Relationships: Speed Dating

[zannej]

Eobard Wells actually admitted to Barry that he did grow to like and care about Team Flash and even Barry despite knowing the ends to his means. One of the main things that disappointed me about the Reverse Flash's story line was that we never got to find out just what it was Barry's alter-ego did to Thawne that made him hate him enough to travel time to kill him. Maybe E2's Thawne will shed some light, but I don't trust the writers to remember that loose string from last season. But digressing, yes, Eobard was far more "socially conscious" than Dick!Wells. I think that it's due to the stereotypical "arrogant genius" complex that most high-functioning people fall into. Few people in Dick!Well's life have likely ever been able to keep up with and/or understand him, and as a result he probably became a recluse that often works alone or only with secular underlings. He's more believable as the head of a bleeding-edge scientific facility iMO. He kind of reminds me of a slightly less couth Caitlin.

I don't think that "most" high-functioning people are arrogant. Sure, there are some, but I think there are more who are not-- you just might now know about it because they don't flaunt it. For some intellectuals though, its not even a matter of arrogance so much as the way the brain functions. Studies have shown that when the part of the brain that controls critical thinking is activated, the part of the brain that controls emotion/empathy is turned off and vice versa. So there is an actual disconnect between intellect and emotion. It explains why people like actuaries seem to care more about money than people. Car companies hire actuaries to assess the costs of paying out lawsuits vs the cost of issuing recalls. Notably, GM decided that it was less expensive to just deny culpability than to issue a recall for a deadly flaw in vehicles that could have been fixed with a plastic ring that cost less than $1. On the flip side, you have people who are otherwise intelligent who make horribly stupid decisions and get sucked in to scams-- like being convinced that their online date is a real person in need instead of some Nigerian scammer bilking them for everything they have. If they were using the intellectual part of their brain, they would see right through it-- but the emotion involved cripples their critical thinking.

 

Ok, I digressed on that. LOL.

 

I really did like the conflict with Eobard/Wells because on one hand he hated Barry but at the same time he loved him-- but I think in his mind they weren't quite the same person. I think the writers didn't actually know what it was Barry had done to piss him off because Barry asked him and Eobard said it didn't matter. If I'd been Barry, I would have said "Yes, it *does* matter. What could I possibly have done to you to make you want to do this?" I do hope they explore that at some point.

 

I really don't see how Wells is like Caitlin-- maybe its because I don't buy that she's all that intelligent from the acting. Since we're talking relationships, I found it interesting that despite it seeming like Eobard was closer with Cisco-- they certainly had more of a friendship in some ways-- it was Caitlin who seemed to have more loyalty. Not that Cisco wasn't loyal, but that it took her longer to accept that he could be a villain. Granted she didn't have the memory of being murdered by him so that may have made a difference. I did find it interesting in a deleted scene with them that there was a flashback to Barry being in the coma and Eobard had been trying to get Caitlin to leave-- made some calls to get her a job at another facility and Caitlin didn't want to leave because she felt that Wells was still recovering and needed her. He assured her that he was sturdier than she thought and that he was concerned about people judging her for the company she kept and she explained that she basically didn't care if people were going to judge her for wanting to help a comatose young man. I don't remember the exact words, but Eobard was impressed with her. I think he wanted her to leave so he could have more privacy, but I do think he also genuinely cared about her. I wonder if he tried to find another job for Cisco or if he felt he would still need Cisco's help for something.

[johntfs]

 

I really did like the conflict with Eobard/Wells because on one hand he hated Barry but at the same time he loved him-- but I think in his mind they weren't quite the same person. I think the writers didn't actually know what it was Barry had done to piss him off because Barry asked him and Eobard said it didn't matter. If I'd been Barry, I would have said "Yes, it *does* matter. What could I possibly have done to you to make you want to do this?" I do hope they explore that at some point.

I don't think it was any one thing that Future Flash did to Eobard some much as what he represented.  Figure Future Flash was "the fastest man alive" and Eobard was "the second fastest man alive just by a little bit."  Eobard was at the point of attempting to murder a child (and did murder the child's mother) so figure back in the future he was a bad guy and Future Flash kept stopping him.  Frustrations mount until Eobard conceives his "Terminator" idea and it works, sort of, but it leaves him stuck in the past. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

And there is the official end of 'Batty' (+ the added bonus of Patty leaving CC altogether).  Thank the Lord.

 

Was I just imagining it, or did I pick up a sadness vibe from Iris while being a good friend and advising Barry to tell Patty about his superhero alter ego.   There was a sad look when Barry seemed happy a bit while talking about him & Patty.  And then when she said - (what we've been saying for a long time now) - that he needs to tell her about him being The Flash if he's serious about her, I got the sense that inwardly she was praying that Barry wouldn't tell Patty [ie, which would mean he isn't serious about her (in her mind)].

 

Maybe its because I was so against Batty and want to see hints of the future WA (if WA is 'endgame'), but I thought I witnessed something subtle there in that scene.

