Spoilers With Speculation

[Aeryn13]

I didn`t really like the Carver years  but I`ll take him over Stu-fanfiction-Dabb any day and twice on Sunday. If Dabb could be jettisoned, I`d cheer. 

But if they really switched showrunners, I would have welcomed some fresh blood for a change. Normally that would be less than advisable for an established show but here I think it could do good. 

In terms of the current story, it would be hard work to salvage it for anyone. So far the Brit!MOL sucked, Mary should have stayed dead and even moar Lucifer is a disaster.   

[Diane]

[catrox14]

Interesting^^^^

So. Maybe the producers credits are episode specific?

[DittyDotDot]

Or perhaps the cover sheet was just a mistake? It could be someone pulled up an old sheet for a template--like Red Meat from last year with Nina Lopez-Corrado directing (Singer was credited as an executive consultant)--but forgot to change a couple things? People have been known to make mistakes and I'd be pretty surprised they changed showrunners mid-stream without announcing it.

Plus, I'd be surprised they would totally demote Dabb at this point since they most-likely have the rest of the season mapped out and a good chunk of it in various stages of production by now. I'd think if Carver was coming back mid-season it would be more likely they would share duties.

However, I'm not so sure Carver would want to come back at this point anyway. I got the distinct impression he had already disengaged himself long before he got the green light on Frequency. It seems to me he may not have been prepared for the level of divide or the vociferousness of this fandom. But, what do I know?

I'm not fond of Carver or what he did with the show, but I haven't been wowed by Dabb yet either. But, I'm prepared to give Dabb a little more leeway and see if he can pull it all together in the back half of the season. Carver has already proven to me what he can and can't do, so I don't need to see him show me it again.

Edited January 20, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

6 hours ago, mertensia said:

Crowley's still alive because he's a survivor and (mostly) can play the boys like fiddles.

I agree with that - mostly. I didn't say that Crowley should be dead necessarily - because as you say: survivor - I said that he deserves to be dead. Slight difference there. ; ) And I love that Sam keeps on trying, because Sam trying to kill Crowley will never not be amusing for me.

[catrox14]

52 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Or perhaps the cover sheet was just a mistake? It could be someone pulled up an old sheet for a template--like Red Meat from last year with Nina Lopez-Corrado directing (Singer was credited as an executive consultant)--but forgot to change a couple things? People have been known to make mistakes and I'd be pretty surprised they changed showrunners mid-stream without announcing it.

They were altering things BTS  mid stream last season before they officially announced the change to Dabb at the end of the season. So who knows.

Edited January 20, 2017 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Jim Michaels himself tweeted it. They were altering things mid stream last season before they officially announced the change to Dabb at the end of the season.

Yes, I understood Michaels tweeted a picture of the cover sheet, but not sure that means anything more than he tweeted a picture of a cover sheet.

They altered things behind the scenes last season, but we were all aware of those changes even if the official credits said differently. I'm just saying, I'd be surprised this would be the first we'd heard of it--officially or not--if Carver was indeed coming back to the show. I'm not saying it's implausible, just that I'd be surprised is all.

I'm more inclined to think that sheet was a mistake since that cover sheet reads like something from last season when Singer was credited as an executive consultant and Carver was still credited as an executive producer. Like I said, I wouldn't at all be surprised if some staffer pulled up the one from last season with Nina Lopez-Corrado as a template and just forgot to change Dabb's name for Carver and change Singer's credit.

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

They altered things behind the scenes last season, but we were all aware of those changes even if the official credits said differently. I'm just saying, I'd be surprised this would be the first we'd heard of it--officially or not--if Carver was indeed coming back to the show. I'm not saying it's implausible, just that I'd be surprised is all

I'm not dismissing what you are saying. Sure Michaels might not have noticed a mistake.

I'm not saying it wasn't a mistake just there is precedent for changes to happen that aren't necessarily apparent to the more casual viewer vs the spoiler / BTS hounds like some of us. 

Carver left once before and returned. I don't think it would be surprising if he returned.  I didn't say Dabb was being demoted. I'm saying IF Carver came back maybe Dabb was choosing to step back.

