Spoilers With Speculation

[ILoveReading]

I hope the name Walt is just a coincidence because I think too much time as has passed since season 5, and so much has gone on that it feels like Roy and Walt should just be water under the bridge, by now.   So many people have tried to kill Sam and Dean since then, Roy and Walt barely register anymore.

[catrox14]

32 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I hope the name Walt is just a coincidence because I think too much time as has passed since season 5, and so much has gone on that it feels like Roy and Walt should just be water under the bridge, by now.   So many people have tried to kill Sam and Dean since then, Roy and Walt barely register anymore.

I don't think it's a coincidence. It's a character named Walt  played by the same actor. IMO, it is the same Walt. 

[ILoveReading]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I don't think it's a coincidence. It's a character named Walt  played by the same actor. IMO, it is the same Walt. 

Thanks for checking.  I just think its odd that it comes up now, after so long. 

[Idahoforspn]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm thinking Jensen's life is a whole lot busier now with 3 kids to take care of.  I don't know that I would read anything into his not tweeting as much as before.  

I hope so and I can see that. It just seems like he doesn't have anything to say much about this season's episodes at cons either. Jared still does. But I am going to hope you are right.

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think it's a coincidence. It's a character named Walt  played by the same actor. IMO, it is the same Walt. 

I thought one of the boys said at the last con that Walt and ?would come up this season. 

[catrox14]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Thanks for checking.  I just think its odd that it comes up now, after so long. 

I'm not surprised. S12 has been lifting motifs, themes, ideas, turns of nostalgia/abuse of nostalgia from Kripke's era all season.  Bringing back Walt and Joshua from 5.16 seems intentional but I don't know why.

1 minute ago, Idahoforspn said:

I thought one of the boys said at the last con that Walt and ?would come up this season. 

Oh, I hadn't heard about that.  Interesting....hmmmmm

[Idahoforspn]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

 

I'm not averse to seeing this at all and I'm sure that Jensen will gut me as usual in these scenes, but I DO fear that that's all that he and his character are really going to get out of these final two episodes. The badass heroics are going to go to anyone and everyone except Dean, IMO. I think it will either be Mary(as part of her redemption sl) or Lady Deadeyes(as part of her redemption) who will wind up killing Ketch. I will be extremely surprised if Dabb allows Dean that kill. I just can't see it happening and especially not if taking into account how the writing for Jensen/Dean has been since the midway point of this season. And Sam is going to be the one to lead the assault(AKA be the "General") with the other hunters, on the BMoL compound. Dean might possibly give him the okay to do that while he deals with Mary, but that will be the extent of his being any kind of a General. Or Sam might even step up and suggest that, too. This also has been the way of the writing, more often than not in the second half of this season. I think that Dabb's remarks in that one interview about both brothers being Generals was just to appease the Deanfans whom he knew were angry over how Dean was being written even at the time of that interview. If there's one thing I've learned about all of the showrunners on this show, it's that being a Lying Liar Who Lies comes easily to them because it's a whole lot easier than having to explain why they simply do not know how to write in a more balanced fashion/manner for their two co-leads.

This!!!

[Aeryn13]

I think it`s them so Sam can give a speech of the "the enemy of my enemy" variety and how bygones are bygones in light of the much more evol BMOL. And then they will heroically die in the attack or something. They most likely will put the scene from their Season 5 episode in the previouslies so the audience is reminded of them. If they do that for a specific line of dialogue "is on a hunting trip and hasn`t been home in a few weeks", they will certainly do it for those two.

No idea how the stories are weighted in this ep. They need to free themselves and capture Mary first. The latter could be done by Jody, I reckon. They also need to gather up the hunters. That should cover acts one and two.

Then we have the Mary stuff and the raid on the BMOL complex. Along with Ketch coming back to the bunker and the ensuing fight. Plus a bit of Cas and Lucifer/Spawn stuff to set up the Finale.

So it is entirely possible the Dean-in-Mary`s-mind stuff is just one scene and the Sam-the-general-part gets the majority of the ep. 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think it`s them so Sam can give a speech of the "the enemy of my enemy" variety and how bygones are bygones in light of the much more evol BMOL. And then they will heroically die in the attack or something. They most likely will put the scene from their Season 5 episode in the previouslies so the audience is reminded of them. If they do that for a specific line of dialogue "is on a hunting trip and hasn`t been home in a few weeks", they will certainly do it for those two.

