All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Cloud9Shopper]

Someone posted on the ER Reddit yesterday that if the show were still on, Joe (Abby and Luka’s son) would be nearly 18 now.

In a universe where ER life has continued, I hope Joe told Abby she is nobody’s mother and is making a plot to run away and cut his parents out of his life as soon as he turns 18. (If they are even still married.) I can’t see that family ever being functional and happy and having a quiet life, and I don’t think Joe stood of a chance of a good childhood.  

Makes me wonder what became of the other ER kids too (besides Rachel, because we saw her in the finale). 

I’m still deciding if I will continue my latest watch. I didn’t expect Mark’s death to make me lose so much interest in continuing this time around. Maybe it’s because I’ve seen the whole series before and know it’s not going to get better for a good long while. I could still change my mind, though, so I haven’t written it off. Does anyone else just kind of…stop at some point and start over or move on to another series? 

I did finish off a long ER fanfic last week though! It was the first time I’ve ever written over 100,000 words, so throughout my writing, at least I was still interested enough in the show to keep chugging. Link to fic:

Even on My Weakest Days

Edited December 31, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I’m still deciding if I will continue my latest watch. I didn’t expect Mark’s death to make me lose so much interest in continuing this time around. Maybe it’s because I’ve seen the whole series before and know it’s not going to get better for a good long while. I could still change my mind, though, so I haven’t written it off. Does anyone else just kind of…stop at some point and start over or move on to another series? 

I finished season 8 this week, and frankly, I don't really give a damn about watching the subsequent seasons. They're just dull. I might watch the Darfur episodes (because Eamonn Walker), but otherwise, I'll find something else to do. I  have books calling my name. 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

11 hours ago, Heathen said:

I finished season 8 this week, and frankly, I don't really give a damn about watching the subsequent seasons. They're just dull. I might watch the Darfur episodes (because Eamonn Walker), but otherwise, I'll find something else to do. I  have books calling my name. 

 

Books? Instead of TV? What is this you are speaking of? /s 🤣

The Africa episodes always bored me. I have been wanting to watch The West Wing and 9-1-1, though. 

[Heathen]

12 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Books? Instead of TV? What is this you are speaking of? /s 🤣

The Africa episodes always bored me. I have been wanting to watch The West Wing and 9-1-1, though. 

MOST of the Africa episodes are boring. But Eamonn Walker...not so much. 

I still think Carter and Debbie would have made a good couple. Kem can go find someone else to whine and feel superior to. 

[Kel Varnsen]

12 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

The Africa episodes always bored me. I have been wanting to watch The West Wing and 9-1-1, though. 

It was weird, I liked in the earlier seasons how when they did the outside of county episodes they found different places to go. Some worked and some didn't. Then once they started going to Africa that is all they did and they got super repetitive.

[Cloud9Shopper]

My favorite out of the hospital episode is Middle of Nowhere from S5, when Benton goes to Mississippi. It captured the culture of the rural south well and wasn’t preachy, and I think it showcased the challenges of working in rural medicine with limited resources in an authentic way. Plus it only lasted one episode…if it had been the way the Africa episodes went where Benton kept going back and forth, I’m sure it would have run its course. 

53 minutes ago, Heathen said:

I still think Carter and Debbie would have made a good couple. Kem can go find someone else to whine and feel superior to. 

Carter really got a raw deal on love interests. Roxanne the insurance lady, his cousin’s ex-wife, Wendell the social worker, Abby, Kem…I wish he could have ended up with a stable relationship that had a chance of going somewhere. 

[Heathen]

6 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

My favorite out of the hospital episode is Middle of Nowhere from S5, when Benton goes to Mississippi. It captured the culture of the rural south well and wasn’t preachy, and I think it showcased the challenges of working in rural medicine with limited resources in an authentic way. Plus it only lasted one episode…if it had been the way the Africa episodes went where Benton kept going back and forth, I’m sure it would have run its course. 

Carter really got a raw deal on love interests. Roxanne the insurance lady, his cousin’s ex-wife, Wendell the social worker, Abby, Kem…I wish he could have ended up with a stable relationship that had a chance of going somewhere. 

Don't forget the woman in season one who gave him an STI, and Harper, who cheated on him with Doug. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

21 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Don't forget the woman in season one who gave him an STI, and Harper, who cheated on him with Doug. 

Was the woman with the STI the one who was his patient in like the second episode of the series? The one who was making out with him in the radiology room when Flint walked in?

And we did get that memorable line from Flint: “S1, S2, S3, S4, keep that pelvis off the floor.” 

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Was the woman with the STI the one who was his patient in like the second episode of the series? The one who was making out with him in the radiology room when Flint walked in?

