S05.E12: Poina ʻOle (Not Forgotten)

[BW Manilowe]

When a neurosurgeon is assassinated just before performing surgery, Five-0 uncovers the shocking truth behind the disappearance of four reform school boys 40 years ago. Also, McGarrett's Mercury Marquis is stolen by an unlikely culprit.

Original Airdate: January 16, 2015

SOURCE: http://cbspressexpress.com/cbs-entertainment/shows/hawaii-five-0/releases/view?id=41628

[dwmarch]

One thing in particular jumped out at me in this episode: Grover should not have to deal with his daughter's trauma through heartwarming talks. 5-0 has access to psychiatric services. They even mentioned it this very episode! And since every single member of the team has been targeted in their personal lives one would think their (surviving) families would have access too! Trauma counseling should be part and parcel of the job.

 

I must have missed something about the neurosurgeon. She wouldn't leave it alone? How is this now? Was she calling the murderer and bugging him? How did he even know what was going on?

 

I'll give them a pass on that homeless kid having such toned arms. They did say he had only been on the street a short time. It's great that he has a job now but where is he going to live? And how many dudes does it take to run a shrimp truck anyway? How many even fit once Kamekona gets in there? But let's suppose last week's shrimp contest has caused a surge in Kamekona's popularity.

 

Danno told the killer he would die in jail unloved but I think if he really wanted to twist the knife he would have mentioned the grandson.

[Trey]

 

Danno told the killer he would die in jail unloved but I think if he really wanted to twist the knife he would have mentioned the grandson.

 

I was thinking that too - should have told him that once his grandson found out what the old man had done, he wasn't going to love him any more.

[Roselle]

I am really torn over this show. I know it's escapist and not to be taken too seriously (and yes, I do realise the irony that here I am dipping into forums to read, discuss and dissect the pros and cons....!) and I can hand wave the horrible procedural holes everywhere and the unbelievable ....well, everything really, because I am wholly invested in the team and particularly the bro-mance. I do like the fact that it gives depth to its characters with back story and angst and family feels but my criticism is that the writers just seem to have real trouble balancing it all.

In this episode for example, there were three really heavy handed story-lines bubbling along under the actual whodunit case, designed, I think, to make us appreciate the men (cos this week it wasn't Kono's turn) beneath the cops. So we had Lou struggling with his fatherhood role, we had Chin struggling with his wife's loss and Steve ...well, just being marvellous again. Thing is, it all felt so very laboured. I mean, surely Lou would already have got his girl into some sort of therapy, would have been advised about how to support her and has already been shown to be a good dad, so why the heart-searching 'what shall I do?', 'how can I help her?', 'just know I will always be there for you' stuff. Way too much time was given to it IMO. I'm not sure I care that much about this daughter and any viewer who hasn't followed throughout the seasons wouldn't give a toss.

God knows, Chin has reason to grieve but the former gangster goading him from a hospital bed about killing poor Malia was like a Pantomime villain. Cue long shots of DDK's oh-so-contained anger/angst/pain face.

And Steve's altruism? well, it was sweet but, again, to have this vulnerable boy's story playing alongside the old murder of other kids felt so...oh, I dunno...obvious?

The case of the week was a good one but was rather lost amongst all the other stuff being shoved into our faces. The investigation aspect was underplayed.  I understand there are some good 'Ohana in trouble' episodes to come and maybe this was an attempt to build up the 'we care for each other' momentum in preparation but really, it was an odd kind of balance.

I realise I am probably being unfair here because yes, I'll admit, if the angsting had been Danny's I know I'd have sympathised more (we'll see when the much vaunted e18 comes along! :)) but I do think the writing is very patchy on the show.

Thoughts?

[Raja]

I'll give them a pass on that homeless kid having such toned arms. They did say he had only been on the street a short time. It's great that he has a job now but where is he going to live? And how many dudes does it take to run a shrimp truck anyway? How many even fit once Kamekona gets in there? But let's suppose last week's shrimp contest has caused a surge in Kamekona's popularity.

 

 

Remember Kamekona is diversified. You can start up on the truck and then transfer to the tourist helicopter flight crew. And if he ever goes back to the confidential informant role there is his weapons stash that has to be maintained and kept hidden.

[betsyboo]

I'll give them a pass on that homeless kid having such toned arms. They did say he had only been on the street a short time. It's great that he has a job now but where is he going to live? And how many dudes does it take to run a shrimp truck anyway? How many even fit once Kamekona gets in there? But let's suppose last week's shrimp contest has caused a surge in Kamekona's popularity.

This was my confusion. I kept waiting for them to reference where he was going to live - and was groaning/anticipating that he was going to live with steve. I also anticipated that Samantha was going to see him and have that be an immediate meet-cute where Grover could flex his protective dad muscles.

[buckboard]

Danny got all in a snit that Steve left Grace alone on the street corner when he went off to chase after his stolen car.  Granted he could have just called 911 right away to look for the car, but it wasn't as if they were running in a slum part of town.
 

Then, when they arrested the killer as he was picking up his grandson from the bus, Danny took grandpa away and just left the kid on his own.  Didn't even have a chance to say goodbye or to ask one of the women nearby to look after the kid.

 

[benteen]

I think Danny had a right to be upset.  Steve did leave Grace alone to run after his car and then because he can never admit he's wrong, blames Danny for it and never apologizes.  Let's not forget him also pulling police resources over his stupid car.  Though I did love him calling Danny "Marathon Man."

Edited January 18, 2015 by benteen

[MegK]

Good points, Roselle. I agree the writing needs some work, although I suppose that's true for pretty much every (network) TV show these days. I thought the case itself was an interesting one, and the side-plot about Steve's car was humorous, and had a nice twist when the perp was revealed. The kid was a little TOO humble and apologetic, but the scene gave Steve a chance to bring an unexpected softness.

 

I don't understand why they felt the need to bring up Lou's daughter's trauma after all this time, and especially why they'd devote three scenes to it. We barely know her -- why should we care? Chi McBride is a good actor, and they need to give him something more interesting to do than fret over his daughter. I also thought the Steve-Danny banter seemed kind of odd in this episode. There's no reason a 12-year-old can't be left to her own devices for a few minutes -- they were acting like she's 4. And Steve telling Danny he's not doing his duty as a father because he won't run with her? Huh? I don't know, their "teasing" just seemed to have a sharper edge than usual. And that treacly scene at the end of "half-baked-cookie" Steve surveying his friends and agreeing he's fixed broken people? Ugh.

