S08.E03: First Week of School

[Jellybeans]

All I will add to this discussion is if I am in charge of a crying kid, or if I ever have the privilege of having a grandchild I am going to pick up the wailing kid and comfort... that our job as a parent or caretaker.

The more love you give, the more secure they feel.

[BizBuzz]

I will add to the discussion that if someone was in charge of watching my niece when she was 2-3 years old, and she started one of her temper tantrums and you tried to pick her up to give her comfort?  You would have gotten scratched in the face and kicked in places you didn't know you had.

 

Some kids are different, and not all kids respond to being picked up and comforted.  She is 37 now and a fully functioning adult with 6 kids and lots of love from all of her family ... in other words, it didn't matter that she couldn't be picked up and comforted ... she survived.

 

Honest injun' ... not trying to be difficult, just trying to establish that there are different rules for different people and kids.  And what you might think will work, might or might not when thrown in a particular situation.

 

My Mom (92 years old now, so I value her experience) still always says ... don't spit up cause it will land right back in your face.  This has taught me that I can't presume to know anything about anything except my own experience.  Until I live the life of a little person, adopt children with disabilities from other countries, go to school to be a neonatologist, own a pet business, build a pool, etc, I have no right saying what I would or would not do in their situation.  But that is just me.  ::giggle::

[Jellybeans]

That is true BizBuzz. I found ways to comfort even those kids. I had a daycare center when my son was a year old. One of my young charges had an undiagnosed disability which now I think was autism. Back then, it was not well known. He did not want to be cuddled when he was upset but he wanted me to sit next to him and he would hold MY hand. I could not hold his.

I am speaking in general terms.

[BizBuzz]

Well Jellybeans, my sister sure could have used you back in the late 70's then!  There was nothing that would calm her down (she would get so bad she would foam at the mouth).  My sister even took her to doctor's to try to find out if there was some sort of medical reason why she throwing these tantrums.  It eventually came back to my sister from the specialists ... sometimes some kids are just this way. 

 

I appreciate that you are talking in general terms, and in general things usually work that way ... however, we aren't privy to everything, we only see what the show wants us to see, no amount of speculation of what we would do in that situation will change that. 

 

Being a public figure sucks ... you are under scrutiny from all sorts of armchair quarterbacks ... I have been there and so I can speak from experience.  I feel sorry for Jen and Bill, but they opted for this lifestyle, so it goes with the territory.  This is probably my number one reason I wont watch reality shows.  I make a statement against reality TV by not watching.  It's my way of protesting.

 

However, I do have to say, I have fallen under the spell of both these children, they are adorable. 

 

Anyways ... it's one thing to have a discussion, it's quite another to force an opinion on me.  Not calling anyone out in particular, just how I feel reading some of these threads.  And the last thing you want to do is manipulate me.

 

::giggle::

[Jellybeans]

I almost always speak in general terms- there are very few absolutes in life.

Your sister sounds interesting- so how did she turn out? LOL!

[BizBuzz]

Sorry, I think there was some confusion Jellybeans ... my sister wasn't foaming at the mouth, that was a trait of my niece, OMG, my sister would be mortified if someone thought she was foaming at the mouth.  ::giggle::

[CPP83]

However, I do have to say, I have fallen under the spell of both these children, they are adorable.

 

 

 

 

I gotta say that's what I keep coming back to, that;'s what keeps me watching really. Will and Zoey certainly aren't perfect little angels all the time but every time I see them on screen I can't help but laugh or smile or find something sweet and adorable to "awww" over.

 

After seeing a lot and I do mean a lot of rotten little kids over the years, both in real life and especially on TV, Will and Zoey are a breath of fresh air to me.

 

Yes they have their struggles, and they have their moments when obedience is a four letter word in their world, heh, but overall I just see two little munchkins growing up in a home with a lot of love and support and genuine emphasis placed on them developing into the brightest stars possible.

