Spoilers With Speculation

[goldy]

12 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Say what? All the fan-favorite hunters I can think of are dead...are we talking a whole bunch of ghost stories here? ;)

LOL, IKR? The only ones I can think about are; Krissy, Eileen (the deaf hunter from last season) and maybe Garth (though he's not a hunter anymore). There's also the gay hunters from last season, but if I remember correctly the episode they were in ended with them retiring from hunting.

[DittyDotDot]

10 minutes ago, goldy said:

LOL, IKR? The only ones I can think about are; Krissy, Eileen (the deaf hunter from last season) and maybe Garth (though he's not a hunter anymore). There's also the gay hunters from last season, but if I remember correctly the episode they were in ended with them retiring from hunting.

Maybe they're using the term hunters loosely? We know Jodi and Donna are coming back. While not hunters, they have hunted. Same with Garth, more or less. I'd be happy to see Eileen or the gay hunters back, but I'm not invested in them as characters; they just didn't jump out to me as full-fledged and vivid characters. They did seem to be well-received by fandom though.

I just find it funny the show thinks there are clear-cut fan favorites with this group of fans. Jodi, Donna and Garth are loathed as much as they are loved. I just wonder what their criteria is for deciding something is favored in this very eclectic fandom?

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Say what? All the fan-favorite hunters I can think of are dead...are we talking a whole bunch of ghost stories here? ;)

That was my exact thought as well. All of them are dead except Jody, Donna, Garth, Claire, the deaf Hunter. I don't think Claire is exactly a fan favorite. 

Barring ghost hunter visits, I'm wondering if like I speculated before, Mary's resurrection does something to the timeline or has a butterfly effect. That it changes things all along the way.  Maybe Amara resurrected a lot more people than just Mary if she thinks that's what Dean needed? Hmmm....

On another note, I found this interesting. 

I can't find the post again (this is a gif from a different post) but some clever person on tumblr noticed the sign from Mystery Spot is over Cas' shoulder. They had a pic of the Mystery Spot pamphlet for comparison and it jives.

So that raises some questions for me.

Why is Cas is crawling out of some kind of ravine with partially destroyed Mystery Spot sign over his shoulder? Is Cas there because that's where Lady McGoAwayNow sent Cas when she banished him? If so, did she send him to the past, present or future?

Is it the rubble of a destroyed Mystery Spot? If so why is it destroyed? 

Is it the Mystery Spot in Florida where Dean died 100 times? Is this a flashback to Mystery Spot itself?  Could this be a hint that Gabriel is alive or that Mary's resurrection is having that butterfly effect? Will there be a bit of Mystery Spot 2.0?? 

Or is this just simply an easter egg for the fans?

Edited September 8, 2016 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

Quote

If the writers and producers paid attention to fans, they would have gotten rid of Amara after 3 episodes. I may be hanging out with the wrong people, but I don't remember reading that anyone liked her. 

I really liked her and I know quite a few people who did as well. That they didn`t use the vast potential of the storyline wasn`t the character`s fault.  I really enjoyed a Dean-focused mytharc character like that. My only joy in Season 11. But then I think it`s natural for character focused on mostly one other character to appeal to the fans of that character for the most part as others don`t really get anything out of it. Same for me and stanning Lucifer or Season 4`s incarnation of Ruby. No appeal. Only Amelia seems to have drawn real meh reactions across the board.  

Seeing as there isn`t really one Big Bad in Season 12, I can only hope they have cast some actors with screen presence and charisma for some MOLs. Lady Deadeyes will not win me over with this particular actress and if she is the figurehead? Please no. I think they might play her a little bit Bela-esque and that was a disaster writing-wise but at least I like the actress.  

[SueB]

I also liked Amara.  I always felt some sympathy for her, even when she was murdering --- which sounds terrible.  But for me, I felt like she was acting within her "nature".  She didn't appreciate humans (except Dean) as anything but her brother's creations.  And her way of thinking was just totally foreign to us. But that makes sense IMO. We're used to the Supernatural universe which lived with the Supernatural God's (Chuck's) morals. Free Will good. Murder bad. It was all an opposite construct for Amara -- "He is the Light, I am the Dark".  And while her willingness to ignore Dean's choices (she IS the anti-free will) was creepy, I also felt like she was really trying with Dean to understand WHY he was making these choices.  I also felt a little bad for her, not just because she had been locked away but because she was confused all the time.  She didn't understand why she was attached to Dean but she clearly was.  She didn't understand why all this creation was necessary.  She craved aloneness.   

