Spoilers With Speculation

[Aeryn13]

I could live 500 years and never seeing Dean in the "wring his hands about a supernatural Sam" role again would still be too soon for me. That horrible back half of Season 8 broke me. I don`t care who he saves or doesn`t unless it`s freaking epic world-saving in the Finale.

[7kstar]

@awesom04000 Sam went dark in Season 3 under Carver's hand.  One spoiler said a new bad would show up.  Which we really haven't seen.

 

What is the "they go there?" issue?

 

Yes Sam has done some stupid stuff due to the writing in season 8 & 9.  Yes some of the fandom believes that Dean was evil in how he saved Sam.  I read just a bit and it turned my stomach so I happily let it go.

 

I see two flawed brothers both having the same issue.  One is happy to go out and leave the other behind if it means they can save the other, but neither wants to live without their brother.

 

Now in real life you can't do what Sam and Dean have done.  But it is verging on predictable on what has happened so far, so I'm hoping for a surprise, a pleasant surprise.  I suspect this next ep will let us know a few more ideas but I'm tired, so very tired of which brother f up the most. 

 

It's time the writers came up with something interesting because a recycle storyline will make me not excited at about the next season.  Hopefully they are aware of this and trying to set us up and Carver has done some things better.  I think he's learned from the fan's reactions. 

 

So there is hope but I'm not wanting to see Sam fail again or beeeeeeeeeeeee so awful again.  Time for something new.   The wrong move could really have a powerful backlash because another divide in the fandom could end it.  Hopefully Carver's not stupid.

Edited April 22, 2015 by 7kstar

[mertensia]

Maybe thus time they both go to Hell- that would be different.

[Demented Daisy]

I hope the ending isn't just for shock value and they actually have a plan.  That would be new and different, I think.  ;-)

[Aeryn13]

 

One spoiler said a new bad would show up.  Which we really haven't seen.

 

It could be the Stynes. They could be building on "supernatural evil family" and bring a vendetta storyline over into next Season. 

[catrox14]

I'm also wondering if the stynes are being setup as spinoff characters.

[catrox14]

Maybe thus time they both go to Hell- that would be different.

I am torn on seeing them both in Hell because I've always thought that everyone's Hell is different akin to everyone's Heaven being different. I've always preferred Deans hell being tethered to oblivion without Sam. We never saw Sams hell that I can recall. And I really don't think Crowleys current dungeon warehouse is actual Hell. I think it's just like a waiting room. We saw that Crowely's Hell is the never ending DMV queue but even that is probably not actual Hell.

What would be interesting though is if they go with both boys in Hell they would not be together. To get out of Hell they have to do it together but since they would be in different Hells they have to figure out the other ones Hell to get to each other. Sort of like a Bizarro Dark Side of the Moon. Of course Dean become a demon might throw a wrench into that plan, because if they are in Hell then Dean has been killed again but then a knight of Hell.. Could be useful.

Crank theory SWERVE:Sam says he can't do it without Dean and he doesn't want too. What if Sams plan is to somehow make himself like Dean so he can be with Dean forever since essentially Dean is already dead as a human /gross sobbing, because if he dies again he goes back to being a demon.

I feel like they can't have Sam be stupid here. They can have him do Bizarro AHBL PT2 thing wherein he is might actually try and find a spell that binds him to Dean in some way and if Dean dies Sam dies.

Or maybe the spell to remove the mark binds them in that way?

Edited April 22, 2015 by catrox14

[oliverwendell]

 

I'm also wondering if the stynes are being setup as spinoff characters.

 

I hadn't thought of that, but you could be right.  They'd have to develop them a bit more as actual characters first -- some of them would have to be less evil than others, for example.  Maybe there's a Michael Corleone type who's not so enamored of the "family business."  I'll be watching for that sort of thing over these last few episodes.

[catrox14]

Oh... Maybe Cole and the stynes become the spinoff. Like maybe the monster that was his Dad that Dean had never seen before or since was a Styne monster if the stynes are the Frankensteins. Then Cole has someone to hunt to get revenge on. And for some reason the CW is obsessed with this family of monsters thing that The Episode That Never Was was supposed to be.

