All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Cloud9Shopper]

Luka was almost kind of creepy around Carol at times. It showed that all he cared about was being married and having a baby again, and he didn’t seem to care who it was with, considering he eventually knocks up Crabby Abby, the worst main character parent on the show. 

[Dr.OO7]

As much as I hated her by then, I loved the moment when Kerry confronted Dave after finding out that he'd been asking everyone why she uses a cane, acting all cheerful and casual as if it's no big deal, until the moment she very pointedly declares "No, it's NOT." (any of his business)

Quite remarkable considering that she probably had to deal with years of intrusive questions about it and has learned to handle it with grace.

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Luka was almost kind of creepy around Carol at times.

Was he ever not creepy around her?  From jump, he's obsessed with her fetuses and his interest in her is purely as the vessel gestating them.

[outsmartabullet]

Re: "Freefall"

every time I see 'That Scene' I'm always confused as to how Romano can tell that Morris is smoking weed and not just smoking a cigarette, which presumably is allowed in the ambulance bay.

[Bastet]

12 minutes ago, outsmartabullet said:

every time I see 'That Scene' I'm always confused as to how Romano can tell that Morris is smoking weed and not just smoking a cigarette, which presumably is allowed in the ambulance bay.

I haven't seen it in years, so don't remember how far away from each other they are -- is Romano close enough he could smell it?

[outsmartabullet]

43 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I haven't seen it in years, so don't remember how far away from each other they are -- is Romano close enough he could smell it?

Nah he's a good distance away! 

[Heathen]

I'm still cruising through season 3. Al and Jeanie reuniting is a mystery I've never understood. Al cheated on Jeanie, gave her a potentially deadly virus -- one that was deadly for him -- and by Jeanie's own account, they "barely had a marriage these last few years."  But she goes back to him anyway. 

[txhorns79]

15 hours ago, Heathen said:

I'm still cruising through season 3. Al and Jeanie reuniting is a mystery I've never understood. Al cheated on Jeanie, gave her a potentially deadly virus -- one that was deadly for him -- and by Jeanie's own account, they "barely had a marriage these last few years."  But she goes back to him anyway. 

The best I could think of was that having HIV left her feeling isolated, and while Al was not an ideal choice, she didn't have to keep secrets with him and he could understand what she going through.  

[Heathen]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

The best I could think of was that having HIV left her feeling isolated, and while Al was not an ideal choice, she didn't have to keep secrets with him and he could understand what she going through.  

I thought of that as well. I just hate seeing her go back to the person who put her in that place to start with. I liked her with Greg Fisher, although he was pushy. 

[txhorns79]

One of the things I hate most in Season 6 is Luka playing God and acting as though he is worthy of determining which patients are allowed care.  I can't believe he actually tells Corday he would rather no one get a kidney than have it go to the patient he deemed unacceptable due to drug use.  And leaving a school shooter to essentially bleed out in ambulance because his less critical patient was a child.  I can understand not wanting to help people you see as morally repugnant, but when you actually go through with that, you probably should not work in an ER.  

On the positive side, I really do like Chen and Carter's friend chemistry.  I like that she is the only one who calls him "John."  It's sweet.  I also thought John Cullum did a great arc where he gets to sing, and he had a beautiful last scene with Mark.   

[Olis93]

Luka bugs me a lot during the series. I initially liked his character in Season 6 when he was just a fresh face and generally more likeable. He went downhill fast after the mugger incident and became such a dark, self righteous and unpleasant character who never really faced any consequences for his behavior a lot of the time. 

It seems like they just didn't know what to do with him unless it had something to do with Abby.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, Olis93 said:

Luka bugs me a lot during the series. I initially liked his character in Season 6 when he was just a fresh face and generally more likeable. He went downhill fast after the mugger incident and became such a dark, self righteous and unpleasant character who never really faced any consequences for his behavior a lot of the time. 

It seems like they just didn't know what to do with him unless it had something to do with Abby.

I agree with all of this. And his penchant for violence and overstepping his bounds really bugs me. It’s held up as heroic and doing it for Abby because he loves her, but IDK it always comes off as kind of scary and his inability to control himself rather than something satisfying. I know other characters overstep and get righteous too, but not many punch people repeatedly. 

