All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[RedbirdNelly]

I may remember incorrectly but I thought the Green/Chuney break up was mutual. 

I could not stand Greene with Cynthia. She grated on my nerves. I do appreciate the actress a lot after seeing her on Law and Order. Sometimes I wrongly assume the actress is just using their normal, annoying voice. 

[doodlebug]

10 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I may remember incorrectly but I thought the Green/Chuney break up was mutual. 

I could not stand Greene with Cynthia. She grated on my nerves. I do appreciate the actress a lot after seeing her on Law and Order. Sometimes I wrongly assume the actress is just using their normal, annoying voice. 

Yeah, I believe Chuny found Mark to be a bit boring.  After their initial fling, the excitement wore off quickly and neither one was sad when it didn't last.

[Kel Varnsen]

22 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Mark saw her as some sort of idealized woman because of it and had more of a crush than actual love for her.  In the long run, I don't think they would've been compatible.  Susan just happened to fill a particular role for him at an opportune time, it wouldn't have held up over the long haul.

Yea I saw it as an idealized thing for Mark. He just got divorced and said that the only serious relationship he had ever been in was with his wife. He worked mostly with Susan and because they were both residents they had a lot of the same background so lots of stuff in common. On top of that since they worked together their time off often lined up so they hung out a lot. Plus since he had no life outside work he would more likely be interested in someone he works with and Susan was really the only eligible person there (Carol was his best friend's ex so not really an option). And since they did just mostly hang out as friends they never really fought like a couple in a relationship might.

Plus as I mentioned previously Susan was pretty hot, especially when not in a lab coat or PPE. So put all that together and I can see how a dumb, recently divorced Mark might think she was the perfect woman for him.

3 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I may remember incorrectly but I thought the Green/Chuney break up was mutual. 

I just watched that one. He wants to break up with her and talks to Doug about it. Doug tells him a nice way to say it and when Mark goes to talk to her she says the exact same thing to him before he can say anything.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I saw the Mark/Cynthia relationship as Mark had the hots for her, and she slept with him, so it was a fling for him, but she was serious.    I didn't like the way he treated her when she came out to help at his parent's house after his mother was sick.     He was just using her, and she finally realized it.  

[debraran]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I saw the Mark/Cynthia relationship as Mark had the hots for her, and she slept with him, so it was a fling for him, but she was serious.    I didn't like the way he treated her when she came out to help at his parent's house after his mother was sick.     He was just using her, and she finally realized it.  

I saw that at the hospital sometimes. Some of the docs would date or hook up with people they wouldn't marry (or some thought) because it was easier. I knew a girl who was a clerical worker, who went out with a resident and he used her for sex mostly, when she wanted to go to dinner to something more substantial, always work excuses. When she broke up with him he said to me "I just wanted fun" but it wasn't that. There was a lack of respect , he didn't treat other women residents like that.  That was the only time I saw Mark show that same attitude. His wife made a jab at her too with a smile and he looked ashamed (forget what it was) and that bothered me. Doug who dated anyone "in a bra" as Carol put it was discouraging too. Now they made Cynthia very annoying with that fake voice and I don't know why. Was it an over the top obvious ploy to have her seem dense?  The actress could have done it without that. But Mark was human and not perfect, most of the time he was a good guy. I'm glad Cynthia said she deserved better after she miraculously got her son back. ; )

[littlebennysmom]

On 9/23/2020 at 2:19 AM, PepSinger said:

A couple of weeks ago, Pop aired the episodes with Benton where he was supposed to attend his mother's birthday party; he switches shifts to spend a couple of days with her; then, he hasn't slept in over 24 hours, so Hicks forces him to lie down somewhere before touching another patient. I do not understand why Peter's family couldn't understand why he couldn't just take off on his mother's birthday. They act completely oblivious to the fact that residents have very little control over their schedules. I feel so bad for Peter that he then takes off for two days to spend time with his mother. I always wondered if his family even appreciated that? Yes, he acts like a dick with Hicks and definitely needed some sleep, but watching this as an older adult, I do feel bad for him. I think he really tried to be there for his mother as best he could.

I always laugh and think "what planet were the writers on?"  It seems they wrote all of the doctors and nurses to have someone in their life that doesn't get the fact they hold people's lives in their hands.  So unrealistic as they would and should be told off and kicked to the curb.

 

Abby's mother's visits were always so ridiculous to me, she needed to be tackled at the first high pitch, "AB-BEEEEE!"  And I know it's a bit of a tangent, but WTF with Sam's delinquent son stealing someone's severed finger (!) and him having zero consequences?  Her and her child were terribly unlikable characters to me 

Edited October 13, 2020 by littlebennysmom
auto correct error

[littlebennysmom]

On 9/25/2020 at 11:36 AM, deaja said:

Okay, just because in one of my recent posts I said I find Kerri much more sympathetic now that I'm older and possibly wiser, but she's pissed me off with this handling of the Jing-Mei situation.  All about covering for herself when she knows she didn't have her pager.  

