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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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SueB

SueB

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I think Sam relating to Jack was a given.   And Jared has not had very many guests where he has a unique bond with.  This certainly seems like one.  I can see why he's thrilled.  

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Which doesn't sound ominous at all! LOL That could be part of the tagline for this show

It’s certainly the tag line for Castiel under Dabb. The gormless idiot who has only the best intentions, but still manages to screw things up for everyone every time. Oh joy! 

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catrox14

catrox14

30 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

It’s certainly the tag line for Castiel under Dabb. The gormless idiot who has only the best intentions, but still manages to screw things up for everyone every time. Oh joy! 

It certainly applies to every Winchester as well, repeatedly so Cas is not alone in being plagued by Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. Maybe Cas is really a Winchester :)

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It certainly applies to every Winchester as well, repeatedly so Cas is not alone in being plagued by Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. Maybe Cas is really a Winchester :)

I don’t really think it applies to them under Dabb, but I’d certainly agree it has applied to Sam and Dean under former show runners. I think the titles all Cas’ under Dabb’s leadership but we can agree to disagree :)

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catrox14

catrox14

23 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I don’t really think it applies to them under Dabb, but I’d certainly agree it has applied to Sam and Dean under former show runners. I think the titles all Cas’ under Dabb’s leadership but we can agree to disagree :)

Well that really is a matter of what you think is best intentions gone awry and I'll take it to the All episodes thread for further discussion.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So this is a new thing. CW is sending screeners out for their shows now. H/T to the Arrow forum for this info. I'm going to start following this person.

 

 

I wondered about this when Clarissa (The TVaddict) tweeted about 13x02 earlier today. Interesting. I wonder why the change?

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

Now this is a surprise - to me anyway.

Quote

SUPERNATURAL 13.05 “Advanced Thanatology”: While working on a case involving the ghost of a demented doctor, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) get assistance from an unexpected source – Billie (guest star Lisa Berry). Castiel (Misha Collins) finds his way back to the Winchesters. John Showalter directed the episode written by Steve Yockey (#1305).

 

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2017/10/18/the-cw-teasers-a-reaper-returns-on-supernatural-girls-night-out-on-the-flash-and-more/

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catrox14

catrox14

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

First Cas, now Billie  - I guess we can't trust that the white light burst  = dead angel anymore. LOL!Canon

The difference here is that the boys burned Cas' body...so he's gonna have to have divine intervention.

If only Billie and Cas met in the Empty for irony.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
12 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Billie? What? How can that be? She's dead???? What the what?

Well, that would make her "unexpected", I would think.

Hmm? Not sure I like where this is going, but if it sets the stage for Death to make an appearance, I'm cool with it. Love me some Death! ;)

8 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

And Billie is helping them why? It can only be Dean's luck that that happens.

Luck? Yeah, that's a hard word to use for this show. Doesn't hat just means it hasn't bit them in the ass yet? ;)

17 hours ago, SueB said:

I think Sam relating to Jack was a given.   And Jared has not had very many guests where he has a unique bond with.  This certainly seems like one.  I can see why he's thrilled.  

I agree.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/19/spoiler-room-originals-ouat-supernatural/

Quote

Any news on returning characters on this season of Supernatural? — Laura
Well, I’m assuming you heard the Kevin news, but he won’t be the only familiar face. And yet, this next one might not be in the apocalypse world. When talking about season 13’s standalone episodes, co-showrunner Robert Singer reveals that, “You’re going to see the return of Rowena in one of the standalones.” No word yet on what world she’s in or whether it’s even in present day, but just know that you haven’t seen the last of the witch that Lucifer claims he killed.

Edited by catrox14
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)
3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Luck? Yeah, that's a hard word to use for this show. Doesn't hat just means it hasn't bit them in the ass yet? ;)

Usually, yes, but Billie is the gift that just keeps on giving for reasons that can only be good luck, in my opinion...

Dean kills Death, so Billie is pissed, and threatens Sam with the empty. But when Dean does come across her, despite her supposedly being pissed, she gives him free passage to help Sam stuck with Lucifer. No strings attached. Then later that season, she finds out Dean needs souls for a soul bomb.... she gives them a whole bunch of souls, no strings attached. Next season, Dean makes a deal with her to free them from solitary, but this time she decides she's finally going to get something from it, but still gets nothing out of the deal, because Castiel kills her so she's the one who ends up dead - and somehow that doesn't void the deal Dean and Sam had made with her either... yet somehow this does not piss her off enough that she helps Sam and Dean on a case apparently?

