TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Milburn Stone]

10 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

We are huge Jean Shepherd geek-fans  Chez Rat so while we love this movie for all the reasons you give - as somebody who actually heard his storytelling on the radio I'm sure you understand why we feel so frustrated that the huge fandom for this film has never really turned into a fandom for his brilliant radio work.  That was his true metier and people like Spalding Gray and Garrison Keillor and Eric Bogosian only WISH they could do what he did, so apparently effortlessly.  But we have no Turner Classic Radio and thus - although as you say "spellbinding was not too strong a word for his power"  Jean Shepherd remains criminally underappreciated, aside from this one admittedly wonderful film.

You conjure him perfectly, @ratgirlagogo. And you're right, good as his successors are, they're not fit to shine his shoes. Each radio weeknight with Shepherd truly felt like improvisation; he succeeded in creating the impression that he was remembering a story, not reciting one, that it was all true, and that when it came to the telling, he didn't have to prepare, because the truth is easy to remember. (Only lies require preparation.) In retrospect it becomes clear--due to just how beautifully constructed those stories were, and how spellbinding he was--that he couldn't actually have been winging it completely.

There is a SiriusXM satellite radio channel that plays old-time radio, but their cutoff is the mid-fifties. We tend to forget Shepherd was his own personal "golden age of radio" right through the end of the sixties into the seventies. 

Here's a couple sentences from the excellent summation of his life on Wikipedia: "Throughout his radio career, he performed entirely without scripts. His friend and WOR colleague Barry Farber marveled at how he could talk so long with very little written down. Yet during a radio interview, Shepherd once claimed that some shows took several weeks to prepare, but this would probably have been in the thinking and outlining stage rather than in anything like a script." And then this: "Marshall McLuhan in Understanding Media wrote that Shepherd 'regards radio as a new medium for a new kind of novel that he writes nightly.'"

[aradia22]

I was watching the ends of Love Affair and An Affair to Remember today. It's not important why. It brought into sharp relief how much better of a movie Love Affair is, at least in my opinion. It's more or less the same script but the minor changes and the way it's shot and acted (and possibly directed) make a world of difference. Love Affair is so sweet and adorable. An Affair to Remember has so much more bitterness and coldness. Cary Grant comes across as angrier than Charles Boyer in that final scene. And Deborah Kerr is reserved where Irene Dunne is still jovial and playful.

[Charlie Baker]

I was kind of resisting the seasonal stuff--especially not in the mood for it this year.  But I wound up caught by Remember the Night last night, tied up like a bow by the time it got to the singing of "The End of a Perfect Day".  Stanwyck and MacMurray are so good in this--and as was mentioned here some time ago, amazing that they did a 180 and were just as effective in Double Indemnity as a shall we say, different sort of couple.

Today is the Powell/Loy bonanza--their wonderful comedies this afternoon and all the Thin Man series tonight.  I've seen them all numerous times, but I know I won't be able to resist checking in.

[bmoore4026]

Well, on Tomorrow's Christmas schedule, we have: The Robe, Ben-Hur, and King of Kings.  Because, when one thinks of Christmas, one thinks of the horrific way Jesus died.

[voiceover]

A Merry Christmas to all fellow TCMers!!!

[Milburn Stone]

Of course I mean the title of this week’s theme (“Movies Only I Like”) facetiously. No matter how unpopular a movie favorite, a near certainty is at least one other person on the planet likes it. (Also, few things are more tiresome than a person proclaiming his iconoclasm.) That said…

Finian’s Rainbow (1968). Often seen merely as a regrettable culture clash (traditional Broadway musical meets New Hollywood hippie-radicalism in the inexperienced Francis Ford Coppola, a director presumed to have no sympathy for the genre), FR is one of the best movie musicals and something of a miracle for its time, when it seemed the studios had forgot how to make them. Coppola’s modernism refreshes Finian’s, and shows a direction (other than Fosse’s) that movie musicals could have gone; meanwhile, the movie’s lampooning of racism and greed (brought forward from the 1947 source material) is as pertinent today as ever. The score (by Burton Lane and Yip Harburg) and the screenplay (by Harburg and Fred Saidy) are exceptionally well-served. Petula Clark is awesome, Don Francks an appealing countercultural version of a musical leading man, Keenan Wynn a comic delight (when was he not?), Al Freeman Jr. a welcome subversive presence, and Fred Astaire a gift from the gods in his final appearance in a “book” movie musical. The scene Coppola stages of Astaire’s valedictory moment—dancing off into the valley, never to be seen by the characters in the story again, or (in such a role) by the movie audience—a fact of which the audience at the time was aware, the publicity for the film having established that it would contain Astaire’s last such appearance—is one of the greatest intentionally “meta” moments in film history. The exhilarating brilliance of that shot—accompanied by the magnificent orchestra under Ray Heindorf and chorus under Ken Darby--never fails to make me cry. Coppola not understand musicals? Don’t make me laugh.

Under Capricorn (1949). I recently came across a remark to the effect that bad Hitchcock is more interesting than good anyone else—an overstatement to which I silently nodded assent. Case in point, Under Capricorn. It’s bad Hitchcock. But no matter how many elements in a Hitchcock picture you can identify as not working (and some of his films contain a lot of them), some undercurrent of obsession flickering through the celluloid pulls you in. The long takes for which Rope is famous here become, in Rope’s immediate successor, borderline insane, so that averting the eyes is impossible; as the camera tracks the action from outside the mansion to inside, into and out of rooms on the first floor, up the staircase, into and out of rooms on the second floor, and then back again, all without a cut, you’re not so much impressed by the tour de force as muttering “WTF was that?” Hitchcock tropes abound, including (but not limited to) an evil housekeeper right out of Rebecca; set pieces with Joseph Cotton and Ingrid Bergman compel you against your will. While the left side of your brain is saying “I don’t care about these people or this story, and I really don’t care about 19th century Australia,” the right side of your brain won’t let go, for reasons lurking beneath consciousness and impossible to explain.