Yeah, it was so cowardly. 

[Danny Franks]

On 10/8/2020 at 1:39 AM, Hava said:

Do you guys think Susan ever had feelings for Mark? When she first left, Mark told her he loved her and asked her if she didn't feel the same and she responded with "I'm sorry." And then when she came back, she told Carter that Mark was like a big brother to her and that she never reciprocated his feelings. 

It makes me sad if true because I was rooting for Susan and Mark and, even after she left, I thought their story was one of star-crossed lovers. I wonder if the writers just retconned it because of Sherry Springfield's decision to leave. 

I still wish she'd stayed, and they'd built the show around her. Sherry Stringfield had a real vitality and energy that centred the show, in those first three seasons. She's so good, so fun and engaging, but she always got pushed to the back so the show could deal with Mark's milquetoast problems, Doug's self-destruction and Benton's determination to alienate everyone around him.

I guess it should be no surprise that those three men were always considered more important by the writers, but it's sad.

She was attracted to Mark at one time. Remember when she invited him on holiday, and did mean it romantically, but they each second-guessed the other to the point that they mutually uninvited him. But it would have felt like her just settling for something comfortable and reliable, rather than having true passion for him.

On 10/8/2020 at 1:50 AM, Hava said:

Thank you for this! I could not believe the reason Mark ended it with Chuney is that they had nothing to talk about, and the next thing he is with Cynthia, who is a receptionist, and didn't seem to have that problem (gee, I wonder if that is because Cynthia was white). I really enjoyed Mark/Chuney together and was pleasantly surprised the show went there to only be hugely disappointed that it ended so quickly. 

I figured that Chuney realised how colossally dull Mark was, and didn't want to spend any more time with him. In that respect, Cynthia was perfect for him.

Mark's best romantic interest was the psychiatrist played by Jami Gertz, who disappeared after Mark was attacked in season three. I don't know if they couldn't keep her around, or whether Mark's PTSD storyline required she not be around, but that's another shame.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Danny Franks

[littlebennysmom]

On 10/4/2020 at 2:39 AM, Hava said:

Just watched the episode where Malucci is fired. Up to this point, I was a Weaver defender. I knew she stickler that made other doctors' lives miserable, but, I had always felt that she was in a tough position and just doing her job in managing an ER where the number one priority is patient care. But with Malucci's firing, that was just vindictive and selfish (scapegoating him for the death earlier). Malucci was childish, but I thought it was obvious he was good-natured. And when it really came down to doing the work, he did it. 

Her point of him being a liability was an absolutely valid one.  He was overconfident, disrespectful and socially tone deaf, besides being a medical cowboy that would be sure to cost a hospital millions in malpractice and sexual harassment suits.  Way more trouble than he was worth.

Edited October 13, 2020 by littlebennysmom

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, littlebennysmom said:

Her point of him being a liability was an absolutely valid one.  He was overconfident, disrespectful and socially tone deaf, besides being a medical cowboy that would be sure to cost a hospital millions in malpractice and sexual harassment suits.  Way more trouble than he was worth.

All of those things are true, but that isn't why Kerry fired him.  Malucci was fired to deflect attention away from Kerry's part in the tragedy and to give the hospital a scapegoat.  Her motives were purely self serving and had nothing to do with Dave's competence or lack thereof.  Dave's failings as a physician just gave Kerry the cover she needed to protect herself.

[debraran]

I'm watching The Storm part one and two while doing some exercises (not to feel like a slug)  and I never noticed how "blah" Doug's acting was. in Part one with Ricky and the aftermath.   He seems to walk through the last 2 shows and seem almost bored. I understood the anguish from Carol being lied too, Marks hurt and disappointment, Kerry too, but his lack of emotion just seemed so flat. Even his speech to the investigator about saving kids and not saving them paled to his response back to him as his real motives. Such a shame they made him so shallow and self-centered toward the end without growth. Even when Carol told him she had her job when he brought up Portland, he impishly said "You got demoted" with that smile. (I wanted to smack him) Romano really liked the maverick in him and seemed to understand him earlier, they might have got along in a different future to a degree, if Clooney stayed. It's funny how re watching has you see things differently, especially watching back to back. Maybe with time in between, certain things look differently.

When exactly did he change I wonder? If he kept up that reckless behavior he'd never hold down a job long and they had him wanting a child etc. A year away and he was fine. A job mentioned in passing by a fake doctor, still wanted him without an interview it seems, and he ends up with a lovely home by the water and a boat.

The magic of TV. ; )

Edited October 14, 2020 by debraran

[ShortyMac]

11 hours ago, littlebennysmom said:

And I know it's a bit of a tangent, but WTF with Sam's delinquent son stealing someone's severed finger (!) and him having zero consequences?  Her and her child were terribly unlikable characters to me 

Not to mention, Alex setting the apartment and entire building on fire, which killed people, in Season 13. Sam and Sam's grandma highly suspected Alex did it on purpose; he should have had to answer for that. Sam just sent him away to that school for troubled kids, and that was it.

