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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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rue721

rue721

I am so hungry right now that the only thing I'm getting from that pic is that 24hr pizza delivery is a fantastic idea and where do they have THAT?!

I guess the episode is taking place in a city? A real one, not the "walkable but otherwise generic small town" that most of the eps take place in.

I'm now on a flight of fancy about the Winchesters going to NYC. But that would be such a great idea! They could take that "beach vacation" they talked about in the last episode by heading out for a day trip to Coney Island! Say what you will about NY, but they do have good pizza and diner food up there. And - the best part - the Winchesters would just HAVE to go to a club/see a band play. Live music on the show would be such a treat! And all that makes me think that maybe New York would be the perfect place for Dean to indulge his final requests anyway.

In general, I'm hopeful that the last couple episodes could have some really good musical moments, because it seems like the show has really upped its game this season in regard to the music! Or at least, my fingers are crossed!

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

Someone took a pic with Jared at a Seattle Mariners game and he was totally dressed like Sam and my little baseball loving brain thought OH PLEASE LET THEM BE FILMING AT THE GAME  which might set that alley scene in Seattle.

 

I can't see Dean in NYC given his traumatic experience that John had to save him from...UNLESS that was foreshadowing of him going to NYC for John reasons? 

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rue721

rue721

If the Winchesters avoided going anyplace anything traumatic had happened to them, they couldn't go ANYWHERE! :P

 

Every picture I've seen of JP in his regular life, he's not dressed anything like Sam (he's in a T-shirt and beanie in literally every picture I can remember) -- so maybe he *was* dressed for filming in that Seattle picture you saw? Can't say anything about Seattle though, I've never been there. All I know about it is that they have good fish. And coffee. And grunge music. OMG NOW I REALLY WANT THEM TO DO A STORY THERE, those are all things I like, too. :P.

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kimrey

kimrey

(edited)

I doubt they were filming at the game. Although he WAS dressed like Sam. But we know from his tweet yesterday that he was filming earlier in the day so maybe he just didn't change before he went.

So I'm thinking this big fight leads to Dean being taken by the Stynes. Since 22 is called The Prisoner, that could be referring to Dean. If so, I bet the hold him until Sam brings them the book. But that's just speculation!

Edited by kimrey
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SueB

SueB

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So I'm thinking this big fight leads to Dean being taken by the Stynes. Since 22 is called The Prisoner, that could be referring to Dean. If so, I bet the hold him until Sam brings them the book. But that's just speculation!

Which would be Yet Another Parallel (YAP!  Booyah...coined an acronym!) as Sam was held hostage to draw out Dean.  Of course Demon!Dean said "kill him".  I gotta say, one of the lines that still makes me chuckle from "Reichenbach" was "Did you miss?"  Don't ask me why...it just hit my funnybone.

 

The thing I find interesting is that Sam clearly tells Charlie and Cas about holding onto the Book of the Damned.  Now I get Cas going Shady Saddy to save Dean, but Charlie should be throwing in a "lies are bad!" objection at least.  It must be pretty desperate for her to go along at this juncture.  

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

You know. There is a twisted little part of my soul that kind of wants to see a bad guy kill Dean only to have him resurrect as demon!Dean and then they are totally fucked.  Like they determine he's dead, but then he opens his eyes and does that fucking awesome growl like he did in Soul Survivor and all they can say is...."Oh shit".

 

And then demon!Dean plays with his food before he kills them all.

Edited by catrox14
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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

Okay, new to the site guys, but long time Supernatural fan.

 

My take on the pics, isn't pizza Death's favorite food?

 

You guys are all crazy! And I'm happy to find like-minded people! Thank you!

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

So thinking about the book of the damned.  I've been perusing tumblr....and so many specs out there.  But a couple of points I read elsewhere are very interesting and by interesting I mean soul destroying. 

 

--That Sam is actually going to end up being Cain. Not sure what I think about that...

--That the Book is the Human Tablet.....