Always (1989). At the time, this Spielberg remake of 1943’s A Guy Named Joe was deemed “unnecessary,” while its star Richard Dreyfuss was dismissed as “no Spencer Tracy.” But the contemporary acting styles in the film (from Dreyfuss and Holly Hunter, among others—imdb reminds me that Audrey Hepburn was in it, too, which I’d forgot!) legitimize the transplantation of the story from the world of WW2 fighter pilots to the contemporary world of aerial forest-fire fighters, while preserving emotional impact for a modern-day audience. Assured direction by Spielberg and an expert score by John Williams tip it in. But ask anyone to name all the Spielberg director credits he can, and dollars to donuts he won’t remember this one even existed. Pity.

In This Our Life (1942). John Huston’s first effort as a director, this soap with Bette Davis and Olivia de Havilland isn’t reviled by anybody, but it ought to be better remembered than it is for one reason alone: the supporting performance by African-American actor Ernest Anderson. In the role of Parry Clay, a shop assistant who wishes to better himself by obtaining a law degree, Anderson displays a luminous intelligence and a gentle, understated pride that are revolutionary in their contrast to other portrayals Hollywood demanded from black actors of the time. You’ll find no “black dialect” in his speech patterns, no shuffling in his walk or manner. Turns of the plot deepen your sympathy for the character — and your respect for the actor’s range. You’re aware you’re watching, in its treatment of race, a startlingly progressive movie for the time, and an equally progressive performance. (Huston as writer/director deserves his share of credit for this, of course.) The portrayal won Anderson a best acting award from the National Board of Review in 1942. And then…nothing. A look at Anderson’s credits on the IMDB tells the bitterly ironic tale. In the 24 movies he made after In This Our Life, until his last part in 1970, these are the roles he played in 18 of them, in order, with the character names officially identified: George M. Cohan’s Valet; Club Car Steward; Messenger; Train Porter; Black Man; Sam, Elevator Operator; Waiter; Wong, Houseboy; Second Elevator Operator; Redcap at Airport; Mme. Brizar’s Footman; Eddie, Train Steward; Black Man; Fred Johnson, Train Steward; Train Porter; Porter on Twentieth Century Ltd.; Ernie, Ice Cream Vendor at Beach; and Sol, Room Service Waiter. The central speech he makes in his spectacular debut role — about a black man never being able to rise as long as he works for a white employer — prophesied his own career.

The Strawberry Statement (1970). Another movie about campus unrest from the same year, Getting Straight with Elliott Gould, wasn’t much good. But The Strawberry Statement had a freshness that matched the subject matter. It felt like its moment in history, rather than just depicted it. And it contained an appealing performance by newcomer Bruce Davison. I don’t know whether it’s held up, because the one time I’ve seen it was in its original run; but I do know it worked at the time, and is worthy of notice even if only for that reason. Unlike Getting Straight and other Hollywood films about campus turmoil, The Strawberry Statement wasn’t a fossil the day it came out.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Rinaldo]

Part of my understanding of this category is "movies people might like, if anybody remembered them." Most (not all) of the ones I'll list had reasonable reception at the time, but somehow they haven't become classics, even of a trashy sort. A few other titles had a near miss getting on my list, like The Radioland Murders, which I haven't bothered to see a second time but is one of the best flicks ever for actor-spotting, for those who enjoy that; and The Sweet Ride, which nobody ever considered great but is a prime example of the sort of seriocomic studio product nobody has made for decades (Tony Franciosa, Michael Sarrazin, and Bob Denver are aimless Malibu types who share a beach house). It, like two of my actual choices, comes from the years right around 1970, which, being the time I graduated from college and spent 3 years in an army band in DC (with lots of free time between rehearsals), was a period when I saw almost everything released and started forming some attitudes about what I saw. Here goes.

Drive, He Said (1971). I'd better get this one over with first. Jack Nicholson's first directorial effort, which also marked Bruce Dern's emergence from obscurity to a magnetic name to watch. In fact, the whole cast is full of interest for those who study the period: Karen Black, Harry Jaglom (otherwise a director), Robert Towne (admired screenwriter), Michael Margotta, William Tepper, future TV mainstays Michael Warren and Charlie Robinson, blink-and-you'll-miss-them bits by unknowns Cindy Williams and David Ogden Stiers. It's about campus unrest and the uncertainty of those not on the radical edge, especially the basketball team. But who am I kidding? What riveted me at the time was the substantial amount of uncensored male flesh on display to my young innocent eyes, particularly post-game high spirits in the team shower.

The Owl and the Pussycat (1970). Barbra Streisand remains a name to conjure with; George Segal remains a pretty big name (currently on TV); why does nobody mention this romantic comedy that pairs the two? In her first nonmusical outing she showed how funny and how real she could be in this kind of contemporary comedy, and though the premise isn't the freshest ever (isn't there a way to create a lively, funny heroine without making her a hooker? and how many blocked writers must we see authors create?), it's an enjoyable pairing, and the atmosphere very much of its time.

Jeffrey (1995). A nicely realized adaptation of Paul Rudnick's off-Broadway play about a gay man who's sworn off sex because it's become too scary.  Christopher Ashley shows a fearless touch with its theatricality (lots of inter-scene titles, leaps in and out of fantasy, direct address to the audience) that makes me wonder why this remains practically his only film credit. A good funny cast too: Steven Weber, Michael T. Weiss, Patrick Stewart, Bryan Batt, with bits by Christine Baranski, Sigourney Weaver, Nathan Lane, Olympia Dukakis, and on and on. But the thing that made it memorable, and should continue to make it remembered, is that this was the first movie about gay life that wasn't permeated with the worry "what will the straight people think?" It didn't worry about whether its characters were role models, or whether their behavior was off-putting or politically proper -- it told its story without fear and without loss of humor, and remains a kind of landmark in that respect. (I know personally two men who were given the courage to come out by seeing this movie.)

Used Cars (1980). Before directing Back to the Future and Forrest Gump, Robert Zemeckis and his writing partner Bob Gale were masters of the intricately constructed farce screenplay in which all the pieces click into place as it finishes. They began with I Wanna Hold Your Hand, created 1941 for Spielberg to direct (it's better than people remember; the problem is, it isn't actually very funny), and of course the BTTF trilogy is a prime example of this. But the raunchiest and funniest of the lot is Used Cars, which gives us Kurt Russell as the manager of a sleazy car lot who uses every dirty trick in the book to make a sale. Seeing all the subplots chime together as the resolution arrives is a great pleasure, and so is the whole movie (if you're not too easily offended).

