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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not saying that Dean will be prominent in the episode. I think it will likely be more balanced than Sam centric or Dean centric. If Dean seems prominent it will be because of Jensen, and what ever emotional heavy lifting he'll be doing WRT to Cas and Mary, but I think Sam will be the action person with Spawn even though Dean wants to kill Spawn and might shoot at him, that's probably the extent of it for Dean. He'll want to do do him harm but will be talked down by Sam after initially trying to shoot him which won't work as shown in the promo. That said, I won't be surprised if it did turn out to be Sam centric, given 13.3 with Jody and Missouri seems to be Dean heavy if a Jody centric episode. so they might feature more Sam in the premiere and 13.2 and more Dean in 13.3. 

No I was saying it--in the sense The J's will both prominent in the episode.  Will one be a little more used?  Maybe.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

7 minutes ago, Jakes said:

No I was saying it--in the sense The J's will both prominent in the episode.  Will one be a little more used?  Maybe.

Ah, Okay. Sorry, it was your "Yep" that made me think you thought I was saying something I wasn't intending to say. I just wanted to clarify my opinion. :)

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I fully expect Dean to be action hero and Sam to be less so at the start of the season. That's usually how the show rolls when they lose people; Dean puts up walls and focuses on the job while Sam focuses on bringing some sort of meaning to the loss. Not to mention the fact that Jensen was clearly working more than Jared at the start of the season. Which indicates to me Jensen is doing more stunt work--which is time consuming compared to the sit-n-chats I image Jared is doing with the Spawn. 

So, I'd guess the episode will be balanced between Sam and Dean, but Sam will probably be babysitting the Spawn while Dean will be actually doing stuff. 

Anyway, @SueB, I agree the bangs do not do the Spawn--or, I should say the actor--any favors. However, considering Jared's hair looks pretty bad most of the time, I'm thinking it's not so much the hair people don't like the actor as much as I probably have a different definition of what good hair looks like. But, YAY, someone to give Sam's hair a run for it's money--and maybe there will be scruffy beards to discuss too?! ;)

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not saying that Dean will be prominent in the episode. I think it will likely be more balanced than Sam centric or Dean centric. If Dean seems prominent it will be because of Jensen, and what ever emotional heavy lifting he'll be doing WRT to Cas and Mary, but I think Sam will be the action person with Spawn even though Dean wants to kill Spawn and might shoot at him, that's probably the extent of it for Dean. He'll want to do do him harm but will be talked down by Sam after initially trying to shoot him which won't work as shown in the promo. That said, I won't be surprised if it did turn out to be Sam centric, given 13.3 with Jody and Missouri seems to be Dean heavy if a Jody centric episode. so they might feature more Sam in the premiere and 13.2 and more Dean in 13.3. 

 

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not saying that Dean will be prominent in the episode. I think it will likely be more balanced than Sam centric or Dean centric. If Dean seems prominent it will be because of Jensen, and what ever emotional heavy lifting he'll be doing WRT to Cas and Mary, but I think Sam will be the action person with Spawn even though Dean wants to kill Spawn and might shoot at him, that's probably the extent of it for Dean. He'll want to do do him harm but will be talked down by Sam after initially trying to shoot him which won't work as shown in the promo. That said, I won't be surprised if it did turn out to be Sam centric, given 13.3 with Jody and Missouri seems to be Dean heavy if a Jody centric episode. so they might feature more Sam in the premiere and 13.2 and more Dean in 13.3. 

Do you know if Missouri is being played by the same actress? I loved her!

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Jonesy

Jonesy

At the NJ Con--Misha joked that he did NOT post a picture of himself in an expensive suit because he was not suppose to.  Implying in his joking way that the $3,000 D+G suit was definitely was something Cas was wearing on the show and not something Misha threw on for some reason.  So interesting Cas tidbit for episode 6.

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catrox14

catrox14

22 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I think it might be Jensen goofing around on set. It looks more liks a jokey exaggerated expression than a legit angry one to me. 