[phoenics]

I don't know if I caught that - but I did catch a parallel with Iris saying "they were moving fast" just like Barry said about Iris and Eddie last year.

But I am so glad the Batty stuff is over. Sheesh that was forced and boring.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of people wondering what the point of her was, especially with the way they just kinda sent her off, and I don't blame them. They didn't do anything consequential with her, which brings me back to my original theory (before the season even started, lol), that the only real reason they gave Barry a girlfriend at all this season was so that they could show us he's not a virgin. Well, great. Mission accomplished, and now Patty's on her way? Man, what a waste of time that was.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Good pickup on the parallel.

 

I agree with what you were saying in the ep thread too, about it being interesting that Barry didn't push his chips into the middle of the table (tell her), especially when Patty was showing all signs of pulling away altogether [the whole upset "decide what you want, and fast" speech].  To me, that implies more of Iris still being his 'one & only', even if its just subconciously, but I think most people will think its just because he was scared of what Zoom might do if Patty knew and they became even closer.

 

 

Not really important, but an aside from the new episode.........  Did the reveal of sharing of sleeping space - numerous times, if Patty's mention of his different instances of nightmares - automatically translate to B/P having sex, or not?  I'm no pervert that needs sex scenes to be entertained by my TV screen, but I don't like having to make up things in my mind to decide what the showrunners might be trying to convey.  As mentioned (humorously) in the ep thread, the only other time we saw Barry trying to be even remotely intimate with someone, he started vibrating in excitement.  Is that fixed and under control now, or was it just the sharing of a bed to sleep on??

[Ruby25]

Uh, no, there was a deleted scene from the last episode that was right AFTER they had sex for the first time, so yeah, they've been intimate. Still, though...ONE episode after that happens and Patty's history.

 

I'm telling you guys- this was the ONLY reason he was given a girlfriend this season. It's like, blatantly obvious, imo. Not least because they literally did nothing else of significance with this character. They just wanted us to know that Barry's had at least one "real" (re: sexual) relationship, because almost everything on the show so far had indicated that he hadn't.

 

My question: if this was SO important to take care of (and I don't believe it was because no one cares), they could have easily given him a one night stand and not wasted ten episodes on a character who's so anticlimactically gotten rid of.

 

And to answer your question above, they completely chickened out on the idea that he can't control himself sexually, because they brushed it off entirely, even after bringing it up last season the way they did. Which tells me they really thought it was important to convey that Barry's had sex, period, and forget everything we introduced last season about that possibly being a problem for him. Sigh.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Ruby25

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Hmm, I either didn't know or forgot about (the mentions of) that deleted scene.  I don't usually seek out extra stuff about shows I'm watching - to avoid major spoilers - so I am behind the times there.

 

I do agree with the seemingly obvious nature of Batty.  The whole relationship was never even hinted at as being very serious, until tonight's episode, and then they immediately go ultra-angst and as a result, ship her off to another fictional DC city.   I just...  I know its CW, but c'mon.  The first 10 episodes of this season were all about the 100% effort towards ship-stalling [WA], plain and simple.

 

If the ship-stalling was the true purpose of Batty, I would have preferred Barry getting back with Linda during that time frame instead [a woman who he did reveal his secret to].

[phoenics]

Well with them bringing on Wally, it would have been kinda gross to push too much Linda/Barry... especially since Linda/Wally are supposed to be a thing eventually...

And with Wally seemingly having an issue with "The White Shadow" (!), we don't want to add a woman to that volatile sibling rivalry.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Another thing I wasn't aware of re: L/W.  I'm 0-2. so I'll quit before I can dig the hole deeper.  lol

 

 

I just wish CW knew that ship-stalling doesn't automatically mean that one or each side of the 'ship' has to be in another relationship.

[phoenics]

Another thing I wasn't aware of re: L/W.  I'm 0-2. so I'll quit before I can dig the hole deeper.  lol

 

 

I just wish CW knew that ship-stalling doesn't automatically mean that one or each side of the 'ship' has to be in another relationship.

Sorry! It was all over this thread some pages back so I assumed it was fair game... sorry, eek.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Sorry! It was all over this thread some pages back so I assumed it was fair game... sorry, eek.

 

Don't worry about it.  A potential 'background' relationship isn't a major spoiler, to me. 

[zannej]

I guess I don't buy that Eobard would hate The Flash just for being faster than him. That doesn't seem to be enough of a motivation for that level of hatred. Of course, he did seem to be a psychopath/sociopath-- but I'm thinking it had to have been something more than that. If it was just a rivalry, I don't think it would have been as personal. There must have been something The Flash did or said that caused him pain-- either cost him his career or the death of a loved one or *something* significant. It doesn't take much for Eobard to justify murdering someone, but most of his kills were dispassionate. His hatred of The Flash was well beyond that. It was most definitely personal.