So, in the end I found her a fascinating Big Bad.  Confused, amoral, and uber-powerful.  But she was also curious and for quite a while seeking to understand.  In the end, she was ageless and childlike and I liked the ultimate solution they chose.  I DO think Carver may have been planning something more sexual between she and Dean and either fan squick or Jensen squick (because of the non-con or her child-like nature) may have caused them to tweek that aspect.  Carver was not involved in the last set of episodes (at all as far as I can tell). But once introduced, S11 was always leading to a Light/Dark (God/Amara) showdown IMO.

[catrox14]

Promo

 

[catrox14]

So Rick Springfield looks like Alice Cooper...

Mary: "Right now all that matters is getting Sam back".

Cas: "I wanna catch Lucifer'

Also, I'm gonna bitch about this for a long time.  The promo has

"Hunting Things, Saving People, Still the Family Business.

Not Saving People, Hunting Things, Still the Family Business.

Really, CW Promo monkeys. You chose to not actually put the most famous phrase in the entire show in the RIGHT ORDER?  Sigh. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by catrox14

[Myrelle]

Quote

I also liked Amara.

Me too. And I truly thought that she would be a kind of "window" into the same sort of darkness that Dean carries inside himself also; but alas, we didn't get that. Instead we got Chuck as God and all the nonsense that went along with it. But whatever. They went the way they chose. It isn't the way that I would have went or chosen for the writing to go, but the fact that they kept Dean solely at the center of that mytharc sl was a first, IMO; and for that reason alone I didn't and couldn't hate Amara or that sl-not in the least. I even found the finale to be somewhat of a saving grace for the entire season-and Dean wasn't even BadAss as much as he was the most necessary component in the end, which I feared  more than anything else as being the thing that would most likely be  tossed aside concerning that sl, as it had so often happened that way in the past.

I still feel that she would have been a perfect parallel for Dean's struggle with the darkness and light within himself, though, and consider it another wasted opportunity and storyline for both Dean and JA, to be perfectly honest, though.

As for those who didn't like Amara or the storyline, all I have to say is the circles one travels in regarding the online community DO sometimes make a difference. The ones I travelled in loved that storyline and also hoped for more out of it, but given the givens of the writing on this show, were not really surprised at the end game.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Myrelle

[goldy]

Aww, poor Sammy.

I'm surprised that I'm actually looking forward to the MOL storyline. 

Spoiler

 

[pixelcat]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Also, I'm gonna bitch about this for a long time.  The promo has

"Hunting Things, Saving People, Still the Family Business.

Not Saving People, Hunting Things, Still the Family Business.

Really, CW Promo monkeys. You chose to not actually put the most famous phrase in the entire show in the RIGHT ORDER?  Sigh. 

/slow golf clap for CW.

But I've noticed they screw a lot of things up, so why am I not surprised.

[goldy]

 

Looks like  Jodie and Doona will get to meet Mary in episode 6 (that's the "hunters wake" episode).

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, goldy said:

 

Looks like  Jodie and Doona will get to meet Mary in episode 6 (that's the "hunters wake" episode).

Very cool! 

[Demented Daisy]

I think we can agree that some of Dean's biggest mistakes are made when he's in "Save Sammy" mode.  Will Mary be the same way?  What character traits will she and Dean share (like John and Sam did)?

Other than that, my reaction to that promo was a solid "yawn".  Can we get back to the show making them instead of the CW?

[shang yiet]

I look forward to seeing Sam with Mary, the woman he never knew. She never had the chance to cut off the crust of his sandwiches. I find this sad. I think Sam's relationship with her is just as complicated and meaningful as the Mary/Dean relationship, maybe even more so. She's this big mystery for him. Now he can relate to her as a real person and not just a fantasy of what might have  been. 

[DittyDotDot]

10 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

What character traits will she and Dean share (like John and Sam did)?

It's hard to say because we haven't really seen much of Mary yet, but based on In the Beginning I got the impression Dean and Mary were more alike than not. They both seem to rely heavily on their instincts and both seem to have a savior/protector personality. 

[pixelcat]

50 minutes ago, goldy said:

 

Looks like  Jodie and Doona will get to meet Mary in episode 6 (that's the "hunters wake" episode).

Anyone else secretly hoping that the hunter's wake is for Claire?