 

One complaint I have with virtually every episode: I wish someone would tell the actors to stop starting their lines with an unnecessary "So." "So. I tracked down our witness." "So. I found the car." "So. We found out where the kidnapper's hiding." I've noticed all of them doing it at some point, but Grace Park is particularly annoying in that regard. I know she's given the rather thankless task of delivering most of the exposition, but still. Kono started three or four sentences with "So" last night (possibly throwing in one "OK. So." for variety). If an actor were saying, "like, ya know" in every sentence, surely someone would point it out to them, so I can't understand why someone doesn't mention the "So" thing. Sigh. It bugs.

[Roselle]

 

I don't understand why they felt the need to bring up Lou's daughter's trauma after all this time, and especially why they'd devote three scenes to it. We barely know her -- why should we care? Chi McBride is a good actor, and they need to give him something more interesting to do than fret over his daughter. 

I agree completely.

 

... when they arrested the killer as he was picking up his grandson from the bus, Danny took grandpa away and just left the kid on his own.  Didn't even have a chance to say goodbye or to ask one of the women nearby to look after the kid.

 

 

Yes, I noted that too but I guess we have to assume the scene cut away. I hope so anyway!

:

I wish someone would tell the actors to stop starting their lines with an unnecessary "So."... Sigh. It bugs.

 

Yeah, it really does. I think they do it to try and give the impression of a continued, flowing conversation. But...yeah...enough!

[Raja]

Hot teen boy in Steve's ward meets hot teen girl in Lou's daughter equals plotline in shark jump 101.

[BW Manilowe]

Good points, Roselle. I agree the writing needs some work, although I suppose that's true for pretty much every (network) TV show these days. I thought the case itself was an interesting one, and the side-plot about Steve's car was humorous, and had a nice twist when the perp was revealed. The kid was a little TOO humble and apologetic, but the scene gave Steve a chance to bring an unexpected softness.

I don't understand why they felt the need to bring up Lou's daughter's trauma after all this time, and especially why they'd devote three scenes to it. We barely know her -- why should we care? Chi McBride is a good actor, and they need to give him something more interesting to do than fret over his daughter. I also thought the Steve-Danny banter seemed kind of odd in this episode. There's no reason a 12-year-old can't be left to her own devices for a few minutes -- they were acting like she's 4. And Steve telling Danny he's not doing his duty as a father because he won't run with her? Huh? I don't know, their "teasing" just seemed to have a sharper edge than usual. And that treacly scene at the end of "half-baked-cookie" Steve surveying his friends and agreeing he's fixed broken people? Ugh.

One complaint I have with virtually every episode: I wish someone would tell the actors to stop starting their lines with an unnecessary "So." "So. I tracked down our witness." "So. I found the car." "So. We found out where the kidnapper's hiding." I've noticed all of them doing it at some point, but Grace Park is particularly annoying in that regard. I know she's given the rather thankless task of delivering most of the exposition, but still. Kono started three or four sentences with "So" last night (possibly throwing in one "OK. So." for variety). If an actor were saying, "like, ya know" in every sentence, surely someone would point it out to them, so I can't understand why someone doesn't mention the "So" thing. Sigh. It bugs.

I basically agree that Grace is 12, shouldn't be treated like she's 4, & should be OK to stay by herself for a bit, if needed.

But I also get that Steve & Danny's (in particular) overprotectiveness of her in show canon is probably supposed to tie back to the events of the S2 ep (I think Ep 215) in which an ex New Jersey cop partner/training officer of Danny's, whom Danny helped send to prison for Corruption, came to Oahu, kidnapped Grace for revenge, & was gonna kill her if Danny didn't kill Rachel's (his ex/Gracie's Mother) new husband, Stan, supposedly for causing Danny & Rachel's breakup.

Granted, Gracie was only around 9, in canon, when it happened, but she was way too trusting of the guy who took her (he knew a lot of stuff he could use to get her to trust him) & they didn't have a code word if someone unexpected tried to pick her up somewhere, etc.; she was the *perfect* target. And she, Grover's daughter, & the team's other loved ones, can still be a target of "enemies" of Five-0. So, yeah, I get the overprotectiveness--especially when it comes to Gracie (& Grover's daughter)--'cause she's (they've) already been directly in harm's way 'cause of her father's job.

And Danny has been pretty overprotective of her since, at least initially panicking when she's out of his sight... even when she's with someone he trusts, like his original girlfriend, Gabby (the museum curator). See the end of Ep 217 for that example. Steve had to talk him down. Danny also blamed himself for the kidnapping, 'cause the perp was his friend, originally, & he was responsible for putting the guy into prison for being a "dirty cop".

As for Steve, when Grace was kidnapped & they hadn't yet found her he was completely frantic in the team's office--as if Gracie was his daughter, not Danny's/his daughter as much as she is Danny's (to be fair, she's special to the WHOLE team, not just Danny)--while overseeing the investigation & Gracie's intended safe recovery. So, yeah I also totally get why Steve behaved as he did before he left her. Plus there was the "If something happens to you, Danno's gonna KILL me!" factor.

I have to say the "So", etc., thing doesn't bug me. Even though it may not be the best grammar, it's the way "real" people tend to talk.

[BW Manilowe]

I'm sorry, but I had THE most overprotective mother on the face of the earth. More overprotective than Danny. And even I walked my own self to school when I was twelve. Seriously? Five minutes on a nice, suburban street in broad daylight? Are you kidding me?

Steve takes pity on a criminal. They didn't smack the hell out of a dude sitting shackled and helpless to a chair. Plus, Danny calling Steve a half-baked cookie and saying, "This is why I love you, babe."? Is this H5-0?

The case was way too convoluted and serious for H5-0.

As for the boy, I also noticed his nice haircut. Then he said he'd only been on the streets for a few months, so I let it go.

If it's noticeable, the "so" thing may not be how "real" people talk. When writing, which scripts are written, we have more of a tendency to say "so." As a result, I'm convinced it's a writing thing, not a natural speaking thing.

Also can't believe Lou hasn't invested in some therapy for his daughter. Seriously.

I agree. At this point maybe outside assistance/therapy for Grover's daughter is probably indicated, & would've been sought out by any other parent/family by now (like Danny &/or Rachel, maybe even "Step-Stan" given his apparent wealth that's been alluded to on the show; especially given that Gracie was so much younger than Grover's daughter when she was kidnapped).

