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Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Legends Of Tomorrow

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Lokiberry
Lokiberry

I love Mick, he's a great character, but he tried to kill Sara and steal the time drive which would have stranded the team in whatever time period they were in. He did this because he was unhappy on t

Sakura12
Sakura12

Why do writers think fans want to see huge conflict? When has that ever turned out well for any show? Does he not watch Arrow, does he not see how that is hurting the show?  I liked Legends becau

Lokiberry
Lokiberry

Sara was treated horrifically on Arrow, but since she came to LoT, she's received the best treatment of any female character in the flarrowverse. She's been given plenty of screen time. She hasn't bee

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Until I see otherwise I'm going to assume they both beat up the previous owners of the uniforms to get into wherever they are trying to get into. I think it works better if the uniforms don't fit perfectly because the chances of finding someone your exact same size is rare. Sara's on the short side, so it would harder for her find a similar match. If they do this I would applaud them for being realistic. 

 

It looks like this show is not going to be anything like Arrow and the Flash since they appear to be doing a lot of undercover work and aren't just fighting bad guys while wearing masks. It's really making me look forward to it more. It's different. It looks like a team show (a la Leverage, Scorpion, Person of Interest) that happen to be super heroes. 

Edited by Sakura12
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I love undercover work, so I'm excited.

 

In defense of the stolen uniforms, Hawkgirls looks like it is from a different branch or at least a different rank, it is far more flattering at baseline than the blue suit WC has to wear. That being said, they are both kicking butt together which is awesome, so I don't really care how flattering the disguises are so long as it gets the job done.

 

ETA - or what @MarkHB said about the uniforms :)

Edited by kismet
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nksarmi

nksarmi

I'm starting to feel guilty.  People over on the Flash and Arrow forums are all like "I'm so ready for the LoT setup to be done" and I'm all like "shhh this is getting good."

 

Seriously though, Arrow is going to get boring if they don't tap into the fullness that is the shared universe (and frankly, I think this season is so much better than last so far because of the expanded universe).  And while Flash has loads more room to cover - I don't feel like setting up LoT characters is hurting them at all.  I really don't get the hate.

MarkHB

MarkHB

Personally, I've only ever watched Arrow for the Atom and now the LoT setup, and I'm looking forward to dropping it again this winter when LoT starts and Idol comes back on (so yes, that does imply that Sara actually means nothing to me... the first Arrow ep I saw was the Flash crossover). And even though this week's Flash had barely any Flash (although a decent amount of Barry), I can deal with that for a week, particularly with Kendra finally coming in next episode!

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I only started watching Arrow again after giving it up last season for Sara and the LoT set up. I'll probably drop it again when Sara leaves for LoT. 

 

Although I do think that Flash is setting LoT up better. However they didn't kill off their characters so they can just drop by again or be new characters. Arrow has to resurrect one character and find the other. And they went with the worst option possible for the resurrection story. I can't wait for Sara to leave her family that treats her like she's dog.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I'm starting to feel guilty.  People over on the Flash and Arrow forums are all like "I'm so ready for the LoT setup to be done" and I'm all like "shhh this is getting good."

 

I'm exactly like you. I'm way more interested in the LOT setup than either of these shows. I mean, I've only come back to Arrow for Sara.

 

I can't wait for Sara to leave her family that treats her like she's dog.

 

Well, I don't think Quentin treats her like a dog. Yeah, he was ready to shoot her but I never believe he'd do that, even if Laurel didn't stop him. I don't know what happened to him in Arrow s3 but I gather he's not in a good place (although TBH this reaction still felt quite OOC for the Quentin I remember). Laurel, yeah, but did you honestly expect any better from her?

Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I love Sara and I'm actually very open to liking Ray on LoT (though I didn't like him on Arrow), so I wasn't opposed to Arrow setting them up for LoT. I think there was a lot of potential for good story there. But I really don't like the way they're executing it so far, so that's what's making me wish it were already over and done. 