 

I'm not really liking the dynamic with Wally thus far because his words seemed hostile to Joe without really having justification. Why would he go with Joe if he was so bitter? It doesn't make sense. Also, the actor is not selling the hostility. Either Wally is putting up a front and doing a bad job of it, or the acting is off. He says the words, but I don't believe him.

 

I find the relationship with Caitlin and Jay to be boring and disturbing. Caitlin is too obsessed and is obnoxiously intrusive. I was looking at my clock when they had their scenes and felt that it was just a waste of time.

 

I continue to enjoy the Cisco / Wells dynamic. I mentioned in another thread that Wells knocking more stuff on the floor to spite Cisco reminded me of my cats. I had a cat that would deliberately knock things down to annoy me. She especially liked to get on high shelves and knock things down toward me-- her favorite objects to chuck at me were model airplanes. Then Cisco included Patty shooting Wells as a good thing, but when Wells opened up about what happened with the cops, Cisco was nice. The body language in the scene was interesting because Cisco is trying to force himself to not let Wells in, but being a nice person, he can't help but feel for him. And Cisco of all people knows how it feels to have a villain holding a family member hostage. I would love to see Cisco vibe that Zoom threatened Harry because I think he would understand and want to help. I just hope that Harry doesn't end up betraying them at the end and getting killed. I'm hoping there will be some way for him to be redeemed.

[benteen]

It's sad that Caitlin's character is defined strictly by her relationships with other men.  Often, a main character has love interests who are only defined by their love for the main character.  Caitlin seems to be a main character who is only defined by her relationships with Robbie and Jay.

[phoenics]

It's sad that Caitlin's character is defined strictly by her relationships with other men.  Often, a main character has love interests who are only defined by their love for the main character.  Caitlin seems to be a main character who is only defined by her relationships with Robbie and Jay.

Well, Robbie is the main character in the comic canon that Caitlin actually comes from. She's a firestorm villain - not really a flash villain. Jay - well, I don't know what that's about because the writing for them hasn't been very good.

And honestly - I feel like something weird happened with this show because I cannot imagine that this is ALL they could think of for the iconic JAY Garrick! He's almost done the same disservice as Caitlin - in that he really has no story other than her and now this illness (which somehow Caitlin made all about her).

Also - I am not sure I understand the use of the term "main" character on this show w.r.t. Caitlin - especially the way you seemed to define "main" character as though Caitlin being a main character means that she HAS to be a LI with Barry? I don't think that's the way to think about it?

There is one character who does have her love interests defined by her love for Barry and his lens on her relationships and that's Iris. She also has a dad and brother now on the show and a career that (apparently) will get some focus coming up (believe that when I see it). So, she's still defined by more than her LI's. But not much, lol. Because - just like Caitlin is the main (kinda?) in Firestorm canon, Iris is the main in Flash canon (actually much more so than Caitlin with Firestorm).

Caitlin's love interest in S1 made sense - her story and her rich history are with firestorm, not Flash. Honestly I wonder if her buddy AK threw Jay to her as some kind of concession - the storyline seemed thrown together with Jay and his original purpose seems to have disappeared. It couldn't have been just so he could be a LI to Caitlin.

Part of the issue with Caitlin is that once Robbie left the show I think the writers weren't sure what to do with her. Now I wonder if they've scrapped the idea of Caitlin ever going evil in Earth 1 as KF because Robbie isn't there. I guess they could still do it with the new Firestorm, but it lacks the emotional punch. So now, it feels like she and Jay are thrown together and the writers really don't care so much about Caitlin other than to further the "Jay is sick" storyline.

Although - maybe that's how she ends up KF? It was a lab accident in one of the canons.

[benteen]

Well, maybe main is a bit of a stretch but Caitlin is a member of the main cast, which Robbie isn't.  As a member of the main cast, Caitlin's only character trait is her relationships with other men.

 

This show should be embarrassed by the way they handle their female characters.  Arrow is much better in this regard and the Marvel television shows are a thousand times better.

Edited January 20, 2016 by benteen

[phoenics]

Well, maybe main is a big of a stretch but Caitlin is a member of the main cast, which Robbie isn't.  As a member of the main cast, Caitlin's only character trait is her relationships with other men.

I do agree here. Caitlin has no other family - other than her now dead (?) husband... the guy her story revolved around.

Even though Iris has a dad, brother, Barry, etc.. and a career - the show doesn't give her a PoV still. At least Caitlin got one - albeit about Ronnie. But the thing with Jay was strange - I didn't even notice anything with him and we see Caitlin immediately taking his DNA and running tests? That was just weird - no PoV from her beforehand about what she was seeing either... just ... done.

The show really does need to do better with both women. I keep hoping that we'll see more of that in S2B, but I'm not holding my breath.

This show should be embarrassed by the way they handle their female characters.  Arrow is much better in this regard and the Marvel television shows are a thousand times better.

Marvel is truly great at how it handles its women characters - although I am still miffed that Black Widow never got a solo movie. I guess Hawkeye didn't either, but it's more glaring because she's the only woman who didn't. They could have put a series on Netflix and it would have been huge! But I guess getting ScarJo for that long would have been prohibitive.

