Belle: She loves books

[Geeni]

This thread will probably be a flop, but I don't care and I didn't want to spam the relationships thread anyways. From that thread:

 

 

Belle has confused me the most this season.

 

Honestly, I've been confused about her since S2. Except for her standing up to Rumple in The Croc, this version seems completely different to the one we met in Skin Deep. You know, when she actually called him out on his crap and stormed out (regardless of him ordering her to go). This one is just so passive.

 

 

I have mixed feelings about Belle's character. I love EdR, so by proxy I should like Belle too, but the writers have done a huge disservice to Disney's Belle by making this one a blind moron. But I'm more a fan of her potential, because she has the story to be a really interesting character if the writers actually wrote for her like they do for other characters. Like, I wish and hope we see more of her past with her mother, and I also wish we had gotten some more of her feelings of being locked up by both Regina and Rumple. Belle's so much more interesting when she is interacting with Ariel, Ruby, Robin Hood, Emma, heck, even Regina and Hook! Rumple and her chemistry-free relationship with him just drags her and her story down completely.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Geeni

[Amerilla]

Thanks for starting this thread, Geeni. I'm a EdR fan as well, and we are a definite minority around here. :-)

The bad writing/plotting of the last couple seasons had diminished all the characters, but I think Belle in particular. They build in all these connections to other characters - Leroy, Philip, Mulan, Red, Granny, Archie, Robin, Regina, Rumple, Ariel - but never leverage any of it. They put her in situations where she's primed to have a story, and then don't tell the story. It's never been a matter of them not having anything for Belle to do. ... they simply don't make a space in the overall narrative for her. It would suck precious moments from Regina's tears and Emma's walls. Can't have that.

I don't really see her relationship with Rumple as chemistry-free (chemistry being one of those subjective things), so much as weirdly underdeveloped. It's a symptom of the show's relentless focus on plot over character. Even the whole marriage thing was just so obviously a plot point, rather than a character moment between two people in love, even as a shipper I couldn't take it seriously, and then they went the extra mile to ruin it with the dagger thing. Same with this whole hat business.

I wish I saw it getting better in the near future, but I think this is just what we're stuck with.

[Camera One]

EdR was one of my favorites on "Lost", so I have been disappointed with what she has been given on this show.

 

They haven't explored Belle's character in her own right.  I liked her little adventure with Ariel, for example, but it didn't reveal anything about her character.  You can tell their disinterest with their insertion of Belle's father at the wedding ceremony, with no explanation.  How did they resolve their differences?  I really liked Belle's relationship with her father in the animated movie, but we've gotten nothing on this show.  The Belle centric in 4A did more damage than good.

 

They should never have put her back with Rumple immediately in the Season 1 finale, and at the very least, they should have done a clean break-up in 2A.  They should have waited to resume Rumbelle only when Rumple had reached a certain point in his redemption.  I'm afraid they've done almost irreparable damage with the dagger thing, and how Rumple has treated Belle in 4A.   He does not deserve her, and it's frustrating that they don't let us see her realize it, considering how intelligent she is supposed to be.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Belle has had centrics, but they've largely been superficial. We know very little about her as a person, except she likes adventure and "She loves books". That's pretty much it. We saw her mom for all of five seconds, and her dad is shady but bland. The show has never delved into why her father acts this way, or why Belle wants to be a hero. Her strong fixation on it has to stem from somewhere. They've just set her aside as a prop for Rumple, and I'm not a fan of cardboard characters. Even her so-called backstory episodes lack any depth.

 

I liked Belle in S1 and most of S2 because she was an independent woman who took it upon herself to rid the world of Rumple's evil and save her people. She's become so illusioned now though that it's laughable. She might as well be Gaston's little housewife.

Edited December 10, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Aliasscape]

I was going back over this season in my head the other day and was completely confused that I could not think of the title or the plot of 4x06. Finally looked it up to find it was the Belle episode. I'd forgotten there'd even been a Belle episode with Belle flashbacks at all.

 

I was so glad she slept through this week's ep, the way I tend to sleep through any of her scenes.

