S02.E02: X

[maraleia]

 

Flint gives Dufresne some advice. Silver must make himself indispensable. Eleanor is asked to depose a captain. Rackham gets ambitious.

 

[attica]

...Which could be the plot of every episode so far.

[Neurochick]

Oh Flint, you are one bad mofo.

[Morrigan2575]

Billy!

Max needs to stop because I'm really not liking the shit she's pulling with Ann. Rackham had a perfectly agreeable offer that benefits all of them. If she continues her power play, I want it to fail miserably.

I hate Ned Lowe, not in a love to hate him sort of way, I straight up hate this guy. I hope Vane destroys him.

Loved everything with Flint and Silver. Flint is a BAMF. Cold, calculating and and made of pure steel.

Great episode.

[Eriu]

Eleanor, Low is fucking crazy. He beheaded his first mate in your bar with a knife. Kill him. Kill him a lot. Hire people to kill him. Entice Vain into it. Whatever. You should have killed him the moment he threatened you in your own bar, but for heaven's sake do it NOW.

Rackam, if you really are OK with Anne and Max getting it on, you could have waited till they were done. Hell, even if you just want them to think that you are OK with it, you still should have waited. Though I am excited about seeing him finally do something proactive and not just be kicked around.

I'm glad to see that Dufresne realizes that if Flint was able to pull off that kind of ridiculous gambit, then he really is the man you want in charge. I would have tried to negotiate staying on as first mate or whatever, but Flint's brains are the ones you want in charge.

Also, glad to see Billy is not dead.

[Neurochick]

I'm watching again and....Billy!

[Sharkatefonz]

Hot DAMN!!! Meeks, dude we hardly knew you. That was brutal. I too loathe all about Lowe and his equally psychotic crew.

The theme of this episode for me was all about schemes.

Jack tried to beat Max at her own game by being an accepting third party, or accepting of Max as a third, but I do think she'd prefer to usurp him. That might backfire on her a bit, but I'm not sure who will win out in the long run.

Vane saw the brutality before him but didn't intervene. Not that it would be so smart or beneficial to his own well being at that moment, to get in the fray (I'm not sure how many of his men were around to back up Vane) but it certainly worked to his advantage to let Eleanor dangle.

I don't feel bad for Dufresne because he and Degroot even talked about what Flint said and yet they still chose to endanger their men, because they wanted to prove their power. I thought Dufresne was arrogant and passing the buck on his own responsibility in what happened.

Flint used his brain again, banking on Dufresne going against him and not being prepared to act appropriately. He couldn't know for fact that their men would die, or that they'd even fail in their pursuit.

He used Dufresne freezing to his advantage, and the men were the ones who chose to vote Flint back in, even after everything else they already blamed him for.

Flint and Silver are made of all things awesome.

Billy Bones!!! Another great episode. And I always love me some Randall!

[ArizonaAdmirer]

Oh Billy, Billy, Billy....I knew he would be captured by the crew of the Scarborough and tortured :(

 

I don't understand why Eleanor didn't just have Lowe killed after he dissed her in her tavern.   She knew he was bad news after seeing the bloody barrels.  I'm also surprised she only relied on one man for security.

 

Max better be careful- her attempt to manipulate Anne could backfire she could end up losing all she's gained.

 

Flint was looking really hot in this episode.

 

As for Dufresne, he's showm himself to be an idiot, and he's toast.  The best course of action would be to go hang himself or jump off the ship now that he's given the captaincy back to Flint.  If the crew doesn't kill him first, does he really believe that Flint will let him live, after seeing what Flint did to Billy and Gates?

[WatchrTina]

 

I hate Ned Lowe, not in a love to hate him sort of way, I straight up hate this guy. I hope Vane destroys him.

Yes, a thousand times yes.  That scene with his quartermaster was just . . . ghastly.  He needs to die in a fire.

