Spoilers With Speculation

[MysteryGuest]

I enjoy Crowley and Rowena, but prefer them interacting with Sam and Dean, so I hope there are a sufficient number of those scenes, as well.  

As for what's coming down the road, I have no idea.  I'm expecting a major confrontation with the BMOL.  I have to assume we'll see Lady Toni again at some point.  After this week's episode, I also assume we'll get to meet the remaining Prince and Princess of Hell.  We have the Mary story to follow, and unfortunately for me, more Lucifer to come.  That's actually quite a bit to deal with in the remaining episodes, allowing for a few stand-alones, so I see plenty of opportunity for all of the main characters to be heavily involved in the resolutions of these storylines.  

As for Jensen and Jared and the need for baby time, I think that's more than fine.  But just because they may not be there during a good portion of the week of shooting doesn't necessarily mean they won't be in the episodes.  It's possible that they just shoot around them, and save their scenes for last.  

[DittyDotDot]

15 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

As for what's coming down the road, I have no idea.  I'm expecting a major confrontation with the BMOL.  I have to assume we'll see Lady Toni again at some point.  After this week's episode, I also assume we'll get to meet the remaining Prince and Princess of Hell.  We have the Mary story to follow, and unfortunately for me, more Lucifer to come.  That's actually quite a bit to deal with in the remaining episodes, allowing for a few stand-alones, so I see plenty of opportunity for all of the main characters to be heavily involved in the resolutions of these storylines.  

I figure the Princes will be tied into the Devil-baby-mama-drama since Ramiel said his sister had taken an interest, but I wonder if the BMoL tied-up might get shifted to S13? Like you said, there's a lot to get to and since they know early they're being renewed, maybe they'll have a confrontation at the end of this season and the resolution next season? 

I can only hope the Devil-baby-mama-drama will get tied up this season, though. The sooner the better on that one, if you ask me.

I hope they're not planning to tie up Mary's storyline this season. I'd like to see her get wise and be a part of the semi-regular cast. I certainly hope they aren't pulling a Grampy Campbell on us and have her choose the bad guys over her boys.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Episode 13- Crowley/Rowena/Gavin

Episode 14- Jensen had at least 5 days filming off after the birth of this twins.  Mark, and Misha also didn't film.  Seems to be focused on Sam and Mary and the BMoL.

Episode 15- Seems Lucifer/Baby devil momma drama focused.  Since its written by Perez, odds are slim that Dean will get anything significant to do.  If he can't even give Dean anything important in an episode with multiple Michael mentions I hope no hope here.  ( Would love to be wrong though).

Episode 16- don't know anything about it.  But Jim Michaels did tweet that script tease about about forwarding to the future. 

Episode 17- Extremely Jensen and Jared light but Jim Beaver spoiled Mark Pellegrino was on set.

Ep 13 could be inoffensive but boring. Eps 14, 15 and 17 sound like I wanna skip-them.

In terms of the script-tease for ep 16, I think that was just Michaels trolling. He posted "the impala speeds into - blocked out word - future" as the final sentence in the script. Like, is the missing word "the" and is it just meant to sound somewhat poetic? That would my guess. I doubt it means anything.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

but I wonder if the BMoL tied-up might get shifted to S13?

When I first read that sentence, I thought it was saying that the BMoL were literally going to be "tied-up" and was thinking "well that's weird, but okay, I can get behind that." The continuation of that was going to be "especially if they are tortured or terrorized in some way," but by then I figured out what you meant by tied up. Heh.

[DittyDotDot]

3 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

When I first read that sentence, I thought it was saying that the BMoL were literally going to be "tied-up" and was thinking "well that's weird, but okay, I can get behind that." The continuation of that was going to be "especially if they are tortured or terrorized in some way," but by then I figured out what you meant by tied up. Heh.

