Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

I don't think I'd want that, myself. Just one more way to make Sam an uber screw-up. No thanks.

 

That doesn't mean Sam necessarily screwed up at all.  If Sam closes the gates of Hell, he saves the world. Sam might be unaware that Dean has gone into Hell to find Lucifer especially if Dean leaves because his become uncontrollable and is afraid he'll kill Sam. Or maybe Dean volunteered to go into Hell of his own accord hoping he can get out in time knowing there is a risk. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

I wouldn't mind if they cured Crowley as part of thing about closing Hell.But of course that will mean the Dean will be in Hell trying to find Lucifer to get rid of the Mark and Sam will succeed and trap Dean in Hell.

 

Okay I think I might want this...

 

LOL that was just my bitchy "this is how Dean becomes Lex Luthor" spec. Like, Sam cures Crowley and closes the gates of hell, but Dean is trapped inside...as a demon...he's now King of Hell and determined to claw his way out...SHOWDOWN in S11.

 

I don't think they'd really do that, because damn. I doubt that anybody who watches the show dislikes Dean enough to want to see that happen to him! But maybe they're just out of ideas *shrug.*

 

OK I'll be back in a bit, I'm going to go write that Joy-from-My-Name-Is-Earl-finds-a-Tulpa crack!fic. Gotta blast some Creedence Clearwater Revival and Lynard Skynard in addition to the Blue Öyster Cult. :P

Edited March 6, 2015 by rue721

[catrox14]

I ain't even gonna lie.  I would be more than happy if demon!Dean shows up and becomes the King of Hell.  I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW. I've lost it.

[SueB]

But it's been fun watching your journey catrox!

[catrox14]

It's like a trainwreck filled with psychological whiplash and emotional destruction. 

[AwesomO4000]

That doesn't mean Sam necessarily screwed up at all.  If Sam closes the gates of Hell, he saves the world. Sam might be unaware that Dean has gone into Hell to find Lucifer especially if Dean leaves because his become uncontrollable and is afraid he'll kill Sam. Or maybe Dean volunteered to go into Hell of his own accord hoping he can get out in time knowing there is a risk. 

 

Oh, I know, but it would still end up being Sam somehow causing Dean pain through "good intentions." And I'm not sure Sam could live with himself if that happened. He already felt guilty enough about Dean ending up in hell for him the first time... guilty enough that he totally fell off the band wagon. (I still think that part of the reason Sam just kept going down the wrong path in season 4 was because he learned that Dean did remember hell, saw how broken that made Dean, and was eaten up with guilt for seeing him every day like that and knowing he couldn't fix / help Dean. So he did the one thing he thought he could do: kill Lilith and if that killed him (Sam) in the process, he was okay with that.)

 

So nope, I don't want Sam to be the cause of Dean being stuck in hell yet again. Now if Crowley does it somehow... okay, especially if Sam gets to kill him for it.

[catrox14]

Oh, I know, but it would still end up being Sam somehow causing Dean pain through "good intentions." And I'm not sure Sam could live with himself if that happened. He already felt guilty enough about Dean ending up in hell for him the first time... guilty enough that he totally fell off the band wagon. (I still think that part of the reason Sam just kept going down the wrong path in season 4 was because he learned that Dean did remember hell, saw how broken that made Dean, and was eaten up with guilt for seeing him every day like that and knowing he couldn't fix / help Dean. So he did the one thing he thought he could do: kill Lilith and if that killed him (Sam) in the process, he was okay with that.)

 

So nope, I don't want Sam to be the cause of Dean being stuck in hell yet again. Now if Crowley does it somehow... okay, especially if Sam gets to kill him for it.

I think Sam is in a very different headspace now than he was in s4. I don't think he would feel as guilty because this wouldn't be his fault if it's part of a plan. Sam was apparently willing to die in s8 to save the world.

I think if it turned out that the way to remove the Mark is something worse than death or worse than Dean being a demon ...like say Dean gets rid of the Mark and it affects all of humanity in some random way, Sam would be okay with Dean being in Hell.

I think if Sam made a deal behind Dean's back that resulted in Dean going to Hell that he couldn't live with.