[PepSinger]

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

All of those things are true, but that isn't why Kerry fired him.  Malucci was fired to deflect attention away from Kerry's part in the tragedy and to give the hospital a scapegoat.  Her motives were purely self serving and had nothing to do with Dave's competence or lack thereof.  Dave's failings as a physician just gave Kerry the cover she needed to protect herself.

Exactly. Also, that isn't how you fire people in real life. 

Watching that entire debacle again, it's become clear that there's plenty of blame to go around the whole group. Malucci shouldn't have assumed the problem was drug related and done a full history; Chen shouldn't have signed off on drugs without looking at the x-rays and other tests to come back; Kerry should've had her damn pager. Also, both Malucci and Chen should've realized he had Marfan's. Carter walked into the room and diagnosed him in 5 seconds, and all three of them are residents. Granted, I don't think Chen would've made such errors if she hadn't been so overworked and overwhelmed. Malucci, on the other hand, would've made his mistake regardless because that's just who he is.

By the way, how long is Carter's residency??? We're on season 9 in the Pop reairings, and he's now Chief Resident. Were seasons 4 and 5 both an intern year, with S4 being surgical and S5 being the ER?

Edited October 14, 2020 by PepSinger

[Kel Varnsen]

15 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

By the way, how long is Carter's residency??? We're on season 9 in the Pop reairings, and he's now Chief Resident. Were seasons 4 and 5 both an intern year, with S4 being surgical and S5 being the ER?

Season 4 (because I am just watching it now) is his ER intern year. 3 was his last year of surgery and now he is complaining that he has to start his residency over even though Weaver made that super clear when he started asking about quitting surgery.

 

17 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Exactly. Also, that isn't how you fire people in real life

We haven't gotten to that season yet but speaking of people who should have been fired on the spot, I just watched an episode where Jerry fired a grenade launcher from the admit desk and blew up a car and an ambulance.

[PepSinger]

6 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

27 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

By the way, how long is Carter's residency??? We're on season 9 in the Pop reairings, and he's now Chief Resident. Were seasons 4 and 5 both an intern year, with S4 being surgical and S5 being the ER?

Season 4 (because I am just watching it now) is his ER intern year. 3 was his last year of surgery and now he is complaining that he has to start his residency over even though Weaver made that super clear when he started asking about quitting surgery.

Thanks! That would make Seasons 4-9 his residency. WTF? World's longest resident.

8 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

28 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Exactly. Also, that isn't how you fire people in real life

We haven't gotten to that season yet but speaking of people who should have been fired on the spot, I just watched an episode where Jerry fired a grenade launcher from the admit desk and blew up a car and an ambulance.

Ha! That's when Kerry made Jerry works nights for months on end. 

Speaking of Kerry, I was trying to clock when I stopped liking her as a character, and I think it's during S7 with the Legaspi debacle. That's when my feelings for Kerry really began to shift.

This is neither here nor there, but every time I watch "On the Beach," I cry. It's that damn song.

[Growsonwalls]

I think if Mark and Susan had pursued something it would have been like how many married couples are -- friends who care about each other. Not much passion but some people are okay with that. 

and honestly, most of the ER couples that stayed together had a "they settled" vibe. Even Luka and Abby by the time they stayed together sort of settled on it because of an oops baby. Benton and Cleo. Mark and Lizzie. Susan and Chuck. Not much passion/chemistry in any of these pairings.

[WendyCR72]

21 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think if Mark and Susan had pursued something it would have been like how many married couples are -- friends who care about each other. Not much passion but some people are okay with that. 

and honestly, most of the ER couples that stayed together had a "they settled" vibe. Even Luka and Abby by the time they stayed together sort of settled on it because of an oops baby. Benton and Cleo. Mark and Lizzie. Susan and Chuck. Not much passion/chemistry in any of these pairings.

Yeah, but as we found out in the finale, "And In The End...", Susan didn't settle. She and Chuck divorced. So there's that!

[Growsonwalls]

44 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, but as we found out in the finale, "And In The End...", Susan didn't settle. She and Chuck divorced. So there's that!

Omg. I guess that's how much Susan and Chuck registered that I didn't even remember that. 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

We haven't gotten to that season yet but speaking of people who should have been fired on the spot, I just watched an episode where Jerry fired a grenade launcher from the admit desk and blew up a car and an ambulance.

Holy hell, yes, I could have made a drinking game out of moments at which Jerry - because of his history and the severity of any given screw-up du jour - should have been canned.

[WendyCR72]

Don't know how I'd forgotten this as I watched it in first run, but I'm watching Silk Stalkings on Pluto (don't judge me! It was a fun show! LOL!) and I had forgotten that Gloria Reuben had played one of the MEs, Hattie.

