Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Emma was prophesied to be the Savior long before her birth. Prophecies are one of the writers' crutches for explaining away the ridiculousness of a set of events. (See: Merlin in 5A.) Since Emma's life has already been framed as something already set in stone numerous times, I can see it happening again in S6 with the Savior mythology. Why wouldn't Rumple know about who she would come to be? He knew she was going to be one of the Saviors, which made it perfect for her to break his curse. 

There's a real irony in Emma being this independent character who tells people to change their lives having her own life set in stone by Fetus Lobotomy/Lily/Ingrid/Merlin/Neal/August/Savior line/Rumple/Apprentice/whatever. Of everyone on the show, she is one fate has the tightest grip on. Regina ain't got nothin' on that.

Edited September 6, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

16 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why wouldn't Rumple know about who she would come to be? He knew she was going to be one of the Saviors, which made it perfect for her to break his curse. 

I think he always knew about the Savior, just not who the parents would be. Merlin knew about Emma, her name, her magic before she was ever born, before her parents met. 

The other option the writers have is to say that Rumple has Seer powers, and he relied on that. I wonder how often Saviors come along. Rumple had to wait centuries to cast his curse because he needed the stars to align (done on purpose of course), he needed Cora's daughter, the Savior that would be born in that time and so on. I think that might work out better than him relying on a prophecy he stumbled upon.

[KingOfHearts]

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 think he always knew about the Savior, just not who the parents would be. Merlin knew about Emma, her name, her magic before she was ever born, before her parents met. 

Replying in Emma thread.

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The other option the writers have is to say that Rumple has Seer powers, and he relied on that. I wonder how often Saviors come along. Rumple had to wait centuries to cast his curse because he needed the stars to align (done on purpose of course), he needed Cora's daughter, the Savior that would be born in that time and so on. I think that might work out better than him relying on a prophecy he stumbled upon.

I think it's a bit of both. Rumple had Seer powers, and those gave him the knowledge that Emma would be the next Savior. But he was more interested in what she was actually going to do. So he could have been aware of the prophecy, but it's a product of his foretelling. When it comes to Rumple, Seer powers trumps all.

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Regina and Zelena embrace their newfound sisterhood by becoming roommates

Such juicy spoilers, am I right?

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Emma develops a mysterious side effect

To translate, "The writers cooked up a new contrived affliction not unlike Rumple's sudden heart condition in 4B."

Edited September 6, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

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 AND RUMPLE ENTERS BELLE’S DREAMSCAPE

So that's a bit creepy. Is he going to see what she's dreaming?

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

So that's a bit creepy. Is he going to see what she's dreaming?

Where is that from? It wasn't in the Press Release and then deleted, was it? If true, it's just the typical invasion of Belle's free will and privacy by Rumple.

[YaddaYadda]

It's in the synopsis at the very top of the press release;

THE HEROES FACE OFF AGAINST A DANGEROUS NEW ENEMY, AS EMMA COMES TO TERMS WITH WHAT IT MEANS TO BE THE SAVIOR, AND RUMPLE ENTERS BELLE’S DREAMSCAPE, ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF ABC’S ‘ONCE UPON A TIME’

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

It's in the synopsis at the very top of the press release;

THE HEROES FACE OFF AGAINST A DANGEROUS NEW ENEMY, AS EMMA COMES TO TERMS WITH WHAT IT MEANS TO BE THE SAVIOR, AND RUMPLE ENTERS BELLE’S DREAMSCAPE, ON THE SEASON PREMIERE OF ABC’S ‘ONCE UPON A TIME’

Oops, I totally skipped that thinking there wouldn't be anything important there. Thanks!

[Souris]

This is why fans need to never assume anything or badger Adam with questions about things they want. CSers are dying for those two to move in together; it's been all the talk in the hiatus. So in response, A&E focus on Regina & Zelena becoming roomies instead. They really get off on twisting and denying the fans' wishes.

OQers are predictably pissed about that development, since they hate the Zelena & baby storyline.

Ah, Rumple, forcing himself into Belle's dreams. Never change!

[Serena]

Proof that Robin was killed because of R/Z, not CS, number 2394.

I have a vague recollection of a story where a hero/Savior was born/activated/given powers once an evil developed. I'm gonna try all night to remember which story it's from. Probably every magical girl manga ever written.

I can believe that A&E are going with Emma's Savior status was activated when Regina became evil, like Aladdin's was with Jafar. It makes sense. No danger = no need for Saviors. Maybe many babies have the Savior potential (let's say all TL babies), but only those born in a specific time of need become Saviors. And since Emma was born literally as the Dark Curse was taking effect, what more appropriate timing? 

