The Closer - General Discussion

[CrazyInAlabama]

I always thought that just as they withheld the fact that Clay had a more severe heart attack, and then had the minor one in L.A.  That Brenda's mother wanted to talk to Brenda because she was going to tell Brenda she was very sick, but they didn't want Brenda to know while the father was so ill.  But leaving it open to interpretation leaves all kinds of possibilities. 

I think that was why Clay didn't show up at the bedroom door, because he knew this was going to happen.  

Edited January 26, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think that was why Clay didn't show up at the bedroom door, because he knew this was going to happen.  

Interesting.  With how cheery he is once he's feeling better, and specifically how casual he is about "she said something last night about wanting to talk to you", I don't read him that way at all.  Especially since she remains haunted wondering what Willie Ray wanted to tell her; if it was that she was sick, and Clay either knew or suspected she was ill, he'd have told Brenda, "I think she wanted to tell you/us something was wrong with her, and waited until I was better."  She wouldn't still be thoroughly in the dark if Clay knew or had a good guess as to what it was.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Bastet

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm wondering if Clay knew from instinct, without his wife telling him she was sick.     I don't think she would want to worry him when he was so ill.  It could be she delayed surgery of her own, until Clay recovered, or she had a condition that needed treatment, but she waited too long.    I guess we'll never know, since all this time later no one on the show told.  Or it could be that the writers wanted it open ended. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Bastet]

27 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Or it could be that the writers wanted it open ended. 

Oh yes, James Duff has confirmed that.  It was part of getting Brenda to the point where she knew she had to walk away from the job that was consuming her - she constantly failed to make time for the living because she was obsessed with getting justice for the dead. 

Never knowing what her mom wanted to tell her, when now she'd give anything for just one more minute but wouldn't make time when she had the chance, is the backdrop that makes what Rusty says to her in the finale (about making a living listening to bad men, about only knowing how to care about people after they die, etc.) really get to her, and she finally tells Stroh she doesn't want to hear it, and then resigns.

[shapeshifter]

37 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm wondering if Clay knew from instinct, without his wife telling him she was sick.     I don't think she would want to worry him when he was so ill.  It could be she delayed surgery of her own, until Clay recovered, or she had a condition that needed treatment, but she waited too long.    I guess we'll never know, since all this time later no one on the show told.  Or it could be that the writers wanted it open ended. 

And the point was that you never know if there will be a "later" when you ask someone to wait -- which is all too real now.

[friendperidot]

with the main cast moving from this show to Major Crimes and I watch both, enjoy both and read both threads, I'm not sure where this was discussed. But, the supporting cast is just so good, the little things going on in the background of the main actors' scene. The other day, I think it was on The Closer because I think it was Irene Daniels, but there is a chance it could have been Amy Sykes. She was sitting at her desk while the main scene was going on and then I think it was Gabriel but it could have been Sanchez, see, I was really paying attention. Anyway, he walked past her and ruffled her hair. It was a moment that occurs everywhere and all the time between co-workers. I don't really see too much of that in other shows. 

[shapeshifter]

Just rewatched "Repeat Offender" (7/18/2011,  Season 7 / Episode 2) in which:

Quote

The police department is in the middle of a major restructuring, but all the distractions at the station do not deter Brenda and her team from investigating the murder of a seemingly innocent girl who was house-sitting at the time of the killing.

In most Law and Order-type shows, the over-privileged graduating senior would have watched enough of those Law and Order-type shows to know to ask for an attorney, especially since his family could easily afford one. Then he could have gotten off with something that would have allowed him to go to Berkeley in the fall instead of "another State Institution with a library" in exchange for giving Brenda the names of the wealthy, high school burglars.
Then the viewers and the parents of the victim would have been angry that the kid got off so easy. 

[Raja]

On 1/29/2021 at 10:16 AM, friendperidot said:

with the main cast moving from this show to Major Crimes and I watch both, enjoy both and read both threads, I'm not sure where this was discussed. But, the supporting cast is just so good, the little things going on in the background of the main actors' scene. The other day, I think it was on The Closer because I think it was Irene Daniels, but there is a chance it could have been Amy Sykes. She was sitting at her desk while the main scene was going on and then I think it was Gabriel but it could have been Sanchez, see, I was really paying attention. Anyway, he walked past her and ruffled her hair. It was a moment that occurs everywhere and all the time between co-workers. I don't really see too much of that in other shows. 