[rue721]

I think if it turned out that the way to remove the Mark is something worse than death or worse than Dean being a demon ...like say Dean gets rid of the Mark and it affects all of humanity in some random way, Sam would be okay with Dean being in Hell.

 

I don't think that's true right now. Wasn't that basically their argument last season, whether Sam would save Dean at all costs? Even though at first Sam was saying he wouldn't, by the end of the season, he said that had been a "lie" and he really would save Dean at all costs after all. Then he backed that up by going all "dark" over the summer hiatus/early in the season while trying to find/cure/save Dean. So I don't think that Sam would be OK with giving up on Dean under really any circumstances, at this point.

 

I can see *Dean* deciding he's going to dive into Hell for some reason (maybe for the greater good, as an alternative to the "throw Dean into the sun" idea?), and trapping himself there on purpose. Tbh, I can even see Cas pulling him into Hell (also as an alternative to the "throw Dean into the sun" idea) and both Dean and Cas getting trapped in there.

 

As for Sam's motivation, Sam might want to close the Gates of Hell to keep Dean *out* of Hell. If Hell is locked up, then nobody can get in as well as get out, I would think? That would be kind of a boon to any of the demons still on Earth. Including Dean, whether he's a demon at that exact moment or not.

 

I don't know why I've got this strong feeling that Dean is going to end up as King of Hell (which I guess would also be kind of ironic, since wasn't that the position that Yellow Eyes tapped Sam for?), but I do. Because I really don't think that Crowley is going to end the season still in that position, but Crowley and sorta/kinda Dean are the only "demon" regulars on the show.

 

Or maybe something batshit crazy will happen. Like maybe Cole will somehow get the Mark and become KoH, and *that's* how the show is going to make him a regular (I swear they're trying to add him to the cast somehow). Who even knows.

Edited March 6, 2015 by rue721

[catrox14]

Honest to gods if they give the Mark to fucking Cole,I might have to quit the show. What a total copout that would be. That's like Adam level of copout. UGH...NONO NO NONONONONONO .

which means of course that is totally what they are going to do. I kind of internet hate you right now rue

[catrox14]

Tweet from Travis Aaron Wade aka Cole....hmmm. Make of it what you will.


 

Travis Aaron Wade ‏@TravisAaronWade Mar 4

Thank You @cw_spn @jarpad @JensenAckles 4 an incredible time spent on #Supernatural An incredible journey w/ this cast & crew #ColeT #3/18

 

[SueB]

Yeah, sounds like he bites it.

[catrox14]

So Jared kind of spoiled 10.19.  He wrote a post on his FB page about his "Always Keep Fighting" campaign and he said that 10.19 deals wtih suicide...:(. as only SPN can.

 

Now I'm kind of nervous that maybe the pic Jensen tweeted that looked like Purgatory is because Dean tries to kill himself by going into Purgatory....or he succeeds and ends up in Purgatory anyway.  Suicide is pretty dark even for SPN...Although after Travis' tweet; maybe Cole could have killed himself in 10.18 because he finds out he's actually the same kind of monster as his father so Travis kills himself and Dean goes to Purgatory to try and save him.

 

But it's probably more likely about Sam because the guy in theSPN family that killed himself was Jared's double and dear friend.  Probably find out that someone Sam knew in college offs himself.

Edited March 6, 2015 by catrox14

[Goldmoon]

Because, yeah, it'll be bad enough if/when they kill off Cas but if it's done at Dean's hand? Fucking forget about it. I will honestly not recover from that.

Seconded.  I don't want them to go out in a blaze of glory either. That would ruin the episodes that came before, for me.  Either the grand finale should be just another case, and it would be nice if it was just a MOTW, and we saw the show close with Sam and Dean drive away with Cas in the back seat to go hunting, and we can imagine the end of their lives, or some big victory that means Sam and Dean can stop hunting and try to have a normal life, with Cas as a neighbor, angel or not. What do you think will happen in the very last episode?

