All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[RedbirdNelly]

I'm still way behind (and in fear of running out of DVR space; tough decisions have to be made; I possibly have quietly deleted some of my husband's shows)--so I just watched the episode last night when Peter left. It was as great as I remembered with respect to his goodbye scene with Carter. I wish the writers had handled other parts of the later seasons as well as they did that piece. And I liked his wink to Elizabeth as he exited the miracle surgery of the 6 year old.

[desertflower]

Just watched Orion in the Sky and have already gone through my big pile of tissues. Guess I'll need a new box for the Letter and On the Beach. I love that they brought back the older black patient Al, who I believe was in the pilot. When Mark decides he's done with treatment and tells Al he's going to help him find his cart....sob! And when Chuny looks at Mark and her face says that she knows he'll be gone soon...sob! And his scenes with Jen and with Elizabeth...sob some more. Lord, I'm a mess!

[Gigi43]

Another thing they did well for long time viewers, they broke up Morgansterns speech from the pilot. Mark said to Carter "you set the tone " but that was it. What Kerry said, which she wasn't even around for the pilot, about how people  are  going to look to Carter, that was basically the rest of the speech,  and it was originally Morganstern talking about handling the response to Carol's overdose (which at the time of filming was her death.)

 

I love that Mark didn't just walk out entirely. He had a moment with Carter and felt the need to say some advice to Kerry. For all the tension between them, that was pretty much the perfect last scene for them.

[slasherboy]

On 10/28/2017 at 10:57 AM, walnutqueen said:

Did we ever see Kerry with her dog again?  Because that might have humanized her just a little ... and provided some plot continuity.

Like Mark/Rachel's mutt from so long ago ...

Those dogs would be Stinky and Nick, respectively.

I missed some stuff today ..... Susan went to NYC to find Chloe (ugh!) and Lil Susie.  I saw Chloe in the alley, but where was Lil Susie?

And in thinking back and catching up, whatever happened to Chase?

Peter Scolari was spotted.  He was in "Bosom Buddies" with Tom Hanks a LONG time ago, and in "Newhart", the one where he ran an inn in Vermont.

[Bastet]

Jester came to the funeral!

I cried through this whole episode, and by the time we got to his dying dream montage I was trembling with those tears.

I like that Mark and Rachel having a nice day together, talking about his childhood and surfing, isn’t some instant cure-all; she’s still sneaking around to drink and snatch his pills.  Hearing him say he’d take back every bad moment he had with his father if he could, but he can’t, doesn’t magically transform her from petulant teen to dutiful daughter.  But she’s seen that Mark remembers how it feels to be the adolescent in the equation, and that you can wish it could be erased without being crippled by regret.  Everything isn’t made okay in his final days, but the foundation is there for her to grow up and learn how to cope with it all.  Nicely done.

 

[voiceover]

So that beeping sound you hear, that's the truck backing up to the PTV forums, ready to unload a shit-ton of Kleenex.

It's on me, guys.

[voiceover]

Hey, thread meds!

1. Why do deceased patients who have been intubated, still have the mouthpiece?

IIRC, someone told a relative in a prior ep, it was because of the pending autopsy.  Why?

2. Watching Carter perform a tracheotomy.  Thinking of Hawkeye talking Fr Mulcahy through it on an ep of M*A*S*H, and Peter being yanked away from Carter to perform one on Lucy.  With ER docs performing other procedures that involve a scalpel, why do trachs seem to be exclusively a surgeon's purview?

[jjj]

I actually found "The Letter" to be much more moving than "On the Beach" -- especially the ER staff who have been on the show as long as Greene.  The grieving felt more real there.  Glad they got Benton back for the funeral.

I had one huge, huge quibble in "On the Beach", starting early in the episode, with Mark picking up Rachel from school -- no glioblastoma patient going through surgery and treatment would be allowed to drive, and certainly not an end-stage patient.   This is not a personal choice -- DMVs actually revoke licenses.  And with good reason.  It is one of the many shocks of this diagnosis, to suddenly be told you can't drive. 

[Liamsmom617]

24 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Hey, thread meds!

