Spoilers With Speculation

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That wasn't enough carthasis for me. It was more like Catharsis Interruptus, for this viewer, since he ended up apologizing and "making peace" when it should have been Mary doing that.

Exactly.  Mary just accepted the apology like it was her due. Dean did nothing wrong and and nothing he said wasn't true. 

Also, just wanted to say that your nicknames for Lady Toni always make me smile. 

[SueB]

@catrox14 @ILoveReading

Oh, I agree, it definitely took some of the shine off of the catharsis.  I just don't think we'll have a full venting as desired.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

26 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

My comment was about Sam and SAM ALONE because Sam is the character  who was grievously harmed by the BMoL and still chose to work for them.  How is that Sam vs Dean wank when I LITERALLY never mentioned Dean because Dean wasn't the character who was tortured and wasn't the character I was discussing?

It really is possible to actually discuss one brother or the other separate from the other brother without it being Sam Vs Dean.

If Dean had been the one being tortured and had opted in after suffering the same torment as Sam, I would literally be asking the same question but he wasn't. So again how is that Sam vs Dean? 

I apologize if I misinterpreted your comment.  I agree that one should be able to discuss one brother without having to dismiss the other or it devolving into a sam vs. dean argument.  However, my response was also due to this line:

Quote

I say this because Sam has chosen to work with them. If the Good Guy goes to work for them, isn't that kind of giving them some kind of tacit approval?

Because Dean also chose to work with them in spite of also being grievously harmed by the BMoL (I seem to remember someone - not sure who it was - making the argument earlier in the season that Dean had also been tortured by the BMoL, is that not true?)  Your entire comment seemed to be ignoring that fact and concentrating only on the fact that Sam chose to work with them.  Since Dean is also a Good Guy who has chosen to work with them (for what ever reason) doesn't that also give them some kind of tacit approval from him?  (based on your own logic?)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

36 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Which is what I said in my original post that I hope he doesn't.

But it was ignored with Mary focusing on Dean's "be a mom line." and Dean later apologizing and basically saying that he was upset for her not singing hey jude and making soup. The "I never was a child" seemed to be lost on Mary.   They have a good opening if that line is accurate I was just expressing hope they would take it. 

Your original post said you hoped that Dean talked about how Mary's deal "also" affected him.  I pointed out that the script spoiler, as it's been presented so far, is ONLY about how Mary's deal affected Dean.  You seem to be assuming that the conversation will automatically become about Sam when you want it to remain about Dean.  I am merely pointing out that right now, there is an equal chance it could go either way.

And anyway, why shouldn't it be about Sam 'also'?  I don't think Mary realizes how her deal affected either of her sons.  So why shouldn't the conversation point out what happened to both of them, rather just one or the other?  

[rue721]

25 minutes ago, SueB said:

Oh, I agree, it definitely took some of the shine off of the catharsis.  I just don't think we'll have a full venting as desired.

This is most definitely an UO, but I don't want to see a full venting. For one thing, the show has made it clear that Mary wouldn't even understand what was being said. She would have basically zero context and she's kind of...I don't want to say superficial, because she isn't, but...she's not exactly a deep thinker. So venting at her seems like it would do nothing but make the relationship worse.

I've just got this bee in my bonnet that Mary is going to end up trying to sacrifice herself to "make things right." The Winchesters always do that shit. And since we've been talking about that episode where Gavin does something similar...I know when that episode about Gavin aired, I immediately thought that the show was foreshadowing something to do with Mary -- namely, foreshadowing that Mary would change the past somehow to spare John his "trauma" so that he wouldn't wind up the off-the-grid nutcase he became, the way that Gavin spared Fiona her "trauma" so that she wouldn't become a vengeful spirit. Something about that just twigs me.

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Because Dean also chose to work with them in spite of also being grievously harmed by the BMoL (I seem to remember someone - not sure who it was - making the argument earlier in the season that Dean had also been tortured by the BMoL, is that not true?)  Your entire comment seemed to be ignoring that fact and concentrating only on the fact that Sam chose to work with them.  Since Dean is also a Good Guy who has chosen to work with them (for what ever reason) doesn't that also give them some kind of tacit approval from him?  (based on your own logic?

 

Respectfully, I think you inferred that simply because my comment focused on Sam Winchester who is ONE of the heroes. I did not focus on Dean because Dean was not tortured.  He was captured, beaten and threatened to die by needle in his eye.

Sam suffered the following.

