, he is still pursuing her. I blame Sue for this but Rachel doesn't know that Sue is the one manipulating Sam like this. Rachel thinks that Sam really does want her because he pursued her several times.

 

Personally, I wouldn't even think about dating a man who told me he couldn't date me because he was in love with another woman. That would have been the start and the end for me, no matter what he said or did later on. But I can understand why Rachel is still interested in having a relationship with him.

[Hookian]

They basically set Mercedes up as an obstacle for Samchel in episode 4. Now we're in episode 6 and Mercedes comes back and she's gonna be giving these two a push in the right direction, as suggested in the dialogue by Sam. She's probably gonna be shown to have moved on, is incredibly happy with her success and wants her two friends to be happy as well.

 

The reason I say Mercedes has moved on is well, based on the promo material and the clip we got she does not sound annoyed when asking Rachel what's going on between her and Sam. She looks like she's teasing her, like it doesn't bother her at all. Not to mention when Sam asked Mercedes if she was still a virgin she brushed him off like nothing. A roll of her eyes and everything.

 

I do think this episode will make it clear that Mercedes has moved on and just wants the same for Sam. Enter the "nudge" in the right direction.

 

Essentially Mercedes is gonna be used to tell the audience "hey see even she approves of this relationship and she doesn't like him anymore". 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Hookian

[tom87]

I don't think it was clear Rachel was teasing Mercedes about her and Sam being soul-mates.  I thought she meant it at the time.  Obviously she doesn't now.  

 

She was smiling and joking and then Mercedes was like well obviously.  Granted she said she knew they loved each other but the soulmate line was done in jest.  It was cute.

 

Base on Rachel's past history in the whole Quinn/Finn/Rachel situation I would have agreed with this statement. But in the last episode Rachel is the one who stopped Sam from kissing her because she reminded him that two days ago he was telling her that he was still in love with Mercedes.

 

I think the reason Rachel is still considering a relationship with Sam is because despite the fact that Sam keeps telling her that loves/in love with Mercedes, he is still pursuing her. I blame Sue for this but Rachel doesn't know that Sue is the one manipulating Sam like this. Rachel thinks that Sam really does want her because he pursued her several times.

 

Personally, I wouldn't even think about dating a man who told me he couldn't date me because he was in love with another woman. That would have been the start and the end for me, no matter what he said or did later on. But I can understand why Rachel is still interested in having a relationship with him.

Finn was giving  her very mixed messages as well. 

 

More Finn like stuff. .

[Hookian]

Base on Rachel's past history in the whole Quinn/Finn/Rachel situation I would have agreed with this statement. But in the last episode Rachel is the one who stopped Sam from kissing her because she reminded him that two days ago he was telling her that he was still in love with Mercedes.

 

I think the reason Rachel is still considering a relationship with Sam is because despite the fact that Sam keeps telling her that loves/in love with Mercedes, he is still pursuing her. I blame Sue for this but Rachel doesn't know that Sue is the one manipulating Sam like this. Rachel thinks that Sam really does want her because he pursued her several times.

 

Personally, I wouldn't even think about dating a man who told me he couldn't date me because he was in love with another woman. That would have been the start and the end for me, no matter what he said or did later on. But I can understand why Rachel is still interested in having a relationship with him.

 

Well I think that the reason Rachel is pursuing Sam has nothing to do with the hypnosis. The main reason I say this is because in the last episode she was completely creeped out by his hypnosis jabber. She's attracted to him because of things that make Sam himself. Like bobbing his head to the music, or recruiting Spencer for her. That stuff is what is attracting her to Sam. Plus even before the hypnosis she opened up to him about how he makes her feel safe and calms her. So there's plenty of reasons she's pursuing him that have nothing to do with hypnosis.

[SevenStars]

Finn was giving  her very mixed messages as well. 

 

More Finn like stuff. .

