Spoilers With Speculation

[starrysuki]

But still the problem remains. The soul of anyone who dies in the future need to go somewhere. No I wouldn't like to see the gates closed. I rather like angels. They just need a firm hand.

[Wynterwolf]

I agree, I've always felt like either Heaven or Hell being closed would be more of a problem than a solution.  It might seem like a good idea on the surface, but that messing with the ecosystem like that would create far more potentially catastrophic problems than it would solve.  So in a way, I think they almost have to do it, just to see what the consequences would be.  But it would then become the problem to solve, not the solution. 

[catrox14]

It's not humans at war with the angels. The angels are at war with themselves just like the demons and humanity is caught in the crossfire. I think that is what Dean is tired of now. I don't know what the ecosystem would fail. Earth will go on, humanity will go on as it always has.

[SueB]

 

Earth will go on, humanity will go on as it always has.

Yes but in this universe there is an afterlife and it's getting crowded in the veil.  Surely more ghosts will start popping up and that's no good.  Eventually, if closing Heaven OR Hell stops souls from going there, it'll screw up the living IMO.

 

 

Super EARLY Sneak Peek for next week.  Look quick in case it's taken down!

http://www.winchesterbros.com/site/index.php/news/14/10360-supernatural-stairway-to-heaven-clip

 

The promo pictures tell us Dean goes ahead and TAKES the Blade.  Who didn't see that coming? Y/Y?  Colt in "Devil's Trap" anyone? 

 

But Sam gets credit for laying it out in black and white: the Blade's magic is going to come at a price.  I think Dean just doesn't give a shit. 

Edited May 7, 2014 by SueB

[Wynterwolf]

Oh man, there is definitely a different element to Dean.  Even EndVerse!Dean didn't make me this... uncomfortable.  Kudos to Jensen's acting. 

[NoWillToResist]

 

I've always felt like either Heaven or Hell being closed would be more of a problem than a solution.

 

I don't know why the two gates have to be either sealed shut or open both ways. Can't there be a way where souls can enter but nothing leaves?

 

I had forgotten that, allegedly, angels need permission to take a vessel, but continuity has been so jacked on this show, I wouldn't be surprised for Metatron to suddenly have the ability to bypass that rule. He can get rid of sigils, still has HIS wings and apparently flipped a switch which stopped prophets from activating. Possessing someone without consent would probably end up in his skill set if TPTB wanted him to. Hell, looking at how Gadreel was able to possess Sam, Metatron can probably just ask Cas "do you want this all resolved?" and take Cas's "yes" as consent to be possessed. *eye roll*

Edited May 7, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Wynterwolf]

Possessing someone without consent would probably end up in his skill set if TPTB wanted him to.

 

 

LOL, true... especially since Metatron fancies himself The Writer/God.  But he'd also just need a suitable "bargaining chip" to get Cas to say yes.  Dean may currently be pretty invincible, even for Metatron, but Sam wouldn't be.  So I could see Cas, especially if his angel mojo is waning, to be vulnerable to that kind of threat.  Especially if he thought his sacrifice might somehow eventually help stop Metatron. 

[SueB]

Since Metatron said he knows how the story ends, I think the switch he flipped was to BECOME THE PROPHET.  That's why another one isn't called. Metatron exists and no more prophets until he's gone.

[Wynterwolf]

Ah, essentially taking his old job back!  And with Chuck off on his walkabout, Metatron believes he should become the one to tell the story, not just record it.  Interesting! 

Edited May 7, 2014 by Wynterwolf

[catrox14]

Finally the boys have a conversation that is meaningful! Geez, more of that please and thank you. And Sam was...Sammy! Yay. 

 

I'm still fucking terrified of this end of season game.

[catrox14]

 

h man, there is definitely a different element to Dean.  Even EndVerse!Dean didn't make me this... uncomfortable.  Kudos to Jensen's acting.

 

You know what's so great about Jensen, is that I know it's still Dean. I don't know how he does that it's Dean but not...quite the Dean we've always know. Just like EndVerse!Dean.  The guy is a fucking wizard

[NoWillToResist]

Ok, so having watched the recent episode, I couldn't help but notice how very heavy-handed the 'time-travel can change things in a big and bad way' stuff was. I mean, they spent A LOT of time on that, spelling out how trying to change something can lead to massive consequences, butterfly effect blah blah.