Edited January 20, 2017 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not saying it wasn't a mistake just there is precedent for changes to happen that aren't necessarily apparent to the more casual viewer vs the spoiler / BTS hounds like some of us.

But, who in that thread would be one of those?

[catrox14]

I don't understand your question

[goldy]

Supernatural’s ‘Regarding Dean’ airs February 9 (episode synopsis):

http://winchesterbros.com/?p=17031

“Regarding Dean” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, DLV) (HDTV)

DEAN LOSES HIS MEMORY – Sam (Jared Padalecki) enlists Rowena’s (guest star Ruth Connell) help to track down an old world, powerful family of witches after Dean (Jensen Ackles) gets hit by a spell that is rapidly erasing his memory. John Badham directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1211). Original airdate 2/9/2017.

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, goldy said:

Supernatural’s ‘Regarding Dean’ airs February 9 (episode synopsis):

http://winchesterbros.com/?p=17031

“Regarding Dean” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, DLV) (HDTV)

DEAN LOSES HIS MEMORY – Sam (Jared Padalecki) enlists Rowena’s (guest star Ruth Connell) help to track down an old world, powerful family of witches after Dean (Jensen Ackles) gets hit by a spell that is rapidly erasing his memory. John Badham directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1211). Original airdate 2/9/2017.

So I want to know what circumstance leaves Dean vulnerable to a spell?

[SueB]

Dean is always vulnerable to spell now that the Mark is gone. In fact he was vulnerable to the de-aging spell WITH the Mark. 

[Aeryn13]

I just hope it`s not again for some silly or mean-spirited reason like he is clumsy/cocky and gets hit by a spell or he is a "dick" and gets hit by a spell. 

Not feeling the description. I`m not too keen on making probably the only Dean-ep in ages like Yellow Fever since I hate humiliation comedy like that and the dramatic parts were only so-so as well but this makes it sound like Dean is only the McGuffin of the ep.

The writer is the one from the Hitler episode, right? I thought overall her writing is unppolished but at least I thought she liked the character in that episode so there is that.   

[catrox14]

34 minutes ago, SueB said:

Dean is always vulnerable to spell now that the Mark is gone. In fact he was vulnerable to the de-aging spell WITH the Mark. 

? I wasn't implying otherwise. I want to know what predicament Dean finds himself in that has a witch sending a spell his way, why is he the target.

[SueB]

54 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

? I wasn't implying otherwise. I want to know what predicament Dean finds himself in that has a witch sending a spell his way, why is he the target.

Oh.  Well, I was confused.  No clue.   

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

Oh.  Well, I was confused.  No clue.   

 

I almost find it more interesting why Dean gets hit with the spell. Like does he hook up with some chick that turns out to be a witch? Does he seek to be free of a memory and seeks out a witch and it goes awry? Is Dean off working a case alone? Does Lily Sunder hex him if he's trying to help Cas since that is the episode preceding"Regarding Dean"? Who wants Dean to lose his memory? Is it a random side effect of something else?

[catrox14]

[goldy]

[catrox14]

Dean: "My name is Dean Winchester. Sam is my brother. Mary Winchester is my Mom...and Cas...Cas is.. my best friend".

I'm fine....

Cas: "This world needs you. It needs every last Winchester it can get and I will not let you die. I won't let any of you die."

Edited January 20, 2017 by catrox14

[ahrtee]

Hmmm...so I assume if the BMoL are planning to rid the world of anything even vaguely supernatural, then Sam is on their list, too? They don't seem to be the forgiving type, as in "oh, that ended years ago."  And we all know how well that will go over with Dean.....

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Hmmm...so I assume if the BMoL are planning to rid the world of anything even vaguely supernatural, then Sam is on their list, too? They don't seem to be the forgiving type, as in "oh, that ended years ago."  And we all know how well that will go over with Dean.....

Theoretically, that should include Dean too since he was a demon and had the Mark of Cain

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

 

I almost find it more interesting why Dean gets hit with the spell. Like does he hook up with some chick that turns out to be a witch? Does he seek to be free of a memory and seeks out a witch and it goes awry? Is Dean off working a case alone? Does Lily Sunder hex him if he's trying to help Cas since that is the episode preceding"Regarding Dean"? Who wants Dean to lose his memory? Is it a random side effect of something else?

