All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[RedbirdNelly]

8 minutes ago, voiceover said:

 

Funny -- as much as I'm loving Carol & Doug enjoying happy times, I find myself tensing up in anticipation of Clooney's exit, like an accident that I can see coming.

same here--keep reminding myself we eventually get a happy ending. . .

[desertflower]

3 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I watched the episode last night where Doug treats the young soccer player who has a tumor in her leg and her mom is played by the actress who played Donna Martin's mom on 90210. Kept seeing Donna Martin's mom.

Not to nitpick, but that was the actress who played Jackie Taylor, Kelly's mom on 90210, not Donna's. And I think the girl's dad was on Mad About You as Paul's friend who rode a bike all the time. It's fun picking out all these people.

Aw, I was just beginning to like Carter's beard and then he gets it stuck to the carpet layer guy. One of those carpet brothers reminded me of Anthony Edwards except he had crazy eyes.

I thought Carter was a little hard on Lucy about the party. She didn't know the guys were taking drugs. 

Another fun game besides identifying guest stars is guessing which movie Clooney was doing at the time based on his haircut. I'm thinking the shorter cut was for Batman or maybe Peacemaker. 

[BBHN]

Quote

ame here--keep reminding myself we eventually get a happy ending. . .

And the happy ending stuck, which was nice too.

[starri]

11 minutes ago, desertflower said:

Another fun game besides identifying guest stars is guessing which movie Clooney was doing at the time based on his haircut. I'm thinking the shorter cut was for Batman or maybe Peacemaker. 

Three Kings, IIRC.

[desertflower]

21 minutes ago, starri said:

Three Kings, IIRC.

Ah, forgot about that one!

[desertflower]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

 

Funny -- as much as I'm loving Carol & Doug enjoying happy times, I find myself tensing up in anticipation of Clooney's exit, like an accident that I can see coming.

Oh gosh, I know. Not looking forward to Joy coming in the ER with her son. It's such a sad story anyway, but then it's also the beginning of the end for Doug. But yes, at least he and Carol have the happy ending later. 

[voiceover]

56 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

same here--keep reminding myself we eventually get a happy ending. . .

One of the best resolutions in TV history.  I watched it on YT recently -- forgot that Don Henley's "Taking You Home" played over it.  Which made me get weepy.

Totally forgot about Carter living with Kerry.

[Clemgo3165]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

He switched specialties (& cities) for an episode of Friends, where he put in a memorably eccentric turn as Phoebe's Fonzie-loving OB.

Funny -- as much as I'm loving Carol & Doug enjoying happy times, I find myself tensing up in anticipation of Clooney's exit, like an accident that I can see coming.

Same here. The bath scene from yesterday is one of my all-time favorites, but I know that by the end of the week he'll be gone. I pretty much stopped watching after that the first time around - peeking in from time-to-time to see what Carol was up to, and then quit altogether after Carol left. I just wasn't that interested in Mark or Kerry, still somewhat interested in Carter but didn't like the way he treated Lucy, loved Kellie Martin but didn't think much of Lucy, etc. And I recall being irked that they wrote Clooney out early in the season rather than having him finish it out, as he was willing to do, all to give a boost to Anthony Edwards and Mark. Seemed like every week after that there'd be an ad for ER saying "and a hero emerges!" wrt to Mark and some new crisis. And then the revenge copters took over.

[BBHN]

Quote

And I recall being irked that they wrote Clooney out early in the season rather than having him finish it out, as he was willing to do

I will admit, that was one thing I liked about ER, characters would leave throughout the season, and join the show that way too. It's definitely more realistic than to have people only seem to leave or die in late May/early July or only meet new people in September...

[voiceover]

Olivia Spencer's on today as the woman who tricks Carol into identifying the sex of her baby -- so she can abort it.

I hate this ep with the fire of a 1000 suns. An exhausted Elizabeth screws up a patient's meds; Benton pushes E further away; Mark has a PTSD incident; Carter & Lucy fighting AGAIN.

As a long-time professor, I understand that tendency to incorporate the teaching methods of those who taught YOU.  And I can see Carter copying Benton's style, because this was one of the biggest reasons *he* became a good Dr.

Not a Lucy fan so I don't tend to blame Carter, as the show appears to set me up to do.  I think she's a whiner.  I wanted to toss it out to the posters here -- I get the sense that some here think Carter's just being a dick.  I think he's copying his mentor and I don't see much he's doing wrong (except for always getting the wrong med student!).