 

So, perhaps the big cliffhanger for the season won't be about Metatron or the Blade, but some kind of timey-wimey stuff which does a big re-write in the SPN-verse. Just a total out of the blue 'oh, you thought the big themes of this season would result in the cliffhanger? Nah, we're throwing this in the mix instead.'

Edited May 8, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Phebemarie]

I'd like a timey-wimey cliffhanger if it kept Dean from being demonized.  I may be the only person not anxious for his eyes to turn black in the finale.  

 

I wonder if Richard Speight is going to show up in the finale.  It'd be interesting if the Supernatural god decided to take another meat suit.  

 

Would Dean cut off his own arm to escape the influence of the mark?  Could that be the "wow" moment talked about at the convention?  

[Wynterwolf]

I may be the only person not anxious for his eyes to turn black in the finale.

 

 

Not the only person!   I understand the threat of that needs to be there for 'drama' (and I do absolutely think it's good drama), but they've also made such a big deal about having choices, so I would feel so let down if Dean actually turned.  Of all of them, I think Dean has the most potential to be able to recognize that chasing the power is not the way to truly win in the end. 

 

And yeah, after that last ep (and especially that stuff with Gavin)  I was thinking the cliffhanger might be related to something more global rather than something specific with any of the characters.  So many possibilities!! 

[ElleryAnne]

I'd like a timey-wimey cliffhanger if it kept Dean from being demonized.  I may be the only person not anxious for his eyes to turn black in the finale.

 

 

Definitely not the only person.  I would be so disappointed if they go there.

[NoWillToResist]

 

I'd like a timey-wimey cliffhanger if it kept Dean from being demonized.  I may be the only person not anxious for his eyes to turn black in the finale. 

 

I wonder if Richard Speight is going to show up in the finale.  It'd be interesting if the Supernatural god decided to take another meat suit.

 

Well, maybe timey-wimey fiddling makes it that Gabriel never died, ergo, he comes back?

 

I can't help but think what a twist it would be if, going into their final (?) season, SPN just threw out everything that had happened and started with a brand new Sam and Dean (or kept Sam and Dean but put them in an SPN universe which is completely different).

 

And then the questions become: CAN we get back to how things were? SHOULD we? And DO WE WANT TO?

 

That would be a hell of a game-changer. And really, considering this show's inability to be consistent with its characters, plot, canon etc., it might actually help the writers. :)  A fresh start...a white blank page, unfettered by prior writing choices.

Edited May 8, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[catrox14]

I really don't want full on demon!Dean unless it's Dean doing it as a means to an end.  And I realllly don't want any reset of time that resets canon in the show.  I just can't believe they would do that to a show of this type. I'll be sorely disappointed if they do that. It's not Doctor Who and the Impala is not, in fact, a TARDIS. 

 

I want the boys to have an actual ending befitting their journeys and resetting time would just be such a disservice to the show.  Ugh. No just No.

 

Even with the inconsistency in canon about certain things there is a charm to it's own internal inconsistencies, but nothing so egregious IMO that a time reset would be appropriate.  Reinvention for the sake of reinvention is not my cuppa. 

 

That said, I wonder if Sam will be given a choice to plunk Dean out of time if he sees him going darkside and wants to save him. That would be a really interesting parallel to the Gadreel decision because Dean was adamant that you can't mess with time and Sam was adamant that Dean should have let Sam die rather then be possessed by Gadreel. I wonder if Sam is going to be faced with a similar decision regarding Dean.

Edited May 8, 2014 by catrox14

[tinyurl]

 

Would Dean cut off his own arm to escape the influence of the mark?  Could that be the "wow" moment talked about at the convention?  

They certainly haven't had that before. Very Star Wars.

[catrox14]

I don't think Dean would cut off his own arm but would Sam cut it off if Dean couldn't or wouldn't?

[NoWillToResist]

 

And I realllly don't want any reset of time that resets canon in the show.

 

I wasn't rooting for that idea either...it was just idle spec based on how hard they were thumping the 'butterfly effect' drum. I, too, don't want Dean and Sam's journeys to be wiped clean or forgotten.

