Unpopular Opinions: All Alone in Purgatory

[FormerMod-a1]

I think the thread title is pretty self-explanatory.  Feel alone about something in the show? Post it here.   I'll start...

 

 

 

I love the show.  I don't think it has declined in quality.

 

While Katrina may not be my favorite character, I don't think she has taken over the show.

 

I have always seen Ichabod and Abbie as the leads and everyone else as secondary and tertiary characters.  As such, I don't expect the latter two groups to have lots of presence in every episode.  I think it's fine if they are minimal here and there for an episode or two or an arc.

 

I am not a big fan of Hawley, he could disappear ala Chuck Cunningham and I wouldn't care.  I don't care if he stays either, I guess I'm more apathetic.  

 

I am looking forward to see what happens with Moloch gone.  Who will take his place?  How will it play out.  I wish there was no hiatus here.  

[Miss Dee]

While I agree with most of the moderate criticisms of the show, my UO is that the show is still very enjoyable (just not as good as it could be).

[savinggrace]

This probably a very unpopular opinion but I think Jenny, like Katrina is an unnecessary character. Abbie didn't need a sister any more than Ichabod needed a wife. Both characters add unneeded family drama even though Jenny is at least useful and not annoying like Katrina.

I have always felt Jenny and Katrina represented a lack of confidence by the showrunner that the audience could identify with Nicole Beharie or find her sexy and badass -- the latter two attributes have been very obviously bestowed on Jenny while the writers assume Katrina's sexiness is obvious (it isn't) and that Katrina is more relatable to viewers. The showrunners seem genuinely surprised that the audience finds Nicole not only sexy and badass but a highly compatible love interest for the leading man Ichabod.

I don't think I've ever seen a show where a definite female lead has to contend with, not one, but two other women who are allowed to share so much of her spotlight and sometimes overshadow her attributes.

Edited December 9, 2014 by savinggrace

[phoenics]

I love Jenny as a character - but I do believe you have an excellent point savinggrace.

[formerlyfreedom]

My unpopular opinion is that I don't necessarily feel that Ichabbie should be end game. I love the dynamic of the two of them working together as Witnesses, and as a single woman myself, I greatly appreciate seeing a female/male friendship on television. I think all too often, couples on tv are shipped put together when a good ole friendship is could be as much (or more!) fulfilling...

[fantique]

I agree with stacey! I have thought about it and I still can't see what being together romantically would do to enhance their relationship and what they bring out in each other. Also, for some reason, I just can't picture them being intimate in that 'waking up in bed together', or making out way. I feel like their potential is more alluring than the result would be.

 

This brings me to my unpopular opinion: I do not find Ichabod/Tom Mison hot or physically/sexually attractive. He's definitely hotter as Ichabod but I don't know... I think he just reminds me of all my guy friends whom I absolutely adored and had awesome conversations with but I was as attracted to them as to my own brothers. Meaning not at all and I loved teasing them about girls. I can see he's handsome, I understand his appeal and Tom is super flirty but he just doesn't do it for me. I have no curiosity whatsoever about what he looks like with his shirt off. 

 

I mean, I enjoy the character and seriously would love having a beer with Tom (well, I hate beer... I'd probably get me some apple cider).

Edited December 10, 2014 by fantique

[HalcyonDays]

stacey and fantique - this may be surprising to you guys, but your opinions is actually quite popular. Many people don't want Ichabod and Abbie to get together and many people think Mison is okay looking, but in costume + wig is good looking. Personally, I do want them together and lately, am finding Mison better looking right now, than in character. Not sure why.

 

My unpopular opinion - When Jenny was first introduced, I didn't think Lyndie Greenwood was a good actress. I believe it was the scene with Crane at Tarrytown. There was something forced about the line delivery. Same with Orlando Jones. Sometimes he can be a bit wooden. Happily, my initial thoughts have been proven wrong for both of them (for the most part). *ducks rotten tomatoes*

 

Another unpopular opinion. The show is not as scary as people make it out to be. A lot of people say that the second season lost it's scariness. The only time I felt creeped out/really scared was in the pilot, with the mirror suddenly cracking, then Moloch suddenly appearing. Other than that, the show is not really scary or creepy at all for me.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm loving this thread already! Thanks for starting it, aquarian :) 

 

I binge watched the whole series in a couple of weeks, and while I did find S1 more fun, I think the allegedly drastic decline of S2 has been exaggerated. Anyone reading many of these threads would think S1 was a nearly flawless, Emmy-worthy masterpiece while S2 was among the worst programs ever to air, neither of which is true (IMO, of course!)