The episode was circa 1993, so just prior to ER.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think Carter's residency was so long because he kept leaving to go to Africa, or Paris for Kim's mother, or was filming other projects, so he was gone.       Didn't Chuck and Susan divorce a long time before the end of the show?   But were still friends with benefits?     

I just watched the wonderful actor Don Cheadle playing the medical resident with Parkinson's.     He had a lot of compassion, but there was no way he could do the physical work, or ever finish a surgical residency.       

This is also the episode where Abby runs to her brother's rescue when he goes AWOL, and Sally Field shows up again.     I never liked the brother and mother story lines.   

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think Carter's residency was so long because he kept leaving to go to Africa, or Paris for Kim's mother, or was filming other projects, so he was gone.       Didn't Chuck and Susan divorce a long time before the end of the show?   But were still friends with benefits?     

I just watched the wonderful actor Don Cheadle playing the medical resident with Parkinson's.     He had a lot of compassion, but there was no way he could do the physical work, or ever finish a surgical residency.       

This is also the episode where Abby runs to her brother's rescue when he goes AWOL, and Sally Field shows up again.     I never liked the brother and mother story lines.   

The usual ER residency is 3 or 4 years, depending on the program.  I think that Carter finished his residency before being named Chief Resident, which is not how it usually goes and made him a resident for 5 years.  Chief resident is usually selected from among the residents in their last year.  In many cases, the final year residents take turns and are Chief of various aspects at different times.  For example; as Administrative Chief, they would be in charge of doing the residents' work schedules as well as finding speakers and setting up conferences for Grand Rounds and such.  There would be Clinical Chiefs who would be in charge of the actual work being done while on duty and make sure everyone was progressing as expected.  They would hand out work assignments at the start of the shift to be sure that residents were evenly spread amongst the various ER patient population.  On ER, we often see the residents fighting over who gets to work on which patients or all of them clustered around a critical patient while everyone else sits and waits.  In real life, there's a rotation and the Chief working that day would be supervising to make sure all areas got coverage. And, being Chief, cherry-picking the most interesting cases and/or hiding out in the call room studying for boards.

In OB/GYN, we rotated between the various duties and were Chief of whatever service we were on at the time: OB, Gyn or Oncology back in the day.  The Gyn Chief had the easiest gig and was in charge of Grand Rounds and work schedules.

Edited October 14, 2020 by doodlebug

[Hava]

I'm on season 11 now. There has been a considerable decline in quality starting in season 10 and that is when I started fast forwarding through scenes. I am basically only watching for Carter now. 

Did anyone notice that around this time the show started doing House-esque intros where we see how the patients ended up in the ER? I don't like it. ER was never about that.

Sam and her kid are the wooooooorst. OMG. Why are we spending so much time on them?

And Kovac has never improved as a character for me. I keep waiting for something to click with him, and I just don't get his character. He's bland and just sleeps around. The only time I actually like him was in Africa. Then he came back, abandoned his intention to return to Africa, and became an ass again. He's had the most chemistry with Gillian out of all of his love interests.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Hava

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think Carter's residency was so long because he kept leaving to go to Africa, or Paris for Kim's mother, or was filming other projects, so he was gone.       Didn't Chuck and Susan divorce a long time before the end of the show?   But were still friends with benefits?     

No. They were married. Got married in Vegas and were still married when Susan left. They thought about divorcing after being so impulsive but decided not to.

Then in the finale, at the restaurant/bar, she said she and Chuck divorced and she was into dating younger men.  😛  Then, not long after, that is when she went arm in arm with Carter and Rachel to County.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Most shows, especially long running ones like ER, have a book about each character with the basic facts, their back story, what the character has gone through from season to season.   However, ER doesn't seem to do that with a lot of the characters.    I think that was a problem with Luka, Abby, and some of the other characters, where they were always changing the characters around.   Luka was a prime example, where he was dark and brooding, then was boring, then he was sleeping with anyone he could, then some other out of character action.   

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:19 PM, PepSinger said:

Ha! That's when Kerry made Jerry works nights for months on end. 

That's all that happened to him. At the end of the episode she strongly encouraged him to use some of his built up vacation days (basically saying don't show your face around here for awhile). Then he gets months of night shifts which doesn't seem like that much of a punishment compared for someone working shift work who probably has to bounce around different shifts all the time. A month of steady shifts seems like a reward.

The frustrating thing is the next couple of episodes I watched last night were about how the ER had to cut its budget and find around $100,000 in savings. She lays off Jeannie, but it made no sense that she wouldn't lay off the guy whose negligence probably cost the hospital at least that in damage and could have easily been catastrophic.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

She lays off Jeannie, but it made no sense that she wouldn't lay off the guy whose negligence probably cost the hospital at least that in damage and could have easily been catastrophic.