1. Why do deceased patients who have been intubated, still have the mouthpiece?

IIRC, someone told a relative in a prior ep, it was because of the pending autopsy.  Why?

2. Watching Carter perform a tracheotomy.  Thinking of Hawkeye talking Fr Mulcahy through it on an ep of M*A*S*H, and Peter being yanked away from Carter to perform one on Lucy.  With ER docs performing other procedures that involve a scalpel, why do trachs seem to be exclusively a surgeon's purview?

My sister is an RN. This was her reply: 

 

[Automne]

Oh snap, I didn't realize the episode on now was the one where Romano loses his arm via helicopter blade! I remember this episode and "The Letter" the most. I was a high school senior when this one aired. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Automne

[voiceover]

Thanks @Liamsmom617! And thank sister of @Liamsmom617!! (@liamsaunt?) I love that we're having experts flown in ?.

Somebody posted Romano's all-time snark, pages ago, but I'd forgotten until he said it in this ep: "...and I expect them to be treated like his mother, but without the inappropriate touching!"

Edited November 1, 2017 by voiceover

[Bastet]

Helicopter 1, Romano 0

That shot when he looks over and sees his severed arm is quite memorable.  I love when he comes to and groans, "Oh, I'm at County."

Poor Mr. Hirsch.

[voiceover]

Yeah, the "County!" line was a perfect bookend to the "mother toucher" zing.  Remind me that today's eps will show up in a week or so on Saturdays -- right?

Because I stepped out of the room, forgetting the helicopter moment, and missed it.

(I have a talent for this.  I was in the kitchen when Justin Timberlake & Janet Jackson had that "wardrobe malfunction".)

eta: Ha! to Elizabeth's "boorish, virulent ponce".  I've worked with some of those.  God, who's better than the English.

Edited November 1, 2017 by voiceover
"pounce" is a verb

[walnutqueen]

As I was FFing through commercials after that lame monkey pox makeup job on those kids, I inadvertently glimpsed that awful Skittles pox ad, and had a fit of giggles.

[jjj]

32 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Yeah, the "County!" line was a perfect bookend to the "mother toucher" zing.  Remind me that today's eps will show up in a week or so on Saturdays -- right?

Because I stepped out of the room, forgetting the helicopter moment, and missed it.

They get farther out of sync each Saturday -- these will show up in around 2 or 3 Saturdays.

If they keep to the same schedule (seven episodes each Saturday), they will get to "The Letter" on November 11, then "On the Beach"/"Lockdown"/"Chaos Theory" on November 18. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by jjj

[slasherboy]

2 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

As I was FFing through commercials after that lame monkey pox makeup job on those kids, I inadvertently glimpsed that awful Skittles pox ad, and had a fit of giggles.

SAME!!  Made me want to pull off a monkey pox and eat it!  (eeeeeewwwwww)

Edited November 2, 2017 by slasherboy

[jjj]

If anyone DVR'd "On the Beach," put on the closed captioning in the final cemetery scene -- originally there was a voiceover, and it might show up in the closed captioning -- I forgot to check!  Not sure whose voice it was (and that will not be apparent unless they indicate the speaker in the closed captioning).   

[walnutqueen]

12 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

SAME!!  Made me one to pull off a monkey pox and eat it!  (eeeeeewwwwww)

Sooo GROSS!!!  Actually, the monkey pox reminded me of 3 hole punch debris - until I saw that ad and remembered The. Worst Skittles. Ad. Ever.  ;-)

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, slasherboy said:

Those dogs would be Stinky and Nick, respectively.

I missed some stuff today ..... Susan went to NYC to find Chloe (ugh!) and Lil Susie.  I saw Chloe in the alley, but where was Lil Susie?

And in thinking back and catching up, whatever happened to Chase?

Peter Scolari was spotted.  He was in "Bosom Buddies" with Tom Hanks a LONG time ago, and in "Newhart", the one where he ran an inn in Vermont.

The episode with Susan searching for her sister and niece was a crossover with another NBC show produced by the same people, I think it was maybe 'Third Watch'.  Anyway, the episode continued on that show, not ER and they did eventually locate and rescue Lil Susie although I don't recall the details.