However, they seem to be playing it that the way of Grover/his family is to handle stuff like this "within the family", without outside help from "strangers" (psychologists, etc.), perhaps even to the detriment of the person needing the help.

Yes, that kind of (or more than kind of) contradicts the idea of Grover's "venting" about it with Chin, Steve, or any other Five-0 member; but it also (to me) isn't contradictory, because the Five-0 team treats each other as if they are family (& Chin & Kono actually are family--cousins--in this version). So, to Grover, talking to Chin (or Steve, or whomever) is still perhaps "keeping it in the family", the extended, non-blood version of it anyway. Besides, the team is as aware of Grover's daughter's kidnapping as they are of Gracie's, & I'd argue they were affected, as a team, by both.

The only other thing I'm thinking is we may eventually learn that perhaps the nightmares/Grover's daughter's continuing trauma may be caused by something she's keeping to herself about what happened during the kidnapping (Could Ian--Nick Jonas's character--have raped her, maybe? We were never told she went to a hospital/doctor for any kind of exam after she escaped/Wo Fat let her go.)... Or maybe she's having trouble dealing with Wo Fat having murdered Ian in cold blood in front of her face.

[Bishop]

I didn't think the writing or the story was bad.  In fact, I was thrilled to have the episode focused primarily on the main core cast.  The guest stars did what they were suppose to do which was tell the story that pulls in Five-O.  Unlike the gumshoe detective episode where that character and the medical examiner dominated.  Last night's episode was the opposite.  I haven't seen Uncle Steve and Gracie interact nor the entire Five-O team working together for an entire case or episode since the Aunt Deb episode.  

 

I agree with those about the Grover/daughter side story.  Why so much time devoted to her?  I guess I wonder why the writers feel this need to focus on Grover's daughter's PTSD, a character we don't really know, when many fans have been waiting to see ANY episode of Steve's PTSD after what Wo-Fat and his mother did to him.  All I could think of while I was sitting there watching Grover talking to Chin was "Why isn't anyone asking Steve about how he's doing since everything that he's been through in the last six months?"  Do the writers think it's an unimportant story to tell?  Maybe, but then why try and show the PTSD story of Grover's daughter?  I like the character, but I'm sorry, I have no investment in her.  I've noticed that the usual happy-go-lucky Steve McGarrett seems to be MIA lately, which I think is a good thing.  It's the only indication I have as a viewer that Steve is not okay, but it would be nice for the writers to SHOW me that in a scene or two.  Maybe I'm the only one that feels that way.

 

As for Danny calling Steve a half-baked cookie, and calling him "babe," he's done that many times before.  So yes, it is Five-O.  Danny has compared Steve to a marshmallow in the past with a soft middle, and both guys have their bromance with calling each other "babe" at different times, although it's generally Danny's thing.  I actually enjoyed the Steve/Danny banter yesterday, but I loved that moment in the end where there was no snark, just honesty between them.  Danny was right in that Steve does seem to like to fix "broken toys."   

 

I'm not sure why the writers keep bringing back the Delano boys to torment Chin, but I'm guessing that may tie in later to a storyline for him.  I don't mind when the writers remind the audience of the history of the characters, and I like when guest stars return to build on stories.  

 

Lastly, as for Kamokona and the kid, I really liked seeing Steve sort of mentoring the kid in the end, but I hope that the kid doesn't become some regular.  I DEFINITELY don't want to see any romance between him and Grover's daughter (See, I don't even know her name).  Since the writers never actually showed a meet-cute moment between them, I'm going to guess that it isn't going to happen.  I think the entire ending scene had more to do with Steve realizing that he does like to fix things that are broken (since almost everyone sitting at the table is/was broken), but he really needs to take a look at himself - or rather the writers should - since he's a broken toy himself.

 

Overall, I really enjoyed the episode.  It was great to have the Five-O team working again together since the holiday break.  We don't get a new episode next week, but it's back again the week after - just in time for February sweeps.  

Edited January 19, 2015 by Bishop

[benteen]

I'm hoping the kid doesn't become a recurring character myself.  They have enough on this show (almost all of them very good) and they don't need to keep crowding up things.  If they want to visit it one more time, that's fine.

[BW Manilowe]

I'm hoping the kid doesn't become a recurring character myself. They have enough on this show (almost all of them very good) and they don't need to keep crowding up things. If they want to visit it one more time, that's fine.

Lenkov's already Tweeted the kid's coming back:

https://twitter.com/plenkov/status/556290147231100928

He further/later Tweeted, which I didn't copy the link to (actually couldn't since I'd already copied the other 1), that he's in the teaser/"cold open" (pre-main titles scene) to Ep 518 (which is the ep that's still in production, to the best of my knowledge).

[Vermicious Knid]

I don't mind if the kid makes an occasional appearance, but please don't make him a regular.

 

The main story, I assume, was inspired by the Florida School for Boys and the exhumation of the secretly buried children.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/28/267899476/55-bodies-are-exhumed-at-reform-school-site-in-florida

[BW Manilowe]

I don't mind if the kid makes an occasional appearance, but please don't make him a regular.

The main story, I assume, was inspired by the Florida School for Boys and the exhumation of the secretly buried children.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/28/267899476/55-bodies-are-exhumed-at-reform-school-site-in-florida

According to this week's edition of Five-0 Redux, an "ep recap/review/look at Hawaiian culture as it relates to the ep & series" blog which appears every Saturday (it used to run every Tuesday, when the show aired on Mondays) in the Honolulu Pulse section of the Honolulu Star-Advertiser newspaper (The blog's written by a now-former Honolulu resident & Hawaiian native with professional ties to all kinds of writing & teaching), it's thought to be more likely inspired by the 1946 escape of 4 boys who were residents of the Waialeʻe Industrial School in Hawaii. See the 6th paragraph down in the linked blog, I think under the pic of Masi as Max & Scott as Danny from the ep (I tried to copy & paste the relevant paragraph/info but couldn't, possibly 'cause of the coding on that page or something):

http://www.honolulupulse.com/2015/01/five-0-redux-never-forget/

But yeah, it could've also been inspired by the Florida story, depending on the writer's frame of reference/amount of research for the script's storyline, etc. And possibly also inspired by more stories of this type we haven't even heard about yet.

