Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Souris]

So these are the things that from spoilers have to be fit into this next ep:

Reuniting with Snow; Robin reuniting with Roland; angry Emma with OQ & Merida outside the town hall; something with Emma & Rumple; Zeus (probably present day & also in flashback with Hades); Zelena, Hades, Merida, Arthur and a baby at the troll bridge; Hook looking for the book's missing pages in the UW; something with Cruella and the blind witch; Emma & Zelena fighting; something with Hook & Arthur involving stunts; a confrontation between OQ & Zades, involving the Olympus Crystal; Robin dying; the funeral; Hook returning; and possibly the CS scene outside Granny's, though that may be early 5x22 instead.

Typical arc finale. It's like trying to cram a thousand clowns into a clown car.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Souris

[InsertWordHere]

That's why I'm really glad to looks like there will be minimal to no flashbacks.

I think the Arthur/Hook stunts are with Hook's dead body. What I want to know is when does Arthur steal Hook's body? Do they bury another body or do they get Hook's body back from Arthur first? I assume his actual body isn't buried because he returns in the clothes he died in. Unless of course he somehow gets a new body, but I really think the ambrosia is going to be found and it will fix his old body.

I am no Smee fan, but I am kind of disappointed that we won't get a Smee reaction to Hook's death. Since it's a non-lasting death, in an episode with an actual death, I can understand why they would have the Merry Men instead of Smee. 

[Watt]

I can't shake the feeling that we are missing something crucial. There's just something off about Robin dying.  I can't put my finger on it.

[YaddaYadda]

8 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

That's why I'm really glad to looks like there will be minimal to no flashbacks.

I think the Arthur/Hook stunts are with Hook's dead body. What I want to know is when does Arthur steal Hook's body? Do they bury another body or do they get Hook's body back from Arthur first? I assume his actual body isn't buried because he returns in the clothes he died in. Unless of course he somehow gets a new body, but I really think the ambrosia is going to be found and it will fix his old body.

Magical waters to restore it, perhaps?

I don't think the funeral for Hook is happening at the same time as Robin's. I think they are either separate, or Hook has been buried for a while. In which case, I don't even understand some of the decisions that were made, like why not preserve the body with a spell if they thought the mission would be a success? I'm thinking the heart split would have worked if they had done that.

They really half-assed that plan. I can't believe they thought they'd be gone for a day, and they decided they should help people move on on top of their original mission.

[RadioGirl27]

9 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

I think the Arthur/Hook stunts are with Hook's dead body. What I want to know is when does Arthur steal Hook's body? Do they bury another body or do they get Hook's body back from Arthur first? I assume his actual body isn't buried because he returns in the clothes he died in. Unless of course he somehow gets a new body, but I really think the ambrosia is going to be found and it will fix his old body.

Is there a real spoiler about this or is just some speculation? Because it's really gross and it makes no sense. Why would Arthur steal Hook's (rotting) body? Is he into necrophilia?

[Souris]

56 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Is there a real spoiler about this or is just some speculation? Because it's really gross and it makes no sense. Why would Arthur steal Hook's (rotting) body? Is he into necrophilia?

I'm now thinking it was speculation that in the way of fandom, turned into a spoiler.

[KingOfHearts]

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So these are the things that from spoilers have to be fit into this next ep:

That's a lot happening in one episode. The confrontation with Hades alone could sustain it. The trouble is, this time we're not wrapping up one arc - but two. So not only do we have to send off Underbrooke, but Camelot and Merida as well. The two-part finale looks like it needs a lot of setup too. So while 4x11 struggled with saying goodbye to Team Frozen while also concluding 4A and introducing 4B, 5x21 has even more on its plate.

[Rumsy4]

There's conflictign information on Hades' last appearance. It logically seems like 5.21 will see the end of Hades, one way or the other. But I remember some article indicating that we will see Hades in 5.22 as well. That doesn't make much sense to me. 

So, when is the infamous Team-Mom road trip happening? 5.22, or 5.23? I'm still unclear on the last two episodes. Which may be a good thing, actually.