No idea how the stories are weighted in this ep. They need to free themselves and capture Mary first. The latter could be done by Jody, I reckon. They also need to gather up the hunters. That should cover acts one and two.

Then we have the Mary stuff and the raid on the BMOL complex. Along with Ketch coming back to the bunker and the ensuing fight. Plus a bit of Cas and Lucifer/Spawn stuff to set up the Finale.

So it is entirely possible the Dean-in-Mary`s-mind stuff is just one scene and the Sam-the-general-part gets the majority of the ep. 

This is what I'm thinking too.  I'm thinking Mary shows up at Jody's with the intent to kill her and Jody gets the better of her.   I'm guessing she goes to the bunker with Mary to talk to Sam and Dean.   She may even save Sam and Dean by letting them out from the outside, kind of like Sam and Dean freed Kevin when the showed back up.   Then while there Sam will come up with the plan.  He will lead Jody and other hunters on a raid and Dean will stay behind and try to free Mary.

Jensen said there was a lot put into ep 22 and he hopes they dont' have to cut too much.  Makes me wonder if he might be worried that what little he might get to do might be cut.

[rue721]

On 5/12/2017 at 7:22 PM, SueB said:

4. Mystery Figure w/ guns:

Whoever this mystery figure is, I would love it if they played The Joker by the Steve Miller Band for his "introduction":

Edited May 14, 2017 by rue721
made it clearer what song I'm referring to, in case the video link breaks

[Idahoforspn]

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

 

So it is entirely possible the Dean-in-Mary`s-mind stuff is just one scene and the Sam-the-general-part gets the majority of the ep. 

Does it show how bitter I am about this season that this is what I expect too. When Jensen said something about cuts, I figured he was worried the little bit of badass he gets in the episode will get cut. He said action is easier to cut than dialogue.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Idahoforspn

[ILoveReading]

8 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Whoever this mystery figure is,

Since @SueB (Thank you for taking the time to break down the scenes.)  mentioned the belly.  I can't unsee it.  I'm 99% sure the mystery figure is Bobby.

The Belly, and body type match perfectly.  I'm guessing after Cas recognizes him, we will hear the familiar, idjits. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by ILoveReading

[rue721]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think little Dean will be in an "re-enactment" of the Pilot and will tell brainwashed!Mary how he saw her die, bla bla. Why that would wake her up is anyone`s guess.

I'm wondering if Dean is actually going to be reliving good memories rather than bad ones (maybe from Mary's perspective, maybe from his). He looked so upset in the promo, and I associate that more with feeling grief for good memories and loss than anything else. YMMV.

With the reintroduction of Walt, I'm wondering if this episode will touch a bit on Dark Side of the Moon -- I'm thinking maybe Dean goes to Mary's heaven, and sees the family together and happy there. Or at least himself (as a little kid) and Mary together and happy there.

Or he might take her into some of his own good memories of her, but again, I think that he seemed so touched that IMO it's likely that he's seeing happy times from her perspective.

Edited May 14, 2017 by rue721

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, rue721 said:

I'm wondering if Dean is actually going to be reliving good memories (maybe from Mary's perspective, maybe from his). He looked so upset in the promo, and I associate that more with feeling grief for good memories and loss than anything else. YMMV.

With the reintroduction of Walt, I'm wondering if this episode will touch a bit on Dark Side of the Moon -- I'm thinking maybe Dean goes to Mary's heaven, and sees the family together and happy there. Or at least himself and Mary together and happy there. Or he might take her into some of his own good memories of her, but again, I think that he seemed so touched that IMO it's likely that he's seeing happy times from her perspective.

When Dean is crying I thought it showed Sam next to him upset too.

[rue721]

Oh also. I'm very curious about whether there's going to be any payoff in terms of what Toni was saying about John in this past episode (about his failures as a father).

But if they were going to go in the direction of Mary seeing sad memories of her kids', I think we would have been seeing Mary crying rather than Dean. I mean, Dean already knows all his own memories, and I think would be more ashamed/embarrassed to have Mary see them, rather than actually just crying right in front of her about them.

