Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, SueB said:

He can hear Dean's prayers (and Sam's).  That was evident in S6.. "I heard you but I had no news to tell you."  It's just that if Dean doesn't know where they are at, it won't help.  He could say they traveled for 6 hours.  And that provides a HUGE search radius. Heck, 2 hrs is impossible without wings.

From The Hunger Games

Quote

CASTIEL

Claire!

CLAIRE

How the hell did you find me?

CASTIEL

Angels are able to find those who pray to them.

CLAIRE

Pray? Oh believe me, I gave up praying a long time ago.

CASTIEL

Well, it doesn’t have to be a formal prayer. I could pick up on a – a longing… Perhaps you wanted to tell me something?

CLAIRE

No.

As of s10 there is no reason why Cas can't track the boys if they are not in a place warded against and the boys are asking/longing for Cas' help. its so damn inconsistent.

Now they could  play it that the boys will not pray or long for his help, so as not to draw Cas to thrm for Cas' sake.

[catrox14]

ETA: Is Deans bond with Amara still in play? Shouldnt a goddess be able to sense that Dean needs help? Didnt she say they will always help each other?

[SueB]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

From The Hunger Games

As of s10 there is no reason why Cas can't track the boys if they are not in a place warded against and the boys are asking/longing for Cas' help. its so damn inconsistent.

Now they could  play it that the boys will not pray or long for his help, so as not to draw Cas to thrm for Cas' sake.

 

The sigils on their ribs prevent locating them.  So Cas can hear them, sense a longing (told multiple times).  The perfect example is Adam.  He told Zachariah where he was in the dream.

[catrox14]

Just now, SueB said:

The sigils on their ribs prevent locating them.  So Cas can hear them, sense a longing (told multiple times).  The perfect example is Adam.  He told Zachariah where he was in the dream.

How did the angels find Dean in S9? Didn't they just show up after he prayed?

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

How did the angels find Dean in S9? Didn't they just show up after he prayed?

Dean wasn't hiding--he *wanted* them to find him.  I'm going to assume he said in his prayer where he was.

[catrox14]

Just now, ahrtee said:

Dean wasn't hiding--he *wanted* them to find him.  I'm going to assume he said in his prayer where he was.

 You're saying he specifically told the angels where he was? I really don't remember because that episode confused me to no end. LOL 

So you're saying if the boys give a clue about their whereabouts then Cas can find them?  So in this case, they can pray or send the longing vibe of where they last were and theoretically as long as they keep sending the 411 Cas should be able  to track them, no? I mean can't Cas just go bloodhound on them from the point they were arrested?

[SueB]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 You're saying he specifically told the angels where he was? I really don't remember because that episode confused me to no end. LOL 

So you're saying if the boys give a clue about their whereabouts then Cas can find them?  So in this case, they can pray or send the longing vibe of where they last were and theoretically as long as they keep sending the 411 Cas should be able  to track them, no? I mean can't Cas just go bloodhound on them from the point they were arrested?

 

"... The deal is this: Linwood Memorial Hospital, Randolph, New York. The first one who gets here gets my help in return..." - Dean Winchester, on bended knee.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

"... The deal is this: Linwood Memorial Hospital, Randolph, New York. The first one who gets here gets my help in return..." - Dean Winchester, on bended knee.

Okay, thanks for that. 

So then as to my second paragraph, the boys SHOULD have been able to lay some kind of bread crumbs for Cas to find them unless they are trying to protect him. I mean doesn't that really make sense?

[ahrtee]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So you're saying if the boys give a clue about their whereabouts then Cas can find them?  So in this case, they can pray or send the longing vibe of where they last were and theoretically as long as they keep sending the 411 Cas should be able  to track them, no? I mean can't Cas just go bloodhound on them from the point they were arrested?

After they first got the rib sigils, Dean had to tell Cas where they were (ie, in the hospital with Bobby/in the morgue with the "angel scratchings" on the heart in My Bloody Valentine.)  I don't think he had to tell him specifically where in the building he was, so maybe once Cas is in the vicinity he can sense them. But I don't think it works to track, especially if they're in a car or plane (they couldn't find Sam in the BMoL van before he got to the warded house.)

