All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[doodlebug]

21 minutes ago, Bastet said:

So can someone point me to one of these forums where hating Abby is unpopular?  Because it sure ain't this one.

I can take her or leave her; my only true dislike surrounding her is not about her, but how much time was given to storylines about her family - the whole thing with her mother and brother could have been reduced by half and worked much better.

Back in the day, TWOP was definitely a haven for Abby supporters and there were plenty of online sites where she had a lot of defenders who argued in her favor, no matter what the character said or did.  It seems like a lot of fans of the character weren't long term fans of the show because, even back then, they usually only contributed to the discussion to express their love for Abby.  Now that the show's been off the air for almost 11 years; I suppose Abby's fans have moved on to other things.  Those of us hanging out around here seem to be fans of the show as a whole as evidenced by the number of us who've seen it from start to finish.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Back in the day, TWOP was definitely a haven for Abby supporters and there were plenty of online sites where she had a lot of defenders who argued in her favor, no matter what the character said or did.  It seems like a lot of fans of the character weren't long term fans of the show because, even back then, they usually only contributed to the discussion to express their love for Abby.  Now that the show's been off the air for almost 11 years; I suppose Abby's fans have moved on to other things.  Those of us hanging out around here seem to be fans of the show as a whole as evidenced by the number of us who've seen it from start to finish.

I remember that clearly. I was a TWOP user back in the day although it was so long ago I don’t remember anyone but the recappers anymore. I also remember being on other ER forums where I was one of the only people who hated Abby and in addition, didn’t think the world of Maura Tierney either when so many were convinced she was the best and most beautiful actress on the show. Maura Tierney is fine and she’s not ugly or anything but ER had just as many talented and beautiful actresses that I think MT was placed on too much of a pedestal. I use the ER Reddit too and a lot of the posters still seem to like Abby. I have a few downvotes to my imaginary online karma for saying I dislike her and I have seen another person get called a troll for not liking her. (I’m like 35 now; I don’t really care about downvotes over a TV character but yes, it can still be polarizing to say you don’t like her.) 

I am a fan of ER as a whole and remember being positively giddy when Hulu picked it up. I felt like I was reuniting with old friends and couldn’t believe how fresh and new the show still looked for something that had premiered in the 90s. But now being in the middle of the satire that is S14 I’m trying to find ways to speed it up and be done so I can get back to when the show was good and the characters were flawed and had issues but weren’t as whiny about it. (Not to mention when the staff had more camaraderie with each other and had fun. I loved the little funny moments like Lydia getting married in chairs and Reggie and Jeanie doing the courthouse wedding with the UPS man as the witness.) 

NGL, my mom loved the show too and sometimes randomly we joke and laugh about Maggie running through the ER screaming for Abby. I remember being 14 when May Day originally aired and my mom explaining Carter was going to get better but didn’t explain his addiction to me beyond that. (I was also allowed at that point to watch Be Still my Heart and All in the Family.) My younger sister and I remember used to discuss the episodes every week. Watching the show in my 30s has been a trip now that I better understand things like workplace politics and addictions and mental health issues. When I was a teenager I really had no clue. That’s why I thought that maybe adult me would warm up to Abby, but it still hasn’t happened.  

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Hiyo]

I'm a long time fan of the show and I like Abby. Not my favorite character, but I do like her.

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

 

NGL, my mom loved the show too and sometimes randomly we joke and laugh about Maggie running through the ER screaming for Abby. I remember being 14 when May Day originally aired and my mom explaining Carter was going to get better but didn’t explain his addiction to me beyond that. (I was also allowed at that point to watch Be Still my Heart and All in the Family.) My younger sister and I remember used to discuss the episodes every week. Watching the show in my 30s has been a trip now that I better understand things like workplace politics and addictions and mental health issues. When I was a teenager I really had no clue. That’s why I thought that maybe adult me would warm up to Abby, but it still hasn’t happened.  

 

When Maggie first appeared, I was impressed with Sally Field's portrayal.  I've always liked her as an actress, I even went trick or treating as the Flying Nun as a kid.  I have a brother who is bipolar and has had many manic episodes and I can vouch for a lot of what happened in those first few episodes as being a realistic depiction of life with a mentally ill person.  I had liked Abby when she started on the show, she was an OB nurse, after all, I'm an obstetrician, I love OB nurses.  There were plenty of medical gaffes in Carol's birth episode, but Abby rang true to me as an L&D nurse.  I had enjoyed MT on News Radio back in the day; a really funny show where she fit in well with a terrific ensemble cast.  I think she's cute in an All American kinda way, not gorgeous, but cute in a relatable way.  Similar to Sally, IMO.  In other words, I was primed to love Abby and to love the Maggie storylines.  And I did, at first.

What happened was that getting Sally Field was a real coup for the show and then she went out and won an Emmy.  Meanwhile, MT got praise for her performance as Maggie's much abused daughter; so, TPTB shoved them both down our throats.  I was already a little off put when Abby pretended not to know her mother.  My brother is a PITA sometimes, but he is a human being, my flesh and blood; I would never deny him and would be incensed if anyone else in the family did, either.  At that point, we also started to get Abby the miserable, never happy, nobody loves her, nothing ever goes right for her sad sack.  Boo hoo hoo!  Her ex husband is awful, she has no money, and yet, she is the best nurse and med student ever; except she wasn't.  She said and did a lot of stuff, both as a nurse and a med student and then a resident that were the not the sorts of things that good nurses and students and doctors do,  Stuff that would actually not be tolerated in that setting and certainly wouldn't have people piling on the praise for her, insisting she was some shining example of perfection as a nurse or student or resident.  I've already talked her about her incredibly poor judgement, bad attitude and tendency to bully others.  She was the opposite of good, and, in real life, she probably would've lost her job as a nurse, would've gotten average grades at best as a student and never, ever would've been matched as a resident at County.  They'd have been thrilled to see the backside of her as she walked out the door in real life.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by doodlebug

[debraran]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

When Maggie first appeared, I was impressed with Sally Field's portrayal.  I've always liked her as an actress, I even went trick or treating as the Flying Nun as a kid.  I have a brother who is bipolar and has had many manic episodes and I can vouch for a lot of what happened in those first few episodes as being a realistic depiction of life with a mentally ill person.  I had liked Abby when she started on the show, she was an OB nurse, after all, I'm an obstetrician, I love OB nurses.  There were plenty of medical gaffes in Carol's birth episode, but Abby rang true to me as an L&D nurse.  I had enjoyed MT on News Radio back in the day; a really funny show where she fit in well with a terrific ensemble cast.  I think she's cute in an All American kinda way, not gorgeous, but cute in a relatable way.  Similar to Sally, IMO.  In other words, I was primed to love Abby and to love the Maggie storylines.  And I did, at first.