They could bring back Ennis to be a hunter with Cole.

[SueB]

I figure the Stynes may be around in S11. Sort of Supernatural CHAOS.

I'm putting my faith in Jensen Ackles. He wouldn't like a story that screwed Jared over. So I'm going to guess Sam is not going to look horrible.

And yes, I've read more than my share of 'Dean is evil due to Gadreel possession' posts.

I am very bi-bro so I think neither is evil and want a good story for both.

[SueB]

Episode descriptions;

 

 

SUPERNATURAL
“Dark Dynasty” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

THE WINCHESTERS MEET THE STYNES — Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) investigate a bizarre murder and realize the killer bears the same tattoo as those from the Styne family. Eldon Styne (guest star David Hoflin) attacks Dean and a brutal fight ensues. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) acts as referee when Charlie (guest star Felicia Day) and Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell) are forced to work together on the Book of the Damned. Crowley (Mark Sheppard) discovers his mother is missing and knows she’s up to something so he turns to an old enemy for help. Robert Singer directed this episode written by Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner (#1021). Original airdate 5/6/2015.

 

 

 

SUPERNATURAL
“The Prisoner” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

DEAN IS ON A RAMPAGE — When it comes to the Stynes, Dean (Jensen Ackles) decides to take matters into his own hands. Sam (Jared Padalecki) tries to come to terms with his decision. Thomas J. Wright directed this episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1021). Original airdate 5/13/2015.

So... here's my current spec-o-matic guess-timates (regarding the big topics):

- Angel Heart: Dean successfully is "used" in taking out a Big Bad Angel with lotsa powers.  "Used" from the perspective that Cas calls for help and Dean doesn't hold back when taking out the Angel.  Unlike when he took out Cain, he's a little more reckless (like he was with the vamp nest) in using his powers.

- Dark Dynasty: This may or maynot be the end of Rowena but if she's going to die, this might be it.  And Crowley will ultimately not be happy about it (even though he kicked her out).  I think they find something for Sam to use to potentially control Dean (and it's going to involve that faux tattoo on JP's arm IMO -- Styne's had tattoo...the Mark is tattoo-like...seems body art is required here).  Styne's do something evil that propels into the next episode.

- The Prisoner: Dean crosses the line with the Styne and Sammy invokes some dark magic that makes Dean his "prisoner".  Maybe Sam thinks he's buying time. I anticipate much character verbal diarrhea that causes feels.

- My Brother's Keeper: Honestly, I don't know who does what to whom... but since Misha said there's a sigh of relief and then "oh shit", I'm thinking the Mark get removed and then Death may show up with "Hello, Dean." or "Hello, Sam" as the end?  Maybe that's not enough of a cliffhanger...just spitballin' here.

[catrox14]

I'm starting to think that the "oh shit" moment is Lucifer Rising ...Again. 

 

My crack spec today is that removing the Mark opens the Cage. Since Cain was the most powerful demon in the universe AFAIK he was killing as the Mark /Lucifer wanted him to do. Even though he stopped killing for a long time, he never removed the Mark or possibly even tried to remove, so Lucifer's Cage stayed closed, because his Mark is still out there with the potential to kill as it wants.

 

Now if Cain is really most sincerely dead, then the only other person with the Mark and is the most connected to Lucifer is Dean.  If Dean removes the Mark then Lucifer comes back out and it restarts the Apocalypse.  And it becomes the battle to stop Lucifer from trying to possess his favorite meatsuit again in s11.

 

I was thinking about the title card this year.  Last year they fooled most of us by showing an eye as part of the title card, but it was so stealthy it wasn't noticed or related to Dean's eyes being black, but they were trolling us the ENTIRE time.   Now with this title card, it's all about that blue color bursting through the black smoke. I think it's telling us that Cas will use his grace to finally rid Dean of the Mark.  I think Cas is going to really truly die this time OR maybe he chooses to be human forever.

 

As for a cliffhanger...I was also thinking about Dean saying he's wants sand between his toes and to take a vacation 

 

Everything could be resolved, Dean loses the Mark and the boys get in the car and drive away.  Then it cuts to a brief glimpse of a bloodied Cas and Death in Heaven standing in the Row of Heavenly Pods with Cas looking at one of the pods...with a really sad face.....but we don't see what he's looking at exactly. 