Edited January 19, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Mittengirl]

So glad to see I wasn't the only one wondering where the kid is going to live. Would Steve be a mandated reporter and thus be required to contact CPS about a kid living on the streets?

Unpopular opinion here, I am guessing, but I don't find Danny's overprotective parenting endearing. I have found it rather creepy ever since the episode where he and Grace where at the Hilton pool and Danny called one of Grace's 10ish-year-old classmates a degenerate. Who thinks that way about a little boy?

As for Steve leaving Grace to go chase his car, since they had finished their run, I would assume they were close to home; why not just tell Grace to go there? And I would be shocked if Danny would allow her out of his sight without a cellphone, so she would have been able to call 911 if necessary.

[Kel Varnsen]

Not a bad episode (better than the grizzled old PI one) but the main plot was kind of weak. It seemed like if the old guard guy had just killed the old inmate (and not the doctor) he probably would have gotten away with it. That said I still don't understand how the guard figured out that the other guy had confessed to the doctor.

 

And since it was such a light plot it seems that is why they had all the other stuff going on. The stuff with Grover and his daughter was ok,  I mean I suppose she could be in therapy and still having issues. I mean it is not like therapy is some kind of magic cure. 

 

The stuff with Danny's daughter was fun. My favourite line was Steve wondering what he was going to be like when he was an actual grumpy old man. And while a 12 year old in a residential neighborhood by herself is no big deal, considering that she has actually been kidnapped (and Danno's bro has been killed recently) I can kind of see why he would be over protective. That said anyone who saw her out running with Steve probably knows that is not a guy you mess with.

[Bishop]

Not a bad episode (better than the grizzled old PI one) but the main plot was kind of weak. It seemed like if the old guard guy had just killed the old inmate (and not the doctor) he probably would have gotten away with it. That said I still don't understand how the guard figured out that the other guy had confessed to the doctor.

I believe Steve mentioned that the killer worked at the hospital as a janitor for a number of years and so they speculated that's where he got access to the doctor's schedule and also saw the doctor and the inmate talking.

 

The stuff with Danny's daughter was fun. My favourite line was Steve wondering what he was going to be like when he was an actual grumpy old man. And while a 12 year old in a residential neighborhood by herself is no big deal, considering that she has actually been kidnapped (and Danno's bro has been killed recently) I can kind of see why he would be over protective. That said anyone who saw her out running with Steve probably knows that is not a guy you mess with.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't mess with him, and I do give Danny a break because he's always going to be protective of Gracie.  He's been that way since day one.  I don't even think he argues with Steve to be a pain in the butt.  It's just part of their "thing" in the morning, like drinking coffee.  I am hoping to see more bonding moments with Steve and Danny.  That has always been my favorite part of Five-O because it helps the audience to learn more about the characters when they talk to each other.  Chin and Kono have always been open about their feelings or what they are going through, and they talk to each other all the time.  Steve is MUCH more shut-down and even moreso since the Wo-Fat incident, and Danny has been quiet since his brother's death.  So I hope for more conversations between them - and I mean conversations, not arguments.

 

Steve was really pissed about his car the entire episode, and it took me a bit to realize it was all about the car.  I mean he was even mad at the perp's house who booby-trapped the place, and I couldn't understand why seemed to angry until I realized that it was still because of the car.  Nicely done.  That helped with the final scene with the homeless kid because Steve walked into his office ready to pounce on the person who stole the car, but then he saw this young kid crying, hungry, and all the rage went right out of him.  I'm okay with the kid making appearances every now and then as long as he doesn't get storyline given to him.  I think it's fine the way it is, but I wouldn't mind seeing Steve form a  relationship with this kid.  His father took care of different people over the years too, including Chin and Elle, and so it would make sense for Steve to follow in that same path.  That being said, I don't want the kid to get excessive screentime because the show needs to focus on the core four.  THAT is what makes Five-O for me.  Friday's episode overall, minus Grover's daughter's issues, was the perfect balance of what the show should be.  There was lots of the core four, and then the side characters I love - Gracie and Kamekono (and Max), and then it all wrapped into the latest crime of the week.  I liked it.

[Clanstarling]

I was waiting for the entire episode for someone to mention therapy for Grover's daughter. On the other hand, I didn't think of those scenes as being about the daughter, but being about Grover, and I liked them. I found the scene with Chin pretty moving (with the exception of no one mentioning therapy).

 

With the homeless boy, I thought for sure Steve would find a foster home for him. The job at the shrimp shack won't pay for a place to live.

 

As for the grandson, I did notice Steve talking to the boy before they cut to the interrogation scene. I assumed they took the boy with them and called the parents or child services.

 

As for starting sentences with "So," I've noticed people doing this for the last year or so on talk shows, interviews and in lots of other situations. I think it's a common speech tic these days. Bothers me, but then now and again I find myself doing it as well.

[HurricaneVal]

The return of "Steve, the Science Guy!" forgives a lot in this episode.  A lot.  I love, love, love "Steve, the Science Guy!"  More, please...

 

I liked how the writers twisted our preconceived notions.  The prisoner who had done such bad things, who was slated for the brain surgery, ended up being a very sympathetic character.  The loving grandfather we saw in the opening scenes, ended up begin one cold-ass rat bastard.

 

I kind of like Steve taking on the rehabilitation of the street kid as his project.  It will do him good.  Steve's mom "died" when he was that kid's age, and his dad sent him away shortly afterwards, so he had a lot to identify with in that kid.  I think Steve wants to make a path of redemption for the kid so he can find some himself.  I think that shows a nice symmetry, and I hope the writers are going there.  The kid just doesn't need to develop some sort of secret power and become a regular on the team.  That would be bad.  But if he shows up once in a while at headquarters, delivering shrimp shack lunches and glances at the big screen and says "Yo brah!  I know that dude, he's lolo bats nuts, brah!  Why you lookin' for him?" and contributes, that would be OK.  Occasionally.  I also recall the kid who threw the brick through the police station window to get the cops to pay attention to his story about his missing Dad.  Catherine even pointed out to Steve that "That kid is you," so there's a history of Steve and his friends seeing him as something of a lost boy.  This could prove to be interesting.