If Dean isn't lucky here, then Billie must be a glutton for punishment. I'll laugh if in helping them, somehow Billie ends up dead again. Poor gal doesn't learn. ; )

Edited by AwesomO4000
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catrox14

catrox14

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Dean kills Death, so Billie is pissed, and threatens Sam with the empty.

To be fair, she threatened them both with the Empty.  If my past spec is at all correct, then Billie was always Death in a new meatsuit and she gave Dean and by extension Sam, passes because Death likes Dean and maybe trying to teach him a lesson or twenty.

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Diane

Diane

(edited)

http://tvline.com/2017/10/19/supernatural-spoilers-season-13-episode-2-lucifer-mary-michael/

What’s Satan’s worst nightmare? For Supernatural‘s Lucifer, it’s being separated from his son in an apocalyptic alternate dimension, while his foes Dean and Sam play parents to his offspring, who has chosen the angelic Castiel as his father, to pour salt into the wound.

“This is horrible. The stepparents are winning, and it’s not fun,” star Mark Pellegrino tells TVLine with a laugh. “I think Lucifer is going to try to remedy this situation as soon as possible.”

But couldn’t you also say that the Winchesters are keeping his child safe while he’s MIA? “This is true,” Pellegrino concedes. “These are all of the paradoxes that Lucifer is faced with in the coming episodes.”

And that’s not all that the King of Hell is dealing with in this Thursday’s installment (The CW, 8/7c), which finds him and “strange bedfellow” Mary Winchester coming up against a new iteration of archangel Michael, Pellegrino previews below.

TVLINE | It looks like you’re always having so much fun in this role. What’s the craziest thing that you’ve gotten to do on the show that you just took such pleasure in?
[Laughs] Wow. If I say I took pleasure in the crazy thing, it might indict my character as a human being. [Laughs] There was a scene, [which] might have been in Season 5. This is going to sound so terrible. I don’t want this to impugn me as a person, but I just thought it was funny in a terrible way. Lucifer has possessed all the males in the town with demons, and he has taken all the women and children and sacrificed them to Death, because that’s what Death needed to rise and start the apocalypse. He’s digging the mass grave when Sam and Dean come upon him, and his reaction to this mini holocaust is so, “Yeah, sorry, guys, I had to sort of do this. It’s terrible, it’s awful, but you know, s—t happens.” That was one of the more ironic scenes. The fandom just understood the tongue-in-cheekness of it, and [it] actually made them like Lucifer more than hate him. There’s a billion scenes like that. Playing with Crowley was probably one of my favorite series of episodes.

TVLINE | You’re spending a lot more time with Mary this season. What are you discovering about that dynamic?
[Laughs] That we’re like an old married couple. We disagree a lot, and we fight. But I think we’re bonded by a basic similarity in personality and stubbornness. That also, oddly, makes Lucifer very vulnerable. To see Lucifer bickering with somebody like that, I find very endearing, and I hope the fans do, as well.

TVLINE | You mentioned Lucifer feeling vulnerable. Does the fact that Jack chose Castiel as his father hurt his feelings? Can Lucifer’s feelings be hurt?
I think it’s a myth that somebody like Lucifer can’t have hurt feelings. The whole mythology of Lucifer and his desire for revenge comes from deeply hurt feelings and dealing with deeply hurt feelings in a rather inappropriate way. So, for sure, he is bothered by the Winchesters and Castiel taking over his parenting responsibilities.

TVLINE | Lucifer’s son is actually more powerful than Lucifer, the producers said recently. I can’t decide if that’s something Lucifer is going to take pride in, or if that’s going to displease him.
It depends on where that power is directed. For now, Lucifer admires his son’s power from afar, and he hears it as legend. He admires it and loves it and wants to see it, just like any father would take pride in a talent of their son. So far, those talents haven’t been turned against him yet, but we don’t know where that’s going to go.

TVLINE | In this week’s episode, we’re getting a lot of Lucifer and Mary in the apocalypse world. How is life treating Lucifer over there?
It sort of sucks, not just because Mary Winchester doesn’t like me, and we’re bickering all the time, but because the narrative of that world has no Lucifer in it. It’s like everywhere Lucifer turns, his existence is denied. [Laughs] That’s really troubling to somebody who takes pride in his stature as a celestial being: to be told, “Nah, Lucifer doesn’t exist. He’s dead, and he was killed. That’s the narrative here. You’re sort of weaker than your brother.” So he has to not only find a way out of this terrible place with a person who doesn’t like him, but the narrative doesn’t even include him anymore.