[SueB]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Okay, thanks for that. 

So then as to my second paragraph, the boys SHOULD have been able to lay some kind of bread crumbs for Cas to find them unless they are trying to protect him. I mean doesn't that really make sense?

 

I don't think prayer is like a homing signal.  That's too analog.  I think a multidimensional being of celestial intent just has specific frequencies... and knowing where they are is part of it.  Think of it as a digital message with a location tag... no tag, no location.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

I don't think prayer is like a homing signal.  That's too analog.  I think a multidimensional being of celestial intent just has specific frequencies... and knowing where they are is part of it.  Think of it as a digital message with a location tag... no tag, no location.

I'm saying that Dean should be able to say in silent prayer /desperate longing whatever "Cas,  e have been taken from the last place we were all together" . "Cas, we've been put into an armored vehicle by Agent Rick", "Cas, we think we are going X direction".  That's what I mean by leaving bread crumbs for Cas. It will be hard for him to track them but IMO that is exactly what the boys should be doing, especially Dean since he knew to give some location information to the angels. 

[ahrtee]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm saying that Dean should be able to say in silent prayer /desperate longing whatever "Cas,  e have been taken from the last place we were all together" . "Cas, we've been put into an armored vehicle by Agent Rick", "Cas, we think we are going X direction".  That's what I mean by leaving bread crumbs for Cas. It will be hard for him to track them but IMO that is exactly what the boys should be doing, especially Dean since he knew to give some location information to the angels. 

Problem is, Dean wouldn't *have* any location information to pass on once he's inside the van, so any "desperate longing" prayers wouldn't help find him.  I'm guessing Cas might be able to pick up clues through someone's eyes/feelings (so maybe he could, for example, figure out where Claire was, based on what she was seeing/saying/feeling) but that won't work in an isolated, closed, armored van--and even less if they change cars, make random turns (so they can't count time and turns like Sam did when Lenore took him), drive on highways for long stretches or get taken on a plane.  And again, when Sam was taken by Lady Whosit from the bunker, Cas and Dean had to rely on old-fashioned legwork to track it--security cameras, running license plates, traffic cams--and still hit a dead end until they found the vet.  (Maybe that's the intention--to bring Mary into the hunt using tools she knows/can figure out, instead of "Castiel-ex-machina.") But TBH, until Cas showed up at the bunker, he didn't even know Dean was still alive and hadn't been exploded, for cryin' out loud.  So I don't think he has a very strong "connection" with Dean at the moment, or Dean got out of the habit of trying to contact Cas to help.  

[catrox14]

But Dean does know they were picked up and put into the van at the motel. Dean could tell him his last best guess that they were possible heading X direction in a van that looks like XYZ. Dean and Sam will notice every little detail. That's Cas' starting point. It might be wrong but I'll be pissed if they don't even try.

Cas could try to find  Agent Rick with the Secret Service.Once they arrive at wherever they go, Dean could again try and communicate via prayer saying "We are in some place that looks like XYZ" even if all he sees is the inside of the building.

And I'm focusing on Dean here because Cas does seem to listen to/for him first. It's no slight to Sam. They just have a more profound bond, per Cas.

For Sam, I would hope he's praying like a mofo to Chuck.

ETA: I'm not saying this is magical angel transponder  but a combination of Dean giving info via prayer etc nd Cas trying to piece it together

Edited January 2, 2017 by catrox14

[Diane]

[catrox14]

I hope she has a better script than her last two but I did not particularly like Perez's American Nightmare either so...

[goldy]

Winter TV Preview: Returning Favorites - SUPERNATURAL

https://tvline.com/gallery/tv-spoilers-2017-season-premieres-photos/#!34/undefined/

Here’s a scary thought: “What happens when the Winchesters are taken off the board for [six weeks]?” executive producer Andrew Dabb asks. Both brothers being imprisoned is “going to give [the British Men of Letters] some opportunities. It allows other people to move into place,” the EP previews. “So if/when [Dean and Sam] eventually escape, they’re coming into a world that has changed pretty fundamentally.” At least one good thing comes out of their disappearance: It “really spurs [Mary] to action,” Dabb says. “To save her kids, she has to get involved in this fight, and that sets stage for more to come with that character.” Then there’s the gang’s other big problem: Lucifer’s offspring. Everyone – Dean, Sam, Cas, Mary, the Brits – will have a different opinion about what to do with the Nephilim, whose “great amount of power… can be used for good or bad,” Dabb notes.

