All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Camille said:

I HATED those episodes. I haven't rewatched them since they aired.

There's a terrific fanfic called "One Candle Burns" that rectifies everything.

They could have had him keep in touch while doing a year or 9 months of service in United States or another country and then finding another job at the end and Carol deciding to go. A nice gap year from the hospital and stress and he didn't know yet about babies. That way she could call or send messages, he's committed to his term (Doctor's Without Borders 9-12 months for example) and then they get together. This way he's not in a nice home in a beautiful area with probably beautiful people pretending to pine away while Carol slaves away at poor County and dates Luka and whatever else she does that year. ; )

But TPTB decided to write it their way but in my head, I always fixed it for me. lol

Edited September 11, 2018 by debraran

[RedbirdNelly]

I'm down to my last 2 episodes of season 15. Neela leaves in the 3rd to last episode and it's nice she gets a happy ending with Ray. There is one scene that would be a great set up if they ever re-did ER. Dubanko tells Neela good bye but assures her she'll be back someday because County is in her blood. I don't want them to redo ER because I'm sure it would not be good enough--but if you had great writers, you could actually do a good reboot--esp if people like Neela would come back in supporting roles (like Anspaugh) to show up from time to time as senior attendings.

in season 15 Morris gets together with the detective/police officer. I was never a big Morris fan but he's very sweet with her. They are kind of adorable when they fight (him telling her to stop muttering Spanish under her breath when she's mad) and when she gets shot, comes through and he tells her she can have lots of olive skin kids with red hair, and pauses, and adds nicely "if that's what you want." 

[Growsonwalls]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

They could have had him keep in touch while doing a year or 9 months of service in United States or another country and then finding another job at the end and Carol deciding to go. A nice gap year from the hospital and stress and he didn't know yet about babies. That way she could call or send messages, he's committed to his term (Doctor's Without Borders 9-12 months for example) and then they get together. This way he's not in a nice home in a beautiful area with probably beautiful people pretending to pine away while Carol slaves away at poor County and dates Luka and whatever else she does that year. ; )

But TPTB decided to write it their way but in my head, I always fixed it for me. lol

 

Considering how much late-ER was like "Someone's out of contract/needs to do an outside project but might come back? Africa! Croatia!" I'm surprised TPTB didn't realize that was a better solution for Doug as well. 

I didn't realize there was fanfic that corrected ER;s shitty writing to explain away Doug's absence but maybe I need to read it :) Because I still get upset at the way the ER writers wrote his exit/Carol's year without him. 

Worst exit of a beloved character. With the possible exception of poor Romano, who got first amputated by a helicopter and then crushed to death by a helicopter. Hell, even Lucy got a great send-off with the two prickliest characters in the ER (Weaver and Romano) working frantically to save her and both showing unaccustomed emotion when their efforts were in vain.

ETA: it would have been great had they actually shown some interactions between Romano and Doyle before Doyle accused him of sexual harassment. Instead Doyle was MIA for most of Season 5 and boom all of a sudden she's there with a sexual harassment accusation. An interesting storyline and very necessary considering Romano's inappropriate behavior around females but there needed to be more character building. Another reason why season 5 is the season things started to fall off a cliff for fans of the show.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[Growsonwalls]

The lumpectomy/masectomy argument between Benton and Corday and Lucy is really annoying. Elizabeth is acting like Peter is insensitive for leaning towards masectomy. I get really irritated at this argument because about 20 years ago my mom had breast cancer. She was terrified. She had a choice between lumpectomy/chemo/radiation and masectomy/chemo/radiation. The chemo would have been longer with a lumpectomy. She chose masectomy and says it's the best choice she ever made, because her shorter chemo treatment meant she kept her hair and did not go through the agony of prolonged chemotherapy. She got to continue to go to work, she got to go on trips with me to visit colleges, and to this day she's cancer free. Zero regrets.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[RedbirdNelly]

watched 2nd to last episode of ER last night--I had totally forgotten they spent a bunch of it with the cast at a camp for kids with heart conditions. Kind of an odd choice to me for the "almost over" episode. Had a sweet moment with Morris and his police officer girlfriend. They are really sweet. It also ends with Morris and Tony performing as part of the band for I Feel Good--of course Tony is on drums.

2 guest star bingo squares: (a) Tom Arnold as the head of peds at Rush--did not remember him being on ER; and (b) Scott Paulin (had to look him up)--but recognized him as Professor Randall, the professor who goes after Brandon on 90210. Based on Imdb, he's done a lot of shows.

[Growsonwalls]

I am finishing up Season 5. Wow what a meandering mess to end a season. I guess Doyle got her good evaluation and ... left? What a shitty ending for a character that had a lot of potential. Mark and Elizabeth have anti-chemistry and I can't believe the producers were that eager to shove that romance down our throats. Kerry's search for her birth mother was intriguing but again a wild goose chase with no resolution and not even any insight into Kerry's relationship with her adoptive parents. The falling out between Benton and Corday over the trauma fellowship was disappointing, as even after they broke up their friendship was one of the show's joys. Lucy joins the psych residency and all of a sudden becomes Mary Sue. Either Carter was just a really shitty teacher or it;s very poor writing.

And don't even get me started on Carol's pregnancy. First of all why wouldn't she tell Doug? He's the father and has a right to know. And second of all is Carol only going to deal with pregnant patients or struggling mothers for the rest of the season? Way to drive the point home that she has a bun in the oven.

And finally Jeanie has hepatitis but takes two aspirins and is fine in the morning? WTF? As someone who had a friend who died of hepatitis the treatments are extremely intrusive and horrible and there;s no way she would have been feeling so awesome with the interferon treatments.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[WendyCR72]

26 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Mark and Elizabeth have anti-chemistry and I can't believe the producers were that eager to shove that romance down our throats.

Not sure what choice TPTB had since, allegedly, Anthony Edwards demanded a romance for Mark with a main cast member. And since Alex Kingston was closest in age/one of the main cast, well...