Of course then I feel bad about it, as she's had a pretty crap life since Castiel intervened.  Took her father away (who then got killed), which led to her mother abandoning Claire and eventually getting killed, which led to Claire into a sucktastic life of a runaway.  I was a bit ambivalent about Claire, but I did like her in the episode last season and always hoped that those events would lead to her feeling more a part of Jody and Alex's life.

[goldy]

I never hated Claire. There were times when she was a bit annoying (as teenage characters often are) but I always found her interesting.

[Demented Daisy]

13 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

Anyone else secretly hoping that the hunter's wake is for Claire?

I'd rather it be Alex than Claire.  

[pixelcat]

4 minutes ago, goldy said:

I never hated Claire. There were times when she was a bit annoying (as teenage characters often are) but I always found her interesting.

Exactly, me too!

Although I could see her going out blaze of glory style protecting Alex and/or Jody.

[goldy]

56 minutes ago, shang yiet said:

I look forward to seeing Sam with Mary, the woman he never knew. She never had the chance to cut off the crust of his sandwiches. I find this sad. I think Sam's relationship with her is just as complicated and meaningful as the Mary/Dean relationship, maybe even more so. She's this big mystery for him. Now he can relate to her as a real person and not just a fantasy of what might have  been. 

I'm looking forward to it too. I wonder how he'll first meet her; will she be the one that saves him from the MoL? Or will Dean save Sam and later introduce Mary to him. There's almost no spoilers regarding Sam and Mary.

55 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

It's hard to say because we haven't really seen much of Mary yet, but based on In the Beginning I got the impression Dean and Mary were more alike than not. They both seem to rely heavily on their instincts and both seem to have a savior/protector personality. 

In the promo, when she said; "Right now, all that matters, is getting Sam back" I thought it was a very Dean thing to say.

13 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

Exactly, me too!

Although I could see her going out blaze of glory style protecting Alex and/or Jody.

I can see her being very protective of Alex and Jody too, but I still hope she won't die. I mean, I don't think I'll be too upset if she'll die but I feel like her character has a lot of potential and It's too early for her to go.

[pixelcat]

6 minutes ago, goldy said:

I can see her being very protective of Alex and Jody too, but I still hope she won't die. I mean, I don't think I'll be too upset if she'll die but I feel like her character has a lot of potential and It's too early for her to go.

I'd like to see Claire go off with Mary to be a hunter-in-training, having their own adventures, and call on Sam & Dean occasionally to help out.

[goldy]

9 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

I'd like to see Claire go off with Mary to be a hunter-in-training, having their own adventures, and call on Sam & Dean occasionally to help out.

If I was Mary and I've missed 30 years of my kids life, I would have wanted to spend as much time with them as possible. Mary leaving her kids again to tutor a stranger feels wrong to me.

[goldy]

‘Supernatural’ Casts ‘Pretty Little Liars’ Actress for Season 12 Role

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/supernatural-season-12-kara-royster-pretty-little-liars-1201855234/

“Pretty Little Liars” actress Kara Royster has booked a guest role in Season 12 of The CW’s “Supernatural,” Variety has learned exclusively.

Royster will play Alicia, a fellow hunter who crosses paths with Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) in episode six of the upcoming season. Raised by a witch, Alicia and her brother Max now hunt the things that go bump in the night.

[catrox14]

4 hours ago, goldy said:

If I was Mary and I've missed 30 years of my kids life, I would have wanted to spend as much time with them as possible. Mary leaving her kids again to tutor a stranger feels wrong to me.

I'm not a mother so I can't speak to the personal side of it but since the boys are full grown adults who have lived complete lives without their mother and don't really NEED her per se maybe she will think her life might be better served to help younger hunters just starting out. Like maybe she'll try to make up for her deal that set the boys on the path they are on now, by helping other younger hunters who need it.

[goldy]

55 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not a mother so I can't speak to the personal side of it but since the boys are full grown adults who have lived complete lives without their mother and don't really NEED her per se maybe she will think her life might be better served to help younger hunters just starting out. Like maybe she'll try to make up for her deal that set the boys on the path they are on now, by helping other younger hunters who need it.

They don't need her to feed them or cloth them but I'm sure they would want to have her around, to get to know her or at the very least develop some kind of a bond with her. They spend the first 20+ years of their lives trying to revenge her death, they spend a lifetime thinking about the horrible way she died, I'm sure they feel like they missed out on having (what most people would consider) a very important person in their life. After losing their father and so many of their friends over the years, I just don't see them giving up on family the Winchesters are all about family, especially Dean.