[Wynterwolf]

"Paint it Black" - (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

ROWENA MAKES PLANS TO RECLAIM HER MAGIC - Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) investigate a string of suicides committed by people with little in common other than the identical, grisly method of death - slow, self-administered disembowlment. All of the victims were members of a Catholic church and had recently given confession, leading the brothers to suspect the priest (guest star Stephen Daniel Curtis) is somehow involved. Meanwhile, when Crowley (Mark Sheppard) captures Olivette (guest star Teryl Rothery), the leader of the Grand Coven, Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell) pleads her case to be allowed to practice magic freely again. John Showalter directed this episode written by Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming (#1016). Original airdate 3/25/2015.

 

 

Source.

 

Yikes... ew.  But it doesn't look like there's any connection specifically to the boys, just the commonality of the method of death.   But if Cole makes some sort of 'noble sacrifice', that could definitely tie into the overall theme.  But since there's a backdoor into Purgatory, maybe Dean will just decide that's where he belongs and just goes there, since it's possible if he "dies" he might just become a demon again.  

 

 

[catrox14]

Well, I'm one of those sick puppies that thinks a tragic ending is the way to go.  A bittersweet tragic ending.   IMO Dean will have to die, and Sam will have to go on living without him or they die together.  But only at the end of an SPN film.

 

11 seasons and a movie!

[Aeryn13]

 

If Sam closes the gates of Hell, he saves the world.

 

Which would mean that probably the last and final "super-important, heroic, world-saving" mission that show has by-passes Dean completely again. I hated it when they established in Season 8 it was a solo mission, with a capital S. No partners welcome. Sidekicks can apply for cooking duties.

 

If they never, ever, ever, ever, ever bring up that "closing the gates of hell" scenario again, it will be too soon for me. Also, I really don`t have an interest in Dean as King of Hell. A dark arc for a character is fine but I don`t want a "face-heel-turn" where a once heroic character just gets rewritten into a villain and that was it. Maybe on some shows, for some characters that can work but for Dean, it would make me livid. And I have no, really not an ounce of faith in these writers that they could make it without completely and permantely destroying the character.    

[Wynterwolf]

Death really isn't death on this show anymore, though, because we've seen Heaven and Hell.  So even a death that seems to stick, wouldn't necessarily be a tragedy.   Pretty much anything they do will still have a "...To Be Continued" at the end of it.  

 

And I absolutely agree, I would be very happy not to revisit the 'closing the gates' scenario again... mainly because I thought it was pretty short sighted of the boys to believe that was ever a viable solution in the first place.  You just can't mess with the ecosystem that way!  

[catrox14]

I don't think King of Hell!Dean would necessarily be a heel turn into a full on villain.   If we compare him to Crowley, KoH!Dean could be working both sides..he could be morally ambiguous just like he is now and just like Crowley is.  Crowley has worked with the boys and hasn't killed them when he could.  Or Dean could have his own agenda with Sam.  Maybe it takes both Sam closing the gates of Hell whilst curing Crowley along with Dean killing Lucifer whilst Lucifer is in Hell to save humanity

 

That's it. I have the end of the show.

 

It takes both Sam and Dean making sacrifices to save humanity.  Dean embarks on a mission with Cas to save Adam and kill Lucifer to free himself of the Mark which also reignites the Apocalypse but will save humanity. They find that Adam is really most sincerely dead. So Cas and Dean together kill Michael.  Then Dean and Cas together kill Lucifer. Both are badly wounded in the battle. Cas uses what's left of his angel juice to try and heal Dean and zap them out of Hell.  As they are just getting out of Hell, the gates close.  Sam has been successful. But it's too late to save Cas and Cas dies next to Dean....:(.  Sam finds them both but Dean is already dying...Cas' angel juice was not enough. Dean is dying but he's free of the Mark, and he won't resurrect as a demon. Sam is dying because he completed the trials. They make it back to Baby and then Death appears in front of Baby looking at both of them sitting in the front seat.

 

The final scene is from Death's perspective looking into the windshield of the Impala. We see Dean and Sam next to each other, dying with Mary and John standing behind the Impala ..waiting. Back to Dean and Sam looking at each other with wry weak smiles on their faces....and at the very same time they say

 

Sam: "Jerk"

Dean: "Bitch"

    

Fade to black, with either Kashmir or Stairway to Heaven ...playing over the credits.