 

I'm loving this show because it really keeps me guessing.  Was that Billy?  I assumed it must be but he was looking so rough I wasn't positive.  And I knew Flint was playing the quartermaster but I had the play backward.  I assumed he would take Flint's advice and then Flint would call him out as a wimp and offer to lead the crew in the taking of a ship, and be successful at it, even half-manned.  Good thing I'm not a writer because the way it played out was so much better.  Callous and self-serving with wanton disregard for the  life of the crew, but better in terms of story.

 

I don't think I understand John's plan to make himself invaluable to the crew.  How does being a shit-stirrer who rats out every infraction of the crew to the rest of the crew supposed to make the crew want to keep him around?  I just don't get it.

 

Speaking of John's plan (and I can't believe I'm going to ask this) but why would someone bugger a female sheep? A milk goat has to be female.  I believe sheep-shagging was a well-established pasttime among certain elements of the rural population in this time, but sheep buggery?  That's a new one.  Perhaps John exaggerated to make the tale as bad as possible.

 

I am just loving Jack Rackham.  That scene with the two women in bed was golden. Especially since the look on his face afterward revealed how much of his indifference and bravado was an act.  I think it's clear that in this relationship, Jack is the one who loves, while what Anne feels is gratitude, obligation and loyalty.  Poor Jack.

 

So . . . what exactly was that officer in the bar suggesting about Hamilton and his wife?  Was he hinting that Hamilton would be indifferent to his wife sleeping around -- that perhaps she is known to take lovers -- because he's gay and cannot meet her needs himself?  Otherwise it seems an odd thing to say.

 

I'm kinda hating Max.

 

 

As for Dufresne, he's showm himself to be an idiot, and he's toast.  The best course of action would be to go hang himself or jump off the ship now that he's given the captaincy back to Flint.  If the crew doesn't kill him first, does he really believe that Flint will let him live, after seeing what Flint did to Billy and Gates?

Actually I think Dufresne might be okay.  Billy got tossed overboard because he knew something that Flint wanted kept secret (he knew about the letter seeking a pardon on Flint's behalf and speaking of and impending "betrayal" of the crew.)  Gates died because he was going to take his ship and leave, making it impossible for Flint to take on the Man 'o War and effectively bringing the whole enterprise to an end.  But Flint doesn't have any secrets left -- at least not any that Dufresne knows.  All Flint's dirty laundry is out in the open and the crew still voted him back in.  So Dufresne is probably safe. But the crew may no longer want him as Quartermaster.  In that role he serves as their advocate with the Captain and they choose who that want for that.  He may have lost all their respect with that botched hunt -- especially because of the way he froze on deck.

 

And now I'm going to contradict myself.  Are we sure Flint tossed Billy overboard?  We never saw it happen.  Just before it happened Flint asked Billy what was in the letter and Billy replied "I think you know."  But I don't think Flint did know.  I think his lady-friend went behind his back when she wrote that letter.  If he didn't know for sure, why would he kill Billy?  It's just possible that Billy really was swept overboard by accident.

Edited February 1, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think I understand John's plan to make himself invaluable to the crew. How does being a shit-stirrer who rats out every infraction of the crew to the rest of the crew supposed to make the crew want to keep him around? I just don't get it.

I think the whole point was to get rid of the sheep lover so silver could take his position on the ship?

[WatchrTina]

 

I think the whole point was to get rid of the sheep lover so silver could take his position on the ship?

That does not make sense to me because the ship is so short-staffed that any able-bodied seaman would be welcome.  There's room for John in the crew.  They just don't want him because he's a thief and a liar.

 

In the tale John told from his experience as an orphan, the kids became addicted to hearing all the dirt on the other kids from that one boy with the unfortunate ears.  I can well imagine that happening in an orphanage where they don't have the option to leave and where they were starved for entertainment.  But on board a ship, populated with armed men, that sort of thing could escalate to fighting and killing pretty quickly.  Seems like Flint will have to put a stop to John's reports pretty quickly so as to maintain order.  Then why would they want to keep him around?