Chase suffered severe neurologic damage after his heroin overdose and resides in a nursing home.  We saw Carter visit him mid Season 7.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, voiceover said:

Hey, thread meds!

1. Why do deceased patients who have been intubated, still have the mouthpiece?

IIRC, someone told a relative in a prior ep, it was because of the pending autopsy.  Why?

2. Watching Carter perform a tracheotomy.  Thinking of Hawkeye talking Fr Mulcahy through it on an ep of M*A*S*H, and Peter being yanked away from Carter to perform one on Lucy.  With ER docs performing other procedures that involve a scalpel, why do trachs seem to be exclusively a surgeon's purview?

As noted above, anyone who dies within 24 hours of hospital admission is considered a 'coroner's case'.  That means the coroner is contacted about the death and he/she investigates and determines the cause. All ET tubes. IV lines, etc are left in place so, if the coroner needs to examine the body or even perform an autopsy, there is no mistaking injuries, bruising from medical procedures for traumatic injuries that might've been responsible for the death.  The only exception to the coroner's case rule is a patient who is already under a physician's care who is willing to certify that the patient had a terminal illness.  For example, when Mark died in Hawaii, the coroner's office probably contacted his oncologist back in Chicago who would've told them he was terminally ill and the coroner would sign the death certificate without further investigation.  When my father died in the ER after a heart attack, they contacted his doctor who verified he had high blood pressure which wasn't enough for the coroner to sign off.  He very kindly called me after hearing I was a physician; asked if I had any concerns about foul play (no) and did I want a formal autopsy (no).  He signed off without an autopsy.

Although we see ER docs doing all kinds of surgical stuff, in real life, they don't; especially in the case of big city ER's where there are plenty of surgical residents around.  Even back 30+ years ago when I was a resident, ER docs rarely even intubated sick patients, instead calling anesthesia to do it.  Trachs are kinda trickier than most procedures though.  There are some nerves right there which, if severed, could leave the patient without a voice.  There are also some big blood vessles nearby which, if severed, could be fatal.  In real life, any old surgeon wouldn't routinely do a trach; an ear, nose and throat specialist would be called on to do it.  BTW, in real life, emergency trachs are done in the ER virtually never.

Edited November 2, 2017 by doodlebug

[slasherboy]

33 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

The episode with Susan searching for her sister and niece was a crossover with another NBC show produced by the same people, I think it was maybe 'Third Watch'.  Anyway, the episode continued on that show, not ER and they did eventually locate and rescue Lil Susie although I don't recall the details.

Chase suffered severe neurologic damage after his heroin overdose and resides in a nursing home.  We saw Carter visit him mid Season 7.

Thanks doodlebug.  I hoped Chloe would be dead and I didn't care about Lil Susie.  Although the baby who played her when she was just an infant was precious.  On that same note, Baby Ella in Hawaii was so sweet when she smiled and laughed.  I don't care if Chase dies either.

[Watchingsometv]

I just found this page and I love it. I have been rewatching on pop since season 1 was aired, what, a few months ago, and have so many thoughts! Look forward to reading and sharing!

[voiceover]

Thanks @doodlebug.  I'm glad to be learning these things, and I appreciate the thread medicos taking the time.  

So I guess Father Mulcahy's trach-under-fire, not likely.  Thanks to that ep, though, I can recite the steps.

[absnow54]

I could only make it through The Letter today. The Carter scenes became even more poignant when you realize he's about the same age as Mark when the series started (Susan mentioned he was 38, and Carter is now 30.) It just seemed like a nice way to bookend the "you set the tone" eras. 

I'm also beginning to enter my "over Abby" phase. It was annoying that the scene that was supposed to be about Mark's colleagues celebrating his life turned into an intervention for her. 

And I never watched Third Watch, but damn, their Pasta Fazool accents really grates. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by absnow54

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, slasherboy said:

On that same note, Baby Ella in Hawaii was so sweet when she smiled and laughed.