 

I just made myself cry....:(.

Edited March 6, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Hmmm maybe Dean has a vampire bite him and then gets beheaded and goes to Purgatory.  No... I don't want to see that.

 

I'd be worried about Cas for the suicide, what with his fading grace, BUT I'm fairly certain Misha was busy with drone wars in his backyard this week and wasn't filming.  I am glad Jared went ahead and reached out regarding the suicide plot and the tie to his T-shirt.  I think these guys see a lot of people at conventions who sharing their personal story of depression.  Plus, again, it hits close to home with him.  He's so jazzed about the outreach the #SPNFamily has done with his T-shirt campaign too.  

 

From my favorite spoiler gatherer http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/104847883843/season-10-spoiler-sheet:

 

The title is a reference to “The Sorrows of Young Werther” a novel by Goethe that inspired the Werther effect - where people copied the suicide of the protagonist. Given that Ruth is is the episode, we may see some sort of “project” where witches or demons are trying to promote suicide?

 

So, I'm hoping they deal with this well.  I'm not 100% that the title has been confirmed to this Goethe novel, OTOH, since Jared's said it deals with suicide, that seems more likely now.  

 

I'm fine with an "Angel"-like ending ("let's get to work.) In this case it'd be,  "We've Got Work To Do", trunk slam, smash credits. 

[trxr4kids]

I think Death would show up in the backseat with something greasy and Dean would be all, not in my car dude.

[catrox14]

The difference for me is that with the Angel ending w

e saw them going into battle facing literal dragons, and every manner of beast in that alley.  And we saw team members die before that final battle

. To me it was never ambiguous.  They were all going to die. It was grim and horrible and awesome. IMO Slamming the trunk is the signal that they are going on to fight another day not that it's over.  But I'm weird and I don't need a totally happy ending. I want them to have a heroic ending.

Edited March 6, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Having read the comics, which I consider canon as Joss Whedon praised the story and folded it into his own canon comics line, I loved the Angel ending. 

 

I think Death would show up in the backseat with something greasy and Dean would be all, not in my car dude.

IF they die, Death has to be there. 

[catrox14]

Heh, I'm just the opposite about the comics.  Angel ended with the show for me.  They are all dead dead really most sincerely dead for me.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

I don't think King of Hell!Dean would necessarily be a heel turn into a full on villain.   If we compare him to Crowley, KoH!Dean could be working both sides..he could be morally ambiguous just like he is now and just like Crowley is.  Crowley has worked with the boys and hasn't killed them when he could.  Or Dean could have his own agenda with Sam.  Maybe it takes both Sam closing the gates of Hell whilst curing Crowley along with Dean killing Lucifer whilst Lucifer is in Hell to save humanity

 

That's it. I have the end of the show.

 

It takes both Sam and Dean making sacrifices to save humanity.  Dean embarks on a mission with Cas to save Adam and kill Lucifer to free himself of the Mark which also reignites the Apocalypse but will save humanity. They find that Adam is really most sincerely dead. So Cas and Dean together kill Michael.  Then Dean and Cas together kill Lucifer. Both are badly wounded in the battle. Cas uses what's left of his angel juice to try and heal Dean and zap them out of Hell.  As they are just getting out of Hell, the gates close.  Sam has been successful. But it's too late to save Cas and Cas dies next to Dean....:(.  Sam finds them both but Dean is already dying...Cas' angel juice was not enough. Dean is dying but he's free of the Mark, and he won't resurrect as a demon. Sam is dying because he completed the trials. They make it back to Baby and then Death appears in front of Baby looking at both of them sitting in the front seat.

 

The final scene is from Death's perspective looking into the windshield of the Impala. We see Dean and Sam next to each other, dying with Mary and John standing behind the Impala ..waiting. Back to Dean and Sam looking at each other with wry weak smiles on their faces....and at the very same time they say

 

Sam: "Jerk"

Dean: "Bitch"

    

Fade to black, with either Kashmir or Stairway to Heaven ...playing over the credits.

 

I just made myself cry....:(.

Pass the Kleenex!

