Spoilers With Speculation

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

When/how did we find out Rowena is back? I missed that news!

 

From the article:

Any news on returning characters on this season of Supernatural? — Laura
Well, I’m assuming you heard the Kevin news, but he won’t be the only familiar face. And yet, this next one might not be in the apocalypse world. When talking about season 13’s standalone episodes, co-showrunner Robert Singer reveals that, “You’re going to see the return of Rowena in one of the standalones.” No word yet on what world she’s in or whether it’s even in present day, but just know that you haven’t seen the last of the witch that Lucifer claims he killed.

[nightwing877]

Wondering if Rowena is really alive. Because if Rowena really died, they would of had Ruth brought in to truly make it final? Guess we shall find out. 

I can't believe that it will have been a year since Ruth had actually been on SPN when her episode airs. 

[MysteryGuest]

I hope she's back in more than a flashback.  I really grew to like her character and her relationship with Sam and Dean.  And I still think they're ultimately going to need her when the time comes to rid the world(s) of both Michael and Lucifer.

[gonzosgirrl]

55 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

 

From the article:

Any news on returning characters on this season of Supernatural? — Laura
Well, I’m assuming you heard the Kevin news, but he won’t be the only familiar face. And yet, this next one might not be in the apocalypse world. When talking about season 13’s standalone episodes, co-showrunner Robert Singer reveals that, “You’re going to see the return of Rowena in one of the standalones.” No word yet on what world she’s in or whether it’s even in present day, but just know that you haven’t seen the last of the witch that Lucifer claims he killed.

Thanks!

I was pretty glad the first time they killed Rowena off - and annoyed when she pulled the magic trick out of her leg (where else but on Supernatural?) and resurrected herself. But she did come to grow on me, and I think it was incredibly shitty of them to kill her off in such an offhand way. That doesn't sound like she's back as a regular, but I hope they at least give her a better send off this time. Of course I reserve the right to hate her again if she's the red-headed which who doesn't kills Dean. *g*

[nightwing877]

44 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I hope she's back in more than a flashback.  I really grew to like her character and her relationship with Sam and Dean.  And I still think they're ultimately going to need her when the time comes to rid the world(s) of both Michael and Lucifer.

Me too. I also want her reaction to Crowley's death, if she is alive. I kinda like that she outlives him. The typical direction the show would of done would obviously be Crowley outlives her and or killed her. But it could well be she is still dead or a ghost or flashback's. Hope for the best, since I grew to love her.

[DittyDotDot]

11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I was pretty glad the first time they killed Rowena off - and annoyed when she pulled the magic trick out of her leg (where else but on Supernatural?) and resurrected herself. But she did come to grow on me, and I think it was incredibly shitty of them to kill her off in such an offhand way. That doesn't sound like she's back as a regular, but I hope they at least give her a better send off this time. Of course I reserve the right to hate her again if she's the red-headed which who doesn't kills Dean. *g*

Well considering she does have that spell in her leg, my belief is she is alive because I don't see how burning her would counteract the spell. I'd think you'd have to counteract that spell with another spell, myself. But, leave it to the Devil to throw a hissy fit and get it all wrong, right?

Anyway, about the red headed witch who is said to burn Dean alive...isn't that what Rowena tried to do when she tried to kill Dean back when he had the Mark. It was a spell she used, but wasn't fire involved?

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well considering she does have that spell in her leg, my belief is she is alive because I don't see how burning her would counteract the spell. I'd think you'd have to counteract that spell with another spell, myself. But, leave it to the Devil to throw a hissy fit and get it all wrong, right?

Anyway, about the red headed witch who is said to burn Dean alive...isn't that what Rowena tried to do when she tried to kill Dean back when he had the Mark. It was a spell she used, but wasn't fire involved?

I don't recall there being fire involved , but that doesn't mean there wasn't - I'd have to go back and watch.  I remember her painting sigils all overher body and working up the spell as though it was a tough one. Seems like a lot of fuss to set someone on fire? (Again, only on SPN lol)

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't recall there being fire involved , but that doesn't mean there wasn't - I'd have to go back and watch.  I remember her painting sigils all overher body and working up the spell as though it was a tough one. Seems like a lot of fuss to set someone on fire? (Again, only on SPN lol)

She cut herself up to get Crowley's pity.  No fire.