[RadioGirl27]

Boring is not a strong enough adjective to describe that press release. 

[Curio]

17 minutes ago, Souris said:

OQers are predictably pissed about that development

Well, I'm no OQer, but even I'm kind of miffed about that. Poor Robin. He and Regina practically dated for two full seasons and we never even knew if they lived together at any point. And then 5 minutes after Robin dies, we get a whole arc about Regina and Zelena being roomies.

11 minutes ago, Serena said:

Proof that Robin was killed because of R/Z

That's a bingo!

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not miffed about anything, I just find funny as hell.

[Curio]

It'll probably be funny to watch Regina and Zelena being roomies, but I feel for those dozen or so Robin fans that exist.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Curio

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

It'll probably be funny to watch Regina and Zelena being roomies, but I feel for those dozen or so Robin fans that exist.

LOL

But I'm very excited by that development. Everything that's happened with them so far has been what I wanted since the end of season 3.

[sharky]

So if Rumple goes into Belle's dreams, I'm assuming that's their explanation to hand wave Bobby's haircut. But then does that mean Belle on the Jolly Roger is a dream? Perhaps in her dream state she chooses Hook to be her vision guide on her vision quest, which is all kinds of weird. 

[Serena]

10 hours ago, Curio said:

It'll probably be funny to watch Regina and Zelena being roomies, but I feel for those dozen or so Robin fans that exist.

I feel sorry for Baby Pistachio, with those two as "mothers". 

But hey, two women raising a child! SQers should be happy.

[mjgchick]

I'm side eyeing these writers having two rapist raise a child together but I'm glad the sisters are no longer fighting because I'm sick of siding with Zelena because of how hypocritical their fights be when she's just as bad as her sister.

[Curio]

Episode 7 is called "Heartless." Will we finally get around to Regina returning the hearts in her vault? Will Emma realize Graham didn't actually die from natural causes and Regina had his heart the entire time? Will Emma apologize to Hook for not realizing he was heartless for so long in Season 4 and for slamming his heart back in next to a bathroom and ditching him to go have shots with Regina? Will we finally figure out what's up with Will and Ana after we get a flashback about heartless Knave? Will we discover that Zeus not only returned Hook without a new left hand, but he also didn't bother to give him his heart back?

Or, more likely, will we get a totally random flashback involving the Evil Queen that introduces a completely new character no one cares about?

[KingOfHearts]

Right off the bat the title made me think of the news headline about Emma's car hitting the Welcome to Storybrooke sign. ("HEARTLESS!") 

[Mari]

Or the Evil Queen Regina needs their heart for some reason, and takes Regular Regina's.

[YaddaYadda]

...

Edited September 7, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

Who on the show hasn't had their heart manipulated yet? Hook was controlled by Rumple, Belle was controlled by Regina, Rumple's heart was charcoal and needed the blackness removed, Snow and Charming have half hearts, Emma attempted to split her heart to no avail...

Yeah, I'm guessing Regina is going to get a taste of her own medicine.

[Souris]

22 minutes ago, Curio said:

Who on the show hasn't had their heart manipulated yet? Hook was controlled by Rumple, Belle was controlled by Regina, Rumple's heart was charcoal and needed the blackness removed, Snow and Charming have half hearts, Emma attempted to split her heart to no avail...

Yeah, I'm guessing Regina is going to get a taste of her own medicine.

About time for that, since she loves controlling others so much. That would be fitting. But it's TS;TW, so I doubt there will be any grand revelations wherein Regina realizes what a horrible thing it is to do & she's sorry for doing that to others.

[Curio]

True. Regina will probably force Regina to do something she doesn't want to do after she takes her heart, and then everyone will assume the worst and blame Regina for doing that thing, but then Regina will get pissed at everyone for assuming she'd actually do that of her own free will, and then everyone will apologize to Regina once they find out Regina has Regina's heart and has been controlling her the entire time.

I'm going to need a lot of alcohol to get through this Evil Queen arc.

[tri4335]

Just now, Curio said:

True. Regina will probably force Regina to do something she doesn't want to do after she takes her heart, and then everyone will assume the worst and blame Regina for doing that thing, but then Regina will get pissed at everyone for assuming she'd actually do that of her own free will, and then everyone will apologize to Regina once they find out Regina has Regina's heart and has been controlling her the entire time.

I'm going to need a lot of alcohol to get through this Evil Queen arc.

And at no point during being controlled will Regina connect the dots and realize that she has controlled others and made them do things against their will.  Because when she does things like that she is justified in her actions.