And we did get that memorable line from Flint: “S1, S2, S3, S4, keep that pelvis off the floor.” 

That's the one.  She kept coming into the ER with various minor complaints to flirt with the doctors.  I believe her name was Liz although I think Flint joked that it was Gonorrhea and she referred to herself as Proserpina, a Roman fertility goddess.  She was in the first real episode Day 1.

And, yes, I have watched this show too many times.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

And we did get that memorable line from Flint: “S1, S2, S3, S4, keep that pelvis off the floor.” 

I loved that line!

[Cloud9Shopper]

Happy new year my fellow ER fans! Grateful for this community and that you all put up with my opinions that aren’t really accepted elsewhere even if you don’t agree with them, and don’t mind that I talk about my fanfic from time to time.

:)

Anyway, it looks like ER might be leaving Hulu soon for anyone who watches it there. Heard the news last night and now in my app it says “expiring in 13 days.” I don’t get Pop on my cable plan and don’t really want to add another streaming platform to my budget right now to continue on Max, so I’m guessing that’s my sign to go watch something else for a little while. 😂

[txhorns79]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:26 PM, Heathen said:

Carter really got a raw deal on love interests. Roxanne the insurance lady, his cousin’s ex-wife, Wendell the social worker, Abby, Kem…

He and Kem really were just deadweight.  For me, I thought neither Noah Wyle nor Thandie Newton were particularly strong actors, and giving them a big dramatic storyline just did not work.  I'm not sure why Carter kept going back to her, as they seemed as though they were only together because she got pregnant.  Once she lost the baby, it seemed as though she mostly lost interest in Carter, but he kept trying to force a relationship.   

Then we have Season 11.  Carter seems to think he got tenure on merit, even though it came only after he donated millions to the hospital.  Shane West is not a great actor.  I hate the way Corday was written out, but I agree it was time for her to go.  The fact her last scene was with Carter only shows how little connection she still really had with the cast.  I also felt bad for Weaver if only because birth mother was such a disappointment.  Pretending to be a fake patient at the hospital was really sketchy behavior, and ultimately rejecting Weaver because she was gay was just sad all around.         

[Cloud9Shopper]

I didn’t like Ray at all.

As far as Elizabeth goes, I thought she deserved a better send off than what she got. Even Neela got a full episode and big party as if she were ever that well-liked in the first place.

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

He and Kem really were just deadweight.  For me, I thought neither Noah Wyle nor Thandie Newton were particularly strong actors, and giving them a big dramatic storyline just did not work.  I'm not sure why Carter kept going back to her, as they seemed as though they were only together because she got pregnant.  Once she lost the baby, it seemed as though she mostly lost interest in Carter, but he kept trying to force a relationship.  

Kem really strung him along all the way to the series finale. I don’t know why he stuck around hoping for her to give anything to the relationship or be with him once and for all.

I also feel the same about Abby and Luka’s second go-round as you do Carter and Kem. It felt like they only stayed together because of the pregnancy that happened way too fast, and Abby never seemed that interested in or happy about having the baby to begin with. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I really didn't understand the continuing Kem / Carter storyline.  I think it was just because Thandie Newton and Noah Wyle were involved in other shows, and producers thought they would draw viewers.    Even Kem's mother in the Paris hospital scenes told Carter it was hopeless.  I think when the mother told Carter to keep trying with Kem, it was just lip service, and she wasn't serious that he had any hope of keeping the marriage alive.     It was obvious that Kem and her 'friend' were more than that.   The entire romance was just bizarre after they lost the baby.   

Edited January 2 by CrazyInAlabama

[Mrsmaul2021]

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 

Then we have Season 11.  Carter seems to think he got tenure on merit, even though it came only after he donated millions to the hospital.         

 

 

I have lurked here for a long time but I feel the need to speak on this. I do not see Carter as wrong here.  In fact after Carter donated the money, the board suggested Carter apply for tenure.  he does. he gets it.  he did nothing wrong.  He did not "steal" it from Susan. Susan came up way short in the running   Okay maybe it was an ass**** move for him to receive tenure and immediately leave County but still, Carter saw his opportunity, he took it, I personally can't get mad at him for that. 🤷‍♀️

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Even Kem's mother in the Paris hospital scenes told Carter it was hopeless. 

I thought she said he was giving up too easily.  I do agree that it wasn't clear why Carter kept pursuing the relationship.  It did not seem like Kem had much interest. 

Quote

He did not "steal" it from Susan.

I agree with that.  There were legitimate reasons not to give it to Susan. However, I do believe he only got it because of his donation, not because of his teaching ability, writings or medical skills.