Just by the description of the actions it sounds like the early Julio on The Closer. He always talked but never moved forward in such situations and probably wouldn't ever move on to another after losing his wife.

[friendperidot]

it could have been Julio even though I said I was paying attention, that was a typo, I left off the "n't"

 

[MaryMitch]

I watched the 6th season episode "The Layover" yesterday - description from IMDB.COM:

Quote

Flynn and Provenza's double date with a pair of flight attendants gets Major Crimes caught in the middle of a pair of murders connected to drug trafficking, after Provenza finds a dead body in the woman's apartment.

I wanted to check on the actresses who played the flight attendants, and ended up spending over an hour on Youtube watching this hilarious series of short videos about "Sh%t Southern Women Say" (there are 16 in all):

Julia Fowler, the redheaded flight attendent, wrote and directed these.

Edited March 1, 2021 by MaryMitch

[proserpina65]

On ‎02‎/‎28‎/‎2021 at 9:24 PM, MaryMitch said:

watched the 6th season episode "The Layover" yesterday - description from IMDB.COM:

I love that episode almost as much as the early episode where Provenza and Flynn find the body in Provenza's garage.  For me, those episodes highlighting their quirky friendship are the best.

[CrazyInAlabama]

In "A Family Affair" with the half sister Sedona being adopted, she would have no claim on any of the family money the brother killed her for.   Children that are adopted out have no claim to birth parents money or property.    So the man had her killed just for his family name, which was already garbage ayway. 

I like the car chase in the following episode, "Death Warrant" where Raydor hits the bad guy right between the eyes with the beanbag gun.  

Edited March 9, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

In "A Family Affair" with the half sister Sedona being adopted, she would have no claim on any of the family money the brother killed her for.   Children that are adopted out have no claim to birth parents money or property. 

Right.  Unless the biological father provided for her in his will (and specifically; even if he listed "my children" as his beneficiaries, that wouldn't include her). There wasn't anything mentioned about that, was there?  (I mostly just remember the parts of the episode dealing with Sharon's investigation into the leak, but I don't think the dead guy even knew who Sedona was, and all she knew was his name.)

Duff & Co. are bad with estate law; the motive for murder in an episode of Major Crimes ("There's No Place Like Home") is also predicated on an inheritance that would not actually happen under CA (or any) law.

[Freudycat]

My favorite Joel moments:

1) “Home Improvement”, when Brenda and Fritz are arguing about what they’d have to give up in order to afford to pay Gavin, Joel is sitting at the dining room table, his back feet on the seat of the chair and his front legs on the table. He looks like a little kid watching his parents fight while he’s thinking “where the heck is my dinner, humans?” They even pan over to him to show his head moving back and forth, wondering what’s going on and why his food still isn’t on the table. Too funny! 
2) “Off the Hook”, with Tao and Flynn taunting Joel with pepperoni pizza in the background while Brenda speaks with detective Verrico.

That cat was one fine actor!

[Bobbin]

On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 7:56 PM, shapeshifter said:

And the point was that you never know if there will be a "later" when you ask someone to wait -- which is all too real now.

When whiny Brenda complained that she was "so tired," I just knew that there wasn't going to be a "later." 😢

[Bobbin]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:21 AM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm watching Rizzoli & Isles, and am having a hard time with watching it.    The actor who played Phillip Stroh on Closer, and Major Crimes is playing an FBI agent, and he's supposed to be a good guy, but I just can't get over his past as Stroh.     I know Billy Burke is a very accomplished actor, but I will always associate him with Stroh.   

I have the same problem with Jason Alexander since seeing "Pretty Woman." Some roles leave a more indelible impression than others. But Alexander's role on "Young Sheldon" with Iain Armitage doing Broadway songs has helped.

[Bobbin]

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 7:43 AM, MaryMitch said:

I think he (the father) just snapped, and I can't say I blame him.  I think Brenda's attitude was more a reaction to the blase attitude to his missing status the squad initially had due to his age.

I read an article last year about a place that tries to socialize children who have psychopathic personalities; those children were showing symptoms at a very young age, like 3 or 4. They are broken and can't really be fixed, but they can sometimes be taught to live in society. I don't think Sergei could be "fixed", and he may never have been able to control his psychosis.