 

Yeah and this is why I never put the whole blame on the whole Rachel/Finn/Quinn situation on Rachel. Finn who should have known better was the one giving her mix signals, like he really likes her but was only with Quinn for popularity. I understood why Rachel decided to take her chance and pursued Finn and Quinn wasn't her friend, so whatever. 

[camussie]

I do think this episode will make it clear that Mercedes has moved on and just wants the same for Sam. Enter the "nudge" in the right direction.

Essentially Mercedes is gonna be used to tell the audience "hey see even she approves of this relationship and she doesn't like him anymore".

 

 

And?  That doesn't changed that SAM is telling Rachel in this episode he still has feelings for Mercedes, stronger than the ones he has for Rachel.  So does this mean he settles for Rachel because Mercedes has moved on?  I like Rachel and I want more for her than that.  On the other hand it could be that Mercedes still has those feelings but nudges Sam anyway and in that case she is sacrificing her own happiness for Rachel's.  

 

IOW neither option (Mercedes being over Sam and that is why he goes after Rachel or Mercedes not being over Sam but she nudges anyway) is a good set up for this story, even if it is just a temporary fling.  All three characters (yes even Sam who I loathe) deserve better.

 

Granted she said she knew they loved each other but the soulmate line was done in jest.  It was cute.

 

 

I disagree.  It was said lightheartedly but I never had the impression she didn't meant it then.  Obviously she doesn't now.

Edited February 6, 2015 by camussie

[Ann Mack]

Yeah and this is why I never put the whole blame on the whole Rachel/Finn/Quinn situation on Rachel. Finn who should have known better was the one giving her mix signals, like he really likes her but was only with Quinn for popularity. I understood why Rachel decided to take her chance and pursued Finn and Quinn wasn't her friend, so whatever. 

 

Only way to sum this whole story line up for me is ONE GREAT BIG GIGANTIC MESS DELIVERED TO US COURTESY OF THE MOST INCOMPETENT WRITERS EVER! Hell that goes for the entire season so far!!!

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ann Mack

[fakeempress]

 

Pretty much yeah and giving Samcedes closure. As Sam said "with a nudge or two it can grow into a big thing" so there's your foreshadowing of what Mercedes role in the episode is..,..Essentially Mercedes is gonna be used to tell the audience "hey see even she approves of this relationship and she doesn't like him anymore".

No, it will be using Mercedes as a prop to both Rachel's professional and personal storylines. This is the real meaning of all this. What you're saying is what the writer stans are thinking, for me there is a difference between what the writers want us to think, and what it really looks like all things considered.

 

It is also making Rachel - not exactly, but like - a "damsel in distress" when the character doesn't need that. Not the first time either they do that with her, for instance Kurt had to sign her up for the Funny Girl audition when she was wallowing (Rachel should've zeroed in on this opportunity like a hawk herself), the whole gang took breaks from their own lives to lift her spirits in Opening Night, now Mercedes for no reason at all suddenly arranges for her come-back audition, and says, go date Sam. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by fakeempress

[Cranberry]

she's gonna be giving these two a push in the right direction

 

"The right direction" is subjective. Personally, I wish someone would push Sam off a cliff.

[Hookian]

And?  That doesn't changed that SAM is telling Rachel in this episode he still has feelings for Mercedes, stronger than the ones he has for Rachel.  So does this mean he settles for Rachel because Mercedes has moved on?  I like Rachel and I want more for her than that.  On the other hand it could be that Mercedes still has those feelings but nudges Sam anyway and in that case she is sacrificing her own happiness for Rachel's.  

 

IOW neither option (Mercedes being over sam and that is why he goes after Rachel) or Mercedes not being over Sam but she nudges anyway is a good set up for this story, even if it is just a temporary fling.  All three characters (yes even Sam who I loathe) deserve better.