 

I've liked Emilie de Ravin just fine in other things but no, I don't enjoy her portrayal, but I can't blame her for not truly putting her heart into a character that's just so incredibly dull and annoying. And compelling things have happened to her but like everyone else in this show, she's not allowed to suffer the actual mental and emotional consequences. Right after the season 1 finale, there were fanfics written where Belle found uncomfortable to be around crowds, bright lights and loud noises. It's like those fic writers put more thought into what Belle had been through than anyone on the OUAT writing staff ever have or ever will.

Sadly, I used to think the only thing she'd ever be able to do with a lasting impact on this show would be to die.  And that would send Rumpel over the edge. Now I'm not sure her death would change anything whatsoever.

[Rumsy4]

They've kept Belle too isolated from the main cast (and even Rumple) for far too long. I just don't think she'll ever get fleshed out properly now. After Skin Deep, her character has floundered so badly! I wonder how de Ravin feels about her little screen-time, and the terrible writing for Belle.

[KingOfHearts]

 

They've kept Belle too isolated from the main cast (and even Rumple) for far too long. I just don't think she'll ever get fleshed out properly now. After Skin Deep, her character has floundered so badly! I wonder how de Ravin feels about her little screen-time, and the terrible writing for Belle.

And when she is with the cast, it's normally research or just playing dead. She doesn't have any true lasting character interactions outside of Rumple. She's just all over the place without actually being anywhere, if you know what I mean. She gets adventures and little scenes with Hook, Regina or Neal, but it's so disconnected that it means nothing at the end of the day.

[Geeni]

She gets adventures and little scenes with Hook, Regina or Neal, but it's so disconnected that it means nothing at the end of the day.

 

I agree with this. I honestly feel like the writers only put her in those scenes to appease the Belle fans that keep tweeting them asking where she is, and they give her research to do because hey, "she loves books" (which is certainly an admirable quality, but as it has been said already, there should be more to her). The most we got about her in her 4A centric is WHY she likes reading.

 

 

She might as well be Gaston's little housewife.

 

Now THIS is one Belle relationship - and I don't necessarily mean romantic - I wish we had seen, since this Gaston seemed very different from the one in the movie. Maybe it's because I love the actor from Psych, but I really wanted to see Gaston as the dashing knight trying to court teenage Lady Belle, who is just not interested and only wants to read about other worlds (is it weird that I ship her with Jefferson because I love the idea of him taking her on adventures to these other worlds?).

 

I just don't think she'll ever get fleshed out properly now.

 

As much as I love Emilie and am glad she has a steady enough job with a paycheck, I think it was a bad idea on the writers' part to make her a regular, at least that early. It would have been a bigger treat to see her sometimes pop up as a guest star, like it is with Ruby and all those other S1 characters now. Her character would probably be treated better and actually used as well.

 

OR, as I have seen this idea thrown around in various places and I love it, if Belle was actually a villain/the author of Henry's book and was writing it to screw with everyone's lives. Mirror!Belle (and a few of her other roles) showed that Emilie is capable of doing darker characters, and I think she would have had a blast with it. It probably would have made Rumbelle a much more interesting relationship too.

 

Though I am curious about 

what her connection to Cruella could be. I'm judging by the promo here.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Geeni

[Amerilla]

I always have to keep in the front of my brain that the story the writers are telling and the story they think they're telling are very different animals.

 

Remember at the end of last season, when people were all over Adam on Twitter asking if Rumpel stealing the dagger meant he didn't really love Belle, or if it meant his marriage proposal was insincere, and he was like "Whaaaaa??? No!" They genuinely did not see how the one thing connected to the other, and they didn't seem to understand how people could interpret it differently. Same thing when Bobby and Emilie were asked about the abusive qualities of Rumbelle at Comic Con - they were surprised, offended even, by the question, because that's clearly not the way they perceive their characters.

 

 

 

Right after the season 1 finale, there were fanfics written where Belle found uncomfortable to be around crowds, bright lights and loud noises. It's like those fic writers put more thought into what Belle had been through than anyone on the OUAT writing staff ever have or ever will.