[Souris]

12 minutes ago, Curio said:

True. Regina will probably force Regina to do something she doesn't want to do after she takes her heart, and then everyone will assume the worst and blame Regina for doing that thing, but then Regina will get pissed at everyone for assuming she'd actually do that of her own free will, and then everyone will apologize to Regina once they find out Regina has Regina's heart and has been controlling her the entire time.

I'm going to need a lot of alcohol to get through this Evil Queen arc.

Alcohol and sturdy tables.

Yes, I assume at some point everyone will blame Regina for something that the EQ does, and it will be THE GREATEST INJUSTICE EVAH that will require copious groveling at Regina's feet once All Is Revealed!

Edited September 7, 2016 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

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Yes, I assume at some point everyone will blame Regina for something that the EQ does, and it will be THE GREATEST INJUSTICE EVAH that will require copious groveling at Regina's feet once All Is Revealed!

Not since The Cricket Game have we seen such a tragically captivating frame job!

Edited September 7, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Amerilla]

18 hours ago, Souris said:

Ah, Rumple, forcing himself into Belle's dreams. Never change!

I suspect it's more like David contacting Snow via the Room O'Fire in S2. Belle is under a sleeping curse and presumably unaware she's been box-jacked, Rumpel alone presumably has the ability to fill her in on the problem (since they've established that communication with the Sleep Cursed is constrained by True Love-ism, and even if you go with the dodgy proposition that Maurice would be able to step in since True Love A is in the Dark One Doghouse, that's getting into needlessly-complicated casting, even by TS;TW's standards). It strikes me as being less about agency than functional plotting. Neither Belle nor the story intends for her to be stuck in that state forever.

[Mari]

 That would make sense. They could even say that the reason a TLK worked on Belle but not Rumple is because they were in tormented dream space.  

 

It it would be a retcon, but not any more obvious than some of the others they've tried.

[Rumsy4]

48 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

Rumpel alone presumably has the ability to fill her in on the problem (since they've established that communication with the Sleep Cursed is constrained by True Love-ism

I think the constraint is someone else who has been under a sleeping curse, not necessarily True Love. That's why Aurora was able to see Henry in her dreams in S2. But in this instance, Rumple hasn't been under a Sleeping Curse+the TLK doesn't work. So, he is getting the help of Morpheus to enter her dreamscape and wake her up. But I agree that from the writers' PoV it's just a plot device. In connection with that:

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Morpheus (24’s Giles Matthey) has a vested interest in how Rumple’s mission to wake Belle plays out, but the EPs are mum on what it is. “I would say, though, that he is highly motivated and emotionally involved,” Kitsis hints. (X)

Let's see. Morpheus has been creeping on Belle through her dreams for a while and is in love with her. Or, Rumple ruined his life, and he wants revenge. Or he needs Baby Damien for some nefarious purpose. Take your pick. ;-)

Also from the same article:

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the purely Evil Queen will form a “delicious”plan to attack the heroes “with the style and grace you would expect” from the royal

Like a freight truck in a Greenhouse.

[Amerilla]

17 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think the constraint is someone else who has been under a sleeping curse, not necessarily True Love. That's why Aurora was able to see Henry in her dreams in S2. But in this instance, Rumple hasn't been under a Sleeping Curse+the TLK doesn't work. So, he is getting the help of Morpheus to enter her dreamscape and wake her up. But I agree that from the writers' PoV it's just a plot device. In connection with that:

 

Oh, you're right! S2 seems so long ago, I forgot the details.  

[KingOfHearts]

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“with the style and grace you would expect”

You mean like standing right in front of your enemy and not killing them because the plot demands your psychotic stupidity?
 

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Let's see. Morpheus has been creeping on Belle through her dreams for a while and is in love with her. Or, Rumple ruined his life, and he wants revenge. Or he needs Baby Damien for some nefarious purpose. Take your pick. ;-)

Belle: *stops making out with Morpheus* "Rumple?! What are you doing in my dreams!?"
Rumple: "I thought the Sleeping Curse took you to the Nether World... not a rat-infested singles bar."
Belle: "Rumple, this is Season 6, not Season 2."
Morpheus: "The lady seemed lonely, so I uh- let her dream freely."
Rumple: "What about Bae - I mean the baby?!"
Belle: "When I wake you up, I'll worry about it. You know if it weren't for Morpheus, I would have dumped you a long time ago."