Here's one thing I liked: Benton telling the cochlear implant guy that Elizabeth was taken!  

[BBHN]

Yeah but that method doesn't always work well with everyone. Different styles for different people...and someone like Lucy would have probably been better being taught by someone like Mark.

Also, don't forget, Benton was teaching Carter as a surgeon, not as a ER doctor...

[WendyCR72]

I agree that Lucy was a whiner. And with the sheer amount of patients they see in a day - hell, in hours - I can't be and wasn't irritated by Carter where Lucy was concerned. And I am not a doc and have never been in the position, but I'd think one would use skills set forth by those who taught you. So I can't fathom where a lot of deviation would come in.

[desertflower]

I think once Lucy lied about the IV stuff it just set up a bad rapport between her and Carter. I don't know if he would've been as hard on her about the party and some of the other things if that hadn't happened. She otherwise seemed prepared and eager to learn. I can see how she could get annoying at times but she seemed ok overall.

For anyone who liked the Doug and Carol relationship and stopped watching after he left, it is worth watching the final season to see their scenes. It might be on YouTube. They even play their piano theme song very briefly, like a little gift to the original viewers. 

[Mama No Life]

6 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I watched the episode last night where Doug treats the young soccer player who has a tumor in her leg and her mom is played by the actress who played Donna Martin's mom on 90210. Kept seeing Donna Martin's mom.

I'm enjoying how Dr. Casen (jerk cardiologist who gave Susan a hard time in season 1) just pops up every once in a while.

The young soccer player is the youngest kid on Growing Pains...Chrissy or something?

[desertflower]

4 minutes ago, Mama No Life said:

The young soccer player is the youngest kid on Growing Pains...Chrissy or something?

Oh yeah! She's on a show now too I think..Blindspot. I see her pop up in stuff all the time. 

[voiceover]

7 hours ago, BBHN said:

Yeah but that method doesn't always work well with everyone. Different styles for different people...and someone like Lucy would have probably been better being taught by someone like Mark.

Also, don't forget, Benton was teaching Carter as a surgeon, not as a ER doctor...

This is true.  And it actually makes me respect Lucy less. 

She's not a freshman in college.  Shes's a medical student who's already been through x-number of pre-med and other classes.  Which means she's already had z-number of teachers.  Some may have been nurturing like Mark; some hardass like Peter; some newbies like Carter.  

There was no Yelp! or Rate Your Professor in those days, to guide her choice of instructor.  My guess though is that, even now, you're not allowed to pick.

Carter is new to being a teacher.  He won't ever completely emulate Benton -- they're different men -- but John learned a lot from him, and it's natural that he'd adopt some of his teaching techniques.  Over time, and with practice, he'll develop (and he did!) his own style.  And his imitation of Benton's moods will drop away.

Lucy isn't new to being a student.  She should be used to this (having different types of instructors).  A surgically-trained ER Dr, for example, offers her a unique perspective.

Edited May 17, 2017 by voiceover

[starri]

7 hours ago, voiceover said:

She's not a freshman in college.  Shes's a medical student who's already been through x-number of pre-med and other classes.  Which means she's already had z-number of teachers.  Some may have been nurturing like Mark; some hardass like Peter; some newbies like Carter.  

That goes both ways.  I had a resident once who was so awful, I was seriously considering quitting school.  And I know it wasn't just me, because every other student who worked with this particular person had problems.

I don't think the situation between Carter and Lucy was comparable, they just had personalities that didn't mesh.

[BBHN]

I dunno, I think the docs should at least try and adapt their teaching styles for their students, and at least be receptive to their students and their feelings. It sure beats having another Dennis Gant situation.

Ok, that was an extreme case, but if nothing else, it should have at least made Carter more sensitive to not just Lucy, but anyone else he ever taught.

[RedbirdNelly]

20 hours ago, desertflower said:

Not to nitpick, but that was the actress who played Jackie Taylor, Kelly's mom on 90210, not Donna's. And I think the girl's dad was on Mad About You as Paul's friend who rode a bike all the time. It's fun picking out all these people.

 

so true--can't believe I got Donna and Kelly's moms mixed up!

In this week on guest stars--I saw that Octavia Spencer was playing the pregnant mom who is just there to get an ultrasound so she can abort if it's a girl.