Edited December 27, 2014 by CPP83

[Jellybeans]

Sorry, I think there was some confusion Jellybeans ... my sister wasn't foaming at the mouth, that was a trait of my niece, OMG, my sister would be mortified if someone thought she was foaming at the mouth.  ::giggle::

It's our secret.

[mojito]

 

And she has another verbal tic where she mades her conversation sound like she requesting approval or consensus. "Do you need a time out, Will?" "Are you going to give me that bag?"

I think some of the verbosity has to do with working on her children's language skills.

 

As for Zoey's screaming, as I mentioned before, once she's been around her peers more, she'll realize that this is unacceptable behavior.

 

Another thing that I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned is that those kids might know that when the cameras are on, they can get away with more.

 

While I see some bratty behavior (and know that it represents a small fraction of their life), I feel that a couple years of socialization and maturity  (for the kids) and experience (for the parents) will straighten most things out.

[BizBuzz]

The only example that I can think of, of opinions being invalidated is when people said that only parents should comment on Bill and Jen's parenting skills. Was there any other forcing of opinions on other people, or examples of demeaning people for their opinions?

 

Could you please direct me to where I said that opinions were invalidated?

 

And please remember, that I specifically said ... Not calling anyone out in particular, just how I feel reading some of these threads.

 

It's a perception I have, wrong or right, it's my perception ... I haven't asked anyone to change anything ... it is a general feeling I get when I read some of these posts. 

[Jellybeans]

Maybe we all are prickly here. Can't figure out why. I include myself in the goup just so you know. Admitting you have a problem is the first step I have heard LOL.

A little humor in this zone would help with the snark. ;-)

[BizBuzz]

You are right Jellybeans - my apologies if I added to the less than fun atmosphere today.

 

Here is something to make you laugh, it did me anyway ... and even though it's off topic, it is just to make you laugh:

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Hey get a room you two, I say get a room!!  LOL (or ::giggle::)

Edited December 27, 2014 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Jellybeans]

I know! Lets show it to the Duggars!

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Hey get a room you two, I say get a room!!  LOL (or ::giggle::)

 

Well ok that was my joke test....epic fail!  Not even a smatter of applause....LOL

 

So instead of saying what is wrong I am going to say what is right.

 

The discussions have been healthy and covered many topics and posters both old and new have thoughtfully shared their viewpoints. Thank God each of us have a unique set of life experience filters so we don't all feel the same way!      

 

To simply agree to disagree and move on to a new point is a great sign of respect for a different opinion.    

 

Thank you!  

[Honey]

Well ok that was my joke test....epic fail!  Not even a smatter of applause....LOL

 

So instead of saying what is wrong I am going to say what is right.

 

The discussions have been healthy and covered many topics and posters both old and new have thoughtfully shared their viewpoints. Thank God each of us have a unique set of life experience filters so we don't all feel the same way!      

 

To simply agree to disagree and move on to a new point is a great sign of respect for a different opinion.    

 

Thank you!  

I understood it.  Foghorn

[jumper sage]

Zoey and the doctor - I am older, much, much older and I absolutely hate the doctor.  I won't go.  I won't go!  They have to literally (I mean literally) dope me up in the parking lot for me to walk through the door.  I will fight anyone coming at me with a shot.  Turns out I spent my first two year of life in a hospital.  Who knew?  I will punch anyone approaching me with an invasive tool.

 

Zoey?  Kids stuff, please.

 

Everyone should know how to swim.  Period.  We don't know if Zoey's reaction is because of the cameras.  Some people are just not cut out for adoption.  I personally have worked with the children of two families who wanted to "rehome" their adoptees because they weren't perfect children.  They had baggage.  They did not appreciate what was being done for them.  Bad children!  I think Jen and Bill are educated in the ways of adoption and are shown using techniques most applicable with adoptees.