 

Of course the episode itself could prove me wrong haha

Oh I'm sure that's the case. But I still hope it's Dean giving Missouri the stinkeye

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auntvi

auntvi

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:
37 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 

Oh I'm sure that's the case. But I still hope it's Dean giving Missouri the stinkeye

I'm pretty sure one of the other photos is Dean hugging Missouri. ;)

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catrox14

catrox14

6 minutes ago, auntvi said:

I'm pretty sure one of the other photos is Dean hugging Missouri. ;)

I know, since I'm the one who posted the photos and looked at each and every one of them before posting them. I literally had to copy and paste each link separately. It was pretty time consuming!

I can still hope for Dean to give her the stinkeye from a far at first,  because by the end of the episode I'm sure it will be hugs because Missouri will have imparted some more of her brand of wisdom on Dean.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

So, who's arm  and hand is this?? And who is walking by the table??

Just FYI,you have to click on the post as it's a video. You can see a tattooed arm and hand holding a cue stick and shooting the cue ball at SPNtapeball. I keep looking at the tattoo to discern if it's meaningful.

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

4 hours ago, Jakes said:

So someone was joking with Misha at the Con and said so with the period that Cas is dead has he been chilling with Gabriel all this time--Misha says in a weird way you are right.  Hmmm.

Well, if Cass went were angels go when they die... but, GABRIEL IS NOT DEAD!! In my head, I believe Gabriel is still in witness protection somewhere. ;)

I'm guessing we're going to see a "This is Your Life" episode for Cass. I'm thinking we'll see many different versions of Cass and other characters played by Misha. It could be a twist on how Heaven is reliving one's memories for humans, but each soul is isolated and alone in their own private heaven. Maybe wherever angels go when they die is even more lonely?

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Pondlass1

Pondlass1

Why can't Dean Winchester just wear a black t-shirt sometimes? The Salvatore brothers lived in black t-shirts. 4 layers of plaid day in day out.  It's really not fair.  Thanks for posting photos... even when he's not filming and just standing about, Jensen seems in 'model mode' (to me, anyway). lol.

I'm not keen on seeing Missouri again, especially if they're going to write her as a nag like last time.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)
7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

http://soopke.tumblr.com/post/165725831098/castiel-sneakpeeks-supernatural-s13-sneakpeek

Anyone know where these are from?

Don't know--but nice find!  That certainly looks like from this season.  Is that Jack looking at dead Cas?  Looks more like his build and outfit than the J's.

 

PS--checked tree topper has it too...think someone there is saying it may be from just released i-tunes season 13 sneak peak.

Edited by Jakes
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catrox14

catrox14

So who's behind bars there? Dean or Sam LOL? I think it's Dean cause he was telling the cop about himself and appeared to be in handcuffs.

I'm Team Dean. It is Lucifer's fucking Spawn. He's not just some random angel spawn. He's not Cas' actual spawn. Kill the Spawn unless he can save Cas and even then maybe kill him.

 Sam about Crowley in 12.23.  "Don't kill him. He might be able to help us".  "And if he doesn't" "Then kill him".  And that was when they merely thought he had let Lucifer out of the Cage on purpose versus screwing up. And Crowley had proven an ally at least enough to kind of trust him.

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companionenvy

companionenvy

Just now, catrox14 said:

I'm Team Dean. It is Lucifer's fucking Spawn. He's not just some random angel spawn. He's not Cas' actual spawn. Kill the Spawn unless he can save Cas and even then maybe kill him.

That's kind of against the idea of Team Free Will though, isn't it? The only reason I can even deal with Dean thinking it (which would otherwise, by now, be OOC for him, IMO) is because of Cas's death, which he likely attributes to Jack (accurately enough, even if it wasn't intentional). 

Crowley might have been a kind-of-ally at times, but he was no innocent. Jack is. He's in the body of a twenty-something, but he's essentially a blank slate, DNA notwithstanding. 