 

Well also let's not forget this is the likely the opening scene after the title of the episode. Seeing as the date they blew off is "I'll Never Fall in Love Again". Rachel's wearing the same outfit she wears in the choir room and teachers lounge scene before "Baby It's You" which is the second performance of the episode.

 

So the sequences are probably

 

"I'll Never Fall in Love Again"

This scene

Choir room and reintroduction of Mercedes

Mercedes and Rachel in the teachers lounge

"Baby It's You"

 

There's plenty of time for resolving Samcedes and giving them closure and also Mercedes pushing Sam and Rachel in the right direction. Going from the synopsis in the next episode there is no love triangle and if there were unresolved feelings on Mercedes part we would have an indication of that but we don't.

 

It's very likely that Mercedes is very happy in her life right now and that she's moved on from Sam. We'll know for sure in a bit.

 

As far as the whole he still has feelings for Mercedes thing well like people said the same thing happened with Finn w/ Quinn and even Will as well with his wife even though he had an interest in Emma. They're building Mercedes as the obstacle, like Terri and Quinn were. Is it smart? No but do they have time to not do it this way, hell no. 

No, it will be using Mercedes as a prop to both Rachel's professional and personal storylines. This is the real meaning of all this. What you're saying is what the writer stans are thinking, for me there is a difference between what the writers want us to think, and what it really looks like all things considered.

 

Look it's the same way the writers made Sam look naive about Beiste's condition when he of all people should know about it because he was friends with Unique. When the writers want to get a point across to the audience, they will take the lazy way out and ignore past canon.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Hookian

[jaytee1812]

It is also making Rachel - not exactly, but like - a "damsel in distress" character. Not the first time either they do that with her, for instance Kurt had to sign her up for the Funny Girl audition when she was wallowing (Rachel should've zeroed in on this opportunity like a hawk herself), the whole gang took breaks from their own lives to lift her spirits in Opening Night, now Mercedes for no reason at all suddenly arranges for her come-back audition, and says, go date Sam.

They do that a lot with Rachel, and it pisses me off. One it usually involves someone either sacrificing what they want, or being completely out of character. Two, since when did Rachel Berry need other people to prop her up, push her to achieve things?

[Hookian]

"The right direction" is subjective. Personally, I wish someone would push Sam off a cliff.

Well that's what the extended summary said. 

[camussie]

He says quite clearly in that clip his feelings for Mercedes are stronger than what he feels for Rachel.  If that is the case then Mercedes having to push Sam to date Rachel sure makes it look like Rachel is the back-up plan.  Sure there may be no unresolved feelings next episode but they just spent the first three of this "grand romance" where Sam has to be  hypnotized before he pursues Rachel, having Sam tell Rachel he still loves Mercedes and now having Sam tell Rachel his feelings for Mercedes are stronger than his feelings for Rachel.  

 

Why should I believe that all of that just disappears with Mercedes bestowing her blessing?  I don't care if Mercedes doesn't feel the same way.  The point is Sam has said twice now in 3 episodes he can''t date with Rachel because of the way he feels about Mercedes.  If the only thing that changes that stance is Mercedes says go for it dude I am over you anyway, how truly pathetic for Rachel.

Edited February 6, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

"The right direction" is subjective. Personally, I wish someone would push Sam off a cliff.

All those women and not one of them has tried it.

[Hookian]

He says quite clearly in that clip his feelings for Mercedes are stronger than what he feels for Rachel.  If that is the case then Mercedes having to push Sam to date Rachel sure makes it look like Rachel is the back-up plan.  Sure there may be no unresolved feelings next episode but they just spent the first three of this "grand romance" having Sam being hypnotized before he pursues rachel, having Sam tell Rachel he still loves Mercedes and now having Sam tell Rachel his feelings for Mercedes are stronger than his feelings for Rachel.  

 

Why should I believe that all of that just disappears with Mercedes bestowing her blessing?  I don't care if Mercedes doesn't feel the same way.  The point is Sam has said twice now in 3 episodes he can''t date with Rachel because of the way he feels about Mercedes.  If the only thing that changes that stance is Mercedes says go for it dude, how truly pathetic for Rachel.