Didn't she have to lay off a PA?  And the one with the least amount of tenure was Jeanie, so Kerry had to pick her, but Kerry was just the pawn in Anspaugh's ploy to get rid of Jeanie because she had HIV -- Kerry's hands were tied.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

Didn't she have to lay off a PA?  And the one with the least amount of tenure was Jeanie, so Kerry had to pick her, but Kerry was just the pawn in Anspaugh's ploy to get rid of Jeanie because she had HIV -- Kerry's hands were tied.

Yea I am interested in seeing how it plays out. Either way it was annoying how the grenade launcher thing was played as kind of a joke when it seems like forever that the show has been talking about cuts and how the county wants to shut down the ER. 

Also annoying was the episode Fathers and Sons I watched tonight. I mean the scenery of the US Southwest was nice but man that was some serious Clooney emmy bait there, to the point where I wondered if he made them write it as a contact negotiation thing 

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Yea I am interested in seeing how it plays out. Either way it was annoying how the grenade launcher thing was played as kind of a joke when it seems like forever that the show has been talking about cuts and how the county wants to shut down the ER. 

Also annoying was the episode Fathers and Sons I watched tonight. I mean the scenery of the US Southwest was nice but man that was some serious Clooney emmy bait there, to the point where I wondered if he made them write it as a contact negotiation thing 

As the show got bigger all the major characters got these "out of the ER" episodes. I liked "Fathers and Sons" because it set us up for Mark's backstory with his father which ended up being one of my favorite ER storylines.

[WendyCR72]

49 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

As the show got bigger all the major characters got these "out of the ER" episodes. I liked "Fathers and Sons" because it set us up for Mark's backstory with his father which ended up being one of my favorite ER storylines.

Me, I hated ALL of the "out of the ER" episodes. But like I said, that's me. Just found it all boring.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

As the show got bigger all the major characters got these "out of the ER" episodes. I liked "Fathers and Sons" because it set us up for Mark's backstory with his father which ended up being one of my favorite ER storylines.

I also liked seeing Mark learn more about his parents and liked how Doug told him how lucky he was, he had "Ozzie and Harriet" even if it wasn't written exactly the way he wanted it to be. Then he told excerpts of his own disjointed childhood. That part was very real for many.  I also liked the tease of Mark's dad by others and his not getting promoted. He sacrificed a lot like many parents but didn't talk about it.

I do wonder why the writing went from that to the flat writing of Doug's decline. Maybe to make him less missed, but his acting in those episodes was far better than the sleepy, flat ones with Choosing Joi.

I know Anthony Edwards wanted to leave, but I missed him. He was the heart of the ER in many ways.

Edited October 16, 2020 by debraran

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Me, I hated ALL of the "out of the ER" episodes. But like I said, that's me. Just found it all boring.

I didn't mind the out of the ER aspect, but Doug's storyline was so overly dramatic it was like someone in the writers room decided they needed to do whatever it takes to get Clooney an emmy.

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I also liked the tease of Mark's dad by others and his not getting promoted. He sacrificed a lot like many parents but didn't talk about it.

I didn't really get the not getting promoted thing. I work with a lot of military people (Canadian but it is a similar rank structure for officers) and while an Army Captain is kind of a mid level rank, a Navy captain is kind of a big deal. So saying he was upset that he never got promoted past captain was weird.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Mark's father applied for shore duty, instead of staying in the combat fleet which would have put him in line for promotion to Admiral.    Mark didn't know why his father asked for shore duty, until the mother said that she told Mark's father that Mark was having problems.   He pretty much torpedoed his own career for his son, and Mark never knew until after the mother's stroke.    Mark also didn't know his mother never wanted any kids, and only married Mark's dad because she was pregnant.     After her stroke the mother told a lot of information Mark never knew. 

I didn't like the entire story line with Sally Field.   When she went to Oklahoma, with Carter to pick her mother up, the mother tried to walk in front of a semi, took an overdose, and then La Gaspie (spelling) thought that her mother should leave the hospital, and move in with Abby.    I guess the actor who played her brother was doing other projects, so he would be written in and out between other projects, but I didn't really care about him.    I always wondered if Abby really had issues of her own, but no one ever seemed to consider that on the show.   

Edited October 17, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I didn't mind the out of the ER aspect, but Doug's storyline was so overly dramatic it was like someone in the writers room decided they needed to do whatever it takes to get Clooney an emmy.

I didn't really get the not getting promoted thing. I work with a lot of military people (Canadian but it is a similar rank structure for officers) and while an Army Captain is kind of a mid level rank, a Navy captain is kind of a big deal. So saying he was upset that he never got promoted past captain was weird.

Yep, as stated above, Mark's dad needed to command a Navy ship in order to continue to rise in the ranks and this was apparently his ultimate goal as an officer.  However, when he was finally offered the command that he'd spent his career working for, he turned it down because Mark was having a tough time and he didn't want to be away from home for the long stretches that a command would require.  So, he turned it down and was never given another chance.  Meanwhile, he told Mark that he hadn't made the cut and it wasn't offered to him so that Mark never knew what his father had sacrificed for him.