[Dr.OO7]

I suppose this is more for the Unpopular Opinions thread, but I. . .er. . . didn't hate them together. I didn't like TPTB's efforts to make them the next Doug and Carol, nor the constant misery that got thrown at them in Season 7, but I thought they were okay together.

I hated Mark by that point, but I was glad that he finally had some luck in the romance department (and after five years of disastrous relationships, I have no problem with AE asking that his character have a stable one).

Not to mention that he actually seemed to like Elizabeth, like being with her, and didn't act like their relationship was something to be ashamed of.

[Bastet]

I don't care if he wanted Mark to have a serious relationship, or really even that he asked for a relationship between Mark and a main character.  But that last one is more about ego than character, so I do mind that once it was clear Mark and Elizabeth were utterly devoid of chemistry, they didn't back out of it rather than doubling down with pregnancy and marriage so that interesting Lizzie was stuck with his boring ass.

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Not sure what choice TPTB had since, allegedly, Anthony Edwards demanded a romance for Mark with a main cast member. And since Alex Kingston was closest in age/one of the main cast, well...

Well that's fine but TPTB could have developed that relationship instead of basically dropping it into the viewers' laps so quickly. Up until the end of Season 5 Corday had two very intriguing relationships: the romance/friendship with Benton and the uncomfortable boss thing with Romano. We barely saw Mark/Elizabeth interact. 

I also disliked that feisty, funny Corday was replaced with sour, whiny Corday. 

I guess this is my complaint with mid-season ER in general: that they stopped taking time to develop relationships. The seasons-long arcs where you saw two people interact at their very best and very worst (Benton/Carter, Carol/Doug, Doug/Mark, Jeanie/Kerry) was no more. Well except maybe that endless Carter/Abby/Luka triangle.

[WendyCR72]

46 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Well that's fine but TPTB could have developed that relationship instead of basically dropping it into the viewers' laps so quickly. Up until the end of Season 5 Corday had two very intriguing relationships: the romance/friendship with Benton and the uncomfortable boss thing with Romano. We barely saw Mark/Elizabeth interact. 

I also disliked that feisty, funny Corday was replaced with sour, whiny Corday. 

I guess this is my complaint with mid-season ER in general: that they stopped taking time to develop relationships. The seasons-long arcs where you saw two people interact at their very best and very worst (Benton/Carter, Carol/Doug, Doug/Mark, Jeanie/Kerry) was no more. Well except maybe that endless Carter/Abby/Luka triangle.

Point well taken, but I doubt even a slow build could have help Mark and Elizabeth. Chemistry is either there or it isn't. And as far as I'm concerned, it was never there between those two. Chemistry is something that cannot be faked. And it always seems that it was those very relationships that were pushed by the cast (Peter/Cleo, Mark/Lizzie) that always sucked the worst.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

And it always seems that it was those very relationships that were pushed by the cast (Peter/Cleo, Mark/Lizzie) that always sucked the worst.

I don't know that Anthony Edwards specifically pushed Mark/Lizzie, just that he wanted a high-profile relationship by teaming his character with another main character (which kind of became Elizabeth by default) and I've never heard that Eriq LaSalle pushed Peter/Cleo; the latter just rightly said screw this noise to playing one of the few black main characters on prime time and having his only positive romantic relationship be with a white woman.  ELS not wanting to use his rare status to perpetuate a negative stereotype is not responsible for the chemistry deprivation of the intra-racial relationship that followed. 

If either actor was approached by the EP saying, "We've heard your request, but the particular relationship we've directed the writers to create in response isn't working, so we're going to try something else that will still alleviate/fulfill your concerns but generate more spark" and the actors dug in their heels, I'll line up to criticize.  But I've never heard a whiff of that.

[WendyCR72]

17 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I don't know that Anthony Edwards specifically pushed Mark/Lizzie, just that he wanted a high-profile relationship by teaming his character with another main character (which kind of became Elizabeth by default) and I've never heard that Eriq LaSalle pushed Peter/Cleo; the latter just rightly said screw this noise to playing one of the few black main characters on prime time and having his only positive romantic relationship be with a white woman.  ELS not wanting to use his rare status to perpetuate a negative stereotype is not responsible for the chemistry deprivation of the intra-racial relationship that followed. 

If either actor was approached by the EP saying, "We've heard your request, but the particular relationship we've directed the writers to create in response isn't working, so we're going to try something else that will still alleviate/fulfill your concerns but generate more spark" and the actors dug in their heels, I'll line up to criticize.  But I've never heard a whiff of that.

I phrased my prior post badly. I don't think ELS or AE pushed for Cleo or Lizzie specifically. But since that was what the show went with, and the scenario was the actors pushed for A, B, and C, well...it just seemed like those still sucked a lot, and since they were borne of concerns/requests, that was what I meant.

But then, outside of Doug/Carol, this show was romantically challenged most days, anyway.

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Well that's fine but TPTB could have developed that relationship instead of basically dropping it into the viewers' laps so quickly. Up until the end of Season 5 Corday had two very intriguing relationships: the romance/friendship with Benton and the uncomfortable boss thing with Romano. We barely saw Mark/Elizabeth interact. 

I also disliked that feisty, funny Corday was replaced with sour, whiny Corday. 

I guess this is my complaint with mid-season ER in general: that they stopped taking time to develop relationships. The seasons-long arcs where you saw two people interact at their very best and very worst (Benton/Carter, Carol/Doug, Doug/Mark, Jeanie/Kerry) was no more. Well except maybe that endless Carter/Abby/Luka triangle.

I didn't realize until I googled some info of Alex Kingston, how many Romano/Corday posts and forums were out there. I thought I noticed the chemistry (at least for friendship) and wished they had better scripts but they had a lot of fans.  lol   I felt because Romano looked like he did and they made fun of his balding and height etc. and also made him very not PC at times, she would never date him. There was always a respect though and he held her on a pedestal.