 

At least more interesting than Lou's traumatized daughter.  I mean, duh, she's traumatized.  Most everybody who lived through those circumstances would be.  I don't mean to be unsympathetic here, but unless that plot moves somewhere, it is just a great big "duh" moment, and it points to the weakness of the "Lou joining the team" plot.  Chi McBride is a great guy, but it seems to me that the writers have been really inconsistent with his character.  Is he supposed to be the "Father Confessor" of the team, what with his PTSD lectures with Steve, his sensitive conversation with grieving Chin during their fishing date, his "tough love" for doting daddy Danny, etc.?  If so, then he's dropping the ball with his own daughter.  And where is this fictional Mrs. Lou?  Lou Jr?  Not that I'm asking for more characters to join the show, but their continued absence is rather glaring.

[blackwing]

Steve and Grace were out running in Steve's neighbourhood.  Not sure where that is in relation to Danny's house, but I'm assuming Grace has been there enough times, she could have easily made her way back to Steve's house, it was obviously not that far away.  I don't necessarily agree that Danny's overprotectiveness gives him the right to be asstastic to Steve about it.  Where was Danny in all this?  Was he sitting at Steve's house eating bonbons?  Steve went after the car, and called it in to HPD.  I'm assuming at that point he either went back for Grace or arranged for her to be picked up.  It was like a whole TWO MINUTES that she was left alone.

 

She is 12 years old.  I was a latchkey kid when I was 10, in fourth grade.  Many of my friends were as well.  I know times have changed a lot, but there's no reason why a 12 year old can't take care of herself.  Plenty of 12 year olds get dropped off at the mall these days without parental supervision.

[ganesh]

I got the key when I was 11 in 6th grade. I had to call when I got home but after 2 weeks, my parents were over it. I lived in a rural area, but there were still plenty of neighborhood houses I could walk to fairly quickly if I needed help. 

 

If I'm fishing with a colleague and he's going on about how his child is waking up screaming and he wishes he could take his daughter's pain away, to not recommend she get professional help is just bad advice, and to not consider it, is just bad parenting. "We'll handle it as a family?" 

 

Why didn't they give the kid a job at the police office? No one needs a clerk? 

[Bishop]

The return of "Steve, the Science Guy!" forgives a lot in this episode.  A lot.  I love, love, love "Steve, the Science Guy!"  More, please...

Me too!  I missed Steve, the Science Guy!

 

I kind of like Steve taking on the rehabilitation of the street kid as his project.  It will do him good.  Steve's mom "died" when he was that kid's age, and his dad sent him away shortly afterwards, so he had a lot to identify with in that kid.  

 

 I never thought of that connection, but that makes total sense.  It's been established that Steve suffers from abandonment issues, both losing his mother at a young age and then being sent away afterwards,  not to mention learning that his mother essentially ditched him and his sister for 20 years to remain hidden.  Frankly, I think she enjoyed the spy life too much, more than her kids, but that's another discussion.  Maybe the car bomb was her way of getting out of the domestic life.  I mean 20 years is a LONG time, and the only reason she resurfaced is because Steve was so damn persistent in finding Shelburne.  I think she would have remained hidden were it not for that.  So essentially, Steve has been on his own since the age of 15, which is similar to this kid.  I recall that after their mother's murder, Mary was sent to live in the states with Aunt Deb, but does anyone recall where Steve was sent?  

 

I think Steve wants to make a path of redemption for the kid so he can find some himself.  I think that shows a nice symmetry, and I hope the writers are going there.  The kid just doesn't need to develop some sort of secret power and become a regular on the team.  That would be bad.  But if he shows up once in a while at headquarters, delivering shrimp shack lunches and glances at the big screen and says "Yo brah!  I know that dude, he's lolo bats nuts, brah!  Why you lookin' for him?" and contributes, that would be OK.  Occasionally.  I also recall the kid who threw the brick through the police station window to get the cops to pay attention to his story about his missing Dad.  Catherine even pointed out to Steve that "That kid is you," so there's a history of Steve and his friends seeing him as something of a lost boy.  This could prove to be interesting.

 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing this myself as long as it remains a C story overall.  I wouldn't mind the kid turning up every now and then and having a few bonding moments with him and Steve, but I don't want to see him become a side member of the team.  We already have the core five - who should dominate, then Jerry (who I love), Kamekona (who I also love), and Max (who I like). 

 

At least more interesting than Lou's traumatized daughter.  I mean, duh, she's traumatized.  Most everybody who lived through those circumstances would be.  I don't mean to be unsympathetic here, but unless that plot moves somewhere, it is just a great big "duh" moment, and it points to the weakness of the "Lou joining the team" plot.  Chi McBride is a great guy, but it seems to me that the writers have been really inconsistent with his character.  Is he supposed to be the "Father Confessor" of the team, what with his PTSD lectures with Steve, his sensitive conversation with grieving Chin during their fishing date, his "tough love" for doting daddy Danny, etc.?  If so, then he's dropping the ball with his own daughter.  And where is this fictional Mrs. Lou?  Lou Jr?  Not that I'm asking for more characters to join the show, but their continued absence is rather glaring.

 

 

THIS.  I don't dislike Chi McBride, but I don't really understand his purpose to the team.  I don't see where he fills a hole that was lacking in the team.  Frankly, I feel like Grover has encroached upon the Danny/Steve friendship because Grover takes up the reigns of being the guy everyone talks to, which takes away from the team members talking to each other.  I miss seeing Danny and Steve hanging out like they use to, and instead we are getting more Grover with Chin or Grover with Danny or Grover with Steve.  Maybe I've just got a soft spot for the original core four, and I don't really see a need why the writers CONSTANTLY try to insert a fifth member.  First it was Jenna, then Lori, then Catherine, and now it's Grover.  It's okay to have four members even though they are called "Five-O," writers.  

 

Why didn't they give the kid a job at the police office? No one needs a clerk?

 

 

I'm guessing it's because Steve would have to report the kid to child services if he knows the kid is living on the streets.  Basically, Steve is breaking the law by not reporting him, and so he couldn't get the kid a job at the police station without a lot of questions being asked, and the kid's status being revealed.  Kamekona would easily and willingly circumvent the law for the kid if Steve asked him. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by Bishop

[Kel Varnsen]

She is 12 years old.  I was a latchkey kid when I was 10, in fourth grade.  Many of my friends were as well.  I know times have changed a lot, but there's no reason why a 12 year old can't take care of herself.  Plenty of 12 year olds get dropped off at the mall these days without parental supervision.