[Mrsmaul2021]

21 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

 

I agree with that.  There were legitimate reasons not to give it to Susan. However, I do believe he only got it because of his donation, not because of his teaching ability, writings or medical skills.

 

 

I KNOW that's why he got it LOL! All I am saying is, Carter didn't make the donation just to get tenure and I think he would have been a fool to turn it down when they suggested he apply and after he received it. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought she said he was giving up too easily.  I do agree that it wasn't clear why Carter kept pursuing the relationship.  It did not seem like Kem had much interest. 

I agree with that.  There were legitimate reasons not to give it to Susan. However, I do believe he only got it because of his donation, not because of his teaching ability, writings or medical skills.

I thought when the mother said Carter should keep pursuing Kem, it was half-hearted and she really knew Kem would never stay with Carter.   

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I agree with that.  There were legitimate reasons not to give it to Susan. However, I do believe he only got it because of his donation, not because of his teaching ability, writings or medical skills.

If I remember that storyline Susan was pissed off that Carter took her spot. But the dude made a big enough donation to design and build a huge new hospital building. I imagine even if there weren't any open tenure positions available they would make one for a millionaire doctor who donates that much cash.

[Mrsmaul2021]

26 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

If I remember that storyline Susan was pissed off that Carter took her spot. But the dude made a big enough donation to design and build a huge new hospital building. I imagine even if there weren't any open tenure positions available they would make one for a millionaire doctor who donates that much cash.

 

 

And Susan came up way short in that dept. Kerry mentioned that Susan waited until the last minute to actively pursue grants and she had only raised $75,000. She mentioned a person seriously seeking tenure should AT LEAST be at a million dollars.  They also mentioned her publishing fell short and I remember watching season 1 when Morgenstern mentioned Susan's lack of publishing. 

[Bastet]

Yeah, they said Carter had published more, too.  I don't believe we ever saw that, but that's what they presented.  So she didn't do the things one needs to do to get the role, just thought she should get it because she was good in her current role.  That's not how it works.  She was out of line getting pissy at Carter; they were not equally qualified, with his donation being the only difference, she didn't put in the proper effort to begin with.  (I'd understand her being upset, and targeting her ire outward rather than at herself at first, but I don't think she ever, in time, admitted she'd let herself down.)

Edited January 2 by Bastet

[Heathen]

I'm skipping around the truly sucky, later seasons. I kind of like the storyline overall, but what is with the way they dressed the unhoused street kids? The one kid is gray. And "the man at the desk told" Gray Kid that the kid with rabies was at the care something? HIPAA laws, anyone? 

[Notabug]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, they said Carter had published more, too.  I don't believe we ever saw that, but that's what they presented.  So she didn't do the things one needs to do to get the role, just thought she should get it because she was good in her current role.  That's not how it works.  She was out of line getting pissy at Carter; they were not equally qualified, with his donation being the only difference, she didn't put in the proper effort to begin with.  (I'd understand her being upset, and targeting her ire outward rather than at herself at first, but I don't think she ever, in time, admitted she'd let herself down.)

Exactly.  Even if Carter hadn't been offered tenure, it doesn't mean that Susan was next in line anyway.  As a practitioner in a health care system that does have tenured faculty, there really are two career paths; one emphasizing academics, the other clinical work. 

Tenure track doctors have a keen interest in research in their field and have published regularly since med school.  They've mentored, taught, and advised residents and med students conducting research projects, they have obtained large monetary grants to support their research and they are known experts in their field, someone the news media will contact and quote if something pertaining to their interest is in the news.  Most have clinical practices, but spend a significant part of their workday on the academic side, like a college professor.

Non-tenure track docs concentrate on direct patient care.  They work full time or close to it in that area.  They might do some mentoring of students and residents in the OR or office, they might occasionally give a lecture on a clinical topic to the residents or students or help recruit patients for a clinical research study but it is not their focus.

I'm non-tenure all the way, BTW. I like teaching in a clinical setting; seeing patients with residents and students and discussing the history, exam and diagnosis and treatment.  I would rather chew glass than do research in a lab.  I am semi-famous amongst the residents for my annual lectures on operative vaginal delivery (forceps!) complete with props and the history of the obstetric forcep and the Chamberlain family which I include not because of major clinical significance but because it is a fascinating tale in the history of medicine..

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

I'm skipping around the truly sucky, later seasons. I kind of like the storyline overall, but what is with the way they dressed the unhoused street kids? The one kid is gray. And "the man at the desk told" Gray Kid that the kid with rabies was at the care something? HIPAA laws, anyone? 