I actually wrote that story about 5 years ago.  Never posted it anywhere, though, so I can't complain about stealing ideas!  

[MysteryGuest]

I think maybe that will be the undoing of the BMOL.   They've made monster killing so impersonal, if you will, that they allow for no gray area.  Sam and Dean have learned that not all monsters are bad...Benny, Lenore, Garth, to name a few.   I'm sure Sam, Dean and possibly even Cas would be on the BMOL's radar as potential monsters that need to be eliminated.  Not to mention Crowley, Rowena, etc.  It could get interesting.

I'm looking forward to the next few episodes to see if they can improve on the first portion of the season.  I'm ok with the Mary story and even the BMOL, but they have to lessen the amount of Lucifer episodes if this season is going to work for me as a whole.  

I want them to find some satisfying resolution for Mary, whether it means she dies again, willingly, or ultimately stays as a regular.  I think I could deal with that, though not in every episode.  I want the BMOL to get their comeuppance in a big way, and am looking forward to that.  If they wimp out and just slowly convert them all to their way of thinking, it won't be nearly as satisfying as taking them down a few pegs.  

And I want more scary MOTW episodes.  I've been watching a few of the stand alone episodes from the early seasons, and they were genuinely creepy.  I watched Family Remains the other night, and while not one of my favorite episodes, it was pretty damn effective.  They just don't write enough of those episodes anymore, and I miss them.

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I actually wrote that story about 5 years ago.  Never posted it anywhere, though, so I can't complain about stealing ideas!  

Which part? Dean losing his memory in general?

[ahrtee]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Which part? Dean losing his memory in general?

Actually, he woke up one morning with his last 10 years of memories just gone.  Otherwise, he was pretty much the old Dean, with all his snark and humor.  He thought Sam was still at Stanford, and had to be told about dad's death and angels.  They had to figure out who, how and why, and also the question (for Sam, at least) whether he really *wanted* Dean to get back his memories of all those horrible years--including hell, and Ruby, and everything bad that had happened.

I can send the story to anyone who wants to read it.  Just pm your email.   

[catrox14]

oh wow. that sounds good

[bearcatfan]

8 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I agree with that - mostly. I didn't say that Crowley should be dead necessarily - because as you say: survivor - I said that he deserves to be dead. Slight difference there. ; ) And I love that Sam keeps on trying, because Sam trying to kill Crowley will never not be amusing for me.

At this point they should probably make some sort of deal where Crowley leaves the boys alone because they are assets as he said and Sam and Dean leave Crowley alone because he's a known and anyone taking over could be worse. Since it's obvious that they aren't going to kill Crowley they should explain why. Of course that would mean that Sam would have to stop trying to kill Crowley.

[SueB]

13 minutes ago, bearcatfan said:

At this point they should probably make some sort of deal where Crowley leaves the boys alone because they are assets as he said and Sam and Dean leave Crowley alone because he's a known and anyone taking over could be worse. Since it's obvious that they aren't going to kill Crowley they should explain why. Of course that would mean that Sam would have to stop trying to kill Crowley.

Sam said as much (once), 'you're alive because Abbadon is worse than you' equivalent.  They won't help him regain his throne but they'd rather have him than a lot.  Sam obviously wants him dead but he can't argue with 'the devil you know'.  And since his attempt on Crowley, Crowley helped remove the Mark, stole Amara but helped Sam get to Lucifer in a ultimately unsuccessful attempt to kill Amara, brought the demon troops to attack Amara, and helped put Luicifer back. Even Sam would have to admire that Crowley helped (even if his motivation was to help himself, he DID HELP). 

 

Loved the new video. Have to watch it a dozen times to really squeze all the good bits out but I'm pumped for next werk's ep. 

[AwesomO4000]

10 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m not too keen on making probably the only Dean-ep in ages like Yellow Fever

I'm not sure what you mean by "In ages." I agree we had a few more Sam episodes last season, but it had been a long time since we had a Sam episode - unless you count "Book of the Damned," but that had some Den in it also. I'd probably say "Mother's Little Helper" back in season 9, and that still had a bunch of Henry background and Abadon's host background, so not really even a Sam episode either. And before that probably not since maybe "Repo Man?" if that counts. But that wasn't a truly "Sam" episode like say "Mystery Spot."

