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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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smree

smree

I've been wondering if we're heading for a 'Mark of Cain' carrier team up to defeat the darkness. In that the messages from the cage to Sam will eventually lead him to having to be Lucifer's meat suit again. That the only way to defeat/lock up the darkness will be Sam as Lucifer, Dean and maybe Cain teaming up.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Hopefully we'll get Jodi, and not just a lot of Claire and/or Alex with Jodi in the background. I'm more interested in Jodi than Claire and/or Alex. It might be though that this is a Castiel storyline with Claire more than a Dean/Sam storyline.

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7kstar

7kstar

Okay we have Jensen saying the "Darkness" isn't evil but everyone else saying it is.  So what does that mean about Dean.  Does he feel he has a way to maybe reach her and help her change her ways?

 

I admit I'm tired of Cas and the boys not working together.  Finding a reason to separate them isn't interesting anymore.  Seeing them together is.  I really wish this show wouldn't be so predictable.  Why can't they see doing the same ol' thing isn't working, doesn't scare us or surprise us.  I guess they forget we aren't all 12 year old's.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

I think Dean wants a way of stopping Amara without ending Amara. And maybe he doesn't understand this consciously. But if ANYONE is susceptible to 'God is an asshole' argument that Amara has found, it's Dean. Dean has never been down with God's hands-off policy. Yet Dean is also a massive champion of Free Will. So he seems to feel God should intervene but that it doesn't cause a free will conflict. And Dean's also been pretty clear that all the Winchesters have gotten a raw deal from God. Been used by Gos, the Anfels, Lucifed, et al. for their own purposes. And that's another thing that really pisses Dean off.

So, I think Dean is 1) being supernaturally influenced by Amara but it's not all due to Amara's will. The connection is inherent in the Mark (not Amara's doing). 2) Dean may be sympathetic to SOME of Amara's arguments. He's not down with the soul eating and killing of course. And this may all lead to some questioning Dean's loyalty.

Edited by SueB
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7kstar

7kstar

I think Dean wants a way of stopping Amara without ending Amara. And maybe he doesn't understand this consciously. But if ANYONE is susceptible to 'God is an asshole' argument that Amara has found, it's Dean. Dean has never been down with God's hands-off policy. Yet Dean is also a massive champion of Free Will. So he seems to feel God should intervene but that it doesn't cause a free will conflict. And Dean's also been pretty clear that all the Winchesters have gotten a raw deal from God. Been used by Gos, the Anfels, Lucifed, et al. for their own purposes. And that's another thing that really pisses Dean off.

So, I think Dean is 1) being supernaturally influenced by Amara but it's not all due to Amara's will. The connection is inherent in the Mark (not Amara's doing). 2) Dean may be sympathetic to SOME of Amara's arguments. He's not down with the soul eating and killing of course. And this may all lead to some questioning Dean's loyalty.

All really good points and I can agree with it.  Now for me the question is how much are the writers really thinking about what they are doing?  So far I've not seen enough evidence to suggest they really have a well thought out plan.  I don't usually go, oh you did get me.  Instead I'm working, and other's are working to figure out a solution that fits the character's and the reactions we are seeing on the screen.

 

Having Dean trying to fight a natural conflict would be interesting.  He wants to stop her from killing, stop her before she is too powerful to stop...yet he is drawn to her for reasons he can't figure out.  He protected her as a baby, not understanding who she was, but yet he held her in his arms.  That type of bond is difficult to deal with.  It pulls at his natural protective mode of innocents.  Now that he knows she is God's sister...will he feel that screw it, both God and her got to go?

 

My frustration with the show, is that they create such deep interesting situations, but very seldom do they use them...