HIPPAA came into being in 1996, while ER was in its early seasons and almost every episode includes multiple HIPA violations.  Remember Mark whining and complaining when Kerry stopped allowing patient names on the status board?  Linking identifiable elements to a diagnosis and location is about as big a HIPAA violation as there is and Mark, of all people, having just recently completed his residency, should've been well aware of it and advocating on behalf of patient privacy.

Edited January 3 by Notabug

[Heathen]

47 minutes ago, Notabug said:

HIPPAA came into being in 1996, while ER was in its early seasons and almost every episode includes multiple HIPPA violations.  Remember Mark whining and complaining when Kerry stopped allowing patient names on the status board?  Linking identifiable elements to a diagnosis and location is about as big a HIPPAA violation as there is and Mark, of all people, having just recently completed his residency, should've been well aware of it and advocating on behalf of patient privacy.

The street-kid episodes are in season 13. It's HIPAA -- not HIPPAA -- and its date of origin was years before the episodes in question aired, not to mention that Mark's character was long dead at that point. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Finished S8 tonight for the sake of finishing it (and since the show is still marked as expiring on Hulu), and I wasn’t as impressed with the Lockdown episode as I may have originally been. I wonder what was more absurd…the brawl between the football players and the cheerleaders in the S7 premiere or the riot in Lockdown where guys were smashing the ER doors open with a gurney and Luka seemed to legit throw one or two guys against the wall and tackle them. It was so over the top painful.

The only part I appreciated was seeing Mark’s letter still on the bulletin board in one of the early scenes. Jerry calling into the news station was pretty hilarious, though. I also did not need the scene of Chen trying to go to the bathroom in the…whatever that contraption was.

 *Also apparently if you have the Hulu/Disney+ bundle, ER is listed on Disney+ now.

S9 is up next if I decide to continue. Time for Romano’s first encounter with the chopper and the redo of Abby’s annoying family, plus Luka becoming a sex addict and more not-so-greatest hits. I’m sure I’ll be losing sleep tonight trying to figure out what to watch next. /s 

[Notabug]

59 minutes ago, Heathen said:

The street-kid episodes are in season 13. It's HIPAA -- not HIPPAA -- and its date of origin was years before the episodes in question aired, not to mention that Mark's character was long dead at that point. 

Sorry for the confusion.  I was actually agreeing with you and pointing out another HIPAA violation from one of the early seasons.  As I noted, HIPAA became law just 2 years after the show's debut in  September 1994; so, by Season 13, should've been well-incorporated into the show's fabric.

For that matter, Abby trotting into an exam room because her old professor is a patient and then immediately assuming care for him and dictating a treatment plan was also a major violation.  Even if she recognized him, it was not for her to interfere in his care or even acknowledge his presence there.

I'm sure we could go through the entire series and pick out hundreds of violations.

Edited January 3 by Notabug

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Notabug said:

Remember Mark whining and complaining when Kerry stopped allowing patient names on the status board?

Yep, because it's when I planted myself firmly in Kerry's corner.  That doesn't mean I didn't later come to hate the way she did some things, but it was when I knew she had good ideas that were being dismissed because of her delivery, and, most importantly, that she was being derided and dismissed more than a male "outsider" would have been for implementing the same changes in an ER that needed them.

[txhorns79]

11 hours ago, Notabug said:

Remember Mark whining and complaining when Kerry stopped allowing patient names on the status board?

In fairness, Kerry's idea was pretty bad.  She used social security numbers to identify the patients, and plastered those numbers in a public place.  To me that seems like it is setting up patients to have their numbers stolen, even though I do understand the risks were different in 1996.

Can I also note something in Season 12 that I hate?  Pratt uses his own blood in a police blood test to protect a friend.  He later confesses to Luka, who rightfully suspends him, but instead of reporting what happened to the hospital or the state medical board, Luka insists Pratt spend a month (?) in Darfur to learn lessons and grow up.  While I thought sending Pratt into what could be a very dangerous situation as punishment was questionable, that Luka, of all people, is standing in judgment of Pratt was infuriating.  This was because in Season 11, Sam, does an unauthorized and unsupervised procedure with a rape victim so she can speak to the police, and ends up accidentally killing the woman.  In reality, Sam would likely lose her job and nursing license, and set the hospital up for a lawsuit. Instead, Luka covers for her and nothing happens.

On a positive note, even though I know it's not a joke original to ER, I did laugh at Ray gaslighting Weaver into thinking she never accepted his resignation when he wanted to take a month off to go to LA with his band.   

[Mrsmaul2021]

45 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

In fairness, Kerry's idea was pretty bad.  She used social security numbers to identify the patients, and plastered those numbers in a public place.  To me that seems like it is setting up patients to have their numbers stolen, even though I do understand the risks were different in 1996.

