Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Starfish35]

Well that might be interesting :)

[Miss Dee]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Plus she and Mick can turn any room they're in into a sauna...

Sounds like a viable ship to me. I'm in.

[Starfish35]

Constantine will be back....

Exclusive: 'Legends of Tomorrow' Will Bring Back John Constantine Later This Season

Quote

Matt Ryan's John Constantine, who appeared on this week's 2018 premiere of DC's Legends of Tomorrow, will make his return to the time-travel superhero drama in March, ComicBook.com has learned.

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Warner Bros. Television has confirmed for ComicBook.com that Ryan will return for the fifteenth episode of the season, titled "Necromancing the Stone," which is set to air in five weeks.

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So while this image...

...accompanied a "season finale" piece of teaser text, that is no guarantee that Constantine will appear in the finale. It is theoretically possible, but Warner Bros. confirmed only "Necromancing the Stone," and not the finale.

[lurker22]

Press release for Episode 13 "No Country For Old Dads"

Quote

TEAMWORK — When Damien (Neal McDonough) and Nora Darhrk (guest star Courtney Ford) take Ray hostage they force him to try and fix the Fire Totem, but Ray (Brandon Routh) tries to use the power struggle between them to his advantage. Ray and Nora find themselves working together in 1960’s East Germany in order to fix the totem, but soon come face to face with a younger and deadlier version of Damien Dahrk. Meanwhile, Sara (Caity Lotz) seems to be taking positive steps in her personal life. Dominc Purcell, Maisie Richardson-Sellers, Nick Zano, Tala Ashe and Keiynan Lonsdale also stars. Viet Nguyen directed the episode written by Keto Shimizu & James Eagan (#313). Original airdate 3/5/2018.

All the totems are coming together. They find the earth totem in Ep 12, and now the fire totem in Ep 13. Now that just leaves the mystery 6th totem.

I wonder if somehow Nora remembers Ray, and starts to consider working against her father. There's already a power struggle between them, so it seems like all is already not well between the Darhrks.

I guess Sara's life is going to start to come together only for Mallus to destroy it later.

I thought this would be the Wild West/Jonah Hex episode, but it doesn't sound like it. I wonder if it would be the "Amazing Grace" episode.

Edited February 16, 2018 by lurker22

[Sakura12]

I really hope Sara's storyline until the Mallus take over is not about her love life. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Sakura12

[lurker22]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I really hope Sara's storyline until the Mallus take over is not about her love life. 

Me too.

Maybe Sara sees a therapist to unload all the emotions she's kept locked up in a box so far - Stein's death, Jax leaving, Laurel's death, Leonard's death, her own deaths, people who died by her hands, etc (wow, is there a character who's dealt with more deaths than her?). But who am I kidding, it's probably about Ava. Though I wouldn't mind if Sara talks to Ava about this.

[tarotx]

The only issue I have with love interest development is if they are going to constantly pair Sara with Ava. That is why I worry. Sara rarely deals with her issues which sucks but it's the norm.  I don't want Sara stuck on an island. The show works because of the different pairings. Everybody interacts.

Edited February 17, 2018 by tarotx
Erase repeated words and add a couple missing ones.

[Miss Dee]

I suspect these writers might adhere to the Mike Schur school of philosophy when it comes to dealing with romantic couples. Look at how they handle the bromances - people clamoring for more Mick/Ray or Ray/Nate because they don't go to those wells too often. That's what Mike Schur did with Jake and Amy on Brooklyn 99. Fans were worried that the couple would eat the show, but instead they use them sparingly and keep the drama to a bare minimum when they are together. Of course that's a comedy...but really, so is Legends.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Miss Dee

[lurker22]

The thing with Sara is everyone she gets close to leaves. Kendra, Leonard, Jax, Stein (they have developed more of a father-daughter relationship this past 2 seasons), even Rip, they're all gone now. I don't think there's anyone Sara is close to on the ship. Even of the original 3 left, she's had like only 2 one-on-one scenes with Ray, and she seldom interacts with Mick (though I thought it's gotten slightly better this season). Sara also tends to interact more with the guest star of the week, e.g. Constantine, Jonah Hex, who also leave at the end of the episode. Like Caity said, Sara needs a friend.