 

In PTV's Arrow review, Monty pointed out that Felicity is stuck in an Idiot Plot, and she is. She's getting a bunch of code on her phone and she doesn't bother to check it out? Curtis has to be the one to identify it? She learns that it's code Ray created and she doesn't question that any further? Come on. This is a person who hates mysteries! She has an insatiable urge to dig into stuff like this. I don't care how busy she's supposed to be, this is making her stupid and it's already boring for the audience because we know exactly what's happening.

 

And Sara...I mean, I don't even know where to begin on how terribly muffed that whole thing has been.

 

So I'm left to feel like the Arrow writers knew they had to get to Point B (Ray and Sara alive), and just wrote their way backward in the laziest possibly way. I'm not interested in watching shitty plotting and characterization, so now I just wish it were already over so Ray and Sara could get to LoT (which I also plan to watch), and Arrow could get back to...whatever it is those writers DO want to write about.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I'd still prefer Sara being snatched from time a moment before her death by Rip, or resurrected by Malcolm for another evil plan of his... Laurel doing feels very lazy and stupid. But hey, at least she's alive. Even if her resurrection really, really reminds me of Angel coming back from hell in BtVS season 3, complete with chains and growling.

Sakura12

Sakura12

I think it would've been better if Rip had dug her up and brought her to the future and put her in the LP. But we don't know any of that until Sara shows up in 4x08 as White Canary. Where she's been recovering and fighting in the future. It could've even been for a couple of years and her and Rip just come back to a year after she died. That way she would've had more time to recover and be the Sara that will be a Legend. (although people thinking she died 4 or 5 times, puts in her in a legend territory already) I don't really care about Sara's family, I don't really need to see a big reunion or storyline wasted on them. Especially since Laurel's a delusional fool and Quentin is most likely marked for death. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Honestly, I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I have never ever liked the Rip Hunter idea for resurrecting Sara, and I'm glad they didn't go that way. I'm not even sure I can put my finger on why, exactly, I don't like it, but I just don't. Do I think they could have come up with a way to bring her back that didn't make Laurel end up looking like quite such a delusional idiot? Sure. But (and I apologize to the Arrow fans - I'm so sorry) that's an Arrow problem, not a LoT problem. :(

tarotx

tarotx

The problem isn't the LOT set up, it's Laurel and how it seems the writers hate and love her at same time. They constantly make her do the stupid but no lasting consequence and often moments of praise fir said stupid.

Sara will have all that happens next week on her hands and probably a forced exile from Star city with her Thea blood lust. I'm sad for Sara. What happens to Laurel?

And Felicity is figuring out what's happening with her phone. She traced it to PT and thought Curtis was pranking her. So I don't get the cries about that. Felicity us now the real leading lady of Arrow and she has her own set to play on. That's a good thing. Last year the problem was that Felicity was changed to fit with on Ray's island. Her guilt and grief are her own this season. So not a LOT setup issue imo.

I love Arrow but I'm stoked Sara's back. She and LOT is my only real happiness about the new 2015-16 shows. She's my girl.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I think my issue with "Ray" is I'm worried it is going to be done in a way that makes Felicity look OOC or myopic.  Just that she hadn't been all over the issue with her phone the second it was acting up was out of character.  They did have her track the problem down herself (well to a reasonable level)  but instead of finding out that Ray is tiny somewhere in the office which honestly, would be kind of hilarious even if they played it serious, I'm afraid they are going to do a reveal that half blames Felicity for not immediately rushing back to Starling.

 

Otherwise, I'm good with Ray.  I was always his devils advocate (apart from one really terrible episode where I wanted to strangle his smug face) and once they let go of the drama and keeping him on his island, he was a great character so I am very much looking forward to him get his fresh start.  They've worked out his kinks. 

 

Sadly, a lot of those kinks came at the expense of Felicity last year but she's doing good this year and I expect/hope that continues. 

 

I am also curious to see what happens with the companies he gave her.  Does he get them back?  Is he still going to be a billionaire when he is on LoT?  Will he even officially be alive?  These are things I want to know. 