That said, I do think/hope there is going to be some kind of payoff...no idea what form it might come in, though.

[ILoveReading]

We know from that little script snipped that Dean talks to Mary about the deal and how she lied about keep them safe.  I'm not really seeing how that would work to bring Mary out of her brainwashing because I would think he would want to remind her of happier times. 

Or it could be that Dean cries because he fails to reach Mary, the way this season is going, I can see that happening easily.

[rue721]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

Or it could be that Dean cries because he fails to reach Mary, the way this season is going, I can see that happening easily.

Oh wow, that's true. How depressing.

[ILoveReading]

Just now, rue721 said:

Oh wow, that's true. How depressing.

It could be Mary punching Dean or breaking his leg and him not fighting back. 

[Aeryn13]

Since Mary is obviously herself again in the Finale, something brings her out. And it`s probably Ketch about to kill Dean.  

[rue721]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It could be Mary punching Dean or breaking his leg and him not fighting back. 

Oh, when you said that, I was thinking more like, he tries to remind her of "who she is" by reminding her of the life she chose for herself -- the life with Dean, Sam, and John -- but that's not enough to bring her back.

I'd hate to see him lose her all over again.

I mean, he was really crying pretty hard in that clip. I feel like that's got to be more than him just seeing his own bad memories over again. IMO, that looks more like some kind of fresh loss or fresh realization of what he lost.

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Since Mary is obviously herself again in the Finale, something brings her out. And it`s probably Ketch about to kill Dean.  

I dunno, she wasn't coming to when Ketch did try to kill Dean and Sam by locking them in the bunker. Maybe even ManchurianCandidate!Mary was like, "pfffft this is a terrible plan!" and wrote it off ;)

My prediction is that she's going to come to by being reminded of what makes her HER in some way -- choices she made for herself, love that people had for her in particular, I dunno. Something about who she is rather than about her kids, though.

Edited May 14, 2017 by rue721

[Wayward Son]

IMO unless they're purposely trying to present Mary's bond with the boys as weak then she needs to be able to break free based solely on her love for Dean. We saw John do it in Devil's Trap, Bobby in Sympathy For the Devil, Sam in Swan Song and Castiel in Goodbye Strager (and arguably Lucifer Rising). If all of them can do it and Mary can't then it doesn't say much for the mother / son bond does it?

Edited May 14, 2017 by Wayward Son

[rue721]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

IMO unless they're purposely trying to present Mary's bond with the boy as weak then she needs to be able to break free based solely on Dean. We saw John do it in Devil's Trap, Bobby in Sympathy For the Devil, Sam in Swan Song and Castiel in Goodbye Strager (and arguably Lucifer Rising). If all of them can do it and Mary can't then it doesn't say much for the mother / son bond does it?

I don't think so, because IMO Mary's problem right now is that she's lost herself. So I think she's got to be reminded who she is, and THEN she'll be able to break out of this brainwashing. Since she doesn't define herself by her relationship to the boys or anyone else (and has said so to them), I don't think that reminding her of that bond/relationship will be enough to break her out of it. And IMO, that's fair enough. Although of course, mileage varies. :)

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Oh also. I'm very curious about whether there's going to be any payoff in terms of what Toni was saying about John in this past episode (about his failures as a father).

But if they were going to go in the direction of Mary seeing sad memories of her kids', I think we would have been seeing Mary crying rather than Dean. I mean, Dean already knows all his own memories, and I think would be more ashamed/embarrassed to have Mary see them, rather than actually just crying right in front of her about them.

That said, I do think/hope there is going to be some kind of payoff...no idea what form it might come in, though.

I think we're going to find out that Dean's has some additional repressed childhood memories that he doesn't readily remember because it's too traumatic, that's why I worry about it being something Dean did either on purpose or unintentionally. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

My prediction is that she's going to come to by being reminded of what makes her HER in some way -- choices she made for herself, love that people had for her in particular, I dunno. Something about who she is rather than about her kids, though.

Could be. But I found Mary to be really self-involved this Season, way past the point of being sympathetic. So this would just be more of that for me. Oh look, she needs more about herself, how wonderful. 

I think the writers are trying an eleventh hour redemption with the character by making her less self-involved and sweeping her Season-long characterization under the rug so she doesn`t get called on anything anymore.