 

I don't see Abbie's character as being nearly as 'marginalized' or mistreated by the writers as most viewers here do. Actually, I think she's being depicted as a pretty awesome and admirable woman who still plays a leading and pivotal role. She's as proactive as any of these characters are allowed to be (which, granted, given that they're so often just reacting to events, may not be saying all that much!) I actually think she's being depicted as far more root-worthy and likable than wishy-washy, blinded-by-a-love-that-isn't-even-love Ichabod.IMO, she's coming off as one of the best female characters currently on TV---just as much so this season as last season. 

 

I don't actively ship Abbie/Ichabod. I don't actively NOT ship Abbie/Ichabod. I can honestly say that I don't care either way whether they eventually get together, though at the moment I think Abbie's a bit too good for Ichabod :)

[amensisterfriend]

...Oh, and I forgot the most controversial UO of all: I hate Ichabod's hair. There, I said it. ;) 

[phoenics]

I'm not sold on Ichabod's Jesus hair. I prefer it pulled back in a ponytail.

[Seychelles]

Me three about Ichabod's hair. He looks like a Cocker Spaniel with it down, to me.

[Yolapukka]

I don't think Headed Headless is a mistake. I enjoy the flashbacks, I'm less pleased with his presence in modern times but his verbal throw-down when he was battling Ichabod in the Gorgon's lair really worked for me, probably because he was being defiant and aggressive rather than peevish and lovelorn. My only problem with Headed is it provides the show with an excuse to write scenes for another character who bores me greatly, but if those scenes lead to her fickle flame-haired self abandoning her marriage because she likes how he unbuttons, I'm all for it. Or he can accidentally behead her while showing off, that'll work too.

Edited December 10, 2014 by yuggapukka

[phoenics]

I don't think headed Headless is a mistake. I enjoy the flashbacks, i'm less pleased with his presence in modern times but his verbal throw-down when he was battling Ichabod in the Gorgon's lair really worked for me, probably because was being defiant and aggressive rather than peevish and lovelorn. My only problem with headed is it provides the show with an excuse to write scenes for another character who bores me greatly, but if those scenes lead to her fickle flame-haired self abandoning her marriage because she likes how he unbuttons, i'm all for it. Or he can accidentally behead her while showing off, that'll work too.

Hahaha! Yes!

Me three about Ichabod's hair. He looks like a Cocker Spaniel with it down, to me.

LMBO! That made me snort.

[savinggrace]

I don't see Abbie's character as being nearly as 'marginalized' or mistreated by the writers as most viewers here do. Actually, I think she's being depicted as a pretty awesome and admirable woman who still plays a leading and pivotal role. She's as proactive as any of these characters are allowed to be (which, granted, given that they're so often just reacting to events, may not be saying all that much!) I actually think she's being depicted as far more root-worthy and likable than wishy-washy, blinded-by-a-love-that-isn't-even-love Ichabod.IMO, she's coming off as one of the best female characters currently on TV---just as much so this season as last season. 

 

 

When people refer to Abbie's marginalization I don't think they're referring to her screen time --which is plenty-- or whether or not she's portrayed in a positive vs negative light. Abbie is being marginalized in that her story is not being told. She is basically a supporting player to Crane's story despite being co-lead. We've gotten tons of flashbacks of Crane's life and know all about his romantic relationship with Katrina. We see Crane interacting with Katrina and his former BFF outside of his Witness duties. We know Crane lives in Corbin's cabin and we see him there frequently. We had basically one episode this season dealing with Abbie and her family. The rest were all about Ichabod.

 

Where does Abbie go when she's not with Ichabod? We never see her apartment.  Does she have any friends? We at least know Crane had his war buddies and Abraham. Abbie has a sister but we never see them interact outside of Witness investigations. What are they like together when they aren't saving the world?  We know Abbie  had a relationship with Luke from Season one but we were told about it in a couple of sentences rather than shown it and it never really got explored. The possible budding relationship with Hawley was all about whether Ichabod approved of him or not. We still don't really know what Abbie thinks of Hawley. Who is Abbie when she's not with Ichabod?

