Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Proteus]

The trailer looks really good.

I just wonder what they are doing with Heatwave.

[tarotx]

Some people at Wondercon were saying they were told Heatwave was just Frozen so we'll see. Either way they won't keep it forever unknown. Plus we know DP has been back filming.

 

The other lost crew member, Hawkman returns in the new sizzle real. 

[MarkHB]

Ra's did indeed say Talia.... very interesting!

[CabotCove]

I thought he said Tanya, lol.

[FurryFury]

I just want to see Wild West. I mean, Ray calling himself John Wayne? That's just gold.

 

But seriously, good promo.

[nksarmi]

In one of the interviews that was posted in the Arrow "Mind your surrounding" forums - Caity said she wanted to do a Birds of Prey Earth 2 episode and BR said he wanted to go the medieval period.  I hope these two get their wishes - they are good people, they deserve it (and so do I!).

[Sakura12]

Maybe that's where Sara gets a new outfit? She's Earth 2 Black Canary, then maybe they can use Helena Wayne for the Huntress and Earth 2 Felicity can be a hacker not named Oracle. I would love to see Captain Cold as Mayor and Earth 2 Barry and Iris West-Allen. That's a crossover I'd be excited to watch. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

Caity posted a picture of White Canary and Firestorm

And it's at the setting of filming today

Here's a small video though I don't know how to embed it

http://pic.twitter.com/D5dZBaTtbq

Edited March 29, 2016 by tarotx

[Delphi]

Oh good, they are doing something different with her hair.

[tarotx]

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/shark-week-2016-premiere-date-legends-of-tomorrow-young-heat-wave-mitchell-kummen-1201741391/

 

CW superhero series “DC’s Legends of Tomorrow” has cast “Horns” actor Mitchell Kummen in a red-hot guest role, Variety has learned exclusively. The 16-year-old thesp will play the younger version of Dominic Purcell’s Mick Rory (aka Heat Wave), a confused teenager whose love of fire becomes lethal. Kummen will appear in the April 21 episode of the freshman drama, titled “Last Refuge,” directed by Rachel Talalay and written by Chris Fedak & Matthew Maala. “Legends” is a spinoff of CW hits “Arrow” and “The Flash,” and was recently renewed for a second season....

 

The link as stuff for other show.

[Starfish35]

That seems...late. That episode was filmed several weeks ago, wasn't it? I wonder if that's typical for casting announcements?

[tarotx]

I knew the actor had been cast because Caity Tweeted him but I didn't know who he played. I think they released the info because we now know the time masters are going after the legends younger selves. 

 

@MKummen you were great yesterday!
1:51 PM - 16 Feb 2016

 https://twitter.com/caitylotz/status/699667468172685313

That seems...late. That episode was filmed several weeks ago, wasn't it? I wonder if that's typical for casting announcements?

[Sakura12]

Why does she look like she has her island wavy unwashed looking hair?

 

It looks like White Canary and Firestorm are together a lot in the finale. I kind of headcanoned that Jax is like a little brother to her. It's too bad he won't get to meet her little sister Sin. 

 

I posted a vid in the BTS thread of Caity and Franz singing along to Justin Beiber's Love Yourself. 

[kismet]

In one of the interviews that was posted in the Arrow "Mind your surrounding" forums - Caity said she wanted to do a Birds of Prey Earth 2 episode and BR said he wanted to go the medieval period.  I hope these two get their wishes - they are good people, they deserve it (and so do I!).

I'm not sure they deserve it... I it definitely would make for some good episodes ~ so i say bring those time periods on :)

[nksarmi]

I'm not sure they deserve it... I it definitely would make for some good episodes ~ so i say bring those time periods on :)

 

Well I was really thinking of myself and the fact that they had echoed two things on my top ten wish list, but I was trying to appear supportive of the actors and their creative endeavors or something like that. :)

[BkWurm1]

I guess Ray has kids or he has siblings.  [Re Jewel Staite being someone with ties to Ray]

 

 

If they go back a few years she could be Anna, his murdered fiancé.  They were targeting their younger selves.  How ironic would it be if the reason she died wasn't because of the dudes hyped up on mirikuru but because someone was trying to kill Ray?  Now I want that storyline. 

Edited March 31, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Maverick]

Based on the preview trailer, she's from the future so I''m guessing descendant.

[tarotx]

Jewel's character was described as a descendant of a long line of inventors — one of whom turns out to be someone from the DC Universe. She also has been discribed as having something to do with something Ray did before he left as a legend (which seems to be the ATOM suit).