 

Yes but this is the beginning of the episode. There's likely much more to the story then we realize. Let's not forget Sam has a solo near the very end of the episode that is likely about this whole situation and may bring to light stronger feelings then he's willing to accept for Rachel.

 

I agree with you but I also understand that they have to take as many shortcuts as possible because they have a very limited amount of episodes. It's like with Wemma in S1 F13. Will had just left his wife and he's kissing Emma and that was supposed to be the end of the series. The show was only granted 13 episodes to tell the story they wanted to tell. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Hookian

[jaytee1812]

Yes but this is the beginning of the episode. There's likely much more to the story then we realize. Let's not forget Sam has a solo near the very end of the episode that is likely about this whole situation and may bring to light stronger feelings then he's willing to accept for Rachel.

 

I agree with you but I also understand that they have to take as many shortcuts as possible because they have a very limited amount of episodes. It's like with Wemma in S1 F13. Will had just left his wife and he's kissing Emma and that was supposed to be the end of the series. The show was only granted 13 episodes to tell the story they wanted to tell.

It doesn't matter if this take 5 minutes or five episodes. It's pathetic. I mean I loathe Sam but even by his standards this storyline is awful.

[tom87]

They do that a lot with Rachel, and it pisses me off. One it usually involves someone either sacrificing what they want, or being completely out of character. Two, since when did Rachel Berry need other people to prop her up, push her to achieve things?

And 90% of the time she doesn't even ask for it. So she is not even trying to get something from others they just give it her.  She asks Mercedes to come help with the  club not anything else.

 

Giving her Prom Queen  still is one of the  dumbest moments.  She never said she wanted to be Prom Queen even.

 

I like first started liking Rachel becasue she went for it.    Now she needs help to even get through a full piano lesson.

Edited February 6, 2015 by tom87

[camussie]

No.   Sam still having feelings for Mercedes as of this episode is the exact opposite of taking a short-cut.  It is throwing an obstacle in the way to draw this mess out and in the process is making them that much less rootable.  I am one who wanted Rachel to move forward this season and I don't see how  accepting the scraps of affection that Finn lite gives her is her moving forward.  

 

You claim that they have been planning on doing Sam/Rachel since last season and Sam/Mercedes was just some place to park Sam until they were ready to pull that trigger.  Okay if that is the case the short cut would have been Sam/Mercedes saying  we gave it one more shot and we clearly aren't meant to be together.  Instead they ended them last season with them declaring their love to each other and how they are continuing with Sam still having feelings for Mercedes right up until the second he starts dating Rachel.  

Edited February 6, 2015 by camussie

[Cranberry]

Yeah, even if I liked the idea of Sam/Rachel, I wouldn't like this storyline, because it does a disservice to both characters. I don't buy that they had to do it this way because of lack of time, either. They had 13 episodes in which to build this up, and they could have done so without the use of hypnosis at the start (it was totally unnecessary; they could have easily done sweet moments at the piano or on a "non-date" without throwing that in) and without having Sam state, at least twice, that he's still in love with someone else. It's been long enough that they could have just had him say he was feeling low for a while but got over Mercedes, and it would have been much more believable than what they're doing. They could have given Mercedes a great new guy, too, to really sell the idea that she's over Sam.

[fakeempress]

And 90% of the time she doesn't even ask for it. So she is not even trying to get something from others they just give it her.  She asks Mercedes to come help with the  club not anything else.

 

Giving her Prom Queen  still is one of the  dumbest moments.  She never said she wanted to be Prom Queen even.

 

I like first started liking Rachel becasue she went for it.    Now she needs help to even get through a full piano lesson.

