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MarkHB

S05.E13: Chosen

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Everybody's getting a Trouble!

 

You get a Trouble and you get a Trouble and you get a Trouble!

 

(You'll have to pay hidden taxes, though.  Double Trouble!)

 

Honestly, after a rather dry first half season,  I was almost ready to give up on this show.  But the last two minutes reeled me right back in!

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Wow. Mom decided to mercy kill Mara and put her out of everyone's misery. Works for me. OK, mom termed it as rescuing Mara. I won't argue the semantics since I adored the outcome.

 

So did Mara dying cause Duke to explode, or did the Dynamic Due cause the problem since they went looking for Croatoan?

 

Oh well, everyone having a trouble is going to be all kinds of awesome. Maybe all Audrey will have to do it match up the powers, so nobody gets hurt. Sort of like a karmic cancellation.

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Another ridiculously stupid episode. I'm so disappointed, especially with the whole "I'll pretend to be CDC so I can seduce Dwight for all of 48 hours and then pretend my heart is broken when we move on to killing my daughter, replacing her with a completely different personality -- because that utterly different human being (who got personally destroyed a few seasons back) is *more* like my daughter than the bitter child who has a hissy fit because daddy didn't spend enough time with her at the beach".

 

I'd say words fail, but clearly from the previous paragraph (which is just a taste of my feelings) they haven't.

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Mara's master plan was to get Daddy back?  How does inflicting deadly and/or debilitating "troubles" on an innocent town accomplish that goal, exactly?

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I was glad to see that my faith in Charlotte's trying to make things better was not misplaced. Although the logic doesn't bear much scrutiny, at least we now have Audrey as the true person the entity is, not just some imposed template. In tribute, should she change her name to Maudrey?

 

But those Troubles look devastating. Can Charlotte do anything about them? Or will William Shatner's character hold the key?  I have a feeling he's Mara's dear old dad, lost from  the other universe and wreaking havoc in ours. What I gathered from the "did it out of love" and "gave up on Father" stuff, Mara somehow thought the Troubles would be a way to reclaim her father. I agree that this seems a strange method to do so. But then we don't know what happened to him.

Edited by Cardie
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I wonder if Nathan's/the Chief's ring has something to do with Dear Old Dad. It was a man's ring, right? And Charlotte kept saying everyone in the family had one. But no one brought up Nathan's ring after that revelation. I don't know that Charlotte knows he has it. I would think that Mara would have had the one ring, not a new one for each incarnation, so I don't think he got it from Lucy while Vince had the ring from Sarah. We saw the Chief as a child, so unless there's some kind of reincarnation thing going on, he isn't the father. Maybe the father got sent through to Haven and Mara came there looking for him, and the Chief was a descendant.

 

So did Mara dying cause Duke to explode, or did the Dynamic Due cause the problem since they went looking for Croatoan?

I think that was Mara's Dead Man's Switch, as she said. She lied about turning him off. So she pretty much deserved the death penalty several times over, given what seems to be coming next and what's already happened.

 

And wonder of wonders, Nathan finally saw sense and let Audrey make the decision to sacrifice herself without interfering this time. And it paid off! I was so sad for Audrey when Charlotte told her nobody was her mother, especially after our earlier discussion reminding us of her dream about her mother. But now she has her mother, since it seems she now is Charlotte's daughter.

 

So, they said "returning in 2015." Does that mean January, June, or September? Or maybe "when we get a prime-time timeslot open." I would think that they wouldn't bring in Shatner and then stick the show somewhere other than prime time.

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So, since Audrey's the dominant personality (aka the can of black paint), I assume she has ten toes, rather than nine?

At first I was going to say no, that Audrey had just moved back into and taken over Mara's body, but she did end up with Audrey's hair. On the other hand, it was the Audrey clothes that were left empty. Let's just say that she got Audrey's hair and toes and leave it at that until proven otherwise.