[Pondlass1]

Rowena (in small doses) grew on me.  She started out a bit like the witch in a Disney film, but fortunately dialed it back after a while.  There's something oddly attractive about a character that's full blast selfish and egotistical.   

I bet they wish they could get Mark back too.  Whenever he posts at twitter there's always a rash of "I miss Crowley" tweets.

[MysteryGuest]

As much as I'd love for Crowley to come back, I don't see that happening.  I'm pretty sure I'll only be able to take Asmodeus in very small doses, since he sort of makes my skin crawl, and not in a good way.  I don't feel the need for his role to ever grow to what Crowley's was on the show.  

As for Rowena, I want her back because I enjoyed her interactions with Sam and Dean.  Even when she was working against them, it was fun to watch.  

Edited November 11, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[DittyDotDot]

40 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't recall there being fire involved , but that doesn't mean there wasn't - I'd have to go back and watch.  I remember her painting sigils all overher body and working up the spell as though it was a tough one. Seems like a lot of fuss to set someone on fire? (Again, only on SPN lol)

Well, not straight up fire, but the spell seemed to burn and was directed at Dean. It's around the 2:10 minute mark:

 

It was the first thing that popped into my mind when Billie said one of his possible deaths was being burned by a red headed witch. But, since they were only possible deaths and all were dependent on choices, it could've/could be been anything.

Edited November 11, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Wayward Son]

8 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I think if Sam died (like, for sure) Dean would be suicidal.  He'd be a reckless and impulsive hunter until something killed him.  John did a real number on him during those formative years.

Dean always finds joy in something.... next week he's all tripping on being a Texas Ranger.

 

3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think he's feeling better because Cass is back, but I don't think he found any joy in this episode until he got the call from Cass.

I think the show is going to present the happiness of Dean next week as being a result of two things. 

 

1. The return of Castiel in and of itself - Castiel is his best friend, so why wouldn’t he be happy about that?

2. We are going to see a turn around in regards to his opinion of Mary’s fate. We’ve seen Dean begin to waver about her fate, for instance he was about to ask Billie instead of just assuming she was 100% dead as he had in earlier episodes. I think the return of Castiel is going to raise his hopes of Mary being alive too and he is going to join Sam on the “Mary is alive” bandwagon. So no longer mourning Mary, but simply working to get her back cheers his mood. 

[DittyDotDot]

25 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

2. We are going to see a turn around in regards to his opinion of Mary’s fate. We’ve seen Dean begin to waver about her fate, for instance he was about to ask Billie instead of just assuming she was 100% dead as he had in earlier episodes. I think the return of Castiel is going to raise his hopes of Mary being alive too and he is going to join Sam on the “Mary is alive” bandwagon. So no longer mourning Mary, but simply working to get her back cheers his mood. 

I agree with you that this is probably what they'll do, but you know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see Dean be hopeful for Mary, but he still advocate they leave the rift closed and that Sam change his opinion on opening the rift.

For one, it's incredibly risky for them to reopen the rift. Risking Lucifer escaping is bad enough, but they have no idea what else can come through it and they have no idea what opening a rift again can do to their own universe--which I'm assuming that's how we end up with Wayward Sisters.

Secondly, I just think the best end to all this grieving is that they learn to accept loss instead of learning, yet again, the rules don't necessarily apply to them. It doesn't have to be them giving up on Mary--they can still hope she'll find her own way back or that something can happen that will bring her back--but I'd rather they be the responsible parties and not break the world this time.

Though, judging by Billie's comments, I'm guessing a couple big dumb Winchesters will be breaking the world despite what I want.

Edited November 12, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

On 11/11/2017 at 7:04 AM, MysteryGuest said:

As much as I'd love for Crowley to come back, I don't see that happening.  I'm pretty sure I'll only be able to take Asmodeus in very small doses, since he sort of makes my skin crawl, and not in a good way.  I don't feel the need for his role to ever grow to what Crowley's was on the show.  