 

Then we get a shot of the boys on the beach, toes in the sand, beers in their hands, smiling at each other..talking about John and Mary...and their lives..reminiscing or lamenting or both.

 

Then it cuts back to the Heavenly Pods again with Cas opening a door to one of the pods. Then it cuts back to the boys on the beach and it fades to white (a la Six Feet Under) with the credits in black. 

 

We are left to decide if the boys are in Heaven or on Earth....the ultimate cliffhanger. Did they go on vacation....or permanent vacation?  Is Cas opening his own pod in Heaven because he's dead now, or is he opening the door to visit the boys in their pod?  That could serve as either a season finale or a series finale.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by catrox14

[oliverwendell]

 

If Dean removes the Mark then Lucifer comes back out and it restarts the Apocalypse.  And it becomes the battle to stop Lucifer from trying to possess his favorite meatsuit again in s11.

 

This does make sense, but I don't think the writers will go to the Apocalypse well again.  Partly because it was the main focus of the show for five years, partly because it was Kripke's thing, and partly because, even though they like their repetitions and parallels, they don't want to look as though they can't think of their own stories.

 

But I wouldn't be surprised if Lucifer makes an appearance before the end, since he created the Mark.  My current thinking is that Sam makes a deal with Lucifer to remove the Mark (the "sigh of relief" moment), but then Sam has to pay that debt, which probably involves his soul in eternal torment, yadda yadda (the "oh shit" moment).  I also still think Dean is going to have to kill Sam to save him from Lucifer, as Cain had to kill Abel.  So maybe that's the "they went there" moment we've also heard about:  Dean realizes what Sam has done and has no choice but to send him to Heaven to escape Lucifer.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by fourteenwords

[SueB]

Yeah...the ending is going to hurt and so I'm not sure I've figured it out yet.

[SueB]

In perhaps a blinding statement of the obvious....it occurred to me that they've set up:

- Sam killing Crowley .. FOR DEAN

- Cas somehow dying .. FOR DEAN

- Sam dying or personality being killed ...FOR DEAN

 

Making Cain correct, whether or not Dean raises a physical hand.

 

That doesn't mean it's ON Dean, but of course Dean would believe that ultimately he was responsible for their deaths.

 

File this under the Kim Manners: give them what they expect but not in the way they expect it.

[NoWillToResist]

So, there's a pic floating around and it seems to be screenshot of the S10 gag reel at the wrap party. Cas has blood under his eyes. Many have said that it resembles what happened to some people that Rowena had previous put spells on. If so, either Rowena is powerful enough to put the whammy on an angel, or Cas is human at that point.

 

For me, what it all comes down to is whether TPTB plan to have S11 be just the brothers. I'm feeling quite pessimistic these days, so I'm going throw out my doomsday scenario and suggest that Cas gives up his grace tor remove the Mark from Dean (brought on by Misha's comment that the audience will breathe a happy sigh) and becomes human. Based on his ensuing "and then everything goes to shit", we'll barely be done celebrating that before Rowena puts a spell on him (now that he's vulnerable to attack). We know that Rowena is annoyed at Dean for his "influence" on Crowley, so she tries to make Cas kill Dean. As a human, Cas cannot break the spell (unlike the situation with Naomi). Crowley kills Cas to save Dean (no hardship for him), Dean kills Crowley (easy choice for him, IMO), and Sam kills Rowena. Sam and Dean are the only ones who walk out of there alive, united against some new big bad for S11.

 

Moving forward, the only distractions from bro time are the rarely seen mom figure and Charlie (neither of whom are a perceived 'danger' to the boys' bond).

 

I don't know why I feel that TPTB want to jettison the cast and return to just Sam and Dean, but I've been feeling that for a while. I hope like hell I'm wrong.

[Omegamom]

FWIW, I read a rumor that Mark Pelligrino shows up in a pic or two from the wrap party. I have very carefully not looked at the gag reel or pics from the party, which is killing me, but this fits in with my theory: Sam is going to use a spell from the BOTD, and he has to bargain with Lucifer (the source of the MOC) to get it removed (return to the source).