 

 

I don't understand why Eleanor didn't just have Lowe killed after he dissed her in her tavern.

I think she explained that when she was talking to Meeks.  She acknowledged that the last time she tried to take out a captain, it nearly cost her her position.  And at the very end of the show she admits that if she went after Low his crew would retaliate.  Eleanor has a lot of power but she can't just openly kill anyone who crosses her.  It's like what Anne said last season when she wanted to kill the guy who had been abusing Max.  She went to Eleanor for help because she knew that she (Anne) would be suspected if anything happened to him because the crew knew they had a beef between them.  These pirate crews seem very keen on taking vengeance so you really have to be careful about who you kill.

Edited February 1, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ybrik]

Yay Billy is alive. Boo Billy is being tortured. I wonder what he is going to be used for.

 

Oh Eleanor you are in so much trouble. You are stuck having to get help from one homicidal madman to stop another one. I don't see this ending well for her. She is going to have to make a deal with a devil and she won't even have the Spanish gold from Flint.

 

Poor Mr. Meeks. However, on this show being quartermaster is a dubious position that doesn't end well.

 

Glad Rackham is moving forward with getting himself back on his feet. Liked him saying that he just wants Anne to be happy and at least trying to be okay with Max and Anne. Of course whether or not this is true, it is good he is making the effort. Right now he needs Max and her 'talents' and he needs Anne. He has a goal in mind and he will do what he needs to do to become Captain Jack. Can't wait to see that.

 

I think Silver was stirring the shit was a means to itself. The more he turned the crew against each other the better chance he has of finding a place for himself as opposed to them being united against him. As he said it's not getting them to like him but getting them to hate each other as much or more.

 

Max is playing with fire but damn she must be some kind of lover. She had Eleanor paying for exclusive rights when the series began and now has Anne Bonny sneaking out in the middle of the night to get some. However she needs to remember not to overplay her hand. I mean Eleanor kept coming back but when pushed into a corner Eleanor choose her own ambitions over Max. She really doesn't want to test Anne the same way. The results could be worse this time.

 

Enjoyed seeing Dufresne and also DeGroot getting played by Flint. He was two-three moves ahead of them the whole time. Loved the look the crew had when he walked by them after the failed attempt to take the other ship.

[WatchrTina]

I think my favorite part of John's scheme was watching Flint's reaction to it. Flint is a master manipulator but this maneuver has even him stumped.  I loved the "WTF" look on his face when he said, "Good luck with . . . whatever this is" and then the begrudging look of "huh, that worked" after the sheep-shagger got punched.  In fact, Flint's facial reactions to John's actions have been highlights of the first two episodes.

Edited February 1, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Sharkatefonz]

Are we sure Flint tossed Billy overboard?

I'm so glad you brought this up. I never believed he threw him overboard. I never believed there was enough time for him to dive toward Billy and take him overboard, without also going over.

In episode 4 they make a point of showing the way Flint watched Billy lead the crew in raising the boat. I thought he was proud of him, even though he was leery of Billy at the end of that episode. Flint is very observant, and knew how high in regard Billy was held by the men and by Gates.

I just never believed that with all he planned, that he would give the men a reason to turn on him. Because as he said to Barlowe, '...if not for dumb luck...'

I took that to mean that he thought Billy fell, but I think Billy jumped, after watching Gates defend Flint to the crew that night; Billy looked deflated. I think he didn't trust Gates in that moment, and he jumped, rather than wait for Gates to side with Flint.

I could be totally wrong. But what better way for all to unravel for Flint, than the Shakespearean tragedy of lost loyalty by Gates in the home stretch, over the one terrible thing he didn't do?!