 

The fact that they never even mentioned that Belle had just spent 30+ years locked in very dark places all by herself, and that there was no fallout at all from that experience, was the earliest sign for in me in S2 that they were not going to handle the post-Curse story with any kind of depth or grace. (It's still not even clear if Lacey was her Curse persona and that was tamped down during her stay in Regina's basement asylum, or if "Lacey" was a construct Regina created on the spot to turn her into a corrupted version of Belle to punish Rumpel.)

Edited December 10, 2014 by Amerilla

[Geeni]

 

(It's still not even clear if Lacey was her Curse persona and that was tamped down during her stay in Regina's basement asylum, or if "Lacey" was a construct Regina created on the spot to turn her into a corrupted version of Belle to punish Rumpel.)

 

Personally, I thought it was pretty obvious that Regina created Lacey just to piss Rumple off. She knew he was trying to stay good, as well as bring Belle back, so she pretty much made Lacey "bad" to make his life even more complicated. That's just me, though.

 

Kind of sucks, because I would have loved to see what Belle's SB persona would have been had she NOT been locked up. I imagine the "toughness" of Lacey, without the "scantily-clad" trait (lol I've always hated that phrase and I hate that the writers actually had someone say it out loud).

 

 

Rumpel stealing the dagger meant he didn't really love Belle, or if it meant his marriage proposal was insincere,

 

I remember that. It's weird because I hate Rumbelle and even I never came to either of those conclusions at all. But I guess I just expected it of him because he's been doing things like that to her and everyone else forever, and still is now, so it seemed in character to me.

 

I do wish we had gotten a scene between her and her father where he apparently apologized to her for trying to erase her memories though. I want them to have a good relationship (if we ever see him again, that is). I also hope we see Belle call Rumple out on his treatment of her in the same way she did Regina and Hook, because as much as I cheered her on in both those scenes, they rang false to me because she has yet to do the same to her so-called husband. What self respect, Belle? :-/

Edited December 11, 2014 by Geeni

[KingOfHearts]

 

(It's still not even clear if Lacey was her Curse persona and that was tamped down during her stay in Regina's basement asylum, or if "Lacey" was a construct Regina created on the spot to turn her into a corrupted version of Belle to punish Rumpel.)

When she was in the asylum, my guess is she lacked fake memories, much like David did before he saw the windmill. She was a clean slate.

[Geeni]

I know people on here don't care for her, but come on, Belle kicking Rumple to the curb was completely awesome and satisfying. I gave her a standing ovation.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I know people on here don't care for her, but come on, Belle kicking Rumple to the curb was completely awesome and satisfying. I gave her a standing ovation.

If she keeps this up, she's my new favorite character hands down. If she develops a relationship with Henry, that's a plus too.

[HoodlumSheep]

I cheered for her when she booted Rumple out of town. Hopefully we'll get to see her interact with the other characters in 4b instead of being the clueless cheerleader she's been sidelined to since forever. I vote we keep independent Belle for as long as possible.

[Rumsy4]

This is the first I've liked Belle since Skin Deep. Emile de Ravin really did a great job at the end. I cheered when she said she had lost herself trying to save Rumple. 

[Shanna Marie]

I vote we keep independent Belle for as long as possible.

Yes! I'm looking forward to seeing her interact with other characters and become a person instead of an appendage for Rumple. The moment she stopped him from crushing the heart, she did a complete 180 in my book, and her scene on the town line was a Crowning Moment of Awesome.

[Geeni]

 

I cheered when she said she had lost herself trying to save Rumple.

 

I loved that it seemed that that line was the writers acknowledging how badly they've been misusing her.

 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing her interact with other characters

 

I'm curious to see her and Hook interact now, seeing that she just saved his life. I also want her to develop friendships, particularly with the Charmings.  

[KingOfHearts]

 

I also want her to develop friendships, particularly with the Charmings.

Well, she's already babysitting for them, so that can't be too far away.

 

 

her scene on the town line was a Crowning Moment of Awesome.

 

That is now one of my favorite scenes in the history of the show. It was just so awesome that I couldn't believe it. The writers can write epic moments when they want to.

 

One thing I wish they would have done is give Belle some seeds of doubt beforehand. 4A Belle would have just looked at that gauntlet and thought, "I know Rumple loves me the most, so there's no point in wasting my time!" I know we had Mirror Belle clue her in, but she didn't seem to really consider what she said.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

For the sake of her character, please keep her away from Rumple until the final season.