I only started watching early this year--lovely, lovely Netflix binging!--and I'm DYING now that I've caught up, and have absolutely no idea how I will survive the summer. ;-)

[catrox14]

Welcome to the madness. At least you'll have a support system during your first live Hellatus.

I was wondering if the blood that Dean used is demon tainted and that maybe something terrible happens because Dean's blood is not pure human blood anymore. OHHHHH on that note....what if Dean has been secretly shooting up demon blood ....

.

Oh maybe Dean kills Cas :( because Rowena turns Cas into her attack dog on Sam. In order to protect Sam he has to kill Cas :( but then he's so fucked up from killing Cas he just decides to go full on demon!Dean for s11 to go after Crowley and Rowena for killing Cas.  

Edited April 25, 2015 by catrox14

[Wynne88]

I can't see them killing off Cas at all (permanently, anyway), and I think that either Crowley or Rowena will survive as well.  Giving Castiel and Crowley their separate story lines this season lightened the workload quite a bit for Jared and Jensen, even if a lot of people - including me - thought it really bogged things down.  At least the different arcs are starting to come together now.  I can't see them being enthusiastic about going back to a heavier constant workload which is what will happen if they kill off all the supporting characters.

[catrox14]

The boys might be okay with doing a heavier workload if they know it's the last season. As far as going back to "brothers only" adventures, I think that would be in response to a large portion of the fanbase that wants those days of yore again.

 

Edited April 25, 2015 by catrox14

[GirlyGeek]

I've been trying to figure out how this season is going to end...and NOT feel like just a re-tread of the end of Season 9. Already this season, while being pretty awesome, has been a sort of rerun of last season, just with different stakes and different goals.

Season 9 Dean gets MOC and is on a revenge path. Ends with Dean dying and then becoming a demon

Season 10, Sam on warpath to fix Dean as Demon, Dean still has MOC, but trying NOT to become a demon again, but pretty convinced he knows where his path ends up. Sam on a mission to not let that happen

I'm not one to keep track of which brother gets the storyline, but we've had Dean dealing with the MOC for a season and a half now. Judging by how the writers typically act, it's about time for things to get turned upside down.

There's a lot of conjecture about Dean becoming a demon again, killing everyone (Cass, Sam, Crowley, etc), or Dean getting killed to stop the MOC, but I'm not feeling that will happen. Mostly because it will put us back to square one, basically back to the beginning of S 10, except with Dean evil and no one left (in his life) to care/save him. Plus, that'd be setting us up for Yet another year of demon Dean/Dean evil, and we've been down that road.

Doesn't mean I have a good alternative, but I don't see this going toward demon Dean again. At least not as end game for the season.

[catrox14]

Despite the promotion of the 'year of the Deanmon" by the CW we had 3 episodes of demon!Dean and one was spent curing him That's all. I don't think demon!Dean and MoC!Dean are equivalent even though they came from the MoC plot line. They didn't do anything with demon!Dean really. That's why I hope we get a revisit before ending it altogether.

[GirlyGeek]

Oh I don't disagree. But TPTB would have to really ramp up DemonDean to make it both interesting and different than what we did already see. And I don't mean more karaokeDean.

There has to be a payoff of this storyline: the MOC gets cured, Dean dies/becomes a demon or worse again, the prophecy of Cain comes true (Dean kills everyone) or they overcome it all somehow.

I just don't see how, in the time remaining, the payoff will be shown this season? And, at the same time, how the cliffhanger of the season will feel different than last season if we do indeed end up with Dean as demon again.

The difference might be the body count, but then again, who'll be left to fix it all?

Edited April 25, 2015 by GirlyGeek

[catrox14]

I think the nature of demon!Dean and what motivates him would/could be different. The first time we saw him it was because he just didn't want to deal with anything anymore in Black. He was like fuck it, i'm party!Dean. But as we progressed into Riechenbach, demon!Dean was becoming more dark and unhinged.  He was challenging Crowley.  He kicked Cole's ass. He was on a trajectory to IMO becoming something to be reckoned with more so than even Crowley. He tried to kill Sam and he would have if Cas didn't show up. And Crowley is the one that gave Cas enough grace to be strong enough to deal with Dean.  And now that Dean betrayed Crowley, IMO Crowley has a score to settle again. He tried to kill Sam but he might now have gained back enough humanity to somehow decide to use his demonity to his advantage. 