[Sakura12]

Interesting that they are going to the Old West for the finale. Are they going to wrap up the Mallus storyline before then? 

 

[Miss Dee]

Maybe John Noble-as-Mallus is a red herring, and the Big Bad for this season is either Sara or Ray.

That would be a bitter callback to the second or third episode, when the Legends all laughed at the thought of facing a new enemy possibly being worse than facing Savage or the Legion.

[johntfs]

11 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Maybe John Noble-as-Mallus is a red herring, and the Big Bad for this season is either Sara or Ray.

That would be a bitter callback to the second or third episode, when the Legends all laughed at the thought of facing a new enemy possibly being worse than facing Savage or the Legion.

I can't imagine any version of Sara (aside from the one from Doomworld) willingly using Damien Darhk for anything.  As for Ray, figure his version of being a Big Bad would be as someone in charge of Zari's 2046 - some kind of dystopia/evil utopia based on tech.  He's not going to demon-possess children.  I think the best candidate for a "Mallus we've already met" would be Rip (he's so obsessed with his enemy that he becomes him) or maybe Gary (who gets dropped into a "time hole" or something and evolves into Mallus).

[wingster55]

21 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Maybe John Noble-as-Mallus is a red herring, and the Big Bad for this season is either Sara or Ray.

 

Ray? 

[Miss Dee]

I know, @wingster55 - it's just a weird feeling I have. They've been emphasizing Ray's goodness and light so much this season, and spoilers have Ray feeling guilty about something in Ep 12 and then having to work with Dhark and Nora in Ep 13. And then I think about them all laughing about what could possibly be worse than what they've already faced with the Legion and Savage - I don't think that moment was put in there by accident. Having their sweetest member break bad (either through psychological manipulation or magic) so they have to turn on him would break their collective hearts (and ours)...like watching Frodo break and give into The Ring. All this with Sara could be a red herring.

I joked on Reddit that in Ep 13 Ray will get Luke Skywalkered and find out Damien is his real father.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Miss Dee

[darkestboy]

Both Jonah Hex and possibly John Constantine back for the finale?

I wonder who else we can expect, return wise.

[Sakura12]

23 hours ago, johntfs said:

I can't imagine any version of Sara (aside from the one from Doomworld) willingly using Damien Darhk for anything.  As for Ray, figure his version of being a Big Bad would be as someone in charge of Zari's 2046 - some kind of dystopia/evil utopia based on tech.  He's not going to demon-possess children.  I think the best candidate for a "Mallus we've already met" would be Rip (he's so obsessed with his enemy that he becomes him) or maybe Gary (who gets dropped into a "time hole" or something and evolves into Mallus).

If Sara becomes Mallus' vessel she's not the one making the choice to work with Darkh. 

[wingster55]

12 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

I know, @wingster55 - it's just a weird feeling I have. They've been emphasizing Ray's goodness and light so much this season, and spoilers have Ray feeling guilty about something in Ep 12 and then having to work with Dhark and Nora in Ep 13. And then I think about them all laughing about what could possibly be worse than what they've already faced with the Legion and Savage - I don't think that moment was put in there by accident. Having their sweetest member break bad (either through psychological manipulation or magic) so they have to turn on him would break their collective hearts (and ours)...like watching Frodo break and give into The Ring. All this with Sara could be a red herring.

I joked on Reddit that in Ep 13 Ray will get Luke Skywalkered and find out Damien is his real father.

Interesting...though I can't imagine Brandon pulling it off. Then again I definitely can't see Caity pulling it off either. Hope to be wrong. 

[Miss Dee]

Eh, I'm probably wrong. My theories usually are.

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

If Sara becomes Mallus' vessel she's not the one making the choice to work with Darkh. 

If Sara becomes Mallus' vessel, then Sara isn't the Big Bad, that's still Mallus.