[catrox14]

I hate the Lucifer nephilim plot with the fire of 1000 suns in every possible universe. HATE .

 

Dabb????

[Demented Daisy]

After some reflection, I don't really mind it.  At least it gives Lucifer a purpose, other than just generic evil.  

[Morrigan2575]

I think the nephilim plot has potential

[MysteryGuest]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I hate the Lucifer nephilim plot with the fire of 1000 suns in every possible universe. HATE .

I couldn't agree with this more if I tried.  But then I pretty much hate all things Lucifer nowadays.

[Demented Daisy]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if, after Lucifer becomes a father, he suddenly understands his own Father so much better?  Talk about character growth!  ;-)

[MysteryGuest]

I'm not sure how satisfying a kinder, gentler Lucifer would be.  If he's allowed the opportunity to redeem himself, then I guess Michael should be freed from the Cage, too.  And I really don't want that.  I want Lucifer stuffed back in where he belongs, end of story.  I wasn't happy when they first resurrected his storyline last season, and I'm even more disgruntled that it's continued into this season...and potentially further, if the Lucifer spawn is allowed to live.  BORING....

[catrox14]

I wouldnt be a bit surprised if the gestation period and birth of a nephelim is just about six weeks so the nephelim will be born when the boys are in prison.

Lucifer is the biggest evil to ever evil. Lucifer despises humanity. Lucifer was kind of off the hook for turning bad because it was the Darkness influence. But God is the one who putt the Mark on him in the first place tying him to the Darkness for eternity. And even that is not consistent because one minute the Darkness is why Lucifer went bad, the next no it's just the Mark bringing out what was always in Lucifer (which the implications for Dean and his time with the Mark is problematic for this viewer, but I digress). FFS show just let Lucifer be the goddamn Devil and let humanity remain his arch enemy of all time.

The only way this will be palatable to me is if Lucifer is trying to destroy humans by breeding nephilims into the population. So like maybe nephelims age exponentially and  start having sex with humans willy nilly and boom Lucifer has a nephilim army to destroy humanity. That could be interesting but for Lucifer to do this to prove to God he'll be a better father is not a story line I have any interest in whatsoever. 

If they want to visit a fucked up father/son relationship, how about looking at Dean's relationship with John. It doesnt require JDM for Dean to talk about John to anyone maybe even Mary.  Or I dunno how about Castiel and his relationship with God.  Remember when Dean and Cas bonded over their mutually craptastic fathers? WTF ever happened to getting some more revelations from both of them about John and God.  They both have a few things they probably would like to say to or about their fathers, but NOPE I'm stuck with  Lucifer and Chuck and it's not a satisfying surrogate. I want Dean and Cas themselves to voice these things.  I reject Chuck trying to manipulate Dean by saying he was confusing him with John and trying to derail Deans valid issues with John AND Chuck separately.

Edited January 5, 2017 by catrox14
tyoing with one hand sucks

[MysteryGuest]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Or I dunno how about Castiel and his relationship with God.  Remember when Dean and Cas bonded over their mutually craptastic fathers? WTF ever happened to getting some more revelations from both of them about John and God.

That's one of the main reasons I didn't like the whole Chuck is God ending.  Castiel did all sorts of damage in his pursuit to find God, and when he finally shows up and they're technically face-to-face, Cas doesn't even get one line of dialogue with him.  It was a joke!

[SueB]

I don't know if we have this write-up yet:

Quote

SUPERNATURAL 12.09 “First Blood”: After being arrested for the attempted assassination of the President of The United States, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) must find a way out of an underground, government-run, detention facility in the middle of nowhere. Determined to find her sons, Mary (guest star Samantha Smith) and Castiel (Misha Collins) seek assistance from an unlikely source. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb.

 

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2017/01/05/the-cw-spoilers-captured-on-supernatural-roulette-on-supergirl-riverdale-premieres-and-more/

[mertensia]

I know!! Mary's going to get help from The A-Team. 