--being tied up
--his face cut
--beaten in his face
--forced to sit under a shower of freezing water for hours it would seem
--had his foot burned by a blowtorch
--mind raped by drugs and spellwork

I was trying to fathom what the show is doing with Sam here, which is unrelated to Dean because Dean was not tortured. 

I am  focusing on and marginally more interested in Sam's motivations  at the moment because they are complicated by him having been tortured extensively' by the people he is choosing to work with.  

IMO, the writing for Sam has not  offered any reasonable explanation or motivation as to why he would join up after everything he went through at their hands. It's a question I have had since he first listened to Mary about it. It never made sense and it still doesn't, character wise for Sam.  But yet he did ,so WHY would he? And what does him joining say about the show's view of BMOL? 

That was the point of my post. Which has literally nothing to do with Dean.  They are mutually exclusive in this situation.

[SueB]

18 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was trying to fathom what the show is doing with Sam here, which is unrelated to Dean because Dean was not tortured. 

While ITA that Sam's torture was FAR more horrific than Dean's beating, Dean WAS beaten with the brass knuckles and was theoretically seconds away from torture.  

But I DO appreciate that you are concerned that Sam's torture for the first two episodes is not being addressed.  I'm presuming that topic will be handled more in his engagement with Lady Toni.  If they don't address that at all, I'll be mighty pissed as well.  I'm not sure I want it addressed in two different scenes, however.  Not because it's unimportant, but because it seems like they've not shown a lingering affect on Sam from the torture except for being distraught about Mary's decision.  But Sam is not having nightsweats or anything.  So, while it's important, I'm not sure he's still actively working through residual issues as an on-going character arc.  I think Lady Toni's return is a more pressing place to address it in the last few episodes of the season than in the Mary story.  Mary has already developed a shit-ton of baggage and bad decisions since resurrection that need to be "unpacked".  My personal rank order for Mary's bad decisions this year are:
1) Running away from Sam and Dean - that's so glaringly #1 in my book, the rest are a major step function down
2) Choosing to lie to Sam and Dean about the BMoL; risking their lives, Cas' life, and getting Wally killed.
3) Choosing to work with the BMoL in the first place --- this is where I think the Lady Toni issue is ranked
4) Sleeping with Ketch
5) Buying into the genocide
6) Shit we haven't learned yet but is probably going on

Again, for me, her running away from Sam and Dean HURTS every single week.  It's this open wound that is not getting better IMO.  It's very selfish.  I used to think she was doing it "for her boys", but now I'm convinced that's the rationalization she told herself but her motivation is that she just can't face them. She blames herself for their lives** -- which is thus a CONDEMNATION of their life choices.  So, nopeville for me.  They will have a hard time recovering Mary for me at this point.  

** I think it's possible the writers feel her inability to face the boys is sympathetic but I'm not feeling it. 

ETA: I actually think it's a reasonable story-telling choice to have Mary turn out to be so less than ideal, I'm just not sure I'm ENJOYING the story.  I'm possibly too emotionally invested in the main characters to enjoy the complexity of Mary's choices. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, SueB said:

While ITA that Sam's torture was FAR more horrific than Dean's beating, Dean WAS beaten with the brass knuckles and was theoretically seconds away from torture.  

Perhaps you missed my other post in which I literally acknowledged that Dean was beaten, tied up and was THISCLOSE to having a needle put in his eye.

I AM also NOT diminishing Dean simply because I am not addressing his motivations because my post was about Sam.

Honestly, Is it so unbelievable that a Dean leaning fan can actually be concerned with Sam's torture and how it might be affecting his charaterization and motivations?

It seems like talking about each brother separately from the other is getting spun as though that is Sam vs  Dean..and I just don't get it.

Edited April 6, 2017 by catrox14

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, SueB said:

 Not because it's unimportant, but because it seems like they've not shown a lingering affect on Sam from the torture except for being distraught about Mary's decision.  But Sam is not having nightsweats or anything.

This has got me thinking that maybe I'm misreading Sam's almost Zen thing is not really Zen but more that he just shut down after the torture and mind rape. That he's kind of in a detached state more than a Zen state. I dunno.

[SueB]

42 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Perhaps you missed my other post in which I literally acknowledged that Dean was beaten, tied up and was THISCLOSE to having a needle put in his eye.

I AM also NOT diminishing Dean simply because I am not addressing his motivations because my post was about Sam.

Honestly, Is it so unbelievable that a Dean leaning fan can actually be concerned with Sam's torture and how it might be affecting his charaterization and motivations?