 

It's no surprise we all think Abbie is awesome because writers often overcompensate for a lack of actual character development of POC by making them super-awesome to distract us from the fact that we really don't know anything about them

[amensisterfriend]

It's no surprise we all think Abbie is awesome because writers often overcompensate for a lack of actual character development of POC by making them super-awesome to distract us from the fact that we really don't know anything about them

 

The thing is, I don't know that ANY of the characters on this show are that nuanced or skillfully developed. I just don't see the problems with the writing as limited to Abby because she's a female "POC" and don't feel the writers have some sort of racist agenda. Honestly, I think Abby's come across better than the vast majority of other characters. That's just my opinion, though, which is pretty unpopular on this site. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[DearEvette]

Well, I like Hawley.    If he hadn't already had a romance or somethin' with Jenny, I would have been happy for him and Abbie to get it on.  That scenes of her wrapping his torso (and what a manly torso it is! was great).  I think he unfairly gets  disproportionate amount of  blame for the state of the show when his presence has very little to do with some of the S2 issues, imo.

[phoenics]

The thing is, I don't know that ANY of the characters on this show are that nuanced or skillfully developed. I just don't see the problems with the writing as limited to Abby because she's a female "POC" and don't feel the writers have some sort of racist agenda. Honestly, I think Abby's come across better than the vast majority of other characters. That's just my opinion, though, which is pretty unpopular on this site.

I think that's savinggrace's point. The reason Abbie is so awesome right now is because they are obfuscating the fact that they never give her a real story with a lot of "she's awesome!" instead. She does come across better than the other characters (I'd say all of them) - but I think that's because they haven't spent any real time on her.

Where does she live? Where was she doing all of that research she was doing before she showed up at Crane's house? What happened to Luke?

She was much more fleshed out last season... this season? Not so much.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's keep in mind, this is a place to share one's Unpopular Opinion. If you want to talk about what you think is going wrong, please head over to the Therapy thread. Thank you!

[Amethyst]

I don't think Headed Headless is a mistake. 

 

Neither do I.  If anything, I think it improves his character tremendously.  IMO, the Headless Horseman worked in the first season because he was the primary antagonist besides Moloch.  We only discovered Henry's duplicity in the season finale, and he took over from there as the main villain.  

 

Headless may be menacing, but I find Abraham the person a lot more interesting than Headless, because Headless was just Moloch's personal lackey.  And frankly, I didn't see the use for him this season, because any plan Abbie or Ichabod devised, Henry was two steps ahead.  There was no need to "slay" anyone, so Headless was benched, and we saw more Abraham as a result.  Fine by me.

 

Abraham and Ichabod were believable as friends, and have legitimate chemistry.  That's why I'm so disappointed that they insist on redeeming Henry when Abraham honestly deserves it more.  I'm not ignoring his actions or the fact that he sees Katrina as his property, but Abraham was forced to become the Horseman in his dying breath, only minutes after discovering that his best friend was hooking up with his fiancee.  I can't see how all of that wouldn't have messed with his head.  

 

I find him to be a lot more sympathetic than Henry, who's just plain cruel and hasn't done anything to imply that he's changed.  But we've seen Abraham having second thoughts about Moloch's plan, up til the sword episode, when he said he was proud to be Moloch's servant, which I honestly don't buy.  Moloch betrayed him later by not giving him Katrina, so I'm wondering if Abraham is going to become a free agent of sorts.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Amethyst

[HalcyonDays]

Neither do I.  If anything, I think it improves his character tremendously.  IMO, the Headless Horseman worked in the first season because he was the primary antagonist besides Moloch.  We only discovered Henry's duplicity in the season finale, and he took over from there as the main villain.  

 

Headless may be menacing, but I find Abraham the person a lot more interesting than Headless, because Headless was just Moloch's personal lackey.  And frankly, I didn't see the use for him this season, because any plan Abbie or Ichabod devised, Henry was two steps ahead.  There was no need to "slay" anyone, so Headless was benched, and we saw more Abraham as a result.  Fine by me.