Can I also note something in Season 12 that I hate?  Pratt uses his own blood in a police blood test to protect a friend.  He later confesses to Luka, who rightfully suspends him, but instead of reporting what happened to the hospital or the state medical board, Luka insists Pratt spend a month (?) in Darfur to learn lessons and grow up.  While I thought sending Pratt into what could be a very dangerous situation as punishment was questionable, that Luka, of all people, is standing in judgment of Pratt was infuriating.  This was because in Season 11, Sam, does an unauthorized and unsupervised procedure with a rape victim so she can speak to the police, and ends up accidentally killing the woman.  In reality, Sam would likely lose her job and nursing license, and set the hospital up for a lawsuit. Instead, Luka covers for her and nothing happens.

On a positive note, even though I know it's not a joke original to ER, I did laugh at Ray gaslighting Weaver into thinking she never accepted his resignation when he wanted to take a month off to go to LA with his band.   

I think out of all the characters,  Sam did several things out of protocol and was never reprimanded.  From her child recklessly running around the ER, she attacking Luka during a trauma, she running off the job or she wanting to play Inspector Clouseau and killing a patient. Nothing ever happens to her, not even a stern lecture, nothing. 

 

ETA: The Ray part was funny especially when Weaver kept looking at him  but he wouldn't turn around. 

Edited January 3 by Mrsmaul2021

[Cloud9Shopper]

Good news for those of you who watch on Hulu…the expired tag went away so ER is safe there for now.

I think my rewatch strategy now that I’m done with S8 is to pick the episodes from 9-14 that I want to rewatch and then watch all of S15 to wrap it up. Will still post my thoughts from the episodes I end up choosing. 

[txhorns79]

Season 13/14 - I don't understand the character of Gates, or how he keeps his job.  I know the show has had a number of characters who start off as arrogant and reckless, but Gates takes it to such an extreme.  As an intern, he's running traumas alone, and when he screws up or goes against an attending's orders, he insists he is right regardless.  Finally, he publicly castigates the hospital patient he believed set off the bomb that caused the stampede at Lincoln Park, and ends up getting him killed.  It's just amazing to me how many chances he gets, even though he really does not deserve them. 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

27 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Season 13/14 - I don't understand the character of Gates, or how he keeps his job.  I know the show has had a number of characters who start off as arrogant and reckless, but Gates takes it to such an extreme.  As an intern, he's running traumas alone, and when he screws up or goes against an attending's orders, he insists he is right regardless.  Finally, he publicly castigates the hospital patient he believed set off the bomb that caused the stampede at Lincoln Park, and ends up getting him killed.  It's just amazing to me how many chances he gets, even though he really does not deserve them. 

 

I’m not planning to watch S13 and 14 ever again, but I will just say that I saw John Stamos on SVU last night as a “reproductive abuser” and he creeped me out there too, and I just kept thinking about how awful Gates was as well.

He was such an unnecessary addition to the show. 

[Olis93]

Gates and Brenner are two of my least favorite characters in the series. They were both so reckless and arrogant and never faced any consequences for anything. 

Of course by the time they came around the show was just a soap opera and any sense of realism from the early years was long gone. I swear ER had one of the worst drops in quality of any long running TV series. 

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

He was such an unnecessary addition to the show. 

Seasons 12-15 were an unnecessary addition to the show 😄

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, Olis93 said:

Gates and Brenner are two of my least favorite characters in the series. They were both so reckless and arrogant and never faced any consequences for anything. 

Of course by the time they came around the show was just a soap opera and any sense of realism from the early years was long gone. I swear ER had one of the worst drops in quality of any long running TV series. 

Seasons 12-15 were an unnecessary addition to the show 😄

I agree with all of this, except maybe I would have bumped S15 up a few years and had S12 be the last season. If not, though, it should have ended when Carter left or Mark died, IMO.

I think the big drop in quality is why the show isn’t still as popular to rewatch today even with it being on streaming. I’m considering stopping all future watches at On the Beach and going straight to S15. 

ETA: Curious and to spark discussion, why do you guys think it went so downhill and/or when? For me, yeah some of the plots were completely stupid (like Romano vs the helicopter), but I also feel like the second generation cast did not match the original cast in terms of chemistry or their ability to enjoy each other’s company.

I also feel like putting so much focus on Abby was a big mistake. She may be popular with the Tumblr crowd but I don’t see how the writers thought it was such a good idea to make the main character so miserable and whiny/full of drama. I didn’t even feel bad when Abby relapsed in S14 because the “poor, traumatized Abby and her hard life” trope had been beaten, stomped on, killed, and then we kept beating the dead horse. It got so old watching her be unable to take any accountability that I just didn’t care anymore.