 

I keep wondering if Cas gets injured and Gadreel heals him, will that make Dean and Sam less interested in revenge for Kevin's murder?

 

ETA: Found this interesting bit of speculation online.

Edited May 9, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[starrysuki]

Oh my God, that speculation would be more that interesting. I can totally see Cas doing that. I thought for awhile that they were setting Cas up as a Jesus figure. It would break my heart though. In the next episode there is a betrayer in their midst a call back to Judas. It could also apply to Gadreel especially if he ends up betraying Metatron. In fact Gadreel may have been playing a Judas all his life, with his actions in the garden and then his betrayal of the Winchesters. These next two episodes should be quite interesting.

[catrox14]

Ack. I can't fathom what that would do to Dean.  Jesus Christ  (no pun intended), I think that would just destroy Dean and he might really want to become King of Hell because he won't think deserves anything better.

 

Oh fuck you, person that speculated something that this show would probably actually do. 

 

I'll just be over here... in the corner....in the fetal position, weeping for the rest of my life.

[NoWillToResist]

Right?

 

I really don't want Cas to die and I especially don't want Dean to be the one to basically be responsible for his death, but a sick part of me is all "how tragically delicious!!!!!" I hate myself sometimes. :) 

 

We see that Dean is not able (willing?) to let go of the blade, even now that it's done its job. So, what could possibly be strong enough to make him snap out of its thrall? Killing Sam and then having Cas die to fix Dean's mistake? Yeah, I'd say that would fit the bill.

 

I also think that spec fits most of the teases and foreshadowing we've been given:

 

- Cas is a big factor in the finale

- something we've never seen before (one brother killing another)

- fulfills the Cain/Abel prophecy

- cliffhanger (is Cas really dead? Is Misha coming back? How will Sam and Dean move on from that whole event?)

- Jensen's "wow. they went there." (Dean "everything for Sam" Winchester, kills Sam)

 

The only real flaw that I can see with the theory is the notion that Cas using up his borrowed grace would kill him. Why? We already ascertained that grace is really just batteries for angel powers, not life. Cas was merely human without his grace. So, why would no grace suddenly equal death? One quick fix to the theory would be if, after he saves Sam, Cas is essentially human and Metatron or Crowley or someone/thing else kills Cas while he's vulnerable as a human. Maybe Dean snaps after that and just kills everyfuckingthing in the room (minus Sam) in a grief-fueled rage, thus ending the angel story forever (assuming the spell got reversed before shit went down).

 

Then, we'd be left wondering whether God or whatever would bring Cas back again, hence the silence re: Misha's return to S10 (suspense). TPTB could have Cas be brought back as an angel, slightly powered down angel, or human, as a reward for his service to Heaven (like in S5).  Then S10 would be Team Free Will trying to shut the door that allows demons/monsters into Earth so that the show can end with the Winchesters + Cas having made the Earth a safe place for all, free from monsters, demons and asshole angels. :)  Cas can be happy with his favourite two people on the planet, knowing that he finally fixed his mistakes and helped restore his brothers and sisters to Heaven; Dean and Sam can retire and put to rest their age-old 'to hunt or not to hunt' tension.

 

There. I've wrapped up the series nicely. So, that will be my head canon in the event of an emergency. ;)

Edited May 9, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[ElleryAnne]

A small bit of news about Castiel.  Make of it what you will.

[catrox14]

That's interesting...

 

Since Revolution was cancelled maybe just maybe SPN can get Edlund back to write some episodes? Please please please.

Edited May 9, 2014 by catrox14

[ElleryAnne]

More confirmation on Misha.  

[NoWillToResist]

Should I be embarrassed at the amount of relief I had when I saw the announcement? Wonder how much William Shatner paid them? ;)

 

Congratulations, SPN. You've kept my eyeballs for another season...

 

Also, Exhibit A for "Why I'm Glad To Be Canadian". We ask the hard-hitting, important questions. Hee!

Edited May 9, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[starrysuki]

Yeah, it is good to be Canadian. So glad Misha will be back for Season 10. Lets prays that they utilize him well or at least better than they have in these last three seasons.