I'm also pretty confident that Jack is going to wind up at least ambiguously good/redeemed, although I expect it won't be an easy road. 

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Jonesy

Jonesy

18 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

That's kind of against the idea of Team Free Will though, isn't it? The only reason I can even deal with Dean thinking it (which would otherwise, by now, be OOC for him, IMO) is because of Cas's death, which he likely attributes to Jack (accurately enough, even if it wasn't intentional). 

Crowley might have been a kind-of-ally at times, but he was no innocent. Jack is. He's in the body of a twenty-something, but he's essentially a blank slate, DNA notwithstanding. 

I'm also pretty confident that Jack is going to wind up at least ambiguously good/redeemed, although I expect it won't be an easy road. 

Yes--Dean is usually right about most things but Sam is right here...Jack is not necessarily going evil.  It's against the Winchester to kill before it's an obvious necessity/

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catrox14

catrox14

20 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

That's kind of against the idea of Team Free Will though, isn't it? The only reason I can even deal with Dean thinking it (which would otherwise, by now, be OOC for him, IMO) is because of Cas's death, which he likely attributes to Jack (accurately enough, even if it wasn't intentional). 

The fact that this Lucifer/Satan's spawn mitigates any TFW ideology for me.  I don't think Kelly's half human side is enough to change my opinion. I understand the theme the show is playing with here. That Sam turned out not evil, (so far anyway), so then Satan's spawn should have a chance because he's half human. IMO, it's a false equivalency for the show to make because Sam was never Satan's spawn.  I am a terrible person and I will gladly use the power that Spawn might have to save Cas and then off with Spawn's head.  

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

That's kind of against the idea of Team Free Will though, isn't it? The only reason I can even deal with Dean thinking it (which would otherwise, by now, be OOC for him, IMO) is because of Cas's death, which he likely attributes to Jack (accurately enough, even if it wasn't intentional). 

Crowley might have been a kind-of-ally at times, but he was no innocent. Jack is. He's in the body of a twenty-something, but he's essentially a blank slate, DNA notwithstanding. 

I'm also pretty confident that Jack is going to wind up at least ambiguously good/redeemed, although I expect it won't be an easy road. 

I think Jack will eventually go fix the alternate universe. But, yeah, it's not gonna be an easy road to get him there.

I agree about Crowley. The main difference there is, Crowley had already proved his "evilness" Jack hasn't done anything yet so I'd prefer they consider their options rather than just react emotionally. However, I'm not convinced Sam is saying they need to wait and see if Jack is good or bad, but he's saying what he essentially said about Crowley, which was, wait to kill him until they didn't need him anymore. I'm sure the conversation will eventually change to "Is Jack evil and/or does he deserve to be killed?" but from the promo stuff all I see is Sam saying they need him--I presume to get Mary back--not that Jack should be given a chance necessarily.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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catrox14

catrox14

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I agree about Crowley. The main difference there is, Crowley had already proved his "evilness" Jack hasn't done anything yet so I'd prefer they consider their options rather than just react emotionally.

Spawn has proven his power to control things even from the womb with some kind of cognition IMO. He powered up Cas to make sure he was born and to kill Dagon. He stopped Kelly from killing herself to be born but she still didn't survive his birth. I wonder why Spawn didn't try to resurrect his mother after she died if he could stop her from killing herself before she gave birth. That gives me pause TBH.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

6 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think Jack will eventually go fix the alternate universe. But, yeah, it's not gonna be an easy road to get him there.

I agree about Crowley. The main difference there is, Crowley had already proved his "evilness" Jack hasn't done anything yet so I'd prefer they consider their options rather than just react emotionally. However, I'm not convinced Sam is saying they need to wait and see if Jack is good or bad, but he's saying what he essentially said about Crowley, which was, wait to kill him until they didn't need him anymore. I'm the conversation will eventually change to "Is Jack evil and/or does he deserve to be killed?" but from the promo stuff all I see is Sam saying they need him--I presume to get Mary back--not that Jack should be given a chance necessarily.