What happened was that getting Sally Field was a real coup for the show and then she went out and won an Emmy.  Meanwhile, MT got praise for her performance as Maggie's much abused daughter; so, TPTB shoved them both down our throats.  I was already a little off put when Abby pretended not to know her mother.  My brother is a PITA sometimes, but he is a human being, my flesh and blood; I would never deny him and would be incensed if anyone else in the family did, either.  At that point, we also started to get Abby the miserable, never happy, nobody loves her, nothing ever goes right for her sad sack.  Boo hoo hoo!  Her ex husband is awful, she has no money, and yet, she is the best nurse and med student ever; except she wasn't.  She said and did a lot of stuff, both as a nurse and a med student and then a resident that were the not the sorts of things that good nurses and students and doctors do,  Stuff that would actually not be tolerated in that setting and certainly wouldn't have people piling on the praise for her, insisting she was some shining example of perfection as a nurse or student or resident.  I've already talked her about her incredibly poor judgement, bad attitude and tendency to bully others.  She was the opposite of good, and, in real life, she probably would've lost her job as a nurse, would've gotten average grades at best as a student and never, ever would've been matched as a resident at County.  They'd have been thrilled to see the backside of her as she walked out the door in real life.  

Amen to that, re Abby! I HATED how she pretended to not know her mother but then Luka and everyone else had to help her or go across states to find them or help her brother. She was too smart and too everything for her background and effort. The woe is me was so overused. (also the running her hand through her hair)

I liked Sally and thought she did a good job and deserved her Emmy. Later when she was well, I thought she was good as the mom on meds who was trying to educate Abby on her brother and options. Of course even then, Abby knew more. I knew she wouldn't be back when she left Abby and the baby but I liked her so much more I was begging from the couch for them to switch. ; )

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by debraran

[RedbirdNelly]

I agree on the Abby dislike but also I liked Sally's work on ER. I'm not saying they didn't overdo it, but upon first rewatch, it was Sally that moved me to tears. There is a scene where she explains to Abby how when Abby was born she tried to will herself to be well for her baby daughter, but she wasn't able to. That was great acting and made me cry. Maybe because I was watching as a new mom but I totally understand wanting to be well for your child and the heart break that it would be to fail.

[Birdie]

My problem with Abby was first) she had a complete personality transplant between when we first meet her and when she shows up as a series regular. First meeting she’s Carol’s cheerful, encouraging OB delivery nurse; second go round, she’s this cynical, bitter-ass med student/ER nurse. It was just a complete 180, like the writers forgot how they wrote her in the twins’ birth episode. 

Second) she was a Mary Sue who was “great” at everything, and even her “faults” were written so as to be sympathetic and make her appear like this heroic martyr. (“Yes, she’s morose and fatalistic and her self-esteem is taking a hit and she struggles to stay sober, but she had a tragic childhood full of responsibility at a young age and now she has to again take on so much responsibility and she’s just afraid of people getting too close” ugh). 

She questions residents’ and attendings’ authority, but somehow, she always ends up being both righteous and “right.” She’s doing procedures no med student should do, both on her own and at others’ suggestion (Abby can do it; she’s soooooo smart and advanced), and they always end up correct. And it’s always in the better interest of the patient (even when the PATIENT DOESN’T WANT IT). 🙄

And everyone agrees on Abby when they’re doing the “rank to match” thing. And then when they’re talking about patient satisfaction scores, somebody says, “Abby is the only one with decent scores” because of course she is). And the Neonatology attending tells her she’s “one of the best med students she’s ever had” and thinks she should go into the field.

Somebody mentioned the ep where Gamma died, and how Abby made it all about herself and her brother. I remember Carter being incredulous that Abby was going to run off to Eric when HE needed HER (for once), and he says, “go, go get your brother; my grandmother will still be dead” and walks away from her. I applauded his clap back 👏 I was glad he finally said something to her.

And somebody also said something about Sally Field as her mother. Ugh, yes, that ep where she brings everyone orange juice and bagels in that ridiculous dress and shoes and she begin banshee shrieking “Abbyyyyyyy! Abbyyyyyyyyy!” I have to mute the tv until she’s finished.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Birdie
Correct spelling

[Cloud9Shopper]

3 hours ago, Birdie said:

My problem with Abby was first) she had a complete personality transplant between when we first meet her and when she shows up as a series regular. First meeting she’s Carol’s cheerful, encouraging OB delivery nurse; second go round, she’s this cynical, bitter-ass med student/ER nurse. It was just a complete 180, like the writers forgot how they wrote her in the twins’ birth episode. 

Second) she was a Mary Sue who was “great” at everything, and even her “faults” were written so as to be sympathetic and make her appear like this heroic martyr. (“Yes, she’s morose and fatalistic and her self-esteem is taking a hit and she struggles to stay sober, but she had a tragic childhood full of responsibility at a young age and now she has to again take on so much responsibility and she’s just afraid of people getting too close” ugh). 

She questions residents’ and attendings’ authority, but somehow, she always ends up being both righteous and “right.” She’s doing procedures no med student should do, both on her own and at others’ suggestion (Abby can do it; she’s soooooo smart and advanced), and they always end up correct. And it’s always in the better interest of the patient (even when the PATIENT DOESN’T WANT IT). 🙄

And everyone agrees on Abby when they’re doing the “rank to match” thing. And then when they’re talking about patient satisfaction scores, somebody says, “Abby is the only one with decent scores” because of course she is). And the Neonatology attending tells her she’s “one of the best med students she’s ever had” and thinks she should go into the field.

Somebody mentioned the ep where Gamma died, and how Abby made it all about herself and her brother. I remember Carter being incredulous that Abby was going to run off to Eric when HE needed HER (for once), and he says, “go, go get your brother; my grandmother will still be dead” and walks away from her. I applauded his clap back 👏 I was glad he finally said something to her.

And somebody also said something about Sally Field as her mother. Ugh, yes, that ep where she brings everyone orange juice and bagels in that ridiculous dress and shoes and she begin banshee shrieking “Abbyyyyyyy! Abbyyyyyyyyy!” I have to mute the tv until she’s finished.