[Geeni]

 

please keep her away from Rumple until the final season.

 

Preferably until the final episode of the final season.

 

And here's hoping they give her character some real development, with her full backstory, etc.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Henry calling Belle 'Grandma' in the 4A finale made me wonder... is she even old enough to be his mother? Leaving aside the whole 28-years-cursed thing, because they didn't really age during it, how old is Belle exactly?

[Mari]

Henry calling Belle 'Grandma' in the 4A finale made me wonder... is she even old enough to be his mother? Leaving aside the whole 28-years-cursed thing, because they didn't really age during it, how old is Belle exactly?

It's impossible to know exactly how old the character is meant to be, but the actress is in her thirties.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Mari

[Curio]

I haven't liked Belle since Season 1, so I have to give the writers props for salvaging her character for me in the finale. And I never thought I'd say this, but Belle was definitely a MVP of the episode. I didn't think she'd ever have the guts to stand up to Rumple like that, but I was really impressed. Kudos to you, Belle. 

[Amerilla]

I think she'd be at least old enough to be Henry's mother. I suspect if you pressed the writers, they'd say she and Emma are about the same age (minus the 28 years, of course.) Just the fact that she wasn't being portrayed as a teen in 'Skin Deep,' but as a young woman getting close to marriage, that would put her at around her mid-20s when she meets Rumpel. Then you have to add a couple of years before the Curse and a year or two after.

 

I Googled to see what Emilie's actual age is, and she turns 33 on December 27. Jen turns 36 in April, Ginny turns 37 in May, and Lana turns 38 in July. 

[Spartan Girl]

Robert really sold Rumple's fear and desperation, but Belle did what she should have done a loooooooooooooooooong time ago.  *applauds*

[Amerilla]

I'm actually kind of sad she Belle didn't get to go to New York. Henry was right: she'd love the NYPL. Not to mention the bookstores.

[Mari]

Does the Belle we saw last night seem like the kind of Belle that would have been okay with his plan if he had only explained it? She'd happily gone along with his plan to hat Emma and the Fairies? That killing Hook for the spell ingredient  was peachy-keen? That's not the Belle I thought I knew. She may think that Rumple has a good heart, but she is not down with the killing.

 

 

That might be their intention.  In her rejection scene, she is obviously distraught--but the dialogue was less a rejection of Rumple being evil, and more a rejection of being lied to and manipulated.  Now,logically, that's the most personal thing; naturally she's going to focus on that.  But her speech wasn't "You're evil and you're never going to change." so much as it was "You never choose me.  I'm always second.  You lied and took advantage of me, and I was stupid to believe that you loved me more than power." 

 

It might be something they actually did on purpose--she's always claimed to be against him killing, but the only time she really took a serious stand on it was back in season 1.  .

Edited December 16, 2014 by Mari

[Geeni]

 

But her speech wasn't "You're evil and you're never going to change"

 

Didn't she tell him he never changed, when he told her he could? I'm blanking.

 

 

she's always claimed to be against him killing, but the only time she really took a serious stand on it was back in season 1.  .

 

And 2, and 3, with Hook and Zelena, respectively. The other times, she wasn't aware of his murders (Tamara, Gaston, the mute maid, etc.); or his plan to murder (Henry). I'm not counting the Milah or Emma things because those are huge wtf's to me still- especially since Emma is supposedly a friend of hers. I'll put that one down to the writers forgetting she was even in the episode.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Geeni

[Amerilla]

From the HEA thread....

 

 

 

Belle is heartbroken. What's next for her?
Horowitz: One of the things we loved about [the midseason finale] was that she finally got to stand up for herself. Belle is going to realize that she started out as someone who wanted to be a hero and save the world. She met Rumple, and then she was immediately married....

 

The Brothers Dimm always do this when asked about Belle (and to a lesser extent with Hook). It's a collection of head-scratchers and whoppers that in no way relate to what we generally see on-screen.