--The Book of the Damned will contain something that kills Cas. They mentioned back in Goodbye Stranger when Cas told Meg that if words in a book were in a certain order it would kill him...

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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Okay, new to the site guys, but long time Supernatural fan.

 

My take on the pics, isn't pizza Death's favorite food?

 

You guys are all crazy! And I'm happy to find like-minded people! Thank you!

Well the excellence of the Pizza in Chicago was an apparent contributor to Chicago's continued existence... 

But I think Death only shows up in the finale (10.23) and these pics are from 10.21 because they are filming out of sequence to accommodate Felicia Day's schedule.

 

All that lighting in that instagram sure looks "Biblical" to me.  Bits about 10.21 that have me thinking:

- It's titled "The Prisoner" -- speculation: if Dean was taken prisoner, that would be enough to cause Sam/Cas/Charlie to do some Book of the Damned stuff and thus have some Biblical lightening storms

- Misha Collins said something about them (Sam/Cas/Charlie) being really sketchy towards the end of the season. Seems to me, anything involved in using the Book of the Damned qualifies.

- We know the Stynes are back and grabbing a hold of Dean in the alley.  Is there ANYWAY to make that sentence not be ready in a naughty fashion? Just me then?

 

For this week's ep:

- Since Benny calls Dean "Steve", I have NO idea what is going on .  Sure seems hallucination but I don't know.

- I love the sneak peek with Rowena just randomly reeling off dangerous spells.  I also love that she's a sleepy head.

 

 

catrox14: I don't think the Book can qualify as the Human tablet because it wasn't written by God via Metatron.  Although Metatron getting a hold of the Demon tablet sure puts the whole tablet thing back in play.  And I'd have gone thru the rest of that library to see what else Metatron tucked in there. 

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Since Benny calls Dean "Steve", I have NO idea what is going on .  Sure seems hallucination but I don't know.

 

I'm wearing you down...welcome to the dark side SueB!

 

 

 

--That the Book is the Human Tablet.....

 

That would be interesting, but would humans have a tablet? The tablets were written in the defense of mankind, so I'd be surprised if there was a human tablet...maybe though...I don't know.

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

Thank you Awesom,catrox, and SueB! I miss TWoP, but this place has filled the void!

 

Mick and I have watched Supernatural since day one, it's our "guilty pleasure"

 

Question, has it been renewed for season 11? I can't lose Breaking Bad, Mad Men, and Supernatural all in one year!

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Sneak Peek from Carver for the Werther Project

 

Oh Sam.  This is a terrible idea. 

 

Okay, look, yes I'm obsessed with demon!Dean and I know I read into probably way too much stuff, but the way Jensen is playing this scene in the car is almost EXACTLY like the scene with Lester when he was demon!Dean. That side-eye he gives Sam is practically identical to the one he gave Lester.  Lord help me.

 

https://www.facebook.com/Supernatural

Edited by catrox14
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GirlyGeek

GirlyGeek

I agree Catrox14.  Jensen is playing that a bit like Demon Dean.  Maybe it just seems that way out of context, but its like he's playing with Sam when he gets into the car, and Sam looks uncomfortable (and recoils against the door a bit)  when Dean gets in.  hmmm

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I agree Catrox14. Jensen is playing that a bit like Demon Dean. Maybe it just seems that way out of context, but its like he's playing with Sam when he gets into the car, and Sam looks uncomfortable (and recoils against the door a bit) when Dean gets in. hmmm

Yes exactly. Dean knows Sam is up to something. I just cannot remember a time before demon! Dean that Dean ever had that particular kind of look even when he suspicioned something.

Edited by catrox14
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rue721

rue721

Wait, which sneak peek are you guys talking about? The only one I'm seeing on the facebook page is when Sam calls Rowena too early in the morning.

 

I have to admit, Rowena has really grown on me. Ruth Connell is just so adorable.

 

Also, I like her with Sam. I know I KNOW, weird-o crack!ship. But they look great together, and even in that phone conversation, they've got chemistry!