 

Edited January 8 by Cloud9Shopper

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Olis93 said:

I swear ER had one of the worst drops in quality of any long running TV series. 

I did think the quality went back up in Season 15.  Angela Bassett is a force to be reckoned with, and she really was a dynamic presence on the show.  It probably also helped that Abby was finally written off the show. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I did think the quality went back up in Season 15.  Angela Bassett is a force to be reckoned with, and she really was a dynamic presence on the show.  It probably also helped that Abby was finally written off the show. 

The episode where Morris and Banfield get stranded in Omaha during the snowstorm was what really got me enjoying ER again. It really did feel like the old show I fell in love with. I’m one of the few people who could cry tears of joy when Abby leaves honestly. Everyone talks about how moving and beautiful her last episode was, and I was just sitting on my couch being like “God, go already…” 🤣

I also loved that they brought in Angela Bassett’s real husband to play her TV husband. They were great to watch, and I always appreciated the couples where one half of the couple didn’t work at County. (Except Susan and Chuck. That relationship was stupid and very out of character for Susan.)

[Olis93]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I did think the quality went back up in Season 15.  Angela Bassett is a force to be reckoned with, and she really was a dynamic presence on the show.  It probably also helped that Abby was finally written off the show. 

I agree that season 15 was a step up from seasons 12-14 but only because of the cameos from the original cast and the addition of Banfield.

The majority of the season however was still plagued by too much personal drama and lots of uninteresting episodes IMO. There are plenty of episodes from season 15 that I would never sit through again. 

[Olis93]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I agree with all of this, except maybe I would have bumped S15 up a few years and had S12 be the last season. If not, though, it should have ended when Carter left or Mark died, IMO.

I think the big drop in quality is why the show isn’t still as popular to rewatch today even with it being on streaming. I’m considering stopping all future watches at On the Beach and going straight to S15. 

ETA: Curious and to spark discussion, why do you guys think it went so downhill and/or when? For me, yeah some of the plots were completely stupid (like Romano vs the helicopter), but I also feel like the second generation cast did not match the original cast in terms of chemistry or their ability to enjoy each other’s company.

I also feel like putting so much focus on Abby was a big mistake. She may be popular with the Tumblr crowd but I don’t see how the writers thought it was such a good idea to make the main character so miserable and whiny/full of drama. I didn’t even feel bad when Abby relapsed in S14 because the “poor, traumatized Abby and her hard life” trope had been beaten, stomped on, killed, and then we kept beating the dead horse. It got so old watching her be unable to take any accountability that I just didn’t care anymore.

 

Too much personal drama and some really bad storylines/writing is was killed the quality of the show during the later years IMO. What was once a smart, engaging medical drama in its early years declined into a melodramatic soap opera that I could barely sit through.

Also the main cast during the later years was just not up to par with the original group. So many characters during that era that I either didn't care for or couldn't stand watching. 

Speaking of Abby, while I liked her character I did not enjoy the overwhelming focus on her and Luka with all their personal drama swallowing up the show. Abby and Luka changed the DNA of ER and turned it into something totally different.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Another factor in the deterioration of the show in my opinion was that there isn't consistency in the storylines, and writing.    Most shows have books about storylines, characters, and that way they have developed over the years, but this show doesn't seem to have done that.  After the first few seasons when the quality dropped off, there is no consistency or rational storyline.   

[Mrsmaul2021]

I have an unpopular opinion. I enjoyed seasons 10 and 12 more than I did season 8 and 9. Season 8 is so overrated to me. It was doom and gloom from beginning to finish with a few decent eps. They couldn't even let Mark go peacefully. They beat you over the head with the Rachel drama  

 

I found season 15..meh. Outside of the original cast returning as well as Archie/Claudia. After Pratt and Abby left, I didn't particularly care about anything else. 

 

 

Edited January 9 by Mrsmaul2021

[GiandujaPie]

I'm watching season 15 right now and most of these episodes I only ever watched the last couple of years as reruns on POP when I was working from home. While some of it is not bad, overall I don't like it. I like Angela Bassett but her character is awful. So much negativity. And when we first meet her husband, it seems like they barely have a marriage and suddenly she is trying to conceive a baby and then when that doesn't work, go right into IVF? I like the maturation of Archie as a person and a doctor but that's about it. Neela and Brenner make no sense, we are never shown why he is so infatuated with her. He clearly has no problem getting women to hook up with him and he was shown to be an absolute dick to the intern he did sleep with, so what was so special about Neela? And Dubenko continues to also be enthralled with her for no reason. I just watched the episode where Neela brought in another surgeon to do some cutting edge technique and Dubenko initially refused to come watch because he appeared to be throwing a jealous hissy fit. 