It seems like talking about each brother separately from the other is getting spun as though that is Sam vs  Dean..and I just don't get it.

You're right, I missed your post.  

I'm not talking Sam vs Dean. Just speaking of what my priorities are regarding topics of 'bad decisions' causing issues between Sam and Mary. I also think that's the same list for Dean. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by SueB

[AwesomO4000]

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was trying to fathom what the show is doing with Sam here,

I gave up on that a long time ago, because my general conclusion is that they - with an exception or two* - don't care all that much about Sam's motivation / characterization if it isn't convenient to do so. It's become worse since the Carver era, but there were already instances earlier even in the Kripke era. "Chris Angel Is a Douchebag" being one glaring example. Need Sam to start drinking demon blood again to forward the plot? Well, just have him declare "I don't want to be doing this when I'm old"... whatever the hell that means. That's good enough.

Want to fuel Dean's abandonment issues? No problem, just have Sam not look for Dean for even a moment and then inexplicably not be sorry about it. And let's throw in not looking for Kevin, too, because who cares if that looks bad as long as we get some angst out of it? Oh and let's make sure he immediately hates / distrusts the vampire who saved Dean, too. Who cares if Sam's usually the one who gives the monsters the benefit of the doubt and that Benny is actually good? We'll have him stubbornly stick to his assertions anyway.

Need the angst level upped for the rest of the season? No problem, we'll have Sam not forgive Dean for the Gadreel incident. Who cares if Sam usually does forgive people? We'll just have him not this time... oh until the end of the season when he declares Gadreel a "good friend." Who cares if that doesn't make sense? We need Sam and Dean to disagree about strategy and now Gadreel is going to be the "good guy", so do it anyway.

My guess as to what they are doing with Sam here is the same as my guess was earlier on in the season. I think they are setting Sam up to be "wrong" again, because that's pretty much what they've done since season 8. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense. It didn't make much sense in season 8 or season 9 either, in my opinion. But if they want to eventually show the BMoL as the bad guys - which I think they do - maybe they think it's "boring" if both brothers know that or are suspicious from the start, so at least one of them is set up as being surprised / duped by it for "shock" value. And in general, the one who's set up is usually Sam no matter if it makes sense or not.

Basically if the plotonium is going to fall on someone, I think it generally falls on Sam harder than it does Dean. Sometimes Dean might have a stupidity moment or a strategy/skills breakdown to facilitate the plot (Sam has those too), but generally his personality isn't completely compromised. That sometimes does happen to Sam though in order to facilitate the plot or create angst. At least in my opinion it does.

* That exception mainly being Gamble. For most of season 6.5 throughout season 7, Gamble let Sam be Sam, in my opinion. There was no setting him up to be "wrong" or having him act out of character for the sake of angst.  When Dean went missing, Sam looked. When Dean was having problems, Sam wanted to help. When they had an argument, Sam listened to Dean and compromised rather than hold a grudge for multiple episodes. Unfortunately, Gamble's influence in this regard wasn't allowed to stay, so we're back to "who cares if we compromise Sam's character a bit as long as it serves the plot?" again

[ILoveReading]

9 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And anyway, why shouldn't it be about Sam 'also'?  I don't think Mary realizes how her deal affected either of her sons.  So why shouldn't the conversation point out what happened to both of them, rather just one or the other?

Because Sam and Dean are individuals and Mary's deal affected them in very different ways and Sam is capable of speaking up for himself.   One of the biggest disappointments about this season is a lack of a scene that between Dean and Mary that is about Dean.  He's talked to Mary about John, Sam, and technology but we haven't had a Dean/Mary scene where they focus on their relationship. 

When I said I wanted Dean to talk about how the deal affected him also, was mostly because of the 2nd line where he starts talking about yellow eyes.  It could go either way, and I was simply expressing hope the topic of conversation stays on Dean. 

[DittyDotDot]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, the writing for Sam has not  offered any reasonable explanation or motivation as to why he would join up after everything he went through at their hands. It's a question I have had since he first listened to Mary about it. It never made sense and it still doesn't, character wise for Sam.  But yet he did ,so WHY would he? And what does him joining say about the show's view of BMOL? 

