All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[absnow54]

All the old TWoP recaps are hosted on brilliant but cancelled, so you don't have to worry about archiving glitches! http://www.brilliantbutcancelled.com/show/er/recaps/

[doodlebug]

9 hours ago, jjj said:

Yes, this is one of the seasons covered by TWoP recaps.  I swear they take as long to read as watching an episode, but are much more satisfying!  (See below for link.)

I am (as predicted) out of time for watching these seasons, but I saw the two episodes today about Elizabeth's patients dying from sepsis.  Did that ever get a resolution?  It seemed just to drift away after she accused a more senior male doctor (whose office she entered without permission) and he just scoffed at her, while Romano said "cut it out".  Is that the end of that sub-arc?  It certainly was a lot of screen time.

I have to say that if I were at Elizabeth's age with a first and only child of my own, no way would I leave my baby with a young teenager like Rachel -- even without all of Rachel's acting out, a young teenager who has never cared for babies should not be left alone with one for long periods of time.  Not fair to either child.  (I completely missed that Elizabeth had her baby!  Saw the wedding on Saturday, and then saw a baby this week!)

Here is a link to the TWoP recaps, which went from Season 6-11 -- even TWoP could not manage to snark at the final seasons of "ER".  Note:  Sometimes the TWoP archive disappears, and then comes back -- just be prepared for that possibility, and love it while it is there, because someday it will not be there:   http://web.archive.org/web/20140329210210/http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/er/ 

As I recall, Elizabeth's stint as Nancy Drew, girl detective ends when she enters Babcock's office and then, simply because he worked on all the infected cases, too and, on occasion, noted that perhaps operating on elderly, very sick people wasn't in their best interest; he must've decided to kill them.  Well, that and because he sometimes removed IV lines himself rather than ordering nurses to do it.  I think the whole thing gets dropped with no resolution.  Certainly there is no explanation why, if the culprit was Babcock, he only killed Elizabeth's patients or why he would deliberately kill them by injecting bacteria into their lines when, as an anesthesiologist, he had access to far more effective and faster working options.  The whole storyline was stupid and a waste of time, I guess it was to demonstrate how mentally unhinged Elizabeth was at the time.

Speaking of mentally unhinged, virtually no 13 year old should be expected to be primary caregiver for a young infant for hours at a time after school.  Particularly a kid like Rachel who has shown no sense of responsibility and seems immature for her age.  I was almost 16 when my youngest sister was born, and one of 6 kids with a ton of cousins who I helped care for as babies, and yet, my mother would've never expected me to provide after-school childcare on a regular basis.  Between the two of them, Elizabeth and Mark are making mid 6 figures at least; there is no reason they shouldn't have a full time nanny as well as a contingency sitter on retainer.  All the angsting about childcare when they are in the 1% economically rings false and makes them look cheap.

Don't even get me started on Kerry performing and emergency cesarean in an ambulance during a thunderstorm yesterday.  As an OB/GYN, I haven't calmed down since the original airing and I fast forwarded through it yesterday.  I guess after her appalling betrayal of not one but two residents to cover her own ass; TPTB felt she needed to look heroic.

[jjj]

Thank you for clarifying that there was no resolution to the "Nancy Drew and the Creeping Sepsis" plotline.  That was a ridiculous amount of time to spend on an arc that just ended without explanation.  Yes, if it were a medical professional, skulking around with syringes of bacteria would not make a lot of sense, given all the other options available.  And I again say "Amen" to Mark and Elizabeth not just hiring a nanny for their new baby in the after-school hours (presumably someone was looking after the baby during the day?) -- and based on what I have seen, Rachel could use some after-school supervision herself.  Of course, Rachel would completely disagree!   

And it was not just the ridiculous scene of Kerry doing the ambulance C-section that was idiotic -- but also having her *jump* into the electrical arcing with her *metal cane*!  Nope, not a lapse of judgment or the laws of physics at all.  And then the med student jumping *out* of the ambulance across the arcing with the new baby *into a puddle of water*.  Because sure, in ER world, water does not conduct electricity. 

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

As I recall, Elizabeth's stint as Nancy Drew, girl detective ends when she enters Babcock's office and then, simply because he worked on all the infected cases, too and, on occasion, noted that perhaps operating on elderly, very sick people wasn't in their best interest; he must've decided to kill them.  Well, that and because he sometimes removed IV lines himself rather than ordering nurses to do it.  I think the whole thing gets dropped with no resolution.  Certainly there is no explanation why, if the culprit was Babcock, he only killed Elizabeth's patients or why he would deliberately kill them by injecting bacteria into their lines when, as an anesthesiologist, he had access to far more effective and faster working options.  The whole storyline was stupid and a waste of time, I guess it was to demonstrate how mentally unhinged Elizabeth was at the time.