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SueB

SueB

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Mark Oshiro's review (http://markwatches.net/reviews/2015/11/mark-watches-supernatural-s11e06-our-little-world/) pointed out that the Episode title is a song from "Into The Woods". The song lyrics certainly fit. http://theatre-musical.com/intothewoods/littleworld.html

And I'm 100% convinced Bobo Berens DID pick that title with all to layered implications. For those unfamiliar, the short short version of relevant bit:

- The Witch (Crowley) locks Rapunzel (Amara) in a tower to protect her from the world. There's a later song about Children Will Listen and another Stay With Me that poignantly cover the issue of a child wishing to see the world and the parent wishing her to stay. (Apologies to Into The Woods fans for my simple explanation).

Back to Bobo -- this kind of depth is easily within his skill set.

With this tie-in perspective, I have to say, I think it fits Crowley/Amara well. The Witch in the musical is a fascinating character but also the antagonist. And Amara's desire to see the world is perfect. I don't think Dean, however, is meant to be The Prince. At least not remotely in personality.

On another level, the title Our Little World, speaks to Amara's point of view IMO. This is God's world. It's fascinating but flawed. And she intends to take her revenge against God. It certainly seems that 'Our Little World' is in serious jeopardy from her because she wants to hurt God and doesn't really care about the entities in His creation. Except Dean. And at this point, I wonder if she'll destroy Dean if that's the only way to get her revenge against a God. I think yes, but she's not 100% certain why he matters to her yet.

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

Wow. I saw "Into the Woods" on Broadway, (I went to Broadway about 3 times a month when I lived in NYC), and this really adds depths to this episode!

 

Sue, I've become so redundant telling you how much I enjoy your posts! You've made me see layers I would never pick up on. Thank you!

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7kstar

7kstar

Love "Into the Woods"  It deals with what happens after the happy ending.  Which tie into God as well.

 

What happens when you've finally created the perfect world and find out you're bored?  That what you expect to happen is no longer interesting.  Children won't listen because they have to find out for themselves.  They need to see with their own eyes and search for more.

 

Dean never let himself go for his dreams and now he knows that what he has done has harmed innocent lives in order to save his brother.  Just like the Baker he is disenchanted with going back to what he once loved.  It isn't giving the same joy.  So how does he save lives, yet not cause harm to someone that may not really be bad.

 

The depth of "Into the Woods"  really can tie into Supernatural...it's scary.  lol

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SueB

SueB

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I wonder if it wasn't God= light & Amara = darkness but rather God= free will & Amara =determinism.

Interesting.  Because Amara really isn't down with the Free Will ... is she? 

 

Mick Lady -- please note it was Mark Oshiro who made the initial connection, I just ran with it because it was a delicious piece of discussion fodder!

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Myrelle

Myrelle

But God has not always been completely hands-off either where it concerns his creation-he "saved" both Winchesters when Lucifer was released the first time, so he can't truly be free will's champion if he makes exceptions. And it's possible/plausible that he showed his hand again in the episode Baby. I think the writing was attempting to convey that anyway.

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Omegamom

Omegamom

Catrox...I am sorry, but I do think they may be going with Dean/Amara. They said in their panel at PasCon that we'd be seeing "sexy Dean". Since he's always sexy, it means he's gonna get together with some woman. Only current choice is Amara, sigh.

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catrox14

catrox14

Catrox...I am sorry, but I do think they may be going with Dean/Amara. They said in their panel at PasCon that we'd be seeing "sexy Dean". Since he's always sexy, it means he's gonna get together with some woman. Only current choice is Amara, sigh.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :(:(:(

 

Donna??? Maybe...please.....pretty please. with powdered donuts on top....Is there a crossroads demon in the house I can make a deal to make sure it's Donna as long as she doesn't die???  

 

Even a casual hookup at a bar..Bartender from Dean's haunt? One of the triplets?? Heather??  Rowena?? (just kidding ish...).  I can name 934761298 characters other than Amara he can have sexy times with.

 

Ugh. I hope you are wrong...Please please please be wrong. Gods, I'd even it rather be Lisa and I couldn't stand Lisa....LOL that's how much I don't want it to be Amara. 