 

Then there is the plot to bring back Sara.  Laurel has looked TERRIBLE but honestly, I don't care.  I don't like Laurel so terrible is just normal for her IMO, but the part of her story that I am REALLY not looking forward to is the part where all her really bad choices are hand waved away and she's hailed as the only one that knew best.  I want Sara back but I wanted it done in a way that doesn't praise her when not only IMO hasn't earned it, but the show didn't even explain why we shouldn't think she's having break with reality.   

 

I think it's a combo of the existing weirdness in bringing back Sara (not even dressing up the crazy story in a few empathetic rags) and the fear of it going places that will induce untenable rage that has pushed some (including myself occasionally) to wishing this LoT set up was just over and done with.  

 

I also can't help wonder about the missed emotional beats or smaller Arrow storylines that were skipped to make room for these stories.  Ray, I don't think is going to take up as much time as Sara.  I love Sara but this is the third episode with "Sara" being the focus and yet still no actual Sara. 

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quarks

quarks

I'm looking forward to Legends largely because of Hawkgirl, plus Captain Cold and Stein have sold me on their characters, but I'm still mildly irked to see both Flash and Arrow either put aside their plots (Flash) or have characters acting slightly OCC (Arrow and to a lesser extent Flash) or resort to character assassination (Arrow, though to be fair having Laurel look like a terrible person is nothing new for that show) to get Legends launched. Having said that, I still like Captain Cold and Stein, and although the Ray plot so far has seemingly forgotten that Felicity's supposed to be a top hacker, that plot is also introducing Curtis Holt, who's been fun so far, and has shown some plot consistency with Ray's ongoing obsession with getting into Felicity's phone. I'd probably be fine if Laurel wasn't chaining her sister up in the basement.

 

Plus, it's just a few more episodes, and then we'll go back to having the fun of trying to figure out how the crossovers/timelines work on all three shows.

kismet

kismet

I feel like the Floater is not going to happen anymore. Which I think is just fine. All the casts are way too bloated as is, no reason to have a floater when they can just do this new fangled thing like call each other on the phone or send encrypted emails.

 

But if it were to happen I think its likely Cisco. Or my vote would be Malcolm, but now with KL possibly unavailable they will likely keep him in NP. I thought LL would be good option, but I think she a permanent engagement with some dirt & a certain stone in a few months.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

After the past couple of episodes of The Flash, I'd love some appearances by Malese Jow aka Linda Park aka Doctor Light. I think the Earth-2 villain would fit right in. 

 

Also, what better way to hide from Zoom than being in a different time altogether. 

That would be great.  This show needs another woman on the team as far as I'm concerned and while I only recently warmed to Linda Park - I loved her as Dr. Light.

FurryFury

FurryFury

That's because they've only bothered to give Linda a personality this last episode. She got an important relationship (the newspaper dude who died), callbacks to her and Barry's dating, Barry unmasking himself as a gesture of trust, an opportunity to be brave and funny - it was hard not to like her. It kinda seems that some of the writers on The Flash can write women, just not the high-ups, thus the horrible lack of consistency with their characterization.

 

I'm not sure they'd get Linda or Dr. Light (who, I admit, seems a bit more interesting to me because I'm a sucker for dark grey characters) on LoT, considering that Linda Park seems to be a canon LI of Wally West who'll probably debut soon on The Flash. She'll probably remain there for the time being.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I love Malese Jow since she played Anna on The Vampire Diaries, another show I stopped watching after they killed her in the lamest way possible. 

 

I think Linda Park got more of personality because Wally West is showing up. Then she'll probably become just a love interest for him. However when they do that I hope they can keep Linda and Iris having their own adventures together. 

 

I do think they need to stop adding more men and add more women to the show. They only have Kendra and Sara. From the pics above I love that they are fighting together. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I thought it was weird when Sara wasn't in any of the BTS pics, but I figured maybe she was off kicking ass somewhere else. Now she's not mentioned in the both episode descriptions. That makes it seem like she's not part of the crossover. Or she shows up at the very end having been recruited by Rip Hunter offscreen. 