As for Rowena, I want her back because I enjoyed her interactions with Sam and Dean.  Even when she was working against them, it was fun to watch.  

I still think she and Sam had some major frisson. I fully expected them to hook up if he had killed Crowley.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I agree with you that this is probably what they'll do, but you know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see Dean be hopeful for Mary, but he still advocate they leave the rift closed and that Sam change his opinion on opening the rift.

For one, it's incredibly risky for them to reopen the rift. Risking Lucifer escaping is bad enough, but they have no idea what else can come through it and they have no idea what opening a rift again can do to their own universe--which I'm assuming that's how we end up with Wayward Sisters.

Secondly, I just think the best end to all this grieving is that they learn to accept loss instead of learning, yet again, the rules don't necessarily apply to them. It doesn't have to be them giving up on Mary--they can still hope she'll find her own way back or that something can happen that will bring her back--but I'd rather they be the responsible parties and not break the world this time.

Though, judging by Billie's comments, I'm guessing a couple big dumb Winchesters will be breaking the world despite what I want.

I agree with all of this, and not just because I would prefer to never lay eyes on Mary or Lucifer again. Unfortunately, I think there is zero percent chance of it happening. We already know that Cas makes some kind of deal with Lucifer, so unless his return from the Empty empowers him to move between realities, that rift is getting opened again.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Secondly, I just think the best end to all this grieving is that they learn to accept loss instead of learning, yet again, the rules don't necessarily apply to them.

Well, New Death herself just told them or in that case Dean that the rules don`t apply to them. Noone else got the option or even the order to go back to life because they are too cosmically important for some, as of yet (probably never) unspecified purpose. If that was me, I would totally ignore the rules of nature and think they didn`t apply to me. All the other big players on the board also seem to do what they want, so why not they?

And God also bestowed guardianship, not to his angelic host, not to any supernatural entity but to two lowly humans. 

After those message, I would Barry Allen the hell out of that multiverse like it was my personal playground.  

To be clear, I don`t think this is a good message and they SHOULD learn to respect the natural order and all that but in their place, I wouldn`t do it either anymore. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

http://hollywoodnorth.buzz/2017/11/season-13-supernaturals-sam-dean-winchester-visit-sheriff-donna-in-upcoming-episode.html

 

Sam & Dean & Sheriff Donna.  Sam & Dean Winchester (Jared Padalecki & Jensen Ackles) drive into the Oshkosh Sheriff Department’s Impound Facility where Donna Hanscum (Briana Buckmaster) is waiting in a sheepskin coat. Production is underway in New Westminster at 11th and Royal Avenue.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by catrox14

[mertensia]

That's a lot of episodes set in Wisconsin the past few years. Totally a shout-out to me. Totally.

[Diane]

[catrox14]

22 hours ago, Diane said:

From IBelieveintheLittleTreeTopper Spoiler sheet

http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/162826766658/supernatural-season-13-spoiler-sheet

 

 

Quote

 

Episode 13x12

Title:  Various and Sundry Villains

Written by: Steve Yockey

Director:  

Filming Dates: November 17 - December 5 (No filming week of November 20th - US Thanksgiving).

Airdate: February 8

Castiel?  Possibly

Guest stars: Ruth Connell (Rowena)

Other Spoilers/info (newest to oldest):

Honolulu Con to occur during filming

San Francisco Con to occur during filming.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by catrox14

[Diane]

It’s a (rare) good week for Dean Winchester, who has two reasons to be excited during this Thursday’s Supernatural: He gets to revel in his love of Westerns for a case, plus — and this is the really good part — his pal Castiel is back from the dead. (#doublewin)

Cas’ miraculous homecoming is a big morale booster for Dean, who “has just kind of given up, so to speak,” after suffering a multitude of losses, star Jensen Ackles shared during TVLine’s recent visit to the show’s Vancouver set. “So the return of Cas has ignited that fire again. He’s got some hope and motivation to dig a little deeper, and see what we can figure out” in terms of getting mom Mary back from the apocalypse world. Because if Cas can come back from the great beyond, “then maybe there’s a few other people that shouldn’t have been written off,” Ackles added.