Yes the fact is Jack being Lucifer's son doesn't make him automatically evil.  A spawn of an angel(even if Lucifer) and a human shouldn't be killed automatically.

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companionenvy

companionenvy

While it was a retcon, S12 canon was that the birth of a nephilim always kills the mother. So presumably, Jack can't resurrect Kelly, even if he wants to.

Sam and Dean let Jesse live, and he was the antichrist. Plus, he had already showed considerable power. Maybe Jack is the most powerful being ever, but Jesse had already accidentally killed via the mere power of suggestion, and had proven stronger than both demons and angels. I honestly can't imagine Spawn being immeasurably more powerful than that.

Also, Lucifer isn't genetically different from the other archangels, as far as we know, so his kid shouldn't be any more of a threat than a child fathered by Michael, Raphael or Gabriel. Any of the latter three procreating could have gone wrong in any number of ways, but it isn't as if the fact that this is "the Devil's child" should automatically make him a bad seed. 

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catrox14

catrox14

8 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Yes the fact is Jack being Lucifer's son doesn't make him automatically evil.  A spawn of an angel(even if Lucifer) and a human shouldn't be killed automatically.

That wasn't the case in s8 for Cas and Metatron.  I'd like to know why is Lucifer's Spawn getting better treatment in the narrative under Dabb than a standard seraphim nephalim?  I'm not eager for Sam to be totally wrong here so why not have the boys both be in for killing Spawn and then both learn the lesson if this SL is only about TFW ideology?

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catrox14

catrox14

4 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

While it was a retcon, S12 canon was that the birth of a nephilim always kills the mother. So presumably, Jack can't resurrect Kelly, even if he wants to.

That's what Dagon said. Did any other character confirm this, like Cas?  I don't remember. She could have been lying because she was planning to kill her to get her hands on Spawn. 

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)
10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That wasn't the case in s8 for Cas and Metatron.  I'd like to know why is Lucifer's Spawn getting better treatment in the narrative under Dabb than a standard seraphim nephalim?  I'm not eager for Sam to be totally wrong here so why not have the boys both be in for killing Spawn and then both learn the lesson if this SL is only about TFW ideology?

Cas was rightly hesitant back then but then the Nephalim attacked him.  But it was never said by the show all nephalim are evil--it was more an intolerance by certain angels...in this case Metatron who didn't have the best moral compass.  And we know angels in the show are wrong and biased from time to time.

Edited by Jakes
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catrox14

catrox14

3 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Cas was rightly hesitant back then but then the Nephalim attacked him.  But it was never said by the show all nephalim are evil--it was more an intolerance by certain angels...in this case Metatron who didn't have the best moral compass.  And we know angels in the show are wrong and biased from time to time.

Metatron was working a spell, so that's why he wanted her killed. But it was still said that nephelims were considered abominations by Heaven in principle, not just certain angels. Cas was reluctant to kill her because she was innocent but she attacked him and Metatron so he killed her. And Cas was prepared to kill Spawn so that Dean and Sam didn't have to do it. IMO it was only Spawn's influence on Cas that changed his mind and IMO kind of controlled Cas when he started blathering about paradise, which is literally nothing Cas has ever talked about before( which is part of my theory that AU!Cas and Cas or even Spawn controlled Cas or something happened in transit between universes, that's my story and I'm sticking to it)

The difference with Jesse is that he went off by himself in s5 so it's not really clear if Dean and Sam would have eventually killed him or not. And he was a child. Spawn is physically a young man. Not a child.  And I'm not interested in him acting like a child either. I don't think Spawn will be unwise to the world either given how he can influence things beyond the womb. 

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
25 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That wasn't the case in s8 for Cas and Metatron.  I'd like to know why is Lucifer's Spawn getting better treatment in the narrative under Dabb than a standard seraphim nephalim?  I'm not eager for Sam to be totally wrong here so why not have the boys both be in for killing Spawn and then both learn the lesson if this SL is only about TFW ideology?