 

Plus, how wonderful would it be if Sam became Crowley's stepfather. I would die laughing.

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7kstar

7kstar

(edited)

looks like something happens to Sam and Dean shows up at the wrong time and goes from Pizza Bar & Grill to Purgatory.  Still can't figure out who is the girl, because she looks really really familiar. 

 

I think Demon dean is lurking just beneath the surface and once Dean gets knocked out he can't control it anymore and watch out here come Deannnny.  Or Demon Dean. 

 

I just hope the ep lives up to the expectations.  I mean the last one was really good, so this one needs to be the same.

 

@Rue 721 -- Wait, which sneak peek are you guys talking about? The only one I'm seeing on the facebook page is when Sam calls Rowena too early in the morning.

You cracked me up.  Dean's worst nightmare.    Look at the top of the page on the left side, there is a HD promo for next week.  You can pause it and move it slowly to get a few more details.  That's one that shows Benny and Dean together again.

Edited by 7kstar
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GirlyGeek

GirlyGeek

(edited)

Wait, which sneak peek are you guys talking about? The only one I'm seeing on the facebook page is when Sam calls Rowena too early in the morning.

 

 

Look at the top of the page on the left side, there is a HD promo for next week.  You can pause it and move it slowly to get a few more details.  That's one that shows Benny and Dean together again.

 

No, I think we're talking about the newer one in the feed on the supernatural page.  It says: 'What are the terms of this devil's bargain? Executive Producer Jeremy Carver takes us inside Wednesday's all new ‪#‎Supernatural‬.' then has a video with some behind the scenes stuff and a small clip of Sam in the car and Dean joining him.

I can't figure out how to link directly to it.

 

Ok maybe this:  

or

http://cwtv.com/shows/supernatural/inside-supernatural-the-werther-project/?play=6104226f-dadc-49ce-9944-a3dac06b2e9f

Edited by GirlyGeek
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GirlyGeek

GirlyGeek

Ha ha, between the three of us cross posting at the same time, I'm sure we've got it covered!  ;)

 

Yeah, like I said, out of context I *could* see a little Demon-y Dean in that clip, but I could be persuaded to see it as "very annoyed, what the hell are you doing, Sammy" kind of Dean.  But I agree that he looked a little... off.  And that Sam almost looked... nervous (?) when Dean got into the car?  Which I guess could be for many reasons.

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catrox14

catrox14

It's his expression, and the look in his eyes. The snarky smile. The attitude that reminded me very much of demon!Dean. I'm not saying that it WAS demon!Dean if that is what anyone took out of my comment. It just really jumped out at me. JMHO

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7kstar

7kstar

Well it helps when you see the right clip.  lol

 

I see the smirk but my guess it is the "what are you doing little brother" vibe more than Demon Dean.  But it definitely can require more research. 

 

I mean it's not a happy go lucky smile, but I think I know you're up to something now just what is it.  The real question is what has Dean been doing prior to this moment? 

 

Sam looks guilty and with egg on his face so to speak....so I'm going for the whimpy need more info before I decide.  But something is a little off.

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SueB

SueB

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I see what your saying catrox14.  He definitely looks like he's caught out Sammy and Sam looks busted.  But with Carver saying Sam's still hiding stuff by the end, I'd say somehow he manages to keep the big stuff (the Book) a secret.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

I was having weird dreams last night and kept waking up after I died in them, so I was thinking of Supernatural as I was trying to go back to sleep. Some thinky thoughts:

