S05.E10: Them

[mandolin]

That seems a little quick on the trigger to me. Because I watch so little TV, I stream the 2 or 3 shows I like next day. It seems easier for those who watch on the exact broadcast day to stay mum for 48-72 hours than it does for slightly-late-watchers to go into virtual hibernation so the show isn't spoiled for them. Yes, I'm careful to avoid show-related forums like this one, but all of FB? Honestly seems like a bit of courtesy not to spoil on general social media for at least a couple of days. JMO.

.

I'm with you (especially when AMC is doing the spoiling). The way people watch tv has changed. I don't watch anything live except sports.

On the other hand, I avoid here like the plague until after I watch, and scroll quickly on fb if I'm there. I don't expect people not to say things. I can't imagine being a west coast viewer.

[flutist4fun]

I finally got to watch the ep and start reading this board yesterday. Add me to the list of those worried about Judith. I actually looked to see if Rick was chewing up dog meat and feeding it to her, as I have seen some women do with their babies. And I’ve been concerned about that beautiful pink baby skin getting sunburned since they started running commercials for 5B last December. (I know, get a life. I do have a life but I obsess over this stuff on the subway to work.) That shot of them walking in all the commercials, with Judith drooping over Rick's arm, was so cute, yet disturbing. Cover the baby! Get a hat! A big shirt!
I also thought the barn-door scene was Maggie's dream, and I felt clever for figuring it out. Ah well.
Loved it all, though. Loved the editing of the barn scene, the Maggie/Sasha and Sasha/Michonne convos, and Wet Rick.
Love when they all work together on zombie defence. Clever! Fun! So happy there's still lots of eps left.

 

One thing I’ve been waiting for: it's strange we haven't seen Rick acknowledge what the loss of Beth means to him and Judith. The most consistent caregiver Judith had in her first year of life, other than Rick himself, is now gone. (Assuming J is still <1, since she's not walking.) Chalking it up to them not having time to deal with every emotion in 40 minutes per week, but I’m kind of interested in how Rick is feeling about the two dead Greenes…they were both important to him, and he tried to protect them but failed in the end. And the two events happened within a very short time span. Maybe he'll find an old telephone by the side of the road...

 

'Dogs definitely can outrun zombies'... Agent RXS
'Pass me a piece of Lassie'… Sofie Fatale
Ha ha! Thank you both!

[NoWillToResist]

One thing I’ve been waiting for: it's strange we haven't seen Rick acknowledge what the loss of Beth means to him and Judith. The most consistent caregiver Judith had in her first year of life, other than Rick himself, is now gone.

 

Well, Carol is still there but she certainly seems to have moved beyond her earlier 'homemaker' function. Unless I'm misremembering, she was SECOND in the door of the barn, behind Rick. I am hopeful that this means she and Rick have kissed and made up. I have missed their earlier friendship.

[Nashville]

Well, Carol is still there but she certainly seems to have moved beyond her earlier 'homemaker' function. Unless I'm misremembering, she was SECOND in the door of the barn, behind Rick. I am hopeful that this means she and Rick have kissed and made up. I have missed their earlier friendship.

Do you really want Carol as your child's caregiver? The kid might get cut during Story Time. And God help the little runt if s/he coughs or sneezes in Carol's presence....

[editorgrrl]

Yeah, seems like Rick & Carl have assumed childcare duty after the loss of Beth & Tyreese. Daryl'd make a good manny for Lil Asskicker, but he's currently distancing himself from the others.

Perhaps chez Aaron has a nursery? (They obviously have hot water.)

[RainOnToosdays]

But sometimes it's so much easier to make a point when drawing comparisons.  Why go on at length about your concern that a show has lost it's direction, mystical and incomprehensible actions are going unexplained, the writers and show runners are making promises that you're starting to disbelieve, and you're worried this wonderful amazing show is potentially running itself into the ground - taking you and your hopes for how the story ends with it.  Why say all that when you can simply say - I hope this show doesn't become another Lost. Meaning ..... a show that you invested so much time and energy in, and were left bitter and confused when it signed off. 