 

It looks like the Void is surrounding the town -- or has the town been transported to the Void? No one can leave town. (And what do you bet that the next thing keeping everyone in Storybrooke when the ice wall comes down will be a wall of black fog that sends everyone back into town? Seriously, people should avoid that part of Maine.)

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Relieved to see Mara gone at last & the last 5 minutes were interesting. Otherwise, I don't know how I feel about this episode. So much of the story doesn't make sense. I've felt this way about the past 2 seasons. If this is where they were planning on going from the very beginning I'm a) not impressed and b) baffled.

 

And William Shatner? I can never take that man seriously. I'm interested to see where they go with him, but I'm sort of dreading it at the same time. I'm not sure I can put this into words, but is his character suppose to funny or taken seriously? Because I cannot take William Shatner seriously ever. He sucks as a dramatic actor so I hope he isn't intregal to the mythic storyline. It strikes me as stunt casting. But I guess we will see.

 

I did like the cliffhanger they ended on.

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I can't remember what they were called, but does anyone else remember the little firework things that, when you lit them, created this long trail that looked like a big caterpillar made out of silvery ash?  Because that's what the Trouble-slugs looked like to me.

 

I'll give Shatner a chance.  Sure, he makes a lot more money doing self-parody than genuine acting these days, but I think his time on Boston Legal showed he had learned to tone it down from the days of Star Trek TOS.

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So I guess no Once Upon A Time fans here? That trouble storm rolled in just like a memory wiping spell on Once--except for the addition of flinging, stinging slugs.

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So, they said "returning in 2015." Does that mean January, June, or September? Or maybe "when we get a prime-time timeslot open." I would think that they wouldn't bring in Shatner and then stick the show somewhere other than prime time.

The show has never had a season premier earlier than July and the last three have started in September, so I'm going to guessing summer at the earliest, though most likely it will continue the trend and go in September. 

 

I can't remember what they were called, but does anyone else remember the little firework things that, when you lit them, created this long trail that looked like a big caterpillar made out of silvery ash? 

They're called snakes.

 

So I guess no Once Upon A Time fans here? That trouble storm rolled in just like a memory wiping spell on Once--except for the addition of flinging, stinging slugs.

Although I didn't think about it until now, it was very similar to the last weeks episode, of OUaT.

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That really didn't go as I expected - I was utterly convinced Duke would reveal his own 'long-con,' face-off with Mara and tell her the down-in-the-hold story about his mother had been entirely fictional, made up only to draw her in, that he had no real abandonment issues (or that he at least handles them just fine) and therefore, the hold she thought she had over him was non-existent, because that is the Duke character we have had in the past. I really thought that the power shift would be her downfall somehow, not a surprise mother who 'sees her pain' and simply sends her away/kills her for being bad. Really?

Having said that though...there were things to love - "Take off your shirt" - Yes, do that Duke. Often! Also, yes, okay...Nathan & Audrey together, having Audrey back (although what was the point of all the exposition of black & white paint etc if the show then just up-ends the whole pot...er, plot...? Not convincing or satisfactory IMO) and the thrilling idea that Duke is still a Trouble-bomb - all very good things. But generally, it felt as though the writers lost their way - didn't quite know what to do with the threads they've teased.

I have enjoyed the character stuff they have given us this season and the actors have all done a fantastic job in the challenge of the roles, but they have neglected some of the excitement of the show. By dividing the main characters for so long, replacing them with ones we don't even like much or 're-defining' them,  Haven lost some of its heart and a lot of its fun. Still love it of course but, considering the drama of the final scenes, this felt rather flat.

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So maybe Dave's vision wasn't a past event after all, and he was predicting the future.  The brothers Teague don't seem to have considered that possibility...or if they did, I missed it.  And I agree. Since Charlotte turns out to have been the "they" who shoved Mara in the barn, Daddy must be the "thing they should have been afraid of". Maybe he was a perfectly nice man who became unhinged somehow.  (That's the story they gave Mara.  She started out more like Audrey and the loss of Daddy sent her down the path to the dark side.)