[GiandujaPie]

Just watched the 2 episodes in Season 14 before the writers strike, with the horrible hockey storyline. So we are to believe that suddenly all of the surgeons are really good at hockey and ice skating. And we are to believe that Neela's field hockey experience translates into ice hockey prowess? BS. This has to take the cake as the most ridiculous and unnecessary storyline ever. You can totally see how this show has gone downhill. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I know this will be unpopular but I actually kind of got a laugh out of the hockey game because S14 had been so depressing and miserable so it was nice to have some campy ridiculousness in there. And I used to ice skate and knew some rec hockey players, so I found all the tough talk and arrogance to be really accurate. My friend who used to officiate often ran into adult hockey players who wanted to keep living their glory days and talked a huge game on the ice.

The brawl in the ER, though, was probably not realistic and felt too over the top. 

 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/14/2023 at 12:30 AM, txhorns79 said:

Also, when Carter gives Malucci trouble for attending a medical school in Grenada, I kept thinking: "He matched to the same residency program you are in.  What does that say about you?"    

That was definitely one of those annoying things where the teaching hospital part of County General was simultaneously a prestigious top tier program while at the same time a terrible program that was stuck taking people like Morris and Malucci and Chen when she came back.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That was definitely one of those annoying things where the teaching hospital part of County General was simultaneously a prestigious top while at the same time a terrible program that was stuck taking people like Morris and Malucci and Chen when she came back.

And the same program that made Morris the chief resident (because apparently no one else anywhere wanted the job) when in earlier years, the search for such was actually taken seriously and was a desirable position. I’d say even giving it to Chen was questionable but not as much as Morris getting it in S11.

 

[txhorns79]

22 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

The brawl in the ER, though, was probably not realistic and felt too over the top. 

Think about the brawl they had in Season 7 when the one high school football player died from his injuries, and the two rival teams had a throwdown, with everyone, including the cheerleaders, attacking one another, in the ER.  It was completely absurd. 

Also, speaking of Season 7, what was the point of the Kneysha storyline?  It seems obvious to everyone but Benton that she is extremely troubled and really beyond his ability to help.  And in the end, it goes nowhere, except leaving me to question why Cleo would have stayed with Benton after Kynesha trashed her home. 

Finally, I just realized that Corday screws up the surgery with the surfer one week, is sued the next week and is immediately deposed the week after that.  That is one of the fastest moving lawsuits I've ever seen.   

[Heathen]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Think about the brawl they had in Season 7 when the one high school football player died from his injuries, and the two rival teams had a throwdown, with everyone, including the cheerleaders, attacking one another, in the ER.  It was completely absurd. 

Also, speaking of Season 7, what was the point of the Kneysha storyline?  It seems obvious to everyone but Benton that she is extremely troubled and really beyond his ability to help.  And in the end, it goes nowhere, except leaving me to question why Cleo would have stayed with Benton after Kynesha trashed her home. 

Finally, I just realized that Corday screws up the surgery with the surfer one week, is sued the next week and is immediately deposed the week after that.  That is one of the fastest moving lawsuits I've ever seen.   

Even the O'Brien lawsuit went from death to deposition to settlement in like a year -- maybe even less. 

For St. Crabby, it probably would have been blatant malpractice to settlement in her favor in half an hour. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

43 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Even the O'Brien lawsuit went from death to deposition to settlement in like a year -- maybe even less. 

For St. Crabby, it probably would have been blatant malpractice to settlement in her favor in half an hour. 

I think the O’Brien suit was less than a year, but I thought it was even more ridiculous to bring back Bradley Whitford to awkwardly interact with Mark for five seconds. It would have been more interesting to have him in the deposition the way Chris Law was present later in the series.

I honestly kind of would have liked to see Abby get sued for malpractice in S14 because a patient or their family could tell she was working while drunk. But you’re right. There would probably be some excuse in there about how she was “overwhelmed” by the insurmountable, unheard of task of being a working mommy and she was just having a bad day, so let’s cut her some slack for her bravery. And then Luka would punch the plaintiff and/or the opposing counsel and tell them to stay the hell away from Abby, and everyone would clap.