 

But still - finally got to stand up for herself? Did they miss the scene in Skin Deep where he kicked her out, and responded by basically telling him to go fuck himself with a chipped teacup? Or every other time, in both flashbacks and real-time, when she's gotten up in his grill and told him you're rude/you're wrong/ you're better than this/you're mistaken/look at this differently/you can choose a different path?

 

(Also..."finally got to stand up for herself" like she was somehow cowering in a corner up to now? I'm often unconvinced that A&E know what words mean in combination with other words.)

 

I also love how they always phrase it "someone who wanted to be a hero," as it if's something aspirational, something she's working towards -  as opposed to the story that's already been told, which began with her giving up her freedom to save her people. When she's been conscious and not-amnesiac, she's generally busy helping the Nevengers with the latest Crisis of the Day, try to figure out what's happening and how to fix it. Hell, this isn't even the first time time she's saved Hook's skanky old ticker from Rumpel.

 

As much as I liked the execution of Mirror!Belle, I hated the retcon that one of Belle's deeply hidden truths was that she was a "coward," when that's complete crap based on what we've seen. Belle has always shown a kind of self-confidence that Emma and Snow can only aspire to and Regina can only fake. Her sense that she can be the hero if she has the chance borders of hubris - it's exactly why she would be drawn to a challenge like Rumpel as her life mate. Her whole backstory with Anna was just malarky, the show tailoring the flashback to support the arc, rather than adding insight to established characters.

 

I don't even want to get into the "immediately married" part, except to say it's sort of accurate given how little time the characters have actually spent in the same realm with their minds and memories intact since the start of S2.

 

I mean...c'mon, A&E. You cannot be this clueless. Can you??

Edited December 17, 2014 by Amerilla

[legaleagle53]

The Brothers Dimm always do this when asked about Belle (and to a lesser extent with Hook). It's a collection of head-scratchers and whoppers that in no way relate to what we generally see on-screen.

 

Congratulations -- you just won the Internet for today!  :)

[Geeni]

 

The Brothers Dimm always do this when asked about Belle (and to a lesser extent with Hook). It's a collection of head-scratchers and whoppers that in no way relate to what we generally see on-screen.

 

Also Regina :)

 

Did they miss the scene in Skin Deep where he kicked her out, and responded by basically telling him to go fuck himself with a chipped teacup?

 

That and the scene in The Crocodile where she briefly dumps him are about the only times she stopped taking his crap and stood up to him though. Those other examples you posted are times that made her as dim as A/E in that she kept stating how "good" he and his heart really is and how he could change when we've seen him exhibit the exact opposite, sometimes in the very next scene. Just like their relationship, it was always about him. Not to mention, stood by and didn't say a single word when Rumple was okay with letting Emma die this season when Charming and Hook came to him for help in 4.03 (or 4, I try to pretend that didn't happen).

 

I agreed with her when she was telling Hook his heart was black back in TO, but it also made her look like a huge, stupid hypocrite, considering who her boyfriend was at the time.

 

 

When she's been conscious and not-amnesiac, she's generally busy helping the Nevengers with the latest Crisis of the Day,

 

I think she meant she wanted to be the one who ultimately saved the day and not just the one to aid the ones who did the fighting (btw, where are those villagers she sacrified her independence for in SD anyway? Surely one of them wants to come see their Lady and thanking her for saving all their asses and also see how she's doing?). Yes, research counts as being a hero, but I could imagine Belle wanting to actively HELP someone, the way she didn't help Anna and then felt remorse. (And didn't her wish to be a hero actually start with her mother inspiring her?)

 

 

Her sense that she can be the hero if she has the chance borders of hubris- it's exactly why she would be drawn to a challenge like Rumpel as her life mate.

 

I'm not sure what you mean?

 

 

Belle has always shown a kind of self-confidence that Emma and Snow can only aspire to

 

It always seemed to be because of her love for Rumple, though. I would love to see her be confident for herself.

 

 

I don't even want to get into the "immediately married" part, except to say it's sort of accurate given how little time the characters have actually spent in the same realm with their minds and memories intact since the start of S2.