[benteen]

Agreed on all accounts.

 

The thing with Jay was weird.  He seemed distracted in this episode (although with Teddy Sears acting, it's hard to notice any change in Jay from what we've seen) but I didn't get the whole "dying" vibe from any of it.

[phoenics]

Agreed on all accounts.

 

The thing with Jay was weird.  He seemed distracted in this episode (although with Teddy Sears acting, it's hard to notice any change in Jay from what we've seen) but I didn't get the whole "dying" vibe from any of it.

Me either! I was like WTF where did that come from? Just strange. And there haven't been any deleted scenes to really push toward that, so I just don't know...

It also bothered me when Iris and Patty sat down (and neither have EVER had a conversation before that beyond a hi and bye), they didn't talk about anything but a man - Barry. And then Iris was with Barry and didn't talk about anything other than Batty/Spallen - NOTHING about Wally and everything going on there... and still NO Point of View for Iris! WTF is up with that? Maybe we will start getting to that, but this is ridiculous. I guess the ONLY reason we got a PoV for Patty is because she was about to break up with Barry and they needed to show that she was unhappy...

Apparently this show only believes we need to know what's up with the women when they are orbiting a man. It's truly truly sad. Gabrielle Stafford keeps bringing up Lois & Clark - she needs to look at that in order to write better for Iris.

I do like that Iris is Barry's "North Star" in that he seeks her out for advice - but since they cut that scene early in the season where Barry supports Iris and we get her PoV (assuming, since they cut it and never released it), it just looks like Iris is there just to support Barry. Maybe now that they're bringing on a new editor (and possible LI or at least opportunity to prove Iris is "over" Eddie), we will get some PoV from Iris about Eddie and hopefully eventually about Barry.

This season has felt like the heart of the show has been ripped out. Honestly I believe a huge part of that was the lack of Barry/Iris scenes... and those STILL lacked Iris PoV last season - I had hoped for more of that. And we haven't gotten a lot of 1 on 1 scenes with Barry/Team Flash individually as much either. I think the lack of both has hurt the season.

I miss Barry/Cisco time. There has been a bit too much of Joe/Barry (at Iris' expense). We can't have Barry/Harrison since it's not the same as Barry/Wells-Eobard. And I WANT some time with Caitlin/Iris - a scene with them bonding over their losses of Eddie and Ronnie would have made so much sense. But noooo they wanted to push Caitlin into an insta-relationship with Jay.

It left the show without its heart from S1 that made all of the craziness work. The relationships got a bit more weird and spread out. If they'd shown Iris growing closer to Team Flash, then that would have had some cohesion, but she's been ghosted half the season. Then we don't even see Cisco/Caitlin interact much. And since we don't have EoWells, that's out... And I think the LoT launch messed up the first half of the show too and didn't allow for character development on The Flash as much as it could have.

There's too many new relationships and stuff just doesn't feel as grounded as it did in S1.

[phoenics]

I'm telling you guys- this was the ONLY reason he was given a girlfriend this season. It's like, blatantly obvious, imo. Not least because they literally did nothing else of significance with this character. They just wanted us to know that Barry's had at least one "real" (re: sexual) relationship, because almost everything on the show so far had indicated that he hadn't.

I think there might be another reason.

I think the whole "Barry is afraid he will lose Patty" stuff is just an appetizer for the main course of what will happen once Zoom figures out that it's actually Iris who really "powers" the flash. Even last night - Barry himself never said that Patty was most important for the flash. That was and has been everyone else - the Turtle, Harry, etc.. even Iris implied it. But never Barry himself. I don't think he's even considered Iris' connection to his powers (most of his most incredible feats came as a result of her being in trouble or being euphoric about her).

If Barry thought he was afraid when Patty might be killed by Zoom, that's peanuts compared to what he might feel if Iris is ever put in that kind of peril by Zoom.

I think Patty ended up being something to make everyone know the stakes will be raised if/when it's Iris who is the one Zoom focuses on.

[Actionmage]

Brought over from the episode thread ( S2E10, Potential Energy):

 

Patty deserves an award for resisting the urge to smack that goofy grin off Barry's face. Jeez. Two times she stood there trying to have a serious conversation with him and he's not even pretending to listen or understand.

 

And the above was just twice in this episode!

 

I understand that Barry needs to stop crime, but the pacing of the scenes in this episode, with the drawn-out silences and stares off at either a crime or a reaction to something, weren't helping Barry's case that he was wanting to come clean. I also get that was part of Barry's problem- superheroing never stops. Yet? As I mentioned in the episode thread, he could have tried to say something to Patty before she walked off to wherever ( presuming it was her bedroom). Instead there is a lingering shot of Barry in Patty's living room, hands either in his pockets or by his side and he's sort of hangdog. Iirc, the front door is even a little open still, from when Barry entered! It was one of the more unusual stagings of a one-sided argument I've seen.  (I don't remember so much indecision in the episode where Barry came clean to Linda.)