I do think Danny over-reacted. On the other hand, most of those kids who get dropped off at the mall probably have never been taken hostage (Grace has at least twice that I can remember). And most of them probably haven't had their uncle killed and stuffed in a barrel. And most of them probably don't have parents who get shot at every time they go to work.

[ganesh]

I'm guessing it's because Steve would have to report the kid to child services if he knows the kid is living on the streets.  Basically, Steve is breaking the law by not reporting him, and so he couldn't get the kid a job at the police station without a lot of questions being asked, and the kid's status being revealed.

 

Yeah because 5-0 are sticklers for the law. I meant it was kind of half assed. He could have got the kid into foster care. Giving him a job at the shrimp truck is kind of lame. 

[BW Manilowe]

Me too! I missed Steve, the Science Guy!

I never thought of that connection, but that makes total sense. It's been established that Steve suffers from abandonment issues, both losing his mother at a young age and then being sent away afterwards, not to mention learning that his mother essentially ditched him and his sister for 20 years to remain hidden. Frankly, I think she enjoyed the spy life too much, more than her kids, but that's another discussion. Maybe the car bomb was her way of getting out of the domestic life. I mean 20 years is a LONG time, and the only reason she resurfaced is because Steve was so damn persistent in finding Shelburne. I think she would have remained hidden were it not for that. So essentially, Steve has been on his own since the age of 15, which is similar to this kid. I recall that after their mother's murder, Mary was sent to live in the states with Aunt Deb, but does anyone recall where Steve was sent?

I wouldn't mind seeing this myself as long as it remains a C story overall. I wouldn't mind the kid turning up every now and then and having a few bonding moments with him and Steve, but I don't want to see him become a side member of the team. We already have the core five - who should dominate, then Jerry (who I love), Kamekona (who I also love), and Max (who I like).

THIS. I don't dislike Chi McBride, but I don't really understand his purpose to the team. I don't see where he fills a hole that was lacking in the team. Frankly, I feel like Grover has encroached upon the Danny/Steve friendship because Grover takes up the reigns of being the guy everyone talks to, which takes away from the team members talking to each other. I miss seeing Danny and Steve hanging out like they use to, and instead we are getting more Grover with Chin or Grover with Danny or Grover with Steve. Maybe I've just got a soft spot for the original core four, and I don't really see a need why the writers CONSTANTLY try to insert a fifth member. First it was Jenna, then Lori, then Catherine, and now it's Grover. It's okay to have four members even though they are called "Five-O," writers.

I'm guessing it's because Steve would have to report the kid to child services if he knows the kid is living on the streets. Basically, Steve is breaking the law by not reporting him, and so he couldn't get the kid a job at the police station without a lot of questions being asked, and the kid's status being revealed. Kamekona would easily and willingly circumvent the law for the kid if Steve asked him.

Doris, as I remember, said at some point in S3 that the "car bombing"/her "death" (along with that microfiche she hid in Steve's floor, which was later stolen by Craig T. Nelson's character & retrieved from him by Doris, Steve, Mick & Wade Gutches) was meant to keep her family safe from "enemies" she apparently made--in & out of the CIA--during her time in the CIA. Just like Papa McG's sending the kids to the Mainland was meant to do something similar. But, seeing as we learned Doris apparently went back to being an active CIA operative, once she got Kono & Adam safely to China, I suppose the argument could be made that she preferred the "dangerous" life of a CIA operative to the more "sedate" life of a retired schoolteacher. And that she went back to the CIA to keep from having to answer all those "pesky" questions Steve keeps asking her about her connection to Wo Fat, her life in the CIA, what she did that could've contributed to Wo Fat/Victor Hesse wanting Papa McG dead (I think he considers her faked death contributory to Papa McG's murder), etc.

Respectfully, you said Mary was sent (from Hawaii) "to live in the States" with Aunt Deb (apparently Papa McG's sister although, since she's being played by the redheaded Carol Burnett, she looks more like she should be related to Christine Lahti's Doris McG character than William Sadler's John McG character).

At the time Mary & Steve left Hawaii, it was also a US State (having been 1 since 1959). They were actually sent from Hawaii *to the Mainland US*, not from a foreign country to the US, as you stated. Just saying.

Having said that, towards the beginning of Ep 214, Pūolo (Package)--the ep where Rachel calls Danny (whom I still suspect is actually supposed to be the father) to coach/assist her in the birth of her son, Charles, since her current husband, Stan,'s in Beijing on a business trip--there's a flashback where Papa McG tells a younger version of Steve he & Mary will be moving to the Mainland the next day (apparently to keep them safe while Papa's investigating Doris's death or whatever).

As you said, he tells Steve that Mary will be living with their Aunt Deb. He then tells Steve that "Uncle" Joe (Joe White) pulled some strings & Steve would be attending The Army/Navy Academy, & that he & Mary would only be a few hours away from each other (implying they could visit each other anytime they wanted, & that they were separated for their own safety--harder for "enemies" to get them both when separated than when together).

By the way, The Army/Navy Academy is a *real* boarding school, in Carlsbad, California, for (if I remember correctly) High School age students intending to enter the Army or Navy (or perhaps West Point or Annapolis), if not other branches of military service. Assuming Mary was living with Aunt Deb somewhere in/near Los Angeles (especially given Aunt Deb's singing background), then Steve & Mary would've only been a few hours away from each other & could, at least until Steve went to Annapolis, legitimately have seen each other more frequently than it seems they did according to show canon.

As for Lou/Chi McBride, Chi definitely has the acting "chops" to be a regular, so I have no problem with them making him 1, even if they'd kept Lou in his original job with HPD's SWAT team & as more of an antagonist to Steve/Five-0 like he started out.

But I think they added Lou to the Five-0 team to help cover for Danny's more frequent absences from the team/eps (due to Scott's allegedly renegotiated shooting schedule, minimizing the amount of time he has to spend in Hawaii--which I can kinda understand, at least now, if his baby daughter & her mother are based in LA & not in Hawaii), so the team would (hopefully) always have at least 4 members on hand & not seem "shorthanded", which it would--to me, anyway--with only 3 members.

[Bishop]

Yeah because 5-0 are sticklers for the law. I meant it was kind of half assed. He could have got the kid into foster care. Giving him a job at the shrimp truck is kind of lame. 

The kid didn't want to be in foster care.  It's why he ran away from the other homes, which he told Steve.