Edited September 7, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

20 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

the purely Evil Queen will form a “delicious”plan to attack the heroes “with the style and grace you would expect” from the royal

They also mentioned the Evil Queen would be even more evil this season, but unless she goes around burning down multiple shops in Storybrooke while laughing in the face of scared children hiding in the corners, steals someone's heart and then sleeps with them, or doesn't care for Henry, then there's no way she's as evil as she once was. Most of her evil acts will probably be played for laughs anyways. 

[KingOfHearts]

I'm pretty sure the Evil Queen is going to take Regina's heart in retaliation for ripping out hers. Is she going to go around controlling her with it? Maybe not (we don't know if she's even capable of doing that to herself), but she might want to prevent Regina from experiencing real emotion.

[Curio]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

but she might want to prevent Regina from experiencing real emotion.

But we already know Regina feels things so deeply and she feels things with her whole soul, so even if her heart is taken she'll keep her emotions. (See Season 3B where Regina fell in love with Robin, gave Henry a True Love's kiss, and shot white magic out of her ass without a heart.) 

[Rumsy4]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

Emma and Aladdin filming (X).

Emma and aladdin seem to be dressed in similar colors. Rather on the nose, perhaps. I don't think I like those colors on JMo. 

[pezgirl7]

I think the colors on her are alright, but wow, I love that outfit! It's so cute! I thought at first these were rehearsal photos and the outfit was Jen's. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing Emma in sweaters and jeggings, so I hope this outfit is hers.

[Curio]

I'm kind of confused. There appear to be photos of Jen wearing the red flower dress with Aladdin, but also wearing a black dress with a black leather jacket. They seem like the same scene. Is one outfit Jen's and the other Emma's? Or two different scenes?

[pezgirl7]

5 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'm kind of confused. There appear to be photos of Jen wearing the red flower dress with Aladdin, but also wearing a black dress with a black leather jacket. They seem like the same scene. Is one outfit Jen's and the other Emma's? Or two different scenes?

Ahh bummer. I bet the red dress is Jen's then, and they were just rehearsing. Where are the photos of her wearing a black dress?

Edited September 7, 2016 by pezgirl7

[mjgchick]

Yeah I saw her looking cute in all black a few hours ago.

[ABitOFluff]

I'm seeing Tweets that the black dress was for rehearsals.

[Kktjones]

Apparently the black dress and leather jacket are rehearsal and the red dress, hoodie, gray coat are Emma. I'm liking Emma's wardrobe this season, but I'm not sure I understand the messy ponytail she's had in every ep (except one). It looks like she threw her hair up in a ponytail without even brushing it. Sorry, not to be shallow, but she has such beautiful hair, I'm not sure if there's a reason for it or not.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Kktjones

[KingOfHearts]

Emma has looked tired since 4B. I assumed it was because she was so stressed out, but it appears she still doesn't have the same "glow" she did before. 

[pezgirl7]

I couldn't disagree more with some of you. I think she looks very glowy. :) And I think her hair looks very nice, and neat, in the ponytail. I think I prefer it that way to be being down.

https://mobile.twitter.com/cresnotcresc/status/773634324964921344/photo/2

[RedKeep]

I like the hair as well, but I must be the only one who's really not feeling that outfit. I guess it's nice in that it's a change from what they usually pick for Emma and I like many of the elements seperately, like the dress, and the hoodie/coat ensemble, the boots are fantastic too, but the combination of all of them into one outfit looks rather... wild to me and almost more like the type of costume they'd put together for Belle - minus the hoodie, maybe.

Aladdin, like Jasmine, seems to have adapted to the Storybrooke/modern day style of clothing rather quickly. I approve of that. 

[mjgchick]

I thought they have been in Storybrook as part of the curse?

[KingOfHearts]

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I couldn't disagree more with some of you. I think she looks very glowy. :) And I think her hair looks very nice, and neat, in the ponytail. I think I prefer it that way to be being down.

She reminds me of Ingrid in that picture you shared.

[Curio]

I personally like the hair, but I also tend to throw my hair back like that a lot so maybe I'm biased. The red flower dress is an interesting detour as well as the hoodie. I feel like the only times we've seen Emma wear a hoodie is for her flashbacks. Have we seen her wear hoodies in Storybrooke before?

[KAOS Agent]

How sad are the spoilers when we're reduced to discussing which outfit is Jen's and which is Emma's? It's hard to drum up excitement about the season when there's nothing to even begin to speculate about.

[Curio]

13 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

It's hard to drum up excitement about the season when there's nothing to even begin to speculate about.

We can speculate about the sleepover games Zelena and Regina will giggle about. They can play a rousing game of truth or dare where they discover who has murdered more innocent people, compare their questionable sex adventures, learn about consent, and drink martinis over Robin's cradle.