The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999). Somehow, this gets no respect. Writer-director Anthony Mingella seems to have turned against it eventually, judging from a brief mention in his last book; and when I see it brought up in online articles, it's to ritually recite that the earlier version with Alain Delon was better. Don't you believe it. I'll admit that Minghella took the skeleton of Patricia Highsmith's novel and made it a very different story with a different point. But what he turned it into is what I love: I was bowled over on first viewing as I haven't been in many years. It's the best movie I know about the experience of being invited into the charmed circle (the life led by those lucky golden people who attract followers, such as most of us have met once or twice), becoming one of them for a short while, and then being ejected again. Tom Ripley reacts as most of us wouldn't, but I still breathlessly follow him every step of the way. This was the film that convinced me that Matt Damon was not just the beneficiary of the annual publicity push to create new movie stars, but a genuine deep acting talent. And the whole picture still (after many viewings) seems perfectly crafted from first frame to last.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Rinaldo

[NutMeg]

7 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Part of my understanding of this category is "movies people might like, if anybody remembered them." Most (not all) of the ones I'll list had reasonable reception at the time, but somehow they haven't become classics, even of a trashy sort. A few others had a near miss, like The Radioland Murders, which I haven't bothered to see a second time but is one of the best flicks ever for actor-spotting, for those who enjoy that; and The Sweet Ride, which nobody ever considered great but is a prime example of the sort of seriocomic studio product nobody has made for decades (Tony Franciosa, Michael Sarrazin, and Bob Denver are aimless Malibu types who share a beach house). It, like two of my actual choices, comes from the years right around 1970, which, being the time I graduated from college and spent 3 years in an army band in DC (with lots of free time between rehearsals), was a period when I saw almost everything released and started forming some attitudes about what I saw. Here goes.

Drive, He Said (1971). I'd better get this one over with first. Jack Nicholson's first directorial effort, which also marked Bruce Dern's emergence from obscurity to a magnetic name to watch. In fact, the whole cast is full of interest for those who study the period: Karen Black, Harry Jaglom (otherwise a director), Robert Towne (admired screenwriter), Michael Margotta, William Tepper, future TV mainstays Michael Warren and Charlie Robinson, blink-and-you'll-miss-them bits by unknowns Cindy Williams and David Ogden Stiers. It's about campus unrest and the uncertainty of those not on the radical edge, especially the basketball team. But who am I kidding? What riveted me at the time was the substantial amount of uncensored male flesh on display to my young innocent eyes, particularly post-game high spirits in the team shower.

The Owl and the Pussycat (1970). Barbra Streisand remains a name to conjure with; George Segal remains a pretty big name (currently on TV); why does nobody mention this comedy that pairs the two? In her first nonmusical outing she showed how funny and how real she could be in this kind of contemporary comedy, and though the premise isn't the freshest ever (isn't there a way to create a lively, funny heroine without making her a hooker? and how many blocked writers must we see authors create?), it's an enjoyable pairing, and the atmosphere very much of its time.

Jeffrey (1995). A nicely realized adaptation of Paul Rudnick's off-Broadway play about a gay man who's sworn off sex because it's become too scary.  Christopher Ashley shows a fearless touch with its theatricality (lots of inter-scene titles, leaps in and out of fantasy, direct address to the audience) that makes me wonder why this remains practically his only film credit. A good funny cast too: Steven Weber, Michael T. Weiss, Patrick Stewart, Bryan Batt, with bits by Christine Baranski, Sigourney Weaver, Nathan Lane, Olympia Dukakis, and on and on. But the thing that made it memorable, and should continue to make it remembered, is that this was the first movie about gay life that wasn't permeated with the worry "what will the straight people think?" It didn't worry about whether its characters were role models, or whether their behavior was off-putting or politically proper -- it told its story without fear and without loss of humor, and remains a kind of landmark in that respect. (I know personally of two cases where men were given the courage to come out by seeing this movie.)

Used Cars (1980). Before directing Back to the Future and Forrest Gump, Robert Zemeckis and his writing partner Bob Gale were masters of the intricately constructed farce screenplay in which all the pieces click into place as it finishes. They began with I Wanna Hold Your Hand, created 1941 for Spielberg to direct (it's better than people remember; the problem is, it isn't actually very funny), and of course the BTTF trilogy is a prime example of this. But the raunchiest and funniest of the lot is Used Cars, which gives us Kurt Russell as the manager of a sleazy car lot who uses every dirty trick in the book to make a sale. Seeing all the subplots chime together as the resolution arrives is a great pleasure, and so is the whole movie (if you're not easily offended).

The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999). Somehow, this gets no respect. Writer-director Anthony Mingella seems to have turned against it eventually, judging from a brief mention in his last book; and when I see it brought up in online articles, it's to ritually recite that the earlier version with Alain Delon was better. Don't you believe it. I'll admit that Minghella took the skeleton of Patricia Highsmith's novel and made it a very different story with a different point. But what he turned it into is what I love: I was bowled over on first viewing as I haven't been in many years. It's the best movie I know about the experience of being invited into the charmed circle (the life led by those lucky golden people who attract followers, such as most of us have met once or twice), becoming one of them for a short while, and then being ejected again. Tom Ripley reacts as most of us wouldn't, but I still breathlessly follow him every step of the way. This was the film that convinced me that Matt Damon was not just the beneficiary of the annual publicity push to create new movie stars, but a genuine deep acting talent. And the whole picture still (after many viewings) seems perfectly crafted from first frame to last.

Beautifully said about the talented Mr. Ripley. I also saw the French movie and both are excellent, although very different animals.  

[bluepiano]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 8:16 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

We are huge  Jean Shepherd geek-fans  Chez Rat so while we love this movie for all the reasons you give - as somebody who actually heard his storytelling on the radio I'm sure you understand why we feel so frustrated that the huge fandom for this film has never really turned into a fandom for his brilliant radio work.  

Thanks for bringing back a happy childhood memory of sitting at the kitchen table listening to Jean Shepherd's nightly radio show (WOR?) on my transistor radio. I remember that "The William Tell Overture" was played at the end of each show, and I loved how he timed his stories to finish just with the concluding note.