I'm not a Lucy fan--she does seem like a whiner to me. So I side with Carter mostly though at times I do think he should have slowed down a minute, not interrupted her, etc. But generally, she needs to stop whining and toughen up a bit in my opinion. 

[RedbirdNelly]

19 hours ago, voiceover said:

One of the best resolutions in TV history.  I watched it on YT recently -- forgot that Don Henley's "Taking You Home" played over it.  Which made me get weepy.

Totally forgot about Carter living with Kerry.

I agree with both of these points. I hate it when shows have a nice resolution and then maybe one character wants to come back so they undo it. It was nice to have them end the show as a couple. Not "oh, look, they got divorced since the last time we saw them."

And I forgot about Carter living with Kerry. It cracked me up when she woke him with her music and blender--and then tells him he has to ask before touching any of her CDs. Such a Kerry move.

[starri]

I actually really liked the dynamic of Carter and Kerry being roommates.

[voiceover]

6 hours ago, BBHN said:

I dunno, I think the docs should at least try and adapt their teaching styles for their students, and at least be receptive to their students and their feelings. It sure beats having another Dennis Gant situation.

Ok, that was an extreme case, but if nothing else, it should have at least made Carter more sensitive to not just Lucy, but anyone else he ever taught.

And I said that.  Good teachers adapt over the years.  Benton altered his (slightly) after Dennis's death.

As I pointed out in my post, which obviously wasn't clear enough, that the reason I sided with Carter is because he didn't have much experience in that area.  Lucy has experience being a student.  He improved as a teacher over the years (something else I pointed out), and his bad experience was one of the reasons why.  Lucy was acting like it was the first time she'd ever had a teacher who didn't hold her hand.

[BBHN]

And as I said, Carter of all people should have been a bit more sensitive and receptive when it came to teaching people, even if he didn't have much experience, given past history. I guess I'm just one of those people who thought (and still thinks) Carter was being a dick then lol

Lets just agree to disagree.

[desertflower]

I spotted Lane from Gilmore Girls! (Any GG fans here?) She is the parent of a little boy getting a cochlear implant and Benton talks with them briefly. She has like one line and is not wearing glasses so I almost didn't recognize her.

[slasherboy]

What kind of music did Corday say she liked when talking to the musician (didn't catch his instrument) who had an anxiety attack?  I seem to miss so much that is being said on this show.  Don't know if they're mumbling, speaking too fast or if my hearing is getting bad.  

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, starri said:

I actually really liked the dynamic of Carter and Kerry being roommates.

That's on my long list of things I didn't remember, but I am loving the hell out of it this time around. 

[voiceover]

2 hours ago, desertflower said:

I spotted Lane from Gilmore Girls! (Any GG fans here?) She is the parent of a little boy getting a cochlear implant and Benton talks with them briefly. She has like one line and is not wearing glasses so I almost didn't recognize her.

Man, I *thought* that was Keiko!!  I kept squinting, going back & forth...forgot to look it up later.  Apparently she shows up again as a different character, in the last season IIRC.

Ever seen her insurance (I think) commercial?  She's such a doll!

I always loved Baby Reese.  And Eriq was so great with him.

That scene today when he taught him "dad" in ASL...*melts*

[voiceover]

Today's "Who's that?" cameo = Peter's arm-wrestling patient (Bill Henderson) was the dentist dad in City Slickers.

[starri]

Heh.  The first surgery Lucy scrubbed in on was the same one I first scrubbed in on.

Oh, Carol.  You go from the compassionate nurse shotgunning weed for the cancer guy, and then turn around and are a complete bitch to Lynette.

I really liked Lynette.  I guess it's a shame Penny Johnson Jerald got busy with 24.

[BBHN]

Quote

 I guess it's a shame Penny Johnson Jerald got busy with 24.

I'm not sure if that is why we saw less of Penny Johnson Jerald. She was last seen in the spring of 1999 in season 5. 24 didn't start development until the spring of 2001. I do remember PJJ was also recurring on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine at the same time she was on ER, though (and even before she was on ER, she was recurring on DS9). .

Edited May 18, 2017 by BBHN

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, voiceover said:

Today's "Who's that?" cameo = Peter's arm-wrestling patient (Bill Henderson) was the dentist dad in City Slickers.

He'll always be the cop from Clue to me.  He was also memorable as "Tinkerbell" in an episode of Cold Case. 

4 hours ago, starri said:

I really liked Lynette.

Me too, and I could have done with more of her and less of Carol at the clinic.