TVLINE | The narrative, however, does include Michael, who has a very long and complicated history with Lucifer in our world. How is that relationship and that past different in the alternate world?
It’s completely fresh and new. The contention carries over, but Michael as an entity is a very different being, with a very different agenda, than the Michael that I knew. Whatever Michael’s faults [were] from my perspective — that he didn’t take my side, that he took my father’s side — as angering as that is, [they] could be excusable for his virtues. I’m not sure that the Michael we see in the new world holds those virtues of, say, service or loyalty. He has his own standard. So that puts Lucifer and Michael in contention for very different reasons.

Edited by Diane
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

To be fair, she threatened them both with the Empty.

Oh I know, but she was talking to Sam personally at the moment - since he was infected and in imminent danger - and discussed it directly with him (so I was more talking a direct threat. She threatened Dean through Sam at that point). I don't remember if when Dean finally met her for passage to hell's perimeter, if she mentioned / threatened with the Empty or not(?) I thought she was actually fairly cordial considering Dean was the guy who killed Death.

The threat was direct during the get out of solitary deal, for sure, though - agreed there.

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If my past spec is at all correct, then Billie was always Death in a new meatsuit and she gave Dean and by extension Sam, passes because Death likes Dean and maybe trying to teach him a lesson or twenty.

Interesting speculation, but poor Death in that case. Dean (And Sam even more so for that matter!) generally learns the hard way. Teaching them a lesson is not going to be easy. ; )

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
13 minutes ago, Diane said:

http://tvline.com/2017/10/19/supernatural-spoilers-season-13-episode-2-lucifer-mary-michael/

What’s Satan’s worst nightmare? For Supernatural‘s Lucifer, it’s being separated from his son in an apocalyptic alternate dimension, while his foes Dean and Sam play parents to his offspring, who has chosen the angelic Castiel as his father, to pour salt into the wound.

“This is horrible. The stepparents are winning, and it’s not fun,” star Mark Pellegrino tells TVLine with a laugh. “I think Lucifer is going to try to remedy this situation as soon as possible.”

But couldn’t you also say that the Winchesters are keeping his child safe while he’s MIA? “This is true,” Pellegrino concedes. “These are all of the paradoxes that Lucifer is faced with in the coming episodes.”

And that’s not all that the King of Hell is dealing with in this Thursday’s installment (The CW, 8/7c), which finds him and “strange bedfellow” Mary Winchester coming up against a new iteration of archangel Michael, Pellegrino previews below.

TVLINE | It looks like you’re always having so much fun in this role. What’s the craziest thing that you’ve gotten to do on the show that you just took such pleasure in?
[Laughs] Wow. If I say I took pleasure in the crazy thing, it might indict my character as a human being. [Laughs] There was a scene, [which] might have been in Season 5. This is going to sound so terrible. I don’t want this to impugn me as a person, but I just thought it was funny in a terrible way. Lucifer has possessed all the males in the town with demons, and he has taken all the women and children and sacrificed them to Death, because that’s what Death needed to rise and start the apocalypse. He’s digging the mass grave when Sam and Dean come upon him, and his reaction to this mini holocaust is so, “Yeah, sorry, guys, I had to sort of do this. It’s terrible, it’s awful, but you know, s—t happens.” That was one of the more ironic scenes. The fandom just understood the tongue-in-cheekness of it, and [it] actually made them like Lucifer more than hate him. There’s a billion scenes like that. Playing with Crowley was probably one of my favorite series of episodes.

TVLINE | You’re spending a lot more time with Mary this season. What are you discovering about that dynamic?
[Laughs] That we’re like an old married couple. We disagree a lot, and we fight. But I think we’re bonded by a basic similarity in personality and stubbornness. That also, oddly, makes Lucifer very vulnerable. To see Lucifer bickering with somebody like that, I find very endearing, and I hope the fans do, as well.

TVLINE | You mentioned Lucifer feeling vulnerable. Does the fact that Jack chose Castiel as his father hurt his feelings? Can Lucifer’s feelings be hurt?
I think it’s a myth that somebody like Lucifer can’t have hurt feelings. The whole mythology of Lucifer and his desire for revenge comes from deeply hurt feelings and dealing with deeply hurt feelings in a rather inappropriate way. So, for sure, he is bothered by the Winchesters and Castiel taking over his parenting responsibilities.