I read on the ER Wiki (as part of unsuccessfully looking for info on an originally-scripted VO for Mark's funeral, per a post above) that baby Ella was played by Alex Kingston's daughter, but I haven't confirmed if that's true.

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I read on the ER Wiki (as part of unsuccessfully looking for info on an originally-scripted VO for Mark's funeral, per a post above) that baby Ella was played by Alex Kingston's daughter, but I haven't confirmed if that's true.

Thanks, I also searched around for the original voiceover that used to (still does?) show up in closed captioning.  No luck!  That's why I asked for a DVR report here, because I forgot to check while it aired. 

This site says that Salome Haertel, Alex Kingston's daughter, did play Ella for four episodes, including "On the Beach" -- I thought she was a delightful baby in "On the Beach", and this explains her rapport with Elizabeth:  http://www.tv.com/people/salome-haertel/ 

Edited November 2, 2017 by jjj

[CarolMK]

I've been taping the episodes airing during the day to watch at night. Finally watched On the Beach , I've never seen it before and I thought it was very well done. Mark Greene left this world on his own terms in a place he really loved and was surrounded by all who loved him. I did think it was a bit strange to see everyone at his funeral and no one shedding a tear, because I sure did. 

[kathy42977]

5 hours ago, CarolMK said:

I've been taping the episodes airing during the day to watch at night. Finally watched On the Beach , I've never seen it before and I thought it was very well done. Mark Greene left this world on his own terms in a place he really loved and was surrounded by all who loved him. I did think it was a bit strange to see everyone at his funeral and no one shedding a tear, because I sure did. 

I think both Elizabeth and Carrie were crying.

Those who weren't  looked on the verge of crying or at least heartbroken.

My throat hurt so bad during this episode because I was trying so hard not to cry. My Grandma's nurse was here so I didn't  want to look like an idiot.

It was sad not just because Mark died, but it truly feels like the end of ER as I know it.

These new characters coming in just don't do it for me. They are like generic versions of the castmates that just left. And the cast chemistry is gone.

[desertflower]

14 hours ago, jjj said:

If anyone DVR'd "On the Beach," put on the closed captioning in the final cemetery scene -- originally there was a voiceover, and it might show up in the closed captioning -- I forgot to check!  Not sure whose voice it was (and that will not be apparent unless they indicate the speaker in the closed captioning).   

I checked the CC on mine and it only showed what the minister was saying.

 

Well, On the Beach didn't wreck me as much this time as it did when it first aired, but it was close! And by the way, I'm going to take a CGI class so I can digitally insert Doug and Carol into the funeral scene. I'm a little surprised more of the nurses weren't there as well, like Lydia and Chuny. I did see Haleh. 

I love that they incorporated Mark's surfing and mentioned that he used to have long hair, because it reminds me of Anthony's part in Fast Times.

Let's have a moment to remember both Mark Greene and AE's awesome surfer hair, shall we?

[Liamsmom617]

16 hours ago, voiceover said:

Thanks @Liamsmom617! And thank sister of @Liamsmom617!! (@liamsaunt?) I love that we're having experts flown in ?.

Somebody posted Romano's all-time snark, pages ago, but I'd forgotten until he said it in this ep: "...and I expect them to be treated like his mother, but without the inappropriate touching!"

You’re so welcome!! (Loving “@liamsaunt617”!!)

[walnutqueen]

Romano had THE best lines, and such a great deadpan delivery!  I lived for his scenes (well, until the whole arm thing).

[RedbirdNelly]

I'm still 10 episodes behind. I know Voiceover already called the BINGO square for Christina Hendricks, but I'm not sure anyone has called it for the guy playing Paul S (schizophrenic who killed Lucy)'s casework/psychologist. I don't know the actor's name but he played Craig Montgomery--a jerk character on As the World Turns in the 1980s.

[desertflower]

29 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I'm still 10 episodes behind. I know Voiceover already called the BINGO square for Christina Hendricks, but I'm not sure anyone has called it for the guy playing Paul S (schizophrenic who killed Lucy)'s casework/psychologist. I don't know the actor's name but he played Craig Montgomery--a jerk character on As the World Turns in the 1980s.