That episode reminded me a L&O:SVU episode ("Cage") where young Russian orphans in foster care were kept in cages because they were so psycholigically damaged that they couldn't be trusted otherwise.

[bobalina]

If I were Fritz the moment I met Brenda's parents I would have run for the hills..

 

 

 

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

What I hated about the missing psychopath episode was how the parents made excuses for him for so many years, and allowed him to terrorize the daughter, and the neighbors for so many years.   Then, the parents trying to blame the daughter for killing him was despicable.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

What I hated about the missing psychopath episode was how the parents made excuses for him for so many years, and allowed him to terrorize the daughter, and the neighbors for so many years.   Then, the parents trying to blame the daughter for killing him was despicable.  

My family is pretty crazy (although not THAT crazy) so it wasn't that much of a stretch for me.
I mean, it's not like parents have to get a degree or diploma in parenting before they become parents (unfortunately).

[friendperidot]

I see that some readers of this thread like the Provenza and Flynn humorous episodes, those are my least favorite. Just goes to show that old phrase, "different strokes for different folks."

The episode with the adopted Russian psychopath always reminds me of my time working at the psych hospital for children and adolescents. They had a sex offender unit and it was always full. Lots of horrible and very sad stories there, the boys and in all the time I was there, only one girl was on the unit and it was a brief stay, she aged out. All the patients on that unit were there for months and even years, it's not an easy treatment fix. I will not be breaking confidentiality, as I can't remember most of the details, but we had one boy who was adopted from South America, he committed horrible acts on his parents and came to us after he started on the younger siblings. He was adopted late, I don't remember, but he was 3 or 4 and the damage was already done. His adoptive family was well to do, but money was not enough and we could not fix him. He went to a very long term facility in Montana, or Idaho or another western state, I believe it was some sort of youth ranch for very troubled children. Very sad because once he turned 18, they would have to let him go and he will be loose on society until he commits a horrendous crime and is sent to prison to hone his skills. I read a lot of charts of very sad cases and a lot of bad ones that will be turned loose on society. And this was one hospital in one city. I really don't like watching that episode.

 

[Keywestclubkid]

I never watched this when it first aired on TNT but I just finished the first season on hbogo tonight and I have to say I really enjoyed this show. The first season was solid great acting great guest stars solid writing. 

[Spartan Girl]

“War Zone” is on. I’m sorry, but Turrell Baylor deserved everything he got. He was a monster that not only murdered an old man and child, but also got his own brother and two innocent man—all soldiers—killed. And for all the legal storm his family dredged up on his behalf, he obviously cared more about covering his own ass than them.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

“War Zone” is on. I’m sorry, but Turrell Baylor deserved everything he got. He was a monster that not only murdered an old man and child, but also got his own brother and two innocent man—all soldiers—killed. And for all the legal storm his family dredged up on his behalf, he obviously cared more about covering his own ass than them.

True. 
Looking back on that arc it is a lot like a math equation with positive and negative numbers (people) of different values. The slimy lawyer and Brenda are almost of equal value at some points. He was just more misguided, perhaps.

[kathyk24]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

“War Zone” is on. I’m sorry, but Turrell Baylor deserved everything he got. He was a monster that not only murdered an old man and child, but also got his own brother and two innocent man—all soldiers—killed. And for all the legal storm his family dredged up on his behalf, he obviously cared more about covering his own ass than them.

I couldn't agree more. Pope was scum for letting Brenda take the blame for his bad decision. He's the one who told Brenda to give Turrell immunity rather than allow her team to investigate the case. I hope the old man's family sued the Baylors for wrongful death.

[Spartan Girl]

26 minutes ago, kathyk24 said:

I couldn't agree more. Pope was scum for letting Brenda take the blame for his bad decision. He's the one who told Brenda to give Turrell immunity rather than allow her team to investigate the case. I hope the old man's family sued the Baylors for wrongful death.

I hope so too. And yeah, none of it would have happened if Pope and that army guy hadn’t forced Brenda to do the immunity deal; she knew he was hiding details and they didn’t listen to her.

Also fuck that army guy for the sexist cracks he made about Brenda to Fritz.

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

True. 
Looking back on that arc it is a lot like a math equation with positive and negative numbers (people) of different values. The slimy lawyer and Brenda are almost of equal value at some points. He was just more misguided, perhaps.