I have to say I actually do think Sally Field did a good job as Maggie and played bipolar well, though I have no experience with the condition myself. (Although I’m of the age where my first memory of Sally Field would be in Mrs. Doubtfire, then I loved when she popped up in Legally Blonde 2.) I don’t much remember Abby as the best med student ever (will pay attention more next time I rewatch...I zoned out in some of the later seasons), but I think I would have liked her more as more of a supporting character. The Abby as an OB nurse and Abby helping Kerry through Sandy’s death and Kerry’s miscarriage were way more tolerable for me than...what we got. I miss the early days when there women on the show like Lizzie (when she first came from the UK and pre-angst), Anna and Susan, or even Maggie Doyle who were strong women and not at all needy even if they had flaws and life issues. 

I also don’t ship Abby and Luka as much as I did when I was younger. Teenage me thought Luka was drop dead gorgeous and sexy and could see why Abby was drawn to him (I even dabbled in Luby fanfic) but now that I’m watching them together...eh. Like Abby and Luka as individuals, they have their good couple moments, and Luka could have called Abby back about Joe somehow, even if just for five minutes, when Joe got hurt. (I’m sure long distance calling was easier in 2007-2008 than it was when Carol needed a calling card for Seattle.) But now that I’m older, I’m not sure why two people are together when apparently Luka doesn’t even know Abby enough to know she does not want a big surprise wedding.  And I don’t even blame Abby for that! I went to a few family weddings in a string of a few years that were all very laid back, and the couples didn’t even have bridal parties. But it just seemed so odd for Luka to do that. It probably would have been fine if they were the leads in a romantic comedy and this was the plot of a movie. But on ER it just didn’t work for me.

Status Quo (S14 when Jeanie returns) is next in my queue. I’m kind of dreading watching Owner of a Broken Heart because based on what limited reading I’ve done about the episode and YouTube clips, it seems like it’s going to be a bit uncomfortable to watch. I hope I’m wrong. 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[doodlebug]

42 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I have to say I actually do think Sally Field did a good job as Maggie and played bipolar well, though I have no experience with the condition myself. (Although I’m of the age where my first memory of Sally Field would be in Mrs. Doubtfire, then I loved when she popped up in Legally Blonde 2.) I don’t much remember Abby as the best med student ever (will pay attention more next time I rewatch...I zoned out in some of the later seasons), but I think I would have liked her more as more of a supporting character. The Abby as an OB nurse and Abby helping Kerry through Sandy’s death and Kerry’s miscarriage were way more tolerable for me than...what we got. I miss the early days when there women on the show like Lizzie (when she first came from the UK and pre-angst), Anna and Susan, or even Maggie Doyle who were strong women and not at all needy even if they had flaws and life issues. 

I also don’t ship Abby and Luka as much as I did when I was younger. Teenage me thought Luka was drop dead gorgeous and sexy and could see why Abby was drawn to him (I even dabbled in Luby fanfic) but now that I’m watching them together...eh. Like Abby and Luka as individuals, they have their good couple moments, and Luka could have called Abby back about Joe somehow, even if just for five minutes, when Joe got hurt. (I’m sure long distance calling was easier in 2007-2008 than it was when Carol needed a calling card for Seattle.) But now that I’m older, I’m not sure why two people are together when apparently Luka doesn’t even know Abby enough to know she does not want a big surprise wedding.  And I don’t even blame Abby for that! I went to a few family weddings in a string of a few years that were all very laid back, and the couples didn’t even have bridal parties. But it just seemed so odd for Luka to do that. It probably would have been fine if they were the leads in a romantic comedy and this was the plot of a movie. But on ER it just didn’t work for me.

Status Quo (S14 when Jeanie returns) is next in my queue. I’m kind of dreading watching Owner of a Broken Heart because based on what limited reading I’ve done about the episode and YouTube clips, it seems like it’s going to be a bit uncomfortable to watch. I hope I’m wrong. 

 

As I recall, Luka didn't call Abby back because he was with his father in the hospital and couldn't use a cell phone.  Back in the olden days, cell phones could interfere with electronic cardiac monitors and such and most hospitals would have signs telling visitors to turn them off.  Nowadays, the monitors are built so that phones can't interfere, so it doesn't happen anymore.

Owner of a Broken Heart is not one of my favorites, either.  To me, it seemed like I was supposed to feel sorry for Abby that she got drunk and cheated on her husband.  Or, that Luka was a bad husband and father for going to see his dying father.

As far as the surprise wedding, I cannot imagine anyone, man or woman, who would want that.  There is nothing romantic about virtually forcing someone to marry you,  I have no idea why TPTB seemed to think it was so fabulous and special.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Birdie said:

Somebody mentioned the ep where Gamma died, and how Abby made it all about herself and her brother. I remember Carter being incredulous that Abby was going to run off to Eric when HE needed HER (for once), and he says, “go, go get your brother; my grandmother will still be dead” and walks away from her. I applauded his clap back 👏 I was glad he finally said something to her.

I was and am 100% Team Abby in that episode.  What transpires at the funeral is an absolute shit show and she should have done things differently, but back in that moment, she's right.  She has a window in which she can help her brother and, having done that, come back and be an emotional support to Carter.  If she misses that window in order to sit with him, really bad things could happen to her brother.  But Gamma won't get any more dead, and Carter will be okay without her for that while (it sucks no one in his family is there for him that night, but that's on them, not on her).  It's her family vs. his, time sensitive vs. not, and potentially major consequences vs. moderate consequences in evaluating who among the two people who unfortunately need her at the same time she should help first.  So, to me, that equation has a clear answer.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Status Quo (S14 when Jeanie returns)

It was nice to see Jeanie again for that one episode, even if all the regular characters she interacted with or knew were gone by that point.

[ShortyMac]

6 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

It was nice to see Jeanie again for that one episode, even if all the regular characters she interacted with or knew were gone by that point.

Haleh noticed her.

[Hiyo]

Regular cast. Not counting the recurring support staff.

[Birdie]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

was and am 100% Team Abby in that episode.  What transpires at the funeral is an absolute shit show and she should have done things differently, but back in that moment, she's right.  She has a window in which she can help her brother and, having done that, come back and be an emotional support to Carter.  If she misses that window in order to sit with him, really bad things could happen to her brother.  But Gamma won't get any more dead, and Carter will be okay without her for that while (it sucks no one in his family is there for him that night, but that's on them, not on her).  It's her family vs. his, time sensitive vs. not, and potentially major consequences vs. moderate consequences in evaluating who among the two people who unfortunately need her at the same time she should help first.  So, to me, that equation has a clear answer.

I can understand your point. But, up until then, it was always Carter bending over backward to be there for Abby, canceling his plans for her, choosing to go with her to fetch her mother over his girlfriend (I use that loosely though because, really, how serious was he about Rena?), trying to rearrange his work schedule to go here or do this or that for her, etc.