Agreed it's definitely easier & faster to make your point that way but that's assuming your audience is also familiar with the show you're making the comparison to. I've never seen a single episode of Lost or The Sopranos or Downtown Abbey or Game of Thrones or Sons or Anarchy or Dexter .... I haven't seen any of the other zombie-genre shows occasionally mentioned here either.   (Except for Zombie Land which I loved and Dawn of the Dead.) But I also don't live under a rock so I do pick up little snippets here and there like for example I know how The Sopranos and Dexter ended and that fans weren't particularly happy. I don't know a thing about Lost though or how it ended other than that again, fans weren't all that happy about how they ended it, so any complicated comparisons that aren't explained would be well, lost on me.  

 

In comparison (LOL!) ... if I am looking to buy a new gadget, say a cell phone, I read reviews first and it bugs the hell out me when the reviewer says (and they almost always use this approach) "The SX5 builds on the SX4 and is quite similiar to the LM62, with just minor changes to the user-interface and audio quality" .... WTF? I never had those gadgets and don't know what they are like so that comparison doesn't help me at all.  I simply want a review of the product in question, explained in and of itself. Huge peeve of mine.

 

A discussion of a TV show though, not quite that serious so i just shrug and move on to the next post when there's a reference/comparison I don't get. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by RainOnToosdays

[TexasChic]

The thing that bothered me most about the Judith situation, is here Rick is weak from lack of food and water, AND he has to be ready to fend off walkers at any given moment, but yet he's walking for miles and miles holding her in his arms. I would have long since fashioned a sling out of my shirt or something, if only for the added security to keep from dropping her out of exhaustion.

Edited February 21, 2015 by TexasChic

[ghoulina]

Rick and Carl are probably primarily caring for Judy now because no one else wants that position. Did you see what happened to her last two babysitters? Aint no way in hell anyone's volunteering for that gig. Ever. In fact, that might be a great tactic if someone new and sketchy comes along. "Here, Aaron, you watch Judith for a bit". Later that night....shady, clean dude is eaten by walker. Problem solved. 

 

 

Weighing in on the spoiler thing - I don't post about the show on my FB. I do have some family members who can't always watch live. I don't want to spoil anything for them, and that's why I have this forum anyhow. I can chat with all of you. What I hate about FB, though, is it's not enough to not post about it on your OWN timeline. If you comment on a page you like's post, it will show up in your friends' newsfeed. I accidentally spoiled Hershel's death for someone that way. Super annoying. So yea, I try to be considerate. I did find it ridiculous, though, when a bunch of people were complaining that the official TWD page gave away Beth's death by posting about it after it aired. Um, that's the show's page - kind of their job to talk about major things and promote the show. I would never recommend "liking" a show's official page if you aren't going to be watching episodes live. I certainly don't.

[mandolin]

Except AMC spoiled it for everyone in their viewership other than East Coast. I assume they want as many likes as possible from all time zones. Posting that Beth died at 10:00:01pm est probably wasn't the best idea (and of course they later said sorry). Since I watch day after, I am careful with my online activity, but I do like the page for things otherwise.

I agree on the other stuff though. Facebook is annoying in what it shows.

Edited February 22, 2015 by mandolin

[Rosiejuliemom]

The thing that bothered me most about the Judith situation, is here Rick is weak from lack of food and water, AND he has to be ready to fend off walkers at any given moment, but yet he's walking for miles and miles holding her in his arms. I would have long since fashioned a sling out of my shirt or something, if only for the added security to keep from dropping her out of exhaustion.

 

 

This is why I am baffled that the group hasn't attempted to scavenge for bicycles. They shouldn't be that hard to find. Hell, they could probably find one of those cart things for Judith and a couple more for their gear. Or build the carts.

 

All the spoiler discussion made me realize that I inadvertently spoiled an almost thirteen year old plot point on ER. I do apologize. 

[CatMomma]

 

This confused me: Sasha decides to go rogue and not just push the walker off the ledge like Rick and everyone did prior, and then suddenly because of that, everyone must stop what they were doing and get out their weapons? It seemed so "Well shit, now the walkers are on to us!" Was it just that she broke the line of formation or something?