I liked how "Lizzy" (to Romano) always knew who he really was, good and bad and truly loved him in her own way. When a fan wrote out all his nice comments and jokes , you realized how funny he was on the show and how many caring things he did even with a snarl. I wish he found a love interest other than the tall, beautiful women he would show up with at events and had a more rounded character. They used him as a caricature of the worst in some people (like Frank) but he could have been a much better character changing over the years and still holding on to some of his strong opinions but evolving.

Elizabeth and Mark were okay, normal, but there was always something "off" to me and when they brought in Rachel, it got worse. Sometimes I wished they brought in more from other areas than the ER, because you did tire of Luka dating Abby and Sam and Carol and then they could disappear when they broke up like Tag. ; )

I also wish Jeanne didn't get HIV and ended up with Peter, it could have been an interesting relationship.  They really didn't stretch Jeannies character too much, lots of fighting for equal status which was good but she became just that.

[Ceindreadh]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't care if he wanted Mark to have a serious relationship, or really even that he asked for a relationship between Mark and a main character.  But that last one is more about ego than character, so I do mind that once it was clear Mark and Elizabeth were utterly devoid of chemistry, they didn't back out of it rather than doubling down with pregnancy and marriage so that interesting Lizzie was stuck with his boring ass.

They didn’t have much of choice with the pregnancy as they were writing around Alex Kingston’s real life one.  

[Dr.OO7]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

also wish Jeanne didn't get HIV and ended up with Peter, it could have been an interesting relationship.  They really

I always wondered why they didn't simply have him reconcile with her or Carla. 

[Growsonwalls]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Point well taken, but I doubt even a slow build could have help Mark and Elizabeth. Chemistry is either there or it isn't. And as far as I'm concerned, it was never there between those two. Chemistry is something that cannot be faked. And it always seems that it was those very relationships that were pushed by the cast (Peter/Cleo, Mark/Lizzie) that always sucked the worst.

True dat. I guess the show really struck gold in Season 1 when the four primary relationships (Peter/Carter, Mark/Doug, Mark/Susan, and Carol/Doug) all had great chemistry. 

It was great to see in Season 15 that Carter/Benton and Carol/Doug still had chemistry. 

I also wished that Jeanie and Peter would get back together. We know Jeanie is great with kids. She would have been a great mother figure for Reese once Carla was out of the picture.

[Claire85]

I think Romano had a lot of potential until they made him a caricature and then he fell victim to “Chopper.” He had some good interactions with Lucy, and was genuinely upset by her death. That could have been the point to turn him into a more well rounded character,  while still keeping his snark. 

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

They didn’t have much of choice with the pregnancy as they were writing around Alex Kingston’s real life one.  

Plenty of actors have been pregnant without their characters also being knocked up; it's a choice to write it in, not a requirement.  Audiences are savvy enough to just go with all the old tricks to make the expanding belly less obvious.  But this show loved unintended pregnancies for its characters, so I'm sure once Kingston was pregnant they never even though of Elizabeth not also being pregnant. 

[RedbirdNelly]

4 hours ago, Claire85 said:

I think Romano had a lot of potential until they made him a caricature and then he fell victim to “Chopper.” He had some good interactions with Lucy, and was genuinely upset by her death. That could have been the point to turn him into a more well rounded character,  while still keeping his snark. 

very agree with this; looking back, I truly wish they had not written him into a hole. The character got worse and worse. They could have kept him in a supporting role, where he always had his edge but also had a nice side. We see Anspaugh throughout the entire series. He could have been the same--he could have even run the ER and not been crazy awful while doing it. Lots of lost potential.

[Growsonwalls]

Chugging my way through the Carol pregnancy storyline:

WTF at her FAXING Doug about her pregnancy? This was 1999/2000. Email? Even if you accept that Carol and Doug are on such poor terms that they can't have a civil adult conversation over the phone about this life-changing event, she could have emailed him? Using the hospital fax for something that personal ... No. 

Ok I'm just going to have my own mind-fanfic that Doug went on a one year doctors-without-borders assignment and it was a dangerous area so Carol couldn't travel there when pregnant and as soon as he was done Carol joined him in Seattle with the twins. Because the writing for this storyline sucks. 

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Chugging my way through the Carol pregnancy storyline:

WTF at her FAXING Doug about her pregnancy? This was 1999/2000. Email? Even if you accept that Carol and Doug are on such poor terms that they can't have a civil adult conversation over the phone about this life-changing event, she could have emailed him? Using the hospital fax for something that personal ... No. 

Ok I'm just going to have my own mind-fanfic that Doug went on a one year doctors-without-borders assignment and it was a dangerous area so Carol couldn't travel there when pregnant and as soon as he was done Carol joined him in Seattle with the twins. Because the writing for this storyline sucks. 

I especially hate the goobledygook explanation that she later gives to Mark:

"I told him not to come back. I was very strong. But I still thought he would come!"

So. . . you wanted him to come back, told him otherwise, and are now interpreting him respecting your wishes as "He doesn't love me anymore, because if he did, he would have read my mind and realized that when I told him NOT to come back, it meant COME BACK!"

AARGH.

[Heathen]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Chugging my way through the Carol pregnancy storyline:

WTF at her FAXING Doug about her pregnancy? This was 1999/2000. Email? Even if you accept that Carol and Doug are on such poor terms that they can't have a civil adult conversation over the phone about this life-changing event, she could have emailed him? Using the hospital fax for something that personal ... No. 

Ok I'm just going to have my own mind-fanfic that Doug went on a one year doctors-without-borders assignment and it was a dangerous area so Carol couldn't travel there when pregnant and as soon as he was done Carol joined him in Seattle with the twins. Because the writing for this storyline sucks. 

The ER staff was always using the department's fax for personal stuff: Corday announcing Greene's death, Carol's pregnancy announcement to Doug, Abby's loan application. 