5 hours ago, wingster55 said:

Interesting...though I can't imagine Brandon pulling it off. Then again I definitely can't see Caity pulling it off either. Hope to be wrong. 

Routh played an excellent bad guy in Chuck, so I think he could pull it off if he needed to, as could Caity.  There are some very talented actors on this show.

[tarotx]

Amazing Grace Episode 3.14 description

IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC —  When the Legends learn that a mysterious tragedy destroyed Memphis in 1954, thus eradicating the birthplace of rock and roll, they embark on their most important mission – to save music.  Nate (Nick Zano) is excited to show Amaya why music is important to him and he is surprised it leads to a rock legend as well as the sixth and final totem, the Death Totem.  Meanwhile, Zari (Tala Ashe) helps their newest member try to adjust to the team. Caity Lotz, Brandon Routh, Dominic Purcell, Maise Richardson-Sellers and Keiynan Lonsdale also star. David Geddes directed the episode written by Matthew Maala & Tyrone B. Carter (#314).  Original airdate 3/12/2018.

http://dclegendstv.com/2018/02/22/legends-of-tomorrow-spoilers-amazing-grace/

[Miss Dee]

*gasp* Mick gets a chance to save Elvis! Didn't he want to do that in an earlier episode?

[Sakura12]

The Death Totem, is that Sara's. Lol.

[johntfs]

24 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

*gasp* Mick gets a chance to save Elvis! Didn't he want to do that in an earlier episode?

Who else wants Mick to save Elvis by dressing up as Elvis?

[lurker22]

There was a quick shot of a storyboard (is that what it's called?) scene in Ep 15 that says Sara touches a totem that is kept in a box. No idea if that scene makes it to the screen, but who out of the Legends is most suited to use the Death totem? Maybe only people who have died before can use it? Maybe that's why Mallus is so interested in Sara. There's only a rare few who can wield the power of the Death totem.

[Sakura12]

I wonder if it's unknown totem because it's only visible to those that have died and come back. Maybe that's why Sara touches it no one else can see it. 

[Miss Dee]

So it's a Thestral stone?

That's my head canon until we find out otherwise.

[Sakura12]

14 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

So it's a Thestral stone?

That's my head canon until we find out otherwise.

I was thinking of Harry Potter when I thought of it. Amaya said she never heard of the sixth totem and Constantine didn't know about either. 

Having it be death does make sense if it's Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Spirit/Life and Death. 

[lurker22]

There's a spoiler about Episode 12, where Sara chose to sit out the mission because she was going to go on a date with Ava. Later, she decided to stay on that date when Gideon called to tell her about the team and pirates, and only left when she saw the Waverider crashing where she was. Well... all I have to say is I'm disappointed in Sara if she's putting aside her captain duties for a crush. This doesn't make me want to root for Sara/Ava at all.

[Sakura12]

That's what I worried about, them making it about the Sara and Ava romance and having her ignore the team. 

[lurker22]

Yeah, and right after an episode where Zari called her a good captain too.

[Sakura12]

They had the Ray/Kendra drama take up the show in season 1 and the Nate/Amaya drama in season. They've toned them down a bit this season but they are still messing up missions to have sex. Nate I could see since he's a frat boy, but Amaya should be more mature. So whenever she's with Nate I'm not a fan. I would rather see her deal with Kuasa and her destiny then him. 

I can see Sara saying she needs so time off to go on a date with Ava while the team handles a mission. But Sara would NEVER ditch her team if they were in trouble. Ava's already making me miss Pirate Captain Lance she better not change Sara's personality to fit their romance. With my luck they will probably have Ava be the one to "convince" Sara to help her team since she's all nice and sweet now. 

[lurker22]

That's the second time now Nate and Amaya put the mission on hold to have sex. I expected better of Amaya, since now with Jax gone, I see her as the one most qualified to stand in for Sara as Captain.

The pirates came on board the Waverider and interrupted Sara and Ava's make-out session, so they have to deal with them.