I am so glad somebody else was confused because I didn't get it either.  Like, thanks to Sasha, their cover was blown?  That was just...weird. Walkers understand the difference between aggressive humans and those who just move out of their way?  Sasha is out of control and angry!  We know this because she stabbed a walker in the head!  Huh?

[kikismom]

 Like, thanks to Sasha, their cover was blown? 

They need to have some of these ready in event of breaking ranks in front of a herd. Just need newspaper tape and matches; there should still be some of those around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08EjLZmGR54

[Nashville]

As has been shown time and again, walkers respond to stimulus - light, sound, and motion. In this respect, they're very much like sharks; their initial response to any aberrant presence in their immediate environment is to investigate it as a potential food source, but they're not going to go full-bore aggressive unless you ACT like food. Which is why, when CDB simply stood still at the bridgehead and limited their actions to simple pushes, the walkers continued to casually stumble forward into pushing range.

This was actually an extremely effective strategy, and probably would have permitted an exhausted CDB to deal with the entire herd with minimal risk and expenditure of energy - at least, until Sasha decided to go offensive and start initiating attacks - and getting REAL active in the process. THEN the walker herd went into active munch mode, and standing quietly was no longer an option; the walker herd would ferociously attack anything/anyone standing in the vicinity, not just the initial stimulus.

In other words: a debilitated CDB had worked out an intelligent plan to best deal with the walkers with minimal risk, and it was working - at least, until Sasha decided to act like a self-absorbed ass and jeopardize the safety of the entire group.

[CarpeDiem54]

As has been shown time and again, walkers respond to stimulus - light, sound, and motion. In this respect, they're very much like sharks; their initial response to any aberrant presence in their immediate environment is to investigate it as a potential food source, but they're not going to go full-bore aggressive unless you ACT like food. Which is why, when CDB simply stood still at the bridgehead and limited their actions to simple pushes, the walkers continued to casually stumble forward into pushing range.

This was actually an extremely effective strategy, and probably would have permitted an exhausted CDB to deal with the entire herd with minimal risk and expenditure of energy - at least, until Sasha decided to go offensive and start initiating attacks - and getting REAL active in the process. THEN the walker herd went into active munch mode, and standing quietly was no longer an option; the walker herd would ferociously attack anything/anyone standing in the vicinity, not just the initial stimulus.

In other words: a debilitated CDB had worked out an intelligent plan to best deal with the walkers with minimal risk, and it was working - at least, until Sasha decided to act like a self-absorbed ass and jeopardize the safety of the entire group.

This. Well said and I couldn't agree more.

[CatMomma]

They need to have some of these ready in event of breaking ranks in front of a herd. Just need newspaper tape and matches; there should still be some of those around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08EjLZmGR54

 

Ok, this was awesome.  I have typed and deleted several replies because, well, nothing beats the video.  

 

So, I'll just keep giggling. 

[CatMomma]

This is why I am baffled that the group hasn't attempted to scavenge for bicycles. They shouldn't be that hard to find. Hell, they could probably find one of those cart things for Judith and a couple more for their gear. Or build the carts.

 

All the spoiler discussion made me realize that I inadvertently spoiled an almost thirteen year old plot point on ER. I do apologize. 

 

I know you are serious and I think this would be brilliant.

 

However, I have this image of Judith, wrapped up like E.T. in Rick's bicycle basket. Hell, just picturing CDB cycling down the interstate would be awesome. Daryl needs a flowered basket with pink streamers on the handlebars.  

[Watcher0363]

Nah, Daryl is the baseball cards clacking in the spokes kind of guy.

[NoWillToResist]

Do you really want Carol as your child's caregiver? The kid might get cut during Story Time. And God help the little runt if s/he coughs or sneezes in Carol's presence....

 

Oddly, I would be ok with Carol looking after my kid. She had her own child glued to her side for 99% of the time, unlike other mothers *cough*Lori*cough*, so she and I are in agreement on proper mothering distance in the ZA. :)

 

She would teach my kids self-defense and self-reliance (unlike many other ZA prison parents who would prefer to shelter and IMO actually hinder their child's survival chances).