 

I guess that could be technically true, if they're looking at it in the way that we have yet to really see Belle as a character, she was mostly one-half of Rumbelle. Even when he wasn't around like in 3B, her story and arc was all about saving him; or her courage was driven by her love for him; etc. Now's the chance to see her create friendships with the mains, live life, maybe try dating if she wants to and all that stuff.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Geeni

[Camera One]

As much as I liked the execution of Mirror!Belle, I hated the retcon that one of Belle's deeply hidden truths was that she was a "coward," when that's complete crap based on what we've seen. Belle has always shown a kind of self-confidence that Emma and Snow can only aspire to and Regina can only fake. Her sense that she can be the hero if she has the chance borders of hubris - it's exactly why she would be drawn to a challenge like Rumpel as her life mate. Her whole backstory with Anna was just malarky, the show tailoring the flashback to support the arc, rather than adding insight to established characters.

 

And the other Anna flashback revealed that Charming's hidden truth was that he was a coward too.  Two for the price of one.  Not only did those two so-called centrics reveal nothing about the main characters, they provided an alternate, negative view of the character inconsistent with what had been portrayed before, and warped the characters to fit the contrived plot. "Family Business" takes place right before "Skin Deep", so it seemed to imply that Belle volunteered to assuage her guilt with what happened with Anna.  I'm afraid what 4B will continue to do to characters like Belle, Snow, Charming, etc. if they have further flashbacks.  

Edited December 18, 2014 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I was thinking about Belle's flashback in 4A, and how she was the one who came up with the idea of summoning Rumple knowing that he was evil from Anna, while she was feeling guilt for choosing the memory stone over Anna.  When they ret-con something like this, it has to fit with what we have seen so far in flashbacks, and at the very least, it should be reflected in later flashbacks.  I would have expected Belle to be searching for answers about the Hat Box and Anna while she was at Rumple's castle.  But we have never seen this, nor was there any evidence of this in the flashback of "Heroes and Villains", unless that was why Belle was snooping in Rumple's cabinets.  

 

In "Skin Deep", it was assumed that Belle knew nothing about Rumple, and was surprised to find he wasn't all that bad à la the animated "Beauty and the Beast" story.  But if Belle already knew from a trustworthy source (Anna) that Rumple was evil and a "twisted man", she should have been all the more wary and harder to win over.  Plus as others have said, Belle should already have known that Rumple was lying about not knowing about Anna.  I suppose the writers would have said that Belle was hiding her own secret and thus wouldn't have called Rumple on it, since it would have shown she too knew Anna.  The previous flashback for Belle, "The Outsider", implied that she had never been on an adventure before, but now we know that was not the case at all.

 

Anyway, I just find 4A's flashbacks for Belle had some serious negative consequences for her character, none of which were explored.  I mean, 4A's flashback for Charming was insulting, very badly written and pretty much random (drunk father).  Belle's one, though, was more ambitious at trying to explain why she so wanted to be a hero, but did more damage.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Camera One

[Geeni]

Honestly, it just shows more and more that the writers don't actually care about timeline continuity...unless it pertains to their faves...sometimes.

 

 

The previous flashback for Belle, "The Outsider", implied that she had never been on an adventure before, but now we know that was not the case at all.

 

I guess one could fanwank that Belle really wanted to help Mulan defeat the Yaoguai because her guilt over not helping Anna was still eating her up. But even that would be a stretch.

[Curio]

A post I made in another thread made me realize how ridiculous it is that Belle is being completely ignored throughout most of this 4B arc. She had the biggest emotional cliffhanger during the 4A finale with sending Rumple away, and the writers never even explored that. I definitely wasn't Belle's biggest fan prior to Heroes and Villains, but after she sent Rumple over the town line, she actually shot way up on my Interesting Characters List. And now I'm just really disappointed that she's back to being an invisible character in 4B. 