Edited September 9, 2016 by goldy

[companionenvy]

I agree that they'll have to find a convincing reason for her to leave. But I would find "Mary's pretty messed up right now" a convincing reason, under the circumstances. It seems like the initial reunion goes well, but I could totally see Mary needing some space after everything sinks in. I don't think that would make her a bad mother, either.

What I'm not going to find convincing is if the writers try to sell her as "super Mary." Yes, Mary was raised a hunter, and can presumably hold her own. But Sam and Dean have dealt with so much more than the typical hunter does over the years. I don't want her to be out of her depth, but if she's presented as more skilled or knowledgeable than her boys, I'll call foul. Realistically, her level of hunting experience is probably equivalent to that of Season 1 Sam. 

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, goldy said:

fter losing their father and so many of their friends over the years, I just don't see them giving up on family the Winchesters are all about family, especially Dean.

Why would it mean they were giving up on family if she went to help someone else? I don't get that leap.

The boys didn't ask for Mary to be alive again. Dean wished a long time ago for her to not be dead.  But he also realized the problems with that. Amara is the one that made this weird assumption this is what Dean needed. Dean needed his mother when he was a little boy. Maybe Dean longs for her or Sam wants to know her but this is a massive shift for them.

No one is suggesting that Mary is going to be evicted from the bunker and sent packing to figure out her life. She may want to do it for herself. Mary may come to find that her place in life is so weird and peculiar now that she'll want something else. It would be HER choice. She might not even be able to handle the guilt over what her actions set into place.   YMMV

[goldy]

24 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

I agree that they'll have to find a convincing reason for her to leave. But I would find "Mary's pretty messed up right now" a convincing reason, under the circumstances. It seems like the initial reunion goes well, but I could totally see Mary needing some space after everything sinks in. I don't think that would make her a bad mother, either.

Obviously needing to have some space will not make her bad mother. I just think that it stands to logic that both Mary and the boys would want to stick together after all these years. Maybe after a while she'll need some space, that's totally cool, but I would think that she still would want to be close. Mary moving away to tutor some kid she doesn't know just doesn't feel right to me and I agree  that they'll have to find a better reason to make her leave.

 

17 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Why would it mean they were giving up on family if she went to help someone else? I don't get that leap.

The boys didn't ask for Mary to be alive again. Dean wished a long time ago for her to not be dead.  But he also realized the problems with that. Amara is the one that made this weird assumption this is what Dean needed. Dean needed his mother when he was a little boy. Maybe Dean longs for her or Sam wants to know her but this is a massive shift for them.

No one is suggesting that Mary is going to be evicted from the bunker and sent packing to figure out her life. She may want to do it for herself. Mary may come to find that her place in life is so weird and peculiar now that she'll want something else. It would be HER choice. She might not even be able to handle the guilt over what her actions set into place.   YMMV

Because if they're not together they can't be there for one another. they can't protect each other. John never wanted Sam to leave for Stanford because he was afraid of what will happen to him when he's not around to protect him, Dean is always worried about Sam when he's not with him and I'm sure he would feel the same about his mom. He would want to have her around, not just to get to know her but also to make sure she's safe. 

Yes neither Dean nor Sam asked for her to come back, but her being back is a reality that none of them can control or change and they would want to do the right thing with the reality that landed on their laps, and the right thing would be (if you're thinking like a Winchester) to stick together.

I just feel like Mary choosing to leave or the boys being okay with her leaving is not right. I'm sorry JMO.

[catrox14]

This is a different situation.

Mary's resurrection means there is another person now that makes them ALL more vulnerable than before. All of their current freienemies/enemies have a new target to use against Dean and Sam  and conversely, can use them against Mary. Being together may not actually be what's best for them.

There SHOULD be some major emotional/psychological fallout from Mary being alive.  How much of their lives are they going to share with Mary? Will they tell her that John sold his soul for Dean and Dean in turn sold his soul for Sam? Are they going to tell her that they both have been in Hell? Will they tell her that Dean had become an actual demon?

If they tell her or someone else tells her, she might find those are things she cannot accept.  I would not fault any of them if they came to a conclusion that being together could actually make their lives worse. 