Personally, I don't see the two situations any differently. I thought the narrative was pretty clear that Cass was wrong to kill that nephilim--she hadn't done anything wrong nor was it her fault who her parents were--and I don't remember the show saying a nephilim was inherently evil or bad, just that angels are generally intolerant racist assholes. ::shurgs::

I was pretty disappointed in Cass back in S8 and I'd be pretty disappointed if our heroes started killing things that weren't doing anyone any harm. I have no problem with anyone killing Jack if and/or when he does prove to be bad. But, until that point, I'd prefer they think about it first. And, quite frankly, I think Dean is reacting emotionally at first instead of thinking clearly, so I'd prefer he didn't kill anyone in that frame of mind, myself. That's only going to lead to regrets and more bullshit angst later...so no thank you!

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I just want Dean to kill him so we can get rid of the character.  Not interested in watching the Winchesters play dad. 

Well, I'm with you on the no interest in watching them play dad, but if we're just getting rid of the Spawn, I say just send it to the alternate and be done with it rather than have Sam or Dean kill him before he does something to deserve being killed for.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Jonesy

Jonesy

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Metatron was working a spell, so that's why he wanted her killed. But it was still said that nephelims were considered abominations by Heaven in principle, not just certain angels. Cas was reluctant to kill her because she was innocent but she attacked him and Metatron so he killed her. And Cas was prepared to kill Spawn so that Dean and Sam didn't have to do it. IMO it was only Spawn's influence on Cas that changed his mind and IMO kind of controlled Cas when he started blathering about paradise, which is literally nothing Cas has ever talked about before( which is part of my theory that AU!Cas and Cas or even Spawn controlled Cas or something happened in transit between universes, that's my story and I'm sticking to it)

The difference with Jesse is that he went off by himself in s5 so it's not really clear if Dean and Sam would have eventually killed him or not. And he was a child. Spawn is physically a young man. Not a child.  And I'm not interested in him acting like a child either. I don't think Spawn will be unwise to the world either given how he can influence things beyond the womb. 

 

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Metatron was working a spell, so that's why he wanted her killed. But it was still said that nephelims were considered abominations by Heaven in principle, not just certain angels. Cas was reluctant to kill her because she was innocent but she attacked him and Metatron so he killed her. And Cas was prepared to kill Spawn so that Dean and Sam didn't have to do it. IMO it was only Spawn's influence on Cas that changed his mind and IMO kind of controlled Cas when he started blathering about paradise, which is literally nothing Cas has ever talked about before( which is part of my theory that AU!Cas and Cas or even Spawn controlled Cas or something happened in transit between universes, that's my story and I'm sticking to it)

The difference with Jesse is that he went off by himself in s5 so it's not really clear if Dean and Sam would have eventually killed him or not. And he was a child. Spawn is physically a young man. Not a child.  And I'm not interested in him acting like a child either. I don't think Spawn will be unwise to the world either given how he can influence things beyond the womb. 

My point is angels don't have the best moral compass--so the show doesn't trust their word on nephilim.  So same goes for Jack.

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catrox14

catrox14

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Personally, I don't see the two situations any differently. I thought the narrative was pretty clear that Cass was wrong to kill that nephilim--she hadn't done anything wrong nor was it her fault who her parents

IMO, Lucifer is the wrong character  to examine that nature vs nurture thing. It's like it's both too big and not big enough because they aren't going to have the boys kill Spawn so why tread this ground all over again? Sam can worry about his nature in many other ways than using Spawn as his avatar. I guess to me there are no real stakes to this at all so it's just worn territory. Yawn.

In the case of Spawn how will we know if it's the influence of the Winchesters, or Kelly's gene's or Cas if he turns out good? Will they say it was the influence of humanity in general? Or just him making the choice to pick good over evil.  If he goes bad, why should any of the Winchesters be blamed for not killing him when maybe it's just because Lucifer's influence was stronger than theirs or Cas' or Kelly's? 