[joanne3482]

In Zoey's case, though, they have a pool in their back yard.  The family also loves the beach (and may or may not be purchasing a beach house). It will not be as easy for her to avoid water as it has been for you. It seems that Zoey's reaction to almost anything "new" is to scream. She seems to be slower to open up to new things than Will is. 

[NausetGirl]

I feel like you're yelling at us when you use so much bolded text.  IMO

 

No, not at all. I've always been told that capital letters are used to indicate yelling.  If this isn't the case, I apologize. I always bold my main point or what I would be stressing or emphasizing if I was actually speaking to people.  PS - I'm be first to admit I'm a very "free" bolder.  I would use underline but it isn't an option here.

[NausetGirl]

I feel like you're yelling at us when you use so much bolded text.  IMO

 

No, not at all.  If I was yelling, I would have used capital letters [when I learned "e-mail/Internet etiquette" years ago, that's what I was taught. I general "bold" my main point in a paragraph or things I would be emphasizing if I was actually speaking my text to people. PS - if I had been "yelling" the text I bolded, I sure have been yelling some odd things - LOL.

 

PS - oops sorry. When I went to edit my post, it bounced it in again - with the edit!  Moderators, feel free to delete the first one.

Edited December 31, 2014 by NausetGirl

[Chalby]

Orphan and foster children DO have food obsessions.

I have read this entry so many times and stopped myself from responding, yet here I am again and I can't be quiet. Having worked with the Ministry, and with youth either in group homes/ or contracted out to natural homes and foster homes as contracts. I have encountered hundreds of children with a variety of issues - some of it food. But it really bothers me when people make generalized statements about kids in care. "They DO have food obsessions..." as if once an adult admits his/she was in ministry care, we are all going to assume he/she has food issues?  That is not the case at all, and in my experience I only had two clients who were hoarders, and they lived with their natural famiies. I realize kids raised in environments where food is scarce, or there's too many children and not enough supervision, or perhaps the opposite - micro-managing parents watching a child's every caloric intake = those homes "can" produce food issues within children. More often than not, kids who have no control over their dysfunctional home or school environment will often attempt to control anything (within their power) in order to feel some normalcy - be it hoarding food, refusing to eat, organizing food, structuring bedroom toys, and displaying some minor OCD routines (lights), etc. By having a small ritual or 'routine', that only they can perform/control, will make all the dysfunction around them slightly more bearable. All children are susceptible to developing some 'off/odd behaviour' based upon genetic and environmental variables. That's what makes us all unique.

** I have wondered one thing (with regards to Will not adjusting as well to school). Please, If anyone else has thought about this, post and share. If Will is attending Kindergarten (or preschool etc); there is always a structured snack time. I can't see this sitting well with Will for a number of reasons. 1) if the snacks are brought from home, it will be on his mind until he can eat it 2) if the snacks are put aside, but visible, he will not be able to concentrate, and 3) if the children all bring their own snacks, God help the student whose parent packed them some cake, (or something heftier than goldfish, lol). I cannot see Will letting this go. I once instructed a child who had a rare eating disorder, and the entire classroom had to be devoid of any food until 12:00, at which time each child was given a specific amount of food. At 12:20 the food was all removed including the garbage!  (This was discussed and agreed upon by all parents prior to school starting.) Fortunately, the parents and students were amazingly supportive and the child flourished that year - BUT there were quite a few meltdowns at the beginning - with the child wanting his own lunch and screaming because he wasn't allowed the lunches near him. Lots of initial physical aggression but the whole community united to make it work.

[Lillybee]

I don't know why people think that Will is not adjusting well in school since he had been in school less than a week when questioned by Jen. Many children are unhappy with school at the beginning.

[CousinAmy]

This issue came up at work for me last week. A three and a half year old child, quite obese, was asking for more food at lunch. I had given him 2 and 1/2 portions of the protein (breaded chicken) but he was begging for more. Whining, begging, pleading. He still had his vegetables, milk, and fruit, which he refused to touch - so it's not like he was starving. I felt awful, so I asked the head teacher what to do. She said no, no more.