I believe this was also around the time that Mark's mother  developed dementia and told him more family secrets.  She married his father because she was already pregnant with him and that she never wanted to have kids while his father did.  It completely turned Marks perceptions of his parents around 180.

Edited October 16, 2020 by doodlebug

[RedbirdNelly]

I way prefer episodes in the ER as opposed to the out of ER ones but the Fathers and Son one was good--esp with what it led to story-wise---it really did have a point that tied into the show. Also, Mark's last episode guts me every time. 

[Hava]

I'm sorry, I tried, but I stopped watching somewhere during season 12. I didn't care about any of the characters anymore. Now I'm just going through season 15 trying to find the scenes with the old characters. This show ended for me in season 10. 

[littlebennysmom]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:26 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

This is also the episode where Abby runs to her brother's rescue when he goes AWOL, and Sally Field shows up again.     I never liked the brother and mother story lines.   

Neither did I!  I absolutely hated Sally Field's portrayal of mental illness (didn't she win an Emmy or something?).

Also, what was with Abby's weird as hell way of dealing with her at the ER (ignoring/avoiding her as she screeches "AB-BEEEEE!!!!!" over and over again -- um, security?), but always went to the rescue (albeit with major eye rolling, sighing, and general martyr behavior).

The whole storyline made me dislike the Abby character intensely. 

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, littlebennysmom said:

I absolutely hated Sally Field's portrayal of mental illness (didn't she win an Emmy or something?).

Yep, this show snagged a lot of high-profile actors for guest appearances, which resulted in a lot of Emmy nominations in those categories:  Sally Field, Mary McDonnell, Swoosie Kurtz, Veronica Cartwright, Ewan McGregor, Vondie Curtis Hall, James Cromwell, Don Cheadle, Stanley Tucci, Forest Whitaker, Ray Liotta, James Woods, Alan Alda, Red Buttons, Ernest Borgnine, Bob Newhart ...

I don't remember who else won, but do remember that Field did.

[debraran]

Ray Liotta won for Time of Death along with Sally Field. "The rest were nominated but didn't win.

Edited October 17, 2020 by debraran

[RedbirdNelly]

In defense of Sally Field--tossing in my unpopular opinion--I felt like she earned her accolades in the episode when she explains to Abby how she tried to will herself to be well when Abby was born. I think they are sitting at the L Station during this conversation. It was heartbreaking to me--the thought of this mom wanting to be well but not being able to do it. Whether that is an accurate portrayal of mental illness, I can't say, but I was moved.

I do agree that there are not so endearing parts of the story arc, and I'm not a big Abby fan. 

 

** edited to fix "can" to "can't say"

Edited October 18, 2020 by RedbirdNelly
typo

[CrazyInAlabama]

That part of Abby's mother's story was good. 

 However, the La Gaspi (Spelling?) character irritated me, Abby was the one who had to live with her mother's actions, and support her, and Dr. La Gaspi didn't.      In Abby's place, I would have refused to take the mother to my place to live.    I know that was the story line but Abby would never be able to fix her mother, or the brother.

I think another reason for Carter to stay in Chicago was the Carter Center in honor of his son.         

Edited October 18, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[readster]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

That part of Abby's mother's story was good. 

 However, the La Gaspi (Spelling?) character irritated me, Abby was the one who had to live with her mother's actions, and support her, and Dr. La Gaspi didn't.      In Abby's place, I would have refused to take the mother to my place to live.    I know that was the story line but Abby would never be able to fix her mother, or the brother.

 

Right I agree, I feel Gaspi was trying to "magically" make things happen and it just WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. It reminds me in the old episode of Now and Then where Sela Ward's character had to deal with her brother who had sears of scizo problems and his home nurse kept going: "He's getting better." You wanted to smack her and go: "No he isn't, in fact he can't function, he tried, he couldn't and only our father's pension has kept his care going and we can't. Fuck you!"

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Right I agree, I feel Gaspi was trying to "magically" make things happen and it just WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. It reminds me in the old episode of Now and Then where Sela Ward's character had to deal with her brother who had sears of scizo problems and his home nurse kept going: "He's getting better." You wanted to smack her and go: "No he isn't, in fact he can't function, he tried, he couldn't and only our father's pension has kept his care going and we can't. Fuck you!"

As someone with a bipolar relative who has had many wildly manic episodes, I can say SF's portrayal was spot-on.  Alas, like my relative, the unrelenting crazy doesn't wear well in real life, or on TV. 

One of the reasons I came to strongly dislike Abby was the way she treated her mother and brother.  As though they were 'lesser than'; as though they required her management.  I surely get why she wanted to lock them up and get them out of her life, but she was selfish and cruel.