[scenicbyway]

What I can't figure out is why they are even bothering to bring back Arthur and Merida.  Other than Violet and maybe her dad, there aren't any other Camelotians scheduled to appear right?  Camelot has been over since December, and Violet even before that, why bring her back now?  It makes no sense, Camelot hasn't even been mentioned in this arc.  They flubbed up when they didn't send them home in the midseason finale because they ran out of time.  Although, they sure could've done it instead of the now irrelevant Ruby/Merida/Mulan episode.

[KingOfHearts]

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So, when is the infamous Team-Mom road trip happening? 5.22, or 5.23? I'm still unclear on the last two episodes. Which may be a good thing, actually.

And we need a repeat of 4x19 because...? Swan Queen shippers need more pandering?
 

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What I can't figure out is why they are even bothering to bring back Arthur and Merida.  

It's odd for this show. Usually if characters don't get some sort of conclusion by the end of the arc, they're never seen again. It sounds like a response to backlash to me. (Even though it might not be.)

Quote

There's conflictign information on Hades' last appearance. It logically seems like 5.21 will see the end of Hades, one way or the other. But I remember some article indicating that we will see Hades in 5.22 as well. That doesn't make much sense to me. 

I'd say it's because of the episode number ordering, but if you don't count 5x09, that would make 5x20, which doesn't work. Hades doesn't seem to have any involvement in the Jeckyll/Hyde stuff, other than maybe being the catalyst. At least when Isaac stayed for the finale, we had more set reports of him being present. However, I seem to recall that some of them claimed to be scenes for earlier episodes than they ended up being.

Edited May 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

17 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

And we need a repeat of 4x19 because...? Swan Queen shippers need more pandering?

It's weird that the writers want three magical people (Emma, Regina, and Rumple) going after Henry to convince him to not get rid of magic. Why couldn't Emma and Snow have a road trip and have one representative from the non-magical community knock some sense into him? If you only have magical people pleading with you, then it just seems like they're selfish and want to keep their magic. But if Snow, David, or Hook could convince Henry, then that has a lot more weight.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

19 minutes ago, Curio said:

It's weird that the writers want three magical people (Emma, Regina, and Rumple) going after Henry to convince him to not get rid of magic. Why couldn't Emma and Snow have a road trip and have one representative from the non-magical community knock some sense into him? If you only have magical people pleading with you, then it just seems like they're selfish and want to keep their magic. But if Snow, David, or Hook could convince Henry, then that has a lot more weight.

That would probably have been better.

I just realized that Rumple's motives might not be entirely selfish in going to NYC and trying to find Henry.

If Belle is under the sleeping curse still, and Henry is intent on destroying magic, Belle would basically die. The reason he might be staying in NYC is a whole another ball game though.

Edited May 4, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Souris]

53 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

So, when is the infamous Team-Mom road trip happening? 5.22, or 5.23? I'm still unclear on the last two episodes. Which may be a good thing, actually.

It starts in 5x22 & they come back in 5x23. It seems to cover most of both eps. Blergh. We'll probably also get some of Snowing, Hook & Zelena wherever they end up.

[Mathius]

13 hours ago, Souris said:

So these are the things that from spoilers have to be fit into this next ep:

Reuniting with Snow; Robin reuniting with Roland; angry Emma with OQ & Merida outside the town hall; something with Emma & Rumple; Zeus (probably present day & also in flashback with Hades); Zelena, Hades, Merida, Arthur and a baby at the troll bridge; Hook looking for the book's missing pages in the UW; something with Cruella and the blind witch; Emma & Zelena fighting; something with Hook & Arthur involving stunts; a confrontation between OQ & Zades, involving the Olympus Crystal; Robin dying; the funeral; Hook returning; and possibly the CS scene outside Granny's, though that may be early 5x22 instead.

Typical arc finale. It's like trying to cram a thousand clowns into a clown car.

I don't think there is any flashback with Zeus and Hades, and a few of these things mentioned here wouldn't take long.

Plus, we have no idea about the funeral.  It may be they shot two at once: Hook's funeral for this episode, and Robin's for the next.

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Why couldn't Emma and Snow have a road trip and have one representative from the non-magical community knock some sense into him? 

You have to ask? Because the Emma/Snow relationship bores them and they avoid writing for it like the plague.