I think teachers have to be firm about setting limits, especially because out food is portioned out to the ounce, and we are very aware of over- feeding and childhood obesity. Will is going to have to learn limits, because there will be times when there is simply no more food, or no more time to linger at the table, and the teachers will be in charge of keeping him active and busy so he doesn't obsess. And there should be access to water if he needs to have something to ingest during the school day.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

 

I think teachers have to be firm about setting limits, especially because out food is portioned out to the ounce, and we are very aware of over- feeding and childhood obesity. Will is going to have to learn limits, because there will be times when there is simply no more food, or no more time to linger at the table, and the teachers will be in charge of keeping him active and busy so he doesn't obsess. And there should be access to water if he needs to have something to ingest during the school day.

 

It is too bad this burden will fall on the teacher's to deal with Will and his food obsession/focus.  Bill and Jen both avoid the issue.  

[CousinAmy]

Preschool teachers have a lot of skills for dealing with children that well-meaning parents, too close to the situation, don't. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see the problem and come up with solutions - if not, there would be no need for teachers, therapists, nutritionists, etc.

[ZoloftBlob]

It is too bad this burden will fall on the teacher's to deal with Will and his food obsession/focus.  Bill and Jen both avoid the issue.

 

I disagree a bit.

 

First, if Will was simply allowed to eat what he wanted, when he wanted, with no one interceding, then, forgive me but he's not "food obsessed" in any clinical fashion because he's not morbidly obese by any definition. If Will isn't given any structure with food, and is the one deciding how much he eats, then he's not stuffing himself insensible at every turn because he'd be a lot fatter if that was the case.

 

Second, if he does have an actual problem, someone is clearly not sitting him in front of a fridge and saying "eat what you like" because frankly, his size would reflect it, especially if he was incapable of regulating his intake.

[Cherrio]

I disagree a bit.

 

First, if Will was simply allowed to eat what he wanted, when he wanted, with no one interceding, then, forgive me but he's not "food obsessed" in any clinical fashion because he's not morbidly obese by any definition. If Will isn't given any structure with food, and is the one deciding how much he eats, then he's not stuffing himself insensible at every turn because he'd be a lot fatter if that was the case.

 

Second, if he does have an actual problem, someone is clearly not sitting him in front of a fridge and saying "eat what you like" because frankly, his size would reflect it, especially if he was incapable of regulating his intake.

In the latest swimming scene, Will has a significant stomach. Its fat hanging over, not just a pudgy baby fat kind of thing.

           We see scenes where Will sneaks food, disobeys orders not to eat and chants food, food, food when a meal is being prepared.  I definitely think there is some sort of problem there.     When they let things slide or make a cutesy joke about it I feel sad for Will. Its seldom he is seen without something to drink or eat or sucking his thumb.

[wrestlesflamingos]

Move on.

[Honey]

It is too bad this burden will fall on the teacher's to deal with Will and his food obsession/focus.  Bill and Jen both avoid the issue.  

We don't know this for a fact, since we only see a small part of their lives.

[Chalby]

Many children are unhappy with school at the beginning.

This is an interesting observation as I find the opposite to be true - especially with primary students. The majority are happy, excited, nervous, perhaps anxious or apprehensive, but very few are 'unhappy' at school. Most students attend class every day, even when they should be at home due to illness, as they don't want to miss one minute away from friends.

[Chalby]

 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Chalby

[Chalby]

 I really struggle to eat healthily which is why Will's snacking is so worrisome to me.