While Dean is “a little less questioning” of Cas’ mysterious resurrection — his thinking is more along the lines of, “‘I don’t care how it happened. We got our buddy back,'” Ackles described — his brother is skeptical.

“Sam is really looking to find out what happened and how it happened,” Jared Padalecki previewed. And “intellectual curiosity” isn’t the only thing driving the younger Winchester. “Sam still wants Mom back, and heck, if we can start calling out who we want back, I’m sure there are a lot of people Sam wouldn’t mind to bring back.”

“So I think Dean is so relieved to have that win he’s looking for, and to have his buddy back, to have our buddy back,” Padalecki continued. “Sam’s like, ‘OK, it isgreat, I agree. But you know” — to quote Dean — “‘the other shoe is probably going to drop.'”

Then there’s the other big Cas moment in this Thursday’s installment (The CW, 8/7c): For Jack, getting to meet his chosen father “means everything to him,” Alexander Calvert shared. “It’s like meeting the only other alien. You’re an alien on the Earth, and you thought you were alone, but then suddenly, there’s someone who’s actually like you. I feel like they have that unique bond.”

Amid all the emotional reunions, there’s also plenty of humor and lightness when an excited Dean gets to pretend to be a Texas Ranger for this week’s case. “I think there’s a nice slo-mo montage of some snakeskin boots and a hat and the whole bit,” Ackles teased. “It’s fun to see Dean geek out,” Padalecki added. “As Sam, it’s fun to see Dean as childish.”

Edited November 16, 2017 by Diane

[gonzosgirrl]

I wish I trusted Perez to laugh with Dean instead of at him. (I don't)

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, Diane said:

d. “As Sam, it’s fun to see Dean as childish.”

I'm hoping Jared meant that Sam is happy that Dean gets to be a bit childlike in his love of cowboy lore vs Sam sees Dean as childish and mocks him for it.  Maybe Sam will have some of his own character growth that he won't mock Dean's childlike glee for cowboy fun.

I think it's odd that Alexander thinks meeting Castiel is like meeting another alien like him. I mean he already knows angels are on Earth since he's half archangel right. He knows he's half archangel, doesn't he?

[Diane]

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I actually watched the video of that set interview:

Jensen was very excited about this episode.  I think he geeked out a bit himself at the cowboy stuff. 

But at this:

38 minutes ago, Diane said:

“Sam still wants Mom back, and heck, if we can start calling out who we want back, I’m sure there are a lot of people Sam wouldn’t mind to bring back.”

I just thought: Oh, no - PLEASE not Ruby!  Lol!  I know Jared would like his wife back on set, but I don't want the character back. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I wish I trusted Perez to laugh with Dean instead of at him. (I don't)

I`m quite iffy on whatever will constitute as "comic relief" in this episode with Dean and the Western theme. Hopefully, there will be some badass gun action.

Quote

 think it's odd that Alexander thinks meeting Castiel is like meeting another alien like him. I mean he already knows angels are on Earth since he's half archangel right. He knows he's half archangel, doesn't he?

He probably means in terms of personal connection. The angels he has met so far have been hostile towards him and the demons manipulative. Cas is someone Jack knows from his good old days in the womb when he appeared to be more knowledgeable about stuff.   

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I just thought: Oh, no - PLEASE not Ruby!  Lol!  I know Jared would like his wife back on set, but I don't want the character back. 

If Sam wants Ruby back then I think it's time for Sam to finally be declared a villain.  I mean seriously, Sam wanting any version of Ruby back, even if it's so he could get vengeance, is a TERRIBLE idea. 

Sam should want Jessica back if anyone. It would be poetic symmetry for Jessica to return for Sam. I'm sure he either still loves her on some level or just wants to be free of the guilt of her death because of him. Like his association with her is why she's dead, in his mind. Not his fault per se but I would think it still eats at him.

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m quite iffy on whatever will constitute as "comic relief" in this episode with Dean and the Western theme. Hopefully, there will be some badass gun action.