[pixelcat]

17 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

There SHOULD be some major emotional/psychological fallout from Mary being alive.  How much of their lives are they going to share with Mary? Will they tell her that John sold his soul for Dean and Dean in turn sold his soul for Sam? Are they going to tell her that they both have been in Hell? Will they tell her that Dean had become an actual demon?

They should give her the books and let her get caught (somewhat) up.

On second thought.... maybe not.  "I'm full-frontal in here, dude."  Probably not something Mom needs to be reading about!

[goldy]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This is a different situation.

Mary's resurrection means there is another person now that makes them ALL more vulnerable than before. All of their current freienemies/enemies have a new target to use against Dean and Sam  and conversely, can use them against Mary. Being together may not actually be what's best for them.

There SHOULD be some major emotional/psychological fallout from Mary being alive.  How much of their lives are they going to share with Mary? Will they tell her that John sold his soul for Dean and Dean in turn sold his soul for Sam? Are they going to tell her that they both have been in Hell? Will they tell her that Dean had become an actual demon?

If they tell her or someone else tells her, she might find those are things she cannot accept.  I would not fault any of them if they came to a conclusion that being together could actually make their lives worse. 

Yes, Mary being around does make them more vulnerable but the monsters out there will always find their weak spot. For Dean, his weak spot has always been Sam, and now its going to be Sam and Mary. And just like he never wanted to leave Sam or wanted Sam to leave him, it is my opinion, that he would not want to leave Mary or for her to leave him.

[pixelcat]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

It seems like the initial reunion goes well, but I could totally see Mary needing some space after everything sinks in. I don't think that would make her a bad mother, either.

This is along my line of thinking as well.  It remains to be seen if Mary blinks her eyes and suddenly her two children are 30 years older, or if she was aware of those 30 years, wondering what happened to them, if they were alive or dead.

Either way, her children are now strangers to her.  I can see her wanting a bit of space to get used to the idea.  Perhaps being around them, after the shock has worn off, is just too much to deal with emotionally.  Claire would give her someone else to focus on, and would also help her get back into the groove of hunting, if that's what she really wants to do.  She will eventually have to do something; I can't see her going on every hunt with Sam & Dean, nor can I see her just sitting in the bunker the whole time.  I also can't see Sam & Dean giving up the hunting life just because Mom's back.

Hopefully this storyline will turn out to be as interesting as us discussing it is!  I'm actually excited to see what happens (as long as it doesn't turn into a 3-episode-done-demon!Dean arc...)

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, goldy said:

And just like he never wanted to leave Sam or wanted Sam to leave him, it is my opinion, that he would not want to leave Mary or for her to leave him.

I understand that sentiment. And it's not that Dean would WANT to leave Mary.

I don't see them having Mary live with the boys for too long. That's why they wrote out John early on. They needed the boys to be on their own. Seems like this will be the same thing eventually. 

[trxr4kids]

I'm honestly just hoping they don't have her call Dean weird nicknames as other characters have, if I hear Deano one more time I wont be held responsible.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, trxr4kids said:

I'm honestly just hoping they don't have her call Dean weird nicknames as other characters have, if I hear Deano one more time I wont be held responsible.

Personally I'm hoping for 'Punkin' but I suspect that's too much to ask for. 

Amara both knew and didn't know Dean. It was kinda weird, like she could tap into him longing to be with her and yet not able to do so (scene in the forest). She didn't read his mind so much as sense his need IMO. So, I think she sensed that deep seeded pain** he had and when she saw the picture of his mother, I think it spoke to her as to what he needed. 

** Early loss of a parent leaves a permanent mark. That doesn't mean Dean was remotely actively thinking of the loss of Mary. Just that this particular kind of early loss is etched into his emotional fabric. I'll buy that she could sense this familial pain. 

Of course it creates all sorts of problems and there is no recovery from that initial loss. That happened. Their lives were shaped without her. But perhaps she will provide the parental seal of approval (eventually) that most humans crave and many do not get. He got that from his Dad prior to John's death but Sam did not. So Sam could use a little approval too. Not that I expect that any time soon. And her finding out about stuff is going to be painful for everyone. It's meaty stuff for the writers IMO so I imagine it'll be played for both laughed and angst. 