Well, tying them up could also tie-up the storyline. ;)

[MysteryGuest]

9 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I figure the Princes will be tied into the Devil-baby-mama-drama since Ramiel said his sister had taken an interest, but I wonder if the BMoL tied-up might get shifted to S13?

I'd be fine with the BMOL continuing into next season, along wth the Mary storyline, but I'm desperately hoping that Lucifer and his spawn are permanently dealt with this season.  Please, make it so!

[SueB]

13 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Episode 15- Seems Lucifer/Baby devil momma drama focused.  Since its written by Perez, odds are slim that Dean will get anything significant to do.  If he can't even give Dean anything important in an episode with multiple Michael mentions I hope no hope here.  ( Would love to be wrong though).

I disagree with the part in bold. Taking my comment to the episode thread. 

[Wayward Son]

So now that we know Cas' injuries were a result of the Lance of Michael and not cosmic consequences. What do you guys think the consequences could be? And will they affect Cas as he was the one who killed Billie, or the brothers since the deal was theirs in the first place? 

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

So now that we know Cas' injuries were a result of the Lance of Michael and not cosmic consequences. What do you guys think the consequences could be? And will they affect Cas as he was the one who killed Billie, or the brothers since the deal was theirs in the first place? 

I don't know what the cosmic consequences are going to be--or even if there really will be any--but, IMO, there shouldn't be. Sam and Dean didn't break that deal and TBH, neither did Cass. All parties showed up, as per contract, just one party died before they could complete the transaction. Sure, it was Cass who made that one party dead, but he wasn't one of the parties in the contract and the other parties didn't ask him to get involed, so I fail to see how that "broke" the deal.

All this was a long way to say, it could be the deal itself is still in place and another reaper--or someone else--will show up to collect on the deal? 

[goldy]

Looks like Donna will be in episode 18.

 

[catrox14]

YAY!! I LOVE DONNA! Please don't kill her show...

[SueB]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

YAY!! I LOVE DONNA! Please don't kill her show...

Precisely.  Donna is always a delight.

What I wouldn't give to have Donna happy schmue over Mary.  Mary needs to lighten up.  Like, a lot.  

[Wayward Son]

Woohoo! Yay for Donna! I love the lightheartedness she brings to her episodes :)

Edited February 20, 2017 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

Yeah!!! Donna.  I also adore Brianna.  I hope we get some good scenes between her and Dean.

I'm surprised as I thought we wouldn't see her since she did a facebook live stream that she wasn't sure since they released her. 

[catrox14]

46 minutes ago, SueB said:

What I wouldn't give to have Donna happy schmue over Mary.  Mary needs to lighten up.  Like, a lot.  

Not me. Mary doesn't deserve Donna's friendship IMO. That is how angry I am with Mary.  If anything I hope Donna pings on issues with her and the boys and she reads Mary the riot act.

[MysteryGuest]

29 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm surprised as I thought we wouldn't see her since she did a facebook live stream that she wasn't sure since they released her. 

They released her from her contract?  That seems odd.  I wonder what that was all about.  Could they have just wanted to re-negotiate?  I hope they've worked it out because Donna is fun.  If they kill her, I'll be pissed.

[Wayward Son]

Episode 19 will be written by Robert Berens and Meredith Glynn! I've liked his take on Castiel so far so I'm pretty excited and I'm curious to see how she handles him. 

I just hope this episode is actually Castiel centric and it isn't a false tease like Lily Sunders Has No Regrets and Stuck In the Middle (With You). 

For the record I liked both episodes, but I wouldn't consider them overly Cas centric.

[catrox14]

45 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

'm surprised as I thought we wouldn't see her since she did a facebook live stream that she wasn't sure since they released her. 

Wait, what? I don't understand this. That is weird and oddly ...inside baseball so to speak.

[ILoveReading]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Wait, what? I don't understand this. That is weird and oddly ...inside baseball so to speak.