Exactly. It's just dumb - and dumbing down - writing for a character who doesn't really need that to go from point A to point B, resulting in "special snowflake" treatment - again with no need for it. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by fakeempress

[indeed]

It's like with Wemma in S1 F13. Will had just left his wife and he's kissing Emma and that was supposed to be the end of the series.

It's nothing like Wemma. That I could buy.

Yes, they only have these last 13 episodes to get the Samchel rolling--and they wasted/mishandled (IMO) most of the time they've had already. Spoilers don't make it sound any better. We'll see...

ETA:

Sam state, at least twice, that he's still in love with someone else.

Methinks he doth protest too much. You know what that means! LOL Edited February 6, 2015 by indeed

[jaytee1812]

They way they are doing this makes Sam look like a douche, Rachel look pathetic and Mercedes look like a pushover. So everlasting love, glee style!

[KatWay]

 

She's attracted to him because of things that make Sam himself. Like bobbing his head to the music, or recruiting Spencer for her. That stuff is what is attracting her to Sam. Plus even before the hypnosis she opened up to him about how he makes her feel safe and calms her.

 

So what she finds attractive in Sam is that he's enthusiastic and goofy about music and leadership material...and that he grounds her....gosh, I wish I knew which relationship of hers this reminds me of.

 

If they are endgame, I might just have to write a fanfic where an old Rachel keeps calling him Finn. And old, still dumb as a rock Sam starts believing he actually is Finn. I mean, they dated all the same girls (though Finn didn't quite achieve Sam's grand total), liked the same stuff and had the same careers. Now how about that for a flash forward?

Edited February 6, 2015 by KatWay

[Hookian]

It's nothing like Wemma. That I could buy.

Yes, they only have these last 13 episodes to get the Samchel rolling--and they wasted/mishandled (IMO) most of the time they've had already. Spoilers don't make it sound any better. We'll see...

 

A lot had an issue with it because it was "too soon" and as he said he just left his wife. But they had a very limited amount of episodes, so what choice did they have?

[Ann Mack]

So what she finds attractive in Sam is that he's enthusiastic and goofy about music and leadership material...and that he grounds her....gosh, I wish I knew which relationship of hers this reminds me of.

 

If they are endgame, I might just have to write a fanfic where an old Rachel keeps calling him Finn. And old, still dumb as a rock Sam starts believing he actually is Finn. I mean, they dated all the same girls (though Finn didn't quite achieve Sam's grand total), liked the same stuff and had the same careers. Now how about that for a flash forward?

 

Well that's even more pathetic that Rachel is looking for a Finn like replacement to date. I still want to know where the feelings Sam is having for Rachel are coming from unless I'm mistaken everything he has said or done for or to her has been at the guidance of Sue while he was hypnotized, did I miss something?

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ann Mack

[indeed]

This isn't the same thing. They've had five seasons if Sam/Rachel was end game. Even if they just pulled it out of their arses, this isn't "oh, we don't know if our show will be renewed--quick, toss in some closure just in case!" It doesn't take 13 episodes to write a convincing love story. And there will always be dissatisfied viewers.

[Hookian]

Why is Sam teaching Health BTW? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to teach P.E? There's a big difference between Health and P.E.

 

Well this is the same show that had Will be a spanish teacher and win teacher of the year twice despite not knowing a single word of the language. Those poor students.

[indeed]

Why is Sam teaching Health BTW? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to teach P.E? There's a big difference between Health and P.E.

No, it would not make more sense since he isn't qualified to teach ANYTHING. But Sam will probably win Teacher of the Year at this rate.

[Myrna123]

Here's my thought for the day:  Are RIB so heinous that when their ideas are floated every other human being remotely connected with Glee is too terrified to suggest that their ideas are horrendous?  Or are they so tediously insufferable that every other human being remotely connected with Glee relishes how unbearably stupid it will make RIB look when the ideas play out on screen?

[Hookian]

No, it would not make more sense since he isn't qualified to teach ANYTHING. But Sam will probably win Teacher of the Year at this rate.