As for Mary, I guess that I'd expect her to have a strong protective instinct even with them being grown up. I don't see her voluntarily leaving them until she's assured that they are in fact much better hunters than she's ever seen. Remember, her Dad was pretty kick-ass (although evil at the end). I expect a little gratuitous bad-assery from her but she'll come to the conclusion (IMO) that she may be more of a liability than an asset. It won't be for a while (EP 6-10 range) but I think they probably had a broad notion of how they would deal with Mary long term even before they brought her back. I also expect her to be missing from many MOTW eps.  Staying in the bunker, recovering from an injury, binge-reading Carver Edlund, etc...  So I don't think her presence is going to be a drag on the boys at all. 

My Mary wish list includes getting the full Apocalypse and God/Amara story (mostly offscreen but enough that we know she knows), the boys hiding Adam's existence, some brief coverage of the loves and friendships they've had, and some discussion of John.  

IMO, the entire purpose of the Mary story line is to show a different side of Sam and Dean and have character growth.  That's both good (we don't lose focus on the main characters) and bad (yet another woman whose existence is to provide insight into the male psyche).  BUT, with the show focused on two male leads and two additional male regulars, I'm not sure how the 'bad' gets avoided  and with her being their Mom, I'll be stunned if she has conversations that pass the Bechdel test.  

 

Bottom line one for the TL; DR:  I think Mary will stay and have a compelling story line until she's convinced the boys are not only fine but potentially safer without her.  

[goldy]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I understand that sentiment. And it's not that Dean would WANT to leave Mary.

I don't see them having Mary live with the boys for too long. That's why they wrote out John early on. They needed the boys to be on their own. Seems like this will be the same thing eventually. 

I realize that eventually, they will have to write Mary out (well, unless she'll become a fan favorite - which I don't predict happening) but doing it by having her just leave the boys to teach Claire the "art" of hunting does not only feels wrong to me, it also feels like its out of character for both Sam and Dean to be fine with it. Watching 11 seasons  of this show. lead me to the opinion that the Winchesters, and especially Dean, put great importance on family, they want to be close to their family, they want to save and protect their family, and they feel that they are stronger together as a family. So, it is my opinion, that the writers will have to find a better reason for Mary to leave.
 

6 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

I'm honestly just hoping they don't have her call Dean weird nicknames as other characters have, if I hear Deano one more time I wont be held responsible.

lol, let's hope not ;)

4 hours ago, SueB said:

My Mary wish list includes getting the full Apocalypse and God/Amara story (mostly offscreen but enough that we know she knows), the boys hiding Adam's existence, some brief coverage of the loves and friendships they've had, and some discussion of John.  

IMO, the entire purpose of the Mary story line is to show a different side of Sam and Dean and have character growth.  That's both good (we don't lose focus on the main characters) and bad (yet another woman whose existence is to provide insight into the male psyche).  BUT, with the show focused on two male leads and two additional male regulars, I'm not sure how the 'bad' gets avoided  and with her being their Mom, I'll be stunned if she has conversations that pass the Bechdel test.  

 

Bottom line one for the TL; DR:  I think Mary will stay and have a compelling story line until she's convinced the boys are not only fine but potentially safer without her.  

That's what I expect from Mary's character too. I am all for her to encourage some character growth and for her to give us the background stories behind everything we saw happening to Sam and Dean in the last 11 seasons. I just feel like writing her out wouldn't be that easy. I feel like her just leaving because she feels like the boys are fine and potentially even safer without her is too easy. The Winchesters are not normal people, they don't lead a normal life, they're never really safe, she can lose them all over again at any time, so I would think that she would want to be with them as long as she can. But that's just me and how I see the show and what I feel motivate the characters. We can agree to disagree.

[MysteryGuest]

I'm guessing that the return of Mary was done in true SPN fashion, meaning they brought her back as a big cliff hanger without a clue as to what to do next.  Now that she's back and is actually alive, not just a ghostly presence or a flashback, I don't think it will be so easy to just get rid of her.  As a fan of the show, I don't really want the boys to have to through the death of their mother all over again, especially now that they've gotten to know her.  This doesn't mean they won't go there, just that I won't particularly like it.  I didn't really want her character brought back because it changes the dynamic of the show, but for some reason, the writers never listen to me...

So short of just killing her off again, what do they do with her?   I honestly have no clue.  In the short-term, having her back gives them some interesting story opportunities, but in the long-run, I'm not sure how they resolve her character.  And if I were a betting woman, I'd say they probably don't, either.  They very well might be waiting to see exactly what the fan reaction is to having her back before they make that ultimate decision.    

