Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

Oh look! It's Nopetapus. I haven't seen him in a while. Excellent gif usage.

I have great faith in Rob Bennedict's acting talent.

It's not about me not liking Rob or his work. He's great.

I don't want God to be identified as an actual confirmed character in this show at all. It's a nebulous character now. Let it remain that way.

I would not want it be it Chuck or Dean or Sam or Mary or the Tooth Fairy or one of the clowns from Plucky Pennywhistle's . But Prince? Okay I might accept Prince LOL. But no just don't go there show.

What I can live with is Chuck being God's spokesperson, God's press secretary or something. He can be God's messenger. But I don't want actual!Jesus or actual!God ever to be on screen textually.

That's why I unleashed Nopetopus.

They better not put Donna in the finale, she'll die!

No, they won't kill Donna. They'll kill Jody first :(

[MysteryGuest]

It isn't the religious aspect that bothers me, it's that if God intervenes this time to save the world, then that changes the whole story, IMO.  Up until now, God has been absent and the boys have been basically on their own to fight off whatever evil was running amok.  I really don't want God swooping in to save the day and then disappearing again.  His MO has been that he doesn't make appearances.  He may give messages through others like Chuck and Joshua, but I personally think that bringing God in as an actual character on the show would be a huge mistake.

 

Catrox, we posted at the same time, but I totally agree!

Edited April 10, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

Of course, if Chuck is God, then we might end up with Dean trying to kill Chuck...to fulfill his promise in s5....I wonder if Death would show up again to reap God or would Dean be confirmed as Death because he killed Death and kills God.  That would be ....interesting. LOL

 

Dean Winchester is a man of his word after all.

[rue721]

3) If you don't like them having God on the show because it's too religious: I think that ship has sailed. They've already created a methodology where God is a supernatural deity but it's not about religion.

 

I don't want them to try to write God into the show as an onscreen character because I don't think that they can pull it off.

 

Nowadays, the angels are office drones and "the king of Hell" is like some sleazy lawyer schmuck who lucked into making partner. There's really nothing majestic, awe-inspiring, terrifying, or even intimidating about the "supernatural" creatures coming out of heaven and hell anymore. And it would just be sad to see God diminished into banality in the same way.

 

Not that I think that they'd necessarily have to go in the very traditional direction of portraying God as awesomely majestic in order to pull off bringing Him into the story as a character. I think that it would actually be really cool for the show to go in the direction of portraying God as a sort of grubby, small-minded, flawed sort of creature instead. Like "the man behind the curtain" in the Wizard of Oz. And I think that that would fit in well with the overall world of SPN. The whole world of the show is about grubby, small-minded, flawed creatures trying to be (and sometimes actually being) more than what they are. When they are able to transcend their limits, that's where grace (as in God's grace) comes in anyway, imo. In that context, I think that Chuck would actually be a pretty good choice to be God; he's a cowardly slimeball who might also be much, much more than a cowardly slimeball.

 

My expectation/fear is that the show will just treat bringing God in as a character as a one-off spectacle and not actually go ANYWHERE with the idea -- because the show is generally just not interested in exploring the long-term ramifications of anything or of maximizing the potential of pretty much any character or plotline. I hate to see that kind of wasted potential and shallow, lazy storytelling. It's just so disappointing.

 

I'd like them to come out and state it at this point, myself. It'd be nice to know if the show really has a position on this or not. Right now it feels like they can't decide themselves, so they leave it open to interpretation. Which even if they did come out and say it doesn't mean I can't make up my own interpretation anyway. 

 

Personally, I tend to like mystery and ambiguity, because I think it's just more fun. And I think SPN actually handles mystery and ambiguity extraordinarily well; this show has a good track record of acknowledging it without dwelling on it and without forcing the characters (or viewers) to come to any sort of final judgement on the situation.

 

That's why one of my favorite aspects of SPN is how they handle John. The show throws information or other characters' memories about him out there, and then just lets that information/those memories be ambiguous and just lets John be mysterious. I like that.

 

So personally, I don't have a desire for the show to flat out declare whether Chuck is God or not. Sure, we can always interpret things for ourselves. But I also want to see Sam and Dean interpret what's going on -- and how God (or Chuck) fits into all this. We're not going to get to see them puzzle things out and try to create their own interpretations if they're simply informed what the truth of the matter is, even if us viewers can still speculate among ourselves.