 

That's just one way they could revisit it.  Gods , am I going to end up writing demon!Dean fic.  LOLOLOL AT ME and my apoplexy when he was turned into a demon. 

[rue721]

I like how Dean was written (and performed) in this last episode, and based on how he seemed, I'm hoping/predicting that they're ramping up for him to do something pretty bad/shocking and utterly unlike his (normal) self. Which imo is likely to be to kill Sam, since what could be more unlike (normal) Dean than that?

[SueB]

"DEAN IS ON A RAMPAGE" ... sort of seals the deal for me that he may not be a demon but he'll be vicious.  It just occurred to me... what if they kill off Charlie?  I would be pissed.  Not just because I LIKE Charlie but because it's a lazy emotional moment.  But I could see Dean losing his nut over that.  Maybe she's just like REALLY injured or something and has to be sent away to be protected. IDK.  I just know that something bad happening to Charlie would be enough for Dean to lose his nut.

[catrox14]

Robbie Thompson will never kill his avatar. Plus I don't think he'll ever survive the backlash from Felicia fans. 

[Aeryn13]

 

Robbie Thompson will never kill his avatar.

 

The next Charlie-episode is done by the nepotism duo. I found that curious. In retrospect it might have been because he flat-out refused to do it. But it`s really not his call to make in the end. 

[GirlyGeek]

I pondered the same thing a few episodes back. Dean would not deal well with losing Charlie (or being the cause of Charlie being hurt/dead).

I personally love Charlie and would be pretty upset if that happened. Part of me thinks though that Charlie and Jodi are going to make it through this season, and Cass and Crowley aren't.

I do know this is going to be a tough hiatus.

Since I've been re watching season 10 from the beginning, I'm inclined to notice that there have been some themes in each episode that may be pointing toward where things are going. Or it may just be red herrings that the writers want us to think it's the way things will be going...?

Maybe every season has themes and markers along the way and I've just never bothered to notice, but this season most episodes have hit on certain chords of

-Choices, between being a monster/evil, and whether or not you really have the choice

-And close on that same thought, one person walking the line of being a monster but dragging another into being a monster and not being able to control them

-Inevitability, as in Dean accepting his fate

-Several mentions of something along the lines of 'you can do everything right and not always be able to save/be saved"

-And the very blatant parallel of Sam choosing to not burn the journal from the convent and that choice saving Dean, vs Sam not burning the BOTD

Anyway, I'm sure there's more, but I can be kinda dense, lol

Another thing that jumped out at me during rewatch was

-Bringing up Adam, randomly after all these years, and therefore hell/the cage/lucifer

-The dad/John references, though there were some last season too

-And maybe this was discussed in the episode thread, but the grand coven lady mentioning more than once that the American men of letters were taken out, and that the witches artifacts were spread to all the MOL bunkers around the world... Wonder if other MOL will step in at some point?

Ok, I'm done rambling.

Edited April 25, 2015 by GirlyGeek

[catrox14]

No, it's not his call but he is an producer now too so he might have a bit more leverage than just as a writer. I've started thinking that the Nepotism Duo writers do the big plot episodes which are always overstuffed.  I'm trying to think, have they killed off characters in their scripts before? I can't remember.

 

Edited April 25, 2015 by catrox14

[7kstar]

"DEAN IS ON A RAMPAGE" ... sort of seals the deal for me that he may not be a demon but he'll be vicious.  It just occurred to me... what if they kill off Charlie?  I would be pissed.  Not just because I LIKE Charlie but because it's a lazy emotional moment.  But I could see Dean losing his nut over that.  Maybe she's just like REALLY injured or something and has to be sent away to be protected. IDK.  I just know that something bad happening to Charlie would be enough for Dean to lose his nut.