It's always Emma/Regina or Snow/Regina, but almost never Emma/Snow.  It's been that way since 3B and it ain't stopping anytime soon.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Mathius

[kili]

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If Belle is under the sleeping curse still, and Henry is intent on destroying magic, Belle would basically die. The reason he might be staying in NYC is a whole another ball game though.

Might not the sleeping curse just cease to work if magic is destroyed? There is nothing magically keeping her cursed. Zarian was able to defeat Ingrid's freezing curse by leaving the town (even if Zelena just faked that, people thought that would work). Cherna-whatever disappeared as soon as he left the town. And Rumple loses his Dark One's powers when he crosses the line because they are granted by a curse (while Emma retains hers because they are hers).

It might be worse if Belle  is still in the box and Pan's done something that prevents Rumple from opening it again. We've seen that magical devices like Pandora's box don't need magic to keep on working. The box worked outside of the town line and they left the town so that Pan's magic would not work (he does not have innate magic).

What if clever Pan did something to prevent Rumple from opening the box to release Belle. That would be consistent with his style of always planning ahead. The only person who could then open the box would be Henry (Neal was able to let Rumple out because of blood magic, so logically, Henry could too). So, Rumple heads off not just to prevent the destruction of magic, but also because he needs Henry to let Belle out.

Rumple gets left behind in New York because they steal his car. Emma totally knows how to do that and Rumple totally deserves it. Plus, Cruella can tell them that he is a terrible backseat driver and that Ursula told her that he tends to steal all the Ramen noodles.

[InsertWordHere]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't think the funeral for Hook is happening at the same time as Robin's. I think they are either separate, or Hook has been buried for a while.

I think it's likely he will be buried offscreen and the rainy funeral from the promo is for Robin. Normally, I would be upset by this, but it's not a real death and Robin's probably is, so maybe they don't want to waste (in the writers' minds) screentime on it.  

Then again, Emma does look really devastated in the promo, so maybe it is Hook's.

ETA: The Arthur and Hook's body stuff was mostly speculation, IIRC, but it makes sense to me if Hook shows up in his original body after he's supposedly been buried for a while. I doubt they're going to have a Buffy-style resurrection (which is still devastating to me and one of the worst things I have ever seen someone's friends do to a person). 

Edited May 4, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[Souris]

My guess is that the funeral is Robin's and Emma goes to visit Hook's grave afterward, hence her crying.

[KingOfHearts]

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Then again, Emma does look really devastated in the promo, so maybe it is Hook's.

If you look closely during the shot of Regina, there are mourners behind her. When Emma is seen, she's alone. I'm pretty sure she's alone at Hook's grave as the promo pictures depict. 

[Curio]

Hook was probably buried fairly quickly after his initial Dark One death. The scene of Emma being depressed and lying on her couch holding Liam's ring seems like it could have come after his funeral has already happened, which would explain why they didn't bother putting a protection spell on the body. At the time, The Underworld plot wasn't in the equation so no one figured he could be saved or suggested it as an option. So the scene where Emma is alone and crying at Hook's grave in Sunday's episode is probably earlier in the episode, and then Robin's funeral where everyone is present takes place during the final scene. By this time in the episode, Hook is already resurrected and can attend the funeral, which explains the set reports saying Colin was present for shooting that scene.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

7 minutes ago, kili said:

Might not the sleeping curse just cease to work if magic is destroyed? There is nothing magically keeping her cursed.

Regina managed to pull Henry under the Sleeping Curse when Storybrooke was still non-magical. So, Belle may end up flat-lining like Henry if she is still under the Sleeping Curse when Henry destroys magic.

[Serena]

Yeah, I think the episode will begin with Emma at Hook's grave and end with Robin's funeral. If the reason there's a quick scene of CS outside Granny's and then she goes inside is because she's looking for Regina after Robin just died, that would be the only way I can accept that. It's a 4A finale parallel, but this time Robin is dead and Regina was really supportive when Hook died, so she deserves support.