[DittyDotDot]

Personally, I tend to like mystery and ambiguity, because I think it's just more fun. And I think SPN actually handles mystery and ambiguity extraordinarily well; this show has a good track record of acknowledging it without dwelling on it and without forcing the characters (or viewers) to come to any sort of final judgement on the situation.

 

That's why one of my favorite aspects of SPN is how they handle John. The show throws information or other characters' memories about him out there, and then just lets that information/those memories be ambiguous and just lets John be mysterious. I like that.

 

So personally, I don't have a desire for the show to flat out declare whether Chuck is God or not. Sure, we can always interpret things for ourselves. But I also want to see Sam and Dean interpret what's going on -- and how God (or Chuck) fits into all this. We're not going to get to see them puzzle things out and try to create their own interpretations if they're simply informed what the truth of the matter is, even if us viewers can still speculate among ourselves.

 

Oh I agree with you about mystery and such, I just want to know if the show itself has a belief one way or the other. I don't want them to tell me I have to see it their way, but just would like to know if they actually have one or not. Does that make sense?

 

It's like looking at a painting. I prefer to know the artist had an intention, whether I see that intention or not, and wasn't just throwing paint at a canvas and later asking other people what they thought it meant.  

[rue721]

Oh I agree with you about mystery and such, I just want to know if the show itself has a belief one way or the other. I don't want them to tell me I have to see it their way, but just would like to know if they actually have one or not. Does that make sense?

 

It's like looking at a painting. I prefer to know the artist had an intention, whether I see that intention or not, and wasn't just throwing paint at a canvas and later asking other people what they thought it meant.  

 

I hear you, and us viewers definitely could and would all keep creating our own speculation and interpretations, regardless of what the show establishes as canon. That's part of the fun of reading/writing on forums like this!

 

I'm saying that I want to hear the speculation and interpretations of the characters *within the show,* too, and that's what I think would be curtailed if the show came down categorically on one side or another.

 

Not that the show gives Sam and Dean a whole lot of breathing room to speculate and interpret and discuss even now. But at least they COULD :P.

[DittyDotDot]

I hear you, and us viewers definitely could and would all keep creating our own speculation and interpretations, regardless of what the show establishes as canon. That's part of the fun of reading/writing on forums like this!

 

I'm saying that I want to hear the speculation and interpretations of the characters *within the show,* too, and that's what I think would be curtailed if the show came down categorically on one side or another.

 

Not that the show gives Sam and Dean a whole lot of breathing room to speculate and interpret and discuss even now. But at least they COULD :P.

 

It's funny because I don't normally care what TPTB say about these things, I'm gonna see what I see. It's just that lately the show has felt so wishy washy that I'm beginning to think there is no consensus on anything. Plus, they have this huge divided fandom pushing and pulling them in different directions...I guess I'm just saying I'd like to see them grow a backbone a bit.

 

But, like I said, I think it likely they'll keep it ambiguous, myself. God need not be physically present to be present. My own personal head cannon is that God has been present from the start and intervening regularly, we just didn't see him doing it and not sure we need to see him do it this time either. 

[MysteryGuest]

Exactly...God has been around, but on the periphery.  He brought Cas back after Lucifer vaporized him, he lifted Dean and Sam off that doomed plane, etc.  But that's all I really want to see.  If he sends Chuck to assist with putting Amara back where she goes, and locking Lucifer back in the cage, hopefully for good, then that will be great.  But that's as far as I want them to go.  

[catrox14]

 

actually be really cool for the show to go in the direction of portraying God as a sort of grubby, small-minded, flawed sort of creature instead

 

So Metatron?

[catrox14]

 

Billie said something interesting.  She

    SAM: I'm sorry about Death.

    BILLIE: So am I. But people are still dying, so . . . work to do, souls to collect . . . Messages to deliver.

    SAM: What kind of messages?

    BILLIE: It's over.

    SAM: What's over?