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Maybe it's just adult Amara in a dream or something??  Like trying to seduce him mentally but not actually in real life??

 

My preference, UNAMBIGUOUSLY, is Donna/Dean.  I adore how dorky they can be together.  *sigh* I know it's NEVER going to happen, but I'm on that ship big time.

 

ETA: What I love about Donna (and the way Brianna plays her) is that she's both adorably upbeat while being very competent.  She mixes the two very well.  

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

Well you're five time behind me Sue LOL.  I have also watched Dean's face light up when he sees her and then gives her the sexiest look after she lopped off the vamps head in Hibbing 911....way more than 10 times

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catrox14

catrox14

For....science...and to get the stench of Dean/Amara out of my mind

 

tumblr_inline_ngeariKL621t3c3hb.gif

 

tumblr_inline_ngearq1BsV1t3c3hb.gif

tumblr_ng0ukeAxjJ1tskyv2o2_500.gif

tumblr_nfzqfeonWO1shsenao4_250.gif

 

And finally...this.. Okay I'm sorry but holy shit, if he looked at me like that....well...I couldn't drop trou fast enough LOL

tumblr_nfzmpzwh8N1u26paio3_500.gif

 

 

FUCK ME. This last shot.  Holy hell...I watch that way too much....

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SueB

SueB

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You're not wrong.

 

In other news... IDK about Shat.  https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner

He's tweeted a pic (kinda randomly) and he's been talking on and off about a potential future SPN role ("there's always a possibility"). He's been openly campaigning to play God.  I really hope not.  It's too gimmicky.  I mean I really really hope not.  But if so, I think we'd know it was him by mid-season or he wouldn't have that pic that he's implying.  Also... what a horrible flim-flam rep of God compared to Chuck last year.

 

.... someone talk me off of the ledge....

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I can't fathom the show doing that in serious way. I could see it being like stunt casting from Metatron's version of Carver Edlund's books, or the French Mistake version of God. LOL, but I can't see him being actual!God. I think that would be the total jump the shark moment.

 

I think he's trolling. I don't think it's serious campaigning. He's got some "feud" with Misha and I think that's the extent of it.

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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Leprechaun -- now THAT I would be okay with.  King of the Faeries.  I just don't want anyone but Rob playing God.  If he hadn't been in Fan Fiction, then I would be open to new casting. 

 

And YES... Shat trolls.  I'm fairly certain he adores Misha (Rich mentioned Shatner was DM'ing him the minute he heard Misha was mugged and the two help each other with their charity projects).  But you wouldn't get the impression he adores "cupcake" if you read his tweets.  I'm fairly certain the frenemy angle is Shatner's way of getting a rise out of people. Because... he's trolls like a teen.  But that doesn't make me immune to it (damn it!). 

 

So... Leprechaun.... yep... I'm sticking with that headcanon until otherwise disabused of the notion. 

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

My preference, UNAMBIGUOUSLY, is Donna/Dean.  I adore how dorky they can be together.  *sigh* I know it's NEVER going to happen, but I'm on that ship big time.

 

 

No ships here.  I love Donna (and Jody, for that matter) too much for that.  Because a ship with Sam or Dean means death.  Or anything that can cause them more angst.

 

Plush sneak peeks.

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catrox14

catrox14

Okay. My super hot take on that clip. YMMV.

 

When has Sam ever tried to make a pun? He rolls his eyes at Dean when he does.  There is almost a competitive element to the punning there. Sam is funny without trying to do Dean's schtick. Either that or he's trying to mock Dean, which why? Sam wouldn't be silly during a hunt unless it's for the character he's pretending to be, but when he's in his Fed Mode, he's serious. It's non-sensical. Just like when Sam characterized Dean's time as a demon as Dean's Summer of Love re Crowley.  

 

Dean pointing out that newDoug might have a crush on Donna....with that little finger jesture....odd....

 

Sooo, I'm adding both of those odd behaviors to my ever growing list of "Things That Are Rotten in Denmark"  . I'll come back later with my updated list.....