 

Abraham and Ichabod were believable as friends, and have legitimate chemistry.  That's why I'm so disappointed that they insist on redeeming Henry when Abraham honestly deserves it more.  I'm not ignoring his actions or the fact that he sees Katrina as his property, but Abraham was forced to become the Horseman in his dying breath, only minutes after discovering that his best friend was hooking up with his fiancee.  I can't see how all of that wouldn't have messed with his head.  

 

I find him to be a lot more sympathetic than Henry, who's just plain cruel and hasn't done anything to imply that he's changed.  But we've seen Abraham having second thoughts about Moloch's plan, up til the sword episode, when he said he was proud to be Moloch's servant, which I honestly don't buy.  Moloch betrayed him later by not giving him Katrina, so I'm wondering if Abraham is going to become a free agent of sorts.

 

I agree too - I like the actor Neil Jackson in the role, and thought the flashbacks were really good. He and Mison bounce off each other well and you can see the close friendship they had. And I completely agree about the redemption (one thing some of us complain about). Abraham deserves redemption far more than Henry does. And I hope he gets it. There was nothing he did per-say that was wrong - just being a lovesick fool and letting his anger (and frankly being betrayed) get the best of him at a really bad time. I would like to see more Ichabod and Abraham (only) flashbacks.

 

Unpopular opinion: Though John Noble can be a really good actor, I'm not a fan. I find that he chews scenary way too much and his portrayal of Henry is too over the top. I could easily live without his character and the actor on the show. Not needed nor wanted. (I also never watched Fringe). I just don't see what the fuss is about yet so many people are like *OMG!, It's John Noble*. Meh...

[Indi]

I don't think John Noble and Tom Mison have any chemistry at all. Their scenes together are not horrible, like the ones with anything Katrina, but that's due to the fact that they aren't blank walls and they can actually act, but it's not enough to sell me any kind of connection. I actually think John Noble has more chemistry with Nicole Beharie and Neil Jackson. Anyway, I think he was miscast and I don't like him in this show at all.

 

Neil Jackson is a good actor, but since his character is all about Katrina and most of his screentime is wasted on boring scenes with Winter, the only thing I can say is that he doesn't suck completely in her presence, unlike Mison, so the Abraham/StruggleWitch scenes work marginally better. I agree that he's managed to make his character more sympathetic and worthy of redemption, although I'm not interested in that.

[topanga]

My UO: While I love Abbie and Nicole Beharie's portrayal of her, I don't like way she dresses for work. I know her look is supposed to be functional and casual, but IRL a female detective would not wear the fitted t-shirts and tight jeans that Abbie wears--though she looks very cute in them. Female police officers are constantly dealing with co-workers and suspects who challenge their authority, and dressing in a way that emphasizes her hotness would not help Abbie's cause. I'm not saying she has to look Amish, but a little less "check out my petite yet curvy body" would be more realistic. But this is TV, I know.

--I feel the same way about Kate Beckett and her 4-inch heels.

 

Also, I didn't like Aunjanue Ellis's portrayal of Mama. Her crazy was a bit OTT.

[Drank-KoolAid]

I don't ship Ichabbie. To clarify, I don't want to see them become a couple.

 

But what I would love to see is a hot one-night stand that Abbie and Crane both regret the next day, and they spend the rest of the season trying to pretend it never happened. I'm talking awkward interactions at work, a scene with Abbie instinctively reaching over to wipe foam off Crane's mouth then pulling her hand back at the last minute, and Jenny chiming in with "What the hell is wrong with you two?" every now and then.

[HalcyonDays]

My UO: While I love Abbie and Nicole Beharie's portrayal of her, I don't like way she dresses for work. I know her look is supposed to be functional and casual, but IRL a female detective would not wear the fitted t-shirts and tight jeans that Abbie wears--though she looks very cute in them. Female police officers are constantly dealing with co-workers and suspects who challenge their authority, and dressing in a way that emphasizes her hotness would not help Abbie's cause. I'm not saying she has to look Amish, but a little less "check out my petite yet curvy body" would be more realistic. But this is TV, I know.

--I feel the same way about Kate Beckett and her 4-inch heels.