 

It did seem odd that Barry tried to play off his inattentiveness as nbd. Patty said and indicated it was. That she left without telling Barry doesn't baffle me. That she did so swifter than Linda surprised me though. ( IRL, I know SVS booked a series, but it was that Patty was allowed to be abrupt.) Patty kept asking for honesty and transparency when Barry was unable to decide whether to be either.  While I may not agree that Patty was the best freakin' girlfriend, she did take a metric ton of bs that no real world significant other would be expected to just deal with and roll along with.

[Ruby25]

Well, it was never Barry's idea to tell her in the first place. He wasn't even considering it until Iris brought it up! And his first reaction was "no, I can't tell her." Iris has to talk him into it and then Harry kinda talked him out of it, and it just seemed like he himself was never really sure about wanting to do it at all.

 

So clearly he just wasn't serious enough about her. And I'm the only person this bothers, but the fact that he started sleeping with someone he never even intended to tell who he really was, really makes him look bad. That's just fucked up to me.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

One thing we can maybe expect with Patty's departure...... Iris might get a few more seconds of screen time, every few episodes.

 

I can't wait for that extra screen time, since it'll probably be about her and her new boss - which being the CW, means there will be something between them, if not a straight up gf/bf relationship.  [/sarcasm]

Edited January 20, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Brought over from the episode thread ( S2E10, Potential Energy):

 

And the above was just twice in this episode!

 

I understand that Barry needs to stop crime, but the pacing of the scenes in this episode, with the drawn-out silences and stares off at either a crime or a reaction to something, weren't helping Barry's case that he was wanting to come clean. I also get that was part of Barry's problem- superheroing never stops. Yet? As I mentioned in the episode thread, he could have tried to say something to Patty before she walked off to wherever ( presuming it was her bedroom). Instead there is a lingering shot of Barry in Patty's living room, hands either in his pockets or by his side and he's sort of hangdog. Iirc, the front door is even a little open still, from when Barry entered! It was one of the more unusual stagings of a one-sided argument I've seen.  (I don't remember so much indecision in the episode where Barry came clean to Linda.)

 

It did seem odd that Barry tried to play off his inattentiveness as nbd. Patty said and indicated it was. That she left without telling Barry doesn't baffle me. That she did so swifter than Linda surprised me though. ( IRL, I know SVS booked a series, but it was that Patty was allowed to be abrupt.) Patty kept asking for honesty and transparency when Barry was unable to decide whether to be either.  While I may not agree that Patty was the best freakin' girlfriend, she did take a metric ton of bs that no real world significant other would be expected to just deal with and roll along with.

 

TBH, I was a little weirded out by that nonsensical smirky appearance & attitude Barry had when Patty was trying to seriously tell him to get his shit together or they were over.  That was way OOC for Barry.  But then again, he was fairly OOC the whole time Patty was in the picture (imo).

 

If you don't want to be with her, fine dude, but that was almost casual dismissal like in its quality.  Actually, if I really think it through... his demeanor there strongly reminded me of faux!Barry from last year, the meta who could shape change into anyone they touched.  He was that same way in a cocky-smirky-"whatevs" way with Caitlin and Iris.  I was like 'did that meta's ('Turtle') abilities cause a mental regression in Barry's mind?  why's he acting like he's 12 again??'.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, I just never bought that Barry was that into her, and I guess a lot of it was because of his attitude while he was with her. He didn't seem like himself to me.

[SevenStars]

Yeah, I just never bought that Barry was that into her, and I guess a lot of it was because of his attitude while he was with her. He didn't seem like himself to me.

It felt like he was trying too hard but I was okay with it because I understood why he was trying so hard. I think that's one of the reasons he never truly considered telling her about being Flash.

And I'll be in the monority, in saying that the only reason I thought he should tell her is because he already told so many people and most of them can be consider his enemies. So I thought him not telling her was him putting her in a dangerous situation without giving her a chance to decidde whether she wants to be put in this position.

But otherwise, I would have been okay with him not telling her cause that is information she can later use against him if the relationship ends badly. So if he hadn't been going around telling his enemies like they were his freaking bff, I would have been okay with him keeping it a secret from her for as long as possible.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Buh-Bye Patty.  Take your emotional blackmail BS and get the F outta town.  "Tell me you're the Flash, and I'll stay."  The fuck!?  Talk about screwed up.  She should be pissed he never told her, but here she is begging to have his babies if he'll just tell her what she already knows.   And don't even get me started on the fake emergency call to get him on the train...

 

Worst waste of a character/subplot ever - the first half of s2 will forever be tainted by that (imo).  Please never come back, or have her come back, Patty and Flash PTB.

Edited January 29, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Actionmage]

We can't have Barry/Harrison since it's not the same as Barry/Wells-Eobard.

 

I don't see why we can't, as that difference would be imminently watchable. Barry trying to connect to someone that actually is the prickly science hero he supposedly idolized?  This Harrison Wells isn't a murderous time-traveler, just a dick. How does Barry accept that and work with Harry?