 

Well at least now this shines a light on my theory that he will get a head coaching position by the end of the series in another place without having a single shred of an education. It's Glee, they don't use logic on this show. After 6 years you think some would catch on by now. 

 

Besides who needs an education when you have the word of a National winning Football coach sending videos of you coaching to other schools across the country and miraculously the one interested is the one where everybody else is gonna be including the girl he likely will fall for. In an imaginary school no less.

 

Hey it's Glee. They wanted us to believe Artie could ride around the top of a fountain in New York with the rest of the Glee kids right? 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Hookian

[LydiaMoon1]

trattray, on 06 Feb 2015 - 3:52 PM, said:

    They do that a lot with Rachel, and it pisses me off. One it usually involves someone either sacrificing what they want, or being completely out of character. Two, since when did Rachel Berry need other people to prop her up, push her to achieve things?

And 90% of the time she doesn't even ask for it. So she is not even trying to get something from others they just give it her.  She asks Mercedes to come help with the  club not anything else.

 

Giving her Prom Queen  still is one of the  dumbest moments.  She never said she wanted to be Prom Queen even.

 

I like first started liking Rachel becasue she went for it.    Now she needs help to even get through a full piano lesson.

Edited by tom87, 19 minutes ago.

Since Prom Queen, seems to me that 90% of the time Rachel has been written as someone who has to be propped up.  How many episode descriptions have been written about the need to "rally around Rachel"?  Geez.  That girl's had more rallies than Wall Street.  If she needs this damn much help all time, somebody needs to get her a keeper.

[camussie]

Regarding people not "catching on."  Seems to me that most people here get that Glee has no real world logic or worse any internal logic for their stories.  As an example about what I mean by internal logic: In season 4 when Finn wanted a career as a choir director it was clear he needed a college education to be one.  Using the logic Glee itself set out, Sam wanting a career as a head football coach should require an education.   Not to say that they will write him requiring an education n matter where he ends up (I still think it will be somewhere in Ohio) but rather they should given the parameters they themselves set out.  

 

Criticizing that Glee may not follow its own internal logic, let alone reality, is not the same as not understanding that RM and team will do whatever they please no matter how dumb it is.  

 

Besides who needs an education when you have the word of a National winning Football coach sending videos of you coaching to other schools across the country and miraculously the one interested is the one where everybody else is gonna be including the girl he likely will fall for. In an imaginary school no less.

 

 

To be clear there are absolutely no spoilers about this and for it to happen it would have to mean that RM and team realize there are suburbs to the 5 boroughs, something they have never acknowledged before.  

Edited February 6, 2015 by camussie

[Cranberry]

I was just about to say... any more posts that strongly imply that posters here are stupid/unobservant are getting deleted (after a short grace period in which the poster can reconsider their word choices), because I'm tired of having to do these moderator announcements for the exact same issues every few days.

[SevenStars]

And you would think after you posting here a while you would catch on that being condescending and dismissive of your fellow posters has gone over like a lead balloon.  As for people not "catching on" seems to me that most people here get that Glee has no real world logic or even worse any internal logic for their stories.  And what i mean by internal logic is in season 4 if Finn wanted a career as a choir director it was clear he needed a college education to do so.  Using the logic glee set out, Sam wanting a career as a head football coach should require some education as well.  

 

Criticizing that Glee may not follow even their own internal logic is not the same as not understanding that RM and team can't write a multi-season series for crud.  

 

Yeah, it's not that I don't get what RIB are doing. It just that I think they are being stupid in the way they are going about telling their stories. 

[jaytee1812]

Here's my thought for the day:  Are RIB so heinous that when their ideas are floated every other human being remotely connected with Glee is too terrified to suggest that their ideas are horrendous?  Or are they so tediously insufferable that every other human being remotely connected with Glee relishes how unbearably stupid it will make RIB look when the ideas play out on screen?