Brianna did a live stream on her Facebook and someone asked her if we would see Donna.  She said she wasn't sure because while she had orginally been contracted for one episode they had released her from that contract. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Episode 19 will be written by Robert Berens and Meredith Glynn!

Both of them? Grumble. I don`t want to lose the chance of another Glynn solo-ep. 

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Both of them? Grumble. I don`t want to lose the chance of another Glynn solo-ep. 

Yep. It was confirmed on Beren's Twitter page. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/robertberens/status/833734458536628226

I am wary of the fact Amanda Tapping is directing. I hope this doesn't mean they'll try and sneak in a Naomi related flashback. I hated the retcon Edlund gave us in The Great Escapist with a passion. 

[Aeryn13]

Well, maybe they split characters among them in terms of writing. Fingers crossed.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Well, maybe they split characters among them in terms of writing. Fingers crossed.

I hope so, with Meredith writing Dean.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Brianna did a live stream on her Facebook and someone asked her if we would see Donna.  She said she wasn't sure because while she had orginally been contracted for one episode they had released her from that contract. 

Oh...I gotcha.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Yep. It was confirmed on Beren's Twitter page. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/robertberens/status/833734458536628226

I am wary of the fact Amanda Tapping is directing. I hope this doesn't mean they'll try and sneak in a Naomi related flashback. I hated the retcon Edlund gave us in The Great Escapist with a passion. 

I wouldn't be worried about Tapping.  Per IMdB she's got 15 directing credits, including a movie.  Her show SyFy Sanctuary (where she was both series lead and EP) did respectably well and made syndication.  She's got juice IMO.  And while they might give some directors a 'shot' (ala the SPN cast members), she's been gone for enough time that she's getting the opportunity just because she's got good directing credentials.  

[goldy]

On location:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wayward Son]

I just saw someone speculating that Mary could end up being a Lucifer vessel later in the season due to how shady they're making her. 

It got me thinking; what if she was a perfect back up vessel? We know from season 5 that the Winchester bloodline is the Michael bloodline, which was why he was able to possess John and Adam. 

What if the Campbell's were the Lucifer bloodline. It would explain why the cupids pushed John and Mary together so they'd produce a kid for each angel and fulfil the whole "as it is in heaven, so shall it be on earth" criteria.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Wayward Son

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I just saw someone speculating that Mary could end up being a Lucifer vessel later in the season due to how shady they're making her. 

It got me thinking; what if she was a perfect back up vessel? We know from season 5 that the Winchester bloodline is the Michael bloodline, which was why he was able to possess John and Adam. 

What if the Campbell's were the Lucifer bloodline. It would explain why the cupids pushed John and Mary together so they'd produce a kid for each angel and fulfil the whole "as it is in heaven, so shall it be on earth" criteria.

Replying in the What?!? thread.

[Wynne88]

Moved from 'Stuck in the Middle'.  Maybe someone else has already come up with this . . .  Regarding the Colt, acquiring it from Ramiel was obviously the point of the whole endeavor.  My theory is that they already have a target in mind, and that they will send Mary after it since she seems to be doing so much of the wet work for them.  So my question is whether Crowley is one of the five who are immune?  For the sake of argument, let's say he's not.  If the BMOL send Mary after him with the Colt, which way are Sam, Dean and Castiel going to jump?  I'm thinking that Dean and Castiel at least will try to protect him in acknowledgment of him saving Cas.  It's just possible that Sam may as well, just going by his look of absolute surprise when he stood up to face him after Crowley broke the lance.  It seemed to me that he got a flash of a different view point in that instant.  Sadly, if this situation actually were to occur, they would probably have him team up with Mary which I will absolutely hate.

[MysteryGuest]

In Abandon All Hope, when Crowley gives the Colt to Sam and Dean, he makes sure there are no bullets in it, so I have to assume that means he's not immune to them.  He threw the bullets at them, and then vanished, so I have to think he can be killed by the Colt.