[DittyDotDot]

9 hours ago, SueB said:

Amara both knew and didn't know Dean. It was kinda weird, like she could tap into him longing to be with her and yet not able to do so (scene in the forest). She didn't read his mind so much as sense his need IMO. So, I think she sensed that deep seeded pain** he had and when she saw the picture of his mother, I think it spoke to her as to what he needed. 

I think that's why Dean was drawn to Amara, though, her "bliss", or whatever it was she did to people when sucking out their souls, was a sort of peace that Dean has been looking for throughout the whole run of the show. It's not exactly the peace he's been looking for, but felt good anyway. So, I think Amara thought bringing Mary back would give Dean a different kind of peace and one more akin to what he's been searching for. 

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm guessing that the return of Mary was done in true SPN fashion, meaning they brought her back as a big cliff hanger without a clue as to what to do next.  Now that she's back and is actually alive, not just a ghostly presence or a flashback, I don't think it will be so easy to just get rid of her.  As a fan of the show, I don't really want the boys to have to through the death of their mother all over again, especially now that they've gotten to know her.  This doesn't mean they won't go there, just that I won't particularly like it.  I didn't really want her character brought back because it changes the dynamic of the show, but for some reason, the writers never listen to me...

Yeah, I was pretty sure they did bring Mary back mostly for shock value, but it does, so far, seem like they have more plans for it than they did with other shock-value cliffhangers.

It will probably shake up some of the dynamic, but I think shaking up their dynamic might be a good thing now. What I mean is, I think they needed to get rid of John back in S2 so Sam and Dean could carry on, so to speak. With John there, I'm not sure they could've become the men they were. Plus, John had knowledge, not only about what was to come, but knowledge of the hunting world and the supernatural Sam and Dean needed to learn on their own. Basically, Sam and Dean needed to leave home and make their own mistakes in order to become the men they are now. I'm not sure John would've allowed them to make their own mistakes.

But now that they've made those mistakes and grown into actual men, I think it might actually be an interesting time to bring a parent back into their lives. Especially a parent who was never a part of that dynamic in the first place. There's no patterns for them to fall back into like there was with John and they'll have to find their own dynamic of how to function as a family for the first time.

It could be interesting, unless it's not...and so it goes with this little silly show.

Edited September 10, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

I think the reality of Mary being around will convince them all in the long run that she can`t say. I think what all three of them will believe in the beginning is that Mary`s death has been reversed. Well, it hasn`t. In a way she is still dead and will always be. Namely the mothers of two little children died and she never came back when they were growing up. That she comes back now changes nothing about this. Same for Mary in return. She was dead when they were kids and she missed it all. 

Once they all realize they can never recapture that parental relationship, not now and not ever, they can possibly form a new relationship with her. Or possibly they can not. But it won`t be the one they lost. It will be one among adults. And that will mean that eventually they can all live apart. Those thirty-ish years in between make all the difference.

For Amara, she wouldn`t have understood that. She and God are eternal beings, they can jump back in even after eons. If she wanted to change what I think she did want to change for Dean, she would have had to reset the timeline to beginning of the show and allowing Mary to live. And that would have been the ending of the series. Would have been a very controversial move because in essence it would have cancelled out the entire run of the show. Normally, I would find such a move by a TV show utterly enraging. In this one, I don`t know, I could have liked it even. Everything that has happened would still have happened and their reward would have been a do-over. Not too bad. But, not what happened.  

[SueB]

8 hours ago, goldy said:

I just feel like writing her out wouldn't be that easy. I feel like her just leaving because she feels like the boys are fine and potentially even safer without her is too easy. The Winchesters are not normal people, they don't lead a normal life, they're never really safe, she can lose them all over again at any time, so I would think that she would want to be with them as long as she can. But that's just me and how I see the show and what I feel motivate the characters. We can agree to disagree.

Actually I don't disagree with you.  I was trying to characterize a condition where Mary might be alive in the Supernatural universe but not with the boys for the long term.  But I think we're headed for sacrifice and tears because that's the Winchester way. 

 

"What show you been watching?" - Dean Winchester to Castiel (EP 8.23). 

[catrox14]

IMO, they've painted themselves into a corner with Mary's resurrection. IMO they are going to be hard-pressed to get out of it to the satisfaction of this viewer.