 

I'm telling y'all...things ain't what they appear to be.  

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Omegamom

Omegamom

Just curious: has Crowley called Dean "Squirrel" at all this season? Given anyone pet names? He's been all "that was then, this is now, I've remembered what I am now", "I'm not your sidekick", "I've had chances to kill you before, but now I'm going to do it", and for some reason it just struck me that I don't recall him being that..."playful"...so far this season.

Anyone?

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catrox14

catrox14

I'm doing a rewatch right now because this season is bugging the crap out of me and I'm trying to prove my theories. LOL. 

 

I'll take note of the Crowley things. Which FTR have seemed kind off to me too.

 

Cas is the only one that doesn't seem off even though he's having PTSD because of the spell. His "offness" I can pinpoint.

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

I agree with Omegamom, Crowley is off this season!

 

I would know, he's my pretend boyfriend.

 

catrox, I can't see Dean with Amara. His anger at Sam when he teamed up with Ruby was just too great. I don't think he'd go down this road.

 

Donna on the other hand, I could get into!

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catrox14

catrox14

 

catrox, I can't see Dean with Amara. His anger at Sam when he teamed up with Ruby was just too great. I don't think he'd go down this road.

 

He may not have any choice in the matter if she's get him under her thrall....which UGH. I HATE IT ALL so much

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Omegamom

Omegamom

(edited)

I agree with Omegamom, Crowley is off this season!

I would know, he's my pretend boyfriend.

Well, that hex bag from Rowena did something to him, we knew that at the end of S10. It looks like it really did do a number on him, cleared away any remnants of his human feelings. Because, like I said, he's not as playful any more. I don't think it's a "releasing of the Darkness" side effect, though.

And, I'm sorry, Mick Lady, but he is my pretend boyfriend. Hands off, honey chile!

Edited by Omegamom
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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

Well, that hex bag from Rowena did something to him, we knew that at the end of S10. It looks like it really did do a number on him, cleared away any remnants of his human feelings. Because, like I said, he's not as playful any more. I don't think it's a "releasing of the Darkness" side effect, though.

And, I'm sorry, Mick Lady, but he is my pretend boyfriend. Hands off, honey chile!

 

You're just lucky I like you so much! But you have an upper hand, you write some scary stuff! Crowley's influence?

 

Ladies, I'm pretty sure Crowley is happy to share! I mean he did just have an orgy....

 

Bitch.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

Bitch.

 

 

LOL I'm just trying to say 'Can't we all just get along". I want nothing to do with Crowley! You ladies can have him all to your collective selves.  Leave me Dean and we'll call it good.

Edited by catrox14
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Omegamom

Omegamom

I'm more a Sam girl, myself. Especially bad/evil Sam. Though, having now seen Jensen up close (autograph session) and been totally and unexpectedly blindsided into immobility by his eyes, I have to admit he's pretty damned stunning.

But Crowley's snark and suit and accent (and the fact that I don't feel like a cradle robber lusting after him) just get me. Sam disapproves. ;-)

(For the record, I liked him in Leverage and BSG and other shows I've seen him in.)

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Mick Lady

Mick Lady

Love the clips! This episode is going to be fun!

 

I'm ignoring Dot's post. I get too many puns from Mick!

 

As for Shatner, I love him! Not on this show, or as an actor, but I've met him on several occasions at horseshows, and the man is a sweetheart. Knows his horses too, and will talk your ears off about them!

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
But Crowley's snark and suit and accent (and the fact that I don't feel like a cradle robber lusting after him) just get me. Sam disapproves. ;-)

 

Cradle robbing?  Oh lordy, girl. It's 2015. That's fine. Y'all worry about robbing the cradle and all take your loot that's just waiting for me. LOL.  Besides it's not like Dean is a teenager. He's almost 40!

 

 

Oh I love Mark Sheppard. I fucking hate Crowley. LOL

Edited by catrox14
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