    BILLIE: You and Dean . . . Dying and coming back again and again. The old Death thought it was funny. But now there's one hard, fast rule in this universe. What lives . . . dies. So the next time you or your brother bite it, well, you're not going to Heaven . . . Or Hell. One of us -- and, Lord, I hope it's me -- we're gonna make a mistake and toss you out into the Empty. And nothing comes back from that. I know you're dying. I can feel it. You're unclean in the biblical sense. So I'll be seeing you again, Sam . . . Seeing you real soon. Name's Billie, by the way

 

 

So just rewatching Form and Void...and I never realized that Billie sad "the old Death"...which makes me think there is a new Death but it's not her.   So who is Death and when will we see him or her?

Edited April 12, 2016 by catrox14

[NoWillToResist]

I'm thinking maybe she's a long lost Winchester or Campbell relative. Like a cousin or something. That would take her off the table for sexy times.

 

While I agree that any potential love interest is bound to be hated, I don't really want her to be family either. I like the idea of her being a hunter or Woman of Letters though.

 

It isn't the religious aspect that bothers me, it's that if God intervenes this time to save the world, then that changes the whole story, IMO.  Up until now, God has been absent and the boys have been basically on their own to fight off whatever evil was running amok.  I really don't want God swooping in to save the day and then disappearing again.  His MO has been that he doesn't make appearances.  He may give messages through others like Chuck and Joshua, but I personally think that bringing God in as an actual character on the show would be a huge mistake.

 

 

Well, if they do bring God in to deal with the Darkness, I can fanwank it that it's because God knows that no one else can do it. It's one thing to leave humans to their free will and whatnot but if it took God and all his archangels to get rid of the Darkness the last time, humanity doesn't have a fucking hope of defeating her without divine intervention. Consider it God cleaning up a mess that HE made? And then he fucks right back off, leaving humanity with the same game board as before...

[DittyDotDot]

Heh, perhaps God and Amara can just hug it out in the end? ;)

[Demented Daisy]

I tend to think that God has intervened on the Winchesters' behalf since the beginning.  How many times should they have died but didn't?  How many times have they (or their allies) been brought back from the dead?  Others don't get that same consideration.  Sam and Dean are special to God -- whether they (especially Dean) like it or not.

 

It would be cool if we ever found out why....

[mertensia]

I tend to think that God has intervened on the Winchesters' behalf since the beginning. How many times should they have died but didn't? How many times have they (or their allies) been brought back from the dead? Others don't get that same consideration. Sam and Dean are special to God -- whether they (especially Dean) like it or not.

It would be cool if we ever found out why....

Because he knows he doesn't need to clean up his messes; the Winchesters will do it for him.

[Demented Daisy]

Because he knows he doesn't need to clean up his messes; the Winchesters will do it for him.

 

His messes?  Debatable.  I'd say a good portion of the messes the Winchesters "clean up" are of their own making.  But mileage varies, of course.

[catrox14]

I would really prefer to not ever learn what the Winchesters mean to God or whether he intervened on their behalf ( I have a Joshua theory that his word might not be that trustworthy) I highly doubt I will be happy with whatever they say. Just let it stay a mystery.

 

What indicates they have been given special consideration? Compared to whom? Not being snarky but legitimately asking how this would even be known.

[NoWillToResist]

I tend to think that God has intervened on the Winchesters' behalf since the beginning.  How many times should they have died but didn't?  How many times have they (or their allies) been brought back from the dead?  Others don't get that same consideration.  Sam and Dean are special to God -- whether they (especially Dean) like it or not.

 

It would be cool if we ever found out why....

 

 

Their bloodline, I assume. They are, after all, the unique Special-Heaven's-Seal-Of-Freshness vessels for Lucifer and Michael. That sets them apart...

[Aeryn13]

I am not savvy enough to put gifs in here but when/if God comes back, it should be like that scene in Community where Troy goes to get the pizza and when he comes back to the apartment, total and utter chaos has broken out.

 

Lucfer and Amara are bitch-slapping each other, destroying half the world in the process, Rowena randomely throws spells at them, Crowley is under a table and tries to gauge the right moment to be opportunistic and the Winchesters drive the Impala through the mess. Serves you right, God, send someone else to get pizza next time and keep an eye on the apartment.  

[catrox14]

 

Their bloodline, I assume. They are, after all, the unique Special-Heaven's-Seal-Of-Freshness vessels for Lucifer and Michael. That sets them apart...