 

And a new Casting notice for the surprise character?

Legends of Tomorrow adds Patrick J. Adams as surprise DC character — exclusive

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/31/legends-tomorrow-patrick-j-adams-season-2

[Starfish35]

TVLine reporting on the casting of Patrick Adams:

http://tvline.com/2016/03/31/legends-of-tomorrow-season-2-patrick-j-adams-mystery-hero/

While there has been much speculation about the beloved superhero’s identity in the weeks after TVLine broke the news, we have since learned that one possibility can be ruled out: time traveler Booster Gold.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Starfish35

[FurryFury]

Cool, I like this actor.Too bad he's not Booster Gold, but I guess it wouldn't be possible unless his show is ending (is it? I've dropped it ages ago. God I hated the other lead dude).

Edited March 31, 2016 by FurryFury

[nksarmi]

With the speculation that Kendra might not be back next season - I am trying really hard not to buy into this Ray/Kendra ship, but I'll be damned if I don't find them adorable together.  Unfortunately, it's hard for me to enjoy any ship with these people because I'm fairly certain the writers have to torture or separate any good couple (one of my top wishes for the end of Arrow is seeing Thea and Roy teaching their kid to shot a bow and arrow). 

 

But anyway, I might be alone but I like Kendra and I like her with Ray.  I want another female cast member but I'd be perfectly happy keeping her around next year.

[tarotx]

LOL episode 12 is really going to send the timey people into a nervous break down :p

 

Legends of Tomorrow Episode 12 Spoiler Description: “Last Refuge”

 

RIP’S BACKSTORY IS REVEALED – The team is targeted by The Pilgrim (guest star Faye Kingslee), a deadly assassin who wants to erase the Legends from the timeline by killing their younger, non-superhero selves. As a protective countermeasure, Rip (Arthur Darvill) decides Sara (Caity Lotz), Snart (Wentworth Miller), Rory (Dominic Purcell), Professor Stein (Victor Garber) and Jax (Franz Drameh) need to kidnap their past selves first before The Pilgrim gets to them. Coming face-to-face with the younger versions of themselves proves to be both a physical and emotional challenge for certain members of the team who would rather forget their past. Rip tells them he has a refuge for their precious cargo – an orphanage that raises future Time Masters and where he himself grew up. Rachel Talalay directed the episode written by Chris Fedak & Matthew Maala (CBMSUX). Original airdate 4/21/2016.

 

http://dclegendstv.com/2016/03/31/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-12-spoiler-description-last-refuge/

[Lokiberry]

LOL episode 12 is really going to send the timey people into a nervous break down :p

 

Legends of Tomorrow Episode 12 Spoiler Description: “Last Refuge”

 

RIP’S BACKSTORY IS REVEALED – The team is targeted by The Pilgrim (guest star Faye Kingslee), a deadly assassin who wants to erase the Legends from the timeline by killing their younger, non-superhero selves. As a protective countermeasure, Rip (Arthur Darvill) decides Sara (Caity Lotz), Snart (Wentworth Miller), Rory (Dominic Purcell), Professor Stein (Victor Garber) and Jax (Franz Drameh) need to kidnap their past selves first before The Pilgrim gets to them. Coming face-to-face with the younger versions of themselves proves to be both a physical and emotional challenge for certain members of the team who would rather forget their past. Rip tells them he has a refuge for their precious cargo – an orphanage that raises future Time Masters and where he himself grew up. Rachel Talalay directed the episode written by Chris Fedak & Matthew Maala (CBMSUX). Original airdate 4/21/2016.

 

http://dclegendstv.com/2016/03/31/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-12-spoiler-description-last-refuge/

My eye has already started to twitch.

 

I've been a fan of Doctor Who for over thirty years, so I'm used to time travel not making any sense; but it at least has to make pretend sense, you know? PRETEND SENSE. That's all I'm asking for, people.

[Starfish35]

With the speculation that Kendra might not be back next season - I am trying really hard not to buy into this Ray/Kendra ship, but I'll be damned if I don't find them adorable together.  Unfortunately, it's hard for me to enjoy any ship with these people because I'm fairly certain the writers have to torture or separate any good couple (one of my top wishes for the end of Arrow is seeing Thea and Roy teaching their kid to shot a bow and arrow). 

 

But anyway, I might be alone but I like Kendra and I like her with Ray.  I want another female cast member but I'd be perfectly happy keeping her around next year.

Replying in Relationships thread.

[KirkB]

Dr. Who is the only show I have ever seen which somehow manages to make changing the rules of time travel whenever the writers feel like it actually work.