[KingOfHearts]

If Robin dies, it's just like what happened to Neal, but with even less impact. While Neal was bland and unlikable, his character had potential and at least a sliver of depth. He had a lot of meaning in the show because of his involvement. But since he got tossed to the wayside and A&E didn't want to deal with the fallout of his issues, he got killed off. Robin, however, is completely dead weight. He doesn't get positive viewer responses, he's uninteresting, and to elaborate on his characterization would be to give Regina (*gasp*) conflict. If you ask anyone who would be killed off, it would go to either him or Belle. 

I want to say it's sad that another character is getting killed off because of A&E's negligence, but there's really no use in having a boring, underutilized character taking up a spot for someone potentially more interesting. It frees up Regina to a possibly alternate happy ending or love interest, which I'm thankful for. We've been saying for a long time she deserves better. 

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The scene of Emma being depressed and lying on her couch holding Liam's ring seems like it could have come after his funeral has already happened, which would explain why they didn't bother putting a protection spell on the body.

I would think Emma would have noticed the dagger's presence by the time a funeral could be planned and held. I always assumed her couch scene was the next day.

Edited May 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I would think Emma would have noticed the dagger's presence by the time a funeral could be planned and held. I always assumed her couch scene was the next day.

I think it was next day. Emma was wearing the same clothes as when Hook died and she changed from Dark Swan.

[InsertWordHere]

I think the grave scene is after Robin's funeral, at the end of the episode. Emma is wearing her funeral clothes. 

Honestly, if they did show a funeral for Hook, it would probably just be sad music over an all cast shot of everyone looking sad. I think the solitary Emma scene at the grave will be more moving. It would be even better if Emma and Henry go to the Jolly Roger at some point earlier in the episode and discuss Hook.

[YaddaYadda]

28 minutes ago, kili said:

Might not the sleeping curse just cease to work if magic is destroyed? There is nothing magically keeping her cursed. Zarian was able to defeat Ingrid's freezing curse by leaving the town (even if Zelena just faked that, people thought that would work). Cherna-whatever disappeared as soon as he left the town. And Rumple loses his Dark One's powers when he crosses the line because they are granted by a curse (while Emma retains hers because they are hers).

I'm going by what happened in 1x22 with Henry when he was under the sleeping curse. He flatlined because there was no magic in Storybrooke, and his problem was not of this world.

[Serena]

Somehow, I feel like they'll bring Hook back before Robin dies.

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, Serena said:

Somehow, I feel like they'll bring Hook back before Robin dies.

I hope they do. Unless the writers want to drum up Regina's anger against Emma even more. Ugh...

One would think that since the storybook pages seem to be above-ground, it means Hook is back before the scene of the Hades-Zelena-OQ showdown. Zelena is holding the story pages in her hand in that scene.

[RadioGirl27]

1 hour ago, Mathius said:

I don't think there is any flashback with Zeus and Hades, and a few of these things mentioned here wouldn't take long.

I think there would be a quick flashback, probably at the beginning, to introduce Zeus and to explain why he cursed Hades and what the magical cristal do.

36 minutes ago, Serena said:

Somehow, I feel like they'll bring Hook back before Robin dies.

I hope so, but I don't trust the writers.

Edited May 4, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[InsertWordHere]

It would be my preference for Hook to show up alive either before or during the climactic battle. If he brings the pages and that helps turn the tide of the battle, I feel like that might alleviate some of the resentment that might be felt over him getting a second (third, fourth, whatever) chance at life while Robin doesn't. 

[sharky]

1 hour ago, Mathius said:

You have to ask? Because the Emma/Snow relationship bores them and they avoid writing for it like the plague.

It's always Emma/Regina or Snow/Regina, but almost never Emma/Snow.  It's been that way since 3B and it ain't stopping anytime soon.

I don't think that's really fair in this case because the writers may have considered it if Ginny Goodwin wasn't pregnant and needed time off. If anything, we should be thankful the writers found ways to write around Ginny's pregnancy instead of making it part of the story like they did with Emilie, because the Rumple baby story line is a hot mess. And frankly, I think the Emma/Regina match up is relevant in this case if they are going to find Henry. He is their son after all. It wouldn't make sense to put Snow in the car with Emma to find Henry and leave Regina behind.

Btw, for those who don't go in the Fandom thread, Sean's wife has gone so far as to make her Twitter banner photo a sign that says, "Save Robin Hood." I'm not sure I get it. I'm assuming she's spoiled Robin's death for people who didn't know about it OR there's a possibility that he may not totally die and can somehow come back? I doubt that second one though.