 

 

Except for Dean who was supposedly the Chosen Vessel until the half brother who was only half Winchester was suitable....

I am not savvy enough to put gifs in here but when/if God comes back, it should be like that scene in Community where Troy goes to get the pizza and when he comes back to the apartment, total and utter chaos has broken out.

 

Lucfer and Amara are bitch-slapping each other, destroying half the world in the process, Rowena randomely throws spells at them, Crowley is under a table and tries to gauge the right moment to be opportunistic and the Winchesters drive the Impala through the mess. Serves you right, God, send someone else to get pizza next time and keep an eye on the apartment.  

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

Their bloodline, I assume. They are, after all, the unique Special-Heaven's-Seal-Of-Freshness vessels for Lucifer and Michael. That sets them apart...

 

 

Ah, but that bloodline -- at the very least, John and Mary -- was engineered specifically to create Sam and Dean.  So we have a chicken-and-egg scenario: were Sam and Dean special because of the bloodline, or was the bloodline special because it created Sam and Dean?

 

 

I would really prefer to not ever learn what the Winchesters mean to God or whether he intervened on their behalf ( I have a Joshua theory that his word might not be that trustworthy) I highly doubt I will be happy with whatever they say. Just let it stay a mystery.

 

What indicates they have been given special consideration? Compared to whom? Not being snarky but legitimately asking how this would even be known.

 

 

To your first point, if not God, then who put them on that plane?  

 

Secondly, how have Sam and Dean been given special consideration?  Compare their lives to every other hunter.  Other hunters save people -- why don't they get to come back from the dead over and over and over again?  

[trxr4kids]

Secondly, how have Sam and Dean been given special consideration?  Compare their lives to every other hunter.  Other hunters save people -- why don't they get to come back from the dead over and over and over again?  

 

From Lazarus Rising :

 

Demon Waitress: So, you get to just stroll out of the pit, huh? Tell me, what makes *you* so special?

Dean Winchester: I like to think it's because of my perky nipples

 

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. ; )

Edited April 12, 2016 by trxr4kids

[Aeryn13]

 

Compare their lives to every other hunter.  Other hunters save people -- why don't they get to come back from the dead over and over and over again?

 

But God didn`t bring them back nor did other supernatural creatures by his degree. So far they have been brought back because they made crappy deals or other supernatural creatures weren`t done with them yet. Other hunters would be free to at least also make crappy deals to cheat death. They might just be too smart and too emotionally healthy for this but I don`t think that means the Winchesters get special consideration. 

 

@ Catrox, thanks for the gif, exactly how I picture the scene

Edited April 12, 2016 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

We have no way of knowing if other hunters got some reprieves occasionally because we don't follow their lives. But surely Bobby or John were spared or helped at some point IF God was helping hunters at all.

 

I can make an argument that Death has done more to help the Winchesters than God. What I would like to know is why was Death willing to help them as much as he did?

[Binns]

We have no way of knowing if other hunters got some reprieves occasionally because we don't follow their lives. But surely Bobby or John were spared or helped at some point IF God was helping hunters at all.

I can make an argument that Death has done more to help the Winchesters than God. What I would like to know is why was Death willing to help them as much as he did?

I concur.

I'm in the camp that doesn't want Chuck to be God...I think that should be left to a different plane; maybe some kind of encounter at the series finale or something like that but I don't know where they would go from there if they brought God in now. I agree that the mythology of the show is different from the "real" world's mythology (depending on your viewpoints) but I still kinda think they put God above all.

[Demented Daisy]

*shrug*  I believe that Sam and Dean are special in the eyes of God.  The entire canon of the show is proof enough for me.  But, as I always say, mileage varies.

 

 

I can make an argument that Death has done more to help the Winchesters than God. 

 

 

And I can make the opposite argument.