[SueB]

Mild hint from Sam Smith:
 

Quote

Samantha SmithVerified account‏@SamSmithTweets  32m32 minutes ago

 

Samantha Smith Retweeted ptxfan

Confusing, ain't it? #HaveALittleFaith

 

ptxfan@crookedparadise

Quote

@SamSmithTweets you're a wonderful actress, and I really want to like your character, but...what in the world is Mary doing??? #Colt #BMOL https://twitter.com/WinFamBusiness/status/834148014902108160 …

 

I imagine she's seeing a lot of flak.  This is not much of a spoiler but clearly the actress feels like there is a plan in place.  Whether or not we like it is another story but the #HaveALittleFaith suggests it is pro-Mary versus what we just saw last week.

I remain convinced that Mary is acting like a S1-3 Winchester and taking a huge risk to keep her boys safe.  And she's missing the point -- that they just want her, not safety.

[Demented Daisy]

Is it possible that Mary is running a long con?  She knows what the BMoL (at least one of them) did to Sam, that another beat the crap out of Dean and Cas, that they sent her into a mission without all the details -- does she seem like the kind of mom that watches her kids in pain and danger and just says, "Yep, okay, here you go."  Doesn't make sense.

Maybe all of this is to get close enough to the inside to take the suckers out.  *shrug*  

[DittyDotDot]

Well, I did postulate that Mary may have pulled a John Winchester and given the BMoL a fake Colt...?

Like I said in the episode thread, I think she feels like she's in control of the situation on some level, so it's very possible she's got a whole other plan in mind. I really don't know right now.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, oh, oh...what if Sam and Dean are in on Mary's plan?

What I mean is, what if Sam and Dean don't want other hunters to get involved with the BMoL, so they're keeping up an appearance they don't trust them, but at the same time are working with Mary to get her on the inside in order to bring them down?

It does shine a different light on Dean blowing off Cass's question about what Ramiel meant by someone stealing from him. And it would make more sense why Sam and Dean didn't ask any many questions about the hunt ahead of time. 

Eh, I know, I know...but a girl can hope, right? ;)

[Geordiegirl1967]

16 hours ago, Wynne88 said:

 I'm thinking that Dean and Castiel at least will try to protect him in acknowledgment of him saving Cas

Why would Dean and Cas care more about Crowley saving Cas than Sam would? This doesn't make sense to me. It implies that Sam cares less about Cas which I don't think is true.

16 hours ago, Wynne88 said:

It's just possible that Sam may as well, just going by his look of absolute surprise when he stood up to face him after Crowley broke the lance.  It seemed to me that he got a flash of a different view point in that instant.

What different viewpoint? What view do you think he had before this?

16 hours ago, Wynne88 said:

Sadly, if this situation actually were to occur, they would probably have him team up with Mary which I will absolutely hate.

Do you mean Sam? If so why would they pair him up with Mary? If Dean and Sam don't want Crowley killed by BMoL they will do something about it together.

I actually think this would be an odd situation because the writers haven't decided what we or D&S are supposed to think about Crowley. Yes he has helped them but only when it also helped him. And he has done A LOT of evil things; kidnapped Lisa and Ben, Had Lisa possessed, killed Sarah and others they had previously saved, tried to kill Jodie, killed all the prophets, tortured Kevin, killed his girlfriend (I think), kidnapped his mum and countless other evil things. He is NOT their friend. Except that the writers keep implying that he is. Crowley is not working for me at the moment. If they had at some point acknowledged that Sam almost curing him in a8 changed him in some way - but they never did.

38 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Oh, oh, oh...what if Sam and Dean are in on Mary's plan?

They can't have been in on the plan to steal from Ramiel or Mary wouldn't have needed the other hunter guy as cover.