  • I now wonder if what Crowley was trying to do with injecting Kevin's blood while he was chained up in the panic room was him trying to make himself more human so he could escape the devil's trap and cuffs like Dean did in Soul Survivor? Is that why he insisted on Kevin's blood--thinking it would be more "purified" because Kevin was a prophet and an innocent for the most part? I was suspicious of his blood addiction anyway, but now I'm wondering if he has been running a long con ever since they tried to cure him? He's been giving me serious vibes that's he's got something cooking in the revenge department lately. I had thought his getting Dean to take the MoC was more than just getting him to kill Abaddon and turn into a demon, but was also a screw you to Sam for trying to cure him--too bad it backfired with Demon Dean being uncontrollable--but now I wonder if there was even more to it?
  • I'm also wondering if this next episode is gonna be this S10's Point of No Return? I haven't seen the blatant bizarro-ness this season as I have over the previous two, but there's been some here and there. One thing I really noticed in Book of the Damned is Sam is losing faith in Dean being able to control the Mark--I noticed it earlier, but it was kinda driven home to me last week with all the subterfuge a la Sam--which is what happened with Dean in S5. After Sam and Dean got back together in S5, Dean was on the team free will wagon and believed they could hold out and both say no. But as the season progressed and there was one loss after another, Sam being tugged back to the blood drinking and much of Lucifer's "prophecy" coming true, Dean started to lose hope in Sam's ability to hold out. I'm seeing that with Sam this season, so I wonder if this will be the episode where Sam goes off the rails and gets drug back and in the end finds his faith in Dean again? So, if this is Bizarro Point of No Return, who does Sam kill?
  • Also, I'm thinking of Lucifer's prophecy of Sam giving in and saying yes in Detroit being akin to Cain's prophecy of Dean killing Crowley then Cass then Sam. Which makes me a bit more solid in thinking they won't fulfill that prophecy, but avert it as they did in S5. I said a bit, right?
Edited by DittyDotDot
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I'm just trying to imagine what crazypants!Dean would be like.  I mean we kind of got the karoake, drunk and on the verge of truly awful Dean with Demon!Dean and we got Killy McStabberson!Dean with the MoC...and Dean has always been kind of on the edge of crazy town anyway....

 

I think crazypants!Dean would be.  Maybe like leviathan!Dean or just full on power hungry wants to rule the world!Dean....and yes sign me up for that at this point.

 

I mean I said goodbye to regular!Dean when Metadouche killed him so I dunno crazytown!Dean with a side of King of Hell? Would watch.

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

Okay. So thinking about the Stein family and that they date to the 1800s, and the tattoo that Jacob Stein was like the one on the box in Young Frankenstein and how that big guy was virtually unkillable. I think they are the Frankenstein family.

 

Then I thought about  Misha saying in an interview that they are going to do something truly disgusting. Then I thought about the finale being titled My Brother's Keeper.....and I am horrified at my own crack theory:

 

Dean is going to become Winchester's Monster. 

 

IMO trying to remove the Mark is going to do something horrible to Dean. He can't die without becoming a demon again. Maybe Cas tries to smite him but he doesn't have enough power was just not enough to actually kill Dean and he becomes this half alive zombie demon thing. Sam turns to the Steins(Frankensteins) because he can't live with Dean this way....so they do something to keep Dean alive until they find a way to actually remove the Mark which parallels Sam's desperation in s3 to save Dean. And he has to keep Dean under lock and key because Sam will be Winchester's Monster's keeper. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

ETA: OR another alternate crack theory

 

Given the pictures of Misha's face with all that blood that IMO looked not random and the picture Jensen tweeted of the blood on his shirt.....That maybe Cas succeeds in saving Dean but it depletes of his grace totally and he becomes human and dies. Dean becomes desperate to save Cas becomes Winchester's Monster and the "brother" that  Dean is keeping....

 

OR:

 

In Sam attempts to save Dean, Rowena does something horrible to Sam and Dean is once more so desperate to save Sam that he turns to the Steins and Sam becomes Winchester's Monster...

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I may have been thinking of this all wrong.  What if the Mark and Blade aren't horcruxes?

 

What if they're hallows?