I read a funny speculation somewhere that Mallus manipulated Ava in the Beebo episode and is using her to distract Sara from being the Captain. I think this is a joke, but that would actually explain why Ava's personality changed suddenly in Ep 9, lol.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

But Sara would NEVER ditch her team if they were in trouble. Ava's already making me miss Pirate Captain Lance she better not change Sara's personality to fit their romance.

I`m bummed as hell to miss out on Pirate!Sara. Any era where Sara could do some epic sword-play, like the Samurai episode, the character should not sit out. 

This better not become a habit. I want the team together on missions. Not taking valuable time out of the fun time travel plots for some romantic side thing.  

[Sakura12]

If they are going to make Sara and Ava a thing, I would rather Ava be with them on their missions (and not have sex during them like Nate and Amaya, these are adults that should have self control). I wouldn't mind seeing them fighting pirates together. Then when they want to show them together, we can see them sitting around talking in the main office or going into Sara's room at the end of the episode or waking up in bed in the beginning of the episode. 

[Starfish35]

Yeah, I agree with everyone else that I'm NOT wanting to see Sara sit out missions to spend time with Ava.  

Based on the pics for 313, I'm wondering if Wally and Rip don't actually appear in the next episode.  Or maybe just for a moment like they did this week.  It kind of looks like they don't actually meet up with the team until 313.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, lurker22 said:

That's the second time now Nate and Amaya put the mission on hold to have sex.

And this time, they were wearing jumpsuits.  I kept thinking how long the process of disrobing and redressing would take.

[Sakura12]

That's another reason I can't really see Nate and Amaya as some great love story, their relationship seems to be just about dinky tickling (Gideon has some interesting terms for sex. Lol) Have they had any meaningful conversations besides Nate telling Amaya what he wants her to do about her family? 

[tarotx]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah, I agree with everyone else that I'm NOT wanting to see Sara sit out missions to spend time with Ava.  

Based on the pics for 313, I'm wondering if Wally and Rip don't actually appear in the next episode.  Or maybe just for a moment like they did this week.  It kind of looks like they don't actually meet up with the team until 313.

Rip and Wally supposedly get wasted on Cisco's Flash drink. 

When Ray gets Kidnapped at the end if the episode I hope Sara feels guilty and responsible. If she does I'll forgive them for this but I'm already hating it.

[lurker22]

From SpoilerTV: Legends of Tomorrow - Episode 3.18 - The Good, The Bad and The Cuddly (Season Finale)

Is Beebo coming back?

We didn't get the title for Episode 17, did we?

[Miss Dee]

YAAASS BEEBO.

[johntfs]

15 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

That's another reason I can't really see Nate and Amaya as some great love story,

Does it have to be some great love story?  Can't it just be a regular love story?  You know, two people who like each other, like getting naked with each other and maybe wind up together?  I don't need every romance to be the "superest-duperest-ooperest-pooperest-most-greatest love in the history of forever!"

17 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah, I agree with everyone else that I'm NOT wanting to see Sara sit out missions to spend time with Ava.

Not everyone else.  If Mick can sit out a mission to watch a football game, Sara's allowed to go on a fucking date once in a while.  If the rest of the Legends could handle Gorilla Grodd and the Vietnam War without Sara, they can probably handle 16th century pirates, too.

Edited February 24, 2018 by johntfs

[Featherhat]

Beebo will probably be the key to defeating Mallus, as he should be. 

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Does it have to be some great love story?  Can't it just be a regular love story?  You know, two people who like each, like getting naked with each other and maybe wind up together?  I don't need every romance to be the "superest-duperest-ooperest-pooperest-most-greatest love in the history of forever!"

Well if he does end up being Kuasa and Mari's grandfather, as this episode was starting to hint, then yes, it should be a little bit epic because he'd have to be willing to go to 1940's Zambesi and face possible murder there if they can't hack history some how. If they just like getting naked together for now, that's fine but the show waffles on this a lot and regardless neither they (or Sara ala Constantine) should make a habit of getting naked *during* a mission. And the Arrowverse in generally usually has just a few settings with romance. Epic, super casual, stall for different pairing or broken up and never mentioned again/mistake arc. And IMHO, whilst I can see that Nate likes her, Amaya barely gives off enough interest most of the time for even "casual hook up". 