Also, you’d think she’d have the forethought to make sure there was no alcohol in the limo if she was set on bringing Eric to the funeral and keeping him in the car. 

And Eric is an adult; Abby had tried and tried to help him and her mother. You can’t force someone to want or accept your help (an adult anyway; sure you can force a kid); her mother finally accepted she needed her meds for life in order to stay steady, but Eric wasn’t there yet. When was the point supposed to come where Abby wouldn’t be killing herself emotionally trying to save her brother?

I don’t have experience with mentally ill family members, but it just seems like at some point the healthier thing to do for yourself and your life is to step away - not necessarily forever but for the time being. Is Abby supposed to be his babysitter for the rest of his life? Somehow I don’t see Luka being too pleased living with Abby, Joe, and Abby’s brother all in one house...what a strain on the marriage that’d be.

Perhaps Carter should’ve considered all the points you made, but I think at that point he himself was getting pushed to the brink being tied up in Abby’s family drama, and then you throw Gamma’s death on top of him (the one person in his family who he always had a steadfast relationship with, regardless of whether they saw eye to eye or not).

(There isn’t meant to be any snark in my tone toward you; I’m aware over the internet things can come across incorrectly. I am genuinely interested in your reply and perspective to my questions),

[CrazyInAlabama]

What I hated about the Abby and brother at the funeral was that she seemed to think she could make him better.   That was not going to happen.  You can't force someone to accept help.    

[doodlebug]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

I was and am 100% Team Abby in that episode.  What transpires at the funeral is an absolute shit show and she should have done things differently, but back in that moment, she's right.  She has a window in which she can help her brother and, having done that, come back and be an emotional support to Carter.  If she misses that window in order to sit with him, really bad things could happen to her brother.  But Gamma won't get any more dead, and Carter will be okay without her for that while (it sucks no one in his family is there for him that night, but that's on them, not on her).  It's her family vs. his, time sensitive vs. not, and potentially major consequences vs. moderate consequences in evaluating who among the two people who unfortunately need her at the same time she should help first.  So, to me, that equation has a clear answer.

I would argue that there were a lot of things that Abby could've done to help her brother in that moment that did not involve her traipsing off to find him, hoping he would sit in a diner for hours and hours and wait for her.  Abby was the queen of dumb ideas when it comes to her family and her insistence on being the only one to step in and rescue them herself repeatedly led to bad things happening.  Her brother had been out on the road for many months at that point and nothing terrible had happened to him; he was not threatening suicide nor in the hands of kidnappers.  Sure, something bad might've happened to him in the next few hours, but that was very unlikely.  As it was, Abby brought him back to Chicago so the bad things could happen there- at Gamma's funeral.

I'd also disagree that Carter was only upset that Abby was running after her brother.  Her complete inability to see his pain and sorrow at the loss of  his grandmother was what set him off, IMO.  She essentially told him 'too bad your grandmother's dead, no time for that, you need to handle MY problem'.  I think that is what prompted his flippant response that his grandmother would still be dead when she got back.  Her lack of empathy for the problems of others was a big part of her character.  See also: Luka's father is dying, how dare he expect Abby to handle things herself?

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, Birdie said:

 

I don’t have experience with mentally ill family members, but it just seems like at some point the healthier thing to do for yourself and your life is to step away - not necessarily forever but for the time being. Is Abby supposed to be his babysitter for the rest of his life? Somehow I don’t see Luka being too pleased living with Abby, Joe, and Abby’s brother all in one house...what a strain on the marriage that’d be.

 

I do have a mentally ill family member, a bipolar brother, in fact.  It was the way Abby treated her mother and brother that turned me off the character.  No attempt to understand their POV, no respect or caring for them as human beings.  Just bullying and attempts to get them locked up and out of her way.  Her behavior was selfish and actually harmed them and interfered with getting them real care for their problems.

And, yes, even mentally ill people are entitled to autonomy.  Ask me if my brother is going to take my advice and get a COVID vaccine.  I'm entitled to my opinion, he is entitled to his.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Birdie said:

Perhaps Carter should’ve considered all the points you made, but I think at that point he himself was getting pushed to the brink being tied up in Abby’s family drama, and then you throw Gamma’s death on top of him (the one person in his family who he always had a steadfast relationship with, regardless of whether they saw eye to eye or not).

Of course he was; there's nothing wrong with Carter's reaction, and his choices are right for him based on the circumstances.  (I didn't say Carter should have engaged in that analysis, I said that's how my analysis of the scene puts me in the camp that doesn't think Abby made the wrong choice.)  And there's nothing wrong with Abby's, and her choices are right for her based on the circumstances.

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I do have a mentally ill family member, a bipolar brother, in fact.  It was the way Abby treated her mother and brother that turned me off the character.  No attempt to understand their POV, no respect or caring for them as human beings.  Just bullying and attempts to get them locked up and out of her way.  Her behavior was selfish and actually harmed them and interfered with getting them real care for their problems.

In fairness to Abby, my recollection is that she had been dealing with her mother's issues since childhood, and was essentially made to be the adult while her mother cycled through periods of stability, followed by meltdowns and suicide attempts.  I could see why Abby felt both a duty to her mother, but was eager to put her somewhere, where she couldn't just show up and blow up Abby's life, regardless of what was necessarily best for her.   

[doodlebug]

25 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

In fairness to Abby, my recollection is that she had been dealing with her mother's issues since childhood, and was essentially made to be the adult while her mother cycled through periods of stability, followed by meltdowns and suicide attempts.  I could see why Abby felt both a duty to her mother, but was eager to put her somewhere, where she couldn't just show up and blow up Abby's life, regardless of what was necessarily best for her.   

I understand that Abby's childhood was terrible, but, by the time of the show, she was in her mid 30's.  I got the feeling she wanted to punish her mother, to make her suffer apparently in retaliation for being sick and messing up her childhood.  By the time we saw Abby, she'd been a full grown adult for more than a decade.  By that point, her free pass for having a bad childhood had expired.  She either needed to cut her mother out of her life completely if she was unable to treat her with respect and dignity or get some therapy, grow up and be an adult about it.  She behaved like a vindictive teen with her mother and, to an extent, her brother.  They didn't deserve it anymore than they'd deserve to be shunned if they had cancer or diabetes or any other illness,

35 years old and still pouting because your mommy was sick and couldn't take good care of you  when you were a little girl is not a good look for anyone.

Edited April 13, 2021 by doodlebug

[txhorns79]

46 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

35 years old and still pouting because your mommy was sick and couldn't take good care of you  when you were a little girl is not a good look for anyone. 