[MarkHB]

Regarding the casting of Patrick Adams, my note about the use of Hub City in the "Left Behind" episode thread led both @feverfew and myself to wonder if he might be playing The Question.  I have my doubts, mainly because he's a non-powered hero and might not fit well with the super-powered Legends, and because he's a hard character to get right.  Here's a quick overview in case he does show up:

 

• He was originally created by Steve Ditko as a backup feature in Charlton Comics of the 60's.  The original version was reporter Vic Sage, a hard-core Objectivist and moral absolutist who infamously (for the time) let two criminals be swept away in a sewer, saying "I'll notify the police to watch where it comes out... They'll find them, dead or alive."  DC bought the Charlton characters in the 80's and their world (Earth-4) was merged in during Crisis on Infinite Earths.
• From there, the character took two paths: Alan Moore took him right 'round the bend as the basis for Rorschach in Watchmen.  At roughly the same time, Denny O'Neil took over the character in the pages of his own book, but O'Neil knew he couldn't write him the way Ditko had.  His solution was to kill the Question (except not really) in the first issue, send him off to Richard Dragon for Zen mastery, and then bring him back as a deeply philosophical character.  The book even had a "recommended reading" note in the monthly letters column.
• Somewhere along the line, Vic Sage was replaced in the comics as The Question by Renee Montoya.  That was after I stopped buying comics for the most part.
• The Question (again Vic Sage) shows up in Justice League Unlimited as a somewhat paranoid conspiracy theorist ("You went through my garbage?" "I go through everyone's garbage."), milder in tone and outlook than Rorschach.  This version also showed up in DC"s Convergence crossover event and IMHO is the interpretation most likely to show up, if he does make an appearance.

 

Of course, this is all speculation based on the use of Hub City :)

[Lokiberry]

Pleaseohpleaseohplease let it be the Question!! I've loved him ever since JLU. I'd love it if he showed up and maybe joined the cast next season. I know there's a rumor going around that Constantine might join, but I hope it's the Question instead.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Lokiberry

[nksarmi]

I love Constantine and I'd like to see him for a couple of episodes, but I don't think I want him on the show full-time.  He feels a bit like Rip to me in terms of character tone (not that they are anything alike just the characters give me the same feeling when I watch them).

 

One of the things I absolutely love about this show is that every single character feels different from each other.  Ray and Stein are both geniuses but they have very different personalities, Snart and Heatwave are both criminals but still very different characters.  I mean each character feels like a complete individual who contribute something different to the team and the dynamic.  I'm hoping that whoever they add or take away - that remains true.

[Lokiberry]

This guy on Bleeding Cool says he's been spoiled as to who the "beloved character" will be:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/04/01/patrick-j-adams-role-in-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-finale-revealed-spoilers/

 

He says it's Alan Scott, the original Golden Age Green Lantern. AG isn't from Earth 1 in the comics, so perhaps this means they'll be traveling the multiverse instead of time, which would not only be cool, but considering the ratings jump the Flash got when they did it, might be smart decision making.

 

A couple of things come to mind is this is true: 1) GL is going to cost money. Can the show afford the Atom, Firestorm, and GL? I know they're probably getting rid of Hawkgirl, but it still seems like it's too expensive to add him if they plan on keeping him long term. I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that if that's happening, they're going to lose Firestorm. Two actors and CGI use up a lot of resources. 2) Alan Scott is gay, and this brings to mind WM pitching his character as pansexual (although, to be fair, a lot of things bring that to mind). Sara got her 50's nurse, will Cold gets his Golden Age Superhero?

Edited April 3, 2016 by Lokiberry

[nksarmi]

Another article about his character said that he would be reoccurring - not a regular.  And goodness knows that MG has been saying there were other plans for "Green Lantern" for ages now.  It would be absolutely freaking fantastic if they introduced one version of GL on Legends and dropped more Hal Jordan Easter Eggs on Arrow at the same time. Perhaps the plan is to use GL special effects on Legends for a few episodes and just to hint that Oliver has a friend named Hal to save for the final season of Arrow when the budget won't matter as much?

 

ETA: Also, they could easily get around this if he's an Earth 2 character who only joins them occasionally.  He could restrict the use of his ring to dire emergencies because they need to hide the existence of the Lantern Core on Flarrowverse Earth until that Earth's GL is recruited.