(I mean, I know it sounds like crackfic, but it was S14; this kind of writing wouldn’t have been far fetched for that era.)

Edited December 20, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Cloud9Shopper]

I am almost at the end of S8 and am thinking I may need a break from watching after I get through On the Beach.

Bygones and Orion in the Sky are like a gut punch, between how sad it is in the beginning of Bygones where Mark and Elizabeth are still living separately, and then when Romano tells her she needs to go home and be with Mark as he’s dying. That was a really powerful conversation, and to see Elizabeth forgive Rachel in the moment and let her take Ella was also a nice touch.

I also liked Jen’s acceptance of what went wrong in hers and Mark’s marriage and how she’s shown as being in denial of what’s about to happen to him, but knows how badly it’s affecting Rachel. The pouring rain and thunderstorms in Orion in the Sky only add to the overall vibe of the episode. 

Honestly, the end of that episode, where the patient salutes Mark and Mark tells Carter “you set the tone”…the show could have ended there and it would have felt perfect. Instead, we are going to beat a dead horse for seven more years. But that’s another topic. I liked the way Kerry appeared to be thinking about what Mark told her about living a little and never letting work become her life. She really has kept chasing everything for years almost to a fault.

I’m skipping Brothers and Sisters (the Third Watch crossover). I don’t particularly care about the return of Chloe or another rehash of how Abby claims she can drink in recovery and be perfectly fine and she is totally under control. 

So, my next episodes are The Letter and On the Beach. If these episodes tonight were sad enough I will be in tears next time, probably. Mark is really the cornerstone of this show and I’m not ready to let go of the glory days. 

[Notabug]

8 hours ago, Heathen said:

Even the O'Brien lawsuit went from death to deposition to settlement in like a year -- maybe even less. 

For St. Crabby, it probably would have been blatant malpractice to settlement in her favor in half an hour. 

In real life, it takes the average malpractice suit about 4 years to make it to trial and most suits aren't even filed until the statute of limitations is approaching to give the plaintiff's attorneys enough time to investigate and write the most comprehensive complaint that they can. The SOL is usually a year after the event occurred.  So, in the case of LLL, Mark wouldn't even have been deposed until the kid was probably nearly 2 years old and the boy would've been in kindergarten at least, before it came to trial.

The only cases that settle quickly are those that are so egregious that there is no defense and those often never even come to a complaint being filed.  Something really terrible happens (wrong organ removed, wrong medication administered, wrong type blood hung, etc) and the hospital's attorneys are notified ASAP and they will usually meet with the patient and/or family within days to weeks and start settlement talks.  I knew a physician who was involved in a wrong site surgery and the patient had already received a settlement from the hospital by the time she was 6 weeks postop.  She suffered no lasting ill effects from the error, which was caught at the time and the correct procedure done; but the error was so obvious, there was no other explanation for it.  Best to settle and move on in those situations.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Notabug

[Heathen]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:50 AM, Notabug said:

In real life, it takes the average malpractice suit about 4 years to make it to trial and most suits aren't even filed until the statute of limitations is approaching to give the plaintiff's attorneys enough time to investigate and write the most comprehensive complaint that they can. The SOL is usually a year after the event occurred.  So, in the case of LLL, Mark wouldn't even have been deposed until the kid was probably nearly 2 years old and the boy would've been in kindergarten at least, before it came to trial.

The only cases that settle quickly are those that are so egregious that there is no defense and those often never even come to a complaint being filed.  Something really terrible happens (wrong organ removed, wrong medication administered, wrong type blood hung, etc) and the hospital's attorneys are notified ASAP and they will usually meet with the patient and/or family within days to weeks and start settlement talks.  I knew a physician who was involved in a wrong site surgery and the patient had already received a settlement from the hospital by the time she was 6 weeks postop.  She suffered no lasting ill effects from the error, which was caught at the time and the correct procedure done; but the error was so obvious, there was no other explanation for it.  Best to settle and move on in those situations.

How did that error happen? I'm thinking of Romano, when his dead arm was about to be amputated, having Corday write "Not this one, idiot" on his good arm. 