LeGaspi was simply being practical, IMO.  Despite Abby's insistence that her mother required longterm commitment on a locked ward; Maggie's condition did not warrant that kind of care and there was no way it was going to happen against her will.  Amongst other things, who was going to pay for it?  Longterm psych inpatient care really doesn't exist these days; partly because it is hugely expensive and partly because it doesn't provide any benefit.  So, Maggie was going to be released from the hospital, like it or not.  She has no money, no job, no place of her own.  What she does have is a daughter who has come to her rescue, driven all the way across the country with her and rushed her to the ER when she tried to commit suicide.  A daughter who has obviously been in contact with the medical team and participated in discussions.  A daughter who has repeatedly claimed she was done with her mother and then came back into the picture.  And Maggie wanted to go home with her, undoubtedly told LeGaspi their long and complicated history.  So, the options were to release Maggie to a homeless shelter or encourage Abby to step up.  LeGaspi did the best she could with the options that were available.

[Danny Franks]

On 10/16/2020 at 5:15 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Me, I hated ALL of the "out of the ER" episodes. But like I said, that's me. Just found it all boring.

They're all instant misses on rewatch, but the worst of them has to be the Benton one. Because Benton was never a sympathetic character and having him as the sole character, surrounded by guests was an awful idea.

I just caught the last episode of season six and the first couple of episodes of season seven, and was surprised to recall how likeable Abby was when she first arrived - competent and feisty but collected and a centre of calm (particularly the stuff with Rex the Wonder Preemie). She worked really well as a part of the ensemble. It's a shame the show kept piling more and more narrative baggage onto her - she's an addict, she's got a bipolar mother, her and Luka killed a guy, she's in a love triangle, now she's in a different love triangle, now her brother's bipolar too... and so on.

And I still feel like one of the biggest missed opportunities on the show in terms of romantic storylines was Carter and Chen. They had great chemistry, they had backstory and that clearly affectionate, teasing relationship. It would have been so much better than all that tortured Abby drama, and the dreadful Kem storyline.

[debraran]

Benton seemed awkward there but that was part of it I think. I got to like the nurse as I watched and his arrogance vs learning curve. It wasn't my favorite but I liked them exposing him to a different part of the country and "their ways" and seeing him adapt.  Trying to picture Romano there, now that would have been funny.

I am up to Carol being pregnant on Hulu, but I happened to see a clip of Carol's twins birth in a youtube while searching for something else. It was 4 parts since I forgot it went on for so long. I had forgotten about the C section and bleeding and Abby. She was nice but since I know how annoying she becomes, I still saw it if that makes any sense. : )  I also forgot how much Carol complained, before and after epidural and although the twins were beyond adorable, it just was so dumb, Doug wasn't called or trying to get there. The last scene had her holding one while another cried in the bassinet a few feet away for some reason. She was looking scared and overwhelmed.  I had twins so I guess I get putting in how I was vs this fiction so I was biased. She had 9 months to prepare for this and acted like she was caught off guard.  I know they had to work with not having Doug on phone or voice over (that would have helped) but what woman runs to a guy that they had not visit her, call, want to see his girls, etc.  Carol goes blindly there, why I saw it as romantic years ago and not now must have been from a lot less thought about it and watching it once. It was like they corrected a long story line with a good ending so we forgave them. lol

I also would have liked to see Carter and Chen, better than having him lose a baby with Kem. You had to know that at the end, he found happiness somewhere.

Edited October 19, 2020 by debraran

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:16 AM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Mark's father applied for shore duty, instead of staying in the combat fleet which would have put him in line for promotion to Admiral.    Mark didn't know why his father asked for shore duty, until the mother said that she told Mark's father that Mark was having problems.   He pretty much torpedoed his own career for his son, and Mark never knew until after the mother's stroke.   

I just watched that episode and it makes a lot of more sense now. This Mark one was way better than the Mark and Doug one, even though Cynthia is super annoying. I really liked the part where Mark's dad is in the ER and the helicopter accident comes in and Mark sees that his dad was a great captain, as he spoke to that pilot, then the dad sees that Mark is a great Doctor. It is also hilarious to imagine that Goose is an alternate universe Mark Green who followed in his dad's footsteps.

It is also weird how my brain works. I remember nothing about the plots of season 4 and no memory of Cynthia, but I remember specifically the part where the Navy doc tells Mark to help in the ER and Mark tells him he doesn't have a California license. In the previous on I remembered specifically Carter recycling that rape suspect's blood but nothing else.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I just watched that episode and it makes a lot of more sense now. This Mark one was way better than the Mark and Doug one, even though Cynthia is super annoying. I really liked the part where Mark's dad is in the ER and the helicopter accident comes in and Mark sees that his dad was a great captain, as he spoke to that pilot, then the dad sees that Mark is a great Doctor. It is also hilarious to imagine that Goose is an alternate universe Mark Green who followed in his dad's footsteps.