[catrox14]

RE: The Sneak peek of "Stairway to Heaven"

 

Okay, so I am by no means a Destiel shipper, but you can't tell me that Dean's "He's a weird ...guy.  A weird, dorky...little guy" line didn't have some kind of loving, wistful look on Jensen's face when he was thinking about Cas. Does anyone else see that? Almost a longing? There was something there.....

Edited May 10, 2014 by catrox14

[NoWillToResist]

I am not at all objective enough to answer that question.  :)

 

Frankly, I'm just glad to have Cas referenced by the boys when he's not onscreen. Too often I've found that Cas doesn't exist in the SPN universe unless he's in the episode. I get that Misha won't be in all eps, but I find it odd that Dean and Sam don't mention him more since he's supposed to be family.

 

Now that Misha is renewed I am very curious to discover how many eps he'll be contracted for. Wonder if he'll get to direct again?

[catrox14]

LOL, NoWilltoResist.  Please I would love to hear your non-objective opinion. 

 

Am I reading into that?  I mean I have seen the more overt things like Dean's remarks about "The last time someone looked at me that way, I got laid" or the "I need you" in s8 when Cas is beating the shit out of Dean, but one was played as a joke and the other during a time of crisis.  But this was a kind of random thing...sort of like the phone call a few episodes back with Cas when Dean has a sweet smile listening to Cas talk about honor bars and then Cas asking "How are you, Dean" which IMO was just loaded with ....stuff.  

[starrysuki]

No I don't think you're reading anything into it at all. A lot of people have noticed. There have been lots of instants especially last season when I thought they might be going there. This year not so much because Dean & Cas have been separated for most of the season. Even casual fans were noticing things between them. I wonder if something will happen in the finale. I do hope they go there because it would be good for the both of them.

[kimrey]

...and I just don't see it.  I see them as having a very close bond, but nothing romantic and honestly, I don't think the show would ever go there.  I don't think Jensen would let it go there from stuff he has said in the past.

 

Maybe you guys should make a Cas and Dean thread?  

[Julia]

I think an attraction between the two characters is enough of an issue that the show plays with the idea being out there (not just "Cas, not for nothing, but the last time someone looked at me like that...I got laid" but "Sorry, you have me confused with the other angel. You know, the one in the dirty trench coat who's in love with you"). I don't think they're going to ship them, but they do seem to be putting a fair amount of fanservice in there for people who do.

[catrox14]

...and I just don't see it.  I see them as having a very close bond, but nothing romantic and honestly, I don't think the show would ever go there.  I don't think Jensen would let it go there from stuff he has said in the past.

 

Maybe you guys should make a Cas and Dean thread?

It was more about something that I noticed in that clip. It stood out to me because I can't really remember occasions where Dean even comments on Cas' personality to another person especially to Sam since they all know each other pretty well. I figured it was okay to ask about it since it is in a clip and this is the speculation with spoilers thread, which I figured included speculation about the characters too.

Can you elaborate on the comment about Jensen? I know he's played a bisexual character before. Short of quitting the show, I can't imagine that Jensen would be able to squelch an entire storyline between two characters. I know he's rewritten some lines before but that's not the same is putting the kabosh on complete character arcs.

ETA: Because quoting went haywire.

Edited May 11, 2014 by catrox14

[kimrey]

No, I understand it came from the clip!  I just notice a lot of Cas/Dean talk in this thread and I realize it stems from some spoilers that have come out, but I just thought I'd throw the idea of a thread for it out there since it seems like a lot of people like to talk about it.

[NoWillToResist]

 

I can't really remember occasions where Dean even comments on Cas' personality to another person especially to Sam

 

Word to the wise: Don't piss off the nerd angels. (ep where Cas beats Dean in the alley for wanting to say 'yes' to Michael)

 

He's tough for a little nerdy dude with wings. (when Cas time-traveled them to the past, exhausting Cas and they put him up in the honeymoon suite. Heh.)

 

When there was no one else, and I mean no one, he broke ranks. He has gone to the mat, cut and bleeding for us so many times...this is CAS! (defending Cas against Bobby and Sam's suspicions in S6. *sniff!*)

 

So, this isn't the first time Dean has used those terms to describe Cas, but I still totally get an affectionate vibe from him when he says it.