If they kill Mary again, even if it's a plot where she volunteers to sacrifice herself to save one or both of the boys, or anyone really, then that's cruel and unusual punishment for Mary. She died once because of a deal to save John's life. She died watching Azazel bleed into Sammy's mouth.  Then her soul died again when she burned up to kill the poltergeist.  And there is no compelling evidence that she's been at peace in Heaven, or being tortured in Hell. And there is no reason for her to be in Purgatory. If she was in the Empty then I guess if God(dess) wants you out of the thing NO ONE comes back from it's kind of an empty threat now...(pun intended :P)  

If Mary doesn't die via sacrifice but is killed by an enemy, then she's been fridged at least once or twice if one thinks her first death is a fridging. That's not going to go over well at all even if we get all the angst, tears and sadness from the boys. It's the pilot all over again.

The boys still need to go on the road to hunt so they'll be away from Mary regularly anyway. She could stay behind at the bunker and do research but the bunker isn't exactly the safest place now since everybody and their brother, sister, father and mother can get in.  What is the difference if she goes off to live somewhere else to find her own life when they'll be separated all the time anyway?

I've speculated about her training young hunters just so she has something to do but given she wanted to be as far away from hunting as she could and never intended to raise her children as hunters, I'm inclined to think it makes a lot more sense for her to reject hunting as a way of life.  She might be willing to do what it takes to save Sam but hunting on the regular, I'm not so sure she would or should.

Narratively, her going back to hunting makes every ounce of angst every wrung out of that important ironic differentiation between Mary and John...pointless.  I don't want that to happen.

If they erase Mary's aversion to hunting and make her settle for living a life she truly never wanted and even lied to John about and swore she would never do. "It's the worst thing I can think of" is a shitty "plot twist".

It's kind of sick and wrong IMO for her to be compelled to hunt again because she thinks she has no other choices. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I want her to reject hunting as a life for her and go do something else.

[pixelcat]

I think we should all speculate which gif @catrox14 is going to choose for each episode thread.  Thursday, so many choices!

[SueB]

9 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

I think we should all speculate which gif @catrox14 is going to choose for each episode thread.  Thursday, so many choices!

There are?  

[pixelcat]

10 minutes ago, SueB said:

There are?  

 

One more I can think off the top of my head is Crowley talking to Castiel: "Ah, Castiel. Angel of Thursday. Just not your day is it?" but I can't seem to find a good gif to go with that one.

[catrox14]

See the lack of a happy GIF to use on Thursdays pisses me off. Just another reason why the move to Thursday sucks! Lol Like "Hey Tuesday pig in a poke!" and "Yesterday was Tuesday but today is Tuesday too" and  and "It's Wednesday"  are funny and more or less happy.  Teddy Bear doctors is cute but not as satisfying IMO but is on the top of my list just for lack of choices. "it must be Thursday" is not happy at all but If the season goes to crap I might use it. The Castiel one is not happy either.

I'll keep digging for others.

[pixelcat]

Also found this (also not happy):

"Two Minutes to Midnight": (Crowley) This time next Thursday, we'll all be living in zombieland.

For some reason I thought there were a lot more references to Thursday.  Guess I'm not remembering things right.

[SueB]

But I LIKE the Teddy Bear Doctors! *stomps foot petulantly*.  I know, I know, too specific.  *sigh*

[Demented Daisy]

On the Mary topic, I wouldn't be surprised if, at some point in the season, Mary realizes that life on earth is not for her.  The world has, to borrow a phrase from Stephen King, moved on.  She doesn't belong there.  

So, if they can get the requisite actors for the cameos, Chuck and John could show up to escort Mary to Heaven, where she and John can spend eternity together.  I can't imagine Sam and Dean objecting to that too strongly.  *shrug*

Just a thought.

[trxr4kids]

38 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

See the lack of a happy GIF to use on Thursdays pisses me off. Just another reason why the move to Thursday sucks! Lol Like "Hey Tuesday pig in a poke!" and "Yesterday was Tuesday but today is Tuesday too" and  and "It's Wednesday"  are funny and more or less happy.  Teddy Bear doctors is cute but not as satisfying IMO but is on the top of my list just for lack of choices. "it must be Thursday" is not happy at all but If the season goes to crap I might use it. The Castiel one is not happy either.

I'll keep digging for others.

Ha I thought teddy bear doctors would be your top pick given the choices.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, trxr4kids said:

Ha I thought teddy bear doctors would be your top pick given the choices.

Right now, it is but I'm hoping something else shows up.