”Misguided”? If you’re referring to Goldman, forgive me if I don’t take a lesson in the law from an opportunist who defends drug dealers and frequently manipulates the legal procedures for his own benefits, as we saw when he came back in “Major Crimes”.

[Bastet]

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is something we learn in kindergarten, and it's more, not less, important for cops to follow that rule. 

Maybe Baylor has never done one good thing in his life.  Goldman has done good and bad.  Brenda has done good and bad.  We don't tally those things when deciding legal culpability for a specific action, and it's a dangerously slippery slope to do so when deciding ethical responsibility.

The only reason the sate court judge reluctantly agreed he had to grant the motion for summary judgment in favor of defendants, despite there clearly being issues of fact needing to be tried, was because of the "persons unknown" statement against interest by the plaintiffs - the claim stated Baylor was killed by “person or persons unknown,” which is a statement against interest; they can’t claim the LAPD knew he'd be killed by his fellow gang members and, indeed he was, if they can’t actually establish that he was killed by his fellow gang members. 

When Gavin asked Brenda about all the additional claims in the federal suit, Brenda responded to each one of them not by saying she didn't do what is alleged or did but didn't intend it to result in death, but by detailing the victim's alleged crimes.  She knew what she was doing every time, and it was wrong every time.  There is no "Well, it's okay as long as the bad guy is a really, really bad guy" clause.

She was brought in to get admissible confessions, because of how many cases had been tossed out due to the misconduct cops engaged in to coerce confessions or plant evidence/offer false testimony when they couldn't.  And she did that.  But she had a very disturbing pattern of arranging extrajudicial executions when she couldn't.

In the end comes the chance to conduct one herself and take out her white whale Philip Stroh.  She doesn't, and walks away from him (and ultimately from the job that has become unhealthy for her).  Whew, because I could have been in real danger from the blood pressure spike if she'd killed him.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Bastet

[shapeshifter]

Thanks for the legal explanation, @Bastet

Glad Brenda didn’t kill Stroh so you didn’t stroke out! 😆🥰

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is something we learn in kindergarten, and it's more, not less, important for cops to follow that rule. 

Maybe Baylor has never done one good thing in his life.  Goldman has done good and bad.  Brenda has done good and bad.  We don't tally those things when deciding legal culpability for a specific action, and it's a dangerously slippery slope to do so when deciding ethical responsibility.

The only reason the sate court judge reluctantly agreed he had to grant the motion for summary judgment in favor of defendants, despite there clearly being issues of fact needing to be tried, was because of the "persons unknown" statement against interest by the plaintiffs - the claim stated Baylor was killed by “person or persons unknown,” which is a statement against interest; they can’t claim the LAPD knew he'd be killed by his fellow gang members and, indeed he was, if they can’t actually establish that he was killed by his fellow gang members. 

When Gavin asked Brenda about all the additional claims in the federal suit, Brenda responded to each one of them not by saying she didn't do what is alleged or did but didn't intend it to result in death, but by detailing the victim's alleged crimes.  She knew what she was doing every time, and it was wrong every time.  There is no "Well, it's okay as long as the bad guy is a really, really bad guy" clause.

She was brought in to get admissible confessions, because of how many cases had been tossed out due to the misconduct cops engaged in to coerce confessions or plant evidence/offer false testimony when they couldn't.  And she did that.  But she had a very disturbing pattern of arranging extrajudicial executions when she couldn't.

In the end comes the chance to conduct one herself and take out her white whale Philip Stroh.  She doesn't, and walks away from him (and ultimately from the job that has become unhealthy for her).  Whew, because I could have been in real danger from the blood pressure spike if she'd killed him.

I know this, but when I watch tv, I don't have to actually want it to be that way in the fictional story.  So I felt nothing for Baylor or his family, other than the brother he got killed, and I would've counted Stroh's death as self-defense had Brenda fired another couple shots and finished him off.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is something we learn in kindergarten, and it's more, not less, important for cops to follow that rule. 

Maybe Baylor has never done one good thing in his life.  Goldman has done good and bad.  Brenda has done good and bad.  We don't tally those things when deciding legal culpability for a specific action, and it's a dangerously slippery slope to do so when deciding ethical responsibility

 

Not arguing against that. I’m just saying that I will never feel an ounce of pity for Baylor, and the world was a better place without him.