[MysteryGuest]

53 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I hope so and I can see that. It just seems like he doesn't have anything to say much about this season's episodes at cons either. Jared still does. But I am going to hope you are right.

I think now that they're finished filming for the season, he's probably heavily involved in his beer project.  The plan is to open soon, so I think he just has a lot going on right now, in addition to just trying to relax after the long season.  I know that they make comments at cons about the show, but I think a lot depends on the actual questions they're asked.  They get a lot more personal questions than ever before, IMO.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

IMO unless they're purposely trying to present Mary's bond with the boys as weak then she needs to be able to break free based solely on her love for Dean. We saw John do it in Devil's Trap, Bobby in Sympathy For the Devil, Sam in Swan Song and Castiel in Goodbye Strager (and arguably Lucifer Rising). If all of them can do it and Mary can't then it doesn't say much for the mother / son bond does it?

Dean already had that beat when he stopped Possessed!Mary in the Foundry from killing him. At this point, I think it will be Sam who has to get through to her. Dean's tears could be because he couldn't get through to her and he thinks he's failed.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

At this point, I think it will be Sam who has to get through to her. 

Sam has to be hunter-General and Dean is obviously not there. If he even fails in the Mary sideplot, then what good is he in the episode?  

[rue721]

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the writers are trying an eleventh hour redemption with the character by making her less self-involved and sweeping her Season-long characterization under the rug so she doesn`t get called on anything anymore.

Definitely possible.

To be honest, this is where I can see John coming into things. Last episode, it seemed to me that the only time she seemed to actually perk up and get out of her own head for a second was when Toni mentioned him.

I think maybe her bond with the boys isn't enough to bring her back to herself, but maybe her bond with him is?

Of course, that could just be my perspective -- my mind continues to be blown by her relative indifference to him this whole season. The man was absolutely devastated when she died and she has barely mentioned him. I'm not really getting it. So I'm hoping for some payoff there, too.

Edited May 14, 2017 by rue721

[Wayward Son]

5 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I don't think so, because IMO Mary's problem right now is that she's lost herself. So I think she's got to be reminded who she is, and THEN she'll be able to break out of this brainwashing. Since she doesn't define herself by her relationship to the boys or anyone else (and has said so to them), I don't think that reminding her of that bond/relationship will be enough to break her out of it. And IMO, that's fair enough. Although of course, mileage varies. :)

I can see that argument applying to John, Bobby and Sam since possession is different to mind control. However, wasn't Castiel essentially in the same position as Mary during Goodbye Strangers? He had lost a sense of himself due to extensive mind control and training exercises that included the slaughter of hundreds of "faux" Dean's. IMO if he can do it she certainly should be able to, but of course YMMV :) 

 

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean already had that beat when he stopped Possessed!Mary in the Foundry from killing him. At this point, I think it will be Sam who has to get through to her. Dean's tears could be because he couldn't get through to her and he thinks he's failed.

Hmm that's a possibility! Now it has me musing on potentially bitch vs jerk, although I don't mean it that way. I know we've seen Dean get through to people possessed / mind control throughout the show. Have we ever seen Sam get through to a loved one in a similar manner? 

If we haven't then I think I'd be OK with Sam getting to be the one to get through to a loved one for once.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

I can see that argument applying to John, Bobby and Sam since possession is different to mind control. However, wasn't Castiel essentially in the same position as Mary during Goodbye Strangers? He had lost a sense of himself due to extensive mind control and training exercises that included the slaughter of hundreds of "faux" Dean's. IMO if he can do it she certainly should be able to, but of course YMMV :) 

 

Hmm that's a possibility! Now it has me musing on potentially bitch vs jerk, although I don't mean it that way. I know we've seen Dean get through to people possessed / mind control throughout the show. Have we ever seen Sam get through to a loved one in a similar manner? 

If we haven't then I think I'd be OK with Sam getting to be the one to get through to a loved one for once.

I would be I guess okay with it, as long as Dean gets something else to do in the episode. Some kind of win.

What I found interesting is that it's Dean's leg with the gash by appearances and he's walking back into the Bunker based on the walls. I wonder when that happens.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

If we haven't then I think I'd be OK with Sam getting to be the one to get through to a loved one for once.