He probably means in terms of personal connection. The angels he has met so far have been hostile towards him and the demons manipulative. Cas is someone Jack knows from his good old days in the womb when he appeared to be more knowledgeable about stuff.   

Depending on how much of a deal is made of the fact Cas is supposedly the first being to come back from the empty, he could also be referring to the fact they’re both outsiders even amongst their own kind. Jack is unusual for a nephilim as he is much more powerful than one due to being born of an archangel rather than an angel and Cas is unusual because he’s the only one to come back from an angel blade stabbing.

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If Sam wants Ruby back then I think it's time for Sam to finally be declared a villain.  I mean seriously, Sam wanting any version of Ruby back, even if it's so he could get vengeance, is a TERRIBLE idea. 

Sam should want Jessica back if anyone. It would be poetic symmetry for Jessica to return for Sam. I'm sure he either still loves her on some level or just wants to be free of the guilt of her death because of him. Like his association with her is why she's dead, in his mind. Not his fault per se but I would think it still eats at him.

I agree! It would make sense for JARED to want Ruby/Genevieve back, but definitely not Sam. 

I’d say no thank you to a Jessica revival. I’d hate to see some sort of Samelia part II and  her return brings back old feelings for Sam and he’s torn between a life with her and hunting with Dean until he ultimately picks Dean. The only way I’d be remotely ok with her return is if S14 is indeed the shows last and a life with Jess is a part of Sam’s happy ending LOL 

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Depending on how much of a deal is made of the fact Cas is supposedly the first being to come back from the empty, he could also be referring to the fact they’re both outsiders even amongst their own kind. Jack is unusual for a nephilim as he is much more powerful than one due to being born of an archangel rather than an angel and Cas is unusual because he’s the only one to come back from an angel blade stabbing.

I'm trying to recollect but I don't remember any other entities talk about the Empty besides Billie, Sam and Dean?

I thought it was weird that when Cas woke up he didn't know where he was nor that all the angels and demons who died were there.  Cas seemed surprised to learn that's where he was and what it was.

Quote

Cosmic Entity: Before God and Amara, creation, destruction, Heaven, Hell, your precious little Earth, what was there?
Castiel: Nothing.
Cosmic Entity: Yes. That's right. Nothing. Nothing but empty and you are soaking in it. Angels and demons, you all come here when you die (...) sleeping an endless, peaceful sleep.

I'm thinking that for something to be a place where you never come back from then the Empty Keeper doesn't want you to remember it or talk about it's existence. Maybe only reapers know about it or maybe only Billie knew if my theory that she was Death's apprentice are at all true.  I'm wondering if Billie once she became Death, allowed the Empty Keeper to let Cas come back because she needed Dean to get motivated for another battle.

Perhaps there is a memory wipe that doesn't allow Cas to talk about the Empty, so he can't actually explain where he's been, who he saw in the Empty nor how he got back.

Edited November 16, 2017 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I’d say no thank you to a Jessica revival. I’d hate to see some sort of Samelia part II and  her return brings back old feelings for Sam and he’s torn between a life with her and hunting with Dean until he ultimately picks Dean. The only way I’d be remotely ok with her return is if S14 is indeed the shows last and a life with Jess is a part of Sam’s happy ending LOL 

Since the actress is a regular over on the Orville and that has gotten a Season 2 pick-up, I think we`re in the clear.  :)

I think Jared was talking about the likes of Bobby and John, possibly Jo and Ellen. Or Eileen.   

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I’d say no thank you to a Jessica revival. I’d hate to see some sort of Samelia part II and  her return brings back old feelings for Sam and he’s torn between a life with her and hunting with Dean until he ultimately picks Dean. The only way I’d be remotely ok with her return is if S14 is indeed the shows last and a life with Jess is a part of Sam’s happy ending LOL 

I don't mean as part of him being with her again per se.  I think it would be really interesting for Sam to face her again. He lied to her about his life their entire relationship and she was truly innocent in the whole thing. I've always thought that haunted Sam and it should IMO come back to her death because that's why he joined Dean again in the first place.  Her murder is what compelled him to seek vengeance. She may have still been killed but had she known about Sam's life she could have been aware of their life and known better why Sam left the family.