 

She won't eat my child (unlike the Termites).

 

She will kill anyone who threatens my child (Lizzie; and that Termite that Tyreese was supposed to have killed)

 

She's friendly with Daryl so Daryl will probably get attached to my kid as well, thus making my kid fall under Daryl's very pro-active "no child left behind" protection policy.

 

She would prefer to not kill my kid but, if she feels she has to, she will at least be really fucking sad about it. ;)

[Rosiejuliemom]

I know you are serious and I think this would be brilliant.

 

However, I have this image of Judith, wrapped up like E.T. in Rick's bicycle basket. Hell, just picturing CDB cycling down the interstate would be awesome. Daryl needs a flowered basket with pink streamers on the handlebars.  

 

 

Nah, Daryl is the baseball cards clacking in the spokes kind of guy.

 

Why not both?

[ghoulina]

However, I have this image of Judith, wrapped up like E.T. in Rick's bicycle basket. Hell, just picturing CDB cycling down the interstate would be awesome.

 

It would work out even better if Judith had the power to make their bikes levitate off the ground - then those pesky walkers would hardly be a problem. 

 

Oh shit, I think I just spoiled ET for someone. ;P

[kikismom]

         Back by amnesiac's demand.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2015 by kikismom

[SoSueMe]

They need to have some of these ready in event of breaking ranks in front of a herd. Just need newspaper tape and matches; there should still be some of those around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08EjLZmGR54

Widfire in 3...2...1

[CletusMusashi]

Giving the ep one more rewatch, and... holy crap did that zombie herd take a long time to catch up with them! They should start carrying balls of string. You see a herd 200 feet behind you, pull out your ball of string and say "Tie!" One person grabs the the string and runs for a tree next to the road. Meanwhile, you head for a tree on the other side. Leave a string tied across the road at like waist or chest level. By the time the zombies stumble their way over or under it, you'll be long forgotten and they'll wander off after a dog or chipmunk. If you want extra security, use two balls of string and four people, one pair working a yard or two ahead of the other pair. 

Meanwhile, the string has lots of other daily uses. Like dangling a bottle in front of Abraham, to get him to pull your car.

Edited February 23, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[TexasChic]

To chime in late on the whole spoiler discussion, I could see myself making the same Buffy comment with no thought whatsoever about it being a spoiler. That being said, now that it has been brought up, I will personally try to keep such things in mind, even on older shows. (BTW, I am a very big fan of Buffy, and I would only consider that a minor spoiler). But maybe give the person that said it some slack, and anyone else who inadvertently reveals plot lines. I just can't see most people doing that on purpose, since we're here to discuss shows we enjoy. So maybe we can just give a heads up, as in, "Hey, I was planning to watch that but haven't yet, so please don't reveal anymore." For the record, Samuel L Jackson spoiled the end of Breaking Bad for me on Twitter shortly after the show ended. Jerk. 

Edited February 23, 2015 by TexasChic

[Andromeda]

Yes, they've lost people. Yes, what they've been through has been brutal. But here's a thought: settle down. Find (and reinforce) a defensible building. How many buildings (and towns) have they passed??? Yet, they always seem to be on the same country road with the same decrepit barn or house. These people love to bitch and moan but it's their fault. Most people would have found a place. Even the idiot cops found a place at the hospital!

THIS. I'm sick of seeing them wander around aimlessly when they have the entire civilized world with all of its buildings at their disposal. They also act like they're the only ones in history with life so rough.

 

Back in the day, before civilization, humanity traveled in bands or lived in small camps, with lions and bears and wild cats and wild dogs ready to tear them limb from limb any time of day. Guess what? They dealt with it. They figured out how to protect themselves (caves), how to hunt, how to live. Then later, humans banded together and built towns and cities, and fortified them against the wilds outside. These people are smart enough to manage that, right? Because the zombies are no more feral or intelligent than, say, a pack of hungry wolves. Go somewhere defensible and defend it. It doesn't have to be a prison, but even that they could have reclaimed after the governor was killed. Or move into the Governor's old digs (I know that was discussed, but the idea tossed, for...some reason.)