[txhorns79]

I'm in Season 8 now.  It's a big transition season.  Susan returns as Peter, Cleo, Malucci and Mark exit the building.  I'll admit, even if Chen really screwed up with the Marfan Syndrome patient, and deserved the demotion, I did enjoy Weaver getting her comeuppance for throwing Chen and Malucci under the bus to try and save herself.  

Also, I'm curious what the view might be now on Sandy purposefully outing Weaver at work.  Then, it was treated as though it was necessary for Weaver's growth, but I feel like now Sandy would be seen as a villain, i.e given she outed Weaver for personal reasons without much thought as to how the outing might effect Weaver's job.  

Also, as a side note, and probably an indication I've seen the show too many times, I see that Cousin Chase Carter's distinctive fireplace has become the backdrop for Luka's kitchen in his loft.        

[Dr.OO7]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:50 AM, Notabug said:

The only cases that settle quickly are those that are so egregious that there is no defense and those often never even come to a complaint being filed.  Something really terrible happens (wrong organ removed, wrong medication administered, wrong type blood hung, etc) and the hospital's attorneys are notified ASAP and they will usually meet with the patient and/or family within days to weeks and start settlement talks.

I don't know why my previous post vanished, but the malpractice lawsuit my family brought after my sister's death was settled quickly for the very same reason--they failed to do a sepsis workup or admit her for prophylactic IV antibiotics despite her presenting to the ER with symptoms--vomiting, lower abdominal pain, high fever--and lab work--an elevated white blood cell count--that clearly indicated some kind of infection and sent her home with nothing more than painkillers. She returned 2 days later, with her symptoms having worsened and they finally did admit her, but it was too late by then.

(Toxic Shock Syndrome, btw)

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'll admit, even if Chen really screwed up with the Marfan Syndrome patient, and deserved the demotion, I did enjoy Weaver getting her comeuppance for throwing Chen and Malucci under the bus to try and save herself.  

Weaver's behavior in that story--pretending to have Chen's back while all the while preparing to stab her in it--was truly cowardly and despicable. And then to cap it off by lying to Chen about trying to advocate for her--"I went on record against this"--was even more so. I don't blame Chen for quitting upon realizing that someone she trusted had screwed her over like that so that she herself would incur no punishment.

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Also, I'm curious what the view might be now on Sandy purposefully outing Weaver at work.  Then, it was treated as though it was necessary for Weaver's growth, but I feel like now Sandy would be seen as a villain, i.e given she outed Weaver for personal reasons without much thought as to how the outing might effect Weaver's job.  

Overall, I thought it was a lousy thing for Sandy to do. While Kerry did need to get over herself and Sandy had the right to not want to date someone who wanted to keep their relationship secret, it wasn't Sandy's place to expose her like that.

[Notabug]

16 hours ago, Heathen said:

How did that error happen? I'm thinking of Romano, when his dead arm was about to be amputated, having Corday write "Not this one, idiot" on his good arm. 

I'm a gynecologist,  not all body parts are amenable to using permanent marker prior to surgery, as you can imagine.  The patient had the same problem in both structures (labia minora, if you must know).  However, one bothered her and the other did not.  She only wanted the one problem addressed.  The consent form did not identify which side she wanted addressed and, when the team did their 'sign in' prior to going back to the OR, the patient didn't speak up when the wrong side was identified as the surgical site.  When she woke up afterwards, she realized that the situation that bothered her had not been addressed and this was immediately remedied.

I had a knee replacement a couple weeks ago and the surgeon did indeed use a marker to identify the correct side pre-op, even though my other knee is already fake.

[txhorns79]

14 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I don't blame Chen for quitting upon realizing that someone she trusted had screwed her over like that so that she herself would incur no punishment.

And even after that, Weaver still acted like she had done nothing wrong.  That was my problem.  I think back to the episode where Peter screwed up the infant's surgery while he was being overseen by Dr. Keaton.  She acknowledged that the botched surgery would be her responsibility, while still being Peter's fault.  That was something Kerry just couldn't bring herself to do.   

[Dr.OO7]

13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And even after that, Weaver still acted like she had done nothing wrong.  That was my problem.  I think back to the episode where Peter screwed up the infant's surgery while he was being overseen by Dr. Keaton.  She acknowledged that the botched surgery would be her responsibility, while still being Peter's fault.  That was something Kerry just couldn't bring herself to do.   