That would be fine if they swapped stories for the episode. But Dean kinda needs to do this since Sam does the BMOL part of the episode. He can`t gloriously lead the entire raid and free Mary at the same time. IMO the episode will not have enough runtime to accomodate that if both things go on at the same time.

[MysteryGuest]

The scene of Dean crying and the scene of Sam choked up appear to be in different places, so who knows what's going on.  Since we see that Dean undergoes some sort "treatment", I'm think his tears relate to whatever happens there.  Whether he just relives Mary's death as a child again, or whether he sees something he didn't remember, is anyone's guess.

The scene with Sam shows Jody right behind him, and I think they're at the BMOL headquarters.  Jody doesn't appear to be as distraught as Sam, so hopefully, that bodes well for Claire.  Maybe Sam is upset about something with Mary, possibly before she breaks through the brainwashing?  It's really hard to tell what's going to happen because they seem to be all over the place.  It's going to be another jam-packed episode, that's for sure.  It would have been nice if they'd spread some of that plot out during the season.  I like a good finale, but if there's too much going on, it takes away from the story.

[Wayward Son]

18 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

.Jody doesn't appear to be as distraught as Sam, so hopefully, that bodes well for Claire.

 

I'm honestly not worried about Claire. We already know from Ladies Drink Free she has been separated from Jody and Alex for a while now, so her lack of appearance makes sense. Plus, Claire seems to be a character the writers are invested in, so I couldn't see them giving her an off screen death. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

I think Sam looking distraught is in connection with the clip of the phone showing "Ketch" as the caller ID. He has probably been told that Ketch has been sent to the bunker and he knows that Dean is vulnerable while under the spell, Mary is a wild card and Lady Deadeyes untrustworthy. To see "Ketch" calling would imply that he calls in with the "good" news that he took care of things. Meanwhile it could be Mary or even Dean using his phone to call BMOL headquarters.  

Alternatively, he learns about Magda.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Aeryn13

[MysteryGuest]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

I'm honestly not worried about Claire. We already know from Ladies Drink Free she has been separated from Jody and Alex for a while now, so her lack of appearance makes sense. Plus, Claire seems to be a character the writers are invested in, so I couldn't see them giving her an off screen death. 

I can't imagine them giving any of the recurring characters an off-screen death which is what has me concerned about Rowena.  I don't think she's listed as being in the last two episodes, but clearly that's her hair that Lucifer has.  

I honestly don't know what to think at this point.  Putting all of the main characters in peril, whether in The Empty or somewhere else, works best for me.  The hardest part about this show is watching them continuously kill off characters you've come to like.  I'd be all for a storyline where the boys need to use their ingenuity to get everyone back home.  I'm tired of watching the bumbling hunter scenes and really would love to see them as the strong, smart, fearless men they are.

[CluelessDrifter]

23 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

The scene of Dean crying and the scene of Sam choked up appear to be in different places, so who knows what's going on.  Since we see that Dean undergoes some sort "treatment", I'm think his tears relate to whatever happens there.  Whether he just relives Mary's death as a child again, or whether he sees something he didn't remember, is anyone's guess.

The scene with Sam shows Jody right behind him, and I think they're at the BMOL headquarters.  Jody doesn't appear to be as distraught as Sam, so hopefully, that bodes well for Claire.  Maybe Sam is upset about something with Mary, possibly before she breaks through the brainwashing?  It's really hard to tell what's going to happen because they seem to be all over the place.  It's going to be another jam-packed episode, that's for sure.  It would have been nice if they'd spread some of that plot out during the season.  I like a good finale, but if there's too much going on, it takes away from the story.

I think the clip with Dean looks like there's the soft glow of a dreamscape behind him, so that's from whatever he's seeing in Mary's head.  With Sam, I'm guessing his reaction is to someone on their team who dies. 

[companionenvy]

On the mystery man: I agree that that could be Bobby, from the look of him. My reservation is that in dramatic terms, if the mystery guy is Bobby, then Cas shouldn't be the one getting the reaction shot and line - it should be Dean or Sam, who were far closer to Bobby than Cas was. Since it is Cas, it would seem more likely that he is saying "you" to someone who would be more of a personal shock to him, and at the very least, not less significant to him than to Sam and Dean. That makes Death, Gabriel,  or future!Sproutifer likelier guesses; given the way promos are cut, he doesn't have to be reacting to the guy in the picture, does he? I also like the idea of it being some sort of alternative Dean, although I'm not sure if "you" would be the most natural reaction in that case. 