I may not have this right, but I believe that he was doing radio show live from some Greenwich Village club.  Or was at least appearing there regularly. I was very envious of a camp counselor I had who'd been to his show, as I was way too young for night clubs. I also remember seeing "Flick Lives" written in marker on a desk in school, and knowing there was another Jean Shepherd fan among my peers.

A couple of years ago I read an article written by someone who knew him well in his last years. It depicted him as a depressed and bitter curmudgeon, who did not take any satisfaction from the notoriety (and money) that A Christmas Story brought him. Apparently he thought it was pretty mediocre movie and not what he wanted to be remembered for.

I still have a well worn paperback copy of his "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash" on my bookshelf.

Edited December 26, 2016 by bluepiano

[Charlie Baker]

I hope everyone is having the kind of holiday season they want.  Including classic movies, of course.

This is my first attempt at this sort of list here, so please be kind. :-) I don’t think it’s coincidental that these mostly made impressions on me at times when I was somewhat more impressionable than I am today. :-) (Yeesh, two smileys in one paragraph.) I’m taking my cue from @Rinaldo, as to how well some of these are liked or remembered, if at all. I could definitely come up with more, perhaps others I like even more than these five, but these are the first that came to mind.

The Ritz (1976) A British filming of a Broadway stage farce by Terrence McNally set in a notorious NYC gay bathhouse in the 70s.  And lots more opportunities for the un PC—a no talent entertainer headlining at the place,  and a total Latina stereotype, named Googie Gomez, played to beyond the hilt, if that’s possible, by Rita Moreno, who won a Tony for the part on stage.  Also very enjoyable are early career performances from F. Murray Abraham. Treat Williams, and very briefly John Ratzenberger about as far from Cliff on Cheers as imaginable. Anchored by Jack Weston as a man on the lam from his mobster in-laws, innocently seeking refuge in the place and getting too much more than he expected. As is usual for movies made from stage farces, the medium of origin isn’t transcended.  And it’s far from great. But it’s fun and sort of a time capsule.

Nickelodeon (1976)  Peter Bogdanovich after his crash and burn (Daisy Miller, At Long Last Love) made this comedy about the early days of movie making.  There’s reportedly some basis in fact in the reckless escapades these characters undertake to get a movie made. There’s the snappy old Hollywood style Bogdanovich re-created in other films. A love for movies. And the cast is very appealing.

3 Women (1977) Robert Altman claimed to have dreamed this movie before making it.  It does have some of the logically-feeling illogic and hallucinatory quality of dreams.  There’s definitely a debt owed to Ingmar Bergman, but this movie is definitely Altman, too. It’s a strange story of one unsocialized young woman latching on to another as a role model and then trying to take over her identity and the unhappy older woman on the outskirts of their lives.  Beautifully acted by Shelley Duvall, Sissy Spacek, and, without saying anything, Janice Rule.  Exceedingly weird, sometimes uncomfortably funny and unsettling.   And probably brilliant.

Bulworth (1998) Warren Beatty’s comic take on politics, race, and economic inequality. An aging white male politician tries to get aware and honest during his latest and intended to be last campaign.   Someone once said this should be reissued every election cycle.  (It would come across even more outrageous and un PC than it did first time around.) It’s funny and pointed, and our political process has only deteriorated further in the years since this came out.

Ishtar (1987) Now here’s one people do revile. Before it was out it received negative publicity on its cost and overlong schedule.  And it was a disaster on its release with the critics and at the box office.   But the deader than deadpan humor (What do you expect from Elaine May?)  and Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman playing a hapless, no talent singer/songwriter team consistently crack me up throughout.  Something of a dark take on the Hope/Crosby pictures of old. Definitely not for all tastes.  Or most, for that matter.  And with this one, perhaps I should slink away.

[Padma]

Good category, Milburn Stone.  If nothing else, it's made me want to take a second (or in some cases, first) look at all of these films. Particularly, "Under Capricorn", "Always", "The Owl and the Pussycat", and "Bulworth" which I've seen, or seen parts of, and probably just didn't give enough of a chance. Oh and "Ishtar", which I never saw (for obvious reasons) but now want to. Love May. Love the old Road pictures. Charlie Baker, your description made me want to give it a look.

And, Milburn, I have a soft spot for "Finian's Rainbow", including the classic song from it, "Old Devil Moon". (Then again, I like Fred Astaire in everything, including tonight's very different performance in "On the Beach".)  re: "Finian", I wish they'd done the animated version with so much musical talent back in 1954 "Among the cast were Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Oscar Peterson, Louis Armstrong, Barry Fitzgerald, Jim Backus and David Burns plus David Wayne and Ella Logan from the original Broadway production. The era's McCarthyism caused financing to be withdrawn due to Hubley and Harburg's refusal to testify before the House Committee on Un-American Activities."

For my list, I'm taking Milburn Stone literally. When these films came out, many critics--and/or everyone I knew personally--hated them.  I like them all.  No particular order. 

"Star!" (1968) - the biopic of Gertrude Lawrence as interpreted by Julie Andrews, Robert Wise and Michael Kidd (with Daniel Massey as Noel Coward, his real life godfather). Julie Andrews was wrong for Lawrence and the script has tons of problems as a biography, but it's an entertaining effort with a lot of great music. (Michael Feinstein, you really need to devote one of those "great composer albums" to Coward who should not be forgotten.) Like a few others, I only saw this on dvd, but it bombed in the theater.

"A Chorus Line" (1985) - Everyone who loved the Broadway show and wanted to see it brought to film, hated this movie, with good reason.  It's a really bad film adaptation of a great Broadway musical.  But, if .. IF... you can put the original out of your mind and just watch it as a movie, it's not bad at all. Yes, it's a travesty to the original, but I find it enjoyable enough on its own as a film.