Doug and his righteous indignation can miss me; I am every bit as sympathetic to that mother and her son as he is, but he knowingly exposed the hospital to a loss of federal funding, and just all-around reputation.  It's a county hospital, in a county that has already shut down at least one.  Is this one kid more valuable than the tens of thousands of others they wouldn't be able to treat if it all came crashing down?  And he knowingly screwed over not just Kerry, but his best friend Mark; he knows damn well they have to cover up his actions, and exploited that.  I like George Clooney a lot, but I'm not going to be too sad when Doug leaves.

And the Doug/Carol thing does nothing for me.  I don't dislike them together, mind you - in fact, I think they're good together at this point in their lives, and think it's good they save the rest of the world from dating either one of them as they both generally suck as a romantic partner - but I did not then nor do I now get invested in their relationship. 

I recently read - I'm telling you, I remember almost nothing - that Carol turns up pregnant.  What the hell?  I know the failure rate of TV birth control is exponentially higher than reality - a message I find dangerous on top of annoying - but didn't she just have a pregnancy scare?  And are they not both medical professionals but also people routinely helping patients with the consequences of unintended pregnancy?  Yet they're not making damn sure if doesn't happen unless/until they want it to?

So I'm curious to see if/how they explain it - operator error, or another birth control failure?  When Peter knocked up Carla despite having gone through an HIV scare with Jeanie (with whom he was "careful, but not that careful"), the show made a point to say the two of them had always been careful, but nothing is 100%. 

[BBHN]

I'm surprised they went with the Carol-is-pregnant story, especially after Doug was gone. Plus, it wasn't like Julianna Margulies was pregnant at the time. I guess someone really wanted to do a single mother storyline? To twins, no less. 

[Espy]

I remember the storyline being that Doug and Carol were actively trying to have a baby, hence the pregnancy. But Doug left and Carol didn't want to move so she stayed in Chicago. Carol discovering she was pregnant after he'd left for Seattle was pure soap opera though, I have no idea why they went with that storyline. And twins too, for max dramatic impact!

[Mama No Life]

Yeah, they were trying to get pregnant. Because that was a good idea with both of them managing clinics and living in a half of a house. 

The thing that bothered me the most about this story line with Doug giving Ricky the medicine is the way he lied to Mark--so casually--about the broken vials so he could find out if anyone kept track of them.  Just plain shitty.

I had totally forgotten that Amanda Lee was a nutso.  That was funny. 

Also striking...when Mark and Anspaugh discussed his tenure in three years, in 2002. Wow.  This show is old lol.

[desertflower]

18 hours ago, slasherboy said:

What kind of music did Corday say she liked when talking to the musician (didn't catch his instrument) who had an anxiety attack?  I seem to miss so much that is being said on this show.  Don't know if they're mumbling, speaking too fast or if my hearing is getting bad.  

Just watched this, she says she's in a disco phase. 

And regarding Carol getting pregnant, after her pregnancy scare they realized they were disappointed she wasn't so they started trying. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by desertflower

[Clemgo3165]

Haven't rewatched this one yet. Completely felt what the mother was going through and understood Doug's need to do something, anything, to stop the suffering. But I didn't get his risking his own clinic, the federal funding, or Carol's clinic to allow the mother to hasten Ricky's death. He should have taken the risk on himself, surely there was a way to handle that.

[RedbirdNelly]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

He'll always be the cop from Clue to me.  He was also memorable as "Tinkerbell" in an episode of Cold Case. 

 

I have not gotten to this episode but had to flag/give a shout out to a reference to Clue. Fellow Clue movie-fan here.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I have not gotten to this episode but had to flag/give a shout out to a reference to Clue. Fellow Clue movie-fan here.

I can recite the movie verbatim while watching.  I may have a problem.

Thanks for the info, everyone, on Carol's upcoming pregnancy being intentional.  I usually watch one episode per day while eating lunch, and then just have the other two on as background noise that I pay sporadic attention to.  (I'd record them, but I know that I'd never actually sit down and catch up.)

I tuned in today just in time to hear Doug getting his righteousness on again, telling Mark and Kerry if they saw the kind of pain the kid is in, they'd have done the same thing.  Mark's perfectly delivered "We have seen that kind of pain" started my lunch off right. 

[voiceover]

I wish I'd started a whiteboard chart on all the er cameos.  Today's "Who's that?": Djimon Hounsou's wife was Nettie (Celie's sister) in The Color Purple.