 

Doris, as I remember, said at some point in S3 that the "car bombing"/her "death" (along with that microfiche she hid in Steve's floor, which was later stolen by Craig T. Nelson's character & retrieved from him by Doris, Steve, Mick & Wade Gutches) was meant to keep her family safe from "enemies" she apparently made--in & out of the CIA--during her time in the CIA. Just like Papa McG's sending the kids to the Mainland was meant to do something similar. But, seeing as we learned Doris apparently went back to being an active CIA operative, once she got Kono & Adam safely to China, I suppose the argument could be made that she preferred the "dangerous" life of a CIA operative to the more "sedate" life of a retired schoolteacher. And that she went back to the CIA to keep from having to answer all those "pesky" questions Steve keeps asking her about her connection to Wo Fat, her life in the CIA, what she did that could've contributed to Wo Fat/Victor Hesse wanting Papa McG dead (I think he considers her faked death contributory to Papa McG's murder), etc.

 

I could MAYBE forgive Doris for being in hiding for 20 years and lying to her kids and husband, but the part where I won't forgive Doris is essentially choosing Wo-Fat over Steve.  Now maybe to Doris, Wo-Fat IS her first son because she raised him before she ever met John and had her two children.  So in many regards, Wo-Fat was her first child.  We also don't know how long she had Wo-Fat before she had to give him up.  Was it five years, seven years?  I'm guessing it had to be for a number of years and not just one or two.  So Doris had established a relationship with Wo-Fat.  I get that.  However, she kept her son in the dark for 20 years and then when she resurfaces, she goes out of her way to lie and deceive him IN FAVOR of protecting Wo-Fat.  She lets him escape - to go off and murder more people.  She completely ignores Steve's calls and requests to see him and yet she makes a number of visits to Wo-Fat at the supermax prison.  Did she have a hand in helping him escape?  Why else did she go there?  Essentially, Wo-Fat knew all about Steve and Steve's life, and Doris deliberately kept her secrets about Wo-Fat from Steve.  It's beyond sad that Steve had to learn about his mother's relationship to Wo-Fat FROM Wo-Fat while he was being tortured by him.  I can't forgive her for that, and I really hope the writers allow Steve to lay into her, if and when, the character ever returns.

 

Respectfully, you said Mary was sent (from Hawaii) "to live in the States" with Aunt Deb (apparently Papa McG's sister although, since she's being played by the redheaded Carol Burnett, she looks more like she should be related to Christine Lahti's Doris McG character than William Sadler's John McG character).

At the time Mary & Steve left Hawaii, it was also a US State (having been 1 since 1959). They were actually sent from Hawaii *to the Mainland US*, not from a foreign country to the US, as you stated. Just saying.

 

 

Well, respectfully, you're nitpicking, but I get your point.  Of course they are part of the U.S.  If you've ever been Alaska, some refer to going down "to the states" although many also say "the lower 48."  Essentially, both Hawaii and Alaskan residents know they are somewhat disconnected from the mainland - but of course, still very much a part of the union.  

 

As you said, he tells Steve that Mary will be living with their Aunt Deb. He then tells Steve that "Uncle" Joe (Joe White) pulled some strings & Steve would be attending The Army/Navy Academy, & that he & Mary would only be a few hours away from each other (implying they could visit each other anytime they wanted, & that they were separated for their own safety--harder for "enemies" to get them both when separated than when together).

 

 

Thank you.  I couldn't remember where Steve was sent.  Although after losing his mother, I'm not sure sending him to a boarding school was the best option, but I don't begrudge John's choices.  Maybe he knew Steve needed to focus his anger and energy on something, and in this case, it was the military.  

 

By the way, The Army/Navy Academy is a *real* boarding school, in Carlsbad, California, 

 

 

Huh, I did not know that.  

As for Lou/Chi McBride, Chi definitely has the acting "chops" to be a regular, so I have no problem with them making him 1, even if they'd kept Lou in his original job with HPD's SWAT team & as more of an antagonist to Steve/Five-0 like he started out.

But I think they added Lou to the Five-0 team to help cover for Danny's more frequent absences from the team/eps (due to Scott's allegedly renegotiated shooting schedule, minimizing the amount of time he has to spend in Hawaii--which I can kinda understand, at least now, if his baby daughter & her mother are based in LA & not in Hawaii), so the team would (hopefully) always have at least 4 members on hand & not seem "shorthanded", which it would--to me, anyway--with only 3 members.

 

So is that what happened?  (Only because I don't recall reading it anywhere) Scott renegotiated his shooting schedule?  Maybe it's just temporary as he adjusts to being a new father.  I don't mind Chi McBride, and I agree that he's a great actor, but I also think the writers are constantly trying to shoe-horn in a fifth member of the team.  They've been doing it since late season one.  I also don't mind some of the scenes Grover has with the team, but it seems like he has ALL those moments lately.  Why isn't Steve talking to Chin or even Kono if Danny is not around?  Why aren't Chin and Kono even sharing any 'cousin' moments anymore?  It just seems like Grover is the guy who gets all the emotional moments now, and since he's the newest member of the team, I'd rather see some moments between Danny and Gracie or Kono and Steve or Chin and Danny.  I just feel like it's been Grover and everyone lately AND his daughter.  Overall, it's not a big deal because I do like Grover.  I'm just missing some of my main four team moments, although this past Friday was a step in the right direction.  Everyone got shown and everyone had scenes together.  I was happy.

[ganesh]

In the remainder of my post, I also added that he could have gotten him a job in the police station or something where'd he be able to develop some useful skills rather than serving food to people. As for not liking foster care, maybe Steve could have helped find a better family for him. Where's he going to live. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Speaking of Grover, does it bother anyone else that they still call him Captain Grover? It doesn't bother me as much that they call McGarrett "Commander" since Steve is still in the Navy Reserve. And they call Chin-Ho Lieutenant, since he is still in the HPD I think. But Grover was fired from the HPD. So why bother calling him Captain, it is not like he can ever get promoted, since there aren't ranks in Five-0?

[Bishop]

Speaking of Grover, does it bother anyone else that they still call him Captain Grover? It doesn't bother me as much that they call McGarrett "Commander" since Steve is still in the Navy Reserve. And they call Chin-Ho Lieutenant, since he is still in the HPD I think. But Grover was fired from the HPD. So why bother calling him Captain, it is not like he can ever get promoted, since there aren't ranks in Five-0?

Sometimes you just fall into old habits.  Once you start calling someone something, it sort of becomes their name.  