It is also weird how my brain works. I remember nothing about the plots of season 4 and no memory of Cynthia, but I remember specifically the part where the Navy doc tells Mark to help in the ER and Mark tells him he doesn't have a California license. In the previous on I remembered specifically Carter recycling that rape suspect's blood but nothing else.

It was also very telling of everything Mark thought about growing up was completely untrue. Even his mother saying it did more damage in the long run. Even to the point of why he was an only child and that while Mark's father gave up a lot for him and his mother, but he was proud of him and who he became. That in my opinion was probably one of the best arcs for the characters' personal lives. Doug's was kind of sad, but you understood. However, Carter's as it went more and more into John's life, I'm sorry, but it was really screwed up and I think at one point. The writers didn't know who to make a cast members life more pathetic. Benton's was just confusing because his family acted like he had control over everything and he didn't and no matter how much he tried to show why he couldn't. They still were clueless. Ramono, they never went into his background of what turned him into such an ego driven ass, but still had some heart about him. Abby's was beaten over our heads and so was Luka's. Sam's was a nightmare and Susan's they just wanted to go: "Let's really show how much her life sucks." It was like they were trying to one-up a characters tragic life and then didn't think for a second: "Wait, this isn't actually possible." 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, readster said:

It was also very telling of everything Mark thought about growing up was completely untrue. Even his mother saying it did more damage in the long run. Even to the point of why he was an only child and that while Mark's father gave up a lot for him and his mother, but he was proud of him and who he became. That in my opinion was probably one of the best arcs for the characters' personal lives. Doug's was kind of sad, but you understood. However, Carter's as it went more and more into John's life, I'm sorry, but it was really screwed up and I think at one point. The writers didn't know who to make a cast members life more pathetic. Benton's was just confusing because his family acted like he had control over everything and he didn't and no matter how much he tried to show why he couldn't. They still were clueless. Ramono, they never went into his background of what turned him into such an ego driven ass, but still had some heart about him. Abby's was beaten over our heads and so was Luka's. Sam's was a nightmare and Susan's they just wanted to go: "Let's really show how much her life sucks." It was like they were trying to one-up a characters tragic life and then didn't think for a second: "Wait, this isn't actually possible." 

Benton's family not understanding his work schedule was particularly annoying.  We saw he came from hardworking, intelligent parents who valued education.  We heard that his father started the automotive repair business that Jackie's husband ended up running.  These were not naive people.  Benton's dad surely worked long hours getting the business off the ground.  Surely, he wasn't always available at a moment's notice for family events, either.  By the time of Benton's mother's birthday; he'd gone through 4 years of medical school and was in his second year of residency.  It could not have been the first time he had to work and missed something.  In the early 90's, it was not news to anyone that doctors in training worked long hours and had little choice in the matter.

I went to medical school and did a residency in the early-mid 80's and missed multiple Christmases and birthdays.  I once drove home Christmas morning after working all night Christmas Eve, a 3 hour drive.  I fell asleep in the middle of opening gifts.  My father said, 'You know, it just wouldn't be the holidays if you weren't here falling asleep on the couch.'  There is no way Benton's family could have thought he'd be available on a work night, no less.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm watching the Romano gets smashed by a helicopter episode.     So Abby who was an L & D nurse, and is supposed to be the greatest doctor ever doesn't realize the patient who had a miscarriage and won't stop bleeding, actually has fibroids?   In the midst of sending the woman to emergency surgery keeps on the attending about doing a much longer surgery?    Also, I didn't realize how quickly Chuck and Susan divorced, because Kerry refers to Chuck as Susan's ex-husband in this episode.  

Morris who was whining, and sitting there for hours at the desk because Romano told him to does nothing to help anyone, and keeps his job?    I never liked the Morris character.     Also, Romano was yelling at Morris right before the helicopter roasted him, so Morris was totally stupid to not mention that.   

That was also an early episode of Sam, Luka, and her kid.   He's sitting there at dinner burning the table decoration in the candle.     Foreshadowing his setting the apartment building on fire, where he again had nothing happen to him.   

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm watching the Romano gets smashed by a helicopter episode.     So Abby who was an L & D nurse, and is supposed to be the greatest doctor ever doesn't realize the patient who had a miscarriage and won't stop bleeding, actually has fibroids?   In the midst of sending the woman to emergency surgery keeps on the attending about doing a much longer surgery?    

Morris who was whining, and sitting there for hours at the desk because Romano told him to does nothing to help anyone, and keeps his job?    

Abby always knew better than the experts about everything.  No way an L&D nurse, even one with far more experience than Abby, knows enough about the management of uterine fibroids and hemorrhage to question the attending physician's clinical judgement.  That was kind of par for the course for Abby.  She always knew the best way to do anything and pushed and pushed both patients and colleagues to do things her way.  She was a bully, IMO.  And not that bright, either.