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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Altered Reality

Altered Reality

I think after the colossal blunder of Bloodlines they don't want to announce anything spinoffy until they have their ducks in a row,  If J2 leave, they have the seeds of Jody, Donna, Claire, Cole, Hannah and the other angels in heaven. They have the Stynes as a new big bad, cause no way that's the last of the Stynes.  Cas and Crowley have their own separate fanbases that could possibly support Supernatural for a while. I dunno. It's weird. 

 

But if s10 is not it then IMO s11 will be it for the boys. 

Bloodlines, right.  Forgot about that.  Or at least I've tried desperately to forget out it :D

 

I think you are right about the set up for a spin-off, but I don't think they'd risk announcing another season of Supernatural then not having the boys involved.  I can hear the howls of outrage now (bait and switch, no?).  I do see  s11 being it for the boys though.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

I just remembered that I read that Jensen said in a con meet and greet that is going to be directing at least one episode of s11 so he's back as at least a director.  

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7kstar

7kstar

Jensen has said and I forgot where I read it, that this was Carver's best final yet and he didn't have a clue how it would be resolved.

 

Show can end quickly if the ratings aren't there.  I don't think they would kill the boys off and start a new one without them as that would have a backlash on the new show, a death sentence really. 

 

I remember when CBS decided to shorten Numb3rs run and announce a new show would run in it's spot.  Basically Number's fans killed the new show.  They campaigned to have the fan base watch anything but the new show.  The new show died, regardless whether that was the cause or not. 

 

However I could see this being it.  Jensen has hinted you know it's the last season if the boys are fighting the big bad together as though if they are united it would be the sign of the end.

 

Right now, I'm fine with next being the last.  I would rather it ended without me deciding that's it, I'm out, I'll watch the last one when it airs, like I did with Lost, but  I'm out. 

 

I'm hoping that final will bring something back, but right now I'm dreading it but can't not watch.  Now if Metatron was killed I might get a little excited...

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

There are no spoilers in this speculation, but I had this thought in light of some conversation in the episode thread regarding foreshadowing and the boys' deaths.

 

What if this whole "We love SPN and are excited to have it go as long as it can" is a huge misdirect and this IS the last season and both Winchesters die in the season finale? What if none of the SPN people were at the upfronts for next year because THEY WON'T ACTUALLY BE ON THE CW NEXT YEAR?

 

Yeah. Seems unlikely, but that might be kind of an awesome way to go out. :)

 

I think they simply weren't at the Upfronts because of the convention schedule (England, Rome (now), then Australia).  They made a big fuss over the boys last year because it was S10.  Not physically being at the upfronts but having the show schedule announced and Pedowitz saying (again) the show goes as long as the ratings hold and the boys want to do it.  Now "the ratings hold" IS a bit iffy as they took a marked turndown since moving to Wednesday.  And they've kept them on Wednesday.  So if the ratings stay right where they are in the fall?  IDK if the show gets a 12th year.  But I think S11 is absolutely solid for 23 episodes.  I think the J's are signed and Mark and Misha are as well (Misha let slip that they put him on a two year contract a while ago). 

 

Poster/Summary: The poster has all four on.  Yes, it's possible that they won't have Mark (or even Misha) since the poster is just a reuse of the S9 poster (yes, two years ago), zoomed in and turned red.  Promo monkeys.  But if they wanted to play coy, they would have used a different poster IMO. The entire purpose of the Upfronts is about getting advertising dollars.  They listed all four in the cast for the show summary.  To put them IN the cast and then yank one for the season is kind of misleading for the advertisers.  That's bad business.

 

Cast appearance: They generally trot the "talent" out to mingle and generate buzz.  Only J2, I believe, has gone in the past as they are the show leads.  It would not surprise me one bit if J2 negotiated not having to do ALL the appearances.  They had this world-wide tour on their calendar for MONTHS.  And I'll bet real money they'd much rather be in Europe than meeting with advertising people.  This is their vacation time and although they are "working" at a convention, the whole week has been filled with tweets from London & Rome.  I also recall how EXHAUSTED they were at the media week in September (where again, it was the 10th and they were taken round for lots of interviews and what not).

 

Bottom line;  The Upfronts is a chore, not a joy.  I think they aren't there because they'd rather be hanging out in Rome with the fans. I think Pedowitz is probably okay with that because it's a pretty solid show.  Now if the ratings stay low in the fall, well then we might see "last year" talks.  But I don't think we'll see that kinda buzz until November sweeps are in. 

Edited by SueB
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7kstar

7kstar

Carver...all I got to say is that you better deliver and make it worthwhile that you killed Charlie. 

 

Not going to get too excited because every time I do, I hate it....

 

Please let me like it...please????

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catrox14

catrox14

I think it would be really interesting of we learn that Dean has been trying to live with demon! Dean this entire time.