[kili]

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Sean's wife has gone so far as to make her Twitter banner photo a sign that says, "Save Robin Hood." I'm not sure I get it. I'm assuming she's spoiled Robin's death for people who didn't know about it OR there's a possibility that he may not totally die and can somehow come back?

I would have to think that anybody who follows Sean's wife is so far into the fandom, they've already heard the rumours and possibly what brand of socks Sean wears.

She can always argue that it is for those fans who think Rumple is still running around with Robin's heart. Because that story about how he was forced to take Robin's heart because Pan/Shadow might be watching, but then he put it right back is pretty weak. Why is he even telling Pan this story? Either Pan watched his every move or he didn't. If he did, he knows he put back the heart. If he didn't, why does he care about Rumple playing the Hokey-Pokey with Robin's heart?

If Rumple still has Robin's heart, I 100% won't call retcon. Rumple lying is just about a given. Lying to Pan just to screw him over some more? I'd expect it.

Maybe that is why Robin dies. If you get zapped by the Crystal of Olympus without your heart, you go directly into the Spring of Dissolving Souls. It's Magic! and A&E can make up whatever they like. Meanwhile, Zeus can save everybody else who got zapped. Tragic!  It is Rumple who flees Storybrooke first with Henry in hot pursuit.

Why would Rumple still have Robin's heart? If you grind up the heart of somebody with True Love and sprinkle it on your sleep cursed love one, it is just as good as a kiss from you. Tragic! And something Rumple would have no problem doing.

That said, Thanks Sean's wife for confirming Robin is dead. We were pretty sure, but now we know.

Edited May 4, 2016 by kili

[oliverwendell]

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"Somehow, I feel like they'll bring Hook back before Robin dies," said someone up above, and since I don't know how to use the new quote function properly, I have to use good old fashioned quotation marks.

I think so, too, and I also think that Hook's life will be swapped for Hades' by Zeus. It would be awkward if that life-for-a-life transaction were to go down while Robin were also dead, because then Emma would be making a definitive choice to save Hook and leave Robin in the UW. I don't think even these writers would go that far down the Regina-angst rabbit hole.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by oliverwendell
Quotation fail

[scenicbyway]

3 hours ago, Curio said:

Hook was probably buried fairly quickly after his initial Dark One death. The scene of Emma being depressed and lying on her couch holding Liam's ring seems like it could have come after his funeral has already happened, which would explain why they didn't bother putting a protection spell on the body. At the time, The Underworld plot wasn't in the equation so no one figured he could be saved or suggested it as an option. So the scene where Emma is alone and crying at Hook's grave in Sunday's episode is probably earlier in the episode, and then Robin's funeral where everyone is present takes place during the final scene. By this time in the episode, Hook is already resurrected and can attend the funeral, which explains the set reports saying Colin was present for shooting that scene.

But wasn't Emma laying on the couch with Hook's ring, literally just later that night after he'd died.  It seemed like they left the next evening for the Underworld.  The thing is, there could be funeral for Hook and we are just seeing Emma after the funeral has ended standing at his grave.  I think it's more likely that the funeral is Robin's and is at the end of the episode with the last scene being Emma visiting Hook's grave and perhaps him returning.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm trying to figure out how this will play out.

They have the missing pages from the Underworld, so either Hook figured out a way to get them to Emma, or someone else, or he has left the Underworld. And if he left the Underworld, it means that he had help for it, or figured out a way to get out without anyone's help. He seems to be more resourceful on his own. Once Emma and her family is gone, he doesn't have that worry anymore about something happening to them because they are there because of him, so he can put himself in danger all he wants without anyone stopping him.

Other option is Zeus shows up in the Underworld, and they go to Storybrooke together.

The one thing I really like is that Hook truly made Hades his unfinished business. I wonder if he won't get his life back once Hades is defeated instead of it happening right away.

[sharky]

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

They have the missing pages from the Underworld, so either Hook figured out a way to get them to Emma, or someone else, or he has left the Underworld. And if he left the Underworld, it means that he had help for it, or figured out a way to get out without anyone's help.