[Bastet]

49 minutes ago, Heathen said:

The ER staff was always using the department's fax for personal stuff: Corday announcing Greene's death, Carol's pregnancy announcement to Doug, Abby's loan application. 

Well, that last one is normal; fax is how a loan application was submitted then, and not a lot of people had one at home, so people often used their company's fax machine for personal business.  But business is the key word; unlike a loan application, "Your friend is dead" and "I'm pregnant" are not things normally transmitted via fax.  The fax was a good way for Elizabeth to send Mark's note (faster than mailing it from Hawaii), if she'd done it after calling to notify them he'd died.  It sucks, because you have to make so many calls after someone dies that you quickly reach the point you don't want to say it again, but there's a circle of people who deserve to hear it, so you do it.

She could have called Doug to let him know, and then asked him to call County, but they wouldn't write it that way because they'd have to mention Doug.  She could have called Susan and asked her to spread the word, but the writers inexplicably chose to write her as petty and snippy with Susan, so they wouldn't have thought of that.

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, Camille said:

I especially hate the goobledygook explanation that she later gives to Mark:

"I told him not to come back. I was very strong. But I still thought he would come!"

So. . . you wanted him to come back, told him otherwise, and are now interpreting him respecting your wishes as "He doesn't love me anymore, because if he did, he would have read my mind and realized that when I told him NOT to come back, it meant COME BACK!"

AARGH.

Yeah it was just dumb. What's even dumber is that the letter she faxes to Doug is a long hand-written letter. She couldn't find Doug's address? Work address? But she knows his fax number?

And EVEN LAMER is that right after she faxes she calls him and he picks up. So basically she's known his phone number all along.

With that being said, as much as the ending of Season 5 was lame, "Power" was an excellent episode. One of those "catastrophe hits the ER" episodes that they've done so well, much like "Exodus" or "Blizzard." I really like it when all personal drama is put off for the sake of medical crises.

ETA: so Roxanne and Carter are over because Roxanne tries to sell insurance to patients? What a lame unexciting romance.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[Growsonwalls]

15 hours ago, debraran said:

I didn't realize until I googled some info of Alex Kingston, how many Romano/Corday posts and forums were out there. I thought I noticed the chemistry (at least for friendship) and wished they had better scripts but they had a lot of fans.  lol   I felt because Romano looked like he did and they made fun of his balding and height etc. and also made him very not PC at times, she would never date him. There was always a respect though and he held her on a pedestal.

I liked how "Lizzy" (to Romano) always knew who he really was, good and bad and truly loved him in her own way. When a fan wrote out all his nice comments and jokes , you realized how funny he was on the show and how many caring things he did even with a snarl. I wish he found a love interest other than the tall, beautiful women he would show up with at events and had a more rounded character. They used him as a caricature of the worst in some people (like Frank) but he could have been a much better character changing over the years and still holding on to some of his strong opinions but evolving.

Elizabeth and Mark were okay, normal, but there was always something "off" to me and when they brought in Rachel, it got worse. Sometimes I wished they brought in more from other areas than the ER, because you did tire of Luka dating Abby and Sam and Carol and then they could disappear when they broke up like Tag. ; )

I also wish Jeanne didn't get HIV and ended up with Peter, it could have been an interesting relationship.  They really didn't stretch Jeannies character too much, lots of fighting for equal status which was good but she became just that.

I thought Romano was totally creepy in Season 4 with his sexual harassment of Corday and in Season 5 with Doyle but over time I too started to 'ship Liz-Rocket because of the lameness of Mark/Elizabeth. Romano and Elizabeth weren't exactly romantic but I did enjoy the professional regard they had for each other, and Rocket could make "Lizzie" laugh whereas Mark never really could. And what's that about if you can make a woman laugh you can make her do anything?

Also Romano, Corday, and Benton all have very surgeon personalities. Direct, to-the-point, tough, no bullshit, and very into the technical side of medicine. The different procedures, the chance to operate on a Very Special Case. I feel like surgeons belong with surgeons. Corday and Mark didn't work because when she got with Mark they gradually wrote that surgeon personality out of her. But she still had it with Romano.

It's a small thing but one of the joys of the show was seeing the surgical team doing their meticulous scrub-ins in episode after episode. 

[Growsonwalls]

Working my way through Season 6 rewatch, 6 episodes in. A few thoughts:

1) Cleo Finch - NO WAY she's a pediatrician. She has the coldest bedside manner with kids, and the flattest affect. Kerry Weaver is better with sick kids than Cleo. I don't know why they hired her other than she looked good?

2) I don't find Luka's attentions to Carol sweet. I think it's kind of creepy, how he wants to be a father to her twins before they're even born. It's like he was more in love with Carol's uterus than Carol herself. And ... the twins have a father. Luka should respect that. 

3) The Jeanie-baby storyline is beyond ridiculous. I remember when Carol tried to adopt a girl with AIDS and had to go through the procedures and paperwork. Jeanie gets a cop husband and boom the baby is hers? I also think it was shitty of Jeanie (and out of character) to just stop showing up to work. After all Kerry had done for Jeanie, Jeanie should have had a talk with Kerry about her reasons for resigning. Again, a really shitty sendoff for a much loved character.

4) The Alan Alda storyline is a real heartbreaker. You could see that even with dementia he's a wonderful doctor. Kind, caring, patient. 

5) I actually like Malucci. Of the masses of new people they brought in Season 6, I actually like him the most? Maybe because only he and Romano have any semblance of a sense of humor. 

6) Said this before but the show really suffered without George Clooney. Luka was the "hot doc" but without Doug's humor. Malucci was the rebel/bad-boy without Doug's heart. Cleo was the pediatrician without Doug's way with kids. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[Ceindreadh]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Working my way through Season 6 rewatch, 6 episodes in. A few thoughts:

1) Cleo Finch - NO WAY she's a pediatrician. She has the coldest bedside manner with kids, and the flattest affect. Kerry Weaver is better with sick kids than Cleo. I don't know why they hired her other than she looked good?