Speaking of mentally unhinged, virtually no 13 year old should be expected to be primary caregiver for a young infant for hours at a time after school.  Particularly a kid like Rachel who has shown no sense of responsibility and seems immature for her age.  [snip] Between the two of them, Elizabeth and Mark are making mid 6 figures at least; there is no reason they shouldn't have a full time nanny as well as a contingency sitter on retainer.  All the angsting about childcare when they are in the 1% economically rings false and makes them look cheap..

[desertflower]

I know we are supposed to root for Peter but I feel bad for Roger. He attempted to work out a schedule and prevent a trial but Peter wasn't having any of it. He wouldn't have sued for custody if Peter had been reasonable and not told him to stay away from him and Reese. Roger lived with the kid every day (when he wasn't with Peter), of course he would have a hard time just walking away from him and never contacting him again. I mean I still think Peter should have primary custody but I feel for Roger too. 

I liked Gallant, he was sweet. 

[Bastet]

Oh, I'm not rooting for Peter!  Roger has every bit as much of a connection to Reese as Peter does, and, more importantly, Reese has just as much of a connection to Roger as he does to Peter.  Neither one is his biological father, and while Roger came into his life later than Peter did, a) Reese was quite young when he did, so he doesn't remember the time before him, and b) Roger's house was Reese's primary residence.  Peter was unequivocally wrong in refusing to work with Roger on a visitation schedule, and when you won't act like a reasonable person and make your decisions in the best interests of the child, family court will do it for you.

[kathy42977]

I want a Reese Benton of my very own.

What a treasure that little boy is.

[PepSinger]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Speaking of mentally unhinged, virtually no 13 year old should be expected to be primary caregiver for a young infant for hours at a time after school.  Particularly a kid like Rachel who has shown no sense of responsibility and seems immature for her age.  I was almost 16 when my youngest sister was born, and one of 6 kids with a ton of cousins who I helped care for as babies, and yet, my mother would've never expected me to provide after-school childcare on a regular basis.  Between the two of them, Elizabeth and Mark are making mid 6 figures at least; there is no reason they shouldn't have a full time nanny as well as a contingency sitter on retainer.  All the angsting about childcare when they are in the 1% economically rings false and makes them look cheap.

 

Grey's Anatomy also had -- and still has -- this issue with Derek and Meredith. You're telling me the chief of neurosurgery and the chief of general surgery cannot afford a full time nanny and baby sitter? What in the actual fuck. I know that Elizabeth and Mark work at a county hospital instead of a well-regarded, nationally recognized teaching hospital, but it's still ludicrous. 

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Don't even get me started on Kerry performing and emergency cesarean in an ambulance during a thunderstorm yesterday.  As an OB/GYN, I haven't calmed down since the original airing and I fast forwarded through it yesterday.  I guess after her appalling betrayal of not one but two residents to cover her own ass; TPTB felt she needed to look heroic.

Heh, I could ask my dad (he's an OB/GYN as well), but I'm curious as to why it's so infuriating. Was she supposed to let both the mother and baby die?

[Bastet]

Carter and Benton had my favorite relationship of the show, and their good-bye is pitch perfect.  For Carter to get him something sentimental, and get emotional saying good-bye, and for Peter to tell him the El doesn't use tokens anymore but ultimately hug back - and then jog off with a sarcastic remark and a smile.  All wonderfully in character.

[PepSinger]

The Carter/Benton goodbye makes my heart smile. It's just so sweet, well done, and without any over the top histrionics. 

 

Also: Noah Wyle's acting when he hears Paul's voice and during the entire scene to his vomiting is excellent. You can see all of his emotions. Also, replaying the song was a nice touch.

Edited October 26, 2017 by PepSinger

[Bastet]

Great touch playing the music from the stabbing episode as Carter walks away from encountering the patient who stabbed him.  That's a nicely-done story all around, with Abby trying to get the guy shoved out the door, Susan - who wasn't there, yet does care about Carter - refusing to transfer him until she makes sure he's stable for transport, Paul wanting to get the hell out of County and being genuinely sorry for Carter to have come across him, and, of course, Carter reacting to learning he's out on conditional release. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, kathy42977 said:

I want a Reese Benton of my very own.

What a treasure that little boy is.

Which made it extra cool to see how he'd grown - since the original young actor returned along with Benton for the Carter Foundation thingie in S15.