Something else I really hated about her--nothing was ever her fault. It's not her fault the Marfan's patient died even though she should have been there to supervise Malucci and Chen, Chen's punishment isn't her fault--"I went on record against this"--despite her explicitly telling risk management to make sure she bore the brunt of it, and even when she finally admits to what she did, she still manages to blame it on Chen and gloss over her conscious and deliberate decision to lie and manipulate things in her favor.

She always wanted all of the credit but none of the blame. 

It doesn't work like that. Especially when you're the one in charge. You can't lament how incompetent your subordinates are without realizing that people are going to wonder why YOU failed to correct this.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Dr.OO7

[Bastet]

I guess Chen learned from Kerry in all the wrong ways, because when she gets herself reinstated, she acts like she didn't do anything wrong in that whole mess.

I think I liked Chen as much as I did because of Ming-Na Wen, because the writing frequently didn't do her any favors.  Same with Kerry, I suppose; in fact, there Kerry was brought in as an antagonist, yet I usually found myself on her side back then.

[Cloud9Shopper]

37 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I guess Chen learned from Kerry in all the wrong ways, because when she gets herself reinstated, she acts like she didn't do anything wrong in that whole mess.

I laughed when she demanded “shift equity” (although I have no idea what this means in the medical field) and told Kerry she wouldn’t report to her. In what other job can you tell your boss they’re not your boss? I wouldn’t have blamed Kerry if she told Chen to go find another job at that point, although I know she was essentially handed an attending role by Romano.

And then she quits again for the third time two years later anyway. 

[Olis93]

Chen was a character that just seemed to be "there". She had some big storylines for sure but more often than not she just faded into the background while other characters took prominence. By the end of her run she was barely on the show and it was hardly a loss when she left.

I like the actress and character but Chen didn't add much to ER. 

[Notabug]

4 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I laughed when she demanded “shift equity” (although I have no idea what this means in the medical field) and told Kerry she wouldn’t report to her. In what other job can you tell your boss they’re not your boss? I wouldn’t have blamed Kerry if she told Chen to go find another job at that point, although I know she was essentially handed an attending role by Romano.

And then she quits again for the third time two years later anyway. 

'Shift equity' is a pretty big topic in jobs that require 24/7/365 staffing, like ER attending. I work as a physician for a large hospital system and the distribution of the workload is a big perk.  Where I work, one's employment contract not only spells out how many hours a week will be worked, but how much of that will be on weekends, nights and holidays.  Unlike hourly employees, salaried employees like docs do no usually make extra for working the less popular times, so it is important to distribute those shifts fairly or docs will not sign or will quit at the first opportunity.

The system where I work bases salary not only on how often the doc works but on how much of it is off-hours.  There is an absolute number of shifts per time period to be considered a full time employee as well as a requirement that at least x number of those shifts fall into certain less popular time slots.  The required number of off-hour shifts is also based on the doc's age and length of service.  For example, if the doc wants to stop taking call before age 60, it's an automatic 25% pay cut off the top, and is also contingent on there being enough other docs to pick up the slack.  After age 60, it is a 12% pay cut and the doc gets it if they want even if the numbers don't add up and the hospital has to hire other docs and pay extra to get coverage.

Chen knew Kerry far too well, and, that,  if left to her own devices, Kerry would be happy to offer Chen a contract that required her to ONLY work nights, weekends or holidays or some other unfair arrangement.  And, if given the chance, Kerry's track record indicated that she probably would do exactly that, both to punish Chen and to get her to leave for good.

[Heathen]

I've progressed to season eight -- I'm into the St. Crabby, Adored by All Men crap. She's even more annoying this time around. She and Carter are about to head to Oklahoma -- maybe she'll get lost on the way back and only Carter will return to Chicago. 

I'd like someone to explain why it was acceptable for Kovac, an attending, to superglue Malucci's hand to his face. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

54 minutes ago, Heathen said:

I've progressed to season eight -- I'm into the St. Crabby, Adored by All Men crap. She's even more annoying this time around. She and Carter are about to head to Oklahoma -- maybe she'll get lost on the way back and only Carter will return to Chicago. 