"Executive Action" (1973) -- Before Oliver Stone's "JFK" there was "Executive Action", coproduced by Burt Lancaster who, along with Robert Ryan (last film) and Will Geer gave up salary to make it. Like many Americans, they did not agree with the Warren Commission report (Mark Lane & Dalton Trumbo wrote the script) and made this valiant effort to let the public know why in this very low-key, documentary style and, I think, effective film positing a different explanation for the Kennedy assassination. (They even printed and distributed a newspaper-style information sheet at every showing)  The timing was bad, coinciding in 1973 with Watergate. Critics panned it, audiences didn't go, and it vanished from the theaters almost immediately. However, in some ways I prefer this film to "JFK". Fortunately, its had a little more life on dvd. where I found it, and occasionally, television.

"Star Trek V: the Final Frontier" (1989)--I still think all it needed was a strong edit (like 1/2 hour less of Yosemite and, well, cuts everywhere.)  I actually liked the premise--the search for God

and how it doesn't work out

--better than most sci fi films--and am a big original series fan. I'll take this one, problems and all, any day over the reboots.

"Stardust Memories" (1980)  Another film that got a lot of negative reaction when it came out. Certainly, everyone I knew hated it.  But I really enjoyed Woody Allen's riff on Fellini and "8 1/2", the beautiful cinematography of Gordon Willis, the great jazz soundtrack, and Allen's wistful musings on life, love, fame (people were offended by Allen, as a famous director, mocking the critics and fans, but its funny). For me, this is one of his best.

[Charlie Baker]

@Padma, I am with you on Star Trek V and Stardust Memories, though in the latter, I wavered about just how much contempt for audience and admirers was intended.

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Baker said:

@Padma, I am with you on Star Trek V and Stardust Memories, though in the latter, I wavered about just how much contempt for audience and admirers was intended.

In my mind's eye when I conjure Stardust Memories, I see a film whose central character holds the audience in contempt, but not necessarily one whose maker does. Obviously in Woody Allen movies in which Woody Allen is playing the "Woody Allen part," there's blur. But I felt when seeing this one that Woody Allen was presenting us with a character who had become seriously alienated from his audience, not that Woody himself was. Or, maybe more precisely, that Sandy Bates was Woody's portrayal of himself on a bad day, or Woody's portrayal of a certain part of himself that he couldn't deny but also didn't embrace.

@Padma, I'm going to have to give A Chorus Line and Star! a look the next time they come around. I've never seen either! (Except for five minutes in the middle of Star!) I do like Frank Sinatra's recording of Cahn and Van Heusen's "title tune," if that counts for anything. :) ("Title tune" in quotes because I don't know if it actually makes an appearance in the film.)

[ratgirlagogo]

16 hours ago, bluepiano said:

he was doing radio show live from some Greenwich Village club.

Yes, the Limelight.  He was eventually bitter about a lot of his career, which I do understand since as I've said I don't think he was ever really acknowledged in the way he deserved.     Without going too far off topic (believe me we've been talking about Jean Shepherd around Casa Rat for decades and I'd have way too much to say)   you can find out an enormous amount about the man and his work at this fansite: http://www.flicklives.com/ - home of the most obsessed Shep fans on the internet.  I feel I do have to warn you though, that like many creative geniuses he was in many ways not a very nice guy  and you may find out things about him on that site that will depress you (he disinherited his kids, for example).

Edited December 27, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[Rinaldo]

To keep the conversation going, some completely subjective and personal comments on some of the titles mentioned so far:

23 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Finian’s Rainbow (1968). Often seen merely as a regrettable culture clash (traditional Broadway musical meets New Hollywood hippie-radicalism in the inexperienced Francis Ford Coppola, a director presumed to have no sympathy for the genre), FR is one of the best movie musicals and something of a miracle for its time, when it seemed the studios had forgot how to make them. ... The scene Coppola stages of Astaire’s valedictory moment—dancing off into the valley, never to be seen by the characters in the story again, or (in such a role) by the movie audience—a fact of which the audience at the time was aware, the publicity for the film having established that it would contain Astaire’s last such appearance—is one of the greatest intentionally “meta” moments in film history. The exhilarating brilliance of that shot—accompanied by the magnificent orchestra under Ray Heindorf and chorus under Ken Darby--never fails to make me cry. Coppola not understand musicals? Don’t make me laugh.

I quite like this too, and watch it often. Coppola himself makes some interesting comments on his DVD commentary, to the effect that he grew up (with a composer father) hearing and loving cast recordings of musicals like this one, so when he was offered the chance to film one early in his career, he took the job in good part to make his father happy. Not every moment works, but it's really one of the better filmings of a big musical in the late 1960s; so many such attempts right around then were dead on the screen, and this isn't. (It's indicative of his not-yet-perfected control of film technique that even that lovely "farewell" for Astaire is mildly spoiled by a random Volkswagen driving across the background when we want the sequence to be mythically pure. Coppola has a rueful chuckle about that in the commentary.)

Quote

 

The Strawberry Statement (1970). Another movie about campus unrest from the same year, Getting Straight with Elliott Gould, wasn’t much good. But The Strawberry Statement had a freshness that matched the subject matter. It felt like its moment in history, rather than just depicted it. And it contained an appealing performance by newcomer Bruce Davison. I don’t know whether it’s held up, because the one time I’ve seen it was in its original run; but I do know it worked at the time, and is worthy of notice even if only for that reason. Unlike Getting Straight and other Hollywood films about campus turmoil, The Strawberry Statement wasn’t a fossil the day it came out.

 

There were a number of these: This one, Getting Straight, Drive He Said (which I cite), RPM, Making It... the list goes on. Most weren't really very good, but I've never seen The Strawberry Statement, and I'd now like to remedy that if I ever get the chance. (I hope I'm not being excessively literal if I mention that Bruce Davison wasn't quite a newcomer: he and Richard Thomas had attracted a lot of attention in Last Summer the year before. Still, given the way movies are made, he had probably been cast in the second movie before the first one was released, so ignore this whole parenthesis.)

9 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

The Ritz (1976) A British filming of a Broadway stage farce by Terrence McNally set in a notorious NYC gay bathhouse in the 70s.  And lots more opportunities for the un PC—a no talent entertainer headlining at the place,  and a total Latina stereotype, named Googie Gomez, played to beyond the hilt, if that’s possible, by Rita Moreno, who won a Tony for the part on stage.  Also very enjoyable are early career performances from F. Murray Abraham. Treat Williams, and very briefly John Ratzenberger about as far from Cliff on Cheers as imaginable. Anchored by Jack Weston as a man on the lam from his mobster in-laws, innocently seeking refuge in the place and getting too much more than he expected. As is usual for movies made from stage farces, the medium of origin isn’t transcended.  And it’s far from great. But it’s fun and sort of a time capsule.