[Automne]

Paul's wife was incredibly annoying. You can talk about how your husband is medicated and all better and is honestly a good person until you're blue in the face, but it will never negate the fact that your husband murdered somebody. You really think somebody who was stabbed by your husband is going to want a letter? A condition of his conditional release should have been 1.) his representative notifying Carter and Lucy's family that he is going to be released and 2.) giving Carter and Lucy's family the opportunity to sit with the panel and confront Paul in a controlled and safe setting  because Paul (and his wife) need to face what he did instead of essentially brushing it off "That wasn't me who did that, you know that, right?".

And they had a baby? Good job, potentially pass on a serious mental illness. Never mind the fact that this child will eventually find out that her father murdered somebody or that her dad could be in and out mental hospitals. 

[jjj]

2 hours ago, Automne said:

Paul's wife was incredibly annoying.

And they had a baby? Good job, potentially pass on a serious mental illness. Never mind the fact that this child will eventually find out that her father murdered somebody or that her dad could be in and out mental hospitals. 

Well, she was already well along in her pregnancy when the stabbings occurred.  She knew he was stressed, but not how serious it was. 

I completely agree that Carter (and Lucy's family) should have known he was on conditional release. 

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Grey's Anatomy also had -- and still has -- this issue with Derek and Meredith. You're telling me the chief of neurosurgery and the chief of general surgery cannot afford a full time nanny and baby sitter? What in the actual fuck. I know that Elizabeth and Mark work at a county hospital instead of a well-regarded, nationally recognized teaching hospital, but it's still ludicrous. 

Heh, I could ask my dad (he's an OB/GYN as well), but I'm curious as to why it's so infuriating. Was she supposed to let both the mother and baby die?

First, Kerry is an ER doc, not an OB.  She probably hasn't seen a cesarean section in a decade or more, let alone performed one.  For her to expect to perform one safely in the back of an ambulance in a torrential downpour is unbelievable.  Second, Kerry is not an anesthesiologist; she has probably never given anyone a spinal anesthetic ever; let alone in the back of an ambulance in the midst of a monsoon.  How did she happen to find a spinal needle, why would one be in their emergency kit?  How would she know the dose of anesthetic to give?  Why would there be a vial of anesthetic suitable for a spinal in her kit?  Finally, there are known complications to giving a spinal.  First, it can creep too high and paralyze the muscles for breathing which is why it isn't done without plenty of equipment and personnel there in case the patient has to be ventilated for an hour or two.  A med student who clearly hasn't seen much of anything is not a capable assistant.  Then, spinal anesthesia can decrease the blood pressure significantly especially in a patient whose blood volume is already depleted which is why no anesthesiologist would ever consider giving it to a patient who was actively hemorrhaging and needing blood.  The moment Kerry gave it, the lady's blood pressure would've dropped like a stone and Kerry couldn't possibly have the multiple large IV lines, blood, IV fluids and the medications (ephedrine would not be in her drug box, either) needed to keep her BP stable.  Giving a spinal to a patient who is already shocky is practically asking for her to code and die right then and there.  Finally, the patient was hemorrhaging because she had a placental abruption which happens when the placenta separates from the uterine wall before delivery.  The physiologic process eats up the clotting factors and can lead to DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulation) which leads to an inability of the blood to clot. leading to massive hemorrhage.   Therefore, performing major surgery without the ability to give clotting agents like fresh frozen plasma, platelets and cryoprecipitate is a very bad idea.  If she goes into DIC, she's dead in a couple minutes.  There is also the fact that, even if Kerry somehow prevents her from bleeding to death, she has very stupidly given her a spinal anesthetic.  Poking a hole into the dura over the spine in a patient who then goes into DIC is going to lead to a hemorrhage in the spinal column which will result in paralysis, probably permanent; if it doesn't kill her outright.

In other words, performing an emergency cesarean in the back of the ambulance was far more likely to kill both mother and baby than keeping her as stable as possible and transporting her when feasible.  Kerry did several things that would actually destabilize the patient and increase the risk that either she or her baby or both would suffer serious consequences or even die.  I've been doing cesareans for more than 35 years, have literally performed more than a thousand of them and I would surely think twice before doing one in those conditions.  The fact that Kerry didn't seem to even be aware of the potential downside of her actions is all the more reason she shouldn't have done it.

Edited October 27, 2017 by doodlebug

[absnow54]

What an awful way to write out Peter, he came off so terribly. I get that it was supposed to be a revelation that the overly ambitious surgeon chose his kid over his career, but Roger was being completely reasonable with him and Peter selfishly screwed him over. I thought they were a little heavy handed with making Roger super dad. His relationship with Carla was on the rocks at the end of the previous season, so the perfect family home life he was presenting seemed a bit far fetched. And you would think that Peter having a large family support system would be a good thing, what if something happened to Roger? Couldn't they have cast a few background extras to play Roger's support system? What about Carla, did she not have any family who would care about Reece?