[Aeryn13]

 

If we compare him to Crowley, KoH!Dean could be working both sides..he could be morally ambiguous just like he is now and just like Crowley is.

 

Thing is, I don`t consider either one morally ambiguous. Dean isn`t halfway bad or something, I consider him firmly in good guy territory right now. He has not done anything to make me question that, hence no ambiguity. A dark arc doesn`t necessarily mean that for me.

 

On the other hand, Crowley is a bad guy. He was a total villian before and he is a total villain now. All his awakened "humanity" did was IMO make him throw himself pity parties and make him prone to the obvious manipulation by Rowena. He is a villain they work with on occassion but all his feelings are for himself. I kinda doubt he regrets even one evil act he committed on account of feeling sorry for the other person. He feels sorry for himself.  Unfortunately, he has become a whiny, pathetic villain.  

 

Cain in the last episode would fit my bill for morally ambigious. 

[catrox14]

I meant morally ambiguous in that Dean and Sam have made deals with the devil or done questionable things as a means to an end, not that I think Dean or Sam are bad people. They are both good men.

[catrox14]

TW: flashing gifs.

 

So, I saw this on Tumblr...re possible foreshadowing related to "Brother's Keeper" in the Riechenbach trailer....MEEP.  Yes it's a promo from the CW promo monkeys but it is an interesting observation by the Tumblr---er.

 

 

 

 

[x]

so they showed us this back in the reichenbach promo and the finale happens to be called brother’s keeper are they foreshadowing us

 

 

 

 

http://deanisanactualprincess.tumblr.com/post/112340311858/x-so-they-showed-us-this-back-in-the-reichenbach

Edited March 8, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Is it me or is the Nepotism Duo writing the majority of episodes these days?

 

It does look like they've been writing four per season to most of the other writer's three since Carver took over. It's weird they keep giving them so much to do and so much myth to handle considering how horribly they manage to handle it. Weird.

[catrox14]

It does look like they've been writing four per season to most of the other writer's three since Carver took over. It's weird they keep giving them so much to do and so much myth to handle considering how horribly they manage to handle it. Weird.

 

#wifeofBobSinger

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I know one of them is married to Singer, but they've been with the show since S1 and it's only recently they've taken on more. In fact, under Kripke they only wrote one episode, Route 666. I just wonder why all the sudden her being married to Singer has become a factor. Especially considering their episodes seem to be the most despised...not just here, but I've seen that all over the place.

Edited March 8, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

Sorry, just to clarify my comment.

 

Her being his wife is not why the episodes are despised. That duo has written arguably the worst episodes bar none * of the entire series.  The episodes are despised because they are terrible.

 

It's not completely out of the realm of possibility that her being his wife may influence why she is getting more episodes to write with her writing partner.

 

*Non Bloodlines category

Edited March 8, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Her being his wife is not why the episodes are despised. That duo has written arguably the worst episodes bar none * of the entire series.  The episodes are despised because they are terrible.

 

I wasn't saying that the episodes were despised because she was his wife, but that the episodes suck. What I was asking is, why is nepotism all the sudden a factor when they've been with the show for 10 years and it didn't seem to factor in before?

[catrox14]

Taking response to Writers thread

Edited March 8, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

They didn't  write any episodes between Route 666 and 'The Episode That Shall Not Be Named * ....which was during Kripke's and Gamble's tenures as showrunners.  Carver took over beginning s8. So either Carver must like the drivel they produce or maybe Singer has more influence now than he did with Kripke and Gamble. Just my speculations.

 

To TPTB thread...

Edited March 8, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

I moved my reply to the writing thread..And I'll continue it over there.

[rue721]

From the Executioner's Song thread. Discussing how Lucifer might look to Dean and/or Sam if they confront him about the Mark:

 

I don't think so because Lucifer already got into both their heads. Dean is a demon essentially because of Lucifer and Sam was in Hell for 100 years because of Lucifer.  This is Dean and Sam going after Lucifer not vice versa.  Now Lucifer might wear a different meatsuit to hide from Sam and Dean but I can't imagine him being afraid of them at all.