As I mentioned in my own list, I love farces, and this is a good one. Or rather the play is; as noted, the movie is a bit of a mess -- but indeed an enjoyable one. I acquired this from the Warner archive as soon as it became available. Despite the very NYC milieu, this was indeed filmed in the UK (to accommodate director Richard Lester?), and you can tell by the presence of John Ratzenberger. An American then resident in England, he showed up any time the Brits needed an American accent onscreen: e.g., A Bridge Too Far, Yanks, The Empire Strikes Back, Ragtime, among many many others.

8 hours ago, Padma said:

Star! (1968) - the biopic of Gertrude Lawrence as interpreted by Julie Andrews, Robert Wise and Michael Kidd (with Daniel Massey as Noel Coward, his real life godfather). Julie Andrews was wrong for Lawrence and the script has tons of problems as a biography, but it's an entertaining effort with a lot of great music.... Like a few others, I only saw this on dvd, but it bombed in the theater.

Star! was a crucial moment in my development as a young cinemaphile: I walked out of the theater (initial roadshow engagement, though already slightly abridged -- "My Ship" was missing), and I said for the first time in my life, "That was a bad movie -- and I love it anyway." I could even then pick lots of holes in it, but I didn't much care. (BTW, @Milburn Stone, the title song is indeed sung in the movie, by Ms. Andrews herself; it serves as the theme song of the documentary biopic that forms the framework, Citizen Kane - style, of the "true" biography we are then shown [which is itself, of course, not accurate].) It helped to kill the cycle of big Hollywood musicals, but there's some pleasure to be had.

Which is more than I can say for A Chorus Line, about which I remain unrepentant. ☺ Why should I forget its stage source, when that's its whole reason for existence, and the name on which it's trading? What's more, I make sure my students get the message: after we study Lady in the Dark, which usually intrigues them, I have to warn them, "Watch out for the movie, which doesn't represent the quality of the show at all. It's the second-worst movie of a musical ever made." Chances are good that someone will ask what the worst is, which is my cue to casually say, "A Chorus Line, of course." (I'm sure @Padma will forgive me for my reaction, having anticipated it precisely.)

[Charlie Baker]

Well. as @bmoore4026 noted, TCM's Christmas Day schedule was filled with movies about Christ's death.  Then the day after Christmas, we get the post-modern apocalypse: The World, the Flesh, and the Devil, On the Beach.  What's up with that? :-)

I've encountered some people whose first exposure to A Chorus Line was through the movie, and they like the film very much.  Of course, once they get to see a solid stage production, their tune may (or should) change.

[Crisopera]

I'm just dropping a note to thank everyone for the wonderful lists - and I just want to add Practical Magic, the 1998 adaptation of the lovely Alice Hoffman book.  It was almost universally reviled (20% on Rotten Tomatoes), but I love it.  I think the performances are terrific all around and the movie is charming.  It's one of those movies that catches me if I see it when I'm flipping through channels, and I will not refer to it as a "guilty pleasure."  (I reserve that for Ziegfeld Girl.)  I think it's much better than that.  Hope everyone is having a fabulous holiday season!  (I'm on my parents' terrible computer, so will be posting something longer when I get back home, just in case anyone is waiting for my thoughts on the matter with bated breath.)

[mariah23]

Question: will they add Carrie Fisher to TCM Remembers this year or wait?

Edited to add: they added her.

Edited December 27, 2016 by mariah23

[Charlie Baker]

I don't believe that Zsa Zsa Gabor was in the original cut of TCM Remembers and they added her, so adding Ms. Fisher is entirely possible.  (And so lamentable. RIP.)

[voiceover]

I was a fan of her writing from its early Postcards from the Edge days. Funny (if occasionally mannered) and unsparing of self. 

And as a brown-eyed, brunette tomboy, I was indebted to that character. "Finally, FINALLY! a non-blonde princess!" my 14-year-old self rejoiced the day the movie came out. 

I hope Eddie was there to give her a hug. And I'm happy to think of her reunited with (longtime bestie who died of cancer) Joan Hackett.  

Be at peace, Carrie.

[prican58]

Did not know she was friends with Hackett. Such a good actress that Hackett.

I saw Carrie on stage in her one woman show here in NY several years ago. I really liked her as a person and Postcards was a great read. So sad when a mother outlives the child. I've seen it first hand with my mom so my heart really goes out to Debbie Reynolds. Big fan of hers a well.

[bluepiano]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 4:07 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

Yes, the Limelight.  He was eventually bitter about a lot of his career, which I do understand since as I've said I don't think he was ever really acknowledged in the way he deserved.     Without going too far off topic (believe me we've been talking about Jean Shepherd around Casa Rat for decades and I'd have way too much to say)   you can find out an enormous amount about the man and his work at this fansite: http://www.flicklives.com/ - home of the most obsessed Shep fans on the internet.  I feel I do have to warn you though, that like many creative geniuses he was in many ways not a very nice guy  and you may find out things about him on that site that will depress you (he disinherited his kids, for example).

Wow, I'm impressed you knew about that about the Limelight. (By the time I was old enough to go to Greenwich Village that one was gone). Thanks for the tip about the Shepherd fan site. He always had very devoted fans. But prior to the success of A Christmas Story it was almost like a cult, and that was maybe part of the attraction to being a fan, because it was totally non-mainstream.

Interestingly, I have met people who are huge fans of the movie who are totally surprised when I tell them about Shepherd's radio show and published writings. Loving the movie never led them to find out what else he'd done in his career. The two things largely seemed to remain separate. (Similarly, the friend who first turned me on to Jean Shepherd when we were kids, and the biggest Shepherd fan I know, has always refused to see the movie.)

Shepherd did come across as bitter in the article I referenced, and it doesn't surprise me that he wasn't the most stellar human being. I actually make it a general policy not to delve into the personal history of my favorite artists and entertainers. Because too often you learn something about them you wish you didn't know.