 

If she was I hope she's chilling in a future spa that is helping her with her rage issues. If anyone deserves a relaxing break it's her. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I guess I'm just a little grumpy because I was so looking forward to Sara coming back, and this 4+ episode resurrection arc turned out to be more about Laurel than Sara. We didn't even get much of Sara in this week's episode. And now it looks like she might not be in the crossover. *sigh*

Oh well. The series will be on soon enough and we'll hopefully have plenty of Sara then. I just really had expected her to be a major player in the crossover.

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yellowfred

yellowfred

Yeah, I kind of wonder if they're using her sparingly in the setup because they think she's already a known quantity.  Like, the Hawks, Vandal Savage, and the new Firestorm guy all need to be introduced to the audience; Captain Cold and Heatwave need to be set up in a way that they can reasonably be seen as protagonists.  Even with Ray, this is kind of their last chance to give people a more positive impression of him than we got last season.  With Sara, though, they don't need to sell anyone on the character (I might argue that they do need to sell their capacity to write for her well, but that's another issue).  Considering the size of the ensemble they're needing to pull together, along with the fact that they're doing it on two shows that have their own characters and arcs that need to be set up, I can sort of understand them putting Sara on the back burner until the actual show premieres.

 

That being said, I'm still hoping that the crossover descriptions are just misleading.

MarkHB

MarkHB

 With Sara, though, they don't need to sell anyone on the character....

 

Not necessarily; some of us, myself included, are Flash viewers who may have no connection to Sara at all.  I've said before, the first episode of Arrow I ever saw was the crossover last season, and Sara was dead by then.  i've been watching Arrow this season to get ready for Legends, and although I haven't seen this week's episode yet it sounds like I still won't be seeing much of Sara (I don't count the soulless feral beast-woman she was before Constantine showed up).

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Ray's not in the BTS pics or description either. That's what makes it strange too. That's why I don't get the complaint that LoT is taking over. The crossover seems to be focusing mostly on the Arrow and Flash characters helping 2 of the LoT characters.

I think people do need to be introduced to Sara outside of who she was on Arrow. This Sars is going to be different because she no longer as the threat of Ra's al Ghul and league of assassins trying to make her come back to them, she finally free from them. She has a her new bloodlust trauma to deal with.

Edited by Sakura12
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Not necessarily; some of us, myself included, are Flash viewers who may have no connection to Sara at all.  I've said before, the first episode of Arrow I ever saw was the crossover last season, and Sara was dead by then.  i've been watching Arrow this season to get ready for Legends, and although I haven't seen this week's episode yet it sounds like I still won't be seeing much of Sara (I don't count the soulless feral beast-woman she was before Constantine showed up).

Well just in case they don't do a comprehensive job of  reintroducing all the characters on LoT, here's a cheat sheet on Ray and Sara.  (cross post from the Mind Your Surroundings in the Arrow forum)

 

 

The Ray that showed up on The Flash was probably a bit more annoying than the one that will be on LoT, they did a much better job writing him after he appeared on Flash, otherwise, that was him.  About the only background info you'd need was that he decided to build his suit after he and his fiancé were attacked by a super soldier (end of Arrow season two - we only hear about it in season three) and he wasn't able to save his fiancé.   Pretty much immediately after his crossover to Flash, he figured out that Felicity wasn't in love with him and let her go but they remain friends and Oliver is cordial.  Ray also shrinks now.  That's pretty much all there is to know.  

 

 

Sara is so much more complex but anything explained in writing probably won't translate as well as seeing it, so just know that she's awesome and broken and lethal and vulnerable.  She could probably beat Oliver in a hand to hand fight and Diggle.  At the same time.  (The actress is able to do a lot of her own stunt fighting)

 

 

She believes no woman should suffer at the hands of men..  She kept a promise to a dying man who she only knew for an hour to look in after his daughter and bonded with her like she was her little sister.  While she was away and presumed dead by her family (long story) she fell in love with the Daughter to the Demon who saved her and became a member of the League of Assassins (join or die)  but she left when she could no longer stand the killing and was willing to die rather than go back. 