Hurray for Nathan growth. I thought we were going to have a repeat of the season three finale, where he wouldn't let her go in the barn. I was gearing up to yell at the television and then didn't have to.

Question.  Where did Mara get all the aether she used to turn Duke into the trouble bomb?  I thought she only had that little bit she managed to steal from Nathan, and she used that to tweak the visible light trouble into the microwave one.  Duke had aether hand prints all over his torso.  I would assume those were put there during their sexy times but that happened before she was "kidnapped".  Wait.  That was after the aether was stolen, wasn't it?  Never mind.  I figured out the timeline. I was going to erase this whole paragraph, but I'll just leave it in.   Mara had Kirk steal the aether, then used it to make a Duke bomb.

 

The guy who saw how you were going to die when he touched you seems to have missed the mark.  He told Audrey she and her "twin sister" would die at the same time. Mara is gone and Audrey is still here.  Or I guess those visions are really open to interpretation. That 'copy' of Audrey died too, and now Audrey and Mara are combined into one whole person and those two incomplete people died at the same time. Shanna Marie, you may be right. Duke could die an old man, and the Guard tattoo reaching for him is on Nathan's arm as he reaches toward him, to comfort him. Or it's an accidental death as Nathan reaches for him and can't get there in time.

 

I really hope they don't wait until September to start the next "season"! It's only December. That's a hundred years from now! :(

Edited by anstar

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So I guess no Once Upon A Time fans here? That trouble storm rolled in just like a memory wiping spell on Once--except for the addition of flinging, stinging slugs.

It was a nod to the The Mist—another Stephen King callback like "thinnies."

Edited to add that Emily Rose's "Mara voice" was super annoying this episode. So much vocal fry!

Edited by editorgrrl
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So I guess no Once Upon A Time fans here? That trouble storm rolled in just like a memory wiping spell on Once--except for the addition of flinging, stinging slugs.

It was rather "Shattered Sight," wasn't it? Funny, the ending of this week's Once Upon a Time and this week's Haven were nearly identical, with the clouds coming in and then horrible stuff raining onto the town. In my head, Haven and Storybrooke are just down the road from each other.

 

That 'copy' of Audrey died too, and now Audrey and Mara are combined into one whole person and those two incomplete people died at the same time.

Now that they're combined, with the Audrey personality in the Mara body, when she dies, both will die at the same time. I just wonder how much of Mara is still in there. Does this Audrey now have the Mara memories from all the time she was in Haven, or is she basically back to the Audrey she was when she arrived in Haven? From the way Charlotte talked, Audrey reminded her of Original Recipe Mara, before she went nuts. Maybe that's why Audrey was the dominant personality all along -- the one she chose to be when given a choice, able to survive being submerged in Mara, the one brought out by the reincarnation Trouble. It was the personality most like the core of Mara's true self, the part of Mara that was in all the Haven Savers all along. If that's the case, then she might retain the parts of Mara that were always there while the bad parts were suppressed. I guess it would make it too easy if she knows too much, but since they seem to be wrapping up the series and since we have Charlotte here, and she knows so much, it's about time they started providing answers.

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The guy who saw how you were going to die when he touched you seems to have missed the mark.  He told Audrey she and her "twin sister" would die at the same time.

 

I think I said something about this before. I had thought of a scenario would Mara would "die", and be replaced/overlaid with Audrey, while the split off "real and normal" Audrey would "die" as well.  So technically speaking, they both "died" Now Audrey is the dominant entity personality, complete with her trouble immunity...

Edited by StarBrand
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Holy freakin moo, show. Really.

 

"Don't touch anything"

"Come on, Kenneth" (grabs arm)

*husband goes poof.*

 

I laughed so hard at that one. I do hope they find her kahlua loathing ass though.