[Demented Daisy]

https://twitter.com/jwmanzano/status/719664325154070529

 

Jose Manzano
‏@jwmanzano
Today's #Supernatural cast.
Can you tell which guy is not like the others? @Mark_Sheppard @JensenAckles @RobBenedict

 

 

 

Misha's response:

 

Misha Collins ‏@mishacollins  4h4 hours ago
Misha Collins Retweeted Jose Manzano
It's obvious, Jose. One guy in this group is not North American and has an unintelligible accent...(@Mark_Sheppard

[Demented Daisy]

According to the wiki (who got it from imdb, so take with a huge grain of salt) episode 22 will be titled We Happy Few.  From Henry V:

 

From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

 

Oh, and I keep forgetting.  Subtle clue?  ;-)

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Demented Daisy

[MysteryGuest]

Well, if we're to believe what we've been told by the angels, it was fate that put the Winchesters in the path of the Apocalypse, and they were destined to be the chosen vessels for Michael and Lucifer.  Now we know it didn't exactly go down as planned, but it was supposed to.  So in that regard, I believe that God had a higher plan for them than just your normal hunter, and did show them special consideration once in a while.  But they've been brought back from the dead so many times, by so many people and for so many different reasons, and not all of those were God's doing.  

 

As for Death, according to Billy, he got a kick out of letting Sam and Dean break the reaping rules, but that's not really how it seemed when Death was still around.  He seemed a bit put out that he'd been cheated out of reaping them...especially Sam.

[SueB]

According to the wiki (who got it from imdb, so take with a huge grain of salt) episode 22 will be titled We Happy Few.  From Henry V:

 

Oh, and I keep forgetting.  Subtle clue?  ;-)

 

 

Or NOT so subtle.  Yeah, I think Jared's mug is a clue.  That's Cas' long lost father right there.  Whose abandonment issues are the worst?

- Cas: resurrected 3 times and now thinks it's punishment

- Amara: left for eons alone (yes, her brother vice Dad, but still ... family)

- Dean: who has Daddy issues a mile wide and deep

- Sam: maybe the most well-adjusted of the four

[catrox14]

 

As for Death, according to Billy, he got a kick out of letting Sam and Dean break the reaping rules, but that's not really how it seemed when Death was still around.  He seemed a bit put out that he'd been cheated out of reaping them...especially Sam.

 

She said Death thought it was funny but we don't know why he thought it was funny. 

 

As for him being peeved about not reaping Sam that is one of the things about Brother's Keeper that made me think that was not actual!Death in that scene.

 

None of that made any sense at all.  If Death was referring Sam's comascape, that makes no sense because he gave Sam the option to not go with him! If that wasn't actual!Death in Sam's comascape then what reaping did Death miss out on?  Sam died and deals were made to save him. Death agreed to give Sam his soul back. He hasn't been chasing Sam's soul around for years being rejected. Lord that whole thing was so stupid! 

 

 

And really that's rather petty of Death and he's never been shown to be petty. He's not Zachariah after all. 

 

To me that was just not how Death rolled. So I still wait for the reveal that was not well and truly Death. 

[catrox14]

Man...I'm really not feeling where I think this is going.

[MysteryGuest]

I think Death was referring to when Dean tricked Sam into allowing Gadreel to possess him.  Sam had already agreed to be reaped, and then at the last minute, he skipped out.

 

Death always seemed to have sort of a soft spot for Dean, IMO.  

[catrox14]

I think Death was referring to when Dean tricked Sam into allowing Gadreel to possess him.  Sam had already agreed to be reaped, and then at the last minute, he skipped out.

 

Death always seemed to have sort of a soft spot for Dean, IMO.  

 

When Dean/Gadreel showed up Dean said it wasn't Sam's time and Death said it was up to Sam.  Sam decided to go with Dean. He could have just taken Sam since Sam had already agreed to go but he didn't.   Death gave him the choice in the end.

 

Ugh I hate that episode so much. It makes no sense.

Edited April 13, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

I agree, but I still think felt like Sam backed out at the last minute, and that he owed him one.  

[Demented Daisy]

Or NOT so subtle.  Yeah, I think Jared's mug is a clue.  That's Cas' long lost father right there.  Whose abandonment issues are the worst?

- Cas: resurrected 3 times and now thinks it's punishment

- Amara: left for eons alone (yes, her brother vice Dad, but still ... family)

- Dean: who has Daddy issues a mile wide and deep

- Sam: maybe the most well-adjusted of the four

 

I think their facial expressions are rather apropos, as well.  Cas is overjoyed, Dean is... peeved, shall we say?  And Sam is mildly surprised.