 

The within-story reason that I would think that Lucifer would want to look like someone who his target (Dean or Sam or Nick or whoever) trusts and loves is because he seems like he *hates* when anyone else gets more attention/love/trust than he does -- so I think he would enjoy showing someone the face of a trusted loved one and then revealing that it was *him* who was behind that face all along. Like he did with Sam, when he revealed that he'd used demons to manipulate him his whole life. I think he gets a perverse thrill out of it. But I don't really understand him, he always seems like a little boy to me. I don't really get the character.

 

Anyway, the meta reason I hope that Lucifer is going to appear as Dean (to Sam) or Sam or John (to Dean) is that there hasn't been a whisper of a rumor about Mark Pellegrino coming back, but if there's a chance that a regular (or some other guest star, like Matthew Cohen or Jeffery Dean Morgan) would be the choice to play Lucifer this time around, then there's still a chance that Lucifer *will* show up this season.

 

I really hope he does, because going to Lucifer and trying to stop the Mark of Cain's power at its source (which I would *think* would be Lucifer) is the only thing that makes sense to me in terms of what they can/should do to get rid of the Mark or at least make it easier for Dean to deal with. And also, even though the show has apparently forgotten that Sam and Lucifer have a really fucked up history and Dean wearing Lucifer's brand on his arm is *horrifying* in that context, I haven't forgotten it! Maybe they didn't watch S7, but I re-watched it like two months ago! So I also would like if they didn't just drop that story story thread. Imo odds are good that they *will* drop it, but I hope they don't.

[AwesomO4000]

The within-story reason that I would think that Lucifer would want to look like someone who his target (Dean or Sam or Nick or whoever) trusts and loves is because he seems like he *hates* when anyone else gets more attention/love/trust than he does -- so I think he would enjoy showing someone the face of a trusted loved one and then revealing that it was *him* who was behind that face all along. Like he did with Sam, when he revealed that he'd used demons to manipulate him his whole life. I think he gets a perverse thrill out of it. But I don't really understand him, he always seems like a little boy to me. I don't really get the character.

 

That sounds about right to me. I think Gabriel described Lucifer's motivation best. He was God's favorite until God created humans, and then it was like a spoiled kid when the new baby is brought home (as Gabriel described it), so Lucifer decided to smash all his toys in protest - i.e. create demon(s) from a human(s) to show God that humans weren't worthy of being the favorite. It is child-like, but I think that's somewhat of a theme with many of the angels in this verse - as when Dean calls Castiel a "child" - in that they are in some ways somewhat child-like.

 

I really hope he does, because going to Lucifer and trying to stop the Mark of Cain's power at its source (which I would *think* would be Lucifer) is the only thing that makes sense to me in terms of what they can/should do to get rid of the Mark or at least make it easier for Dean to deal with. And also, even though the show has apparently forgotten that Sam and Lucifer have a really fucked up history and Dean wearing Lucifer's brand on his arm is *horrifying* in that context, I haven't forgotten it! Maybe they didn't watch S7, but I re-watched it like two months ago! So I also would like if they didn't just drop that story story thread. Imo odds are good that they *will* drop it, but I hope they don't.

 

I agree. I also hope that if they do go with going to the source - Lucifer - the writers won't forget Sam's connection with him... and that Sam may remember where the "back door" in purgatory is or at least what it looks like.

[SueB]

 

and that Sam may remember where the "back door" in purgatory is or at least what it looks like.

It sure came across as Chekov's back door, didn't it?

[oliverwendell]

Yes, it did, but it's been so long since we've heard anything about it that I've dismissed it as a directorial slip-up.  I still pretty much think that's what it was.  But if the writers want to use that slip-up for their story, more power to them.

[Demented Daisy]

If they manage to bust Lucifer out of the cage, I'm going to be highly disappointed.  It'll completely negate everything, IMO, from S1-S4.  Everything that Azazel (and Ruby) did to get Lucifer out will be meaningless if the Winchesters can just waltz right in.