 

Note: if you don't have to write a Trouble pertaining to anything else happening in the episode, then don't. Because while the exploding trouble was unintentionally hilarious and the other freaky as hell (I don't do enclosed spaces and water well) they were mostly filler.

 

Poor everyone in this episode.

 

Hey, it took everyone else 11 episodes and then some to get through to Mara, and Charlotte accomplished it in under three minutes. I'm not sure that if Mara ever comes back to haunt, she won't take it out on her mother for choosing her non twin over her.

 

Audrey lives. AWW. Nathan can feel her again. double AWW.

 

Loved Gloria stealing the booze.

 

I sure hope they can conjure up enough Troubles for those gazillion ones Duke let out.

 

I'm gonna go do stuff that's not damaging to my blood pressure now.

Edited by Elsinore

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Holy freakin moo, show. Really.

"Don't touch anything"

"Come on, Kenneth" (grabs arm)

*husband goes poof.*

I laughed so hard at that one. I do hope they find her kahlua loathing ass though.

You forgot the capper: An exasperated Duke yelling, "I told you not to touch anything!"

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I think I was having way too much glee with it to have heard it. This show has warped my mind.

 

That woman was such a winner, can't they just follow the trail of destruction to her cousin's house?

 

Another note: Laura Mennell, wonderful creature that she is, can not convince me that she's a mother to anything above a three year old.

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If only I were convinced that Audrey IS the dominant personality and that Charlotte is not an evil bitch.  But I'm not.  Not even remotely. Nope.  Not feeling it. 

 

Did love that Duke revealed his was conning Mara about taking her to the thinnie and Nathan believed him immediately.  That was some character growth on Nathan's part.

 

More shirtless Duke, please.

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More shirtless Duke, please.

This.

 

In fact, I suggest that the entire back 12 be nothing but Duke, Nathan, and the occasional Dwight and Gloria hanging out and drinking anything but kahlua, and occasional (except for Gloria, sorry Gloria) removing their shirts for no other reason than gratuitous fan service.

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Thanks, MarkHB, for giving me some hope. I never saw Shatner on Boston Legal so maybe he can/will act better than I'm expecting.

 

Roselle, good points on Duke. He's seemed off this entire season & somewhat of a minor character. Or I just didn't like what they gave his character.

 

This mother stuff sort of came out of nowhere for me. It is cool that it connects back to the start where Audrey was looking for her mother, but otherwise it seems like a completely different direction. What happened to true love Nathan/Audrey? Not that I'm complaining about that. I'm not a fan of that storyline at all, but I do mind having a plot element dropped and another shoved in seemingly out of nowhere. And what's this about Mara's father? I'd like some old issues resolved before dropping in yet another story.

 

We we still don't know much about Charlotte. How did she get Mara to be banished to the barn? How does she connect to the barn & Howard. Lots of unanswered questions. What are her powers?

 

Yeah, it does seem like the writers have lost their way. Or that the writers who originally conceived the story have bowed out & have not had any part in writing what we're seeing or have any say about what happens in the end. I'm looking at what we're seeing and wondering if the concept the original writers were so sold on that they created a show around is actually what's made it to our screen. I know the creators did drop out and moved on to something else, but have they abandoned the show entirely? Or will their original concept still be played out? And maybe that original concept is not as mindblowing as they thought it was. Cause I'm seeing a lot of lack of direction in the storyline.

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Loved Gloria stealing the booze.

What was with all the alcohol this episode? The aforementioned Grey Gull patron telling Duke to make his own Kahlua for better White Russians. Gloria absconding with a big box o' booze. And a "tell" for the difference between Mara & Audrey: the former likes bourbon. Why include that line if Mara's gone for good?

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I think booze is a prerequisite to keeping your sanity in Haven.

 

There's probably never enough to drown out all the weirdness anyway.

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Loved Gloria stealing the booze.

Uh oh, and now Duke's going to be staying in town.