I'll actually be impressed if Sam turns out to just want Spawn alive to get him to open a rift again. And that he's okay with him being offed after that.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

In the case of Spawn how will we know if it's the influence of the Winchesters, or Kelly's gene's or Cas if he turns out good? Will they say it was the influence of humanity in general? Or just him making the choice to pick good over evil.  If he goes bad, why should any of the Winchesters be blamed for not killing him when maybe it's just because Lucifer's influence was stronger than theirs or Cas' or Kelly's? 

I think you're missing the point of the argument. As I said, I wouldn't blame anyone for killing the Spawn if it does turn out he can't control his Lucifer side, I only have a problem with them assuming he will be bad and therefore they should kill him before they know for sure.

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, Lucifer is the wrong character  to examine that nature vs nurture thing. It's like it's both too big and not big enough because they aren't going to have the boys kill Spawn so why tread this ground all over again? Sam can worry about his nature in many other ways than using Spawn as his avatar. I guess to me there are no real stakes to this at all so it's just worn territory. Yawn.

Don't disagree with you that it's well-traveled territory on this show, but I'm not convinced the story is going to be nature vs nurture, in the end. I think it might start out that way, but I'm thinking it's going to be more of a playing with fire (heh) sort of situation. Which also is a well-worn path on this show.

TBH, there really aren't many paths this show hasn't already traveled, IMO.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, Lucifer is the wrong character  to examine that nature vs nurture thing. It's like it's both too big and not big enough because they aren't going to have the boys kill Spawn so why tread this ground all over again? Sam can worry about his nature in many other ways than using Spawn as his avatar. I guess to me there are no real stakes to this at all so it's just worn territory. Yawn.

In the case of Spawn how will we know if it's the influence of the Winchesters, or Kelly's gene's or Cas if he turns out good? Will they say it was the influence of humanity in general? Or just him making the choice to pick good over evil.  If he goes bad, why should any of the Winchesters be blamed for not killing him when maybe it's just because Lucifer's influence was stronger than theirs or Cas' or Kelly's? 

I'll actually be impressed if Sam turns out to just want Spawn alive to get him to open a rift again. And that he's okay with him being offed after that.

Agree.  Even more worn territory is that it feels like they are regressing Sam and Dean back to their s1 personalities with Dean, its evil its must die and Sam's if you think its evil, you think I'm evil mentality. 

Dean hasn't been black and white in s2.  What more can Dean do to prove he doesn't hate Sam, think he's evil.  How does the show avoid making it look like emotional blackmail?

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catrox14

catrox14

6 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think you're missing the point of the argument. As I said, I wouldn't blame anyone for killing the Spawn if it does turn out he can't control his Lucifer side, I o

I understand the argument. It's nature vs nurture so don't kill the thing that hasn't been shown to be evil, yet.

What I'm saying, for me, it's a moo point (Thanks joey tribbiani) when you use Lucifer's spawn. There really shouldn't be something that overrides the evil of Lucifer, because it's Lucifer, the most evil to evil. And if IT IS overridden then I find that boring. I'm saying that either way the SL is boring to me because weirdly, both outcomes are expected and unwelcome. I'd rather Spawn just be evil and they try to kill him. For me that's interesting. For me the back and forth is not what I find interesting anymore.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
57 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I understand the argument. It's nature vs nurture so don't kill the thing that hasn't been shown to be evil, yet.

Nature vs. Nurture is: Are our personalities determined by our DNA (nature) or is it our environment and experiences what determines who we are (nurture). Personally, I think it's a little of both; we are both genetically predisposed towards some things, but we also can learn and change that predisposition through our experiences and environment.

So, no, the argument isn't don't kill something until it's shown to be evil, but don't judge a book by it's previous edition's cover. You might be surprised to find it's a completely different book.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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