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Not everyone else.  If Mick can sit out a mission to watch a football game, Sara's allowed to go on a fucking date once in a while.  If the rest of the Legends could handle Gorilla Grodd and the Vietnam War without Sara, they can probably handle 16th century pirates, too.

But if she knows they have a problem and doesn't respond because she's on a date, that's wildly OOC. Mick and Sara are two very different characters and used very differently within the show. The reason Sara wasn't there for Grodd was because she was in a coma (so CL could film the Xover) if she just chooses not to that's different. And plus, yeah as a personal preference I don't like Avalance enough to think it's worth sacrificing Pirate!Sara for, even if Sara does deserve some companionship and supposedly *she* likes Ava. 

[Sakura12]

Since I had to deal with Nate moping about earlier in the season I expected their relationship to be about more then just sex. If it was just sex he should not have been that upset about their break up. 

I said Sara can sit out on a mission to go on a date, I have no problem with that.  I DO have a problem with Sara ignoring her team is in trouble to stay on a date with Ava. Sara is not Mick, she would not leave her team when they need her. 

[lurker22]

Hopefully Gideon didn't call Sara to say the team was in trouble (I don't think they were in trouble at that point yet), just a mission status update that they're now posing as pirates. Since they're not in trouble, Sara stayed on the date. Maybe it was even Sara who had Gideon call to give her regular updates. It would make me feel better about Sara sitting out the mission.

On a separate note, I hope that they show Sara using Amy Pemberton's picture as Gideon's avatar on her phone.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, lurker22 said:

Hopefully Gideon didn't call Sara to say the team was in trouble (I don't think they were in trouble at that point yet), just a mission status update that they're now posing as pirates. Since they're not in trouble, Sara stayed on the date. Maybe it was even Sara who had Gideon call to give her regular updates. It would make me feel better about Sara sitting out the mission.

On a separate note, I hope that they show Sara using Amy Pemberton's picture as Gideon's avatar on her phone.

If they do that I hope they have a little fun with it where Ava sees it and asks who that is and Sara tells her Gideon. Ava: "Your ship?" Sara: puts her hands up "she choose that form, not me" 

Maybe Sara asks Gideon if she thinks they can handle it and she give her a 70% chance as an answer and Sara then decides to let them handle it and have Gideon call when that percentage drops to 50%. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Sakura12

[Sakura12]

Wally to Rip: "Sounds like your a bit of douche, no offence" Lol

I wonder how Rip will feel when he finds out his two favorite proteges are dating. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Sakura12

[wingster55]

So once again the Arrowverse is limiting "geniuses" to people in STEM. That's infuriating...as is the writers ignoring the fact that Wally was studying engineering. 

Already off to a bad start for Wally. 

[Sakura12]

Or they could be showing that team Flash didn't appreciate his genius and the Legends will. 

[wingster55]

Referring to those 4 as geniuses and then follow up with why he didn't fit in insinuates that he doesn't view himself as one and that point isn't refuted. Furthermore it's also saying that Iris and Joe aren't geniuses or intelligent because they aren't scientists or doctors (and knowing these writers also because they're black). 

[Sakura12]

That could be a plot for him, lots of people have low self esteem even if they are a genius. That could also be pointed out that Iris and Joe do fit with Team Flash while he always felt like an outsider. Which is what the Legends are so they always have to point out the outsiderness of the character joining. Rip basically told all the Legends they were worthless losers and that's why he recruited them. They all had special skills and they all felt lost. Wally was lost on the Flash because those writers decided they had no idea what to do for him. But since you already decided to be negative about Wally joining nothing much is going to change your mind.

I for one and happy to see Wally and know he will get more storyline and more hero moments and failures while becoming part of the Legends family. 

In other news Jax is returning for the finale. Which seems extremely busy with being in the old west with Jonah Hex, Jax and possibly Constantine. 

http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/25/franz-drameh-returns-to-legends-of-tomorrow-for-season-3-finale/

Edited February 26, 2018 by Sakura12