But I did go to Wikipedia to refresh my memory on when Jean Shepherd died, and saw that he'd been married to the actress Lois Nettleton. That was something I'd forgotten. She was a very good actress.

Edited December 28, 2016 by bluepiano

[psychoticstate]

On 12/16/2016 at 9:20 PM, voiceover said:

Psychoticstate -- or may I call you "Psycho?" -- I hope you'll jump in anytime.  And that goes for the rest of you!  January Fives are going begging...

Thank you, @voiceover!  I'll plan on jumping in, now that vacation is over.  And yes, call me Psycho.  :) 

[psychoticstate]

A bit late due to vacation but here's my Holiday Top 5 (and hard too, because I looooove Christmas)

1.  It's a Wonderful Life.  I adore Jimmy Stewart.  No one else could ever have played George Bailey.  I also love the premise of seeing life without being in it.  Great feel good movie and perfect during Christmas.  (Shame on Fox for releasing it initially during the summer. Gah!) 

2.   The Shop Around the Corner.  Jimmy Stewart again.  Great story, great pairing with Margaret Sullavan.  

3.  Scrooge (1951.)  Alistair Sim rules as the ultimate Scrooge.  Masterful.

4.  The Holiday.  I adore this movie.  Never tire of it.  Can watch it any time of the year.  Seriously lust after Kate Winslet's Rose Hill Cottage. 

5.  Die Hard.  Best Christmas action movie ever. Initially released in August, go figure. 

Honorable Mentions:  The Family Man (Nicolas Cage in a "It's a Wonderful Life" kind of spin), The Bishop's Wife (Cary Grant, enough said), A Christmas Story (will never get old), The Ref (hilarious), While You Were Sleeping (Sandra Bullock holiday rom-com), Love Actually (Colin Firth!) and Elf (one of the funniest Christmas movies.) 

* Sorry!  Five is tough for me! *

[Padma]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 8:28 PM, Rinaldo said:

....Which is more than I can say for A Chorus Line, about which I remain unrepentant. ☺ Why should I forget its stage source, when that's its whole reason for existence, and the name on which it's trading? What's more, I make sure my students get the message: after we study Lady in the Dark, which usually intrigues them, I have to warn them, "Watch out for the movie, which doesn't represent the quality of the show at all. It's the second-worst movie of a musical ever made." Chances are good that someone will ask what the worst is, which is my cue to casually say, "A Chorus Line, of course." (I'm sure @Padma will forgive me for my reaction, having anticipated it precisely.)

Maybe not forgive, but definitely thank you for it! After all Milburn named his category, "Movies Only I Like”, and your response to "A Chorus Line" makes me look like I'm really telling the truth here for this one. Not only that, but I think I should get bonus points for the new generations of students that are learning abput ACL as the worst movie of a musical ever made! If these categories had prizes, I would try to claim mine for this entry alone.  lol

(edited to correct for excessive use of exclamation points.) 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Padma

[mariah23]

Well, guess what?  Carrie's death killed Debbie!  UGH!!!

I'm sorry to say it like this.  I, just, UGH!!!

Another edit: let's all go and try to see Singin in the Rain on the big screen next month, for Debbie and Carrie.

Edited December 29, 2016 by mariah23

[Crisopera]

Oh my God.  Genuinely tragic.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Crisopera

[Calvada]

This will have to be a first for TCM - I  can't imagine they have ever done one of their TCM Remembers series of movies for two members of a family at one time. 

And now they will have to edit TCM Remembers yet again.  This awful year cannot end soon enough. 

[prican58]

Lord, this is almost too much to bear. Debbie is truly one of my all time favorites. I loved her in Will and Grace as Grace's mom. So talented, such a trouper, a never say die person. I saw the breaking news today in a public space that she had been rushed to a hospital and I prayed that she would be alright for Todd and Billie's sake but I somehow suspected this would happen. I am forever sad about this. I had plans to see Singin' on the big screen and now I will mos def do so.

Please, 2016. Get your things and get out! 

Can TCM revise the reel one more time? Debbie would have to replace Wilder as the last one to turn out the light.

 

ETA The sad thing is that 2017 may just be getting ready to clean house. I suspect we can expect more of the same. 

Goodbye Princess and her Queen. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by prican58

[MissT]

My goodness.  Debbie is gone.  I like all her movies but A Catered Affair was great.  She was so under-rated in that movie.    

Also as the voice of Charlotte the spider in Charlotte'sWebb.  

[voiceover]

I ran in here as soon as I found out.  Hell!

It's times like these, I wish for a TCM chatroom, so we could all mourn together.  

I am at a loss.

[bluepiano]

2 hours ago, MissT said:

My goodness.  Debbie is gone.  I like all her movies but A Catered Affair was great.  She was so under-rated in that movie.    

She should've been nominated for a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for that one. As Carrie Fisher said in her TCM tribute to her mother, by how convincingly she played a role so completely different from her image she showed that she was a real actress, and not just a "star." Within a few moments of when she appears on screen you totally stop thinking of her as Debbie Reynolds.

I really liked her as Albert Brooks' mother in Mother. It was a very genuine and touching performance.

But I think she will always be best remembered for Singing in the Rain, and some of the lesser but still enjoyable musicals she made. I saw a fairly minor one on TCM recently, Give a Girl a Break. She was charming, and more than held her own dancing with Bob Fosse, as she had with Gene Kelly and Donald O'Connor in Singing.

What a talent!!

Edited December 29, 2016 by bluepiano

[bmoore4026]

Carrie Fisher died...Debbie Reynolds died...Franco on The AV Club posted a link to the "Mother Earth and Father Time" song from Charlotte's Web and that finally got the tears flowing.  For them and for all that we lost this year.  Just...so many.

They're sure to do a salute to Debbie Reynolds.  Do you think they'll show the original trilogy to honor Carrie Fisher?

[Charlie Baker]

The losses of Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds so closely together are just surreal and shocking, and sad.  How can one not have tremendous sympathy for Todd Fisher and Billie Lourd at this time?  Both these women represented so much to so many.

I would second remembering Debbie Reynolds for the movies mentioned above, Singin' in the Rain, of course, but also films like The Catered Affair and Mother, where she proved she could play beyond the type of part that made her a star.  I'd add How the West Was Won and Divorce American Style to that list.