I don't get the appeal of either Sam or Gates personally, but to me, they made sense as a couple. They both came from backgrounds that wouldn't necessarily lead you to believe they would end up as successful doctors/nurses, but they overcame it and for better or worse, were able to make it. I know they are broken up for now but I think I remember that they get back together. They make more sense as a couple than Gates ever did with Neela. 

I'm looking forward to seeing Carter again soon. I don't think I ever watched those episodes when he comes back, except for the series finale. 

[Kel Varnsen]

23 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Season 13/14 - I don't understand the character of Gates, or how he keeps his job.  I know the show has had a number of characters who start off as arrogant and reckless, but Gates takes it to such an extreme.  

Stamos might not be my most hated character addition but he is easily in the top 5. His joining the show just seemed like they wanted a dark haired 80's heartthrob type of actor to have a bunch of inappropriate sex (wonder where they got that idea). Tom Cruise would never do it, Robert Downey Jr was on the verge of rebuilding his career (Zodiac started filming in 2005 the same year Gates first appeared), and even Charlie Sheen was already on two and a half men at that point so who else was left? Judd Nelson?

[Mrsmaul2021]

19 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Stamos might not be my most hated character addition but he is easily in the top 5. His joining the show just seemed like they wanted a dark haired 80's heartthrob type of actor to have a bunch of inappropriate sex (wonder where they got that idea). Tom Cruise would never do it, Robert Downey Jr was on the verge of rebuilding his career (Zodiac started filming in 2005 the same year Gates first appeared), and even Charlie Sheen was already on two and a half men at that point so who else was left? Judd Nelson?

 

 

This is possibly an issue with the later seasons. Relying on special guest stars and names to bring in numbers and accolades.  Funny thing is I felt  Stamos and John Leguizamo overstayed their welcome.  Yet I think they missed the boat with Kristen Johnston

[Kel Varnsen]

43 minutes ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

 

 

This is possibly an issue with the later seasons. Relying on special guest stars and names to bring in numbers and accolades.  Funny thing is I felt  Stamos and John Leguizamo overstayed their welcome.  Yet I think they missed the boat with Kristen Johnston

With Stamos it honestly seemed like they wanted their own version of Patrick Dempsey. Oh I also forgot Rob Lowe as an option for that type of actor, but at that point he was coming off West Wing I think and it seems like he took a bunch of failed shows where he was the star. No way he was going to join another show where he was part of an ensemble. Not until a few years later when all his shows failed and he joined Parks and Rec.

They also missed the boat with Busy Phillips. I can't believe how little they gave her to do. I saw a quote from her where she basically said she would have stayed on if they made her a regular cast member. But they kept her as like a reoccurring role so she walked. Probably for the best though sinc if she stayed on ER she might not have gotten Cougar Town (last season of ER ended April 2009 and CT started that September) and for awhile that was my favorite show.

[txhorns79]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:37 AM, GiandujaPie said:

I like Angela Bassett but her character is awful. So much negativity. And when we first meet her husband, it seems like they barely have a marriage and suddenly she is trying to conceive a baby and then when that doesn't work, go right into IVF?

I feel like once she makes peace with how her son died, she and her husband are able to move on.  (It was also nice to see Drs. Green, Weaver, Romano and Jerry!)  She definitely comes on strong, but I also think the attendings don't really have any interest in listening to anyone outside their circle and it's something of a toxic mix that eventually settles down.  (I also like how the episode is set in winter, but you can tell the location shooting in Chicago was likely done in summer, given the fully green leaf trees in the background of the shots).   

I'm also amused because the new surgical intern in the 15th season, Andrew, is English in real life, but playing American, and his real accent comes out quite a bit in many of his line readings.  Also, I was very confused about Andrew and Daria's relationship.  I initially thought they were a married couple, but apparently they are siblings?  At least that helps explain her crush on Gates.   

[Bastet]

I'm new to Hulu, and added this to my list to affect my recommendation algorithm (while fearing it would recommend a bunch of medical dramas inferior to this one I only moderately like to begin with); it doesn't come up in Expiring, but since that was reported here I've watched my favorite episodes (several from early seasons, plus Carter reading Mark's letter and everyone reacting) and now want to revisit Carter's arc with his mom. 

The "previously on" recap for her first episode, though, referenced Peter's nephew dying, so I had to go back and re-watch that  - "The Visit" - first because I remembered goddamn, that's gripping stuff.  Poor Jackie. 