 

Harry Potter-philes, remember when Snape walked through the barrier without slowing to get into Malfoy Manor because he had the Dark Mark?  Yeah, I imagine it'll be like that.  Dean's got the Mark of Cain, so he'll have all kind of "Hell privileges".  *eye roll*

[AwesomO4000]

I wouldn't want them to bust Lucifer out, just maybe find the cage and talk to Lucifer. The hard part would be convincing him to give up the information, because what would he want for it? And would either of them be willing to pay the price. And that might be interesting if Lucifer wanted something from Sam. Sam might be willing to pay the price, but would Dean let him?

[Demented Daisy]

What else would Lucifer ask for?  I imagine Sam would have to take his place in the cage.  Which Sam would be willing to do, if it meant that Dean wouldn't spend eternity in Hell.  Meanwhile, Dean would protest vehemently, saying that he could rule Hell with the Mark, which is nothing like being cursed to spend eternity there.

 

Blah blah blah.  Either way, Sam or Dean winds up in Hell.  Which pisses me off, if I'm being totally honest.  

[rue721]

I wouldn't want them to bust Lucifer out, just maybe find the cage and talk to Lucifer. The hard part would be convincing him to give up the information, because what would he want for it? And would either of them be willing to pay the price. And that might be interesting if Lucifer wanted something from Sam. Sam might be willing to pay the price, but would Dean let him?

 

Yes, I think that they need to go to him for information. Is there any way to kill him? I don't remember how that works.

 

Thinking about it, they can't just pray to Lucifer, right? I don't really understand how prayers work, either. Can Lucifer hear them if they pray to him? Not that they would, just wondering how communication with an angel-who's-in-Hell would even go?

 

As spec, I think it's more likely that Lucifer will fuck with Dean somehow and Sam will have to "let" him. Sort of a rehash of what happened in S5, I guess, when Sam decided to be Lucifer's vessel and Dean had to accept it.

 

God forbid they bring him to earth somehow THROUGH the Mark. I don't know how that would happen and they haven't brought up anything like that on the show, I just keep thinking that if Dean gets Lucifer's power through the Mark, then what does Lucifer get *from* Dean (or Cain) through it?

 

Since it's a brand, I think of it as basically ownership, like Lucifer literally owns Dean now. Cain had said that Lucifer was trying to make Abel his pet, and I guess what happened is that in return for *not* taking Abel as his pet, Cain let Lucifer make him (Cain) his property. But I'm not sure if that's where the show is going? I mean, I think that Sam is going to have to try to buy Dean's freedom/soul somehow, but I don't know what he has to give. When he's tried to sell his own soul before, nobody was buying.

 

LOL I wonder if this will come back around to that Crossroads Demon and Lester's sold soul?

[7kstar]

I just don't know if the show will go this deep.  Since they don't seem to really think things through, I'm not sure they are thinking this way. 

 

I think they will do something stupid, hey this is a cool idea from some movie or show.  Then let the fallout happen.  It really feels like they had an idea, let's turn Dean into a Demon and then said nah -  not really what we want to happen, so we'll fix it this way.  The whole Demon Dean for a year turned out to be for naught.

 

They have wasted so many opportunities.  The only idea I've come up with that might be interesting is... Dean running off to Purgatory.  I figured he would do it, just to save everyone and if he's a monster there, well it won't matter.  There's only one person he cares about there and that's Benny.  

 

Would Lucifer even really care about Dean now that he has the mark?  I still wish Cain hadn't been killed off.

 

One loose tie that hasn't been dealt with is, Where's Mary or John and why are they missing...So they could use them because where the hell are they?  But again that means that the writers have really planned this stuff out and not just said oooh here's a cool idea.  Let's do this.  OOOPS now what do we do?

Edited March 9, 2015 by 7kstar

[catrox14]

I just don't know if the show will go this deep.  Since they don't seem to really think things through, I'm not sure they are thinking this way. 

 

I think they will do something stupid, hey this is a cool idea from some movie or show.  Then let the fallout happen.  It really feels like they had an idea, let's turn Dean into a Demon and then said nah -  not really what we want to happen, so we'll fix it this way.  The whole Demon Dean for a year turned out to be for naught.

 

They have wasted so many opportunities.  The only idea I've come up with that might be interesting is... Dean running off to Purgatory.  I figured he would do it, just to save everyone and if he's a monster there, well it won't matter.  There's only one person he cares about there and that's Benny.  