 

How long did it take for her to get over that town line incident? Why doesn't she have someone like Emma to take shots with her? When did she decide to start dating Will? Why Will? Does she know about Ana? Do Belle and Hook hang out now, or were they only friendly during the fairy research sessions in the library? Why didn't she know anything about the Author even though she's the resident bookworm? How does she feel about Rumple being back in town? Does she have magical protection spells to keep him away? Why would she be okay with letting Regina take her heart and using it like that against Rumple? When Regina said, "Your ex-husband did a real number on me," why didn't Belle respond back with something like, "Oh, did he lock you up in a cell for 28 years, too?" Why isn't Belle allowed to hang with the Charmings? Why wasn't she included in their author search party? Are they not actually friends? Why isn't Belle allowed to have a personality? Bueller?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Curio

[OnceUponAJen]

Has Belle ever really had much to do with The Book? As far as I remember, Snow found it and gave it to Henry. He's pretty much had it ever since, minus the time in S1 when he left it in Emma's car, the time August took it, and the time after curse 2.0 when noone knew where it was and Snow found it again. It seems like Belle should have been more involved in all of this given her interest in books and research.

[Camera One]

A post I made in another thread made me realize how ridiculous it is that Belle is being completely ignored throughout most of this 4B arc. She had the biggest emotional cliffhanger during the 4A finale with sending Rumple away, and the writers never even explored that. I definitely wasn't Belle's biggest fan prior to Heroes and Villains, but after she sent Rumple over the town line, she actually shot way up on my Interesting Characters List. And now I'm just really disappointed that she's back to being an invisible character in 4B. 

 

Unfortunately, it shows the writers think of Belle as a tool for the plot rather than her own character.  She is used for two purposes:

 

1) To give Rumple something to react to:  That would be the purpose of Will, to give Rumple some sad-face scenes.  This is clear from the fact that we've only seen cursory scenes of Will and Belle, and don't even know how they met or what they see in one another.

 

2) For sudden and convenient plot resolutions: Belle swoops in with, "I just found ____ in the library", to give the heroes some info, which is usually too late or useless, like when she found out Zelena was collecting ingredients to open a portal, or there might be antidote to the Shattered Sight Curse.

 

Though on this show, which is worse... having nothing to do, and keeping your integrity, or given a character assassinating flashback that destroys your integrity like they did Snow/Charming.  Though they already went half-way with this in "Family Business", when they revealed Belle chose a rock over Anna, and where she lied the entire episode.

[Rumsy4]

... after she sent Rumple over the town line, she actually shot way up on my Interesting Characters List. And now I'm just really disappointed that she's back to being an invisible character in 4B. 

 

Same here! I thought she had finally become interesting. And after that--nothing... Why does Emilie de Ravin even bother staying on? 

[Curio]

Unfortunately, it shows the writers think of Belle as a tool for the plot rather than her own character.

Why does Emilie de Ravin even bother staying on? 

 

Is it bad that I'd rather have them write Belle off the show for good than for her to still be around but be completely useless? At least it would've been more believable for Rumple to go full-on moustache-twirling villain if Belle had also died. But the fact that he's doing all of this with her alive doesn't make much sense.

[Mari]

Why does Emilie de Ravin even bother staying on? 

I don't know . . . it's a paycheck with people she seems to get along with and relatively minimal work?  It's also possible she's been told there's something really meaty for her character up ahead.

[Camera One]

It's also possible she's been told there's something really meaty for her character up ahead.

 

LOL, that's the heartiest laugh I've had in awhile.  

 

The highlight of 4B so far was when she gave Henry a donut.  Does he eat anything else?  You'd think Grandma would make something a bit more healthy and less processed.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Camera One

[Mari]

Rumple's been back in Storybrooke for, what, 8 episodes now?  Belle still hasn't had a face to face conversation with him where they're both themselves. 

 

If we were supposed to see Belle as a character in and of herself, instead of just the Rumple Angst/Happiness Accessory?  They've failed.  One conversation with Hook and a couple of weird dates with Will that we don't actually see don't make a character.

 

I'm still 3/4 expecting them to have her give Rumple a speech about their love in the last episode or so of the season, where he does something self-serving that saves someone else at the same time, and have her declare him a hero.

 

Because it's not about her.  It was never about her.  It's just about whether they want Rumple in a good or a bad place.

[Zuleikha]

One of the few things I liked in 2B was "Lacey" because it was the first time I felt like the Belle/Rumple relationship made sense to me, although I thought it revealed Belle to be a flawed, selfish person rather than a heroine (although I was okay with that). But then in s3, it seemed like the darker ramifications of "Lacey" were dropped in favor of Belle being a genuine hero, whose love truly redeemed Rumple. I didn't like it, but I was willing to accept it in order to follow the story I was being shown.