I find myself watching the three first episodes of this season a lot (what? Don't judge me) especially Reichenbach and Soul Survivor. Crowley screamed at Dean to pick a bloody side. And Dean seemed to be contemplating his future when Sam showed up. And honestly, it struck me upon rewatch that it seems rather unlikely that demon! Dean who just nearly killed Cole with one arm tied behind his back practically, was going to be subdued that easily by a little bit of holy water, demon cuffs and Sam who actually did have one arm tied to his front.

I wonder now if there's a part of demon! Dean that was sick of being on the road now and just wanted to go home. So he let Sam capture him to get back into the Bunker. Dean being the prideful guy that he can be at times was not about to go back on his own.

Like he could have left that bar since he knew Sam was on the way and he had to have known Sam was going to try and save him. So he tolerated the cure just enough to slip the Devils trap, kill Sam and live in the Bunker. What he didn't didn't plan for was Cas arriving with any grace because the last he knew Cas was dying.

I still go back to the moment right after the black faded from Dean's eyes. Just the way Jensen played it was so brilliant and so ambiguous. Like IMO to me it seemed like Dean made a choice to stop fighting and try to live normally because his life as demon wasn't really all that great.

Also, if Dean was fully human again shouldn't he be yakking up his guts when he wasn't killing?

And the only reason I'm saying this is there was something about Dean in that clip that seemed like demon Dean. And of course he's in a bar wearing the red and black shirt combo. I may or may not be obsessed with demon! Dean. I'm trash.

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catrox14

catrox14

This is how sad I am. I noticed Jensen changed his FB banner pic to Dean in Purgatory.  Is Jensen spoiling us again like he did last season with "It's a bit of an eye opener"?

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GirlyGeek

GirlyGeek

Well, if Dean ends up in Purgatory again, I hope there aren't any dogs around for Sam to hit. I can't take anymore of that crap.

If the writers are really looking for symmetry and full circle storytelling, then I guess they could send Dean back to purgatory and actually have Sam save him this time. But they'd have to give us some real Purgatory for me to care.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

The thing about Dean being in Purgatory is like why would he go there? He's not a monster and demons don't go to Purgatory. So if he is killed how does he end up there unless that's the deal Death makes with him, that he takes him to Purgatory instead of Hell or Heaven or Oblivion( my gods I really want there to be another universe called Oblivion). Now, if he's actually killed and ends up in Purgatory without the aid of Death, does that mean  Cain will be in Purgatory too?

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Jensen made this his Facebook page profile pic. TODAY.  While in Europe.

 

W9Q9Gfl.jpg

 

 

That's from Purgatory.  Do you think he's yanking out chain?

 

ETA:  Sorry catrox...missed that you posted this.  I'll leave the picture here just because it's pretty.

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

LOL that's okay SueB. I don't know what that little shit is up too.

 

Being magnanimous, maybe he feels he's in Purgatory without Jared?  Or he's telling us what is going to happen ...just like last season LOL.

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7kstar

7kstar

LOL that's okay SueB. I don't know what that little shit is up too.

 

Being magnanimous, maybe he feels he's in Purgatory without Jared?  Or he's telling us what is going to happen ...just like last season LOL.

well we will know on Wednesday...darn it!  But it sure is a pretty pic...somehow I get lost in his eyes.  :)

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

The only way Dean ending up back in Purgatory would make sense to me would be if the last three seasons were Dean's Purgatory--meaning Dean never escaped Purgatory in S8. I'm not even sure that would line up everything and/or if I can get behind that, but it would make all the what-the-fuckery over the last couple years make some sort of sense.

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catrox14

catrox14

I've been reading some interesting analysis of The Prisoner...and someone mentioned that the way the filmed Dean in this episode was that the railings of the lair cat walk are framed around Dean as angel wings. And when I went back and looked...well holy shit, they sure do.  And Dean is filmed as being larger than life...looming over everyone and everything when he comes into the bunker.

So taking that and thinking throughout the season, Dean was in a strip joint called Angelz.  The main title card is angel blue and black smoke...

 

There is talk of a fan favorite dying....so we know Death is a fan favorite.  I'm becoming more convinced that Dean will be the new Angel of Death. And I really don't know how I feel about that at all . I don't see anyway they write themselves out of that...unless...it's decided that s11 will be the end and it's all about Dean killing God.

 

GvpSOee.jpg

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catrox14

catrox14

OH SHIT. OH SHIT. HOLY SHIT.  Crowley. 

 

I just saw spec on tumblr about Crowley and OMG wouldn't this just be the most amazing thing.  Why did this never occur to me?

 

In last week’s episode, the hamster witch lady told Crowley SOMETHING about a demon that pertained to his mother. I am pretty damn sure it was that his daddy was a demon.

What do we remember about half demon/half humans? Well, they are pretty much all freaking powerful ANTI-CHRISTS. ‘Member Jesse?