I'd like someone to explain why it was acceptable for Kovac, an attending, to superglue Malucci's hand to his face. 

Everyone says the “everybody loves Neela” storyline is annoying but I feel like the plot of both Carter and Luka wanting Abby, and then the med student calling her hot in S11, was just as ridiculous. Too much personal drama and there is nothing “hot” about her stringy hair and bangs flopping all over the place in later seasons. Even before her relapse she looked strung out and like she put no effort into her appearance; she even looked bland and unattractive (not to mention totally annoyed) at her own wedding. It was so hard to believe that two successful men who would certainly have tons of options for a potential romance were both dying to sleep with Abby, and one of them eventually got her pregnant. Because nothing says “I’m ready for a baby” like someone who has a long family history of mental illness and can barely keep her alcoholism under control. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Heathen]

More St. Crabby -- in season 8, episode 2, why did the writers think it made sense for Haleh to ask for assistance from Abby? Haleh is a veteran ER nurse who probably knows as much as the doctors and can put in a Foley catheter in her sleep. Abby hasn't even been in the ER that long! 

The Abby adoration is stupid, and kind of nauseating. 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

42 minutes ago, Heathen said:

More St. Crabby -- in season 8, episode 2, why did the writers think it made sense for Haleh to ask for assistance from Abby? Haleh is a veteran ER nurse who probably knows as much as the doctors and can put in a Foley catheter in her sleep. Abby hasn't even been in the ER that long! 

The Abby adoration is stupid, and kind of nauseating. 

 

Carol even said as much about Haleh way back in S1 when Benton was complaining about the nurses. 

I almost wonder who Maura Tierney gave a hand job to or slept with to get so much airtime and have her character written like a saint. Not even Carol or Elizabeth always got that kind of writing. 

[WendyCR72]

Let's not attribute actors with the casting couch or similar lines of thought, please. Disliking a character is fine, but let's just keep this civil, etc.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

[txhorns79]

On 12/24/2023 at 3:59 PM, Bastet said:

I guess Chen learned from Kerry in all the wrong ways, because when she gets herself reinstated, she acts like she didn't do anything wrong in that whole mess.

Heck, the next season doesn't Kerry accidentally kill the Alderman's secret, very young, boyfriend and then try to cover it up?  The last words she had the guy saying on this Earth was a made up story of how he got the penicillin in order to save Weaver and the Alderman from professional ruin.  It's horrifying if you think about it, and I don't recall there being any actual consequences for Kerry.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

I didn't like the no consequences for Kerry about the alderman's 'friend'. 

I also disliked that the custody case for the baby with Sandy between Kerry and Sandy's family was so abruptly ended by Sandy's mother suddenly folding. 

 Then, when Kerry got the job in Miami, nothing was said about her taking the baby with her, and  Sandy's family not even mentioned.  

[Dr.OO7]

16 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Heck, the next season doesn't Kerry accidentally kill the Alderman's secret, very young, boyfriend and then try to cover it up?  The last words she had the guy saying on this Earth was a made up story of how he got the penicillin in order to save Weaver and the Alderman from professional ruin.  It's horrifying if you think about it, and I don't recall there being any actual consequences for Kerry.  

It really is and it was absolutely the lowest point both for Kerry in general and her ever-present hypocrisy. Watching the same woman who wouldn't even let Doug touch any patients because of his possible involvement in euthanizing another essentially get away with manslaughter/criminally negligent homicide--and be rewarded with the Chief of Staff position!--was thoroughly sickening. Let's not forget that it started with yet another major violation of policy--hiding the Alderman's syphilis results instead of reporting it to the Department of Public Health.

[GiandujaPie]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:09 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Everyone says the “everybody loves Neela” storyline is annoying but I feel like the plot of both Carter and Luka wanting Abby, and then the med student calling her hot in S11, was just as ridiculous. Too much personal drama and there is nothing “hot” about her stringy hair and bangs flopping all over the place in later seasons. Even before her relapse she looked strung out and like she put no effort into her appearance; she even looked bland and unattractive (not to mention totally annoyed) at her own wedding. It was so hard to believe that two successful men who would certainly have tons of options for a potential romance were both dying to sleep with Abby, and one of them eventually got her pregnant. Because nothing says “I’m ready for a baby” like someone who has a long family history of mental illness and can barely keep her alcoholism under control. 