 

If Barry is just 'whatevs' about Harrison now, that actually is similar to how he treats others that don't present as useful to him.

 

Harrison/E2 version: Eh, you're a jerk. You are somewhat useful though, because you know about Zoom and your daughter is someone I might be able to save.

Patty: You aren't Iris, but I can get "close" to you. Not enough to treat like a person with feelings, but still. Fun times, right?

Linda: Let's use a civilian to lure the big bad into a trap! Well, darn. Now let's send Linda to another city altogether; Zoom couldn't possibly find her here on Earth-1!

Dr. Tina McGee: When I can't turn to Thawne/Wells or Harry, or Stein, Cisco, or Joe, I'll turn to you. Did I ever return that thing that I blackmailed you for then promptly lost?

Jay: You teach me to throw lightning and I let you date a widowed friend without asking your intentions.

Iris: I have had the mad hots for you since before I moved in. Yet, when I was in a coma, you met another guy and got serious. There was a time thing and we kissed. I told you about us, but you turned me down. Then Eddie died. But you still haven't shown me any interest. So, since Eobard Thawne said I'd never be happy, I'm dating someone that isn't you, so there.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Actionmage

[zannej]

I thought the actress playing Patty did a great job, but the writing for her was just so awful. I felt bad for her character. Ok, so she realized it was stupid of her to not realize sooner that Barry was the Flash and then he made her feel stupid by lying directly to her face. WTF. A guy who would lie to her and treat her like that is not worth sticking with. It was very one-sided. And Barry all moping about her breaking up with him because she has a life and he kept lying to her face... Ugh. He was almost as annoying as Anakin Skywalker (whom I despised because I could not see what anyone would ever have seen in such a whiny narcissistic emo brat). Barry could have at least told Patty the truth and explained that it was safer for her to leave at that point because Zoom might kill her. I think she would have understood. And don't get me started on the bit where Barry whined about loved ones always leaving him and Patty saying "You never said you loved me" and him whining that he never got the chance. Barry is a decent hero but a lousy boyfriend.

 

The Caitlin/Jay thing continues to bore me.

 

I am liking the Harry/Cisco relationship though. Despite the antagonism, it seems like Harry does actually care about Cisco. I think he was trying to get Cisco to vibe him. Maybe he thinks Cisco can figure out that Zoom is threatening him and help him. Or maybe Cisco might see what is going to happen and warn Harry from something that would end badly.

 

Then we have the whole Cisco / Eobard thing. I liked how Cisco bragged to Eobard thinking that Eobard would never leave the cell and then Eobard had to be let go to save him. I guess maybe that was why Eobard picked Cisco for his team and possibly why he was so puzzled that he'd grown fond of Cisco.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

As much as it ticks me off, these writers are laboring steadfastly towards making me absolutely and completely apathetic towards any WA plans for the future. 

 

If they can't even visit each other while their convalescing after serious incidents - Barry after Zoom thrashed him and broke his back, and then Iris' mishap in this latest hour - how the hell can they ever really love each other??  I get the need for inserting Wally into the show, but so much so that a quick scene of Barry just stopping by to check on Iris couldn't get any play?  

 

Way to pretty much retcon most of S1 - on the *possible* WA-front - you hacks.

[rogueprinzess]

^^ So true. I think someone in another thread asked whether CP  kicked a head producer's puppy or something to deserve the treatment Iris has gotten from season 1b onward. But I know that's just typical CW. They whitewash everything and when they're forced to add diversity to the cast, that cast member pays the price. Honestly, I getting to the point where I think the only reason the show hasn't killed Iris off is because the initial fanboys nearly rioted when the net trolls tried lobbying that Iris was "unnecessary" for the show and that Caitlin was all the woman Barry needed. But if the current trend continues, Iris leaving/dying would almost be better since at least it would make an impact on Barry in some way. Right now, we're on the path of "death by 1000 cuts" where she's concerned. Keeping her on the outskirts of the plot and other main cast members and when she does show up, making her seem overly assertive or judgmental - that's character assassination. Make her seem so unlikable and unimportant that Barry loving her doesn't seem to make any sense. I see Bonnie from TVD all over again. 

 

The path they have WA on now will continue making it less and less feasible to see a WA future or desire one. I still watch old episodes from S1a so I remember the chemistry that they have. But that can only them for so long. If anything, I feel like the Flash should just step away from romance all together. They haven't gotten a single romantic relationship right.

[phoenics]

Apparently they did shoot scenes of Barry coming to visit Iris in the hospital and Team Flash visiting her too. It just didn't make the final cut for the episode. I am trying to think of what they should have cut to get at least Barry in there... hopefully it will be released as a deleted scene?

CP revealed this in a tweet: https://twitter.com/candicekp/status/695313067463168000

[Ruby25]

As far as WA goes, I'm holding off on comment until we see the E2 episodes. Because I have a feeling what they're doing is using that two-parter to resurrect the idea of the relationship on the show in general, and that after that is when things are going to change between them.