 

Potter-philes, feel free to skip this bit; a quick lesson for those unacquainted with Potter lore.  The Deathly Hallows were three objects, created by Death, that gave the possessors incredible powers.  The first Hallow was the Elder Wand, also known as the Unbeatable Wand.  Whoever possessed the wand was, essentially, unbeatable in a duel.  Unless, of course, you boasted about having it and someone killed you in your sleep in order to take possession.  

 

The second Hallow was the Resurrection Stone.  However, when the Stone was used, those brought back from the dead were mere specters of who they once were.  They weren't truly alive again.  They were souls driven mad by the veil between the living and the dead.

 

The third Hallow was the Cloak of Invisibility.  It rendered the user completely invisible, not simply camouflaged to mimic the area around it.  The original owner was wise enough to use the cloak until such time that he removed it and greeted Death as old friends.

 

The Mark and the Blade sound like two of the Hallows.  Where might Dean find the Cloak of Invisibility -- or the SPN version of it -- so that he can meet Death as an equal?

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

So, if this is Bizarro Point of No Return, who does Sam kill?

 I think if Sam got to kill someone important and/or recurring in the story arc, I might fall out of my chair. I don't think that has happened that I recall since the end of season 5 - and even then Sam didn't really kill Lucifer, so technically it hasn't happened since season 4 with Allastair... and he may have been the only one (which when you think about it is kind of odd.)

 

Your scenarios are interesting, catrox, but I have a feeling the writers are not going to put this on Dean - i.e. that Dean really was/is controlling the mark of Cain just fine, and it will be Sam's lack of faith that will instead doom him. The writing on the wall seems to be setting this up as some parallel to season 5 (a bizarro version as DittyDotDot described), but I'm thinking that instead of like when Dean got his faith back, it's going to be too late for Sam to get his faith back and his lack of faith will cause something awful to happen and/or it will somehow be his fault Dean goes "bad." This will make me angry, because it won't seem fair that Dean is allowed to lose faith and be brought back, but Sam loses faith and all goes to crap, but I have a feeling that's the way it will go, and that Sam will be the scapegoat. It won't matter that Dean recklessly chose to get the mark of Cain, because everything would've been fine if Sam hadn't screwed up. (Kind of like the apocalypse - it wouldn't have mattered that Dean made a reckless deal that accidentally started everything in motion, because nothing bad would have happened to anyone else if Sam hadn't been stupid and trusted Ruby - I see this current scenario potentially going the same way here.)

 

I hope I'm wrong, and I'll be happy with almost anything that isn't "Sam does something really stupid and 1) causes the apocalypse... again 2) causes Dean and/or Cas to suffer and/or die horribly or 3) makes Dean have to make some sort of sacrifice to save Sam's loser ass... again." I'm getting tired of the show giving lip service to Sam being supposedly smart and then having him do entirely stupid things in direct contrast to that. If you say it, but then show something completely different, the "say" part doesn't count at all in my opinion, so just stop saying it. Just like they keep having Sam talk about how trust is important and then in complete contrast to that (and Sam's progress in season 7,) have him lying all over the place. Please pick something and stay with it. I'm tired of stupid Sam and hypocrite Sam where the "words" are saying one thing and the narrative is showing me something else. I'm reminded of the "Great and Powerful Oz" - where they want us to just look at the words and forget about what's behind the curtain, yet they make what's behind the curtain so obvious and in my face that I can't help but see it. It's so frustrating to me.

 

I'm beginning to think that Garth's description of Sam in "Sharp Teeth" is how the current writers really see Sam and that that is all I'm going to get for the foreseeable future. I've been afraid to look at the most recent sneak peeks up there, because I'm worried they are only going to support my fears here.

 

I was looking forward to these last few episodes when there was the hope that maybe, just maybe, this time Sam would get something right and not fail horribly... again, but now I'm more just wanting them to be over so that I can be angry and annoyed and hoping for something better next season.