Of course, speculating based on narrative and emotional logic may be a mistake...

[SueB]

I think Rowena's hair is a fake out and she's somehow escaped Lucifer. She's pretty slippery.  I expect her back next season.

The scene with Sam, Dean & Mary in the bunker (with the lights on), looks to be the coda for EP22.  I think Mary is back to being Mary and has come home to the bunker. 

[Jonesy]

14 hours ago, rue721 said:

Whoever this mystery figure is, I would love it if they played The Joker by the Steve Miller Band for his "introduction":

 

The mystery figure is shaped like Bobby but Benny also.  Now when Cas sees Him(?)  could it be by that time that Dean and Sam aren't there?   Just so that it isn't Billie to reap Cas then I'm fine.

Do they announce who the regulars are next year for Supernatural at the CW upfronts or does that come later?

[DeansDorkyAngel]

Ok, one more thing I wanted to add about that Mystery Man.  I am 100% sure it's not a supernatural being like an angel or a demon. Because why on earth would they carry a weapon other than a blade?  I think it's human!  More likely Bobby as I said before. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by DeansDorkyAngel

[Jonesy]

Am I getting this wrong or does it seem like the mystery figure is saving Cas by shooting someone else?

[catrox14]

So, I wonder if anything can be gleaned as to Cas' status based on the props Misha is giving away.

[SueB]

3 hours ago, Jakes said:

Am I getting this wrong or does it seem like the mystery figure is saving Cas by shooting someone else?

Absolutely. 

[Jonesy]

25 minutes ago, SueB said:

Absolutely. 

Thanks--well i'll take that as a great sign of Cas surviving.  Could be wrong but this mystery person strikes me as a last second reveal leading into season 13...so therefore Cas almost gets killed but mystery person saves the Angel.

[Diane]

[companionenvy]

I'm wondering if the season leaves off with the Winchesters thinking that Cas is dead, not realizing he's been saved by mystery man. Which, if Cas and the Winchesters are separated by then, could theoretically be Bobby or Benny. 

I've always thought we were overdue for a plot dealing with the pretty terrible nature of heaven. If the show ever decides to tackle that, Bobby would seem to be a natural for a return -- and given that Mary may well wind up back in heaven at some point (not this season, I think, but maybe next), this would be a good time to address that plot point.

They need to go back to heaven at some point, if only because I will never forgive this show if the last we see of Bobby is him getting hauled off to heaven's jail :(

[CluelessDrifter]

Just now, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I think that had more to do with getting as far away from the Nazis as possible (Britain was in grave danger of invasions all the way through the War) than anything to do with inter-europe MoL relations.

True, but it does suggest that proximity doesn't necessarily mean that the BMoL are going to get involved outside their own country.  I also tend to think that there's every possibility that the BMoL were compromised.  Who knows how long Hess has really been alive?  She looks exactly the same as she did in that flashback to when Mick was a kid.  One of the most infamous ranking members of the Nazi regime was Rudolph Hess, who flew to Scotland to try and broker peace before being arrested, held, and sent back to Germany for the Nuremberg trials.  He was also a real life member of the Thule society. 

They brought Hitler in earlier this season.  Maybe they'll tie the BMoL in with the Thule through Hess, or maybe it's just a nod to the Nazis, so we'll associate the BMoL with them.  Either way, I think they were compromised, and that's why she didn't go there.  Whether or not they go anywhere with it, I don't know.  I think they might just drop the BMoL even though we still have those pesky 'Old Men' who are behind everything to consider.  However, there is a set up there for it if they choose to take it.

[catrox14]

Okay...so, that preview. I'm thinking these two episodes are not as separated as what it appears ( and also could 100% wrong and it's exactly that way LOL)

I'm really starting to wonder if all that stuff in the other world is what Cas saw in The Future that wasn't shown on screen. That he was given all that as a glimpse like Dean got in THE END and it's not a place that they all actually go together after all. It's like a dreamwalk kind of thing. I dunno. I could also be 100% wrong.