 

 

And then Crowley said he's been up to something all year that we don't know about...

 

Guys....what if Crowley is the Anti-Christ and Death knows this but can't kill him but Dean with the Mark as a reaper, could. What if Dean kills Crowley(he'll have his reasons) and it's just the first step to the Cain prophecy.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

But, if Crowley was the Anti-Christ it would seriously put into question S5, S6 and S7 for me. The Anti-Christ is supposed to be the most powerful being in existence, right? Crowley hiding away in a trailer park just doesn't track for me.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

FTR, My knowledge of the Anti-Christ comes from the old skool The Omen. He didn't really acknowledge or understand he was the Anti-Christ until he was older IIRC.

 

Maybe Crowley didn't know he was the Anti-Christ.  Or he's been trying to fight it. That would be kind of interesting to me. If Crowley did know, maybe he just didn't care and was biding his time doing what he wants until he was ready.

 

Maybe Rowena's hex triggered The Anti-Christ in  Crowley.

 

I'm all aboard the Crowley is the Anti-Christ train.

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I'm referring to the Anti-Christ kid they had in S5. Cass said the kid would be powerful enough to destroy the host of Heaven...meaning the angels and possibly God. Crowley's been "old" for a long time now, I'd think he would've realized how powerful he was before now.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I'm referring to the Anti-Christ kid they had in S5. Cass said the kid would be powerful enough to destroy the host of Heaven...meaning the angels and possibly God. Crowley's been "old" for a long time now, I'd think he would've realized how powerful he was before now.

 

 

I agree -- Jesse was doing stuff without knowing he was doing it.  I'm sure Crowley would have known how powerful he was a long time ago.  He's not a small child with no knowledge of the demonic/witchy after all.  

 

If the show were to do it, they would be giving Crowley way too much power.  Assuming they remember their own canon, which is questionable these days.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I'm referring to the Anti-Christ kid they had in S5. Cass said the kid would be powerful enough to destroy the host of Heaven...meaning the angels and possibly God. Crowley's been "old" for a long time now, I'd think he would've realized how powerful he was before now.

 

I understood that is what you meant. But Jesse doesn't have to be the only anti-christ model here. Maybe Crowley was an unmanageable child and that's why Rowena left him?  Maybe Rowena hexed him to not remember he's the anti-christ?

 

I can find plenty of reasons why Crowley didn't know or chose not to exercise his power.

 

Crowley being the anti-christ actually makes all the sense in the world to me. YMMV. But I'm taking a seat at the Crowley is the anti-christ table.

 

************************************

 

 

NOOOOO!!!!!! Is Death going to demand Baby for removing the Mark???

 

 

 

X6ByUff.jpg

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think Crowley's got something cooking, but if it ends up being that he's the Anti-Chrst, I'm pretty sure I'll be pointing and laughing at them...and not in a good way. Crowley's just got his evil back, let's not make him ridiculous again, please!

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

And also despite Cas saying that the antichrist was just demon and human "spawn," I'm pretty sure it's more complex than that, or demons would be doing it all the time (pun intended). Hell, Dean could've accidentally spawned an antichrist or 2.

 

I think there were a couple of things involved that made Jesse fairly unique 1) they made mention of Jesse's mother being a virgin, and I'm pretty sure that Rowena was... not. 2) The demon somehow impregnated Jesse's mother from the inside - i.e. no sex was involved, so technically the demon wasn't her "lover." He/it just somehow made her/itself pregnant in her host body. 3) Jesse's powers manifested when Lucifer rose. It might even be questionable if Jesse still had his powers anymore - if he was still alive - once Lucifer was thrown back in the cage. So in my opinion, this was all based on timing. The demon who was Jesse's "father" was one of the few elite who either knew the timetable or was sent by someone who did - like Lilith - to "make" Jesse to correspond to the time period when Lucifer would be rising... otherwise he would not be of as much use. 4) We don't know what would have happened to Jesse if Castiel had killed Jesse. Would he have ceased to be the antichrist? Would he have ended up in purgatory? In Hell? Castiel likely should have considered that before trying to kill him, because if he ended up in Hell to become an even more powerful demonic antichrist later on... really short-sighted strategy on Cas' part there.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I take it with a grain of salt, heck I`d take this with all the salt in the world coming from Carver. These writers constantly seem to think they write epic stuff and pat themselves on the back for it.

 

200? demons escaping from hell didn`t change the world. Lucifer rising the apocalypse nearly happening didn`t change the world. All the angels falling from Heaven didn`t change the world. Souls being stuck on earth for months on end didn`t change the world.

 

None of the stuff that should have changed anything on a global scale did. So I assume, whatever the cliffhanger is, it will ""change" the landscape of the show just as much. They`ll still have random filler episodes, unfunny meta and all that. None of which can happen if something truly groundbreaking went down.