 

Sorry about that venting... everyone else can get back to their happy speculation now. I'll just be pouting alone in my own little corner. ::Pouts::

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Misha kinda gave a spoiler in the vein of "everyone will breathe a collective sigh of relief and then it goes to crap" about the Finale. From that it is pretty clear that Sam will succeed in removing the cure in the end - with the use of the Book most likely - and then the biblical consequences will follow. I mean when even the evil guys who used the book for evil warn not to sue the book, you should probably not use the book. 

 

I just hope that for Dean the consequences are as such that he still has a storyline. If he goes back to cooking and cleaning in the bunker, I`d rather they kill the character off right now.  

 

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catrox14

catrox14

I'm not so sure Sam is really going to get a lot of blame here even if things do go wrong nor that he will be thought of as a stupid man because he made a desperate choice and is forgivable.  There is a large section of fandom that thinks that because Dean allowed Sam to be possessed to save his life that it was wholy unforgivable because it's viewed as a rape metaphor...which....yeah...anyway...so Dean taking on the Mark was stupid on Dean's part and he got what he deserved because of what he did to Sam. For me whatever thing Sam does that might inadvertently cause another problem still won't be viewed as harshly. I don't know if that helps but I think Sam has some leeway here. 

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

 

I just hope that for Dean the consequences are as such that he still has a storyline.

 

The consequences will no doubt take Sam on the "dark journey" the writers hinted at for him, and Dean will be in reactive mode once more.  But that's okay.  I'm grateful for the nearly two year arc he got with the Mark.  It's been a breath of fresh air, and I would never have predicted the writers would have given it this much room back when I watched "First Born"!

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Misha kinda gave a spoiler in the vein of "everyone will breathe a collective sigh of relief and then it goes to crap" about the Finale. From that it is pretty clear that Sam will succeed in removing the cure in the end - with the use of the Book most likely - and then the biblical consequences will follow. I mean when even the evil guys who used the book for evil warn not to sue the book, you should probably not use the book.

 

Well, that would fall under the "Sam causes another apocalypse and there might be consequences for Dean" type scenario. Not to mention making it akin to the Dean / Kevin thing... except worse because Dean specifically said he didn't want to become that and to not do these things to save him, and with Sam going to Rowena... yeah, it would be worse than Gadreel by a bunch.

 

I'm not so sure Sam is really going to get a lot of blame here even if things do go wrong nor that he will be thought of as a stupid man because he made a desperate choice and is forgivable.  There is a large section of fandom that thinks that because Dean allowed Sam to be possessed to save his life that it was wholy unforgivable because it's viewed as a rape metaphor...which....yeah...anyway...so Dean taking on the Mark was stupid on Dean's part and he got what he deserved because of what he did to Sam. For me whatever thing Sam does that might inadvertently cause another problem still won't be viewed as harshly. I don't know if that helps but I think Sam has some leeway here. 

 

I've not seen that section of fandom myself, though I will admit that my fandom forays are limited. Most that I have seen forgive Dean because it wasn't clear that Sam would want to die per se at the outset and because he did what he did to save Sam. I forgave Dean rather easily despite being mostly bi-bro with Sam leanings.

 

Sam here already goes into this with a ton of baggage from the Carver era, because for me, Dean at least had a good reason for letting Gadreel in. There was never any good reason for Sam not looking for Dean - and worse - abandoning Kevin to Crowley which based on history, meant likely torture and/or death. That was portrayed as fairly cowardly and selfish in the narrative, and then they threw wanting to kill Benny in on top of that. And then there was all of that baggage from "The Purge" which even with the best case scenario resolution we got this season implies that Sam said awful things to Dean to hurt him because he was angry (nice) about an issue which he did a 180 on ("I lied"), making him a hypocrite. So Sam to a large portion of fandom started out this season in a huge hole he's just now digging himself out of. I personally don't see how anything Dean has done could be worse than what's been done to Sam's character through season 8 and 9, but I appreciate the attempts to lessen the blow.

 

The consequences will no doubt take Sam on the "dark journey" the writers hinted at for him, and Dean will be in reactive mode once more.

 

I'm sure he'll save Sam again. That's what Dean does.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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