Which is how I felt when they killed off Kevin.  It was lazy and oh here's a shock for you.  It had no emotional bite for me...I didn't care.  Another they need to watch out for, killing off too many can have a backlash.  I wonder if "Greys" will feel that next season, but they lost me as a viewer a long time ago because of the too many death issue.  "Lost" lost me for the same reason.

 

It's another reason I hated season 7 and 8.  I'll watch to the end, but if they do kill off someone for shock value, I won't be watching it live anymore.  I hope I'm wrong.  :(

[SueB]

Yep. Officially having kittens over this dark thought.  My mind keeps arguing that they are not THAT stupid. But it's just the kind of parallel they love. Charlie getting killed because Sam is saving Dean is a parallel for Kevin being killed because Dean saved Sam. I won't be resting until after Charlie is safe.  I think there would be a ton of rage-quit and deservedly so.  

 

So... I'm banking on *sigh* Carver not being that stupid. 

[GirlyGeek]

YOU GUYS! Stopstopstop :(

I like Charlie. I didn't like Kevin. There is no parallel. Lalalalalala

[SueB]

I accept your headcanon GirlyGeek!

[catrox14]

Guys. I really truly don't believe the show will kill off Charlie.  They would lose too many Felicia fans. And they would be killing off the only female and gay character they have ever had. I just don't believe they will do that.  It would too much. 

 

I think they would kill off Cas before Charlie. So honestly. I would expect them to kill Jody or Donna before Charlie. I really think Charlie is safe.  But I won't bet my eye teeth on it.

 

Also, I never though Kevin's death was meaningless or for shock value. He was truly innocent and Dean's choices got an innocent person killed. Kevin did not choose the life he got.  Charlie did have a choice,which btw , really pissed me off when they had her all lamenting "Oh how did I get here" in BotD.   Girl you opted in for your frakking quest and went off on your stupid Oz adventure which is why you became DarkCharlie. If anything I wonder if they will have Dark!Charlie come back and try to kill Cas.

 

Kevin was chosen by God and couldn't say no if he wanted too. So for me that right there makes Charlie less likely of a parallel. I think Dean would be just as upset if they killed off Jody. Of course, if Charlie does die, I won't be upset but I sure don't want to experience the backlash of fandom so I hope they don't kill her.

Edited April 26, 2015 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

 

Guys. I really truly don't believe the show will kill off Charlie.  They would lose too many Felicia fans.

 

Her episodes don`t make any kind of dent in the ratings and they have proven they don`t care about internet grumblings all that much so I say it is a possibility. If Carver and/or Singer wanted it for lame parallel reasons, Thompson could have thrown as many tantrums as he wanted, it wouldn`t have helped.

 

Previously, I was of the "they will never kill her" mindset, too and it still might be the case but the summary for 22 says Dean is on a rampage against the Stynes and Sam has to come to terms with a decision he made. Both seem specific. Dean will hardly get bent out of shape about the Stynes attacking him and Sam made several decisions already.

 

We know in the previoius episode Charlie is working with Rowena to decode the book, with Cas as referee, So obviously, Sam will make the decision to bring in both Cas and Charlie on his secret about the book. What if Rowena gets free and kills Charlie when somehow Cas is distracted. Or the Stynes track the book and find them. Or both. Rowena does the deed, then disappears just when the Stynes do appear. Dean, not being in the know, would think the Stynes did it and swear bloody vengeance. And Sam would question his decision to bring in Charlie, got to Rowena, not burn the book or all three.        

[SueB]

Well I'm just hoping for injured but alive.  The Stynes chased her for weeks.  I'm not happy they let her just run off on her own in the first place.  

[Demented Daisy]

FWIW, I read a rumor that Mark Pelligrino shows up in a pic or two from the wrap party. 

 

Here is the picture mentioned (I won't post it here since you said you're trying to avoid pics from the party):

 

http://imgur.com/5KHbqXK

 

BTW, pickle backs do kill the whiskey burn.  Friends and I used to do them all the time at karaoke because it made the singing easier.  ;-)

[Demented Daisy]

Okay, so thinking about Lucifer and Death.  (On the off chance they're both in the season finale.)

 

Sam and Dean realize they can't possibly break the cage open, but Death can enter and exit the cage at will.  So, they summon Death and ask him to break Lucifer out to remove the Mark.