[DittyDotDot]

::snort::

"In 2016, a crack supernatural hunting duo was sent to prison by the Secret Service for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the supernatural underground. Today, still wanted by the government they survive as hunters. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The Winchesters."

Edited January 6, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

Quote

Mary (guest star Samantha Smith) and Castiel (Misha Collins) seek assistance from an unlikely source.

Gee, I wonder who their "unlikely source" is.  Nope, never done that before.

ETA  Promo photos from First Blood 

Edited January 6, 2017 by Demented Daisy

[AwesomO4000]

8 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Gee, I wonder who their "unlikely source" is.

Never gonna happen, and I'm likely crazy for even mentioning it, but I would so love it if it was Ghost Frank and his magical hacking ability. But Castiel wouldn't know about Frank, I don't think. And of course Mary wouldn't. But I guess Ghost Charlie could also be cool and unexpected.

[Demented Daisy]

5 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Never gonna happen, and I'm likely crazy for even mentioning it, but I would so love it if it was Ghost Frank and his magical hacking ability. But Castiel wouldn't know about Frank, I don't think. And of course Mary wouldn't. But I guess Ghost Charlie could also be cool and unexpected.

Sadly, they said "unlikely" instead of unexpected.  Unlikely, I rather expect, is the Winchesters (or their allies) working with the enemy... again.  So, yeah, Castiel and Mary will seek out the BMoL to jail break Sam and Dean.  Because who else?  *yawn*

ETA  I would absolutely love it, btw, if they did something like you mentioned.  But I really think the well has run dry.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Demented Daisy

[AwesomO4000]

I agree, and Sam should be rightly annoyed about that, too, because Lady McFullOfHerself should give Sam the creeps... and be someone he wants to punch.

[DittyDotDot]

Well, considering they already worked with them in LOTUS--more or less--I'm not sure how unlikely it is. Yawn indeed!

[Demented Daisy]

You know, I think that TPTB think they're giving us something new with the BMoL because, technically, they are new to the SPN universe.  But the story itself and (so far) their place in it seems very by-the-numbers.  Over the years, almost every ally the Winchesters have made has been killed, so who can they go to but their frenemies?  

It's just so damn redundant.

[Aeryn13]

Written by Dabb? Unfortunately, I expected that. Probably better to skip it altogether.

[MysteryGuest]

It would be nice if they just rallied other hunters instead, but I agree it will probably be just he BMOL.  I really don't want them as allies at this point.  They've proven to be enemies up until last episode, so I don't trust them at all.

Edited January 10, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

Maybe Cas will try to get help from Henriksen.  He should be in Heaven right?

[catrox14]

 

This Tweet from Jared is kind of interesting in that he's filming without the other three main cast. SO, with whom is he filming and why is  he practically naked (one layer),? Lady GoJumpInAFrozenLake?  Mary? Rowena? Mr. Ketch? Mr Worst Facial Hair EVER?

YES I KNOW he's whining about the cold to Jensen but he might still be only in one layer for whatever hes shooting

Edited January 8, 2017 by catrox14

[Morrigan2575]

What does #AKF mean?

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

What does #AKF mean?

Always Keep Fighting which is his campaign for mental health awareness.

[Morrigan2575]

Thank You!

[catrox14]

Diana Ballard (linda Blair) is still alive right? Maybe she could turn up and help spring the boys.

Edited January 8, 2017 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

I'm going to assume they turn to the BMOL, but that's hardly an "unlikely source".  Jared's already called them for help once, so doing it again would hardly be surprising.  The surprise will be if it isn't them.

[Demented Daisy]

"Unlikely source"....  Is it possible that they've figured out that Death isn't actually dead?  I can't imagine him being willing to rescue Sam and Dean, though.

[MysteryGuest]

Maybe it's just me, but in light of what's going on in our world, I could really use some new SPN episodes as a distraction.  This particular hiatus has seemed especially long.  I'm ready for this season's story to continue, and am hoping for some good episodes coming up.  

[catrox14]

Putting this under spoilers sinve its a bit of a location spoiler

 

Jensen back on set it seems

[catrox14]

So it looks like the Dean loses his memory ep was written by Meredith Glynn who wrote the Hitler episode per the SuperWiki. Its being directed by John Badham who directed First Born.