I think the better send off for Peter would be for him to swallow his pride and agree to Roger's terms outside of the court instead of perjuring himself and then covering his ass, and then winning in the end.

I'll miss Carter and Benton's friendship until season 15.

[doodlebug]

I agree, Peter looked petulant and selfish in his departure storyline. Roger clearly loved Reese and vice versa; he didn't need to go to court to know that.  Since Carla's death, Peter obviously had full custody and more opportunity to spend time with his son than ever before, yet, he continued to work ungodly hours and, like Mark and Elizabeth, never worked out appropriate childcare for him.  Meanwhile, except for verbal sparring with Jackie who was obviously having issues of her own, Roger was never anything but helpful.  It would've been so much better if Peter had simply realized on his own that, as much as he loved surgery, he loved his son more and decided to make a change for that reason rather than being forced into it by a custody suit.

[Zoe]

Spotted a Keegan-Michael Key with hair as Liz Cruz's assistant. Benton told him that's the whitest tie he's ever seen, lol

[jjj]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

In other words, performing an emergency cesarean in the back of the ambulance was far more likely to kill both mother and baby than keeping her as stable as possible and transporting her when feasible.  Kerry did several things that would actually destabilize the patient and increase the risk that either she or her baby or both would suffer serious consequences or even die.  I've been doing cesareans for more than 35 years, have literally performed more than a thousand of them and I would surely think twice before doing one in those conditions.  The fact that Kerry didn't seem to even be aware of the potential downside of her actions is all the more reason she shouldn't have done it.

Thanks so much!  I know this "is just a television show," but I appreciate all these details -- and another example of the desperation of the later ER seasons as they progress. 

[desertflower]

9 hours ago, Zoe said:

Spotted a Keegan-Michael Key with hair as Liz Cruz's assistant. Benton told him that's the whitest tie he's ever seen, lol

I thought that was him! That was a cute scene.

[desertflower]

You know I enjoy Abby when her misery isn't the focal point. There were a couple episodes there where she wasn't front and center and I liked her a lot when she did appear. She was helpful to Luka regarding the Nicole situation without rubbing it in his face. She had a few nice exchanges with Mark. The firefighter asking her out was cute. 

Michael Gross was such a great casting choice for Carter's dad. 

Agreed, Peter was a jerk not taking Roger's offer for visitation. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by desertflower

[doodlebug]

38 minutes ago, desertflower said:

You know I enjoy Abby when her misery isn't the focal point. There were a couple episodes there where she wasn't front and center and I liked her a lot when she did appear. She was helpful to Luka regarding the Nicole situation without rubbing it in his face. She had a few nice exchanges with Mark. The firefighter asking her out was cute. 

Michael Gross was such a great casting choice for Carter's dad. 

Agreed, Peter was a jerk not taking Roger's offer for visitation. 

Well, Abby was helpful to Luka in the Nicole situation right up to the point where she goaded Nicole into having an abortion and leaving town.  It really wasn't any of her business.  If Nicole was taking advantage of him, well, he's a grownup and that's his choice.  Had Luka interfered in any of her relationships like that, she would've gone ballistic on him.  Not that it wasn't probably for the best, but Abby should not have interjected herself into it.  I don't know what she should've done after finding out about the abortion, but I am sure she never told Luka ever, even years later when they were together and it seems like a pretty major secret to keep from your husband.  Then again, she never told Richard about her abortion (and apparently never bothered to find out how he felt about having kids despite being married to him).

One thing the episode did show is what a poor judge of character Abby can be.  She is absolutely certain that Richard's new fiancé is a much younger chick with money.  Turns out she's a school teacher, about his age and has a child from a previous marriage who Richard really loves.  Makes me wonder why exactly she married this guy when she has no idea who he is or what he wants.  Also puts the failure of that marriage into a different context.

Edited October 27, 2017 by doodlebug

[absnow54]

You know I enjoy Abby when her misery isn't the focal point. There were a couple episodes there where she wasn't front and center and I liked her a lot when she did appear. She was helpful to Luka regarding the Nicole situation without rubbing it in his face. She had a few nice exchanges with Mark. The firefighter asking her out was cute.

I'll probably eat my hat for this in a few weeks, but Abby is one of the few bright spots of Season 8 so far. I think it's because her existence has been drama free for the most part, and she survived the ridiculous Luka/Nicole storyline with dignity. I'm so glad we're done with that Nicole plot. How they managed to make Julie Delpy so unlikeable is beyond me. And the fact that Luka was barely a featured character in the arc made his motivation really hard to follow.