Edited February 1, 2015 by Sharkatefonz

[NorthstarATL]

I knew last episode that Eleanor simply didn't have the back-up to throw her weight around the way she was, and Vane had made a point of not offering that service unless there was something in it for him. You can have all the rules or laws you want, but if there's no enforcement, they are meaningless.

  Flint pulled it off! That's some heavy-duty schemeing, but it's what we've come to expect! Silver's plan still makes little sense to me, but his antics are amusing.

  Saw Tom Hopper's name in the credits, so I knew who was on the shore! Hope to learn more next time!

  I was less than thrilled that the storyline for the only female pirate revolved around her discovering her sexuality, so when Jack interrupted them with his plan for the three of them to work together on forming a new crew I was all for it! I think it would be only fair if Jack were given the same opportunity for exploration now that Ann might be otherwise occupied.

[luckyroll3]

Eleanor would have earned all my respect and admiration if she had taken up a sword and challenged Ned Lowe herself!  (Not everyone can be a Nikita!)  But I guess is all her years bossing people around and pissing them off, she hasn't had the time or the need to learn to defend herself, what with all her handlers.  That dude is nuts, and she needed to put a bullet in his head, right then and there.  Looking forward to the psycho vs psycho battle between Ned and Vane.

 

Flints manipulation of Dufresne was effortless.  And Silver's manipulation of the crew was entertaining. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by luckyroll3

[WatchrTina]

 

That dude is nuts, and she needed to put a bullet in her head, right then and there.

I know!  I kept wondering why someone didn't shoot the crazy MoFo. I kept thinking of the scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark when Indiana is threatened by a guy who's clearly an expert swordsman and Indy just shoots him.  I wanted that for Ned.  Then I remembered the scene last season where Gates opened his jacket to the doorman to show that he is unarmed before entering Eleanor's bar, so I'm guessing there is a strict "no guns" policy.  

 

I had actually thought it was a "no weapons" rule (except for the guards' swords) but Ned had a dagger.  Do we think Ned smuggled the dagger in?  That would have added to the threat when he took it out and laid it on the bar.  And can I just say that Ned doing the awful deed with a dagger and not a sword is what made it all the worse. It was like that scene out of Reservoir Dogs where someone saws a guy's ear off with a knife -- the effort and the time it took are what made it so awful.

 

Now I can't remember (probably because I'm trying to block the whole scene from my mind) but did Ned fight off the guard (who had a sword) using only a dagger?  If so, damn, that's pretty bad ass.  If not -- if he just drew his own sword -- then the rule must be "blades are okay, but no guns."  I suppose that's a reasonable rule for a pirate bar -- bystanders can get hurt in a gunfight but it's less likely in a knife fight.  And knife fights between patrons must be tolerated otherwise why didn't security stop Ned?  Were they just frozen with shock?

Edited February 1, 2015 by WatchrTina

[RockyHorror64]

Okay. I'm loving season 2 so far, but my hubby and I were wondering if it's only us. We can't make out what anyone is saying on this show. It sounds like they are all talking with marbles in their mouth. I don't know if it's due to trying to talk piratey or with some accent. It's annoying. Max will be killed shortly. Sure, she is pretty, but she is playing with the Devil and hurting a lot of people who will not be happy or are not happy. Why is it that Max (Jessica Parker Kennedy) is so clean looking, loving that makeup she's wearing by the way while Anne Bonny looks exactly the way people back then would have looked, kind of dirty as they had no bath water to wash themselves. Why are all the men dirty, but yet the brothel ladies so clean? It's driving us nuts! Same w/Eleanor. Loving how clean she is, hair all done, conditioned and shiny, makeup looking really good. I know it's done for tv, but if you are going to have at least one woman look the part then they should all look the part. No body was that perfectly clean back then, no body! Especially brothel workers! I mean damn. They are cleaner than some subway passengers I ride to work with. Not kidding.