I mean, to me, that seems very dismissive of what happened to Abby.  From what I recall Abby describing, she didn't have much of a childhood to mess up.  Her mother was unstable, occasionally violent and it was left to Abby to make the household work and raise her brother.  That type of situation is an ongoing nightmare for a child, and it didn't suddenly stop when Abby became an adult.  I would agree Abby should have gotten help to deal with her justifiable anger and resentment.  However, just like Abby needed to be a grown up, Maggie's bipolar disorder did not give her a pass with how she behaved towards her children during their childhood and when they were adults.  She chose to go off her meds again and again.       

[Hiyo]

Quote

35 years old and still pouting because your mommy was sick and couldn't take good care of you  when you were a little girl is not a good look for anyone.

It is an understandable one.

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I understand that Abby's childhood was terrible, but, by the time of the show, she was in her mid 30's.  I got the feeling she wanted to punish her mother, to make her suffer apparently in retaliation for being sick and messing up her childhood.  By the time we saw Abby, she'd been a full grown adult for more than a decade.  By that point, her free pass for having a bad childhood had expired.  She either needed to cut her mother out of her life completely if she was unable to treat her with respect and dignity or get some therapy, grow up and be an adult about it.  She behaved like a vindictive teen with her mother and, to an extent, her brother.  They didn't deserve it anymore than they'd deserve to be shunned if they had cancer or diabetes or any other illness,

35 years old and still pouting because your mommy was sick and couldn't take good care of you  when you were a little girl is not a good look for anyone.

I’m 35 now myself, and even teenage me couldn’t stand the way Abby acted towards her mother. I have very limited experience with mental illness and addictions (it mostly comes secondhand, although my mom was in mental illness treatment when I was six or seven and was nothing like Maggie so I have very very little memory of it), so I won’t pretend to know anything about bipolar disorder. But that said, I know a fair amount of people who have had issues with alcoholic family members (my uncle was an alcoholic who ended up dead and never wanted help, though he and my aunt lived 2.5 hours away and I wasn’t super close to them anyway), or mental health diagnoses themselves or other life difficulties.  None of them have acted as miserable and “feel sorry for me” as Abby did...not even my grandmother when she lost her own son five years after her husband had died. 

I wanted to sympathize with Abby with her mother and brother and her alcoholism now that I’m an adult. And yes it is great that she tells Luka she needs help and goes to rehab and tells her coworkers. But beyond that, I just can’t like her. 

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I mean, to me, that seems very dismissive of what happened to Abby.  From what I recall Abby describing, she didn't have much of a childhood to mess up.  Her mother was unstable, occasionally violent and it was left to Abby to make the household work and raise her brother.  That type of situation is an ongoing nightmare for a child, and it didn't suddenly stop when Abby became an adult.  I would agree Abby should have gotten help to deal with her justifiable anger and resentment.  However, just like Abby needed to be a grown up, Maggie's bipolar disorder did not give her a pass with how she behaved towards her children during their childhood and when they were adults.  She chose to go off her meds again and again.       

Maggie did not choose to be bipolar and the meds have a lot of side effects.  Also, one of the side effects of bipolar disorder is a lack of judgment when it comes to taking the meds or not. " Being manic is fun, right up until you wake up in jail" is something my own dear brother has said to me. And, he should know, it's happened more than once.  Blaming Maggie for being bipolar and not being compliant with her meds is not useful and it ignores the reality of this particular illness.  One of the insidious things about this particular disease is that the illness itself leads to poor compliance with treatment.  I get that Abby didn't realize it as a little girl, but she should've come to that realization by the time she was an adult and, if she really couldn't find a way to forgive her mother for being sick, she needed to get out of her life.

If Abby needed to be angry at someone, perhaps she should've singled out her deadbeat father who apparently deserted her and her brother despite the fact that he knew their mother was not capable of providing consistent care for them.  There was that one episode where Abby met up with him in a bar and he was never seen again, but I sure didn't see her spending much time being angry that he was so irresponsible and put her and her brother in such jeopardy.

As for it 'being left to Abby'; we saw Abby's response to anyone who didn't want things done her way.  The best option for her and her brother, in the circumstance, was most likely foster care.  However, we saw how Abby felt about that.  Remember the time the underage girl was driving her drunken mother home and got in an accident?  Abby lied for her and kept the evil social workers away; letting the kid return to a dangerous and emotionally damaging situation. 

Abby's opinion was that she herself was smarter, more capable and just all around better than anyone else at deciding how they should live their lives; whether it was her mother, her brother, her patients.  A major character flaw and not necessarily stemming from her crappy childhood.  She had massive control issues, perhaps due to her chaotic childhood; but, once again, not Maggie's fault either.

Edited April 13, 2021 by doodlebug

[Cloud9Shopper]

@doodlebug I love all the various medical insights you give in this thread. It was a great read for me while I was getting caught up, as someone who could never handle working in healthcare (my mom and sister are both mental health nurses, though, and my grandmother was a hospital nurse way back when), to learn what ER got right and got wrong. Keep it up! 
 

Now that you mention that about Abby, I also wonder how she got through nursing and medical school and having a psychiatric rotation (where surely she’d study mental illness through a lens besides her own experiences) but still turned out all “woe is me.” Like I said, with my uncle (my mom’s brother), my mom ended up working in addictions. Nursing was a late career change for her, so addictions/behavioral health has been her career. Even though alcoholism killed her brother she doesn’t act like a toddler and let it interfere with her work or her relationship with me or my siblings or my stepfather. It’s been 16 years, so maybe that has something to do with it. Such a contrast on the show with a character like Susan who had to deal with Chloe’s bullshit but somehow did it without running her own life right off the rails and dragging down everyone at County. 

 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Maggie did not choose to be bipolar and the meds have a lot of side effects.  Also, one of the side effects of bipolar disorder is a lack of judgment when it comes to taking the meds or not. " Being manic is fun, right up until you wake up in jail" is something my own dear brother has said to me. And, he should know, it's happened more than once.  Blaming Maggie for being bipolar and not being compliant with her meds is not useful and it ignores the reality of this particular illness.  One of the insidious things about this particular disease is that the illness itself leads to poor compliance with treatment.  I get that Abby didn't realize it as a little girl, but she should've come to that realization by the time she was an adult and, if she really couldn't find a way to forgive her mother for being sick, she needed to get out of her life.

I appreciate your insights into this, but I think we will just have to agree to disagree. 

 

10 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Such a contrast on the show with a character like Susan who had to deal with Chloe’s bullshit but somehow did it without running her own life right off the rails and dragging down everyone at County. 