 

Also, I didn't like Aunjanue Ellis's portrayal of Mama. Her crazy was a bit OTT.

 

Yeah, you are absolutely right - those tight skinny jeans and clingy shirt look way too uncomfortable, to be honest (too tight), but yes, it would tend to undermine her authority. However, we rarely see Abbie interrogate anyone these days. I think though looser clothing might overwhelm(??) her tiny frame..maybe...though a button down shirt would be nice. She does wear much shorter heels than Beckett, which is good, but the only reason she wears heels is the Mison-height factor. But there are many scenes with her wearing flat proper boots, so that is good.

 

And I totally agree with this --> "Aunjanue Ellis's portrayal of Mama was a bit OTT." So another UO - I thought The Weeping Lady was a better episode than Mama. Not sure why either. I thought Mama was really well done and Lyndie and Nicole did amazing work but I think I enjoyed WL more overall. *shrugs* Sorry.

 

 

ETA; But what I would love to see is a hot one-night stand that Abbie and Crane both regret the next day, and they spend the rest of the season trying to pretend it never happened.

 

Oooohhh....I could so live with that! Hell yes!

[Indi]

I don't ship Ichabbie. To clarify, I don't want to see them become a couple.

 

But what I would love to see is a hot one-night stand that Abbie and Crane both regret the next day, and they spend the rest of the season trying to pretend it never happened. I'm talking awkward interactions at work, a scene with Abbie instinctively reaching over to wipe foam off Crane's mouth then pulling her hand back at the last minute, and Jenny chiming in with "What the hell is wrong with you two?" every now and then.

 

I don't think anything with Ichy could ever come close to be sexy or hot. Have you seen him with his wife? If those two had any chemistry, I think I'd describe him as sloppy sweet at most.

 

Anyway, I agree, I can't ship those two, but mostly because of my dislike of Ichy. I think he's as toxic, selfish and generally awful as StruggleWitch and I don't find him that attractive either. Abbie could do so much better!

[Drank-KoolAid]

I don't think anything with Ichy could ever come close to be sexy or hot. Have you seen him with his wife?

 

Yes, unfortunately. But his interactions with Abbie are much more satisfying.

 

If those two had any chemistry, I think I'd describe him as sloppy sweet at most.

Anyway, I agree, I can't ship those two, but mostly because of my dislike of Ichy. I think he's as toxic, selfish and generally awful as StruggleWitch and I don't find him that attractive either. Abbie could do so much better!

To each his own, girl. (Wait. Are you are a girl?). But I agree with you about Ichy being selfish and occasionally toxic. Which is why I don't think he'd be great boyfriend material right now. But when I watch the show, the chemistry and connectedness between him and Abbie remains undeniable.

[RiddleyWalker]

OK, I've been thinking about this for quite awhile. I think most of my opinions regarding the show are held by most of the commentors here and likely by most of the viewers of the show, (Katrina is bad, The "Bad's" aren't evil enough, Abbie is minimized and Ichabod is now douchey) there is one area, however, that hasn't been emphasized that I will now. ;)

 

MUSIC!!!!!! Yes the soundtrack is fine, but I really think incorporating other music into the show could really emphasize  and give added impact to certain scenes.  The use of the "Stones" Sympathy for the Devil last year was a great touch and made the Pilot and Finale far more epic to me. I've been catching up on Fringe lately and they freely used popular music. I just watched the first episode of season 5 of Fringe and they used one of my favorite songs by "Yaz" --Only You to great effect. 

 

So my point is that using great music in important moments would be a wonderful way to maximize the emotional impact of the show

 

Anyone have any favorite songs they would like to see on SH? I'd love to see "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd in a particularly dramatic moment. The show would have to earn the right to use that by the way. The off-hand death of Irving in Akeda wan't worthy of that song. (Not that Irving wasn't worthy of it BTW)

 

ETA: Would love to hear "It's the End of the World as We Know It" or "Man on the Moon" by REM or perhaps A David Bowie song---"Space Oddity" or "Ashes to Ashes" could be used well...

Edited December 12, 2014 by RiddleyWalker

[HalcyonDays]

Hey RiddleyWalker - do you mind creating a post in the Speculation thread and pasting the below there? This portion belong there and will give me and the others a chance to respond and have a little light hearted discussion on this! Much appreciated!