 

I also loved her temper tantrum to get a sedative so she could deal with the crime scene. Yeah, it was a diversion, but I don't think she turned down the sedative.

 

What happened to true love Nathan/Audrey?

In what sense? I never really thought it had major plot implications, other than the possibility of maybe Nathan being able to reach whatever in Original Recipe transcended lives. But it does motivate the characters and it helped get things to this point -- her love for him being how Audrey was able to hang on in Mara (and not go through with killing him), his love for her motivating him and Duke to find a way to bring Audrey back, them actually being together and happy instead of thwarted probably having a lot to do with his willingness this time to let her do what she felt she needed to do, her love for him being part of what allowed her to be willing to make the sacrifice of being reunited with Mara. Their love isn't capital-P Plot, but events would have turned out very differently without it, so the "Love Will Keep Us Together" still means something.

 

I wonder if Charlotte was testing Audrey in the way she described the reuniting consequences. It sounded at the end like she'd always recognized Audrey as being like the Mara she remembered before she went nuts, so it seems like her plan all along was to "kill" Mara and let Audrey take over, but she made it seem to Audrey like Audrey was essentially sacrificing her very existence to save the town. Audrey being willing to do so meant she was worthy to be saved, and Charlotte seemed kind of proud and impressed in watching Audrey deal with the Trouble even without her powers. The fact that Audrey was willing to give herself up to save the town and try to save Mara while Mara was being so destructive meant that Audrey was the one who deserved to live.

 

Laura Mennell, wonderful creature that she is, can not convince me that she's a mother to anything above a three year old.

Eh, I watch Once Upon a Time, where the parents and the daughter are all the same age because of magic and played by actors whose ages are maybe a year apart at most, so that part doesn't bother me a bit.

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I'm kinda underwhelmed by the episode. It just didn't feel like a mid-season finale to me. And I thought getting rid of Mara was way to easy.

 

Poor Duke and Haven.

 

And Gloria is awesome!

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I finally caught up with the last 6 episodes. I didn't want to watch because I was bored by the previous ones. Binge watching them does seem to help. While I do agree Mara was taken care of too easily, it was time for her to go. From learning their ages, Mara was actually a child in the other world. Despite looking like an adult she was 100 when she was shoved down to let others take over her body. That at least explained why Mara acted like a child instead of an adult. 

 

I like the introduction of the mother. She can stay and help Audrey with the Troubles so she doesn't have to shoulder it all alone. That is if she is good and actually wants to help clean up her daughters mess.  The parent being the same age as the kid is now on three shows I watch, OUAT, Forever and this one. So I'm used to it.  

 

And Nathan, still willing to let the whole town burn just so he can have Audrey. I'll give them one thing, it's consistent. I also loved that Dwight brought that up a few episodes ago. Although I suppose they are made for each other if Mara and William made matching troubles. Nathan's selfish while Audrey's selfless. 

 

Then we have poor Duke that gets the short end of the stick all time. Yeah, he's selfish too but he at least was willing to sacrifice himself to save the town even if that meant Audrey didn't make it either. 

 

Dwight can go tell his WWE friend that his new girlfriend is 1100 years old. Maybe they can bond over both losing a daughter. 

 

Not sure how I fell about Shatner joining the show. He's probably the Dad but I'm still not that excited about him. Hopefully he can change my mind. 

Edited by Sakura12

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I know the creators did drop out and moved on to something else, but have they abandoned the show entirely?

 

They have written one of the scripts for the upcoming batch of episodes. I don't know if the new showrunners are following their blueprint, but they've remained creative consultants so don't seem to have abandoned Haven entirely. Shawn Piller is really the one consistent factor; he's an EP but not a writer.

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Yeah, it does seem like the writers have lost their way. Or that the writers who originally conceived the story have bowed out & have not had any part in writing what we're seeing or have any say about what happens in the end. I'm looking at what we're seeing and wondering if the concept the original writers were so sold on that they created a show around is actually what's made it to our screen. I know the creators did drop out and moved on to something else, but have they abandoned the show entirely?