 

Now, Death is not happy with this idea.  What can they offer him that would convince him to do this favor for the Winchesters?

[catrox14]

Well I'm just hoping for injured but alive.  The Stynes chased her for weeks.  I'm not happy they let her just run off on her own in the first place.  

 

 

I've seen this "the boys let Charlie go off by herself " complaint in fandom in general and I just don't understand it. Whenever Dean suggested she doesn't remain involved, she shuts him down. She's an adult in her 20s. She's not a teenager despite her clothing and being a nerd and the occasional regression into child-like behavior.  Charlie has always made her own choices from the get-go.

 

She wasn't conscripted into the Hunter life.  She had the option to not get involved in the Dick Roman fight. They boys told her didn't have to do anything, but she chose to help and the boys did their best to make sure they could protect her.  She suffered a broken arm and told the boys to get lost and never contact her again and called them "bitches" on her way out. She meant it.

 

When they showed up in LARP and the Real Girl she was pissed off that they were in her life again because it meant monsters. Once they had the pertinent information for the case,  Dean advised her to stand down, and when Dean and Sam started arguing about her being involved, she pointed out that it was HER choice and she needed to be Queen and save her kingdom.  After that was resolved, Charlie again told them to get lost and went back to her life.

 

In Pac-Man Fever Charlie left of her own accord after being attacked by the Djinn and needed to find her life after her Mom died.

 

They called her for computer help in Slumber Party.  Yet by the end of the episode she had been killed and resurrected and then she killed the Wicked Witch. She announced that she was so bored in her life that she needed a quest and went off with Dorothy to Oz, ignoring the concerns voiced by Dean about her leaving.   When she came back from Oz, she was SuperCharlie who apparently  won the Oz War by herself as Dark!Charlie and then murdered the guy that killed her parents.  She took it upon her herself to go off to find the Book of the Damned so she could help Dean. Given that she had just stood toe to toe with MoC!Dean in a vicious fight I don't think they were that concerned about her ability to take care of herself. 

 

I honestly do not understand what more Sam and Dean could have done to stop her.  Dean couldn't go off with her, because he didn't trust himself around her.  Sam wasn't going to leave Dean alone. If they did intervene, then the charges of "men taking away Charlie's agency"  would rear up. If they let her go, then they are assholes for letting her make her own choices.  They can't really win either way. 

[GirlyGeek]

Yep, I agree. Charlie's a grown woman and can make her own choices. I never had a problem with the boys "letting" her go off to find the book.

And not to mention, it's not like the Winchesters had knowledge that this book was evil or heavily guarded or tied to some crazy family. for all they knew, Charlie was going on a library tour around the world.

Okay, so thinking about Lucifer and Death. (On the off chance they're both in the season finale.)

Sam and Dean realize they can't possibly break the cage open, but Death can enter and exit the cage at will. So, they summon Death and ask him to break Lucifer out to remove the Mark.

Now, Death is not happy with this idea. What can they offer him that would convince him to do this favor for the Winchesters?

I would hope that the boys would never cross this line. Yes, saving Dean is important, but I would hope that they would BOTH have a problem with messing around with the cage or lucifer...even for Deans sake. There is some amount of acceptable collateral damage, IMHO. Letting lucifer out of the cage (or even the possibility of it) is too far.

[Demented Daisy]

I would hope that the boys would never cross this line. Yes, saving Dean is important, but I would hope that they would BOTH have a problem with messing around with the cage or lucifer...even for Deans sake. There is some amount of acceptable collateral damage, IMHO. Letting lucifer out of the cage (or even the possibility of it) is too far.

 

 

I agree.  Just like I think that Dean killing Sam is not possible.  Even accidentally.  Self-sacrifice seems to be the only acceptable solution.  Perhaps Death knows that if Dean kills himself with the Blade, it won't kill him, but it will destroy the Mark.  It's been done before, but what hasn't on this show?

 

But, hey, maybe TPTB have thought of an option I haven't.  