 

5) I actually like Malucci. Of the masses of new people they brought in Season 6, I actually like him the most? Maybe because only he and Romano have any semblance of a sense of humor. 

6) Said this before but the show really suffered without George Clooney. Luka was the "hot doc" but without Doug's humor. Malucci was the rebel/bad-boy without Doug's heart. Cleo was the pediatrician without Doug's way with kids. 

1.  I haven't watched it since it first aired, but wasn't there a storyline where Reese needed to get checked out by a pediatrician?  To my mind they made Cleo a pediatrician just to have an excuse for her to cross paths with Peter, since she was being brought on as love interest for him.

 

5.  I loved Malucci.  I was so pissed when they practically ignored his character in S7 and don't get me started on the crappy way they wrote him out in season 8, grrr. 

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Working my way through Season 6 rewatch, 6 episodes in. A few thoughts:

1) Cleo Finch - NO WAY she's a pediatrician. She has the coldest bedside manner with kids, and the flattest affect. Kerry Weaver is better with sick kids than Cleo. I don't know why they hired her other than she looked good?

2) I don't find Luka's attentions to Carol sweet. I think it's kind of creepy, how he wants to be a father to her twins before they're even born. It's like he was more in love with Carol's uterus than Carol herself. And ... the twins have a father. Luka should respect that. 

3) The Jeanie-baby storyline is beyond ridiculous. I remember when Carol tried to adopt a girl with AIDS and had to go through the procedures and paperwork. Jeanie gets a cop husband and boom the baby is hers? I also think it was shitty of Jeanie (and out of character) to just stop showing up to work. After all Kerry had done for Jeanie, Jeanie should have had a talk with Kerry about her reasons for resigning. Again, a really shitty sendoff for a much loved character.

4) The Alan Alda storyline is a real heartbreaker. You could see that even with dementia he's a wonderful doctor. Kind, caring, patient. 

5) I actually like Malucci. Of the masses of new people they brought in Season 6, I actually like him the most? Maybe because only he and Romano have any semblance of a sense of humor. 

6) Said this before but the show really suffered without George Clooney. Luka was the "hot doc" but without Doug's humor. Malucci was the rebel/bad-boy without Doug's heart. Cleo was the pediatrician without Doug's way with kids. 

 

1.  I think TPTB were trying to kill 2 birds with the same stone by casting Michael Michelle as Cleo.  They needed an African American love interest for Peter and, with Clooney gone, they needed a pediatric presence in the ER.  Remember how many pediatric ER based storylines there were in the Clooney years; the little boy dying of AIDS, his problems with his bosses, his crusade for a pediatric ER specialist position, even his exit storyline with Joi and her son.  Unfortunately, I think TPTB cast her for looks rather than talent and it became clear pretty early on that MM was too cold and wooden to help tell the sorts of storylines that Clooney had handled; GC just oozes charm and warmth and caring.

2.  While Luka might not have cared much about Carol's babydaddy; let's face it, for most of the season, Carol acted like he didn't matter, either.  Considering how little contact she seemingly had with Doug both during and after the pregnancy, I can see how Luka got the idea that Doug was an absent father by choice and she didn't really want him around.

3.  Jeannie wasn't initially going to adopt Carlos, she wanted to foster him, which is different than Carol wanting to adopt Tatiana on a whim.  Of course, she somehow got qualified to do it in record time, and, apparently suffered no consequences for testing him for HIV without parental consent.  Most hospitals would terminate an employee who did that.  Of course, she would've also been fired for being AWOL for weeks on end.  Even if Carlos was sick and she needed to be home with him; we were never told why Jeannie, always a conscientious employee, suddenly forgot to call HR when she was not coming to work.  

4.  Alan Alda's storyline was one of the best of the later seasons.  'The Peace of Wild Things', his exit from the show, is one of my favorite episodes.  It, of course, helped to have a talented actor who connects with audiences like AA, but it was an interesting storyline that gave several of the regulars some really good stuff, too.  His final convo with Kerry is just beautiful.

5. Malucci had a lot of potential, he was obviously meant to replace Doug as the cowboy rule breaker with the sad childhood.  Alas, he got lost in the shuffle with the introduction of so many characters simultaneously and because he came onboard just as Abby arrived and ate the whole show.

6.  George Clooney showed his movie star chops on ER.  It's funny watching the early episodes and seeing that he didn't get anymore screentime than anyone else, but, when he was onscreen, all eyes were on him.  That's charisma, in spades.

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

5. Malucci had a lot of potential, he was obviously meant to replace Doug as the cowboy rule breaker with the sad childhood.  Alas, he got lost in the shuffle with the introduction of so many characters simultaneously and because he came onboard just as Abby arrived and ate the whole show.

6.  George Clooney showed his movie star chops on ER.  It's funny watching the early episodes and seeing that he didn't get anymore screentime than anyone else, but, when he was onscreen, all eyes were on him.  That's charisma, in spades.

One really lovely Malucci moment was when he hastily scrawled the goodbye message for a comatose patient on a box of gloves. Then he found out the patient died and he read the message anyway. There was no tinkly piano music and he read it in that awkward bro way, but anyone who does that isn't a bad guy. I don't know why everyone in the ER treated him like pondscum. He didn't seem like a bad doctor. And on a shallow note, I liked his navy blue scrubs. 

And you're right about Clooney in the early episodes. In fact Mark was clearly the lead and Doug didn't nearly as much screentime. But he does he trademark giggle and the scene is his. 

Speaking of pointless Season 6 storylines, I hated the Carter/Elaine storyline. Rebecca de Mornay played Elaine as so cold and I have no clue why Carter would be so into her. 