 

 

LOL, NoWilltoResist.  Please I would love to hear your non-objective opinion.

 

So not the right thread for me to go off on that tangent. :) Suffice to say: I was objective/neutral until late S7 and S8 came along and made me actually ask "wait...is the show actually going to go 'there'?"

 

I know there's a lot of spec out there that "Destiel" will happen in some way, shape or form, either in this finale or the series finale (buoyed by the news that Misha will return) but I honestly doubt it. Unless there's a big change in the writers' room, I don't think there will be a consensus. I think the best fans of the duo can hope for is a continuation of their close bond/friendship/whatever. Some writers write them very well. Others...not so much. Of course this requires the show to actually put Dean and Cas in a few more scenes together. Seriously, have they had more than 15 total minutes on-screen together this season?

[catrox14]

NoWilltoResist

I know those things are what Dean said to defend Cas or to explain Cas' position to others or just to explain Cas to others or were not trusting Cas. Those never struck stood out to me as unusual because they were in each other's orbit more or less regularly as either allies or at odds.

Dean has been very distant from Cas in just about every way this season. They haven't been in each other's orbit.

That's why Dean's musing stood out to me, especially since he was saying it to Sam who absolutely knows that Cas is a weird dude. But I guess mostly it was really more in the way Jensen said the line. I realize this is all subjective interpretation.

[NoWillToResist]

 

Maybe you guys should make a Cas and Dean thread?

 

I checked th FAQ stuff and it does appear that we're okay to start character threads, so...I made one. God help me. :)

 

 

Dean has been very distant from Cas in just about every way this season.

 

And since we seem to be heading into Dark!Dean territory, I can't help but think that's intentional...

[catrox14]

From the episode thread from SueB

 

. 

Dean carries alot of pain.  He could spend years releasing it in violent outburst.

 

 

He did spend 10 years in Hell releasing a lot of that pain too. But probably not all of it. I'm kind of hoping that something about Dean's time in Hell ties in with the MoC. I'm not sure Dean has ever really forgiven himself for all the torturing and breaking the first seal. And I'm pretty sure he's never really believed he is a Righteous Man. If he allows himself to become King of Hell maybe he can slay all the demons in Hell and closes off Hell, which I hope allows him to forgive himself for what he believes he's done wrong. I could honestly live with the end of the series being Dean dying to close Hell.

Edited May 12, 2014 by catrox14

[SueB]

I may be the only person not anxious for his eyes to turn black in the finale.

I don't want him to go demon, it just seems like the logical outcome. My spec: He accidentally skewers Sammy while in a blood-frenzy and he turns. Now Black eyes seems the obvious choice but Cain never showed black eyes and he doesn't smoke out, he's in his original body it seems. So if Dean turns demon I'm not sure blak eyes make sense. But if he can smite like Cain (which he can't yet), then I think he's a demon.

Re: Dean's description of Cas. I think Dean may be hiding something. Like maybe it's another torture gig and he doesn't want Sam to know. Dean has talked about Cas being incomprehensible in the past as a deflection attempt.

[NoWillToResist]

 

Re: Dean's description of Cas. I think Dean may be hiding something. Like maybe it's another torture gig and he doesn't want Sam to know. Dean has talked about Cas being incomprehensible in the past as a deflection attempt.

 

Many have taken note of how...jaunty...Dean was that morning. Even though he isn't a morning person, hasn't been sleeping and has been weighed down lately, he's sprightly and full of energy in that sneak peek. Some are linking it to the prospect of seeing Cas again (heh) but perhaps it's the prospect of more violence coming up?

 

I had forgotten that the MoC can be transferred. Kind of makes me wonder what would happen if Cas took that burden off Dean. An angel with the demonic power of Cain? How would that combo work?

Edited May 12, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[SueB]

 

he's sprightly and full of energy in that sneak peek

I'm going with MoC steroid effect is really amp'd and he's anticipating violence.  Wish it were seeing Cas but ... I'm thinking violence.

 

Timey-whimey stuff:

Posted a long statement at TWOP: short short -- I think we had a MINOR temporal change that won't hit til S10.  But we did have a universe altering moment because Dean forgot Crowley had a son. 