 

Anyone have any favorite songs they would like to see on SH? I'd love to see "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd in a particularly dramatic moment. The show would have to earn the right to use that by the way. The off-hand death of Irving in Akeda wan't worthy of that song. (Not that Irving wasn't worthy of it BTW)

 

ETA: Would love to hear "It's the End of the World as We Know It" or "Man on the Moon" by REM or perhaps A David Bowie song---"Space Oddity" or "Ashes to Ashes" could be used well...

[RiddleyWalker]

Done ! (I just copied my post to that thread…I'm awfully lazy, you know.) ;)

[HalcyonDays]

Done ! (I just copied my post to that thread…I'm awfully lazy, you know.) ;)

Perfect. Thanks! And that's exactly what I would have done too - cause I'm lazy too! :')

[phoenics]

I find him to be a lot more sympathetic than Henry, who's just plain cruel and hasn't done anything to imply that he's changed.  But we've seen Abraham having second thoughts about Moloch's plan, up til the sword episode, when he said he was proud to be Moloch's servant, which I honestly don't buy.  Moloch betrayed him later by not giving him Katrina, so I'm wondering if Abraham is going to become a free agent of sorts.

I actually agree about Abraham being more interesting to me than Henry - in terms of redemption. Especially since what I'd prefer to see is Abraham nearly redeemed (I just need Henry dead though) - and then Henry/Jeremy somehow kills Katrina and then Abraham falls back into being Headless (and really REALLY hates Ichabod now because somehow he blames Ichabod for it). Then I get the Abraham vs Ichabod feud that actually MEANS something, Katrina and Henry are gone (no more family drama!) and we still have Headless raging.

He's at his best when he's raging.

I don't ship Ichabbie. To clarify, I don't want to see them become a couple.

 

But what I would love to see is a hot one-night stand that Abbie and Crane both regret the next day, and they spend the rest of the season trying to pretend it never happened. I'm talking awkward interactions at work, a scene with Abbie instinctively reaching over to wipe foam off Crane's mouth then pulling her hand back at the last minute, and Jenny chiming in with "What the hell is wrong with you two?" every now and then.

Haha!! OMGosh - that would be awesome - but if TPTB do that, there's no way they won't go there for real as a couple eventually... talk about Scandal.

[phoenics]

I also want to add that I'm over John Noble. I liked him at first in small doses because he was mysterious, but now I just want every Crane gone except Ichabod, so... and plus, he's just so over the top I cannot take it anymore. It's just too much!

It's just ... annoying and so over the top! Like Denothor!

I now feel like I felt in LOTR:ROTK when he was like "Rule of Gondor is MINE and no otha's!" and then Gandalf kicked him in the face and he fell on the fire and caught fire and then ran off the tip of the sword formation in Gondor to his death... The immense JOY I felt in that moment (I think I yelled "Finally!" in the movie theater when he died) is indescribable.

I kinda want him to go "Rule of Sleepy Hollow is MINE and no otha's!" and then I want Abbie to kick him on a fire pit and then Katrina can make herself useful and make him trip over a root like she did with Mary (ha!) and then he can fall to his death.

The end.

Immense joy will be had by all.

[jhlipton]

After the last couple of flash-back, I see Abraham more sinned against than sinning.  Ichabod has shown his "friendship" is weak at best in more ways than one -- he openly mocked him in the fencing scene, he rejected his proposal to come to America, he spent time with and eventually ended with a woman that he knew Abraham loved deeply (if he truly cared about Abraham, he would have helped him court Katrina, while having an appropriate female friend encourage Katrina to be wooed).  This is the good guy?

 

It's kind of in keeping with "the British are in league with the Devil and the Americans are on the side of the Angels".  Blech.  What a very one-note way to portray the Revolution.  

[Amethyst]

I don't think John Noble and Tom Mison have any chemistry at all. Their scenes together are not horrible, like the ones with anything Katrina, but that's due to the fact that they aren't blank walls and they can actually act, but it's not enough to sell me any kind of connection. I actually think John Noble has more chemistry with Nicole Beharie and Neil Jackson. Anyway, I think he was miscast and I don't like him in this show at all.