[Diane]

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I'm hoping Jared meant that Sam is happy that Dean gets to be a bit childlike in his love of cowboy lore vs Sam sees Dean as childish and mocks him for it.  Maybe Sam will have some of his own character growth that he won't mock Dean's childlike glee for cowboy fun.

 

To the bitter spoilers thread I go...

[Jonesy]

I absolutely LOVE that Calvert talks about how strong his connection/relationship is to Cas.  Verifies what Misha said all the time about this.  Really looking forward to this.  With Dean I like when we get lighter fun Dean and I am fine with Perez with him for the most part.  Dean will geek out about the West again but don't worry he'll be a badass when needed.  And I think Jared was also saying Sam enjoyed Dean having his enthusiasm back--Don't think he was saying Sam is mocking Dean at all.

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

 

 

Quote

Anything on Jack and Castiel’s reunion on Supernatural? — Rachel
Castiel will very quickly find himself taking on a parental role with Jack, even as soon as this week’s episode, a.k.a the first time they meet. “A big part of this episode is about trying to tell Jack that everybody screws up, don’t give on yourself,” Misha Collins says. “The truth is, Cas is the worst person to be giving that speech because he never forgives himself and is always lamenting his poor choices in the past.” And yes, Castiel will have to face his choices at some point. As Collins puts it, “I don’t think the journey of self-healing as really begun for Cas, but he’s also not as morose as we’ve found him previously.”

[Casseiopeia]

 

Is it just me or does this seem kind of anticlimactic? 

[Aeryn13]

I think it`s because we`ve had so many deaths, resurrections and reunions on this show, they have gotten to be lackluster events. 

An odd choice for a sneak peak, I figured they were gonna pick some goofball moment or exposition from the ep as usual. I highly doubt the entire rest of the episode is gonna be too insanely spoilerish to do so.  

[catrox14]

I LOVE IT. Dean touched his head after he hugged him. You can tell by the way he moved his other arm. A"I do. Welcome home." And he went in for the hug.

Also, look how Dean's face just softens. He looks so relieved and confused. Aww. man. I love it.

So Cas does know he was in the Empty. So much for that theory LOLOL

(Also, STILL SIDE-EYING if he's really Cas) hmmm

5 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

Is it just me or does this seem kind of anticlimactic? 

[catrox14]

Cas: "How long was I gone?"

Dean: "Too damn long"

I'm fine. This is fine. I'm not crying. You're crying 

[Casseiopeia]

29 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think it`s because we`ve had so many deaths, resurrections and reunions on this show, they have gotten to be lackluster events. 

An odd choice for a sneak peak, I figured they were gonna pick some goofball moment or exposition from the ep as usual. I highly doubt the entire rest of the episode is gonna be too insanely spoilerish to do so.  

I agree I was surprised this was the sneak peek as well.  This was supposed to be an epic moment of epic hugs.  Maybe I have become desensitized to deaths on SPN.

[Res]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm hoping Jared meant that Sam is happy that Dean gets to be a bit childlike in his love of cowboy lore vs Sam sees Dean as childish and mocks him for it.  Maybe Sam will have some of his own character growth that he won't mock Dean's childlike glee for cowboy fun.

I think it's odd that Alexander thinks meeting Castiel is like meeting another alien like him. I mean he already knows angels are on Earth since he's half archangel right. He knows he's half archangel, doesn't he?

I know Jared is probably meaning the former but IMO we'll be shown quite a bit of the latter, as the commercials have already shown where Cas is telling Jack how OTT Dean is about this stuff. I would really like to be surprised and see them supportive, not mocking, but I'll believe it when I see it.

As for the second part, while I'm glad Cas is back, and I AM, still totally not caring about Spawn.