Yes! I was a big ATWT fan in the 80s and I still spot people from that show on various things. A lot of them turned up on Law and Order. Another one I saw recently on ER was the guy who played villain Gavin Krueger. He was the husband who didn't want his wife's organs harvested until she died naturally. 

Also, on the Third Watch crossover episode when they are looking for Chloe one of the cops was Colin from BH90210. 

[LizDC]

41 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I don't know the actor's name but he played Craig Montgomery--a jerk character on As the World Turns in the 1980s.

That was Scott Bryce.

[desertflower]

Another guest star bingo I forgot to mention....Lori Petty (Point Break, League of Their Own) as the pregnant junkie who Mark yells at.

[doodlebug]

16 hours ago, Bastet said:

I read on the ER Wiki (as part of unsuccessfully looking for info on an originally-scripted VO for Mark's funeral, per a post above) that baby Ella was played by Alex Kingston's daughter, but I haven't confirmed if that's true.

The only voice over I recall from On the Beach was the minister reading from the Bible.  My closed captioning didn't indicate any other voiceover other than what we saw.

Deleted part where I misunderstood the previous poster.

Edited November 2, 2017 by doodlebug

[jjj]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

The only voice over I recall from On the Beach was the minister reading from the Bible.  My closed captioning didn't indicate any other voiceover other than what was heard.

Thanks!  The mention of the captioned, but not audible, voiceover was in the original TWoP recap when it first aired. 

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, jjj said:

Thanks!  The mention of the captioned, but not audible, voiceover was in the original TWoP recap when it first aired. 

The minister was actually reading the same Bible quote we got in Carter's grandfather's funeral, "I am the resurrection and the life...".  It's a pretty common one at funerals, but kinda interesting they used the same one.

[voiceover]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

 the guy playing Paul S (schizophrenic who killed Lucy)'s casework/psychologist. I don't know the actor's name but he played Craig Montgomery--a jerk character on As the World Turns in the 1980s.

Eeee!!  He was the spoiler for Betsy (Meg Ryan) & Steve (Frank Runyeon), my SuperCouple o' Choice in the 80s.  #lukenlaurawho

Did I miss someone besides the minister speaking at Mark's service?

[Bastet]

Elizabeth's reaction to Kerry bursting into tears is so her, and so me.  Love it.

[voiceover]

14 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

  It's a pretty common one at funerals, but kinda interesting they used the same one.

Probably because it's a pretty common one at funerals!  Like First Corinthians 13:13 ("...and the greatest of these is love.") is at weddings.

Edited November 2, 2017 by voiceover

[Liamsmom617]

23 hours ago, voiceover said:

Thanks @Liamsmom617! And thank sister of @Liamsmom617!! (@liamsaunt?) I love that we're having experts flown in ?.

Somebody posted Romano's all-time snark, pages ago, but I'd forgotten until he said it in this ep: "...and I expect them to be treated like his mother, but without the inappropriate touching!"

You’re so welcome!! (Loving “@liamsaunt617”!!)

[Liamsmom617]

Gotta add that (small voice) I actually like the “Secrets and Lies” episode, not least of all because Susan and Abby reference the movie “Fame” and the song “I Sing The Body Electric”...it’s the big closing performance of the movie...and one of the actors singing a solo right at the beginning is none other than Paul McCrane, AKA Robert Romano, back when he had a full head of curly red hair! Evidence (that’s him in the thumbnail pic!)

Edited November 2, 2017 by Liamsmom617

[voiceover]

Carter is my favorite.  From the pilot ep!  But one of the things this show bungled over the years was having a recovering addict, who was working the AA steps, try to control the actions of his recovering addict gf (who was also his original sponsor, and so was well aware of the "control" part of the program).

Judging Amy did a much better job of incorporating this sl accurately.  Especially the real risks of two addicts dating.

And I even liked them together!!

*rant over*

[Liamsmom617]

5 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Carter is my favorite.  From the pilot ep!  But one of the things this show bungled over the years was having a recovering addict, who was working the AA steps, try to control the actions of his recovering addict gf (who was also his original sponsor, and so was well aware of the "control" part of the program).