This from Superwiki Tumblr

http://supernaturalwiki.tumblr.com/post/155714797120/supernatural-upcoming-episodes-in-season-12-the

 

Quote

Supernatural - Upcoming episodes in Season 12

The airdates for the remainder of the season have not been confirmed, however given there are 15 episodes to air, it is likely they will air pretty much straight through with only probably 2 weeks off.

Check out the SupernaturalWiki for updated information as we get it!

2.09 First Blood Supernatural returns on 26th January 2017 at the new time of 8pm on Thursdays.

Writer Andrew Dabb; Director Bob Singer

Episode Synopsis and photo

12.10 Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets

Writer Steve Yockey; Director Thomas J. Wright

12.11 Regarding Dean

Writer Meredith Glynn; Director John Badham  

12.12 Stuck in the Middle (With You)

Writer Davy Perez; Director Richard Speight

12.13 Family Feud

Writer Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming; Director P.J. Pesce

12.14 The Raid

Writer Robert Berens; Director Johnny MacCarthy

12.15 Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell

 Writer Davy Perez; Director Nina Lopez-Corrado

Edited January 13, 2017 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

So it looks like the Dean loses his memory ep was written by Meredith Glynn who wrote the Hitler episode per the SuperWiki. Its being directed by John Badham who directed First Born.

Well, if the results of Dean regaining his memory are true to the movie the episode is named after, it will be a somewhat bittersweet thing for Dean to get his memory back.*

* Harrison Ford's character in "Regarding Henry" wasn't so happy about who he found himself to be when he started remembering again. I especially remember the "Ritz" incident. Amnesia Henry thought he was remembering "Ritz" because he liked Ritz crackers - and even painted "art" Andy Warhol style with Ritz cracker boxes - but it turned out "Ritz" was

Spoiler

from the Ritz Carlton where he was having an extra-marital affair.

If I remember correctly, the movie wasn't the best in terms of execution, but I thought that the idea was intriguing.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Well, if the results of Dean regaining his memory are true to the movie the episode is named after, it will be a somewhat bittersweet thing for Dean to get his memory back.*

* Harrison Ford's character in "Regarding Henry" wasn't so happy about who he found himself to be when he started remembering again. I especially remember the "Ritz" incident. Amnesia Henry thought he was remembering "Ritz" because he liked Ritz crackers - and even painted "art" Andy Warhol style with Ritz cracker boxes - but it turned out "Ritz" was

  Reveal hidden contents

from the Ritz Carlton where he was having an extra-marital affair.

If I remember correctly, the movie wasn't the best in terms of execution, but I thought that the idea was intriguing.

 

I totally expect Dean to be unhappy with his memories.  Where shall we start?
- "complicated" (TM Chuck) childhood starting with Mom dying
- Dad dying
- Sam dying/hell deal
- EATEN by Hellhounds
- Hell for 40 years, became the Torturer's Apprentice
- Discovered Heaven was Memorex
- Watched his brother jump into the pit of Hell
- Briefly a vamp
- Had his Grandpa feed him to ghouls
- Erased the memories of a woman and boy he cared about
- Betrayed by Cas playing God
- Purgatory for a year
- Sticking an angel in Sam against his wishes
- Death of: Ellen, Jo, Rufus, Bobby, Kevin, Charlie.... who else have I forgotten?
- Mark of Cain madness
- Those months he was a demon... yeah... good times... NOT
- Murderous mayhem moments 
- Nearly lost Sam so many times he's probably lost count (I know I have)
- Powerless against God's sister

Have I forgotten any of the biggies?  

[MysteryGuest]

I really hope the writing is up to the premise for all of these episodes.  They sound intriguing, but can they pull them off...that's the question.  I truly hope so.

[catrox14]

I reaaaaalllly hope this is akin to Regarding Henry in name only. Henry was a dick of the highest order, who cheated on his wife and was a jerk to his daughter and the premise was that he got nice after his injury. Do Not Want another round of Dean is a dick BS. That said, in this ep Dean loses his memory over time like dementia so that makes me less apprehensive it will be the Regarding Henry lesson.