Are we sure the pages that Hook has are the same as the pages that Emma has? I keep thinking back to Henry leaving the book in plain view in the library and I wonder if Hook comes up on the elevator after everyone has left and finds those pages. Perhaps Henry as the author helps Hook finish his unfinished business with a story about defeating Hades to get out of the Underworld. I don't know -- I just find it a little too convenient that the storybook was left in plain sight in the library.

[scenicbyway]

1 minute ago, sharky said:

Are we sure the pages that Hook has are the same as the pages that Emma has? I keep thinking back to Henry leaving the book in plain view in the library and I wonder if Hook comes up on the elevator after everyone has left and finds those pages. Perhaps Henry as the author helps Hook finish his unfinished business with a story about defeating Hades to get out of the Underworld. I don't know -- I just find it a little too convenient that the storybook was left in plain sight in the library.

That would be really dumb if Henry wrote Hook's unfinished business and then leave it behind, but on this show, it's quite likely.  Henry will of course know how to defeat Hades, (Hook) and then he'll run away anyway.

Zeus has to be the only one who can bring Hook back though, because he has more power than Hades.  I wonder if Hook ends up with his own heart or Hades?

[kili]

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Zeus has to be the only one who can bring Hook back though, because he has more power than Hades.  I wonder if Hook ends up with his own heart or Hades?

We already had evil Hook this season and a cursed hand last season. Do we really want to find out what happens when you put an unreformed villain heart in your body? He's best off with his own heart. Hearts seem intrinsically linked to the owner because hearts can be shared between TLs. With Hades heart in him, he'll probably end up being in love with Zelena - and no thanks.

Is Hades still in control of the underworld or is it just the Underworld's own rules keeping one there? Maybe Hook doesn't have to defeat Hades, but do something worthy of his life saved (like freeing the Lost Souls or getting the Underworld to function as intended). Or Zeus saves his life so he can go defeat Hades in Storybrooke. Why Zeus wouldn't just stop Hades himself? Reasons (TM) !

[YaddaYadda]

32 minutes ago, sharky said:

Are we sure the pages that Hook has are the same as the pages that Emma has? I keep thinking back to Henry leaving the book in plain view in the library and I wonder if Hook comes up on the elevator after everyone has left and finds those pages. Perhaps Henry as the author helps Hook finish his unfinished business with a story about defeating Hades to get out of the Underworld. I don't know -- I just find it a little too convenient that the storybook was left in plain sight in the library.

But Hook is also still down below the library where Hades had his things, where he received the pages from the book after Liam tore them. If you look at the pages that Zelena has in the promo stills, you can see her picture in there, the one that Hades was looking at at the end of 5x15, so I think those are the original pages that Liam took out of the book. Plus it sort of goes a long way to redeem what Liam did.

I do think it's convenient that Henry left the book there, but maybe there's something about Killian putting the pages back in the book where they might appear in Henry's book in Storybrooke, and that's how they get the information they need.

28 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

Zeus has to be the only one who can bring Hook back though, because he has more power than Hades.  I wonder if Hook ends up with his own heart or Hades?

Please no. anything to do with Hook getting Hades' heart gives me the creeps. 

I think the difference between what's going to happen to Robin and the reason they might not be able to bring him back is because he will be killed by that Olympian Crystal. My understanding of what might be going on is that Crystal is powerful enough to kill a God, and if you can't bring back a God, you can't bring back a mortal.

[InsertWordHere]

In the promo, Hades says, "this isn't going to kill you, it's going to end you." If Robin gets hit with that crystal, he will be dead dead.

[oliverwendell]

Quote

 do think it's convenient that Henry left the book there, but maybe there's something about Killian putting the pages back in the book where they might appear in Henry's book in Storybrooke, and that's how they get the information they need.

That makes a certain wacky kind of sense. 

[Souris]

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they're just going to Zeus ex machina away every potential problem with Hook returning. Rotting corpse? Unhealable wound? Stopped heart? Zeus is a god -- he and the show can handwave ANYTHING away. He's the ultimate gauntlet.

[YaddaYadda]

12 minutes ago, Souris said:

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they're just going to Zeus ex machina away every potential problem with Hook returning. Rotting corpse? Unhealable wound? Stopped heart? Zeus is a god -- he and the show can handwave ANYTHING away. He's the ultimate gauntlet.