 

When I heard about E2 and the doppelgangers at the start of the season, I wondered if this is what they would do with it, and the reason I wondered that is because I knew it would require zero build-up. Think about it- all you have to do is surprise the audience by revealing that Barry and Iris on E2 are married (or at least together, but I'm guessing married), and then suddenly you've reintroduced the idea/image of them as a couple in a big way without having to do any build-up towards it on E1. Then you can dive back into it with the whole idea now hanging over all their future interactions (which will probably increase from now on).

 

So that's my guess as to what's going on here. We'll see on Tuesday if I'm right.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Ruby25

[Trini]

I still have hope for Iris and Barry, but with these writers, I've lowered my expectations a lot.

I am excited to see Earth-2, but as always, Iris is barely in the promos, so I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, but I think they're hiding her for a reason, actually. CP was filming a LOT during those episodes, so we know she's going to have a lot to do there. I think they want whatever her relationship with Barry is to be a surprise.

[phoenics]

We will see. Hopefully they won't cut any B/I scenes this time...

[rogueprinzess]

As far as WA goes, I'm holding off on comment until we see the E2 episodes. Because I have a feeling what they're doing is using that two-parter to resurrect the idea of the relationship on the show in general, and that after that is when things are going to change between them.

 

When I heard about E2 and the doppelgangers at the start of the season, I wondered if this is what they would do with it, and the reason I wondered that is because I knew it would require zero build-up. Think about it- all you have to do is surprise the audience by revealing that Barry and Iris on E2 are married (or at least together, but I'm guessing married), and then suddenly you've reintroduced the idea/image of them as a couple in a big way without having to do any build-up towards it on E1. Then you can dive back into it with the whole idea now hanging over all their future interactions (which will probably increase from now on).

 

So that's my guess as to what's going on here. We'll see on Tuesday if I'm right.

 

 

 

Oh yeah, I detect a lockdown ring on this Iris so I'm going to assume that she and Barry are married on E2.

 

 

On the Afterbuzz Flash show, one of the panelists presented an interesting possibility; that the newspaper that Gideon showed the team last season (sidenote - why the heck hasn't the team been using Gideon more often? Seems like a serious goldmine to ignore, especially for Cisco) was actually from E2, not Barry's current timeline. I think that introduces far too many paradoxes, but an interesting speculation.

[driedfruit]

On the Afterbuzz Flash show, one of the panelists presented an interesting possibility; that the newspaper that Gideon showed the team last season (sidenote - why the heck hasn't the team been using Gideon more often? Seems like a serious goldmine to ignore, especially for Cisco) was actually from E2, not Barry's current timeline. I think that introduces far too many paradoxes, but an interesting speculation.

 

Those guys are very anti-Iris/Barry so I'm not surprised they'd speculate that. However, that can't be true because

 

From what I've heard Iris is not a reporter on Earth 2, Barry is. Also, as we know Barry isn't the Flash there, Jay is.

[phoenics]

Those guys are very anti-Iris/Barry so I'm not surprised they'd speculate that. However, that can't be true because

 

From what I've heard Iris is not a reporter on Earth 2, Barry is. Also, as we know Barry isn't the Flash there, Jay is.

Agreed. The panel is reaching. As usual.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

As far as WA goes, I'm holding off on comment until we see the E2 episodes. Because I have a feeling what they're doing is using that two-parter to resurrect the idea of the relationship on the show in general, and that after that is when things are going to change between them.

 

When I heard about E2 and the doppelgangers at the start of the season, I wondered if this is what they would do with it, and the reason I wondered that is because I knew it would require zero build-up. Think about it- all you have to do is surprise the audience by revealing that Barry and Iris on E2 are married (or at least together, but I'm guessing married), and then suddenly you've reintroduced the idea/image of them as a couple in a big way without having to do any build-up towards it on E1. Then you can dive back into it with the whole idea now hanging over all their future interactions (which will probably increase from now on).

 

So that's my guess as to what's going on here. We'll see on Tuesday if I'm right.

 

A huge part of me hopes you're right on this, but a small part of me wonders why it takes E2 discoveries/happenings to make B/I believable in E1??  That's on the writers, the inability to make WA happen without nearly impossible situational influences.

 

Also doesn't explain why they keep cutting scenes - even if are just really quick ones - to show that Barry & Iris care about each other, as life-long friends, if nothing else.

[rogueprinzess]

A huge part of me hopes you're right on this, but a small part of me wonders why it takes E2 discoveries/happenings to make B/I believable in E1??  That's on the writers, the inability to make WA happen without nearly impossible situational influences.

 

Also doesn't explain why they keep cutting scenes - even if are just really quick ones - to show that Barry & Iris care about each other, as life-long friends, if nothing else.