[ahrtee]

My first theory was that Mary starting working with the BMoL in order to keep her boys safe (that is, "a world without supernatural dangers.")  I could see her wanting to get them out of hunting.  She had her meeting with Mr. Ketch right after they barely managed to escape death-by-Billie, when one of them *would* have died because of those "supernatural dangers".  But then there would be no reason for her *not* to use the Colt on Ramiel in order to save them, which brings me to my next theory:  she's being blackmailed by the BMoL.  Probably because they told her about Sam's demon blood and maybe Dean's stint as a demon, and threatened to kill them immediately as "supernatural creatures" themselves, unless she works with them.  She certainly didn't seem happy to be working with them.  

She knows that if she tells Sam and Dean about the blackmail that they'll do something dangerous/stupid, and so she had to trust that they could find a way out of the present danger by themselves (which they did, albeit with outside help) in order to keep the Colt secret.  But I also think that someone (probably Cas, but maybe Dean, because he seemed a little suspicious towards the end of the ep) was spying on the meeting, and everything is going to come out soon, with a lot of angst incoming.

[DittyDotDot]

11 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

They can't have been in on the plan to steal from Ramiel or Mary wouldn't have needed the other hunter guy as cover.

Actually, if Sam and Dean are trying to keep up appearances that they won't deal with the BMoL, then it makes a lot of sense. It depends how deep undercover this operation is needed to be?

I'm sure it's most-likely more straight forward than my wild ass spec, but I do like to have my more complex delusions from time to time. ;)

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Actually, if Sam and Dean are trying to keep up appearances that they won't deal with the BMoL, then it makes a lot of sense. It depends how deep undercover this operation is needed to be?

I'm sure it's most-likely more straight forward than my wild ass spec, but I do like to have my more complex delusions from time to time. ;)

I speculated in the episode thread that maybe Dean was in cahoots with Mary unbeknownst to Sam but what would be the point of them not including him unless Dean and Mary decide to give Sam a chance at a regular life.

I could buy a scenario where the BMoL have made separate deals with each Winchester unbeknownst to the others, each Winchester having a separate motivation for the individual deal. That makes  none worse nor better than the other. To that end maybe Cas & Crowley will team up again, as foreshadowed by their hunt for Lucifer in the first part of the, but this time it's to save all 3 Winchesters, and one of the two dies in the process.

[Geordiegirl1967]

16 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Actually, if Sam and Dean are trying to keep up appearances that they won't deal with the BMoL, then it makes a lot of sense. It depends how deep undercover this operation is needed to be?

But he was there to give a reason to the boys why Mary was on this case, so that they didn't ask questions about where she got her intel. So I'm not sure who they'd be keeping up appearances for.

What I can totally buy is that Mary is playing the BMoL. I think her end game is for her boys. I think she wants them to be in a safer world and she thinks she can use the BMoL to get that for them. She is deceiving them but I believe her motives are good.

[Wynne88]

Quote

Why would Dean and Cas care more about Crowley saving Cas than Sam would? This doesn't make sense to me. It implies that Sam cares less about Cas which I don't think is true.

Quote

What different viewpoint? What view do you think he had before this?

I agree that Sam cares a lot for Cas and considers him a friend.  I just think that his dislike of Crowley has been strong enough in the past to possibly out-weigh that.  Crowley killed Sarah, as well as others they had saved; put Dean in position to take the Mark of Cain, and turned his brother into a demon.  I don't think Sam would mind at all seeing him dead, unless his save of Cas has changed his mind.  Sam seems to forgive people for what they've done to him, but I am guessing he holds stronger grudges against those who hurt people he loves.  (Mind you, I did say I guessed!)

Quote

If so why would they pair him up with Mary? If Dean and Sam don't want Crowley killed by BMoL they will do something about it together.

Simply because Mary obviously hates Crowley ("Touch me and I'll kill you"), and I believe Sam does as well (see above reasoning).  I think Dean's got a more complicated relationship with him, perhaps because he blames himself for taking the Mark of Cain instead of blaming Crowley.  I don't know; it's totally all speculation.