Who tells them about Lucifer? Rowena? Did Crowley or Deminion #10 call them to tell them? Did they find out from Not!Umbrage or Ketch? Did Lucifer get all smug and send them a text message saying "Surprise, M'thafuckas!" ?

Maybe Ketch and Mary go back to the bunker to tell them that Lucifer is out and about and they desperately need their help? I will allow for being 100% wrong on this spec too.

Yet the thing I find still keep coming back to is what appears to be Dean's severely injured, possibly broken leg. If it's not Dean's leg then it's someone who's got relatively slender calves and bowlegs wearing boots like Dean and has access to the bunker. Presuming that is Dean,  he doesn't appear to have that injury with him, Sam and Lady NeedsHerHeadLoppedOffASAP stuff, nor with just him and her doing the mind trip thing, nor with him, Sam and Mary over the table doing whatever spell they are doing. And it doesn't look like an injury he can just bounce back from without Cas or another angel healing him. 

So I want to know why, where, when and how it happens? And I'm now wondering if  whatever happens to Dean he ends up back in the Bunker...alone and that is the cliffhanger rather than Mystery Figure? (Also, I could very well be 100% wrong about it).

[Geordiegirl1967]

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/if-the-upcoming-supernatural-f-64685.aspx

Article about the finale including this nugget from Ruthie C

Quote

"I feel like the end of the season is going to ruffle quite a few feathers in the fandom," Connell said at last weekend's Ottawa Comiccon. "I'm going to say that I don't think things are going to get easier, let's put it that way."

I  think they are building up to killing off Cas. I don't think it will stick, but I think they will leave fans wondering / fretting over the summer. Misha has already said he isn't looking forward to dealing with fans emotional fallout from the finale at the up coming cons. Plus is it a coincidence Ruthie referred to 'feathers'?

We have often left a season not knowing whether Sam or Dean are alive or dead. We haven't done that with Cas to date. Interesting.

I like Cas but think they long ago ran out of ideas of what to do with him, so if they killed him off I could deal. I know alot would feel much more strongly than me.

The article also contained this corker.....

Quote

Rounding out what has certainly been one of Supernatural's strongest seasons to date,

Huh?

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/if-the-upcoming-supernatural-f-64685.aspx

Article about the finale including this nugget from Ruthie C

I  think they are building up to killing off Cas. I don't think it will stick, but I think they will leave fans wondering / fretting over the summer. Misha has already said he isn't looking forward to dealing with fans emotional fallout from the finale at the up coming cons. Plus is it a coincidence Ruthie referred to 'feathers'?

We have often left a season not knowing whether Sam or Dean are alive or dead. We haven't done that with Cas to date. Interesting.

I like Cas but think they long ago ran out of ideas of what to do with him, so if they killed him off I could deal. I know alot would feel much more strongly than me.

The article also contained this corker.....

Huh?

Huh, indeed. Maybe a casual viewer who DGAF about the Winchesters-proper could think so, otherwise... huh to the nth.  I also heard of another article (or is it this one) where Dabb was saying that this finale would be the 'most meta' one they've ever done. Seriously. WTF? Maybe they actually let a fangirl write it instead of just dictate it? /sarcasm

 

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

<snip>Who tells them about Lucifer? Rowena? Did Crowley or Deminion #10 call them to tell them? Did they find out from Not!Umbrage or Ketch? Did Lucifer get all smug and send them a text message saying "Surprise, M'thafuckas!" ?

I would pay actual hard cash to see this.

But then I'm still waiting for any actual mention of Dean surviving the soul bomb and saving God/Chuck last season finale, beyond Cas' 'you're alive?' 

[ILoveReading]

25 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So I want to know why, where, when and how it happens? And I'm now wondering if  whatever happens to Dean he ends up back in the Bunker...alone and that is the cliffhanger rather than Mystery Figure? (Also, I could very well be 100% wrong about it).

This is what I've been wondering.  Show does love its parallels, and I can see them mirroring s7 where Cas, Sam and Mary end up left behind in the mystery land while Dean get out and he's all alone. 

6 hours ago, Jakes said:

Now when Cas sees Him(?)  could it be by that time that Dean and Sam aren't there

After Cas says "you" we see a shot of Sam and Dean.  I thought that was their reaction to seeing Bobby whoever the mystery man is