 

This whole season has been a aimless mess so far. They have all these characters with just...seasons worth of canon and backstory that could be explored and instead they're cramming it all into poorly edited episodes. None of the Flash characters have really had any significant growth yet this season unless you count Cisco getting a bit more comfortable with his Vibe powers. But even that arch has been butchered, likely by the many scenes they've cut. It saddens me so much because the writers ARE writing these scenes for the other characters on this show, and they're even getting filmed, but then they're hitting the cutting room floor. I just don't understand what the show's trying to accomplish at this point. If not the relationships on the show, then what?

[zannej]

I like the burgeoning mentorship relationship that Harry and Barry are forming. I love how Harry tried to force himself to not like Barry, but that he ended up feeling guilty about betraying him. I wish we had been able to see the deleted scene of Barry visiting Iris in the hospital. I think they could have cut some of the racing stuff or some of the tar pit stuff (the tar pit part bored me) to have it. I wish that when they did the DVD releases that they could just put deleted scenes back in because they don't have to worry about cutting for commercial breaks.

[catrice2]

Did Barry really just say "at the risk of Joe's daughter?"  Wow, not Iris, or a person I love, or even a person I care about, but "Joe's daughter?" 

[zannej]

Did Barry really just say "at the risk of Joe's daughter?"  Wow, not Iris, or a person I love, or even a person I care about, but "Joe's daughter?" 

I think he was trying to get it to hit home with Joe that he would be affected and not just Barry. He was making it about Joe and trying to get Joe to think about it in the perspective of a father. I don't think it was meant to signify any diminishment of Barry's affection for Iris. I do think the word choice could have been better. He could have just said Iris instead.

[bettername2come]

I thought it made sense in the moment. In a "you're not the only one with a daughter" way to Harry. Because that is how they've related Joe and Harry in the past. In the ep where Zoom attacked Barry the comparison was, "you love Barry, I love my daughter"  and in this scene Harry immediately says "I just sentenced my daughter to death to save your son." That parental bond is what they use to make a comparison between Harry and Joe. 
 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Can E1!Barry [& Joe/Cisco] get stuck forever on E-2 (E2!Barry can be done away with however they want to do it)?  If that's what it takes to finally have some WA that makes sense and is worth watching, I'd be all for it.

 

Before the trip to E-2, It felt like Iris was trying to push that after dinner talk toward one path, and Barry took a slight detour.  I think she was trying to say "please don't leave me / you have to come back to me ", but he took it as her telling him he couldn't run away from his manpain hurts of getting over Selfish, I mean Patty.   

 

Hopefully seeing what his counterpart's life is like, and who its with, will get his head out of his butt in terms of Iris and what they can be to each other, together.

[Jenesis]

While I loved the whole WestAllen-ness of the Earth-2 episode, I'm still waiting some acknowledgement of season 1 WestAllen and the fact that Barry loved Iris for most of his childhood and all his adult life. I want Barry to say that what Earth-2 has with Iris was what he dreamed about in the past or something along those lines.

[phoenics]

While I loved the whole WestAllen-ness of the Earth-2 episode, I'm still waiting some acknowledgement of season 1 WestAllen and the fact that Barry loved Iris for most of his childhood and all his adult life. I want Barry to say that what Earth-2 has with Iris was what he dreamed about in the past or something along those lines.

 

Actually I think this is exactly where they are going with  this storyline.

[Trini]

Relationship-wise, I think the main point of Barry's diversion with Earth-2 Iris* was to re-kindle Barry's love of Iris; and yeah give him glimpse of his dream come true. But (and there's always a 'but'!) this 'love' story is still so one-sided. Iris still considers Barry as only a friend -- same as a season and a half ago.

 

Anyway I think we should a little more insight about E-2 WestAllen in the next episode, so looking forward to that.

 

*(while trying to ignore him being a creeper impersonating E-2 Barry)

 

-----

In non-WestAllen relationships: it sucks that Caitlyn is paired up with the lamest version of Jay Garrick ever. All of Killer Frost lines were silly, but I did like seeing her and Deathstorm/Ronnie together despite them being villains. I think Danielle has much better chemistry with Robbie Amell.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Trini

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Actually I think this is exactly where they are going with  this storyline.

 

'Liked' this post because I want it to be true.

 

 

Relationship-wise, I think the main point of Barry's diversion with Earth-2 Iris* was to re-kindle Barry's love of Iris; and yeah give him glimpse of his dream come true. But (and there's always a 'but'!) this 'love' story is still so one-sided. Iris still considers Barry as only a friend -- same as a season and a half ago.

 

Does she, though?  I guess I watch the show through tinted glasses, because I see glimpses of more at times - very rare times, admittedly, but they do happen. 

 

Sadly, however, we'll never really know because they pretty much never give Iris a viewpoint, re WA (so far this season).  We don't see things 'through her'.  She's either a bit part in random scenes or the scenes where she is actually allowed to provide the PoV, 90% of them are mostly inconsequential to anything involving the relationship she & Barry have, be it friends or otherwise.

Edited February 12, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36