 

This is the show so cowardly they brought back Dean immediately from Purgatory because we couldn`t have even one episode of separation. And then later they cured Demon!Dean three eps in because it was time for some meta crap again. Which, noone forced them to do that for their 200th.

 

Lets see, does Rowena release all the demons from hell and they make just as much of a splash as when all the angels were on Earth? Would they actually kill Death and noone dies anymore? Doubtful. 

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GirlyGeek

GirlyGeek

Anyone game to gather up all the spoilers we know and organize them?  no?  I'm just crazy? lol

I'm rememering a few weeks back, JA posted a pic of him writing something on the trunk or front of the Impala.  I think he said it was "for Sam" but that may have been what we all thought/guessed.

 

Also, MC saying it will seem like all is well, big sigh of relief and then "oh $h#%"

 

JA saying he's not sure how we're gonna get out of this one.

 

Also, the phrase "change the landscape of the show" makes me thing... they're gonna go somewhere else/some TIME else.
What if both boys end up in Purgatory?  Or some kind of reset, time-wise (which I'm not saying I'd be a fan of...)

 

Anyone else remembering spoilery stuff?

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I saw another great thing on Tumblr.  That Dean is following a lead that God is in fact on a tortilla in New Mexico which is why he's at a Mexican Restaurant in the middle of nowhere which could be in New Mexico. I laughed a good amount at that.

 

I think the note is leaving Baby to Sam or telling Sam where Dean has gone because the trailer has Sam driving Baby to the restaurant and we also saw a pic of J2 helping the crew take Baby out of a ditch.  So I'm thinking the boys make some kind of getaway either Sam and Dean and Cas or maybe just Sam and Cas and something happens that caused the Impala to crash. 

 

I'm still expecting John Winchester to show up in the last frame.  That maybe he shows up as a reaper....for Dean.

Edited by catrox14
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missbonnie

missbonnie

Considering that Metatron is running around with the demon tablet, couldn't he have a hand in making Crowley the antichrist? Eh, whatever it is, I have a bad feeling that I am going to hate it.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I think Cas summoning Crowley is a huge thing. I'm thinking if Dean finds out that Cas is working with Crowley he'll never trust him again and that might trigger him to kill Crowley and Cas. And then somehow he kills Sam probably accidentally.

And if they want to reset back to s1 or s2 dynamic then Dean makes a deal with death to save Sam.

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I was joking earlier when I said maybe the last three years were just Dean in Purgatory, but I'm not sure it's really all that half-baked anymore. I'm thinking they'd think it was cool to pull a Lost.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I still think self-sacrifice is the most likely option.  Death's scythe will destroy the Mark, but not kill Dean.  Dean may be knocked out for a bit, which would be the perfect opportunity for him to have a chat with John.  Maybe Mary.  And a couple of other loved ones.

 

Meanwhile, Sam thinks Dean is dead and follows through with his plan, even though Dean will (probably) advise against it.  Dean comes back, everyone breathes a sigh of relief when the Mark is gone, then BLAMMO!  All Hell breaks loose -- perhaps literally.

 

During all that, Crowley and Rowena have a bit of a spat.  Sad to say I'm not really concerned.  I've come to terms that Rowena and/or Cas will die, but Crowley will survive.  It may have been a red herring, but I think they've set up a future story for Crowley.  Not so with Cas.  Rowena can go either way, but I like her, so she's probably dead.

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mertensia

mertensia

I wonder how that conversation would go..."Dad! Oh I'm up here in Heaven after asking Death to kill me because I couldn't control the Mark of Cain anymore.... Sam? Well he's not at Supercuts I can tell you that. He's hanging around with the King of Hell's mother... Why? They were trying to remove the Mark. Say is your dad around? We met him in 2013. " The mind boggles.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

I wonder how that conversation would go..."Dad! Oh I'm up here in Heaven after asking Death to kill me because I couldn't control the Mark of Cain anymore.... Sam? Well he's not at Supercuts I can tell you that. He's hanging around with the King of Hell's mother... Why? They were trying to remove the Mark. Say is your dad around? We met him in 2013. " The mind boggles.

When did they meet John's dad?  I don't remember that.  I remember Samuel but he was Mary's father.

 

ETA: Nevermind, just remembered John's father was the MoL...duh.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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catrox14

catrox14

So I've been thinking about Charlie's death.  I've been thinking she killed herself to avoid being harvested since the Stynes seem to want a live person to harvest from.  We didn't see that they took a part from her, unless it's being saved for when they show up with a FrankenCharlie. 

 

Now if she did kill herself, that means Dean killed the Stynes for nothing. I mean yes they killed other people but Dean's motivation is totally moot. (or moo tm Joey Tribianni).  That might be the thing that drives Dean to make a deal with Death, not just almost having killed Cas. 

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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