Susan's life was run off the rails by Chloe.  She had a baby abandoned to her care, and had to completely restructure her life to make it work.  Once she did make it work, Chloe returned, suddenly all better, then took the kid back.  It was devastating for Susan. 

[doodlebug]

6 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I appreciate your insights into this, but I think we will just have to agree to disagree. 

 

Susan's life was run off the rails by Chloe.  She had a baby abandoned to her care, and had to completely restructure her life to make it work.  Once she did make it work, Chloe returned, suddenly all better, then took the kid back.  It was devastating for Susan. 

True, but Susan dealt with it like a grown up.  She sought counseling, she worked at not being bitter and angry.  For Abby, bitter and angry was her default.  She seemed to wallow in her misery and liked to make sure everyone knew how unhappy she was.  Even when her mother and brother weren't around, Abby was miserable.  

Edited April 13, 2021 by doodlebug

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

True, but Susan dealt with it like a grown up.  She sought counseling, she worked at not being bitter and angry.  For Abby, bitter and angry was her default.  She seemed to wallow in her misery and liked to make sure everyone knew how unhappy she was.  Even when her mother and brother weren't around, Abby was miserable.  

This is what I was trying to say...just poorly articulated. Thanks! I really did not like Chloe anymore than Abby, either. Susan also says when she came back in S8 that she didn’t see it worth it to follow her family around anymore so it seems she did separate herself from the situation at some point. Of the three addicts on this show (Abby, Carter, and Coburn), I just sympathize with Abby the least. We don’t get enough info on Coburn to know for sure whether she’s really changed or not (seems to me like she has based on my spoiler readings but I’ll reserve judgment until I watch Owner of a Broken Heart), and Carter’s rehab and recovery storyline was dropped after early S7, but it seems like he was able to stay clean and try to give himself a good life. Not to mention that even before the stabbing he had to deal with Chase’s addiction. He lost a brother when he was young. His child was stillborn. Carter had his own issues but even then he didn’t eat the show alive with his misery. (Thank you @CrazyInAlabama for reminding me that Carter throws up pills and confesses. I stand corrected!)  
 

I’m happy to agree to disagree with Abby fans, though. That’s the Internet for you. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper
Forgot the facts

[CrazyInAlabama]

As I recall, Carter had one relapse with pills, a patient came in with a lot of pills, and Carter took a few, but forced himself to vomit them back up.   He finally told Kerry (or maybe Mark), and had to get back to square one with more supervision.    

[Cloud9Shopper]

11 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

As I recall, Carter had one relapse with pills, a patient came in with a lot of pills, and Carter took a few, but forced himself to vomit them back up.   He finally told Kerry (or maybe Mark), and had to get back to square one with more supervision.    

Yes I just realized that and forgot to edit. My bad...I think my brain has finally burned out on a year-plus of work from home. (Which has its perks but my moods since February have been fluctuating.) Thank you! 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[readster]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

If Abby needed to be angry at someone, perhaps she should've singled out her deadbeat father who apparently deserted her and her brother despite the fact that he knew their mother was not capable of providing consistent care for them.  There was that one episode where Abby met up with him in a bar and he was never seen again, but I sure didn't see her spending much time being angry that he was so irresponsible and put her and her brother in such jeopardy.

 

I agree, it was not a well written scene at all. Abby was more of: "Eh" than actually either chewing him out or really wanting to know what the hell he was thinking. 

[Quof]

Mark your calendars, virtual reunion of most of the big names, and some of the smaller ones, on April 22. 

https://twitter.com/StarsInTheHouse/status/1382015482644029445?s=20

[Cloud9Shopper]

17 minutes ago, Quof said:

Mark your calendars, virtual reunion of most of the big names, and some of the smaller ones, on April 22. 

https://twitter.com/StarsInTheHouse/status/1382015482644029445?s=20

This has me so excited! I love that the supporting nurses and Hicks are going to be there! I was actually watching two episodes of SVU the other night where CCH Pounder and Alex Kingston guest starred back to back. I left it on just to see them, I swear haha. 

[debraran]

Julianna has a new book!

https://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Girl-Unexpected-Julianna-Margulies-ebook/dp/B08FZM9WB2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=27QJX6D6IMUVC&dchild=1&keywords=julianna+margulies&qid=1618359370&sprefix=julianne+marg%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-1

31 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

This has me so excited! I love that the supporting nurses and Hicks are going to be there! I was actually watching two episodes of SVU the other night where CCH Pounder and Alex Kingston guest starred back to back. I left it on just to see them, I swear haha. 

Thanks for the heads up! Will love to see my old friends again. ; )

[Gigi43]

1 hour ago, Quof said:

Mark your calendars, virtual reunion of most of the big names, and some of the smaller ones, on April 22. 

https://twitter.com/StarsInTheHouse/status/1382015482644029445?s=20

 

I love Clooney is so loyal to the show.  I think after Hell Or High Water pulled in the monster numbers a lot of actors would have pulled a David Caruso.

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

 

I love Clooney is so loyal to the show.  I think after Hell Or High Water pulled in the monster numbers a lot of actors would have pulled a David Caruso.

George really does seem to be a stand-up guy.  Very admirable.

[ShortyMac]

On 4/13/2021 at 3:04 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

As I recall, Carter had one relapse with pills, a patient came in with a lot of pills, and Carter took a few, but forced himself to vomit them back up.   He finally told Kerry (or maybe Mark), and had to get back to square one with more supervision.    

Just as a note, when Abby finally joined Luka and Joe in Croatia after rehab, she had to start her supervision over, as well, because she couldn’t be monitored while overseas. 

[Quof]

On 4/13/2021 at 9:57 PM, Gigi43 said:

I love Clooney is so loyal to the show

I didn't appreciate Clooney back in the day. But he is aging like a fine wine......

For those who aren't familiar with Stars in the House, it's live at 8:00 pm Eastern but lives forever on YouTube.    It's normally 90 minutes, and I don't know how this many people are possibly going to speak in that brief time.  (The Thirty Something reunion was a shit show because they all talked over each other).  I expect some on the minor players will only pop in briefly, with the leads sticking around for the whole show.  

(Stars in the House has helped keep me sane for the last 13 months, I miss Broadway).

Edited April 15, 2021 by Quof

[debraran]

10 hours ago, Quof said:

I didn't appreciate Clooney back in the day. But he is aging like a fine wine......

For those who aren't familiar with Stars in the House, it's live at 8:00 pm Eastern but lives forever on YouTube.    It's normally 90 minutes, and I don't know how this many people are possibly going to speak in that brief time.  (The Thirty Something reunion was a shit show because they all talked over each other).  I expect some on the minor players will only pop in briefly, with the leads sticking around for the whole show.  