It turns out that's also the first episode with Sally Field as Abby's mother, and goddamn again, but in a different way.  It was fine at first, but it ate the show, and just the memory of that irritated me.  That could have been a great storyline if reduced by at least half, because the actors sold it in that first episode -- Maggie as a victim of her disease and Abby as an utterly exhausted victim of what that disease made Maggie do over all these years.

Shifting gears, "Old cop habits are hard to break" about the loathsome Frank harassing unhoused patients is an example of why I hate him so much, and resent the show acting like that's just something to shrug off.

And something I noticed for the first time upon watching Jing-Mei talk with her baby daddy -- he's played by the actor who played Ricky in Boyz 'n' the Hood.  I don't know how I didn't recognize him before; it was clear as day as soon as the scene started this time around.  (As a connection, the actor who played Ricky's mom in that film, who was not very good other than in one scene, was enjoyable as Benton's competition back in season one.)

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

It turns out that's also the first episode with Sally Field as Abby's mother, and goddamn again, but in a different way.  It was fine at first, but it ate the show, and just the memory of that irritated me.  That could have been a great storyline if reduced by at least half, because the actors sold it in that first episode -- Maggie as a victim of her disease and Abby as an utterly exhausted victim of what that disease made Maggie do over all these years

….

And something I noticed for the first time upon watching Jing-Mei talk with her baby daddy -- he's played by the actor who played Ricky in Boyz 'n' the Hood.  I don't know how I didn't recognize him before; it was clear as day as soon as the scene started this time around.  (As a connection, the actor who played Ricky's mom in that film, who was not very good other than in one scene, was enjoyable as Benton's competition back in season one.)

The actor who played Frank (the father of Chen’s baby) turned up in The Resident as well as a neurosurgeon with a huge ego. He’s still as hot now as he was in 2000, though. 🤣

I’m starting my abbreviated watch of S9 tonight and plan on skipping the majority of the redo of Abby’s family, especially what happens at Carter’s grandmother’s funeral. Feels like her brother took the whole show with him when he fell into the grave, honestly. 

[Mrsmaul2021]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

 

It turns out that's also the first episode with Sally Field as Abby's mother, and goddamn again, but in a different way.  It was fine at first, but it ate the show, and just the memory of that irritated me.  That could have been a great storyline if reduced by at least half, because the actors sold it in that first episode -- Maggie as a victim of her disease and Abby as an utterly exhausted victim of what that disease made Maggie do over all these years.

Shifting gears, "Old cop habits are hard to break" about the loathsome Frank harassing unhoused patients is an example of why I hate him so much, and resent the show acting like that's just something to shrug off.

And something I noticed for the first time upon watching Jing-Mei talk with her baby daddy -- he's played by the actor who played Ricky in Boyz 'n' the Hood.  I don't know how I didn't recognize him before; it was clear as day as soon as the scene started this time around.  (As a connection, the actor who played Ricky's mom in that film, who was not very good other than in one scene, was enjoyable as Benton's competition back in season one.)

 

 

 I actually enjoyed Sally Field and her arc in season 7. I don't think Abby's brother was necessary in season 9.  I love Abby but we get it at this point. I think after Maura  and Sally's Emmy noms, they thought they could catch lightening in a bottle twice. 

 

And yes that was Morris Chestnut(Jing Mei's baby daddy). Nice that you pointed out that actress that played his mother in Boyz N The Hood was in season 1 (Tyra Ferrell) 

[GiandujaPie]

12 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

II'm also amused because the new surgical intern in the 15th season, Andrew, is English in real life, but playing American, and his real accent comes out quite a bit in many of his line readings.  Also, I was very confused about Andrew and Daria's relationship.  I initially thought they were a married couple, but apparently they are siblings?  At least that helps explain her crush on Gates.   

I was confused initially too, but then they said or did something that made me realize they were actually siblings instead, and then of course, her sleeping with Gates made it clear. 

Interesting that the actor who played Andrew was made to use an American accent. I always wondered why they made Neela a Brit, like Parminder Nagra. It would have made more sense for her to be an American as there are a lot of American doctors of Indian descent. And then of course, what was the point of Dr Simon Brenner being Aussie, other than the actor who played him was Aussie. I recently saw him in another show, Truth Be Told, where he was supposed to play an American detective, and you could hear his Australian accent come through a lot, and he just didn't have a convincing American accent. I'm guessing his American accent was worse back in the ER days and they really wanted the actor for some reason. So maybe Parminder Nagra couldn't do a convincing American accent? Has anyone seen her in anything where she plays an American? 

 

[Acmeproducts]

How well can Parminder Nagra pull off an American accent?