Edited April 3, 2016 by nksarmi

[Sakura12]

I've heard spec that it could be someone from the Legion of Superheroes since as of now they are not going to be used in the DC movie verse. But the Question is also a possibility since Ray and Kendra lived in Hub City in 1958. Vic would be cheaper since he doesn't have any special powers and could give Sara a partner to fight with.

[kismet]

I think the fact that they moved Kendra & Ray to Hub City specifically and made sure to pay for screen captions of the town's name must be significant for something. Otherwise, they could have just put a random name in or perhaps none at all.

[MarkHB]

GL would be expensive as hell, plus DCE are messed up in the head if they let Berlanti & co. near Green Lantern again.  I will be very surprised if it's him.

[KirkB]

Ray rarely shrinks and they only ever merge Firestorm for a minute or two every few episodes, largely because (I imagine) the effects are pretty expensive. Green Lantern, any GL, would be at least as expensive if not more so, considering his constructs would probably be on screen longer and more complex. Since they barely seem to be find time for the expensive people they already have I doubt they would add another, or even replace one of them with him since it would end up with the same result. Now someone like Question, on the other hand, the only 'effect' you might need would be his (or her, if they went with Renee) mask.

Edited April 5, 2016 by KirkB

[nksarmi]

Well it's an interesting spoiler rather it's true or not.  I wonder if true, if they would follow through on Snart's pansexual thing. :)

[BkWurm1]

With the speculation that Kendra might not be back next season - I am trying really hard not to buy into this Ray/Kendra ship, but I'll be damned if I don't find them adorable together.  Unfortunately, it's hard for me to enjoy any ship with these people because I'm fairly certain the writers have to torture or separate any good couple (one of my top wishes for the end of Arrow is seeing Thea and Roy teaching their kid to shot a bow and arrow). 

 

But anyway, I might be alone but I like Kendra and I like her with Ray.  I want another female cast member but I'd be perfectly happy keeping her around next year.

Adding to the speculation of Kendra leaving, Cierra posted a picture on Instagram two days ago with a Hawkgirl action figure hanging (in flight) in front of the window and the only caption is "fin" 

Edited April 6, 2016 by BkWurm1

[nksarmi]

Adding to the speculation of Kendra leaving, Cierra posted a picture on Instagram two days ago with a Hawkgirl action figure hanging (in flight) in front of the window and the only caption is "fin" 

 

Awe that is kind of sad. I'm kind of glad I'm spoiled on this - I would hate to be too into them and get smacked up side the head by her (maybe?) death.  Poor, poor Ray.  And damn these writers are good if they can turn my sentiment for Ray like this - I never hated him on Arrow but I definitely wasn't happy with him when he shot Roy.

[MarkHB]

Leaving aside Ciara's Instagram (which could have been referencing the end-of-season wrap; she used the #Fin tag in other posts), is there any independent source for the "Hawkgirl is leaving" idea?  Or is it all just supposition?

 

Also, Ciara Renee is now back in New York, and possibly looking for Hawkgirl street art.

[tarotx]

It's just the feel of her Instagram&tweets of the last few weeks but maybe the Marc G quote I posted in the media thread could leave one to think it though it's mostly just supposition.

 

Details Guggenheim, "Like we do with The Flash and Arrow, Vandal Savage was conceived as our big bad for the season. I'm not going to say that season one doesn't end with a cliffhanger, but it ends with a definitive answer or end to the Vandal Savage story. So you will know if Rip Hunter's family gets saved, if Vandal Savage conquers the world, what happens to Vandal Savage, what happens to the Hawks. You're going to know all of that by the end of the year."

 

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/legends-tomorrow-7-reveals-show/

 

 

 

Leaving aside Ciara's Instagram (which could have been referencing the end-of-season wrap; she used the #Fin tag in other posts), is there any independent source for the "Hawkgirl is leaving" idea?  Or is it all just supposition?

 

Also, Ciara Renee is now back in New York, and possibly looking for Hawkgirl street art.

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, I've read no spoilers, just a vibe I got from following her on Instagram. There was a point where she went from really happy and bubbly and lots of Hawk this and that to kind of depressed and then she got off all social media only to come back and then announce she was going again only to return and post more regular life stuff and then what look like goodbyes.

Yes it could be for only the season but she has been called the weakest link over and over so I can't rule it out. I don't want her to go but I don't get to decide, lol.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Sakura12]

I actually think it's dumb of them to bring Kendra with them to fight Savage all the time. He can sense her, that gives away the element of surprise.