[doodlebug]

Just now, absnow54 said:

I'll probably eat my hat for this in a few weeks, but Abby is one of the few bright spots of Season 8 so far. I think it's because her existence has been drama free for the most part, and she survived the ridiculous Luka/Nicole storyline with dignity. I'm so glad we're done with that Nicole plot. How they managed to make Julie Delpy so unlikeable is beyond me. And the fact that Luka was barely a featured character in the arc made his motivation really hard to follow.

And this is part of what bothers me about Abby; it seems like she ends up being the focus of storylines that rightfully belong to other characters.  We don't get to find out how Luka really feels about Nicole and her dishonesty, how he reacted to the unplanned pregnancy; his feelings about having another child at this point.  All of that would've been far more interesting to me than watching Abby stick her nose into someone else's private life.  Again. Some more.  As you continue to watch this season and the next, you will see a trend: virtually every storyline must be filtered through Abby; nothing we see is important or meaningful until we know how Abby feels about it.

[desertflower]

8 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Well, Abby was helpful to Luka in the Nicole situation right up to the point where she goaded Nicole into having an abortion and leaving town.  It really wasn't any of her business.  If Nicole was taking advantage of him, well, he's a grownup and that's his choice.  Had Luka interfered in any of her relationships like that, she would've gone ballistic on him.  Not that it wasn't probably for the best, but Abby should not have interjected herself into it.  I don't know what she should've done after finding out about the abortion, but I am sure she never told Luka ever, even years later when they were together.

Well to be honest I posted my comment before watching the episode that revealed Nicole actually was pregnant. I had forgotten that and thought it ended with her just leaving town. Oops!  But I did enjoy Abby's appearances in these eps overall. 

[absnow54]

Well, Abby was helpful to Luka in the Nicole situation right up to the point where she goaded Nicole into having an abortion and leaving town. It really wasn't any of her business.

Yeah, Abby was out of line in that scene (and also when planting the seed in Luka's head that Nicole wasn't really pregnant), but I never felt like she was goading Nicole into an abortion. Abby was convinced she was faking it, and I don't think the show presented her as a hero when Nicole called her bluff.

[doodlebug]

10 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Yeah, Abby was out of line in that scene (and also when planting the seed in Luka's head that Nicole wasn't really pregnant), but I never felt like she was goading Nicole into an abortion. Abby was convinced she was faking it, and I don't think the show presented her as a hero when Nicole called her bluff.

I don't think they presented her as a hero, I just think her participation in the storyline was unnecessary and ended up derailing what could've been a more interesting story.  The story should've been about Nicole and Luka and how gullible he was, how desperate for family and connection, not about how Abby misjudged Nicole's pregnancy claims and confronted her.  It's great that Nicole realized that she couldn't be with Luka if he didn't love her and didn't know who she really was; I just don't think we needed Abby to point that out.  Alas, she ends up doing this in story after story, character after character.  It becomes 'The World According to Abby' instead of an ensemble show.

[desertflower]

I do think Abby had a place in that Luka/Nicole plot though, it was to show she was trying to look out for Luka and to plant a seed with the audience that maybe she still cares about him. It also provided a reason for Carter to put the brakes on taking their relationship to the next level, (he was concerned she was still too preoccupied with Luka) and freed him up for the Susan relationship, even though that didn't last long.

I do agree though that later plotlines did filter through Abby too much, especially Gamma's death and funeral. As someone noted already, that deserved respect and should've focused on just Carter and not brought her and her family drama into it.

[absnow54]

I don't think they presented her as a hero, I just think her participation in the storyline was unnecessary and ended up derailing what could've been a more interesting story.

I definitely agree with you here. I thought Abby had a place in the storyline since she'd just broken up with Luka, but the story should have been from Luka's POV. I still don't think Abby necessarily ate the storyline though, it was just thin and poorly developed, and Abby was the only character that got a sufficient POV, even though she was only a supporting character during that run of episodes. To me it was a C-plot that should have been an A-plot to flesh out everyone involved and make a compelling story.

[Gigi43]

Abby wanting Paul the F--- out of the hospital might be the only time I've cheered her. I know Susan wasn't there, and I wish someone else that was there that night could have been involved instead of Abby (though it may have been too hard to see someone like Kerry see him again.) I didn't believe back then and I don't believe it now though that Carter wouldn't have been notified of his release. He should have had the option of a restraining order or something upon release too, no? Still, Noah acted the hell out of the episode.