TVLINE | Lucifer’s son is actually more powerful than Lucifer, the producers said recently. I can’t decide if that’s something Lucifer is going to take pride in, or if that’s going to displease him.
It depends on where that power is directed. For now, Lucifer admires his son’s power from afar, and he hears it as legend. He admires it and loves it and wants to see it, just like any father would take pride in a talent of their son. So far, those talents haven’t been turned against him yet, but we don’t know where that’s going to go.

TVLINE | In this week’s episode, we’re getting a lot of Lucifer and Mary in the apocalypse world. How is life treating Lucifer over there?
It sort of sucks, not just because Mary Winchester doesn’t like me, and we’re bickering all the time, but because the narrative of that world has no Lucifer in it. It’s like everywhere Lucifer turns, his existence is denied. [Laughs] That’s really troubling to somebody who takes pride in his stature as a celestial being: to be told, “Nah, Lucifer doesn’t exist. He’s dead, and he was killed. That’s the narrative here. You’re sort of weaker than your brother.” So he has to not only find a way out of this terrible place with a person who doesn’t like him, but the narrative doesn’t even include him anymore.

TVLINE | The narrative, however, does include Michael, who has a very long and complicated history with Lucifer in our world. How is that relationship and that past different in the alternate world?
It’s completely fresh and new. The contention carries over, but Michael as an entity is a very different being, with a very different agenda, than the Michael that I knew. Whatever Michael’s faults [were] from my perspective — that he didn’t take my side, that he took my father’s side — as angering as that is, [they] could be excusable for his virtues. I’m not sure that the Michael we see in the new world holds those virtues of, say, service or loyalty. He has his own standard. So that puts Lucifer and Michael in contention for very different reasons.

There is literally nothing I like about this interview, show wise. And in fact it makes me a) dislike Mark P just a little and b) wonder where they get ideas like this from:

Lucifer has possessed all the males in the town with demons, and he has taken all the women and children and sacrificed them to Death, because that’s what Death needed to rise and start the apocalypse. He’s digging the mass grave when Sam and Dean come upon him, and his reaction to this mini holocaust is so, “Yeah, sorry, guys, I had to sort of do this. It’s terrible, it’s awful, but you know, s—t happens.” That was one of the more ironic scenes. The fandom just understood the tongue-in-cheekness of it, and [it] actually made them like Lucifer more than hate him.

And this?

Playing with Crowley was probably one of my favorite series of episodes.

Yeah, I bet it was.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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catrox14

catrox14

14 minutes ago, Diane said:

. I don’t want this to impugn me as a person, but I just thought it was funny in a terrible way. L

That's okay, Mark. I already dislike you. This can't make it any worse.

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

he fandom just understood the tongue-in-cheekness of it, and [it] actually made them like Lucifer more than hate him.

And this?

Playing with Crowley was probably one of my favorite series of episodes.

Mark, that wasn't tongue-in-cheek dude. Lucifer was an asshole and smarmy and yes at times it was very dark humor so that made it amusing and made Lucifer interesting in a love to hate him way but to say Lucifer was being tongue-in-cheek implies Lucifer didn't mean anything he said and what?? How? Whatever, dude.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
Quote

And oh, look, another Dean-eats-like-a-slob joke. Yay.

Well, he didn`t acually do it here, it was just a dig against him. More to ff.  :)

I don`t understand why Jack tries to mimic Dean here when Sam was the one who he more or less sang Kumbayah with last episode. Dean seems as weirded out by this as I am. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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catrox14

catrox14

I am really not okay with this business of Sam saying Lucifer is "complicated".  Like what? Where are they going with this? Lucifer is not complicated. He's the Devil, he's murdered MILLIONS of humans, he hates humanity, he raped a woman to impregnate her, he turned humans into demons, he's possessed Sam and tormented him for years.  Show, there is no equivalency here between complicated humans doing stupid things and Lucifer. JUST STOP IT.

OHHH It's a Buck Leming episode. Now I get it.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Jack obviously has no real understanding of things so even if they said "Lucifer is evil", he would probably ask next what "evil" means. He seems like such a blank slate, I don`t believe you have to sugarcoat it for him. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

34 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Oh I know, but she was talking to Sam personally at the moment - since he was infected and in imminent danger - and discussed it directly with him (so I was more talking a direct threat. She threatened Dean through Sam at that point). I don't remember if when Dean finally met her for passage to hell's perimeter, if she mentioned / threatened with the Empty or not(?) I thought she was actually fairly cordial considering Dean was the guy who killed Death.

The threat was direct during the get out of solitary deal, for sure, though - agreed there.