Also, Goldman had no leg to stand on making a living calling the police corrupt when he was prostituting his intern to spy on Gabriel. He didn’t really care about the law, he had no problem bending it for his own purposes. Arguably you could accuse Brenda of the same, but like you said before, she realized what the job was doing to her and walked away.

[CrazyInAlabama]

In "Family Affair" where the Phoenix detective's daughter died, why did Pope say that the adopted daughter would have been entitled to part of her biological father's estate?   Children that were adopted out aren't entitled to biological parent's  estates, except in very few cases.    So the daughter Sedona, wasn't a threat to the other children's estate.    

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

In "Family Affair" where the Phoenix detective's daughter died, why did Pope say that the adopted daughter would have been entitled to part of her biological father's estate?   Children that were adopted out aren't entitled to biological parent's  estates, except in very few cases.    So the daughter Sedona, wasn't a threat to the other children's estate.    

Yeah, we talked about this a few months ago, and I noted that the writers seem to have a real knowledge gap (or just a don't let the truth get in the way of a good story philosophy) when it comes to estate law, because there's also an episode of Major Crimes were the motive for murder is an inheritance that would not have actually happened.

(They could have easily salvaged it in this one with someone telling the biological half brother that, oh BTW, dumbass, she wouldn't have been entitled to a share of the estate even if she filed a claim, so you murdered her for nothing.  Instead they just have the mother point out that Sedona hadn't asked for any money.)

[Bobbin]

In 4:10 "Time Bomb", I realize handguns aren't very accurate at a distance, but hundreds of rounds from a dozen different directions and not a single shot could accidentally hit the kid in the head or hands?

Edited May 30, 2021 by Bobbin
Corrected Ep#

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Bobbin said:

In 4:10 "Time Bomb", I realize handguns aren't very accurate at a distance, but hundreds of rounds from a dozen different directions and not a single shot could accidentally hit the kid in the head or hands?

The 1997 North Hollywood Bank shootout as seen in the docudrama 44 Minutes. The bad guys armor did not cover their hands, feet or head and it took a rifle armed SWAT officer to get good enough aim to hit a foot at point blanc range. It is estimated between their pistols and shotguns the LAPD patrol officers and detectives fired over 650 rounds at the duo.

[MaryMitch]

I watched "Red Tape" today - this is the episode where Gabriel shoots a murder suspect (self-defense; first appearance of Sharon Raydor). I always wonder about those "wadcutter" bullets; they seemed to be pretty shallowly embedded in the victim, so how did they kill him? I'm pretty ignorant about bullets so I googled it and couldn't reconcile the appearance of the bullets on the show with what I'm seeing on the internet.

Also a couple episodes later was "Half Load", where a man outside a church was shot by stray bullet from an attempted car theft. I always tear up when Brenda tells Mr. Blake (Don Franklin) that his stray bullet killed a man. His reaction at realizing he had killed a man was heartbreaking.

[Raja]

20 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

I watched "Red Tape" today - this is the episode where Gabriel shoots a murder suspect (self-defense; first appearance of Sharon Raydor). I always wonder about those "wadcutter" bullets; they seemed to be pretty shallowly embedded in the victim, so how did they kill him? I'm pretty ignorant about bullets so I googled it and couldn't reconcile the appearance of the bullets on the show with what I'm seeing on the internet.

Also a couple episodes later was "Half Load", where a man outside a church was shot by stray bullet from an attempted car theft. I always tear up when Brenda tells Mr. Blake (Don Franklin) that his stray bullet killed a man. His reaction at realizing he had killed a man was heartbreaking.

The purpose for such bullets, adopted by most US police by the mid 80s in favor of military full metal jacketed ammunitions', is to stop and dump all of its energy into the body instead of punching through (an exit wound) with energy left over. It doesn't matter how deep it matters where exactly you are hit and if that damage is lethal before medical aid can save a victim.

I should add that wad cutter in itself is not the better controlled expansion types used for most non military self defense loads  but also not full metal jacket

Edited July 14, 2021 by Raja

[Crs97]

I just watched the episode in which Brenda gets Fritz to give her all the information on El Jefe in exchange for the feds getting to man the stakeout, but then let’s him go to the wrong place so that she can arrest the suspect the FBI hopes to flip against the drug cartel.  I know Fritz is problematic, but I hate Brenda in this episode.  Hate her.  He is absolutely right that if the tables were turned she would have kicked him out before the sun set.  I can’t remember if she ever really apologized to him in a later episode because she certainly doesn’t here.  He really should have dumped her.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I just watched the episode in which Brenda gets Fritz to give her all the information on El Jefe in exchange for the feds getting to man the stakeout, but then let’s him go to the wrong place so that she can arrest the suspect the FBI hopes to flip against the drug cartel.  I know Fritz is problematic, but I hate Brenda in this episode.  Hate her.  He is absolutely right that if the tables were turned she would have kicked him out before the sun set.  I can’t remember if she ever really apologized to him in a later episode because she certainly doesn’t here.  He really should have dumped her.