 

Of course I had to watch Benton's goodbye ep. I didn't like his treatment of Roger throughout though. I don't mind Jackie's treatment of Roger, she was grieving her own son and Peter, though it was completely in character for him, didn't connect enough watching his little boy was really hard for her. Khandi Alexander was wonderful just looking completely shattered in one of the previous episodes listening to Peter's message asking about Reese. The "We had our moments" and wink to Elizabeth... ugh, why couldn't Eriq insist on showing a positive co-parenting relationship with Carla instead of making her every terrible stereotype and let Peter and Elizabeth be together instead (I'm actually mostly kidding because if they had stayed together on screen, as opposed to the happy write-outs some got, they'd probably be miserable like Mark and Elizabeth.) I don't care if it makes me lame, I remembered everything about the Benton/Carter scene so clearly, especially the parting exchange. Can they just skip to their reunion in season 15?

[desertflower]

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

I don't care if it makes me lame, I remembered everything about the Benton/Carter scene so clearly, especially the parting exchange.

Carter breaks my heart there. "Then call me, and I'll come pick you up." So sweet. 

[voiceover]

Guest Star Bingo, Big Time!!  Joan from Mad Men and Capt Speirs from Band of Brothers as the domestic abuse couple.  Christina Hendricks & Matthew Settle = now I'd totally ship their MM/BoB characters as crossover pron.

*sigh*. Just doesn't feel like ER without Benton's little "Hi-YA!" move in the credits.

Edited October 27, 2017 by voiceover

[Bastet]

I'm glad Chen came back, but she has some nerve acting like she didn't screw up, too.

[voiceover]

IIRC, the way Carter spoke of it in Season 1 (to the sullen kid who had cancer), his brother was older, but still a child when he died.

But now it appears he was old enough to be in Europe on his own when it happened (or at least, when it got worse)?  

Retcon, or did I miss something from Season 1?

19 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I'm glad Chen came back, but she has some nerve acting like she didn't screw up, too.

No shit!  Feels like they're over-correcting to make the audience sympathetic to Kerry.

[Bastet]

40 minutes ago, voiceover said:

But now it appears he was old enough to be in Europe on his own when it happened (or at least, when it got worse)?

When was he on his own?  He was feeling tired, but Millicent said he just needed some fresh air after being cooped up all winter, they all went to France on vacation, and thus he wasn't diagnosed until they got back.  So Eleanor felt guilty about not getting him checked out before they left (but Carter said it only delayed diagnosis for a month, and wouldn't have made any difference in the outcome).

I love that Corday looks wretched, rather than having the usual glamorous TV flu.

In a show sort on subtlety lately, I'm impressed the storyline in which Mark counsels a dad against yelling at one kid for endangering the other and the one in which he yells at Rachel for endangering Ella happened in two different episodes.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Bastet

[voiceover]

38 minutes ago, Bastet said:

When was he on his own?  He was feeling tired, but Millicent said he just needed some fresh air after being cooped up all winter, they all went to France on vacation, and thus he wasn't diagnosed until they got back.  

 

Aha.  It's why I asked.  Missed the part where that was mentioned, didn't know his grandmother took him, just caught the "going to Europe" thing, and jumped to the conclusion.

Thread medicos: Why don't they have to gown & mask up for entrance to the PICU?  

Edited October 27, 2017 by voiceover

[PepSinger]

19 hours ago, doodlebug said:

In other words, performing an emergency cesarean in the back of the ambulance was far more likely to kill both mother and baby than keeping her as stable as possible and transporting her when feasible.  Kerry did several things that would actually destabilize the patient and increase the risk that either she or her baby or both would suffer serious consequences or even die.  I've been doing cesareans for more than 35 years, have literally performed more than a thousand of them and I would surely think twice before doing one in those conditions.  The fact that Kerry didn't seem to even be aware of the potential downside of her actions is all the more reason she shouldn't have done it.

Thank you for the explanation! I guess I naively took Kerry at her word that the situation was so desperate she just had to the C-section there. Not to mention that the woman had to have hysterectomy! If I found out that it didn't need to happen, I'd be suing like crazy.

Ah, "A Simple Twist of Fate." I have to hand it to the make-up department, Elizabeth truly looks like shit. I know it wasn't supposed to be funny, but I laughed when Elizabeth asked if Mark had called the police. Sure, Elizabeth. Mark called the police on his own daughter. Even though I don't agree with Elizabeth kicking Rachel out without discussing it with Mark, I 100% agreed with her that if Mark'd had a firmer hand, the drugs wouldn't have been in the house in the first place. He was way too easy on her. I can see why she just told Rachel to get the hell out.