Who's everyone? As far as I can see, I'm the only one who actively dislikes Neela. I'm not an Abby cheerleader, but I don't see that she's treated as being more likable or desirable than the way the show depicts Neela. I'm at season 14/15 and suddenly Neela/Brenner throw their clothes off and screw in her office and now he can't stop following her around like a puppy dog and asking her out for dinner or coffee, after we've been shown that he's an a$$ towards towards women he sleeps with. And this is after we're treated to Neela being desired by Ray, Gates, Dubenko, all of the ortho surgeons, and now Brenner. I don't even know why Gallant was so hot for her. 

Abby is shown her flaws and I agree, I don't think she's a catch either, has too much baggage, is often crabby and seems to always be in a bad mood. I never understood why Carter was so into her but if I remember, he admitted he was drawn to her for an inexplicable reason, and not because she was "hot". His teenage girlfriend at the time who called Abby "hot" was immature and maybe in her eyes, Abby being older and having a career made her seem desirable. I know when I was younger, it would have seemed that way to me. 

And while we're at it, why is it that Sam is so desirable either? I get that Luka wanted a ready-made family with her and Alex but that was a ton of baggage that she had, but I guess Luka likes that in his women. Sam and Gates make a lot more sense than him with Neela though. I actually think they match pretty well so far. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I just thought it was unusual that someone like Abby landed a hot guy who was seemingly more together in life than she could ever hope to be, and I never got why she and Luka are consistently named one of the best and most loved couples of the show if you look up those “best ER couples” lists or spend time in other fandom groups. I have, and it seems like 95% of people in other spaces gush over Abby and Luka and their “love story.” I can’t see them staying married for the rest of their lives, and their second go-round seemed to be based on an accidental pregnancy (with a child Abby doesn’t even love) rather than genuinely being in love. Even the wedding he practically had to drag her into it and beg her after planning it behind her back. And of course she gets the wedding in the end instead of a sequence wherein Luka just gets fed up and walks away, leaving her humiliated (which is honestly what a lot of men may have done if their bride shrieked at them like a hyena on their wedding day). 

Anyway, I always thought that her ending up with Luka despite her non-existent maternal instincts and her carelessness about her drinking, plus all her family drama and the fact that she never supports her partner when they need it, was a subtle way of the show telling us just how amazing she is that of course she deserves one of the most desirable men in the hospital and a happily ever after with him even though she almost ruined their family with her behavior. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Cloud9Shopper]

I skipped the Third Watch crossover episode because who cares?

So I watched The Letter and On the Beach tonight, and I continue to feel the series should have ended here, especially with the nod to Mark saying the ER would move forward without him and the letter blowing the way at the end.

Kerry’s reaction felt very human to me, as she acted uncharacteristic of herself (snapping at the patient) before leaving the situation to break down and cry. The awkward silence after Carter finished reading the letter spoke a lot of volumes as well.

I really wished the scene between Carter and Abby arguing about why she needed to go to AA and her being drunk had been edited out. Or better yet not written in the first place. It didn’t fit the rest of the episode and took away from the overall theme of being a tribute to Mark. I don’t want to say a lot about it (for a change, I know 😂) but yeah we get it, Abby is drinking and doesn’t care so let’s move on. 

The end of On the Beach really hit hard. I almost wonder if Rachel told Mark she didn’t remember all that stuff about her childhood because she was in denial or if she genuinely does not remember. I liked Mark coming down on her and admitting she got a bad deal; it seemed like that really sunk in with her. 

Seeing everyone at the grave really made me choke up. I was going to finish S8 tonight but I always felt the Lockdown episode (the first part of the two-parter with the smallpox cases) should have been moved to S9 and S8 should have ended with On the Beach. It doesn’t feel right to go from Mark’s funeral to Plague of the Week. I’ll come back to it in a few days or next week or something. I wasn’t in the mood at the moment. 