 

That new pirate dude Low needs to be killed. Man! That was a brutal scene in Eleanor's bar. I feel for her a bit. It must be rough being so independent and acting all tough by cursing so much in a man's world or should I say a pirates world. These men would never allow a woman (no matter who she is) curse at them or be boss. At least not from what we know of the history. I do hope either Bane or Flint will assist her though.

 

Love how Flint and Silver get along and how well the actors play off of one another.

 

I still have a soft spot for Jack. Man. He deserves so much better than he's getting.

Edited February 1, 2015 by maraleia
incorrect terminology

[Neurochick]

Lowe is a sadist.  He gets off on violence.  He's also showing his hand because people must wonder why he's disrespecting Eleanor the way he is, since most of them need her to sell their stolen goods.  In the first episode, I don't think Lowe intended to kill that entire crew.  It wasn't until he saw that Lord Ashe's daughter/wife/sister/whatever, was on board, and he knew he could get mucho bucks by kidnapping her, that he killed the entire crew.  Now, he's doing what he wants because he knows his prize will bring him more money than anything he could sell to Eleanor.  

 

I'm bad but I laughed out loud when Lowe sauntered out the bar backed up by his equally psychotic/sadistic crew.   They looked like a demented grunge group/boy band; all those guys were ripped and probably under all the blood and grime are pretty hot.  

 

Is Lowe supposed to be blind in one eye?

 

Flint is one bad mutha.  He totally read Dufresne; he basically told him, "this ship ain't ready to take on a prize" and Dufresne was like, "Oh yeah, I'll show you."  So Flint just sat back as Dufresne basically hung himself.  He walked right into that one.

 

Silver knows that everybody, no matter who or where they are, likes daily gossip.

[Eriu]

 Silver knows that everybody, no matter who or where they are, likes daily gossip.

And not only that, but if they are too busy worrying about and beating on each other, they don't have the time or desire to mess with him.

[WatchrTina]

Well, I decided to watch the show again, this time on my computer with headphones on so here are a few more reactions.

 

Bear McCreary's music is always great but I really noticed it this go-round, especially when the sail is sighted and Mr. Dufresne has to decide whether to go for it or not.  It really hypes ups the excitement of the moment.

 

The other thing I noticed that does a really good job of building the tension is Flint's explaining to John the importance of showing the colors at just the right moment and then later explaining what is going through the mind of the captain as his ship is boarded by pirates.  You basically have two choices for things like that:  voiceover (which they use in "Outlander") or exposition which they use here.  It makes the Flint-John relationship that much more important because it gives the writers a natural way to deliver information to the viewer by having Flint (the expert) explain things to John (the novice.)

 

Speaking of the colors -- Flint says that they have to sink the ship because if they don't no one will ever surrender to "that flag" again.  Do you think by that he meant a pirate flag in general or the flag they were flying in particular?  I ask because in the former case the sinking of the ship is in the best interest of all pirates whereas in the latter case it's a much more selfish decision.  Every pirate flag seems to be different and the captain of the captured ship certainly seemed to be aware that that particular flag was associated with Captain Flint (he couldn't possibly have recognized the ship.)  Anyway that all got me thinking that the flag must belong to a crew, not a person.  Men come and go from the crew but the reputation of that particular crew lives on (rather like an NFL team) and when a crew keeps the captain in place for a very long time (as was the case with Flint) then the banner becomes associated with the captain.  So when Flint orders the ship sunk he's acting in his own self-interest and that of the crew, protecting their collective reputation and preserving the fear that reputation engenders in their victims (which, as he point out, is the only effective weapon against men in these waters.) That's my theory anyway.

 

Other random thoughts:

 

I loved when Lord Hamilton says "Strange pairs, Lieutenant.  They an achieve the most unexpected things." Then the show cuts back to Silver and Flint.  I think that statement is the theme for the whole season.  Look at all the odd pairs:  Flint & Silver.  Flint & Mrs. Barlow.  Eleanor Guthrie & Charles Vane. Jack Rackham & Anne Bonny.  I'm not going to say Anne & Max because I think that pairing is a fuck-up just waiting to happen.