[Raja]

Speaking of Grover, does it bother anyone else that they still call him Captain Grover? It doesn't bother me as much that they call McGarrett "Commander" since Steve is still in the Navy Reserve. And they call Chin-Ho Lieutenant, since he is still in the HPD I think. But Grover was fired from the HPD. So why bother calling him Captain, it is not like he can ever get promoted, since there aren't ranks in Five-0?

Its like General Custer, even though he died as a Regular Army Lieutenant Colonel, once you achieve a higher rank you retain the honorific unless stripped of the rank like Chin Ho was before being restored to HPD.

Look at all the retired "coach"es who work as expert commentators or Presidents Bush, Clinton and Carter. Even President Nixon until his death who resigned like Captain Grover.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Raja

[Mittengirl]

According to Miss Manners, proper etiquette dictates that when an office can only be held by one person, the title does not stay with former holders of said title. The proper way to address a former president is Mr./Mrs. So-and-so, or by a previously held title that can be held by more than one person, i.e. Senator Whomever or General Hassle.

http://www.uexpress.com/miss-manners/2003/12/2/the-ex-presidential-address

[Raja]

There are more than one police Captain's, naval Commander's, and coach's in the world. And of course Missy Manners is right and the rest of the English speaking world is wrong in the modern use of the language.

[ChelseaNH]

I don't know who Missy Manners is, but I'd take the word of Miss Manners over most of the English speaking world, given how so many of them speak English...

[Mittengirl]

I was referring to the President part, not the captain, commander part. The only person who should be called President Lastname is the current officeholder. Just because the media is too stupid to realize that is another issue.

Most of how we address some one is habit. It is weird for me to address my aunts and uncles by their first names after growing up calling them Aunt Beth, etc. Same with parents of kids I grew up with, they will always be Mr. or Mrs.

Given that they all knew Grover first as Captain, of course they still reference him that way. And they do not have titles/ranks with five-o, do they? I know Steve is head of it, but do they have hierarchy?

Edited January 23, 2015 by Mittengirl

[Raja]

5-0 is a special task force which by all evidence has Detective who wears a Sergeant's uniform, it was Newark New Jersey Police in a first season episode, Danny Williams as second in command. As first instituted also had Officer Kono straight from an ungraduated police academy class and a disgraced ex cop who the governor of the state called an inspector before his being cleared of his crime and reinstated as a Lieutenant in the Honolulu Police. They have since temporarily added another US Navy veteran and now a retired HPD police Captain.

 

I would guess that back at HPD it would be Lieutenant Chin Ho, Detective Williams and Officer Kono as the chain of command. On the task force it seems to be Steve, Danny but then someone else may take lead under Gibbs' rules of NCIS. And since H50 exist in the same fictional universe with NCIS and JAG i guess a special task force can change its chain of command organization depending upon the mission.

[BW Manilowe]

Steve is considered the head of Five-0 because the late Governor Jameson chose him to run it when she set it up; when his rank is used, he's called either "Lieutenant Commander" (his actual rank) or the equally acceptable shortened rank of "Commander", even though they're Naval ranks & not HPD (or probably other PD) ranks. Steve is in the Naval reserves, not Retired like Catherine, so usage of his rank is still appropriate.

Danny, whose rank is Detective Sergeant (apparently in both the Newark, NJ PD & HPD), is considered the Second in Command because Steve chose him as his (usual) partner on the task force.

Chin has likely been considered 3rd in command because he was the 3rd chosen for the task force of the original 4 members--chosen by Steve, who was familiar with him/his situation because Steve's Dad had once been his HPD Training Officer/Partner & because Steve broke a bunch of Chin's old High School football records when he attended Kukui High after Chin did (Jorge Garcia's character, Jerry Ortega, also attended Kukui High, we later learn, in Chin's graduating class). In S1, he was referred to as "Inspector Kelly" at least once, maybe twice, prior to his reinstatement by HPD at the rank of "Lieutenant" (it's explained in Ep 124 that if Chin hadn't quit the force over his protecting his Uncle (who is/was also an HPD cop), who stole from the HPD Asset Forfeiture Locker to finance a black market kidney transplant for his wife, he'd have likely reached the rank of an HPD Lieutenant by that point. So when HPD reinstates Chin/he accepts the reinstatement, he's at the rank of HPD Lieutenant, instead of his rank at the time he quit.

Kono's last on the totem pole, at least when the original 4 on the team are concerned. She was recommended by Chin, & accepted by Steve, when the team needed someone unrecognizable as a cop to help bust Snakehead/human trafficker Sang Min. And she was recommended 2 weeks or less before her graduation from the HPD Police Academy. She's only attained the rank of "Officer" in HPD thus far. And she's probably normally partnered with Chin because they're Cousins in the show's "universe" & Steve already chose Danny as his partner before Kono joined the team.

As for when Lori & Catherine were on the team, they might rank higher than Kono, because their professional ranks in the organizations they came from are higher than Kono's HPD "Officer" rank. They also might've ranked lower than Kono as those ranks weren't given to Lori & Catherine by the HPD.

As for Lou, I was gonna say he probably ranks between Chin & Kono, despite being the newest team member (who should maybe be lowest on the totem pole) & given Chin & Kono's own HPD ranks. But then I realized he, having last attained the rank of Captain (whether it was with Chicago PD or HPD) might rank higher than Chin & Kono, if Captain is higher than Lieutenant (I keep forgetting how that goes).

Edited January 26, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Raja]

Rank structures in US police departments differ from force to force. In LAPD a Commander is in between Captain and Deputy Chief where as in naval ranks Commander's are between Lieutenants and Captains. I know of no Lieutenants which out rank Captains except in situations where Lieutenant Commander is called Lieutenant and not Commander when using an abbreviated title.

[Bishop]

BW Manilowe, I think you got it right in how you ranked them.  Kono is last on the totem pole after Danny and Chin. I recall a scene with Kono and Danny when Danny wanted her to do something, and she said something like "Let me guess, because I'm the girl," and he said, "No, because you're the rookie."  I think she's ahead of Grover, however, since she's been with Five-O longer, and she's earned that place.  I don't think his previous role as "Captain" would hold sway over him ever commanding Chin or Kono (or Danny).  If anything, they'd probably all be equal if Steve or Danny were absent.  Steve would remain the head honcho above the rest because ultimately, he's the one who would have to answer to the Governor for his team.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Bishop