Edited October 27, 2017 by PepSinger

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, voiceover said:

Aha.  It's why I asked.  Missed the part where that was mentioned, didn't know his grandmother took him, just caught the "going to Europe" thing, and jumped to the conclusion.

Thread medicos: Why don't they have to gown & mask up for entrance to the PICU?  

Because all that is required is that everyone wash their hands before entering.  They would only have to gown and mask if they were entering the room of a kid with something contagious.  Now, there is the fact that Elizabeth has the flu herself and shouldn't be exposing her baby or anyone else to the virus.  In real life, they ask people who are clearly sick not to visit at all.  In the case of a child who is critically ill and whose parent is sick, yes, a gown and mask and maybe even gloves would be appropriate.  However, just as the show has docs scrubbing up for surgery without wearing masks, I suspect they take a little dramatic license to be sure the dialogue is clear and we can see the actors' facial expressions.

[voiceover]

28 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Because all that is required is that everyone wash their hands before entering [...] Now, there is the fact that Elizabeth has the flu herself and shouldn't be exposing her baby or anyone else to the virus.  

Thanks!  Makes sense.

And you also addressed the other thing that bugged -- there's sick-as-a-dog Elizabeth, unmasked & ungloved.  I guess they tried to cover that by giving her a gastro issue, so there wouldn't be sneezing or dripping.

I forgot that Kerry ate a bagel!!  Good times.

[Bastet]

I liked the closure Abby finally got from her mom's visit, such that I'd overlook the all-Maggie-all-the-time focus as it played out to conclude it was flawed but worthwhile storytelling and move on.  Except they're going to pick it up again.  Contrast with Carter, who also got some closure with his mom, in a similarly high profile guest appearance that, this time, didn't eat the show, and was wonderful to watch - for what it gave "our" character and for what it taught us about the parent we'd heard about through the character's narrative but not met until now.

I don't remember: When Gamma dies, do they give a reason Eleanor isn't at the funeral?  I don't have an issue with Eleanor cutting all ties with that family other than her son, and thus skipping the funeral but spending time with Carter as he grieves, so I can fanwank it as a "they couldn't get Mary McDonnell for this, but the John/Eleanor progress we saw resulted in an off-screen visit."  I'm just curious whether they leave it open for that or make a point of her not being there.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Bastet

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't remember: When Gamma dies, do they give a reason Eleanor isn't at the funeral?  I don't have an issue with Eleanor cutting all ties with that family other than her son, and thus skipping the funeral but spending time with Carter as he grieves, so I can fanwank it as a "they couldn't get Mary McDonnell for this, but the John/Eleanor progress we saw resulted in an off-screen visit."  I'm just curious whether they leave it open for that or make a point of her not being there.

I don't think we got any information about Carter's mother when Gamma died, but his parents were divorced and his mother didn't get along with Gamma anyway, so I don't think her absence was all that surprising.  And, as I've said before, Gama's death is made to be All About Abby and most of what we get is filtered through her.  At least, Abby's inability to provide any comfort to Carter while turning his grandmother's funeral into a circus made him realize just how toxic the relationship was and got him to finally cut her loose.  Too bad  she moved on to Luka who didn't seem to care that she would never put him first.

Interesting, isn't it, that a character like Carter, on the show 8 seasons, had such a compact story with his parents while Abby, there less than 2 seasons,  got episode after episode, scene after scene with her family.  I guess TPTB thought that giving her so much time onscreen would endear her to the audience and make us forget she wasn't there from the start.  It had the opposite effect ion me.

[slf]

Random but: I like that Kerry took the scruffy mutt home with her after he adorably raised his paw for a shake.

[walnutqueen]

48 minutes ago, slf said:

Random but: I like that Kerry took the scruffy mutt home with her after he adorably raised his paw for a shake.

Did we ever see Kerry with her dog again?  Because that might have humanized her just a little ... and provided some plot continuity.

Like Mark/Rachel's mutt from so long ago ...

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I don't think we got any information about Carter's mother when Gamma died, but his parents were divorced and his mother didn't get along with Gamma anyway, so I don't think her absence was all that surprising.

Oh, in her shoes, I wouldn't go unless John asked me to -- the only reason she'd be there would be to support him -- and I don't think he'd ask her to put herself through the exercise; I think he'd be happy to just have her check in on him separately.  I just wondered whether Carter or his dad made any reference to her not being there, hoping the answer is no -- I wouldn't want it made into a thing, given the great final scene we saw between Carter and her. 

Quote

Interesting, isn't it, that a character like Carter, on the show 8 seasons, had such a compact story with his parents while Abby, there less than 2 seasons,  got episode after episode, scene after scene with her family.