[catrox14]

Dammit, Sue!

 

I'm really hoping that Dean's comment about Crowley having a son was Dean saying that he was surprised that Crowley had a living son not that he had a son at all.  I did speculate a while back that Crowley's son would be the bargaining chip but was talked out of it because he was already dead.  But shit after reading your post at TWoP, I'm kind of freaking out and not in a good way.

 

Respectfully, I'm hoping you are as wrong as you could be. LOL. I will not be the least bit happy with any kind of time reset....grrrr.  I can handle it in something like Doctor Who because we expect it because he's a freaking time traveler. But even in Doctor Who, he says he can't change past events(which they have fudged and it had consequences though. 

 

I don't understand the point of it really at this point unless the time reset is a choice Sam or Dean or Cas are given to keep one of them alive or to keep Dean from going full darkside demon!Dean, King of Hell. Maybe Dean would end up being the most powerful creature in Hell and on Earth if they don't reset time to stop him. ACK! /chews fingernails.

 

I'm really worried that whatever they do is going to erase a lot of Dean's history and that would really upset me. I don't want those things  to be changed. I love this stupid show's history warts and all, even the stupid ending to Swan Song.  If they time reset to resurrect a character like Bobby I will throw things at my TV.  I soured on Bobby when he decided that family wasn't supposed to be nice to you. Fuck you Bobby for saying that.

 

But what you say, SueB, say does mesh with a tweet that Guy Bee sent about 9.22 having a lot of nods to Classic: Supernatural.  I will also be very unhappy if they resurrect John Winchester beyond a possible flashback or a Dean losing his mind and hallucinating seeing John. I know Jensen has made comments about how he thinks Dean could really use his Dad right now because he's so lost.  Was that a hint or just Jensen muttering about Dean's state of mind?   Maybe that is what Jensen was talking about with the "Wow. Oh Wow. They went there" thing is about time reset?

 

This is making me real skittish :(

[SueB]

Sorry? 

 

I think this won't be addressed in S9.  I think the rest of S9 is going to be about resolving the Heaven story.  So S10 will pick up MoC.  And I think this is one of those things that they drag out in S10 like; AHA! Gotcha. 

 

I'd be surprised if they whitewash everything away.  That's just not fun. it's not dramatic enough.  The only way I see it happening is if Sam and Dean actually remember, with Dean at a minimum (because he's still the POV character).  Just like they remember the whole Titanic not-sinking option. Options that WOULD be drammatic:

- Crowley's FEELINGS (everytime I capitalize it, this is me saying in my head like Mark Shepard did on that last wonderful line read), force him to give up his son because the little twit is causing trouble and it's starting to unravel shit.  That would be nice and dramatic.

- Sam and or Dean have to take some sacrificial act to fix things because the timeline is getting screwed

 

Whatever it is, I expecct MORE pain for Dean, not less pain.  I do think it's a super-slim chance Cas (or Sam) does some self-sacrificing deal to protect Dean but I think both know unringing the MoC bell is too big of a deal.  And since that all happened BEFORE Gavin was saved, I'm not sure how Gavin has any influence on that story (because as I said - Kevin still died, Sam still did the trials, Dean still tricked him into being possessed by Gadreel, Purgatory happened, etc....). 

 

So I think a reset button around Crowley/Gavin in S10 makes more sense than wiping out the MoC story. 

[catrox14]

I have a question.  How exactly was the MoC passed to Dean? Was it a conscious thing Cain did to pass it on? Or was it merely the handshake that passed it on?  I don't think Cain lost his MoC or any of his powers because he killed the demons with no FB and seeming to have all his abilities to kill anything. 

 

The reason I ask is that the show has had a bad habit of switching one of the brothers "quest" to the other brother at the last minute (see Swan Song and Adam/Michael; the trials in s8).  My worry is that Sam will somehow grab onto Dean's arm where the MoC is and the powers get transferred to Sam and he ends up as King of Hell with the FB.  Yes, color me cynical about Dean's arcs going kablooey at the last minute.  And honestly, Sam's attitude towards Dean this season has me thinking that Sam is more afraid OF Dean than FOR Dean.  I still haven't forgotten Sam reading about Cain and Abel when this all went down way back earlier this year. 