[Milburn Stone]

Not to do with TCM directly, but a Hollywood Reporter article from back in May says that a documentary called "Bright Lights: Starring Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher" will be aired by HBO in early 2017:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/bright-lights-starring-debbie-reynolds-893093

[bluepiano]

2 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

 I'd add How the West Was Won and Divorce American Style to that list.

Divorce American Style is a big favorite of mine. Many '60s satirical comedies don't hold up, but that one does. Very sharp writing and direction (the team of Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin, before they hit pay dirt in TV), and Debbie Reynolds and Dick Van Dyke are a terrific combo. (Probably his best movie role). And there's a great supporting cast including Jason Robards, Jean Simmons, Van Johnson, Lee Grant, Eileen Brennan etc.

Debbie was also really good in What's the Matter with Helen (1971), another offbeat role for her.

[bmoore4026]

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Not to do with TCM directly, but a Hollywood Reporter article from back in May says that a documentary called "Bright Lights: Starring Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher" will be aired by HBO in early 2017:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/bright-lights-starring-debbie-reynolds-893093

Thanks for this :)

[Padma]

I liked this article. It hints at the hardships (particularly Debbie's) but brings out the humor they shared and the love.  https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/debbie-reynolds-eddie-fisher-and-elizabeth-taylor-inside-hollywoods-first-love-triangle-123249430.html

Debbie's first role--only 17, two years before "Singing in the Rain"--was in one of my favorite Fred Astaire movies, "Three Little Words".  She played Helen Kane and received a Golden Globe nomination as Best Newcomer. I wonder if TCM will double up on them for a tribute on the same day.  If Robert can still come back to host, I would think he might return for that one, having known them both so well for so many years.

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, bluepiano said:

I really liked her as Albert Brooks' mother in Mother. It was a very genuine and touching performance.

My absolute favorite of her films/performances, with Divorce American Style and In & Out rounding out my top three.  I actually haven't seen her in all that much, as many of her films aren't the type I generally enjoy.

The episode of The Golden Girls in which she appeared was just on the other night.

As I said in the Celebrity Deaths thread, I truly can't wrap my head around what Todd Fisher and Billie Lourd are going through.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Bastet

[ratgirlagogo]

Her own favorite was The Unsinkable Molly Brown I believe, which is one I liked.  She wasn't a great favorite of mine to be honest, maybe because I just don't care on the whole for the kind of movies she was generally in, as opposed to not liking HER as a performer.  Even Singin In The Rain is a movie I like more than love - I like the comedy a lot but the musical/dance numbers just try way too hard for my taste.   Of the things I've seen I agree The Catered Affair is a really good performance, and she more than holds her own again Bette Davis - which is impressive all by itself.

3 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Debbie was also really good in What's the Matter with Helen (1971), another offbeat role for her.

Yes, an effective creepshow - but an odd sign of those particular times that she'd be doing one of those Old Hollywood Glamor Stars Go Grand Guignol vehicles when she wasn't even forty yet.

One of the most interesting things about her was her own massive movie fandom - that she was such a big collector of Hollywood memorabilia.

Carrie Fisher's TCM tribute to her mother has always been a favorite of mine - now it's going to be almost unbearably poignant.

Edited December 29, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[Charlie Baker]

Myrna Loy's Star of the Month tribute wraps up today, somewhat shortened, as in not the entire day.  But there's a really intriguing item late night tonight. Based on the Nathaniel West novel, Lonelyhearts is from the latter part of her career.  She plays the wife of Robert Ryan's cold. cynical newspaper editor.  Montgomery Clift is very intense (when wasn't he?) as the young writer trying to be an advice columnist.  The cast has some very fine character actors working at full steam (MIke Kellin, Jackie Coogan, Frank Maxwell, Frank Overton), Dolores Hart, who famously became a nun, showing a lot of promise, Maureen Stapleton in an Oscar nominated movie debut as one of Lonelyhearts' correspondents, matching Clift for intensity.   This one, as does From the Terrace, demonstrates that Ms. L was perfectly capable of the Davis/Stanwyck-type of dramatic roles, had she been given more of a shot at them.  She wrote in her memoirs that this movie has some of her best work.

She also tells of her friendship with Clift, which ultimately became too much for her and how she regretfully had to put some distance between them.

[Charlie Baker]

TCM schedules its Debbie Reynolds tribute for January 27.

Debbie Reynolds TCM Tribute

[Bastet]

I don't like the movie ending of Lonelyhearts; I wish they'd stuck with the play's.

[PaulaO]

Mr. Blandings on now.  One of my top 10 films.  Does anyone not adore Cary Grant and Myrna Loy?

[Charlie Baker]

@Bastet, I get what you're saying about the ending of Lonelyhearts.  The first time I saw it, I was surprised at how dark it was for a 50s film with mainstream stars, and then wasn't all that surprised by the softened ending.  And I didn't have a huge problem with it.

[Padma]

They've added Carrie to the end-of-year montage (second from the last, just before Gene Wilder), but have not yet added Debbie.

[Pyralis]

• They did a separate one for Debbie. It ran just before Midnight Lace.

[Milburn Stone]

Regarding the HBO documentary about Carrie and Debbie that's been in the can since last May--HBO announced today that the airing, originally scheduled for March, has been moved up to January 7.

[prican58]

I know it's TV but LOGO is having a Will & Grace mini marathon of eps that had Debbie Reynolds. I love those. The "Fanilow" ep is on now. One of the best. Debbie is great in these.

Edited December 31, 2016 by prican58

[Rinaldo]

Tonight on TCM we get all the That's Entertainment/Dancing compilation flicks. Though one can legitimately complain about internal abridgment of excerpts, and the source films are now way more easily viewable than they were in the 1970s, these are still worth a look for those who've missed them and have never seen the classics from which they come. Plus, one new moment is worth tuning in for briefly in its own right (I certainly will): the opening titles of That's Entertainment Part 2 (which airs at 10:30 pm ET). Somebody had fun with compiling all the hokey ways titles have been presented over the years, so we get, in quick succession, a book, a branding iron, fire, beads washed away by the ocean, and everything else.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Rinaldo