 

Her only real purpose on the team is to be the one to deliver the death blow. They can have the the team of White Canary, ATOM, Captain Cold, Heatwave and Firestorm kick his ass, then Kendra can fly in stab him and recite the creepy love poem. Otherwise they haven't showed her to be all that useful to the team once Savage is defeated. She doesn't seem to really possess any superior fighting skills over Sara, she's not a scientist like Ray and Stein, Jax is needed to be Firestorm and apparently an amazing mechanic, Captain Cold has the tactical brain, she doesn't own a Time Ship like Rip and she doesn't have knowledge of the Time Masters like Heatwave now does. 

 

I don't hate her, she just doesn't add anything to the show and I don't want another Laurel. I'd rather they replace with another female character that brings some other skill that the team doesn't currently have. Or someone they can at least develop beyond being a love interest. 

[nksarmi]

Ok so some time between when the group saved Ray from Darkh and when Rip recruited him - he had unsafe sex with a girl we don't know?!?!?!

[Sakura12]

Episode 13.

 

DC’S Legends of Tomorrow

 

“Leviathan” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

LONDON 2166 – Rip (Arthur Darvill) takes the team to London in the year 2166, three months before his family is killed. He believes this to be their final opportunity to take out Savage (Casper Crump) who is, unfortunately, at the height of his power. However, the team discovers two key elements to defeating him – Savage’s daughter (guest star Jessica Sipos) and the means to kill Savage once and for all. Gregory Smith directed the episode written by Sarah Nicole Jones & Ray Utarnachitt (#113). Original airdate 4/28/2016.

 

Savage's daughter. Are they really introducing Scandal Savage? Could she be joining the team next year? Maybe another love interest for Sara since Scandal's gay in the comics. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Sakura12

[Lady Calypso]

I kind of figure that the only way to destroy Vandal Savage is to break whatever connection is between him and Kendra. Whether that is by a true death or not, she's the key to stopping him. But I don't really want her to go. I mean, not unless they have another female or two to replace her for next season. The team has been so male heavy already. 

 

Also, the only way I can see them killing Savage is by them going back to Kendra and Carter's first life and killing him there. I'm not quite sure how they'd be able to get rid of him otherwise. Also, Rip's family is probably going to stay dead.

 

The only members I see sticking around for sure next season are Rip, Sara, and Snart. I think Stein and Jax will probably live to the end of the season, but choose to go back to 2016. Mick is give and take, but he wouldn't be a bad choice to keep around. I enjoy him. Ray is also a hit or miss, but he could probably stay as well. Maybe they will end up keeping almost all of them, but I don't know if they'll keep Kendra or not, only because this starts and ends with her. 

[Sakura12]

White Canary and Scandal Savage are both creations of Gail Simone. I wonder what she thinks of that?

[MarkHB]

I'm going to go back to the Patrick Adams casting, because I've been kicking around possibilities in my head.

 

One, since they mentioned he could be recurring rather than every week, and he has a mysterious agenda.... the Phantom Stranger.

 

Or, going back in time, to the man who, according to DC lore, was the last man killed in Europe on V-E Day: Sgt. Rock.

 

Or maybe, they succeed in thwarting Savage after all, but instead the world is placed on a course that leads to a different great cataclysm, one that wipes out almost all the people save one, a young man who named himself after the bunker he grew up in.... Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth.

 

Just interesting possibilities that came to mind.

[feverfew]

MarkHB, I like every one of your possibilities, although I'm partial to the Phantom Stranger. Only thing is they might not be 'big' enough. Wasn't he described as a "beloved superhero"? I think a character like Sgt. Rock is probably too far from the public's mind when it comes to DC's superheroes...

 

My five cents regarding the Hawks: I don't want to lose Kendra. It's fine with me if Carter Hall stays dead in this timeline, but I like Kendra and what she brings to the team: a softer sensibility which isn't apparent often in female superheroes* - she balances Sara imo, which is necessary.

 

* I have these not very well formulated thoughts floating around somewhere in my head on why the audience in general prefer "kickass", "badass", "tomboyish" female heroes and general scoffs at the "girlish" ones (see Arya and Sansa on Game of Thrones), but as I wrote, it's not fully thought out and also - beyond the scope of this thread, so I'll just leave it there :)

[Sakura12]

Caity's so tiny. 

 

[KirkB]

No, Ray, you don't stick out at all. Why do you ask?

[Sakura12]

Well to be fair, he's pretty useless in a fight without his suit. 

 

That's why I rolled my eyes when Ray volunteered to fight Sara. She would've killed him before he even blinked. It was even more funny when he picked up a sword and Sara's like "Don't even think about it. Here's your suit"