 

Needless to say, I don't trust the writers to not screw the landing here.

[Wynterwolf]

I freely admit I'm a bit of a sap when it comes to Dean, I'd love for him to prove (mostly to himself) that he's strong enough not to give into the power lust and lose himself to the Blade the way Cain did (and the way Sam did to the demon blood, and the way Cas did to the Purgatory souls).  He's already kind of been there/done that with the souls in Hell, so I really hope we aren't going to repeat that.  This time around, I feel like the MoC is kind of like the cave on Dagobah was for Luke... so I'd love for the effects of the MoC storyline to carry into S10 in how it affects Dean’s view of himself (and to have that be just positive enough to break his cycle of self-loathing)… letting him finally at least entertain the idea that he might have the ability to be a good leader, if he can learn to trust himself, and to trust other people (while still maintaining a healthy skepticism).   Then we could watch him struggling with that idea, which I think would be a pretty tough struggle for him.  

[catrox14]

IIRC, Cain took on the Mark as part of the deal to send Abel to Heaven instead of being Lucifer's pet. I keep thinking there must be something still brewing with Sam that we don't know about.  I have a hard time believing the writers are just going to let Sam be on the sidelines solely to serve as Dean's voice of reason.  I think there is more to Cas asking Sam about how it was being possessed by Gadreel.  I don't understand why Sam is not pushing Dean to kill Crowley now that they have the Blade because he was pretty adamant about taking out Crowley after Abaddon. 

[NoWillToResist]

 

I think there is more to Cas asking Sam about how it was being possessed by Gadreel.

 

Well, it's possible that it was solely so that Cas could get a bit of intel on how best to approach Gadreel to become a double agent.

 

Either that, or TPTB are foreshadowing Cas and Sam teaming up to try and save Dean. Gadreel's "I've seen you through Sam Winchester's eyes and he trusts you" COULD perhaps signify that Sam will consent to Cas possessing him so that, together (Sam's brotherly bond + Cas' angelic strength), they can help Dean, and then Cas willingly leaves Sam's body to return to his regular vessel.

 

Cas jumping into Sam will be a call-back to: Dean instructing Cas to possess Sam, Cas confirming that he needs Sam's consent, Cas' "nothing is worth losing you" to Sam, Sam and Cas bonding time, and all the Cas/Sam/Gadreel stuff in the last ep.

 

I hope they don't go there though, because I don't want Cas in Sam. Ahem. Heh. No double entendre/pun intended.(Well, not much, anyway) ;)

 

 

I don't understand why Sam is not pushing Dean to kill Crowley

 

Did I miss an episode where Dean and Crowley made some kind of deal? I seem to recall Dean saying that once Abaddon was gone, Crowley was next, but the dude was just sitting there, utterly at their mercy, and they did nothing. Hell, Sam could have just killed Crowley with an angel blade or Ruby's knife. Crowley was powered down and defenseless. Instead, they chatted while he dug out the bullet which immobilized him and then let him wander off with his son. WTF? It makes no sense.

 

 

IIRC, Cain took on the Mark as part of the deal to send Abel to Heaven instead of being Lucifer's pet. I keep thinking there must be something still brewing with Sam that we don't know about.

 

Yeah, I've been wondering if Sam will come into play re: the MoC beyond potentially being a target. I can't even imagine the fan reaction if Sam somehow gets the MoC from Dean.

 

 

I'd love for the effects of the MoC storyline to carry into S10 in how it affects Dean’s view of himself (and to have that be just positive enough to break his cycle of self-loathing)

 

What show are you watching? ;)  Seriously though, it would be kind of cool if we've been crapping ourselves in fear of how this may turn Dean dark and it ends up being something that kind of saves him and gives him peace and self-acceptance. :D

Edited May 12, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Wynterwolf]

peace and self-acceptance.

 

 

LOL! I'm not even sure that will happen when the series is done, despite what the song says.

 

I'd actually love it if he kept the mark into S10, because he kinda sorta was able to control himself under it, but then the question of if he could continue to control it would always be a valid question, and would keep him from just being able to use it whenever he wanted.  

Edited May 12, 2014 by Wynterwolf