More recently Dean did have "About A Boy." "The Vessel" was also Dean heavy, and "Baby," too was much more Dean heavy than Sam heavy. Sam was even gone for big chunks of it with his action happening offscreen."Black" might also count. And from season 9 there was "Bad Boys."

15 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I didn`t really like the Carver years  but I`ll take him over Stu-fanfiction-Dabb any day and twice on Sunday. If Dabb could be jettisoned, I`d cheer. 

 "Alpha and Omega" was fairly positive for Dean, I thought..

Edited January 21, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[Demented Daisy]

Quote

"This world needs you. It needs every last Winchester it can get"

Hey, does that mean someone is planning on rescuing Adam from the cage?  ;-)

In all honesty, I would appreciate one little line.  Anything, really, to show that his sacrifice, however misguided, did not damn him to an eternity of torment.

[Aeryn13]

I mean I can`t remember the last one. Not last Season (The Vessel was a red herring concerning Dean), logic tells me there should have been one in Season 10 considering the storyline, was About a Boy S9 or S 10? So, to me it`s been years and this sounds like a letdown. I don`t care for the comedy aspect and the description makes it sound Sam-centric after all. So, meh. Maybe it`s better than it sounds so far.

And maybe some positive spoiler comes along before the Finale. At least this new vid was okay.   

Quote

"Alpha and Omega" was fairly positive for Dean, I thought..

It was an "I`ll have to make due because I won`t get anything better" episode for me. Which, granted, is high end for Dabb when it comes to Dean but overall meh.

Oh well, it sounds like it was probably just a mix-up and Dabb is still very much in charge. He is gonna write the mid-Season Opener so that is sucking balls already. If only he would leave Dean alone and at least use another character, either recurring or guest stars, for his fanfic propping, then the eps would at least only suck 50 %.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

13 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Hmmm...so I assume if the BMoL are planning to rid the world of anything even vaguely supernatural, then Sam is on their list, too? They don't seem to be the forgiving type, as in "oh, that ended years ago."  And we all know how well that will go over with Dean.....

 

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Theoretically, that should include Dean too since he was a demon and had the Mark of Cain

I think someone else mentioned this awhile back ago...but wonder if this also includes Mary, since "back from the dead" ain't exactly normal...  And neither Dean nor Sam will like that too much.

[AwesomO4000]

19 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

logic tells me there should have been one in Season 10 considering the storyline, was About a Boy S9 or S 10?

"About A Boy" was midseason 10, a couple episodes after the break. "Black" was the beginning of season 10. "Bad Boys" was the one from season 9. For me, "Baby" was probably the most Dean-centric episode from season 11, because a lot of the action centered on Dean with long stretches of only Dean in the story - well and the bad guys and Castiel on the phone. Although I will admit that that one was an action episode rather than the other more character driven ones that I mentioned above.

Sam only had 1 1/2 Sam episodes in at least 3 seasons (and one of those episodes was crap, imo) before season 11 though, so I thought it was time.

Just as now it's time for a Dean one again, so I do hope that this is a good Dean episode.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Just as now it's time for a Dean one again, so I do hope that this is a good Dean episode.

I`d hope so, too, but realistically I don`t expect one in the show`s remaining run, however long that might be. 

[shang yiet]

Usually we get just one truly Samcentric episode per season and so far, no sign of one this season. I think the Mary story is skewing Deancentric already and this after the Deancentric Amara story.

[SueB]

4 hours ago, shang yiet said:

Usually we get just one truly Samcentric episode per season and so far, no sign of one this season. I think the Mary story is skewing Deancentric already and this after the Deancentric Amara story.

 

I think this is a fair assessment.  I love both boys but IMO Dean gets a lot of the heavy lifting.  Based purely on filming schedule, I think we may be a little Dean-light in EP 14 & 15.  Jared showed up to Vancouver days before Jensen and Jared stayed later this past week.  

From: http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/147242139088/supernatural-season-12-spoiler-sheet

Quote

Episode 12x14 

Title: The Raid

Written by: Robert Berens

Director:  John MacCarthy

Filming Dates: January 3 - January 12 (Two week hiatus for holidays plus new years observed)

Airdate: March 2

Castiel? No. Crowley? No.