ETA: As for Carol/Luka/Doug, Carol mentioned to Mark that Doug has been calling her and leaving messages, she says that she misses him, it seems as if they were in a lot more contact than was shown onscreen. And of course the whole season was sort of set up so Carol would eventually leave to join Doug. I guess my issue is that Luka is SO eager to jump straight into a relationship with a woman who just had twins with another guy. As I said he seems more in love with the idea of replacing his own kids than Carol herself. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[txhorns79]

Quote

I don't know why everyone in the ER treated him like pondscum. He didn't seem like a bad doctor. And on a shallow note, I liked his navy blue scrubs. 

I think he got treated the way he got treated because he was very immature, and said some pretty awful things to the female doctors. 

[Bastet]

Yeah, Malucci was generally a disrespectful jerk, and people responded accordingly.  I was very happy to see him go; I cannot stand people like that, and I somehow find them even more annoying as TV characters. 

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, Malucci was generally a disrespectful jerk, and people responded accordingly.  I was very happy to see him go; I cannot stand people like that, and I somehow find them even more annoying as TV characters. 

Idk, I feel like he was more realistic than most of the ER cast? I think there's people like Malucci, Romano, and Weaver in the working world than John Truman Carter III's.  And I kind of 'shipped him and Lucy. They certainly had more chemistry than Lucy and Carter.

Looking back and watching the episodes he wasn't a bad doctor. His bedside manner was pretty good for a resident. And of course he had an easy rapport with kids in the way that Cleo the pediatrician totally didn't.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Looking back and watching the episodes he wasn't a bad doctor. His bedside manner was pretty good for a resident. And of course he had an easy rapport with kids in the way that Cleo the pediatrician totally didn't.

In fairness, Cleo was a robot, so she likely couldn't experience human emotions.  I do agree that Malucci was a victim of the cast bloat they had at the time.  I also laugh that they make a point of telling Ray to dress more professionally, when by the end of the show, you have the doctors and nurses emulating Ray's casual look.

[debraran]

12 hours ago, doodlebug said:

1.  I think TPTB were trying to kill 2 birds with the same stone by casting Michael Michelle as Cleo.  They needed an African American love interest for Peter and, with Clooney gone, they needed a pediatric presence in the ER.  Remember how many pediatric ER based storylines there were in the Clooney years; the little boy dying of AIDS, his problems with his bosses, his crusade for a pediatric ER specialist position, even his exit storyline with Joi and her son.  Unfortunately, I think TPTB cast her for looks rather than talent and it became clear pretty early on that MM was too cold and wooden to help tell the sorts of storylines that Clooney had handled; GC just oozes charm and warmth and caring.

2.  While Luka might not have cared much about Carol's babydaddy; let's face it, for most of the season, Carol acted like he didn't matter, either.  Considering how little contact she seemingly had with Doug both during and after the pregnancy, I can see how Luka got the idea that Doug was an absent father by choice and she didn't really want him around.

3.  Jeannie wasn't initially going to adopt Carlos, she wanted to foster him, which is different than Carol wanting to adopt Tatiana on a whim.  Of course, she somehow got qualified to do it in record time, and, apparently suffered no consequences for testing him for HIV without parental consent.  Most hospitals would terminate an employee who did that.  Of course, she would've also been fired for being AWOL for weeks on end.  Even if Carlos was sick and she needed to be home with him; we were never told why Jeannie, always a conscientious employee, suddenly forgot to call HR when she was not coming to work.  

4.  Alan Alda's storyline was one of the best of the later seasons.  'The Peace of Wild Things', his exit from the show, is one of my favorite episodes.  It, of course, helped to have a talented actor who connects with audiences like AA, but it was an interesting storyline that gave several of the regulars some really good stuff, too.  His final convo with Kerry is just beautiful.

5. Malucci had a lot of potential, he was obviously meant to replace Doug as the cowboy rule breaker with the sad childhood.  Alas, he got lost in the shuffle with the introduction of so many characters simultaneously and because he came onboard just as Abby arrived and ate the whole show.

6.  George Clooney showed his movie star chops on ER.  It's funny watching the early episodes and seeing that he didn't get anymore screentime than anyone else, but, when he was onscreen, all eyes were on him.  That's charisma, in spades.

I liked Morettii and thought Abby had more chemistry with him than Luka.  His scripts weren’t the best but he is a great actor. 

I loved Alan Alda also and his excellent portrayal of a doctor losing his memory. I also loved the MASH reference when he said he learned a technique in the war.

Jeanne  wouldn’t have just took off like that but her storyline with adoption made more sense. Carol tried to kill herself just a year prior, she was a bad risk.  She was upset but she knew it wasnt right and her fiancé wasn’t on board.  Funny, carol just took off from work to see Doug but she didn’t care about her job at that point. Good thing he was happy to see her ?

Edited September 16, 2018 by debraran
Wrong doc

[Growsonwalls]

Malucci had a smart mouth (sort of like Romano and before him, Doug Ross) but as I said he had a sense of humor which was by season 6 sorely lacking in the show. Mark, Carter, Benton, Kerry, Lucy, Luka, Cleo, Abby, Carol ... they were all a really glum bunch in Season 6. Corday still had a spark with Romano but by then was dragged into the black hole of Mark humorlessness. Malucci's one-liners had me laughing, like the time he called Kerry a "warden" and said "That's ... colorful" after a guy who ate paint threw up everywhere. And there were moments when he was kind. 

I would have nixed Cleo the Robot out of that Season 6 cohort.

[Growsonwalls]

Continuing on with Season 6 (now through Ep. 10 Family Matters) god however did I forget that in addition to dropping Luka, Abby, Malucci and Cleo into the show they also brought back Jing-Mei/Deb? What were they thinking bloating up the regular characters that much?

Going back to the Christmas episode ("How the Finch Stole Christmas") I can't believe they had Cleo handle that storyline with the alcoholic teen. Pretty much ANY doctor could have made those scenes more moving. Forget Doug Ross. Rocket Romano probably could have had us crying into our eggnogs talking to that lonely angry kid and his dysfunctional mom. But Cleo has the deadest eyes, the coldest affect, and the bedside manner of Nurse Ratched. 