The series was developed by Sam Ernst & Jim Dunn, who also produced the first three seasons.

They're rumored to be writing an upcoming episode.

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I believe Sam Ernst's name showed up as an Easter egg on a prop recently, but I can't remember what.

 

So far as the schedule goes, since they're actually billing this as a double-size Season 5, with some hints that it's because the cast's contracts would be up before a Season 6, I would expect it to show up earlier next year rather than later.

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Thank you, Shanna Marie. You're absolutely right. I think I missed it because they've dropped all the angst, if you know what I mean. Which I guess is needed anymore. :)

I was very surprised that Nathan agreed finally with Audrey about her merging with Mara & didn't give her a hard time over it. A nice change, respecting her choices.

 

Also, good point on Charlotte's choice of Audrey vs. Mara.

 

Thanks, Cardie, on the info re: creators/writers. Also, editorgrrl. Glad that Ernst & Dunn will be back.

 

Thanks, MarkHB. I'm hoping for sometime in January.

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I laughed so hard at that one. I do hope they find her kahlua loathing ass though.

 

That may have been excessive, but I'm not gonna pretend I've never wished a horrific fate on an obnoxious customer.

 

So maybe Dave's vision wasn't a past event after all, and he was predicting the future.

 

 

In the case of this particular vision, at least, I think he was seeing the present.

 

I have enjoyed the character stuff they have given us this season and the actors have all done a fantastic job in the challenge of the roles, but they have neglected some of the excitement of the show. By dividing the main characters for so long, replacing them with ones we don't even like much or 're-defining' them,  Haven lost some of its heart and a lot of its fun. Still love it of course but, considering the drama of the final scenes, this felt rather flat.

 

 

This is a good summing-up of how I feel, too, I think. I've liked the overall plot of this season intellectually, but it's not hitting me emotionally the way it should.

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...I've liked the overall plot of this season intellectually, but it's not hitting me emotionally the way it should.

Me too--maybe it's all the body swapping and personality morphing; it makes it hard to identify with the characters.

I laughed so hard at that one. I do hope they find her kahlua loathing ass though.

That may have been excessive, but I'm not gonna pretend I've never wished a horrific fate on an obnoxious customer.
It didn't occur to me that this was supposed to be funny until I read it here, but then I don't even find slipping on a banana peel humorous because I worry that someone is hurt. And I've never wished a difficult customer would have a terrible fate--I prefer to pat myself on the back after turning them into apologetic, grateful customers. But evil boss? Heh. Bring on the exploding trouble for the evil bosses! I would even like it if the boss made me explode so the boss could finally see what her anger at her employees looks like. And that wife was the bossy type, so maybe her hubby had wished the same.

By the way, I wouldn't describe the troubled lady's husband as going "poof." It was more of an inside out "splat."

Edited by shapeshifter

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It was totally a poof.

 

I'm sure Gloria looked at that bloodied pillar, schrugged and then stole the booze because that's what she came for anyway.

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I liked Duke going off as a trouble bomb but didn't get any satisfaction with Mara's end. I really wanted her to get a debilitating trouble or  be shoved back in to Audrey prison. Death was a gift for her. And what was up with her mom killing her and choosing a better model. It is Mara's mom after all, I shouldn't be surprised by the crazy. Still lmao at Dwight. He felt good about not being a part of the I love Audrey club, but ends up getting with her quasi mom.

 

I'm a naudrey shipper, but probably the only one that didn't love their scenes. They were ok.They were well acted, I'm probably still bitter because I wanted a little more from the Nathan can't feel Audrey stuff in 5A.

 

I never was able to get on board with the Mara emotional manipulation of Duke thing. I'm just kinda going along with it  because I love the show. I wonder what it is in my perception of Duke that makes me not buy it. I would have preferred that she just outmaneuvered him without all the traumatic emotional stuff.