I think it's like The Emperors' New Clothes. They're surrounded by people who tell them how awesome they are. I suspect anyone who doesn't tell them that, doesn't last very long.

[Ann Mack]

My biggest problem with Glee and this is my opinion is that they have never treated any of them although fictional characters with any realness of being a person. Although fictional most shows wants it audience to connect with the characters (I know sometimes unfortunately some people begin to believe that fictional characters are real but that I think is a small portion of stans and fans). Glee however treats their characters as objects or pawns with no real value to impact a sustained growth which there by fails to give them any growth or substance. Their actions are dictated by how the writers want to move a specific story line plot along. Consistency, accountability and continuity are words that have NEVER graced the Glee writers room! Glee is by no means in the same category as "Friends" but there you had a multi-cast of talented actors just like Glee. But with the exception that they let them grow, they let them learn, fail, rise again and do it all so the audience could support and laugh along the way with them. It's like Glee more or less wants you to laugh "at" and not "with" their characters.

 

So this final season is just another example of them squandering the potential of a talented cast to bring rubbish to occupy an hour of television. They have presented no one to root for, no closure for the majority of its original cast, introduction of new characters for whom there is little to no reason to get attached too, refurbished stories from seasons 1, 2, 3 well hell almost every previous season and it seems the show will be ending with another sectional. I really wish the show had some insight as to what they could have done. So they read a few items of what fans wanted (according to Ryan Murphy) really, seems like they went into a few forums, trolled a few sites and ran with whatever bunch were being the most pissy about what they wanted to see happen. Because I really don't think most fans wanted what they are getting. Its sort of like these damn count downs I don't know how many of you participated or even saw them because I surely didn't. 

 

That said all I can do is wish this cast much success afterwards I think they have paid enough dues in humiliation so far. That's not to say that they will not be grateful because even with all its faults Glee has launched some of them into a bigger spotlight. But in my opinion it still is a spotlight that came with a cost!

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ann Mack

[spiritof76]

So let me get this right. We are how many episodes into this 13 episode season and Sam is still telling anyone who will listen that he has very strong feelings for Mercedes? Yet in the very next breath, he tells Rachel he loves her? And she says it back? So much for taking it slow this time. I fail to see how this is going to end up being any different then any other relationship Sam has had where he was declaring his love right away. Whatever, this should be good.

 

I'm at the point where I wish they would have just left the Samcedes thing dead and gone. Yes, I was a Samcedes shipper.The only couple I really shipped on this show, after I swore I never would, because you know......Glee. But Sam hadn't gotten super dumb yet, and I thought they might be going somewhere interesting with it. And there actually were some pretty good moments. But then after Season 3 and Mercedes went to LA they literally went all of Season 4 without mentioning them. Even when Sam started dating Brittany. They had Brittany deal with her old relationship with Santana, but it was like Sam got Mercedes amnesia. And yeah, it ticked me off, but I had pretty much stopped watching Season 4, so I got over it. And I really didn't start watching Season 5 again, until they made the shift to NY. I had no expectations that they would mention Samcedes again. I mean it was done. But lo and behold, not only did they mention it, they actually devoted a good bit of story to it. And I wasn't even that torn up when they had the break up because a) I thought they handled it maturely and b) Mercedes was one of the only one of those fool New Directions NOT to jump all over marriage, even though Sam sounded like he would have been down. (Especially if t meant sex). I wanted to throw her a parade just for that. And they didn't break up made at each other, or hating each other. They literally broke up declaring their love to each other. That to me is a really strange road to take, if you had plans to sell one of them in another, potentially endgame love story. My hunch is, that they didn't have that plan or any plan. They seem to write and come up with stories as they go. 

 

I just hate what this does to Mercedes.Her use as a racial trope and prop has been very well outlined here. These spoilers just make me wish they would leave her out of it. Let Sam and Rachel find true love without her help. (It's not like anybody is trying to help her.