 

I don't think they do, either.  It doesn't help that there's such a disparity between them; Ichabod is Henry's father, yet Henry is nearly twenty years his senior as a grown man...it's really odd.  What sucks was that these two did have a good rapport last season, although we know now that Henry was lying the whole time.  

 

I wondered if the lack of connection was an intentional move by the actors, but it doesn't explain Goffman's dumbass reconciliation plans.  No matter how hard they're trying to sell the family connection between them now, it rings false every time.  Besides blood, these two have no emotional bond, and that's what's missing to make this connection real.  

 

Co-sign on Aunjanue Ellis being OTT for Mama.  But that episode could have been better, anyway.  Those events should have been spaced out over a few weeks, not crammed in for one night and then abandoned.  Plus, Ichabod was sidelined, and he really should have been there.  

 

I kinda want him to go "Rule of Sleepy Hollow is MINE and no otha's!" and then I want Abbie to kick him on a fire pit and then Katrina can make herself useful and make him trip over a root like she did with Mary (ha!) and then he can fall to his death.

 

ROFL!  I just remember Denethor running what seemed like forever before he fell to his death.  And he was on fire! 

 

I don't mind Henry being OTT, though.  He's an emotionally stunted manchild, so his temper tantrums make sense to me.  I hate him doing the same stuff over and over again, though.

[Indi]

I don't think they do, either.  It doesn't help that there's such a disparity between them; Ichabod is Henry's father, yet Henry is nearly twenty years his senior as a grown man...it's really odd. 

 

I don't think it's the age disparity, because John Noble had amazing chemistry with Joshua Jackson on Fringe and, although the younger actor was playing the son, the dynamic was similar in that the older looking man was childish, dangerous and in need of parenting.

[jhlipton]

Co-sign on Aunjanue Ellis being OTT for Mama.  

 

Is it really possible to be over the top when you think you're going crazy -- seeing demons everywhere hearing voices that they're coming for you and for your daughters?  I thought she was holding it together fairly well, actually.  :)

[savinggrace]

I know Andy seems to be a popular character and I love John Cho but I don't want to see Andy back on the show. I think his story wrapped up just fine and there's no reason to bring Zombie Andy back. I've seen people on Tumblr shipping Abbie with Andy which is puzzling  considering he sold his soul to the devil and at one point tried to kidnap her.

[Amethyst]

Is it really possible to be over the top when you think you're going crazy -- seeing demons everywhere hearing voices that they're coming for you and for your daughters?  I thought she was holding it together fairly well, actually.  :)

 

Ellis' performance just didn't work for me.  And it went along with the episode being so cluttered.  Lori went from being batshit insane to calm and collected too quickly to be believable, imo.  Her demons may have been real but there was a lot more going on inside her head for her to recover that fast.  

[fantique]

Here's another UO.

 

I think that they should have gone ahead with Abbie being in purgatory longer than an episode. I feel like there still could have been ways to incorporate the leads interacting through vision and linked the event on this plane and purgatory. That creepy dollhouse was intriguing and more world building could have come from it. It also would have had more team interactions because Jenny would have been there to help and Katrina would feel less awkward as well as not forced into that awful "spy" stuff. I think they had so much built around the rescue mission that when they had to scrap the idea, the only SL they had left that was developed was CFD and they had to extend it while rebuilding Abbie's SL. 

[Indi]

The problem with that is Goffman would have sidelined Abbie even more and reduced Nicole's role to guest star, while Ichabod would be out there solving cases and enjoying his married life and Katrina would have taken Abbie's place. Apparently that was Goffman's plan for the first half of the season, but luckily FOX intervened.

 

If the show had been in the right hands, I think it would have been interesting to explore her stay in purgatory for a couple of episodes, as long as that was the main plot and Abbie was the focus.

[phoenics]

The problem with that is Goffman would have sidelined Abbie even more and reduced Nicole's role to guest star, while Ichabod would be out there solving cases and enjoying his married life and Katrina would have taken Abbie's place. Apparently that was Goffman's plan for the first half of the season, but luckily FOX intervened.

 

If the show had been in the right hands, I think it would have been interesting to explore her stay in purgatory for a couple of episodes, as long as that was the main plot and Abbie was the focus.