 

Would Lucifer even really care about Dean now that he has the mark?  I still wish Cain hadn't been killed off.

 

One loose tie that hasn't been dealt with is, Where's Mary or John and why are they missing...So they could use them because where the hell are they?  But again that means that the writers have really planned this stuff out and not just said oooh here's a cool idea.  Let's do this.  OOOPS now what do we do?

 

 

I wonder if Lucifer is psychically or spiritually linked to the bearers of the Mark in some way. Does he know that those are his "children" essentially? Seems like he'd be pretty damn psyched to think Dean Winchester who averted the Apocalypse with his meatsuit would now be one of his adopted "children" via the MoC.  There is so much they can do to tie it back to the averted Apocalypse. I  think I'll feel cheated if they don't go that route.

 

I agree with the idea that they would have run with demon!Dean for a longer arc if not for the stupid 200th episode needing to be happy and the boys reunited. Although I think they could have still kept demon!Dean for that anyway. 

[SueB]

I don't really expect Luci to show either.  Too many other ways of resolving the problem.  Perhaps the scene where Cas tells Sam to shoot Metatron (okay, who laughed.... I laughed) is where they extract more data out of him.  Who or what is "the source" is the BIG question.  And if Dean is off on his own, how would they tell him if they found out the answer.

[catrox14]

I don't think the source is a question though. It has to be Lucifer.  He's the one that gave it to Cain. 

[SueB]

 

I don't think the source is a question though. It has to be Lucifer.  He's the one that gave it to Cain.

True, but it can be other "versions" of source. Like Dean said -- his own inner bloodlust.  Or generic archangel power vice Luci specifically.  I do think Lucifer makes the most sense as the source but I just don't see Dean breaking him out of the cage.

 

Last person to talk to Luci in the cage was Azazel - who slaughtered a dozen nuns on Holy ground to do it.  I'm thinking Dean is not down for anything like that.

[catrox14]

I don't think Dean has to break him out of the Cage. I think he'll go into the Cage and try to kill him.

********************

 

So the s10 finale has been written per Robbie Thompson

 

Robbie Thompson        ✔ @rthompson1138
So long, #Supernatural Season 10!

Edited March 9, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

One loose tie that hasn't been dealt with is, Where's Mary or John and why are they missing...So they could use them because where the hell are they?  But again that means that the writers have really planned this stuff out and not just said oooh here's a cool idea.  Let's do this.  OOOPS now what do we do?

 

Your words to TPTB's ears, 7kstar. As soon as Dean became a demon, I've wanted John especially to see him. I feel like one cocked eyebrow from John and even demon!Dean would hop to. LOL. Well, obviously not really, but I still think that would be a really fun and interesting confrontation.

 

I wonder if Lucifer is psychically or spiritually linked to the bearers of the Mark in some way. Does he know that those are his "children" essentially? Seems like he'd be pretty damn psyched to think Dean Winchester who averted the Apocalypse with his meatsuit would now be one of his adopted "children" via the MoC.  There is so much they can do to tie it back to the averted Apocalypse. I  think I'll feel cheated if they don't go that route.

 

Lucifer must have had *some* reason for bothering to pull that ~grand manipulation~ with Abel and twist Cain into getting the Mark, and he's the one who even came up with the Mark in the first place. So I think he must be getting *something* out of branding human beings and having them wander the earth forever as sorta-demons and channeling his power through them. But I don't know what.

 

You're right, I would think that Lucifer would be very IN YO FACE, MICHAEL! about marking Michael's ~chosen vessel~ as his property. You'd think he'd *want* Dean to come down to the cage all fucked up and demonized and wearing the Mark, to flaunt him in Michael's face, just for his own shits and giggles.

 

I don't think that it's crazy that Dean could go to Hell or get to the cage, because the only reason he's not in Hell *right now* (after being stabbed by Metatron) is because he became a demon and stayed in (or got back into his body) after death that way. It was the Mark's power that healed his body, too, I guess? He's also supposed best friends with the King of Hell, and since Crowley is the one who orchestrated him getting the Mark and becoming a demon, I figure that Crowley and Dean's relationship will come into play *somehow.*