Well, perhaps Ladi Toni brainwashed Sam in some way? Or Sam has been possessed by one of the Princes of Hell this whole time? Or maybe Sam is playing a long revenge game on the BMoL? Or... ;)

No, seriously, I think Sam was moved and distracted by Mary's want to give them a life without hunting, the shiny toys and organizational skills that he didn't look any harder at their story that it wasn't the BMoL who did the torture, but just this one rogue person. Why he hasn't side-eyed the whole thing a bit more after, I'm sure, Dean told Sam about his encounter with Ketch, I don't know. But, IMO, Sam has generally been able to compartmentalize these things and move past them. Maybe it's just that with everything that Sam's been through in his life what Lady Toni did to him is just small potatoes--just another Thursday at the office? 

I actually think it makes sense and is in character for Sam to want to believe them. He's the generally hopeful and trusting guy in comparison to Dean's realist side eyeing. Sam has always wanted--or maybe it's needed--to believe there's something good out there to outweigh the bad. And, I also think Sam needs to believe there is something better out there too; there's always a greener pasture if he could just make it over the next hill. Unfortunately it tends to come back and bite him in the ass, but I think it does make a certain amount of sense for Sam as a character.

And, to bring this back to spoilers and speculation--@AwesomO4000, you may want to cover your ears for this part--I'm thinking Sam will end up doing a big ole "DUH!" after this episode. If they're killing American hunters coupled with what he learned in the last episode--and, I would imagine, Madga and the Secret Service guys are going to come to light at some point--if he doesn't and continues to think the Brits are really doing good things, then I'll be as baffled as you at this point.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, the writing for Sam has not  offered any reasonable explanation or motivation as to why he would join up after everything he went through at their hands. It's a question I have had since he first listened to Mary about it. It never made sense and it still doesn't, character wise for Sam.  But yet he did ,so WHY would he? And what does him joining say about the show's view of BMOL? 

I agree that there hasn't been sufficient explanation/motivation given as to why Sam would agree to work with the BMoL.  I'm not holding out any hope that we'll get any more than we have though.  To be honest, I don't think Sam joining up with the BMoL says any thing about the show's view of them other than, as @AwesomO4000 points out:

7 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

But if they want to eventually show the BMoL as the bad guys - which I think they do - maybe they think it's "boring" if both brothers know that or are suspicious from the start, so at least one of them is set up as being surprised / duped by it for "shock" value. And in general, the one who's set up is usually Sam no matter if it makes sense or not.

I really do think this is what's going to happen.  As far as addressing Sam's torture, I would like to see that also.  But I agree with @SueB that it makes more sense to do that in an ep where his torturer is present.  It could also be that your speculation about Sam repressing (the memories, thinking about it, etc) is correct - and seeing Lady Hopeshegetsshotinthehead again is what triggers - well, not a full on break down, I don't want to see that, but makes his Zen composure crack.  

[ILoveReading]

[Diane]

[DittyDotDot]

Aww poor Dabb, seems he's fallen for the TV trope that enemies are just friends yet to be discovered! ;)

Edited April 6, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[goldy]

[SueB]

I don't care if it's "Mick propping" in some people's mind - that was damn funny ... the way Dean literally noped out at the end.  I love the comic timing of our boys.

And this is clearly going to be Mick's crisis episode.  I don't know if he survives the season (or episode).  We are certainly putting enough time into his psyche and backstory to go ahead and kill him (Supernatural 101).  I know many don't love him, but maybe that's on purpose.  They can't do another "Charlie".  If we love them too much, they get slaughtered by negative feedback.  

Mick's backstory explains his loyalty and obvious conundrum. I think he genuinely likes the boys.

Also... "Would you want YOUR Mom to be hanging out with Ketch?" Great. WAY TO BREAK MY HEART. No, it's not supposed to break my heart, but just reminding me of how much she still means to them and knowing she's sleeping with Ketch.  Argh. Feels.  

Edited April 6, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

LOOOL at Dean putting his head back on the table when Mick mentioned vodka. THAT was perfect.  That is the kind of comic timing Jensen did much more in the earlier days or even in the Dog Dean episode. Subtle funny shit that didn't go TOO big. That seriously made me laugh out loud. 

It was similar to him being hungover and still kind of drunk with the wrestlers. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

No, it's not supposed to break my heart, but just reminding me of how much she still means to them and knowing she's sleeping with Ketch.

Uh, we don't know she's sleeping with Ketch. Seriously, cup of sugar! ;)

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

Also... "Would you want YOUR Mom to be hanging out with Ketch?" Great. WAY TO BREAK MY HEART. No, it's not supposed to break my heart, but just reminding me of how much she still means to them and knowing she's sleeping with Ketch.  Argh. Feels.  