 

ETA  Yes, I used those names on purpose.  I think they're in character in this pic.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Demented Daisy

[MysteryGuest]

Well, the fact that they are hinting so much about Chuck being God makes me think that they won't actually go there.  Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, but if they were going for that big reveal, I wouldn't think think they'd tease about it.  But then what do I know?

[catrox14]

I agree, but I still think felt like Sam backed out at the last minute, and that he owed him one.  

 

 

One of those Deaths is not like the other and neither were like the Death we knew for all those seasons.

 

There wasn't a ghost!Dean in Sam's head and it wasn't Ghost!Bobby in Sam's head. It was Sam's brain trying to not die and IMO he was envisioning a negotiation with coma!Death not actual!Death. That's why when not!Dean showed up to tell him he can be fixed coma!Death gave him the choice.

 

I don't think actual!Death would ever give him that choice and then bitch about the choice later.  He's not a bean counter. He wants the natural order. And Sam being dead then was not necessary for the natural order. If it was Death would have taken him, no matter what Dean wanted

 

Death doesn't do his own reaping unless it's a big event like destroying Chicago or reaping God. He touched that one guy in Chicago because he was there because it was a mass killing coming. IMO he would never make a special trip to reap Sam or Dean. And I really don't think he would ever say "I consider it an honor to reap the likes of Sam Winchester" Holy shit! NOPE! L He might show up and grudgingly feel a little bad about it, but to fawn over any human being. NOPE.

 

My head hurts at the stupid stuff they did to Death.

 

IMO Death is out there somewhere ...somehow. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

hmmmm so they are filming the finale...

 

Graveyard filming....hard to say why they are there..

 

 

from YVR shoots

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEHgjnIivB-/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEHwnplivLj

 

@PUNKD_Images @kamyb22 ya a "fake coffin" was seen too... :'(

Edited April 13, 2016 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

According to the wiki (who got it from imdb, so take with a huge grain of salt) episode 22 will be titled We Happy Few.  From Henry V:

From this day to the ending of the world,

But we in it shall be remembered-

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; ...

 

Although, I think in the Winchester's case with what's likely coming up, Giles and Spike's version is probably more appropriate:

 

Spike (after Buffy's somewhat foreboding speech): Well, not exactly the St. Crispin's Day Speech, was it?

Giles: We few, we happy few...

Spike: We band of buggered.

[catrox14]

Or NOT so subtle.  Yeah, I think Jared's mug is a clue.  That's Cas' long lost father right there.  Whose abandonment issues are the worst?

- Cas: resurrected 3 times and now thinks it's punishment

- Amara: left for eons alone (yes, her brother vice Dad, but still ... family)

- Dean: who has Daddy issues a mile wide and deep

- Sam: maybe the most well-adjusted of the four

 

Yeah, if that cup is World's Greatest Dad meant for God, it better be massive sarcasm like HELL NO he's not the world's greatest Dad...I mean I'd sooner believe that cup was for John Winchester than God at this point LOL

[Demented Daisy]

Well, the fact that they are hinting so much about Chuck being God makes me think that they won't actually go there.  Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, but if they were going for that big reveal, I wouldn't think think they'd tease about it.  But then what do I know?

 

I felt the same way at the end of S9 -- everyone had figured out that Dean would become a demon.  I thought, no way.  Too obvious.  And we all know how that worked out.

[catrox14]

I felt the same way at the end of S9 -- everyone had figured out that Dean would become a demon.  I thought, no way.  Too obvious.  And we all know how that worked out.

 

I really did not think all signs were pointing to demon!Dean. Like it seemed obvious to me they would NEVER go there with either Sam or Dean. Sam drinking demon blood wasn't the same was what they did to Dean and since they already went with Soulless Sam, either one being a demon...just was never something that I thought they would really do.

[catrox14]

OHHHHKAAAY, wait a stinking flinking minute.  I'm seeing scuttle butt on Twitter and tumbler that

 

This is a huge spoiler. So I am actually putting it under spoiler. No joke. This is big.

 

Some Twitter people claim to have seen Mary on set with Cas, Chuck, Dean and Sam. Have no idea if this verified or not. Maybe this is a case of mistaken identity and might be the new chick being confused with Mary

Edited April 13, 2016 by catrox14

[SueB]

I'll want to see visual proof before I respond.