It was otherwise a really good Christmas episode. Maybe not as great as "Blizzard" or "Homeless for the Holidays" but many heartwarming storylines. I really liked Romano agreeing to scrub in on Christmas to save the woman with the heart problem and the kind, professional way he treats Lucy. 

I love the storyline of Corday and the serial rapist/murderer. It's so weird. Corday has great chemistry with so many actors in the series. Benton, Romano, the serial rapist, Mark's dad. It's only Mark where there's nada. Zip. Nothing. I also liked Malucci gently telling that kid that the cancer was untreatable. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[txhorns79]

Quote

Continuing on with Season 8 (now through Ep. 10 Family Matters) god however did I forget that in addition to dropping Luka, Abby, Malucci and Cleo into the show they also brought back Jing-Mei/Deb? What were they thinking bloating up the regular characters that much?

I think they knew that it was likely Mark and Peter would exit the series after Season 8, and they wanted to introduce characters that could make up for their absence without it being obvious the character was meant as a replacement for an already existing character (like the obvious replacement of Luka for Doug and Abby for Carol). 

[RedbirdNelly]

Malucci would have been a great character to gradually make into a great doctor--kind of like how Morris transforms magically from incompetent to solid at the end. Malucci starts out really raw and is a jerk, but has some kindness underneath. It's not unrealistic that he would have continued to improve as a doctor and gotten better on the personal stuff---because his jerk side seemed more a form of immaturity as opposed to unfixable character flaw. I too loved the episode where he comes back to read the last words on the box in a very Malucci way.

I finished the series this weekend. It's weird to get teary eyed during the opening credits but I did (thanks, show, for bringing back the old music and some of the old scenes, including the Benton karate chop). I also felt actor playing Frank did a fantastic job of reacting to realizing the prospective med student on the tour was Mark's daughter. You really see so much on his face---not just a "hey it's Rachel grown up" but more of a touching remembrance of Mark. I guess I will start randomly taping other episodes to watch while I warm up/cool down on the treadmill, which is how I've been watching these.

[Growsonwalls]

9 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Malucci would have been a great character to gradually make into a great doctor--kind of like how Morris transforms magically from incompetent to solid at the end. Malucci starts out really raw and is a jerk, but has some kindness underneath. It's not unrealistic that he would have continued to improve as a doctor and gotten better on the personal stuff---because his jerk side seemed more a form of immaturity as opposed to unfixable character flaw. I too loved the episode where he comes back to read the last words on the box in a very Malucci way.

I felt like they were pushing Luka hard to be the Doug replacement, but Malucci is more like Doug. Luka is sober and serious. Malucci like Doug was a rebel, hotheaded, smart mouth, but also kind and sensitive underneath. I feel like Doug in his earlier years as resident probably was a lot like Malucci. Malucci is also one of those people (like Doug) who clashed with Kerry Weaver/management because he didn't really care about hierarchy/procedure and wasn't afraid to challenge authority. But as I said, he also goes above and beyond, like the time he went to the back-alley "pharmacy" and took stuff from them so he could report them to the police, or when he read that note to the patient who died simply because he wanted to fulfill his promise. 

But I feel like by Season 6 they were less interested in slowly developing characters. Like for instance Cleo and Benton had met like once when Cleo treated Reese. They never interact again and all of a sudden in the middle of season 6 he asks her out. No development of their relationship, no flirtation (the way he and Corday flirted before either acted on it) just "hey let's go out."

Speaking of prickly characters having their moments I loved Romano apologizing to Lucy for the failed heart transplant. He said it in his usual gruff  way but you could tell he was sincere and admired Lucy for her efforts. 

[PepSinger]

On 9/15/2018 at 9:24 PM, txhorns79 said:

In fairness, Cleo was a robot, so she likely couldn't experience human emotions. 

I choked on my coffee when I read this.

 

On 9/14/2018 at 6:25 PM, Bastet said:

But business is the key word; unlike a loan application, "Your friend is dead" and "I'm pregnant" are not things normally transmitted via fax. 

LOL. Even when I watched Mark's death episode when I was super young -- 12, I think -- I was really confused by announcing a death via fax. I don't think I've seen that on TV since.

[Growsonwalls]

I just saw the double-whammy of "Be Still My Heart" and "All In the Family." Wow it still packs a punch. If anything it's even more heartwrenching watching it now when I'm older. What a great episode, and such great acting by everybody. In particular, I loved how the most unflappable, unlikable characters in the ER all lost their cool:

- Anspaugh scrubbing in furiously while heaving. In the past we saw the surgeons' mechanical, methodical scrub-ins. There was none of that there.

- Kerry Weaver, face white as a sheet, going outside and throwing up. Then later, her being so shaken she couldn't even be in the same room as Paul. Laura Innes acted the shit out of this episode.

- Peter barreling down the hallways, and screaming at the top of his lungs in the OR as Carter lost more and more blood, and trying to operate on Carter while having to hyperventilate into his mask, and then being unable to operate on another patient because he couldn't leave Carter in the OR.

- the residents Chen and Malucci (who had spent the day bickering over a patient and acting immature) screaming about the severity of the stab wounds. And later Luka/Abby/Chen/Malucci being too shook to even go home and just sitting at Doc Magoo's unable to do anything.

- Romano and Corday, the two master surgeons, reduced to sitting in the hallway, both unable to stand. And then later both of them unwilling to call Lucy's death. When Romano threw the operating materials to the ground and started crying and Corday called "time of death 2:56" I lost it. That was amazing acting by Paul McCrane and Alex Kingston. Also I loved that the last words Lucy heard was the extremely kind "Ms. Knight, we've invested too much in you to lose you" from Romano. I loved the acting of Kellie Martin in that scene. You could see that she heard those words, and sort of exhaled. At least she died knowing people cared about her.