Guest stars: Samantha Smith (Mary Winchester)

Other Spoilers/info (newest to oldest):

Some scenes may happen in a bowling alley?

Mary wields a machete at some point

There maybe a mini hiatus after the episode, there’s usually one in March

My episode 12x14 tag.

Episode 12x15 (Currently shooting)

Title: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell

Written by: Davy Perez

Director:  Nina Lopez Corrado

Filming Dates: January 13 - January 24

Airdate: March 9

Castiel? Yes. Crowley? Possibly.

Guest stars: Mark Pellegrino (Lucifer), Lisa Berry (Billie)?

Other Spoilers/info (newest to oldest):

Jacksonville Con to occur during filming

Usually there is a hiatus after episode 15 or 14

3

I'll be surprised if any other episode is (potentially) affected by the babies.  And Jared is going to be taking off at the very end of the season for his new child. 

Personally, I think it's kinda smart to have written these two a little light on Dean (IF that is in fact what has happened).  Twins in a woman over 35 is not "ho-hum".  It's just not.  It's hard on the woman's body and twins have more potential for complications.  Having birthed two babies at age 28 and 30, I can tell you that even the two years between 28 and 30 made a difference.  Recovery time was slower for me with #2.  Daneel could be super-fit but there's more uncertainty.  And THANKFULLY, it appears it all worked out fabulously.  But these scripts were written months ago.  If they pre-planned a little slack, then they were SMART.  I'm thinking they should pre-plan a little slack for Jared when Gen is due.  It's a little difficult with it being the end of the season.  And she may be due literally the last two weeks of filming so they may do some front loading for him.  If any case, he's got plenty of margin post the birth in case there are any issues. 

[Wynne88]

Do they finish filming in March?  For some reason, I thought they went well into April.

[DittyDotDot]

I believe it's usually early- to mid-April.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Wynne88 said:

Do they finish filming in March?  For some reason, I thought they went well into April.

 

44 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I believe it's usually early- to mid-April.

You know, it just occurred to me -- maybe Jensen didn't go back late-- maybe Jared went early?  I have to compare with last year.  They were definitely filming to mid April last year. 

[DittyDotDot]

TBH, I don't think we'll be in for Dean-light episodes. I think they probably are planning to split Dean and Sam up more--which I've been saying for years they should do in order to give Jared and Jensen more time off--and probably also optimized Jensen's shooting schedule and have worked everyone else's schedule around that for a couple episodes.

Edited January 22, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

 I think it is appropriate for Dean to have more of the Mary story because of his 4 years of childhood memories with her as a child whereas Sam has no memories. Yet the Mary story has been so woefully underbaked that it's not really reflecting much for either brother.

Dean got the initial emotional beats when he first sees her. Sam  got emotional beats but those were delayed because the reunion was written to occur when Sam had been shot, kidnapped, tortured and it was all mixed up with Mol plot. I though Sam and a powerful  emotional moment where he got to tell Mary that having her there filled in the biggest blank. Mary was forgiven by Sam essentially and IMO it was healing bonding moment juxtaposed with Dean sitting in the kitchen floor alone drinking  beer and looking at photos because his childhood memories were being shattered.  I think Sam had additional emotional beats when Mary left and Dean was left further disappointed. And angry.  It was poorly followed up with in the Magda episode because Dean was barely in the episode but he did get to state clearly his issues. Sam had the bulk of the plot whilst Dean had the angst but Sam certainly has the emotional stuff in defense of Mary vs Dean's anger.

[catrox14]

Mary will have  something to do but I want to see the issues Dean had with her leaving to be further addressed beyond the brief scene IN the Asa Fox ep, But I doubt it will happen.

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Looks like they didn't forget the cannoli.  ;)

[catrox14]

[Demented Daisy]

So... looks like Sam and Dean will be escaping tonight.  What do we think?  Cas and Mary will get help from Mr. Ketch and the BMoL?  Anyone expecting any surprises, or should it be fairly straightforward?

And will the Secret Service and everyone else forget about Sam and Dean Winchester?

[Diane]

[Demented Daisy]

Well, that doesn't bode well....