 

ETA:  Looked up the evidence on Tumblr.  More legit than I thought.  It's not mistaken identity.  Unless this person is flat-out lying, this could make sense.  FREAKS ME OUT. Imma gonna cry.  Like NOW.

Edited April 13, 2016 by SueB

[catrox14]

I'll want to see visual proof before I respond.

 

ETA:  Looked up the evidence on Tumblr.  More legit than I thought.  It's not mistaken identity.  Unless this person is flat-out lying, this could make sense.  FREAKS ME OUT. Imma gonna cry.  Like NOW.

 

Yeah, I have some thoughts because I think it means...like something really serious...

I think it might mean a big fat fucking do over (NOPE TO THAT) or Sam or Dean or both really do end up in the Empty..OR Amara knows where Mary is and uses her to fuck with Dean. Like uses Mary to compel Dean to go with her. That would be horrible

[DittyDotDot]

Are we talking Amy Gumenick or Samantha Smith? 

 

If it's Samantha Smith, then yeah, it's gonna be sad. Doesn't mean it's really Mary, but could be a hallucination or something or that Dean ends up in the Empty and she's there as well as this new character. But, Samantha Smith is the mother Dean knew. They usually pull her out to really push Dean's buttons. 

 

If it's Amy Gumenick, lots of possibilities on what's going on there. But that's not usually quite as gut-wrenching in the same way for Dean. Young Mary didn't make him tomato rice soup, cut off the crusts of his bread or sing him Hey Jude.

 

 

ETA: Thinking on this more. The Empty could actually explain somethings. Back in the early seasons they kept saying they didn't know what happened to the spirits after they burned their bones, they just never came back. Perhaps they all go to the Empty (which, yeah, I know, that would mean it's not empty)? It also could explain better why Crowley was able to hijack Bobby's soul. Perhaps once they evade their reapers, all bets are off? Maybe Bobby would've ended up in the Empty too, if Sam and Dean hadn't got him out of Hell? And, perhaps that's why Ash couldn't find Mary in Heaven, she could be in the Empty? John, too, for that matter since he escaped from Hell. Hmmm?

Edited April 13, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

Well, my money is on Samantha Smith IF she's there. But her hair is short now. So wig?

[Demented Daisy]

Do we really need spoiler tags in the spoiler thread?  Who comes to the spoiler thread and then complains when they get spoiled?

 

I'll want to see visual proof before I respond.

 

ETA:  Looked up the evidence on Tumblr.  More legit than I thought.  It's not mistaken identity.  Unless this person is flat-out lying, this could make sense.  FREAKS ME OUT. Imma gonna cry.  Like NOW.

 

A link, please?  

 

Are we talking Amy Gumenick or Samantha Smith? 

 

Exactly.  We really need more info.  I have no interest in scrounging around Twitter or Tumblr.

 

 

Well, my money is on Samantha Smith IF she's there. But her hair is short now. So wig?

 

 

Also why we need a link to the info -- we don't know what you're talking about.  Is it a set report?  Pictures?

[Aeryn13]

From what I gathered, we`re talking about Samantha Smith. 

 

However, someone with the the twitter handle @hellsangel saw them filming at the graveyard and said they didn`t see her there. They did witness a scene where Dean and Cas hugged, though. Presumably, that means Cas is no longer Lustiel at that point.

 

IF Mary in it it, dear god, the cup runneth over. In between giving this new girl Lady Toni Something at least a cameo, having Chuck, Crowley and Rowena there, having a failed? attempt with a spear from Cas as per Misha`s little vid and most likely Sam defeating at least Amara, maybe Amara and Lucifer, if they also brought in Mary, this episode sounds seriously overburdened. Why do at least 15-16 weeks of filler and then throw everything and the kitchen sink at the Finale?

 

As for Dean, at least Jensen is on set.          

[SueB]

From Ciatrox's tip to Tumblr-fu, 'sleeps in the impala' provided a Twitter link:

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexisTwasHere/status/720047058938232832

Hopefully that works.

My guess: they are on location and have a trailer that the cast can use for changing or chilling on location.

Edited April 13, 2016 by SueB