Yeah, she was horrible in that one. 

[proserpina65]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, she was horrible in that one. 

She was, but that's kinda what I liked about this show, that the main character was far from perfect and had a lot of flaws which the show didn't hide.  I'm glad Fritz didn't split after that episode, but I would've understood completely if he had.

[Raja]

28 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

She was, but that's kinda what I liked about this show, that the main character was far from perfect and had a lot of flaws which the show didn't hide.  I'm glad Fritz didn't split after that episode, but I would've understood completely if he had.

Fritz not leaving was showing that he was a more balanced man, unlike Brenda who would do anything for "her case". It hurt her that she had to depend upon Mexican justice, but at least she laid out a case for them for example. She just had something wrong with her on that level like Dr House or many of the  Sherlock Holmes

[shapeshifter]

54 minutes ago, Raja said:

like Dr House or many of the  Sherlock Holmes

I had never before thought of Brenda as a type of Sherlock Holmes in that sense, but you are right.

[andromeda331]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:16 AM, proserpina65 said:

She was, but that's kinda what I liked about this show, that the main character was far from perfect and had a lot of flaws which the show didn't hide.  I'm glad Fritz didn't split after that episode, but I would've understood completely if he had.

I liked that about her too. Except in episodes like this one where her flaws torpedo Fritz's case. Her reactions are one of my favorite things. Like her reactions in To Protect and Serve from Chief Pope telling about Provenza and Flynn taking over a crime scene to finding out about the Sky Box tickets. 

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, Tabbygirl said:

Reading through this thread, I’m surprised by a lot of the negative comments about Gabriel. He was my fave and I liked how they handled making him the leak while not making him the leak at the same time. I’ve been on a The Closer binge that includes rewatching the series and reading as many old articles about the show as I can. While reading an article about Taylor being written off Major Crimes, Duff stated that he probably should have killed off Daniels when the actress wanted to leave. Apparently the actress left because, per Duff in this article, she didn’t want to be part of an ensemble cast. Anybody know what she’s done since leaving The Closer?

I saw the character of Gabriel more the way you did, @Tabbygirl, but in the Pilot episode, he was kind of a misogynist, and then when he and Daniels broke up, they kind of made him look like that again. So, if Gabriel was a real person, I wouldn't like him, because, in real life, people are who they are. But the fictional character of Gabriel was not always the same person. The likeable version of Gabriel was great, so I just "forgot" about the Bad Gabriel during an episode featuring Good Gabriel--but I can totally understand why a lot of viewers would not want to do that. In some really old TV shows when screen resolution wasn't very good, sometimes they had the same actor portray different characters. It's almost like the character of Gabriel was the high-resolution version of that. 

[Bastet]

17 hours ago, Tabbygirl said:

Anybody know what she’s done since leaving The Closer?

IMDb is always available to answer this question to a degree, giving TV and film credits; here is Gina Rivera's page.  For stage, commercial, and some off-screen credits, more research is required, generally more work than a mildly curious person is interested in undertaking.

[Tabbygirl]

To Serve With Love is airing right now. I always loved the Provenza and Flynn episodes, which was sorely lacking during the Major Crimes run.

[Tabbygirl]

So last night I watched the episode in which there was an attempted hit on Hobb’s life — don’t recall the title of the show — but during it Gavin questions the squad to determine who the leak is. It’s Provenza who puts together the reasons for the questions, tells the squad as a whole, and says he finds it insulting. To which Brenda agrees.

My question is: do you think Duff and company knew who the source of the Leak was at that time? Because one of the questions Gavin was asking them, ‘Have they discussed the case with anyone outside of Major Crimes?” I don’t remember now how Gabriel answered that but if he was always planned to be the leak he would have answered yes, with his girlfriend. I don’t believe Gabriel wouldn’t have honestly answered that question.