[RedbirdNelly]

14 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I can recite the movie verbatim while watching.  I may have a problem.

 

me too! If I'm watching a version on tv where they edit out part of a scene I can quote exactly what was missing. I watch it every Christmas after opening presents.

3 minutes ago, voiceover said:

I wish I'd started a whiteboard chart on all the er cameos.  Today's "Who's that?": Djimon Hounsou's wife was Nettie (Celie's sister) in The Color Purple.

 

4 minutes ago, voiceover said:

I wish I'd started a whiteboard chart on all the er cameos.  Today's "Who's that?": Djimon Hounsou's wife was Nettie (Celie's sister) in The Color Purple.

it could make a very good BINGO game

[voiceover]

20 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

 

it could make a very good BINGO game

BWAH!!!  Genius!  I smell a new thread coming on!

[Bastet]

Ha - a Billy Blanks cameo.  I still do tae bo tapes.

Corday's response to Romano saying paying the residents such low wages is the only way the public heath system can afford to provide medical care to all the "freeloaders" is my new favorite moment of hers.

Kerry's "What the hell is wrong with you?" to Doug was perfectly delivered.  That Doug is still spouting his "you'd have done the same thing" bullshit and completely unrepentant for the position he's put Mark and Carol (not to mention all the other patients that rely on the clinics) in is making me want to punch him through my TV.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Bastet

[voiceover]

Ugh.  Of all the hideous stupid piece-of-crap sls in the History of SLs, the George Clooney Exit sl is the stupidest & crappiest.  Character assassination all around.  At least Derek Shepherd's death wasn't Samson-bringing-the-temple-down.

In real time, I wasn't with the show on a regular basis after this -- not so much that Clooney left, but the way it happened.

[starri]

I remember watching these episodes sitting on the floor of a hall in the student union with a few other people, because that was the only TV we could find.

Fuck you, Doug.  Fuck you for screwing over Carol's clinic, fuck you for screwing over Kerry, who despite the long-standing antagonism still covered for you, and fuck you for screwing of Mark, who's supposed to be your best friend.

"Most especially must I tread in matters of life and death.  Above all, I must not play at God."

ETA:  And your need to play Hero could have gotten Jeanie killed.  Fuck that too.

Edited May 18, 2017 by starri

[slasherboy]

12 hours ago, desertflower said:

Just watched this, she says she's in a disco phase. 

Thanks, DesertFlower.

5 hours ago, voiceover said:

Ugh.  Of all the hideous stupid piece-of-crap sls in the History of SLs, the George Clooney Exit sl is the stupidest & crappiest.  Character assassination all around.  At least Derek Shepherd's death wasn't Samson-bringing-the-temple-down.

I'm curious why you feel Doug's storyline was so horrible.  Would you mind elaborating on what you disliked so much?  Thanks!

[voiceover]

11 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

Thanks, DesertFlower.

I'm curious why you feel Doug's storyline was so horrible.  Would you mind elaborating on what you disliked so much?  Thanks!

Sure.  

I was a fan of the character, and they did everything but have him burn down County General & punch Reese in the face before he left for PortlandSeattleSomewhereNW.  That's why I wrote "character assassination".

[slasherboy]

Thanks for explaining.  Now I understand better.  I was a big fan of Dr. Ross as well and was so sorry they wrote him out as they did.  But really, it was keeping in character for the character.  Helping Joi release Ricky from his pain was a very Doug Ross thing to do.  I don't remember how much longer I watched after this, but it wasn't a real long time.

[BBHN]

It was definitely consistent with Doug's character.

[slf]

Just watched the Halloween episode (I'm so far behind, lol) and for all that I don't think Peter and Elizabeth are a good match it was sweet of him to step up when he saw that she'd lost all enthusiasm for the holiday. He was classic Peter all episode, grumbling and being a joykill, but when he saw that she was frustrated and overworked he borrowed a hideous polyester outfit to be Shaft, stuffed a car full of hay, and got his cousin to drive them around. Elizabeth's delight was adorable as was her singing 'Shaft'.

[starri]

I definitely don't think what Doug did was out of character.  

The thing I'd forgotten about S5 was how well Kerry and Mark were getting along.  There was a lot of mutual respect, to the point he actually seemed pissed that they kept passing her over for the Chief job.  Of course, they couldn't write people with different personalities as friendly and respectful for too long, so they had to turn him into a complete asshole.