 

A highlight for me this season besides Gloria's awesomeness, were her scenes with Duke and Nathan. It brought interesting dynamic to the season.  I really missed Duke and Audrey scenes this season.

 

I'm still love this show. I'm excited for 2B because I know I'll be getting some specific things I've wanted and the story looks promising.

Edited by icandigit

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And what was up with her mom killing her and choosing a better model.

 

I think the deal was very much like that Star Trek episode when Kirk split into good and evil parts, essentially all superego and all id. (They can all ask Shatner about it when he appears :)) Although in that case it was possible to retain both with the two combining into a healthy ego, here the split had grown so wide that only one half could survive. But both were part of the original person called Mara. Mom simply chose the part that dominated before the Daddy trauma led her to Haven and the Troubles.

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I enjoyed the episode even though it

a) didn't make much sense

b) continued the assassination of Duke's character and

c) killed off Mara without at any point giving us her motivations for creating the Troubles.

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I don't think it was about choosing the better model, I think it was about choosing the less dangerous model. So far it looks like Audrey's mom has a savior complex like her. Only she's a little more detached being a 1100 years old. I also think "Charlotte" is a scientist on the other world as well, she knows a lot about it. I look forward to seeing her hopefully help Audrey so she doesn't have to do everything alone. But being a female other than Audrey on this show is never a good thing. 

 

As for Mara, Mom said she was doing it for love. They made sure to say they lost the father, not that he was dead and Mara said she was bringing her father back.

 

Mara said Charlotte was always afraid of the aether (which makes her smart). I'm guessing Daddy went into the void to get the aether and started playing around with it, then never came back. Mara being young in that world at 100 and filled with grief went into the void to find her father, then met William and started playing around with it like her father did. Maybe she thinks he's in Haven and troubling people would draw him out? 

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I'm still behind three episodes but I wanted to agree that this:

Binge watching them does seem to help. 

is definitely the way to go. And even though this:

I enjoyed the episode even though it

a) didn't make much sense

b) continued the assassination of Duke's character and

c) killed off Mara without at any point giving us her motivations for creating the Troubles.

doesn't necessarily make me breathless with anticipation to watch, this:

More shirtless Duke, please.

guarantees that I will. Play to your strengths, Show, play to your strengths.

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Being bored and snowed in I just rewatched this ep On Demand & re-read this whole thread. Someone mentioned the rings, "all our family has them." Didn't Nathan have a ring before he got his father's? I'm guessing Garland's ring was his wife's? And is the ring that Vince gave Audrey, is that the same kind of ring? I hope we find out the significance of these rings. And I'd love to see Garland come back somehow. I still miss him. I'm thinking that they still have those pieces of him in that cooler. It would nice to see that loose thread picked up again & tied off.

Edited by kat165

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Didn't Nathan have a ring before he got his father's?

I don't recall one. The only ring I remember Nathan having is the one he pulled out of the box of rubble and then started wearing around his neck. Garland didn't wear a ring on his hand, and I believe when Nathan found it, it was already on a chain, so Garland must have been wearing it around his neck. The ring Vince gave Audrey was supposedly from Sarah, and it was identical to the one Charlotte had, since Audrey pulled it out to compare. Then she referred to Nathan's ring, so it sounds like all three of them are the same. But we don't know if Garland got his from Lucy, if it was handed down in the family, or what. Charlotte didn't seem at all alarmed about Nathan and Audrey being together, and in fact encouraged Audrey to be with her "cute boyfriend," so I would think that means they're either not related at all (and Nathan's ring comes from another source) or so distantly related as to no longer count as related -- like maybe descended from someone else in the family who came over at the same time as Mara but who then aged normally while living in our world. But since the ring was from the Chief, it could mean the Chief was the one related, and Nathan isn't biologically related to the Chief.

 

I do want to see the Chief back. They seemed to have left it pretty open in making reference to the idea that he could be brought back, so it would be nice if they fired that gun.

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