[catrox14]

If I'm not giving Carver too much credit, I wonder if he's going to make a call back to S8 when Cas told Meg that if words in a book were in a certain order it could do something to him. And that was when he was still an angel. I think Rowena knows there is a spell in the codex that Cas is going to read whilst trying to help Charlie which is how he ends up with those bloody eyes in the gag reel.  She's going to sic Cas on Sam because sicing him on Dean is pointless. Sam is Dean's weak spot. 

 

Oh gods. This ending is going to destroy us, isn't it? :(

Edited April 27, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

Please just no (more) stupid Sam or Samsel in distress or Dean suffering due to stupid Sam and I'll take it. Not much to ask for, so I'm gonna try to be confident.

[7kstar]

I'm not excited about this week's.  Maybe it will be better than the preview...Well at least we got 2 in a row.  Some badass Cas would be nice. 

 

Please don't make the good guys stupid so they lose.

[catrox14]

I'm distracted by the recasting of the mother :(.

[GirlyGeek]

Oh gods. This ending is going to destroy us, isn't it? :(

Yes.

My son is finishing his season 10 rewatch and is watching halt and catch fire. The girl mentions how the brother is driving his brothers truck, and Dean explains to Sam how 'it's a thing' people do to honor the memory of the deceased.

Of course I pictured a possible last scene of this season: Sam driving Baby to the beach to do the vacation Dean wanted. Alone. :(

[catrox14]

 

Of course I pictured a possible last scene of this season: Sam driving Baby to the beach to do the vacation Dean wanted. Alone. :(

 

WHY, why would you do that? :(. I'm not crying at all.

[AwesomO4000]

My son is finishing his season 10 rewatch and is watching halt and catch fire. The girl mentions how the brother is driving his brothers truck, and Dean explains to Sam how 'it's a thing' people do to honor the memory of the deceased.

Of course I pictured a possible last scene of this season: Sam driving Baby to the beach to do the vacation Dean wanted. Alone. :(

 

WHY, why would you do that? :(. I'm not crying at all.

 

I would only want it as part of my scenario on how the show could end I've summarized here (brought over from the speculation without spoilers thread):

 

So how I'd like the show to end... big epic battle - it could be to restore heaven, or that could already be done some other way. They succeed, but Dean is killed. He ends up in heaven where Castiel and Ash sometimes visit him. Sam grieves, but also is resolved and has a plan. After a couple of years of Sam continuing the job periodically, he is also killed. Ash lets Dean know that Sam has died so Dean gets into Baby to travel the road. At first he doesn't find Sam, but finally Dean goes by the field from "Dark Side of the Moon" and sees fireworks in the air. Maybe "Knocking on Heaven's Door" plays. Dean decides to stop and investigate and as he looks into the field, instead of seeing teenage Sam dancing in the field, he sees Sam more like the way he remembered him when Dean died, maybe a couple of years older and he sees himself as a teen from the memory. As he walks up and Sam sees him, the memory Dean fades and Sam comes over saying "I knew you'd show up eventually." They hug, then watch the fireworks a bit. They talk briefly about what are they going to do now that they are stuck in Memorex heaven. Sam says "we could go to Amsterdam?" * Dean is confused. "Sam we never went to Amsterdam. Remember? You were all prissy about the coffee shops with no coffee." Sam smiles. "I know Dean, but I went." Sam mentions some other places, and then "and I went to Tijuana too." Dean, teasingly: "Donkey show?" Sam: "Definitely not." Dean amusedly: "Ehn, hardly seems worth it, then." ** Sam snorts, smiles and shakes his head. Dean notices the fireworks crescendo. "We should probably get out of here before the field catches fire." Sam: "Good idea." They get into the Impala, getting themselves settled in and then share a look. After a moment - Sam: "So where do you want to go, Dean?" Dean: "We got all the time in the world. So, let's just see where the road takes us for a while." They go speeding down the road... fade to black.

 

* If canon hadn't been messed up, it would've been the Grand Canyon as the first mention.

 

** I can imagine Jensen pulling it off perfectly.

 

So therefore the beach could be one of the memories Sam does so he can share it with Dean in heaven.

 

Otherwise nope... Do Not Want.

[catrox14]

I don't understand why not even if they don't share it. It would be even more heartwrenching.  And as much as I think the boys should die together....I can make a case for Sam surviving without Dean.