- But the scene that really got to me was Benton tending to Carter post-surgery, and being unable to tell Carter that Lucy had died. Mr. Straight Shooter Benton just avoiding Carter's questions until Carter realized the truth. Eriq La Salle also acted the shit out of this episode. I loved the way he started doing things normally a nurse would do, because it was Carter. 

- The final scene of Romano and Weaver stitching up Lucy was almost too much to watch. Again, Paul McCrane was amazing here. His eyes were red with tears.

I loved how in this episode the focus was not on the usual "good guys" of the ER but on Team Asshole. Romano, Weaver, Anspaugh, Benton, even Corday (who is nice in her personal life but very much a hard-charging surgeon) all did amazing acting in this episode and showed their heart and soul. Great two episodes. 

[Peace 47]

7 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I just saw the double-whammy of "Be Still My Heart" and "All In the Family." Wow it still packs a punch.

Agreed.  I also liked all the small touches that made it even more poignant.  Like Elizabeth going home at the end of everything, her mother asking her if she wanted to talk about it, and Elizabeth sitting, looking shell-shocked and far too spent for even tears, saying, “Not particularly.”    

The wait to find Lucy and Carter during the “All in the Family” cold open was excruciating.  The way Laura Innes kind of screamed when Weaver finally found them was so sad, too.  I know it’s just a show, but the thought of poor Lucy and Carter having to lie there, scared, injured and alone, makes me sad all these years later.

[RedbirdNelly]

2 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Agreed.  I also liked all the small touches that made it even more poignant.  Like Elizabeth going home at the end of everything, her mother asking her if she wanted to talk about it, and Elizabeth sitting, looking shell-shocked and far too spent for even tears, saying, “Not particularly.”    

The wait to find Lucy and Carter during the “All in the Family” cold open was excruciating.  The way Laura Innes kind of screamed when Weaver finally found them was so sad, too.  I know it’s just a show, but the thought of poor Lucy and Carter having to lie there, scared, injured and alone, makes me sad all these years later.

the episodes definitely hold up. The part that gutted me most the first time and still gets me is when Carter slumps to the floor and looks over to see Lucy. I hope they won Emmy's for those episodes. They were both so well done.

[Growsonwalls]

What killed me was that "Be Still My Heart" was nothing out of the ordinary in terms of a day in the ER. Romano showed his lighter side by bringing his dog Gretel to be operated upon,Malucci/Chen were bickering and trying to one-up each other while treating the cancer patient, Mark's dad David was showing her lighter side as well. Paul did not present initially as violent at all. I could see why the psych consult didn't come down right away as Paul seemed more like someone slightly weird rather than violent. 

Romano absolutely killed it in "All in the Family." That Benton would be melting down over Carter was a given -- we already knew that Benton cared a lot about Carter. But Romano being unable to stand after Lucy's surgery was shocking and heartbreaking. 

This along with "Blizzard," "Hell and High Water," "Love's Labor Lost," "Exodus" and "Night Shift" are IMO the best ER episodes of all time.

[RedbirdNelly]

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

What killed me was that "Be Still My Heart" was nothing out of the ordinary in terms of a day in the ER. Romano showed his lighter side by bringing his dog Gretel to be operated upon,Malucci/Chen were bickering and trying to one-up each other while treating the cancer patient, Mark's dad David was showing her lighter side as well. Paul did not present initially as violent at all. I could see why the psych consult didn't come down right away as Paul seemed more like someone slightly weird rather than violent. 

 

that's one of the things that ER did really well on its best episodes. Even though something big was going to happen in the episode, a bunch of normal stuff went on too. When you were watching Be Still My Heart there were not countless indications that Paul was the big case/that something big was about to happen. Grey's Anatomy could borrow from that.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:30 AM, starri said:

 

I think the last time I completely liked Mark was when he sat down with the kid with the favored half-brother who drowned.  Just the overwhelming kindness he showed...

that was such a great scene. Really gets to you even watching it on reruns (kind of have to remind myself "these are just actors. That poor boy is not a real person" to get past it).

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

the episodes definitely hold up. The part that gutted me most the first time and still gets me is when Carter slumps to the floor and looks over to see Lucy. I hope they won Emmy's for those episodes. They were both so well done.

Laura Innes directed 'Be Still My Heart' including those harrowing last couple minutes as the Low Fidelity All Stars' 'Battle Flag' set the stage for the horror to come.  A masterful job of direction, one of the most suspenseful sequences ever on TV, IMO.

[debraran]

I agree with everyone about those shows, absolutely wonderful acting. That's what made me years ago, give up when they went from stellar performances from Romano, Corday, Peter, etc and had limbs ripped off, helicopters falling, it was like "What?" I missed the Morris transformation which I liked now but it was too much then. I tuned in when old characters came back.  I remember, although it might sound stupid, watching ER on Hulu and seeing the start of one show with a guy in bed with 2 women and they were fawning over him. I seriously thought I hit on the wrong show and hit back button. It was Dr Brenner but I was seeing the beginning of ER being about sex and who was dating Neela.

Those shows really highlight what a great script and great acting can do. I also needed to shake off the boy Dr Greene talked too about his parents. It just stayed with me.

I can't believe I missed this, Anthony Edwards abused?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/11/10/anthony-edwards-says-gary-goddard-molested-him-for-years/852778001/

[txhorns79]

in Season 4, I find it utterly bizarre that the hospital would settle a lawsuit with the family of the boy who died under Mark's care, while apparently not having language in the release that would prevent them from filing a second civil rights lawsuit against Mark.  Because the first thing Mark would do in that lawsuit is join the hospital, and the process starts all over again.  

Also, Carol wears jeans to her big grant meeting with Gamma.  I get that Carol doesn't necessarily understand how the grant process works, but it seems like she's sophisticated enough to understand the concept of dressing professionally for a business meeting.