Of course at that time no one on the team nor the audience knows Gabriel is even dating anybody. So I think at the time of the episode they still didn’t know who the leak was going to be. What does everyone else think?

[andromeda331]

20 hours ago, Tabbygirl said:

So last night I watched the episode in which there was an attempted hit on Hobb’s life — don’t recall the title of the show — but during it Gavin questions the squad to determine who the leak is. It’s Provenza who puts together the reasons for the questions, tells the squad as a whole, and says he finds it insulting. To which Brenda agrees.

My question is: do you think Duff and company knew who the source of the Leak was at that time? Because one of the questions Gavin was asking them, ‘Have they discussed the case with anyone outside of Major Crimes?” I don’t remember now how Gabriel answered that but if he was always planned to be the leak he would have answered yes, with his girlfriend. I don’t believe Gabriel wouldn’t have honestly answered that question.

Of course at that time no one on the team nor the audience knows Gabriel is even dating anybody. So I think at the time of the episode they still didn’t know who the leak was going to be. What does everyone else think?

I don't think they had yet. I don't think Gabriel would have lied either. But also if they had decided it would be Gabriel's girlfriend I think they would have either introduced her sooner or had Gabriel mention her threw out the season. His shock and outrage would have been felt more if we saw or at least heard him dating and falling in love. Instead its just all out of the blue. Gabriel is suddenly dating someone long enough that she's already met his family and he's decided to introduce to the squad. They also made her pretty unlikeable. It was hard to see why Gabriel had dated her for so long. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't think they had yet. I don't think Gabriel would have lied either. But also if they had decided it would be Gabriel's girlfriend I think they would have either introduced her sooner or had Gabriel mention her threw out the season. His shock and outrage would have been felt more if we saw or at least heard him dating and falling in love. Instead its just all out of the blue. Gabriel is suddenly dating someone long enough that she's already met his family and he's decided to introduce to the squad. They also made her pretty unlikeable. It was hard to see why Gabriel had dated her for so long. 

Even though having Gabriel’s girlfriend be The Leak felt like a retcon because her existence wasn’t even mentioned until (I think) the episode before the reveal, I was able to buy it because the acting and writing was good enough —especially the reactions of the rest of the team. 

[Bastet]

With how far ahead he planned Brenda's exit, and already knowing he was going to do Major Crimes, I can't imagine James Duff waiting until late in the game to decide who the leak was.

Gabriel makes perfect sense both from a characterization standpoint - he was the one of the three in the car who cared that they'd done something horrible, so the most likely to have expressed that regret to someone, but he's loyal, so he never would have intentionally let Peter Goldman in on Brenda's answer to the $20 million question, so he can be an inadvertent leak - and from a logistics standpoint, that if you're going to replace an additional character for the new show, Gabriel is the most likely to leave with Brenda.  Other than being sad to lose the actor, I suspect it was a pretty easy decision to make once producers and writers started brainstorming.

If they'd brought Anne in when they started dating, that would have been contemporaneous with the lawsuit, and too many audience members would figure she was involved.

[Tabbygirl]

On 1/29/2021 at 1:16 PM, friendperidot said:

with the main cast moving from this show to Major Crimes and I watch both, enjoy both and read both threads, I'm not sure where this was discussed. But, the supporting cast is just so good, the little things going on in the background of the main actors' scene. The other day, I think it was on The Closer because I think it was Irene Daniels, but there is a chance it could have been Amy Sykes. She was sitting at her desk while the main scene was going on and then I think it was Gabriel but it could have been Sanchez, see, I was really paying attention. Anyway, he walked past her and ruffled her hair. It was a moment that occurs everywhere and all the time between co-workers. I don't really see too much of that in other shows. 

The thing I noticed in both shows is how Tao says “Okay” kinda as both statement and question. The two instances—one from each show that I can think of—is: from the Closer, Fritz and Brenda are arguing about whether Pope still has Brenda’s back and Tao calls with some info for Brenda and she says to Tao “Thanks for having my back” to which Fritz replies “Tao doesn’t count” and Tao hearing this just says “Okay” and then launches into what he called about. On the opening episode of Major Crimes, when Tao calls Provenza from the crime scene and Provenza hands the phone to Sharon, Tao is like “Okay” before telling her what he needs to. As you said @friendperidot it’s the little things of continuity that makes the supporting characters really strong and is appreciated by us fans.