Judging Amy did a much better job of incorporating this sl accurately.  Especially the real risks of two addicts dating.

And I even liked them together!!

*rant over*

You’re right!! In fairness, I think Abby even said as much to Carter (how attempting to control another addict is not true to the program) in “The Letter”. 

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, voiceover said:

Carter is my favorite.  From the pilot ep!  But one of the things this show bungled over the years was having a recovering addict, who was working the AA steps, try to control the actions of his recovering addict gf (who was also his original sponsor, and so was well aware of the "control" part of the program).

Judging Amy did a much better job of incorporating this sl accurately.  Especially the real risks of two addicts dating.

And I even liked them together!!

*rant over*

What's particularly weird about it is that Abby is extremely controlling when it comes to her family.  If she's so adamant about not controlling other addicts, you'd think she would be able to apply some of that logic to her dealings with her mother and brother.  She's also shown a lot of controlling behavior with patients.  Of course, Carter only has the single relapse and tells her immediately, so she never really has to force her will upon him. Meanwhile, Carter was far less controlling with Chase although I suppose it could be the outcome in Chase' case that convinced him to try another tack with Abby.

As I watch these episodes now, maybe it's the fact the stories unfold so much more rapidly at the current pace they're airing or maybe it's because I already know how it all turns out; but perhaps TPTB were signaling from the start that Carter and Abby were together for all the wrong reasons and doomed from the start. That's the only way the two of them 13 stepping their way into bed makes any sense.  In retrospect and at this pace, it's also much more obvious that Luka was hung up on Abby and pining away for her from the time they broke up than I recall from the first time around.

Finally, for those who've been pining for more of Abby and her dysfunctional family; her brother shows up in today's second episode and Abby once again treats family like crap. And we get to see episode after episode of it all over again.  Some more.  These episodes also provide evidence of Maura Tierney's ill-advised foray into blonde highlights.  Really bad idea there, Maura.  

We also start to see the Glorification of Saint Abby getting into full swing.  A couple days ago, Carter tells one of the interns or students that Abby is 'Yoda' and full of wisdom and all the other interns/students should pay close attention to everything she says and does.  Today, her brother Eric proclaims that Abby is much smarter than everyone else in the ER and he doesn't understand why she stays at County.

Edited November 3, 2017 by doodlebug

[ktwo]

6 hours ago, Liamsmom617 said:

Gotta add that (small voice) I actually like the “Secrets and Lies” episode, not least of all because Susan and Abby reference the movie “Fame” and the song “I Sing The Body Electric”...it’s the big closing performance of the movie...and one of the actors singing a solo right at the beginning is none other than Paul McCrane, AKA Robert Romano, back when he had a full head of curly red hair! Evidence (that’s him in the thumbnail pic!)

 

I don’t mind the Secrets & Lies episode either, because I love Luka and he totally ends up coming off best of the five. I watched it today - woefully behind - and I still liked it. Removing the fencing scenes would have made it so much better - those I admit were cringeworthy.

[voiceover]

11 minutes ago, ktwo said:

Removing the fencing scenes would have made it so much better - those I admit were cringeworthy.

For real.  The last time I found that attractive, it was Ronald Colman versus Douglas Fairbanks Jr.  Because it was much more realistic to have the identical cousin of a King & a roguish nobleman going at it. 

Here? it was a dick-measuring slapfight between two men who should've known better.

[desertflower]

Just watched the one where Pratt revives the dad after he was pronounced dead, only he ends up brain dead and the mom signs a DNR. That kid playing his son totally broke my heart. Oh my gosh, he was a good little actor.  

[slf]

On 11/1/2017 at 11:48 PM, jjj said:

This site says that Salome Haertel, Alex Kingston's daughter, did play Ella for four episodes, including "On the Beach" -- I thought she was a delightful baby in "On the Beach", and this explains her rapport with Elizabeth:  http://www.tv.com/people/salome-haertel/ 

It was a good move hiring that kid because she was adorable.