THIS.

Keeping Abbie in Purgatory would have meant Nicole Beharie would have lost her leading lady status and Katia Winter would have taken over as the star. I think THAT is another reason why Katia was so smug before the season started. Thankfully some of that smugness was tempered by FOX stepping in.

[cheyz]

 

Ichabod is Henry's father, yet Henry is nearly twenty years his senior as a grown man

John Noble is 66, Tom Mison is 32.

[jhlipton]

Here's another UO.

 

I think that they should have gone ahead with Abbie being in purgatory longer than an episode. I feel like there still could have been ways to incorporate the leads interacting through vision and linked the event on this plane and purgatory. That creepy dollhouse was intriguing and more world building could have come from it. It also would have had more team interactions because Jenny would have been there to help and Katrina would feel less awkward as well as not forced into that awful "spy" stuff. I think they had so much built around the rescue mission that when they had to scrap the idea, the only SL they had left that was developed was CFD and they had to extend it while rebuilding Abbie's SL. 

 

Without Goffman and Winter, this would have been great!  They would have been able to go deeper into Abbie's character, her history and what made her tick.  

 

But, yeah, with Goffman wanting to sideline Nicole, it's best they got her out quickly.

[DearEvette]

Apparently there are a couple of stills floating around the interwebs showing Abbie and Ichabod in the creepy Dollhouse.  And I remember seeing a pic of Mison's stunt double in the dollhouse during a blitz of pre-season BTS publicity.  So they did some shooting showing Ab & Ich while Abbie was in purgatory.  I wonder if those deleted scenes (and the on of Ichabod hugging Abbie after her near-drowning) will show up in S2 DVD or flashbacks?

[DeLurker]

 

Apparently that was Goffman's plan for the first half of the season, but luckily FOX intervened.

Words that I never would have thought would be true under any circumstances and yet they are.  My world is askew.

[starchild215]

Apparently there are a couple of stills floating around the interwebs showing Abbie and Ichabod in the creepy Dollhouse.  And I remember seeing a pic of Mison's stunt double in the dollhouse during a blitz of pre-season BTS publicity.  So they did some shooting showing Ab & Ich while Abbie was in purgatory.  I wonder if those deleted scenes (and the on of Ichabod hugging Abbie after her near-drowning) will show up in S2 DVD or flashbacks?

Oh I have to go looking around the webs.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder, this is a spot to talk about your Unpopular Opinion. If you want to discuss what you think has gone wrong, it needs to go into a different topic, please. It may be the Therapy topic, or the Speculation topic, but if it's not an Unpopular Opinion, it will be deleted without comment going forward.

 

As an example; not liking Katrina or her screentime is NOT an unpopular opinion.

 

Thank you.

[cynic]

I love Crane's new coat. I think it's been modernized just enough and it fits better than the old one too. I wouldn't mind similar updates to the britches and boots.

I adore Crane and Tom Mison is beautiful, but I think Hawley is hotter. Yeah, I said it.

[ChelseaNH]

with a woman that he knew Abraham loved deeply

 

I don't buy that Abraham loved Katrina, let alone deeply.  Their engagement was arranged by their families, as I recall.  Flashback Abraham's attitude toward Katrina seemed more possessive than infatuated.  He didn't particularly listen to her or take her preferences into consideration.  Which was one reason she was attracted to Ichabod -- because he treated her like a person rather than a possession.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ChelseaNH

[Yolapukka]

I'm not only fine with Orion being revealed as an enemy in his first episode, I think it was a good idea. I'm not up for weeks of Abbie and perhaps others on team Witness trusting his obviously shady behind and being written as stupid in order to facilitate it. I've had quite enough of that with another corseted, cosseted, character who might not be evil but should be because she thwarts the witnesses' mission at every turn by pursuing her own relentlessly self-involved interests. This way we had a very short interval between both witnesses seeing him as an ally because he acted as one and both witnesses realizing the extent of his untrustworthiness. Ichabod found some alarming history through some quick research and Abby listened to Orion's own words , combined it with what she learned from Ichabod and asked Orion some key questions. Good for them.

Edited January 8, 2015 by yuggapukka