 

Can I just say how much I love the gravelly-voiced men in this show?  Vane, of course, is the poster child but Flint's voice drops an octave when he needs it to as well.

 

Remember last season when Vane asked Eleanor if she was surprised that he was the only behaving himself during a meeting?  I thought of that during this episode because Vane, of all people, is actually the voice of reason in this episode.  He give Eleanor good advice and I even think he was sincere when he said he cared for her.  It's interesting how people's characters are subtly shifting in this season.  Or maybe they're just being revealed.  Vane is growing on me (didn't like him last season.) Eleanor is more manipulative (witness that last scene with Vane where she plays both the if-you-care-about-me card and the prize-of-great-value card.)  John is more interesting and more sympathetic (I frankly despised him last season but I can't get enough of the John-and-Flint show now.)  The flashbacks reveal a lot about Flint and Mrs. Barlow.  Now if they would just make Anne more interesting because she remains an enigma to me and quite one-dimensional (and I, like Jack, find it hard to believe she did everything she did to set Max free simply because she wanted to fuck her.)

 

BTW in my earlier post I said I thought weapons were not allowed in Eleanor's tavern.  Well, I got that wrong or enforcement is really lax because upon second viewing I spotted that Ned Low's men were in the tavern with guns (that's why Eleanor's security men could do nothing to stop the decapitation.)  That scene I recollected where Gates showed he was unarmed must have been just before going upstairs to meet with Eleanor and not depicting a requirement for entering the tavern.

 

The make-up crew did a great job with John Silver.  During his last "report" his face was swollen but not yet bruised from all those recent blows, which was very realistic.

 

Can I just go on record as saying I really like the samurai who is a member of Flint's crew.  He's a bad-ass.

Edited February 1, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ybrik]

Yes Flint meant very specifically his Jolly Roger AKA pirate flag. Most captains had their own design. The most famous/common is the skull and crossbones. The next would be the skull above crossing swords. If you look up either flag you would find some very familiar names associated with them.

[meep.meep]

I liked the episode - lots of pirating and not lots of talking strategy in Nassau.  And Billy Bones!

 

The English captain seemed to know it was Flint's ship - he asked Dufresne "are you him?"  So, the flag must be recognizable as Flint's flag, even when it's flying on a Spanish Man o'War.  Which, in terms of fire power, is like bringing a tank to a joust.

[Princess Consuela]

Am loving this season so far - Flint & Silver continue to be my favorite part of the show.    Flint's reactions to Silver's plan were priceless

 

I also think it was genius how Flint got the ship back - he used his brain & basically told Dufresne what to do - knowing he'd do the opposite & then sat back & watched it all unfold

 

Wow Ned is one sadistic man - he needs to die sooner rather than later

 

And Billy's alive (I had a feeling he was but it was good to actually see that he was) - I don't think that Flint pushed him overboard - be interesting to see what really happened & to see when/if Billy ends up back with the crew how things go with Flint

[DarkRaichu]

Eleanor would have earned all my respect and admiration if she had taken up a sword and challenged Ned Lowe herself!  (Not everyone can be a Nikita!)  But I guess is all her years bossing people around and pissing them off, she hasn't had the time or the need to learn to defend herself, what with all her handlers.  That dude is nuts, and she needed to put a bullet in his head, right then and there.  Looking forward to the psycho vs psycho battle between Ned and Vane.

 

Flints manipulation of Dufresne was effortless.  And Silver's manipulation of the crew was entertaining. 

Not sure how she would have been expected to do that as her #1 bodyguard / swordsman was no challenge for Lowe and was killed in the process.  Also, it was a no gun bar and Lowe's crews basically outsmarted her other guards by sneaking in with their guns when everyone was watching the beheading.

Edited February 3, 2015 by DarkRaichu