(Stars in the House has helped keep me sane for the last 13 months, I miss Broadway).

So do I, last show I saw was Les Miserable. ; (    I tried to watch Thirty Something but it was awful. I had to turn it off after 10 min. I FF and it didn't seem to get better. I"ve seen a few of those type of shows and they vary greatly. Actually one on Little House I found on youtube with 6 or 8 old actors wasn't bad. One person got about 2 sentences but the rest were polite. MASH had one too that I enjoyed. I think ER will be okay with some of them promoting what they are doing, shows, movies, and Juliana's book coming out soon. I wont FF through this one I'm sure.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Doing some Saturday night viewing with episodes 11-13 of Season 14. Thank goodness episodes 11 and 13 are Abby-free! 
 

I thought it was nice to see Jeanie again in Status Quo and liked her interactions with Haleh. I also originally liked her and Reggie together and wish the show had left them married. Sad she’s gone through so much.

I know @doodlebug mentioned this tons of pages back (but I really like her insights) but I was just kind of baffled in Believe the Unseen when Abby is sitting in front of the board and they tell her all requirements she has to meet, and then she just sits there all nonchalantly and asks for another leave of absence which is automatically granted. I admit that most of my career has been spent in office jobs so I’m not familiar with medicine, but even in most of the offices I worked in, someone taking that much leave wouldn’t be a desirable employee. Even legitimate absences are only so up to a certain point. You’d think Abby would be falling all over herself to prove herself again after her relapse and instead she’s just all chill like oh I need to leave for Croatia tomorrow. Huh? And then she just blows off Sam when she asks if she drank at work because Sam wasn’t falling all over her to hug her. It reminds me of back in S2 (I think) when Chloe is trying to tell Susan she’s changed but Susan isn’t convinced. 

Can Harold (Neela’s intern) please leave already? I cannot stand this character. He reminds me of a socially awkward kid from high school or the star of one of those one-star movies that somehow airs on TBS all the time. I know he’s 19 but it’s unbearable.  I don’t mind the hockey subplot like I thought but I’m a figure skater (non-comeptitive, just for fun) and encounter annoying hockey types all the time at the rink, including when they’re somehow allowed to use hockey skates on our freestyle ice. 
 

In Believe the Unseen, I did like the subplot with the former Rockette Gates was treating and how much she loved the good looking doctors. She reminded me of my grandmother! 
 

I cannot wait until this Abby relapse story is done with. I’m going to bed after S14, episode 13 so I’ll have to save the dreaded episode 14 for another night.  

Edited April 18, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Kel Varnsen]

So we finally started season 13 after a very long slog through season 12. I like seeing Weaver back in the ER although I am not sure I buy her falling on her sword so hard to save Luka. It is also interesting watching it with a 2020 viewpoint. Since as annoying as Clemente was it seems like he had some kind of psychotic episode or issue. Punishing Weaver for that seems like something that would not really fly today.

Also as much as I thought I hated super know it all intern Abby, intern Stamos is way worse. He has the know it all attitude, trying to teach other residents and manage patients by himself thing that Abby did. Plus he also had the annoying cocky attitude that Prat used to have. Plus I looked it up and this season came out after the final season of Deadwood. And I can't believe that Paula Malcomson went from the awesome role of Trixie to being Stamos's (I think) girlfriend or something.

The only thing I liked so far is Sam shooting her stupid Ex.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Doing some Saturday night viewing with episodes 11-13 of Season 14. Thank goodness episodes 11 and 13 are Abby-free! 
 

I thought it was nice to see Jeanie again in Status Quo and liked her interactions with Haleh. I also originally liked her and Reggie together and wish the show had left them married. Sad she’s gone through so much.

I know @doodlebug mentioned this tons of pages back (but I really like her insights) but I was just kind of baffled in Believe the Unseen when Abby is sitting in front of the board and they tell her all requirements she has to meet, and then she just sits there all nonchalantly and asks for another leave of absence which is automatically granted. I admit that most of my career has been spent in office jobs so I’m not familiar with medicine, but even in most of the offices I worked in, someone taking that much leave wouldn’t be a desirable employee. Even legitimate absences are only so up to a certain point. You’d think Abby would be falling all over herself to prove herself again after her relapse and instead she’s just all chill like oh I need to leave for Croatia tomorrow. Huh?

Thanks for the kind words.  In real life, Abby would be entitled to bereavement time due to the death of her father in law, but, at least the hospital where I work, would only give 3 days, no matter where the funeral was held.  And the funeral would've been over weeks ago anyway.

As far as needing leave due to her alcoholism, it is an illness, like any other.  If she had the practitioners treating her illness advise her that she needed a longer leave of absence and sign the disability paperwork, the hospital would have to grant it.

I think Abby was still a resident at the time she relapsed.  Recall that she took quite an extended maternity leave when Joe was born about a year earlier, too.  It seemed like Joe was around 4 months old or more before she went back to work then.  If she was then in an alcohol treatment center for a month, which is typical; she would've already missed at least 5 months of her residency in about a year.

Residency isn't considered to just be a job, it is also educational.  Just as regular schools keep track of absences and can refuse to pass a student on to the next grade if their attendance is spotty, same with residency.  At the time I was a resident, about a decade before Abby finished; we had an absolute number of days that we had to have worked in any given year.  In my day, if we took more than 6 weeks off, in any combination of sick leave and or vacation; we were required to repeat the entire year.  So, Abby would've owed County at least one more year and potentially two before she would be able to get her certificate of completion of her ER residency.  It doesn't matter how long she worked as a nurse, how great a med student or resident she was or the fact that she screwed at least 2 ER Chiefs, there are national boards who oversee residents and they set the rules.

During my residency, one of my fellow residents was diagnosed with a glioblastoma, same tumor as Mark.  He couldn't work the last 6 months of his last year.  Our residency program director had to petition the national OB/GYN board to request permission to give him his certificate of completion anyway as he was dying and was never going to practice.  They agreed, he died a few weeks before the end of the residency and his widow got his certificate.

As time has gone on (and more women have entered residencies and dared to give birth during them), the rules have been modified somewhat and now a resident who takes a leave for legitimate reasons only has to make up the portion that is missed, not the whole year.  Even so, Abby would still have needed to hang around at least 6 months longer than she did on the show.  Thank heavens for TV inaccuracy.

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I think Abby being a resident when she relapsed is correct because she graduated at the end of S10. And from my limited knowledge of residency it seems like she’d be in her third or fourth year. 
 