I really do miss Mark’s character as the series chugs along. For his flaws as a parent and his screw-ups as a doctor, I always believed he was a generally decent guy who wanted to do the best job he could at work and in his home life. And IMO, he is the cornerstone of the show. You really can’t replace your main character/star that easily and expect the show to feel the same or be as good as it once was. It would be like if Olivia left SVU. Like yeah the show could go on, but the change in quality and loss of the central character would definitely be noticeable. That’s how I feel about S9 and going forward until ER returns to form in S15. 

[txhorns79]

Season 10.  Blech. 

Romano was clearly an example of a character with which the writers really did not want to part.  He could say awful things to people with impunity and behave like a crazed tyrant.  Instead of having him leave the hospital with grace, he became a menacing cartoon who could only exit the show in a cartoon-ish way, via a helicopter crashing on him.   

I will also never get past Sam not being able to put her feelings about Luka aside and instead, during a trauma(!), throws a suture kit at him.  She should have been disciplined, if not fired, for this grossly unprofessional behavior.  

And Neela, grow up.  Even if you don't want to be a doctor, at least complete your internship, and then go look for other, more suitable positions.  Don't flake out before it even begins.

Finally, I did notice that when Sandy comes into the hospital following the fire, the paramedic says she is a 29 year old female.  I mean, this nicely, but Lisa Vidal was almost 40 when that episode aired.  There was no way her character was still in her 20s.    

 

[Driad]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Romano was clearly an example of a character with which the writers really did not want to part.

They wrote him very badly.  After he lost his arm, they could have had him try to adapt to a different medical specialty.  Paul McCrane could have improved the show if he had a well-written story line, but they turned Romano into a cartoon instead, as you said.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Neela is lucky County gave her an internship after the crap she pulled in Michigan. She proved herself to be a flake over something that she didn’t even try to adjust to. And don’t get me started on that whole quarterlife crisis stuff before County took her back where she’s working at the Jumbo Mart and trying to apply in retail. 

Romano’s death is what really killed the show in case you didn’t think it already pretty much died when Mark did. Not because I’m trying to suggest Romano was as beloved as Mark, but it was just such a stupid plot and after the 50th “oh haha what did Romano do to a helicopter” joke…it’s just not that funny when it actually happens. And then not even 10 episodes later Morris is being chased with an army tank. 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Neela is lucky County gave her an internship after the crap she pulled in Michigan. She proved herself to be a flake over something that she didn’t even try to adjust to. And don’t get me started on that whole quarterlife crisis stuff before County took her back where she’s working at the Jumbo Mart and trying to apply in retail. 

This.  And during Season 10 when they are discussing potential matches, all the attendings seem to agree that Neela is not well suited to emergency medicine, except Carter and Neela proves him wrong pretty quickly.  Yet, for the sake of the show, she's back doing emergency medicine. 

[GiandujaPie]

Neela should never have been allowed to come back to County, especially in the ER after all of the attendings, except Carter, agreed she wasn't suited to emergency medicine. Yet, when she comes back, she's suddenly the best and most sexually desired female working there. And now she's such a great surgeon too. BS. 

I'm on season 15 and I still don't understand why Brenner is infatuated with her. After she told him that she wasn't interested in getting together with him, despite their "awkward shag", he still follows her around trying to get her to go out with him. Is it just that she's playing hard to get? 

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, GiandujaPie said:

Neela should never have been allowed to come back to County, especially in the ER after all of the attendings, except Carter, agreed she wasn't suited to emergency medicine. Yet, when she comes back, she's suddenly the best and most sexually desired female working there. And now she's such a great surgeon too. BS. 

Not to mention that she went from ER intern to super duper surgeon, doing brain transplants by herself, in about two years. Come on. 

[ShortyMac]

5 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Neela is lucky County gave her an internship after the crap she pulled in Michigan. She proved herself to be a flake over something that she didn’t even try to adjust to. And don’t get me started on that whole quarterlife crisis stuff before County took her back where she’s working at the Jumbo Mart and trying to apply in retail.

Remember, the only reason she got back into County was because Howard, the intern with severe OCD, quit, which left an opening.

[Acmeproducts]

I don’t understand the writers’ fascination with Neela.