I am not the least bit bored with the constant chatter about unhealthy snacking, food obsessions, etc. as I keep reading, hoping someone's observation will help me with situations I encounter. I currently have a child in my care who sneaks bags and bags of goldfish throughout the day. Please understand that my general rule is: if you are hungry outside of recess and lunch, by all means eat. BUT, if you are going to eat during seat work, it must be healthy. (Healthy is anything in nature's own packaging e.g. an orange, banana, or an item that can be held in your hand without a mess, so no yogurts. If it requires packaging - eat it at recess or lunch.) This one child brings healthy snacks, a solid lunch, but also 2 baggies full of gold fish. He can eat these at recess, lunch, etc. but not during class. Yet every day since September, he sneaks these crackers. I catch him munching on them at his desk until they're gone. Crumbs in his pockets, in the desk, his back pack. I've had to collect the bags in the a.m. and then reissue them at recess. As a result, he whines and actually cries every morning even though his peers have pointed out it's not fair to them if he's allowed to eat goldfish constantly. His mom states she won't stop sending the goldfish as they are her 'treat' for him. Can anyone explain to me this obsession with a certain food? Why do kids need to eat it 'now' rather than wait? This is why I would love to hear others' views on how they would handle Will's food approach. I know what I would do if it were my child, but what about when it's someone else's?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Chalby

[ZoloftBlob]

This one child brings healthy snacks, a solid lunch, but also 2 baggies full of gold fish. He can eat these at recess, lunch, etc. but not during class. Yet every day since September, he sneaks these crackers. I catch him munching on them at his desk until they're gone. Crumbs in his pockets, in the desk, his back pack. I've had to collect the bags in the a.m. and then reissue them at recess. As a result, he whines and actually cries every morning even though his peers have pointed out it's not fair to them if he's allowed to eat goldfish constantly. His mom states she won't stop sending the goldfish as they are her 'treat' for him. Can anyone explain to me this obsession with a certain food?

 

My gut instinct? The kid is spoiled and the mom has decided to "fight this battle for her child!!!" and she's made you the teacher into the bad guy, so the kid knows the more he whines and cries, the more attention his mom will shower on him at home.

 

I actually remember reading about a similar power struggle between a teacher and a mom over the kid needing to stay hydrated but refusing to drink water - he wasn't drinking pop, the mom was insisting his orange juice and milk was perfectly healthy but her little precious just refused to drink tap water like other children and she was demanding the child be indulged even though the school had a strict no beverages but water outside of lunch thing

[Honey]

My gut instinct? The kid is spoiled and the mom has decided to "fight this battle for her child!!!" and she's made you the teacher into the bad guy, so the kid knows the more he whines and cries, the more attention his mom will shower on him at home.

 

I actually remember reading about a similar power struggle between a teacher and a mom over the kid needing to stay hydrated but refusing to drink water - he wasn't drinking pop, the mom was insisting his orange juice and milk was perfectly healthy but her little precious just refused to drink tap water like other children and she was demanding the child be indulged even though the school had a strict no beverages but water outside of lunch thing

Someone should point out to that mom, that orange juice is really not a healthy drink, and milk is full of fat.

[Chalby]

My gut instinct? The kid is spoiled and the mom has decided to "fight this battle for her child!!!" and she's made you the teacher into the bad guy, so the kid knows the more he whines and cries, the more attention his mom will shower on him at home.

 

So the parent perpetuates the bad food behaviour to fill some sort of emotional bond? Interesting - do you think the same theory could apply to Will and his affections? Let him get away with some bad food choices in return for a close moment. I recall Jen and Zoey at the beach and Jen was talking nonstop to Zoey and Zoey appeared so quiet and attentive, then I realized she was eating those goldfish crackers the entire time Jen was talking! Just as Will ate his way through a bag of M & Ms while Bill tried to have a father-son fishing moment. I don't know if this was your intent Zoloft, but you have me re-examining all sort of scenarios. Thanks!

[BizBuzz]

This isn't an official post ... however, I am thinking this conversation of food behaviors is veering off topic in how it relates to the Klein Family and into personal and work related information.  Can I encourage you to take that to the Small Talk thread?  Thank you!