I don't want to even see Dean's face ( well, I DO but you know what I mean) if and when he finds out they are bumping fuzzies. It will be EVEN WORSE when he finds out all the dirty shit Ketch has done. I'm wondering if Mary knows they assassinate any and all witnesses never mind "monsters".

[ILoveReading]

I wonder if this is what brings Lady Toni back into the fold.  Her son is approaching school age, and since its seems only 50% of the kids managed to get thought grade school, she may not want him attending Hunter Hogwarts.

She could show up looking for protection.

[Wayward Son]

Synopsis for 12x19 is out

 

Quote

KELLY MAKES A BOLD CHOICE – Sam (Jared Padalecki) comes up with a way to stop Lucifer’s (Mark Pellegrino) baby but Castiel (Misha Collins) has something else in mind for Kelly (guest star Courtney Ford). Dean (Jensen Ackles) is furious when he finds out someone stole the colt. Kelly makes a bold choice about the baby’s future. Amanda Tapping directed the episode written by Robert Berens & Meredith Glynn (#1219). Original airdate 4/27/2017. (x)

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Synopsis for 12x19 is out

 

Meep :(

[Wayward Son]

More idiot Cas to look forward to (since he can NEVER be the one in the right when he and the brothers disagree over tactics)! I'm so, so excited for this episode! Not! 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

More idiot Cas to look forward to (since he can NEVER be the one in the right when he and the brothers disagree over tactics)! I'm so, so excited for this episode! 

Trying to be optimistic.  Maybe he won't be an idiot but will just be at odds with the boys...which I will hate but maybe he won't be stupid?

[Wayward Son]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Trying to be optimistic.  Maybe he won't be an idiot but will just be at odds with the boys...which I will hate but maybe he won't be stupid?

Possibly but at this point in time the shows MO tends to be idiot Cas at best or morally questionable to dark Cas at worst when these disagreements occur. Ugh. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

9 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Uh, we don't know she's sleeping with Ketch. Seriously, cup of sugar! ;)

Unfortunately, it seems she skipped the sugar and went straight for the cream.

[ILoveReading]

9 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Possibly but at this point in time the shows MO tends to be idiot Cas at best or morally questionable to dark Cas at worst when these disagreements occur. Ugh. 

If it helps Cas isn't the only idiot, as it very much looks like Sam and Dean didn't change the locks. 

It seems like they're not even pretending to try with Dean this ep.  It reads like..."Oops fogot someone how can we fit him in"  He gets angry that the colt is missing.  Okay, that will last about 2 minutes at the most before he apologizes to someone.  So what else will be be doing while Cas and Sam argue over Kelly.  Probably drive aimlessly looking for it.

I really hope the case next week is one Sam and Dean find on their own and they're done with the Brits, otherwise I'm going think they've lost as many brain cells as Crowley.  Dabb is making all four main characters look like they've lost whatever smarts they had. 

As for whole stole the colt- my money is either on Ketch or Mary. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by ILoveReading

[DittyDotDot]

Promo for next week:

Looks like an old fashioned creeper of sorts. They'll probably screw it up, but they always do, so in the meantime I'm gonna look forward to a break from the Devil Baby Mama [and Daddy] Drama.

4 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Unfortunately, it seems she skipped the sugar and went straight for the cream.

Nope. Nope. Nope. :: La La La...la la...la:: I can't hear you! ;)

Seriously? She's been working with the guy for a while now...cup o' sugar! That's the only way I'm going to be able to live with it. ;)

9 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I wonder if this is what brings Lady Toni back into the fold.  Her son is approaching school age, and since its seems only 50% of the kids managed to get thought grade school, she may not want him attending Hunter Hogwarts.

She could show up looking for protection.

I think it more likely she'll be leading the troops on the hunter elimination. They'll send her back to clean up Mick's mess that Lady Toni made to begin with. That way the circle can be complete. 

8 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

KELLY MAKES A BOLD CHOICE – Sam (Jared Padalecki) comes up with a way to stop Lucifer’s (Mark Pellegrino) baby but Castiel (Misha Collins) has something else in mind for Kelly (guest star Courtney Ford). Dean (Jensen Ackles) is furious when he finds out someone stole the colt. Kelly makes a bold choice about the baby’s future. Amanda Tapping directed the episode written by Robert Berens & Meredith Glynn (#1219). Original airdate 4/27/2017. (x)

I'm looking forward to this episode, even though I have very little interest in the Devil baby mama drama or the baby daddy. Berens and Glynn should be a nice team up and I'm really curious to see what Amanda Tapping does with the show. Maybe they hit the trifecta? ;)

[Aeryn13]

Quote

It seems like they're not even pretending to try with Dean this ep.  It reads like..."Oops fogot someone how can we fit him in"  He gets angry that the colt is missing.  