Interesting speculation, but poor Death in that case. Dean (And Sam even more so for that matter!) generally learns the hard way. Teaching them a lesson is not going to be easy. ; )

Didn't Billie threaten Dean personally in ep 17.  Billie said no she wasn't going to help Dean, but then they got Dean's heart started. 

I could be wrong since I only watched that ep once.

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catrox14

catrox14

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Didn't Billie threaten Dean personally in ep 17.  Billie said no she wasn't going to help Dean, but then they got Dean's heart started. 

I could be wrong since I only watched that ep once.

Yes, she did. She told him she wasn't going to bring him back and the irony was that Sam wasn't dead.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)

Cool that Cas gets back one episode earlier than we thought in episode 5.  Would think that will be at the end of the episode then we will get a full episode with Cas from beginning to end in 6.   Surprising to see Billie again--which makes me think Death may be the secret entity getting Cas out of The Empty.  Not for sure but seems quite possible.

About Lucifer like it or not the show has made Lucifer "complicated"--Chuck had him deal with the Mark and it effected Lucifer to the bad.  Gave Lucifer more than he could handle.  About Dean sloppily eating--it's classic and I love it.

Enjoyed Mark's interview--seemed fine to me.

Edited by Jakes
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

33 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Berens as quick to reassure Sam fans so I'm sure something important is going on. 

Shocking ;)

Mea culpa, I didn't actually read the article, just looked at the pics. I think my brain was confuzzled with all the actual Dean in them!

Just now, Jakes said:

Tree Topper has a tweet by the actress playing Miriam "the drunk" angel saying that Miriam will be back.  Thought she was killed but who knows? 

"Killed" is literally meaningless on the show any more.

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auntvi

auntvi

43 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Says in the article that Sam stays home with Jack to help train him to control his powers.

That one photo of Jody in the front seat of The Car with Dean is kinda disturbing.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Shocking ;)

Mea culpa, I didn't actually read the article, just looked at the pics. I think my brain was confuzzled with all the actual Dean in them!

"Killed" is literally meaningless on the show any more.

Specifically as I mentioned the article says Sam is with Jack at home trying to train him to control his powers.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Specifically as I mentioned the article says Sam is with Jack at home trying to train him to control his powers.

Yes, that's why I said mea culpa, that I hadn't read it.  (I have now) Thanks :)

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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catrox14

catrox14

15 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I like the sneak peak!  I think it's cute that Jack is imitating Dean's mannerisms, trying to learn to be 'human'.  Sam is amused.  And then Dean gets annoyed.  

I read that as Sam being bemused more than amused. Like I actually got a hint of jealousy on Sam's part. But that could be me misreading. We'll see how the scene plays out in the whole episode.

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Diane

Diane

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I read that as Sam being bemused more than amused. Like I actually got a hint of jealousy on Sam's part. But that could be me misreading. We'll see how the scene plays out in the whole episode.

I took it as amused too. It was cute. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I read that as Sam being bemused more than amused. Like I actually got a hint of jealousy on Sam's part. But that could be me misreading. We'll see how the scene plays out in the whole episode.

This is how I saw it too

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I read that as Sam being bemused more than amused. Like I actually got a hint of jealousy on Sam's part. But that could be me misreading. We'll see how the scene plays out in the whole episode.

I agree that it’s best to see it play out in context, but I read it as bemused also. I don’t see it as a jealously thing, but more of an eye roll thing. Kinda like how both Sam and Dean often reacted to Garth in his earlier episodes.

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RulerofallIsurvey

RulerofallIsurvey

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I read that as Sam being bemused more than amused. Like I actually got a hint of jealousy on Sam's part. But that could be me misreading. We'll see how the scene plays out in the whole episode.

I didn't see any jealousy.  And I seriously doubt Sam would be jealous at all over that.  smh.

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catrox14

catrox14

5 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I didn't see any jealousy.  And I seriously doubt Sam would be jealous at all over that.  smh.

Well, that's fine if you don't agree with my reading. And like I said I might be totally wrong on all of it. We shall see. :)

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Bessie

Bessie

17 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And I seriously doubt Sam would be jealous at all over that. 

That would be out of character. Unless Carver’s back. Carver isn’t back, is he? ; )

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Jonesy

Jonesy

Supernatural went to .6 and 1.90 million...so it fell a bit as is usual after a premiere.  In fact almost all the CW did...the amazing thing is SPN is now edging out Riverdale to be the 2nd most popular show on the CW this week with only the Flash ahead of it.  Rather amazing for a show in it's 13th season...so much for the audience disliking the show now and hurting the ratings.  So far this year, it's higher on the popularity food chain than last year which was already strong.

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