 

She and Oliver dated for a while but broke up with him when she realized they weren't right for each other. (She was struggling with killing if needed, Oliver was doing his no kill thing, she decided he needed to be with 'some that could harness the light inside him aka IMO they were too much alike) Still she unselfishly traded in her freedom from the LoA in to get their help so Starling City would survive the super soldier attack.  

 

 

She and Laurel (her sister) were estranged (Rather than a hug, when Laurel found out she was alive, she threw a wine glass at her and told her to get out)  They did the forgive and forget and were getting closer.  She was murdered at the beginning of season 3 in a ridiculously complicated and convoluted plot.  Laurel decided to get into the mask thing like her sister had.   A year later, Laurel heard about the Lazarus Pits and long story short, Sara is back alive but the side effect from the pit is being afflicted with a blood lust for killing that she hasn't learned to control (which traumatizes her) so she's off trying to figure that out. 

 

Her mom lives in Central City so maybe she'll show up in a cameo.  Crosses fingers.   

 

  

I mentioned that Sara was awesome, right?

Edited by BkWurm1
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Sakura12

Sakura12

I figured she'd be in the pilot to send Sara off to star in her own show. I'm prepared for that. I don't want or need to see her anymore after that. 

 

In my slight dreamworld I'm hoping KC meant the crossover episodes which is the backdoor pilot for LoT. Then the two hour LoT pilot is Laurel free as well as the rest of the show. 

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I figured she'd be in the pilot to send Sara off to star in her own show. I'm prepared for that. I don't want or need to see her anymore after that. 

 

In my slight dreamworld I'm hoping KC meant the crossover episodes which is the backdoor pilot for LoT. Then the two hour LoT pilot is Laurel free as well as the rest of the show. 

I'm going to just tell myself that the LL that appears on LoT is a different character that never threw a wine glass at her sister's head or SWF'ed Sara's life.  I don't think the pilot would be the last we see of her.  But maybe they can make LoT LL tolerable. 

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

For what its worth this came across Twitter today...

Here's hoping they write him better on LoT. And maybe fingers-crossed we get SL's LoA back story :)

Now just add Nyssa and we might have something.

 

I am curious.  Have they spoken about the use of flashback in LoT?  Or is it more likely that the whole cast will visit Ra's in the past sometime, perhaps waaaaay back but also equally as fun when Sara is in two places at once.  Wacky hijinks ensue! 

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MarkHB

MarkHB

Bleeding Cool has come up with some interesting rumors while the rest of us were reeling from L-tryptophan:

 

The first story:

 

 

Well, from the same Thanksgiving source, comes the word that the upcoming DC’s Legends Of Tomorrow TV show is planning to radically switch casts and missions each season. As a model. it’s being compared to Justice League Unlimited cartoon.

 

Which means it is planned for Matt Ryan‘s John Constantine to appear as a series regular in 2017’s season two.

 

The show is also looking to cast Steven R McQueen, who plays Jeremy Gilbert in The Vampire Diaries as another new hero during season two as well.

 

The follow-up:

 

 

As to Constantine appearing in a second season of DC’s Legends Of Tomorrow, that seems to be getting walked back some. I’m hearing instead that, while Constantine played by Matt Ryan has indeed been discussed for the show, DC Comics themselves are the stumbling block on the character appearing in the show.

 

I’m also hearing from another well connected source that the show is incredibly expensive and they’re not sure if they’ll go with a second season, and instead replace it with a totally different show for it. [sic]

 

So, basically, any discussion about who is and isn’t in season two may be more of a bucket list…

 

I'm posting so much of it because it also includes potential Supergirl spoilers, so if you don't want to read those BEWARE THE LINKS!

 

(Yes, I know the L-tryptophan thing is a myth :) .

Starfish35

Starfish35

I hope that's all just rumors. I am not interested in a radical cast change each year. I expect there to be some cast changeover - likely more than in the other two shows - but I'm not interested in an entirely new cast every year. And I think it'd be incredibly stupid for them to have gone to all this trouble to bring Sara back from the dead, only to use her for one season. If the show gets cancelled, it's a moot point of course, but it all sounds like crazy talk to me.

And please please no to Steven R McQueen.

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