 

Instead, they see one break in a wall (like the gated suburb) and act hopeless instead of...I don't know...fixing it! The Termites managed it. Make the walls higher!

 

And I love the bicycle idea. What attracts me to this kind of show is seeing how people might handle this kind of apocalypse, including seeing their creativity and problem-solving. Speaking of, surely fresh water is somewhere at hand, they're in basically a jungle. How about heading for a water treatment facility, or a brew pub, or somewhere you know there were tanks of water when it all went down.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Andromeda

[Bongo Fury]

Or move into the Governor's old digs (I know that was discussed, but the idea tossed, for...some reason.)

 

Brillip burned Woodbury down after Martinez and Shump left him. Living in a burned out ruins doesn't sound like the best choice to me.

[TheDancinMonarch]

The most depressing hour of television I've seen since Buffy found her mom dead on the sofa.

 

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

 

But dear God the original episode was season 5 episode 16 which aired February 27, 2001 and countless times since then!

[BrokenRemote]

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

But dear God the original episode was season 5 episode 16 which aired February 27, 2001 and countless times since then!

Wow, that's 14 years almost to the day. Unless someone's young enough to have not been able to watch when it aired, I kinda think that if I've put it off that long, I'm not really that interested.

Brillip burned Woodbury down after Martinez and Shump left him. Living in a burned out ruins doesn't sound like the best choice to me.

Yeah, but there was a long time it sat empty first. If it had been inhabited the Governor might not have been able to do that.

Edited to add that I'm an idiot. The episode where he burned Woodbury was a flashback, and Martinez and Shumpert probably left him the first night. So scratch that.

Edited February 25, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[kikismom]

What about that place where Maggie and Glenn went for baby stuff; it's not as if Merle is going to attack them again---he's dead! Or that nice day care center that had cribs! Maggie and Daryl had cleared that; if they had made it a rendezvous point for people to head to if something happened at the prison. Or even if their vehicles broke down or they were injured and couldn't get back from a run? Pick some places in the vicinity---it didn't take that long to go those places---and secure them for an emergency Plan B bug-0ut rendezvous spot.

[Raven1707]

The other night I watched “Them” (for the sixth time), and confirmed a few details:

 

    • When Michonne tells Sasha that Tyreese “was pissed” after what he lost, and that it had made him stupid, she is not smiling or grinning. To the contrary, Michonne’s brow is furrowed, which is difficult to do while smiling.
    • There is a fair amount of shade in all but one of the “walking down the middle of the road” scenes. Overall, the sunshine is mostly dappled.
    • During most of the episode, the brush along the side of the road is pretty thick, sometimes to the point that it encroaches on the pavement.
    • When Rick is shown carrying Judith, he also has what appears to be a thin brown blanket which I think we’re meant to assume he can use to partially shield the baby from the sun. Judith is playing with a corner of the blanket during much of the conversation between Rick & Daryl.
    • Carl also uses this blanket while carrying Judith and when they’re sitting on the road before the dogs show up, she (or her stunt double) is completely covered by it.
    • Later, in the scene when the rain begins falling, you can see that a corner of the blanket has been pulled up to cover Judith’s head. This is before Carl uses his hat for the same purpose.
    • When Carl is shown sleeping with Judith in his arms on the barn floor, she once again seems to be wrapped in that blanket. Later, when he lays Judith on the ground so that he can help block the door, the blanket is kind of tangled around her.
    • There is no back door to the barn.

There is a slight possibility I might be obsessive about this show...

[Nashville]

There is a slight possibility I might be obsessive about this show...

Obsessive is a relative term.

A restraining order, however, is NOT.

[BrokenRemote]

I've re-watched that scene a bunch of times and she still looks line she's smiling to me. Try watching her mouth when she says "It's not different. It's just not." She's got teeth showing and her lips curved up between those sentences. If it's not a smile it's a really odd acting choice for a facial expression.