Seriously. That sounds even more useless than the last few episodes combined. Kelly Kline`s part sounds more enganging than that. 

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

It seems like they're not even pretending to try with Dean this ep.  It reads like..."Oops fogot someone how can we fit him in"  He gets angry that the colt is missing.  Okay, that will last about 2 minutes at the most before he apologizes to someone.  So what else will be be doing while Cas and Sam argue over Kelly.  Probably drive aimlessly looking for it.

As for whole stole the colt- my money is either on Ketch or Mary. 

 

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Seriously. That sounds even more useless than the last few episodes combined. Kelly Kline`s part sounds more enganging than that. 

To be fair this episode was always advertised as a Castiel rather than Sam or Dean centric episode. 

That is why I'm pretty annoyed by the synopsis! Dabb strung those like myself who are big Cas fans along with empty promises! He promised us three Cas centric episodes and we did not get one. 

1. 12x10 ended up being the Lily Saunders show with a side of Castiel. 

2. 12x12 was an ensemble. 

3. Now 12x19 is going to be the Kelly baby show. Ugh. 

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

 

To be fair this episode was always advertised as a Castiel rather than Sam or Dean centric episode. 

I'm hoping the synopsis is poorly written and hiding the Cas focus.

[rue721]

I kind of loved the promo for next week. The B-movie looking "god" in the basement looked like all kinds of fun.

[SueB]

So:
- The Colt was not hidden from Dean
- Dean did not drive around without purpose and come in at the very end and say "what happened"
- Dean is trying to get a hold of Cas and is starting to get worried
- This was the episode listed as "J2 may be quite light" where honestly I thought it was "moderate" vs "light". The episode focus was clearly more on Mick, the guy who died.

Just to review the bidding.

Next week: Clearly a MOTW.

And the promo monkeys at the CW write the synopsis.  My expectations are honestly very modest for John Bring, the writer.  He's been a writer's assistant for 4 years.  He co-authored "Beyond the Mat". If this is his first solo outing in 4 years then I think it's reasonable to expect it to be pretty must straight-forward MOTW fare.  He's a HUGE show fan so I'd be stunned if there were continuity errors.  I think he's Destiel but since Cas is not in it, we maybe get "where the hell is Cas?". 

[Diane]

[SueB]

Oooh maybe another "Shaving People, Punting Things"???

[Diane]

Just now, SueB said:

Oooh maybe another "Shaving People, Punting Things"???

That is what I am hoping for!!!

[DittyDotDot]

Yeah, we haven't had one in a while. 

[Diane]

[SueB]

I think that's more like a gag reel item. I can see why they wouldn't realease it early. 

[ILoveReading]

I've always wondered from the minute they brought Mary back if the show was going to end up with a scenario where she has to chose between them.  Maybe 22 is about Ketch coming into the bunker and taking Sam and Dean hostage and tells Mary she can save one.

[rue721]

That video is hilarious. I love how they refused to break character during that whole long goodbye.

[Wynne88]

Loved it!

[companionenvy]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Maybe 22 is about Ketch coming into the bunker and taking Sam and Dean hostage and tells Mary she can save one.

Ooh, that's a nasty thought - I hope not!

Fortunately, I don't think it is likely, either, as the show really hasn't done much to set up a "who does mom love more" plot, thank goodness. 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Ooh, that's a nasty thought - I hope not!

Fortunately, I don't think it is likely, either, as the show really hasn't done much to set up a "who does mom love more" plot, thank goodness. 

I've always figured they would do a plot where it was Dean who would have to choose between Mary, Sam or Cas in a do or die situation. I still think something like that will happen.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, rue721 said:

That video is hilarious. I love how they refused to break character during that whole long goodbye.

And the 5 point turn!

[catrox14]

Just now, SueB said:

And the 5 point turn!

I wonder if that's the hilarious thing Shosonnah mentioned in her tweet

[DittyDotDot]

4 hours ago, Diane said:

I hope you don't mind, I'm gonna post this in the SuperNormal thread since it's not a spoiler anymore and so everyone can see it. It's pretty damn funny!