If you seen the 1st sneak peek, Zelena points out to Regina and Robin that Hades is not a man, he's a GOD! I'm thinking we're about to hit upside the head with that little fact.

[Rumsy4]

I'm thinking Zelena will continue to trust Hades until he threatens to harm Pistachio. Who knows if he has really given up on the Time-travel plan. 

[KingOfHearts]

I call that sneak peek "Stupid People Being Stupid". Zelena instantly trusting Hades and OQ acting antagonistic toward her as if it will help are both so contrived. Just a few days ago she was so hesitant about Hades then learned Regina has actually cared before. Now she has the lord of death babysitting her child and isn't having any of what her sister is saying. Script manipulation much?

If Regina told Zelena to take a chance with Hades, why would she be making it up that he's untrustworthy now?

Edited May 5, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Lieutenant]

That sneak peek was painful.  Poor Robin.  His girlfriend treats him like a child, he's not even allowed to show emotion over an extremely upsetting situation (one in which he has a legitimate vested interest), and he's pretty much been exiled to the woods for the entire arc.  If I were him, I'd probably happily volunteer to kick the bucket...*smh*  Ah, sanctimonious Regina.  How disappointing to have you back and "better" than ever.

[ParadoxLost]

2 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

In the promo, Hades says, "this isn't going to kill you, it's going to end you." If Robin gets hit with that crystal, he will be dead dead.

Do we know that the weapon is a crystal?  I've been assuming that the crystal weapon is actually permanently frozen water from the River of Lost Souls because in the last episode they stopped saying the soul would be tormented and started saying it would be disintegrated.

But yeah, if Robin dies that is how it happens.

[kili]

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 Poor Robin.  His girlfriend treats him like a child, he's not even allowed to show emotion over an extremely upsetting situation

Well, I have to give this one to Regina. Yelling at Zelena isn't going to help matters. They need her help so they need to get her on-side. Zelena is a victim of Hades as well, she just doesn't know it yet. And none of our heroes can claim they've never been taken in by a villain before.

As far as Zelena knows, she was taking the baby to the portal for safety reasons (Robin flatly refused to leave Regina), so she hasn't actually done anything wrong. She seemed genuinely happy to see Regina again. Zelena is trying to reform, so it kind of sucks she got taken in by somebody who just wants to use her (and likely her child). His opening of a portal to grab the baby still seems pretty sketchy.

I can totally understand why Robin is angry and frustrated, but it's not going to work with Zelena. Regina is taking the smarter approach. Smarter yet would be telling her exactly what actually happened and explaining what you fear. Make her part of the team.

[Rumsy4]

I'm not sure explaining why they think Hades is playing her would work. All they can tell her is that they think the Blind Witch got a spell from Hades and that he knew he had destroyed the Ambrosia when he sent Emma and Hook down the elevator. But they don't have any proof to show her. That's where the storybook pages will help, I guess. But even then, it doesn't seem like she's gonna believe right away.

[YaddaYadda]

Hades is definitely going to use the bad blood that exists/existed between Zelena and OQ to drive a wedge between them. Zelena sounded desperate to believe that she did change Hades. She's gonna try and cling to that. I'm sure she'll be the holder of the idiot ball this episode. Plus her showdown with Emma, I wonder if it doesn't have to do with those pages. 

They played promos tonight for the episode, and they are extremely baity. They made it look like it's Hook's funeral. In the two that I saw, they removed Regina completely from there, but closed with Emma's close-up crying. Someone who is unspoiled tuning in for Hook's funeral will get a shock.

[Rumsy4]

6 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Hades is definitely going to use the bad blood that exists/existed between Zelena and OQ to drive a wedge between them. Zelena sounded desperate to believe that she did change Hades. She's gonna try and cling to that. I'm sure she'll be the holder of the idiot ball this episode. Plus her showdown with Emma, I wonder if it doesn't have to do with those pages. 

It seems like Emma has those pages in her hand when she confronts Zelena, and Zelena takes them from her. I wonder why Emma's Light magic suddenly seems ineffective against Zelena.