Just to clarify I’m not saying she shouldn’t have gotten time off for rehab. That is understandable. I just think it was strange that instead of really wanting to prove herself, her first move was to ask for two more weeks off to go see Luka. Although yes the three days for bereavement for an in-law or other more distant relative would be true to offices I’ve worked in as well. I think I got one bereavement day at the company I was at in 2015 when my grandmother died. 
 

I just finished laughing my ass off at the hockey fight in Atonement (S14, episode 13). I’m a hockey fan and have friends who have played and worked as rec league officials. Have heard stories about guys around the staff’s age who can barely skate and use D-League as a way to live out their glory days and bitch at the refs like they’re tough guys. I mean, yeah the hockey fight showed how absurd the show had really gotten but I was dying nonetheless.

Also, Dubenko and Wexler need to get out of town already. Can’t stand watching those two sex it up. Just when I thought nothing was worse than Peter and Cleo. 

 

[doodlebug]

10 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I think Abby being a resident when she relapsed is correct because she graduated at the end of S10. And from my limited knowledge of residency it seems like she’d be in her third or fourth year. 
 

Just to clarify I’m not saying she shouldn’t have gotten time off for rehab. That is understandable. I just think it was strange that instead of really wanting to prove herself, her first move was to ask for two more weeks off to go see Luka. Although yes the three days for bereavement for an in-law or other more distant relative would be true to offices I’ve worked in as well. I think I got one bereavement day at the company I was at in 2015 when my grandmother died. 
 

Well, a lack of humility and having no empathy or concern for the feelings of others were consistent parts of Abby's personality; so I guess it makes sense that she would expect that the bosses would kiss her feet for deigning to return at all and beg her to please take even more time off.

When I was a resident, one of my fellow residents was being treated for depression and frequently took unexpected, last minute, leaves of absence due to her problems, supposedly on the advice of psychiatrists. She would literally call the Chief resident at 7 AM on a workday and tell him she wasn't coming in for the next 2 weeks, this happened multiple times in less than 2 years. The first couple times, we all were very understanding, but, by the 4th, 5th and 6th time; our patience had worn thin.  It seemed she always needed extra time just when it was her turn to be on weekend call or in the middle of the summer when we were training interns and run ragged or just before Christmas.  Because of the way residencies work, we would have to pick up extra night and weekend shifts to cover for her.  Then, she would return from her medical leave, tanned and happy, with tales of how wonderful it was to lie on the beach for a week and how much fun it was to visit family and friends.  And, never a word of thanks or an offer to help any of us, ever.  One time, she returned for less than a week, only to leave again on a scheduled vacation, no concern about how the rest of us would handle things. It wore very thin and we were actually relieved when she left the residency after her second year (our program director gently guided her out the door, really).  It was easier not to have her around at all than to put up with the unpredictability.  I'd imagine Abby's fellow residents were feeling the same about her at that point.

Edited April 18, 2021 by doodlebug

[Dr.OO7]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/julianna-margulies-admits-she-george-131500810.html

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/julianna-margulies-admits-she-george-131500810.html

The only admission I would want to read fr Juliana Margulies is one about what actually happened between her and Archie Panjabi behind the scenes of the good wife.

Also I am 7 episodes into season 13 and how is it that the only conversation that Busy Phillips and Linda Cardellini have had is Sam getting mad at Hope for giving out some drugs without Weaver's approval?

[doodlebug]

13 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The only admission I would want to read fr Juliana Margulies is one about what actually happened between her and Archie Panjabi behind the scenes of the good wife.

Also I am 7 episodes into season 13 and how is it that the only conversation that Busy Phillips and Linda Cardellini have had is Sam getting mad at Hope for giving out some drugs without Weaver's approval?

Don't we all want to know what went down between Juliana and Archie? They had such great friend chemistry; once Juliana refused to even appear in the same scene as her; the show was much less interesting to me.  That they couldn't even be filmed at the same time in a farewell scene for the finale doesn't say anything good about Julianna's professionalism and maturity.  Since Juliana was the star of the show, I presume she wanted things that way which is why I am mostly blaming her.

And, yes, for Linda and Busy to not at least have had some vague passing mention of their high school days as freaks and/or geeks was a real missed opportunity.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Don't we all want to know what went down between Juliana and Archie? They had such great friend chemistry; once Juliana refused to even appear in the same scene as her; the show was much less interesting to me.  That they couldn't even be filmed at the same time in a farewell scene for the finale doesn't say anything good about Julianna's professionalism and maturity.  Since Juliana was the star of the show, I presume she wanted things that way which is why I am mostly blaming her.

And, yes, for Linda and Busy to not at least have had some vague passing mention of their high school days as freaks and/or geeks was a real missed opportunity.

I only watched a season of The Good Fight but didn't want to pay for the later seasons but it was good. I know she was very adamant that if they didn't up the pay, even for a guest spot she wouldn't do it after The Good Wife.  Even when they said couldn't pay the same with a smaller budget she kept to her guns. I understand on one level but even a day ? I guess she couldn't give in later without it looking like she caved.

I wont pay full price to read her book, not much I care about or probably haven't read already but nostalgia might bring her in some money.

I know Archie got an Emmy nod before Julianne. I know they tried to lie about feud but it is silly two adults have to be so childish.  I have a feeling someone's ego got a little too big or maybe it was about something outside of work. I read once on a TV show someone slept with someone's boyfriend and she was devastated. It made it hard for her to work with her but she tried. This had some minor tidbits.

https://celebrity.nine.com.au/latest/the-good-wife-feud-julianna-margulies-archie-panjabi-everything-we-know/2f51fbff-c673-4c92-9945-0aeb1b36ae3a

Edited April 22, 2021 by debraran

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

That they couldn't even be filmed at the same time in a farewell scene for the finale doesn't say anything good about Julianna's professionalism and maturity.  Since Juliana was the star of the show, I presume she wanted things that way which is why I am mostly blaming her.

I think she was also getting a producer credit at that point so it seems like she if anyone had enough clout to make something happen or not happen. That said I would still totally read her biased account of what happened. Now there obviously was something since the original ER cast seemed to get along with rash other pretty well.

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

And, yes, for Linda and Busy to not at least have had some vague passing mention of their high school days as freaks and/or geeks was a real missed opportunity.

It's weird. I mean I know not a lot of people watched freaks and geeks. But at the same time Linda and Busy worked great together on that show. And the director of Kim Kelly is My Friend regularly directed ER episodes. How do you not put them in more scenes together.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Anyone else watching the reunion live? I’m having a ton of fun already! So much nostalgia. :)