[Geordiegirl1967]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I speculated in the episode thread that maybe Dean was in cahoots with Mary unbeknownst to Sam but what would be the point of them not including him unless Dean and Mary decide to give Sam a chance at a regular life.

Why would Dean do that? They are in a place now where they have (hopefully) learned to be honest with each other and avoid the lying and going behind each others backs. And anyway why would Dean think Sam would disagree? Sam is by far the more pragmatic / shades of grey guy of the 2. 

[Geordiegirl1967]

1 minute ago, Wynne88 said:

Crowley killed Sarah, as well as others they had saved; put Dean in position to take the Mark of Cain, and turned his brother into a demon.  I don't think Sam would mind at all seeing him dead, unless his save of Cas has changed his mind.  

All true. I just don't necessarily buy that Sam feels that differently about Crowley than Dean does. After all Crowley ruined Lisa and Ben's lives (until Cas mindwiped them) and Dean's relationship with them. And he tricked him into becoming Demon Dean. I have never bought the alleged Dean/Crowley 'bromance'. Now Cas and Crowley are funny together. Them road tripping around irritating each other is endlessly entertaining. 

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

But he was there to give a reason to the boys why Mary was on this case, so that they didn't ask questions about where she got her intel. So I'm not sure who they'd be keeping up appearances for.

Like I said, Sam and Dean would be keeping up appearances in front of other hunters. They wouldn't want them to suddenly decide that they should get into bed with the BMoL just because the Winchesters seem to think they're trustworthy. So they'd want Wally to still be suspicious of them--which he was--and spread that along to other hunters. Basically, they don't want other hunters to know they know what Mary is really up to, so they're keeping the BMoL at arms length, while Mary is trying to appear she's working behind Sam and Dean's back. 

It would require a whole lot more cunning and layered storytelling to pull off something like this than the show is generally equipped to handle. But it is fun to speculate and I generally like to have fun, so... . 

Edited February 22, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Myrelle]

I think she's going it all alone just like her hubs always did, and she's probably going to die for one of them by the end of the season and that will be her "redemption"-no matter what she does before then. It's the predictable outcome and more often than not that's the road that these writers usually take. The only question for me is will she talk to her sons about all the stuff that happened between each of them and their father and will she feel any sympathy for the things that each of them lost precisely because of the original secrets and lies that she took with her the first time that she died.

The secrets and lies that she's telling now are only a part of the legacy of secret-keeping and lying that she, herself, started within the Winchester family dynamic, and that's what she should be feeling the most guilt from IMO; she should feel bad about that, IMO-not about them becoming hunters-because they have accepted that they are and were always meant to be hunters and(in Dean's case, for sure), are even very proud of it and enjoy the life. It should be a springboard into a part of why they actually became hunters in the first place and why those secrets and lies were actually an aid to both them(and John) becoming hunters, and far from the detriment that she'd likely hoped they would be to that life.

This is what I was hoping to see come out of Mary's resurrection-not this coldness that won't even allow her to be in their vicinity except when she needs their help on a hunt or when she runs into them at one of her next old friend's funeral. She has a lot of explaining to do and I really hope that the brothers possibly taking her coldness and distance as rejection is not made light of by these writers-especially because of the childhoods that they endured, again predominantly because of all her original secrets and lies. And I truly hope that both brothers will individually be allowed to have talks with her concerning the secrets and lies because while they were each deeply affected by them, they were also, in some ways, very differently affected by them, too.