The difference between the two is striking, and I think the way they did it with Carter's family is a lot better and more appropriate to the show.  I like Abby, but that run of episodes with her mom got pretty hard to slog through; I'm not looking forward to more.

[slasherboy]

At the beginning of "Rampage" Mark stops at an outdoor newsstand to buy a paper.  In the top left corner is an issue of "George" magazine with JFK, Jr. on the cover.  Wasn't that the very first issue?

That's a sad sign of the times.

[voiceover]

3 hours ago, slasherboy said:

At the beginning of "Rampage" Mark stops at an outdoor newsstand to buy a paper.  In the top left corner is an issue of "George" magazine with JFK, Jr. on the cover.  Wasn't that the very first issue?

IIRC, first cover was Cindy Crawford dressed as George Washington.  That was going to be a "thing".

I accidentally sat through Peter telling Reese about Carla, again,  with predictable results.  

In the Top 10 Make You Weep Moments for this show, that's definitely pride of place. 

The coda of that series of scenes, with Roger telling Reese, " I love you too!" really makes Peter's subsequent actions a head-scratcher.  Drama for drama's sake.

[slasherboy]

voiceover, you're correct about Cindy Crawford being on the first issue of "George".  I'd rather look at JFK, Jr. if given my druthers.

[justduckey]

Finally caught up on this week’s episodes.

I remember not liking when the switched Rachel’s back then (no offense to Halle’s Hirsh who I actually like as an actress) and didn’t like it anymore this time around. It lost something for me that it wasn’t Vanessa Zima who we watched grow up and have a bond with Greene with.  It didn’t feel like his daughter a lot of the time to me. Granted Vanessa’s acting abilities were not as hones as Hallee’s but it all fell flat for me bc they switched actresses.  I wasn’t buying it. I would just try to picture Vanessa’s Rachel doing these things and I just couldn’t (not bc she was a saint bc we all know she was a pain in the ass).

Speaking of which, the switching of Rogers also threw me out of the story a bit. No, we didn’t see much of the original roger but the bond got lost for me between  new Roger and Reese. This one was probably unavoidable bc of the actors availability but still.

 

Now Abby. I remember being annoyed by her back then and it’s all coming back to me. She is just everywhere in everything. Why?  I’ve got to brace myself for the seasons to come.

Also, I miss the nurses. Lydia, Haleh, Malik, etc. Why are they hardly shown now?  I feel like they would have helped ground the show as the original actors left.

 

Nice to see Jerry back though!

Mark having symptoms again. Back in 2002 I was unaware Anthony Edwards was leaving so it was obviously more shocking to watch then than now but it’s still so sad.  The rest of season 8 will be hard to watch in that sense.  I don’t remember specifics so it’ll be like watching it for the first time again.

Now that Benton is gone and Greene will be gone in a few episodes, I’m mostly going to be waiting for the last season and the returns of the originals bc other than the Clooney episode I didn’t see the other cast returns.

 

I wish they’d cycle back to season 1 during one of the rotations.

Edited October 30, 2017 by justduckey

[WendyCR72]

30 minutes ago, justduckey said:

I remember not liking when the switched Rachel’s back then (no offense to Halle’s Hirsh who I actually like as an actress) and didn’t like it anymore this time around. It lost something for me that it wasn’t Vanessa Zima

Just because I'm that annoying poster ( :-) ), the actress' name was Yvonne Zima. (Her sister, Madelyn, was on The Nanny, too.)

[justduckey]

12 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just because I'm that annoying poster ( :-) ), the actress' name was Yvonne Zima. (Her sister, Madelyn, was on The Nanny, too.)

Yes, you’re right. Vanessa is the other Zima sister.

[jjj]

A reminder that Monday evenings the older seasons are still cycling through:  end of Season 5 tonight (Monday), where Carol is pregnant and Elizabeth is charming.  Elizabeth was such a delightful character in her first couple of years, laughing and socializing and looking for fun with men.  Such a shame, what they do to her character in the later seasons.

I could not believe they had Greene continue to work on the mass shooter after they realized he was hunting for Greene's house. 

And Rachel is coming across as quite the sociopath in training -- her arrival and claims of mistreatment by Jenn ring very hollow after we have seen how Rachel manipulates the truth about her friends and drugs.  I also was appalled that they were not addressing the fact that Rachel was planning to take ecstacy at a party -- yes, the baby overdose was the immediate concern, but Rachel was way out of line for a fourteen-year-old.  And her excuse to Elizabeth in the PICU was "I was only going to take *one*".  She really manipulated Mark into a "there, there" hug near the end.  I have not seen their final episodes, but the writers are not setting up Rachel for authentic emotions -- just calculated behavior.