[Wayward Son]

Quote

“The Bad Place”
JACK AND KAIA DISRUPT THE WORLD – Jack (Alexander Calvert), desperate to prove to Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) that he is good and that he can control his powers, enlists the help of a dreamcatcher named Kaia (guest star Yadira Guevara-Prip) to help him find Mary Winchester (guest star Samantha Smith) and save her from the alternate universe. However, when plans go awry, the Winchester brothers are the ones who need saving. Phil Sgriccia directed the episode written by Robert Berens (#1309). Original airdate 12/7/2017.

[goldy]

SUPERNATURAL Photos: The Search for Jack is On

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2017/11/17/supernatural-photos-the-search-for-jack-is-on/?slide=2

[Aeryn13]

Quote

“The Bad Place”
JACK AND KAIA DISRUPT THE WORLD – Jack (Alexander Calvert), desperate to prove to Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) that he is good and that he can control his powers, enlists the help of a dreamcatcher named Kaia (guest star Yadira Guevara-Prip) to help him find Mary Winchester (guest star Samantha Smith) and save her from the alternate universe. However, when plans go awry, the Winchester brothers are the ones who need saving. Phil Sgriccia directed the episode written by Robert Berens (#1309). Original airdate 12/7/2017.

Sounds like they found a way around the Winchesters knocking over the house of cards - Jack decides to do it on his own. He probably does open up a rift again and through comes Michael. Or he creates a Hellmouth for the Wayward Sisters spin-off to be set there.

I`m iffy about Berens. Have not been impressed with his writing since Season 12. And even "Patience" was only so-so.

Speaking of, the next episode will be a Bucklemming one. Well, at least they picked the right one to throw away on Thanksgiving. 

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sounds like they found a way around the Winchesters knocking over the house of cards - Jack decides to do it on his own. He probably does open up a rift again and through comes Michael. Or he creates a Hellmouth for the Wayward Sisters spin-off to be set there.

I`m iffy about Berens. Have not been impressed with his writing since Season 12. And even "Patience" was only so-so.

Speaking of, the next episode will be a Bucklemming one. Well, at least they picked the right one to throw away on Thanksgiving. 

And I'm wondering who they are going to kill LOL

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sounds like they found a way around the Winchesters knocking over the house of cards - Jack decides to do it on his own. He probably does open up a rift again and through comes Michael. Or he creates a Hellmouth for the Wayward Sisters spin-off to be set there.

Not that surprising really. Like I’ve said before Dabb doesn’t believe in letting Sam and Dean do dubious things. He leaves that to Castiel, Mary and now Jack so the brothers can come out squeaky clean. 

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Not that surprising really. Like I’ve said before Dabb doesn’t believe in letting Sam and Dean do dubious things. He leaves that to Castiel, Mary and now Jack so the brothers can come out squeaky clean. 

Except that's not on Jack either. If Lucifer never rapes Kelly and President Jeff to create Jack, the rift doesn't happen.  Lucifer's actions and choices were his own, he used other people to do it and now Jack is trying to make it right for Sam and Dean.

I'm not putting the blame on Jack, Cas, Sam or Dean this time.

This is all on Lucifer.

Edited November 17, 2017 by catrox14

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Except that's not on Jack either. This is all on Lucifer. If he never raped Kelly and President Jeff to create Jack, the rift doesn't happen.  Lucifer's actions and choices were his own so I'm not putting the blame on Jack, Cas, Sam or Dean this time.

This is all on Lucifer.

I wouldn’t blame Jack for the rift opening the first time as that was apparently some sort of instinctual thing, but if he purposely opens the portal a second time (which the synopsis suggests he and Kaia will) then the blame for the fallout of that opening lies with Kaia and Jack. They made the decision to reopen it no one else. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DittyDotDot]

20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sounds like they found a way around the Winchesters knocking over the house of cards - Jack decides to do it on his own. He probably does open up a rift again and through comes Michael. Or he creates a Hellmouth for the Wayward Sisters spin-off to be set there.

It's funny because that's what I basically speculated back when Wayward Sisters was first announced--Jack would run off fairly early to to find himself and end up creating an even bigger problem in an attempt to reopen the rift--although I figured he would be reopening the rift in order to find his daddy instead of trying to help Sam and Dean get their mother back. I guess neither reason seems very compelling to me.