I want to like her. I've wanted to like her from the get-go, but Mary Sue Winchester Superhunter was not what I wanted to see more than anything, and it's starting to feel like that's all that we might be getting-and although we know that there's a Sam/Mary episode coming up soon, that might help her cause...well, see my last sentence in the second to last paragraph. I don't want Dean's parentification and abandonment issues swept under the carpet again, while we get plenty of dialogue on how Mary wronged Sam, and only Sam, through her secrets and lies.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Myrelle

[Geordiegirl1967]

4 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I want to like her. I've wanted to like her from the get-go, but Mary Sue Winchester Superhunter was not what I wanted to see more than anything, and it's starting to feel like that's all that we might be getting

I agree, but she hasn't been the character either we or the boys expected her to be. The super hunter thing is irritating. Obviously she was brought up in the life and was a good hunter before she met John. But at the very least, having been out of hunting for years, then dead for many more years, she'd be rusty. But not a bit of it. 

They played a little with what I thought would be the most interesting aspect of her character i.e. the fish out of water, 1970s woman in a 2017 world, stuff ('lets call the internet' etc) but she has adapted far too quickly. And the other part of it that we should be focusing on is her feelings about her boys and their feelings about her. They should be talking to her, she should be maybe confiding in Cas or Jodie, Dean and Sam should be taking to each other. But instead we have her working with the BMoL behind their backs and making them look like beginners at hunting in comparison with her. It isn't working for me. And, like you, I so wanted to like her.

9 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I don't want Dean's parentification and abandonment issues swept under the carpet again, while we get plenty of dialogue on how Mary wronged Sam, and only Sam, through her secrets and lies.

Why would you assume that is what will happen? So far we know far more about how Dean feels about his mum than about how Sam feels. But actually we don't know enough about how any of them feel. After the Baby episode, when we saw the boys just being together and talking a lot of fans and the Js themselves were saying 'these scenes are great. Why don't we do more of that?'. But the writers don't seem to have learned that lesson.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Why would Dean do that? They are in a place now where they have (hopefully) learned to be honest with each other and avoid the lying and going behind each others backs. And anyway why would Dean think Sam would disagree? Sam is by far the more pragmatic / shades of grey guy of the 2. 

Well i already said it doesn't make sense but   reasons why Dean would do it are as follows '

The other thing I spec'd in the episode thread was Mary being shown by  the BMoL they can arrange for her to have never made a deal for John. That they could send her back in time  and use  the Colt to  kill Azazel before he comes for her and John. .

Maybe Mary appealed to Dean to help her. If the closed loop of Dean being sent back in time in S3 is why Azazel got Mary's scent then he might agree to it to have stopped that from happening.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

21 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

The secrets and lies that she's telling now are only a part of the legacy of secret-keeping and lying that she, herself, started within the Winchester family dynamic,

I would have to say on the Winchester side, it started with Henry.  If he'd have been honest with the wife and son he left behind, then John would have grown up knowing he was a Man of Letters.  That probably would have changed a lot of the outcome of Sam and Dean's lives growing up.  Maybe it wouldn't have saved Mary, but it probably would have helped John search for Azazel better/more efficiently.  

[Geordiegirl1967]

Sneak peek is out. Is this the right place for it?

http://www.tvinsider.com/126984/supernatural-preview-rowena-meets-grandson-gavin/

A question occurs...do Sam and Dean even know Gavin is alive? Who was it let him stay in the future? I thought it was Crowley when he was supposed to put him back on the ship to correct the natural order. I thought he lied to S&D about it. Am I misremembering?

Edited February 22, 2017 by Geordiegirl1967

[Geordiegirl1967]

43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The other thing I spec'd in the episode thread was Mary being shown by  the BMoL they can arrange for her to have never made a deal for John. That they could send her back in time  and use  the Colt to  kill Azazel before he comes for her and John. .

Maybe Mary appealed to Dean to help her. If the closed loop of Dean being sent back in time in S3 is why Azazel got Mary's scent then he might agree to it to have stopped that from happening.

Mary might think that would work but we know it can't because it would change everything that has ever happened on the show. I think she would undo it all if she could though.

[Wayward Son]

It could be fun if Mary were to succeed (temporarily) and we were treated to a What Is and What Should Never Be Part II.