 

However, by this point in 4B, I feel like it's back to "Lacey" for Belle's character development but that A&E don't understand the implications of that. Belle continues to have this creepy undertone of not caring what Rumple is doing in regards to other people as long as he's choosing her and being nice to her. Yet A&E don't seem to realize that this behavior actually reflects on Belle. Belle's not heroic if she loves Rumple for choosing her and not doing cruel things in front of her but doesn't care that he's simultaneously plotting murder, pain, and chaos for people who are not her. Yet, I think A&E wants me to see Belle as heroic.

[Camera One]

It is clear the writers have put very little thought into the character of Belle since she has been written to be all over the place.  Sometimes, she just seems to be a naive but well-meaning person who just wants to see the best in Rumple.  Sometimes, she's the heroic sidekick just wanting to help everyone.  Some of those qualities are reminiscent of the animated Belle, but it doesn't really work with the context of who Rumple was and what he has done.

 

The breaking point for me was actually the episode "Lacey" when they had Belle beaming at Rumple when he decided not to murder Robin and his pregnant wife in cold blood, after an episode of flaying and making her clean up the blood-stained mess.  I didn't find Lacey having the inner desires of Belle to be at all believable.  I figured it was a Regina-created persona to get revenge on Rumple.  

 

With Season 4, now they've revealed that Belle knew all along Rumple's negative reputation when she volunteered to go live with him, and that she was desperately trying to be a hero because of her choosing the rock over Anna.  Now, I don't even know where to begin to understand this character.  The character development has been such an incoherent mess, and even moreso if they have Belle taking Rumple back after all he has done (which seems to be the case with the sympathetic and longing glance she gave him in the latest episode).

Edited May 3, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Belle continues to have this creepy undertone of not caring what Rumple is doing in regards to other people as long as he's choosing her and being nice to her. 

 

Yeah. She finally became interesting when she kicked Rumple out of town. Even then her reasoning was that she had realized Rumple never chose her over his power. So, maybe she does perceive the way he treats her as some indicator of inner goodness? Now that Rumple is back, and tells Belle that he is not going to hurt her or Will, she's back making sheep's eyes at him. I have a bad feeling Belle and Rumple are going to get back together bye end of the season. 

[daxx]

It is almost s guarantee. Pretty sure there will a TLK between them in the finale somewhere. Ugh, that actually makes me ill... Adam and Eddie don't see the problems with that relationship at all.

[KingOfHearts]

The breaking point for me was actually the episode "Lacey" when they had Belle beaming at Rumple when he decided not to murder Robin and his pregnant wife in cold blood, after an episode of flaying and making her clean up the blood-stained mess.

I didn't mind Belle's hope for Rumple in the Dark Castle. At that point, even she knew he was a monster and was still a bad person. Not killing someone that he vowed to was a step in the right direction. It wasn't until later in Storybrooke when she totally believed he was redeeming himself that I began side-eyeing her faith in him. She saw him brutally beat a man twice and learned he killed his wife in 2B, yet she remained completely undeterred. He lied to her repeatedly during their marriage, then she kicked him out, and now she wants him back.

 

She doesn't care if he hurts those around her. It comes off as very selfish.

 

 

One of the few things I liked in 2B was "Lacey" because it was the first time I felt like the Belle/Rumple relationship made sense to me

 

I really liked Lacey. It was a much better episode for the relationship than The Crocodile or The Outsider.

Edited May 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

 

and now she wants him back.

 

To be fair to Belle, we don't know that. Yes--she did seem to be softening towards him in the last episode, but that doesn't mean she is ready to take him back.

[Camera One]

No, we don't know for sure.  But the softening was unearned, so I have no reason to feel confident that the eventual reconciliation won't be the same.

[Shanna Marie]

I worry about Belle if she's softening too much toward Rumple. Given how much she knows he's already deceived her, how can she believe anything he says? Yeah, he said all the right things (well, sort of -- I think it was creepy, but to each her own), but she knows he's a lying liar who lies and who can easily deceive her, so why would him saying nice things make her do anything but roll her eyes?